Author Topic: PWE Axes staff  (Read 5843 times)

Eoraptor

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blackjak

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Re: PWE Axes staff
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2015, 07:16:20 PM »
Sad day for STO. The Romulan arcs were the best they've had in a long time. At least he can say he was there when they put up the statue for Nimoy. Definitely a loss for the game as well as his wallet.
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Re: PWE Axes staff
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2015, 07:28:45 PM »
I'm sure Matt will land on his feet. The guy is a wizard.
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Joshex

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Re: PWE Axes staff
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2015, 08:16:14 PM »
seriously that is tough, it's a sign the MMO market needs some key changes to stay profitable. firing staff is the way businesses respond to lack of sales, shame they don't inform developers of the issue before hand, then they might actually fix the system and generate growth.

whats wrong with the MMO market profit system? to big a list of relevant things to list in one post here without seeming rant-ish.
There is always another way. But it might not work exactly like you may desire.

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Angel Phoenix77

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Re: PWE Axes staff
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2015, 08:19:15 PM »
Honestly this is a surprise, I would not be surprised if it was from Champions Online, but from STO the poster child of cryptic/pwe. I hope Posi gets picked up by a good dev. house like Funcom or by one of the spiritual successor projects. :)
« Last Edit: March 18, 2015, 02:24:39 AM by Angel Phoenix77 »
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Kaos Arcanna

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Re: PWE Axes staff
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2015, 09:07:48 PM »
I was surprised that people from NW and STO were let go and CO was left untouched, but then it occurred to me that the CO team is probably about lean as they can get and still call it having a team of Devs.

It might be ironic if CO was the last game standing simply because the other two wound up not making enough to justify the license.

Eoraptor

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Re: PWE Axes staff
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2015, 01:16:02 AM »
seriously that is tough, it's a sign the MMO market needs some key changes to stay profitable. firing staff is the way businesses respond to lack of sales, shame they don't inform developers of the issue before hand, then they might actually fix the system and generate growth.

whats wrong with the MMO market profit system? to big a list of relevant things to list in one post here without seeming rant-ish.
The problem is the same problem with pretty much everything else in the current economy... all the money flows to the top with no stops in the middle for reinvestment, and if the money flow slows down, obviously there are too many people in the middle keeping it flowing to the suits at the top and the stockholders. so cut out those people.

meanwhile... maybe mister miller can get on at one of the successor projects if his NDA with NCSoft is over? 8)
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Joshex

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Re: PWE Axes staff
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2015, 02:38:20 AM »
The problem is the same problem with pretty much everything else in the current economy... all the money flows to the top with no stops in the middle for reinvestment, and if the money flow slows down, obviously there are too many people in the middle keeping it flowing to the suits at the top and the stockholders. so cut out those people.

meanwhile... maybe mister miller can get on at one of the successor projects if his NDA with NCSoft is over? 8)

I wish I could hire him lol, but I have no finances to do so, congrats to whoever does get that privilege.
There is always another way. But it might not work exactly like you may desire.

A wise old rabbit once told me "Never give-up!, Trust your instincts!" granted the advice at the time led me on a tripped-out voyage out of an asteroid belt, but hey it was more impressive than a bunch of rocks and space monkies.

Cailyn Alaynn

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Re: PWE Axes staff
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2015, 04:07:11 AM »
I wish I had the resources to hire him. I'd do it in a heartbeat!
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blackjak

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Re: PWE Axes staff
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2015, 12:51:17 PM »
seriously that is tough, it's a sign the MMO market needs some key changes to stay profitable. firing staff is the way businesses respond to lack of sales, shame they don't inform developers of the issue before hand, then they might actually fix the system and generate growth.

whats wrong with the MMO market profit system? to big a list of relevant things to list in one post here without seeming rant-ish.

Maybe it's the fact that Cryptic continues to be owned by Asian game developers and makes western style games that do not do well in Asia. All entertainment kinda works this way though. Just think of the music industries move from huge mega music studios bleeding creativity and artists money away to independent, smaller studios ran by the artists themselves. It's always a risk when an industry gets too big too fast with businessmen getting the payoff instead of the creatives and the people who consume the product. Things get homogenized to make the most profit and truly interesting things that marginalize profit get cut away until you are left with a shell of what was once great. Asia is just learning this lesson. We have seen it in the entertainment industry already with music, movies, cable TV and even telephone companies. Their lesson will be the same as ours, but we will feel it because everything is much more international now.
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Ironwolf

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Re: PWE Axes staff
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2015, 03:45:15 PM »
What is happening across the board is in many countries they are no longer manufacturing anything - including programming and games. They don't retain the skills to create.

In Michigan we used to have hundreds of mom and pop small machine shops. They would have a few lathes and presses and make stuff for auto companies and other businesses. Then they moved the auto industry away from a single source (Michigan) and now the creation and building is done in other countries where labor is cheap.

This means the entire framework for creation and invention is sadly lacking in all but a few places now. Look at cars they say are - Built in America:

http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/best-cars-blog/2013/03/Buying_American_Could_Mean_Buying_Foreign/

Eoraptor

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Re: PWE Axes staff
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2015, 04:36:56 PM »
What is happening across the board is in many countries they are no longer manufacturing anything - including programming and games. They don't retain the skills to create.

In Michigan we used to have hundreds of mom and pop small machine shops. They would have a few lathes and presses and make stuff for auto companies and other businesses. Then they moved the auto industry away from a single source (Michigan) and now the creation and building is done in other countries where labor is cheap.

This means the entire framework for creation and invention is sadly lacking in all but a few places now. Look at cars they say are - Built in America:

http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/best-cars-blog/2013/03/Buying_American_Could_Mean_Buying_Foreign/
The "de-Americanization of industry" has nothing to do with this. Programming requires no special tools or skills like your lathes or stamp presses, and more importantly creativity is not some magical resource that can be dug out of the ground, or only found in certain populations. The problem here is a lack of appreciation of skills and talent. People like Positron on the coding side, and CaptainSmirk on the PR side, have the skills to make a project a success or failure regardless of their physical location. But corporations like PWE and NCSoft and Blizard and Nexeon, and even many of your mom'n'pops, don't want to pay for that and expect it to be given freely or at wildly reduced rates. I can't even begin to count the number of times creative friends of mine have gone looking for paying work; be it writing, painting, coding, etc, and were told by oh so many people "you should just give me your work, it will be exposure for you!" or were expected to work at slave-labour wages, again because their work somehow provided this magical exposure as a benefit.

The problem is, as Blackjak points out, that the creatives and the consumers are largely cut out of the value side of the the process. Those of us who were happy with City of Heroes only turning "a little" profit, no matter where we live, be it Korea or Germany or the US or Mars, were ignored, shouted down, and lied to, by the people who own the property.
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houtex

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Re: PWE Axes staff
« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2015, 05:22:52 PM »
As a person who was a programmer (and sometimes still does a little bit of it), this statement:

Quote
Programming requires no special tools or skills like your lathes or stamp presses...

Is insulting.  For you've, in my mind, likenend it to a bunch of hamsters on keyboards.  Hamsters don't have special tools or skills. 

Your entire post is therefore somewhat invalidated because it's obvious you don't know what you're talking about.

Aggelakis

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Re: PWE Axes staff
« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2015, 05:24:46 PM »
Programming requires no special tools or skills ...
You are wrong.
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Relitner

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Re: PWE Axes staff
« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2015, 05:45:42 PM »
Programming requires no special tools or skills...
I am unsure how you arrived at this conclusion. However...

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Codewalker

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Re: PWE Axes staff
« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2015, 05:57:48 PM »
Well, technically that's true...

On the other hand, fixing all the bloated, buggy, and terrible code that the overseas contractors threw together to meet the bare minimum project requirements... that requires special tools and skills.

Ironwolf

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Re: PWE Axes staff
« Reply #16 on: March 18, 2015, 07:05:57 PM »
I will stand by what I said earlier - in much of America and Europe the service industries are growing and the creative and people who enjoy making things are getting less and less in demand as things are shipped out for cheap labor.

It is in many cases the huge regulatory nightmare that is the EPA or other government agencies adding layers of nonsense on top of everything. I think programmers, graphic artists, photographers and basically any creative person is a valuable commodity. It used to be called Yankee Know-how. I won't limit it to just America however as Canada and Europe are in similar straights. Australia appears to be trying to right their ship but look at where the manufacturing is being done now - do a little research.

Joshex

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Re: PWE Axes staff
« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2015, 08:05:32 PM »
My dad owns a toolshop in america, runs it out of our garage, it's companies he gets jobs from that are getting finicky, I keep telling him to get them to sign a contract or to send them an invoice before he does any work for them, he doesn't listen and ends up with companies telling him they don't need the parts anyways. he still gets a few jobs that do pay but not as many as he could.

Back onto games, yeah, it's the whole capitalist thing, a 'capitalist' is a person who uses money to buy labor, the labor creates the profits and the capitalist typically pays them their individual profit excluding the surplus.

if a person works for themselves they get the surplus as well as general profits, if you work for a capitalist, they in effect steal the surplus that you earned.

This is all coming to another video-game crash not too far from now.

when videogames first started as a commercial product they were made by individuals, some of these individuals failed, others succeeded and have now become capitalists, these capitalists encountered and defeated one video-game crash already and believe that corporate game design is what caused them to defeat it. the ability of a corporation to limit individuals from publishing games is said to streamline quality. in the early days quality was as easy as "does it work?" now days however it's obvious that 'videogame quality' is becoming increasingly more elaborate and dependent entirely on the ideas behind the game.

When challenged with this new problem companies abandoned the old design system where executives and directors came up with the designs and the employees made them, to a new system called the 'agile process' where the executives and directors barely do anything and the video game team comes up with ideas and throws them together into one big melting pot and then slowly makes each idea into fruition. They claim this system maximizes 'quality' to the most of it's possible potential.

What they fail to realize however is that many different people have many different ideas and NO SINGLE video-game team will ever come up with ALL POSSIBLE IDEAS, what that boils down to is the phrase that videogame companies should live by "It can always be done better". instead the agile process spawns  a 'lock-out' system to people with potentially better ideas, and produces certain assurances and favoritism to the development team who then assume their ideas are the best possible quality ideas, from where game-play is subtracted for the sake of weird dreams and crazy ideas that the team had, and of course the favoritism on their behalf spawns a tendency to be lazy.

the outcome? game-play quality declines, the executives loose money but stick up for it anyways, cause it would be shameful to admit they placed favoritism on these teams that failed so epically. So what happens after that? nothing, the execs stick up for their team until they have no finances to safely run those projects anymore, then; Sunset and Pink-slips.

obviously there are good developers who are more than pulling their own weight, like Posi, thing is the corporate mind acts indiscriminately in many cases, they view the team as one whole entity, the weak links sabotage the entire thing.

So whats my prediction for the future? At Home Indie Developers will lead the industry and in many ways already are. However, there is still a lot of favoritism even amongst these indie developers, that will be weeded out. and many indies are making the mistake of taking on a corporate system for their business structure.

Right now there is very little support for indie Devs save the public themselves, there are stiff barricades set up to deter indie developers from A: getting any experience, and B: starting up their own game title to be published for anything other than Computer.

it's an uphill battle through companies that are dangling on strings while avoiding the companies that are falling, I use this metaphor in more ways than 1. companies that make stupid ideas and fail epically may use part of your idea, thus making your idea look bad even though it's a different entity and may function better. So it's imperative for indie devs to keep an eye on what current games are doing, recognize disasters and avoid looking like them.

Honestly it's more like escaping from Ganon's tower or planet zebes before the explosion, bits and pieces that are large companies or parts of them are falling everywhere, yes, the tower/zebes will eventually be completely destroyed (all those businesses will fall to ruin) other developers need to work hard to get out of there before the fall or at least be able to climb out of the ashes. Yeah a few corporate Gannons will survive and learn from the heroes "how to pick themselves up" according to new models, but they will reject parts of new models that don't suit their corporate high profit agendas and will ultimately be defeated by the heroes.

Sealed away, until their next evil corporate money grubbing ways find some way to get back into things. a sad cycle.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2015, 09:48:33 PM by Joshex »
There is always another way. But it might not work exactly like you may desire.

A wise old rabbit once told me "Never give-up!, Trust your instincts!" granted the advice at the time led me on a tripped-out voyage out of an asteroid belt, but hey it was more impressive than a bunch of rocks and space monkies.

hurple

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Re: PWE Axes staff
« Reply #18 on: March 19, 2015, 08:53:33 PM »
I can't even begin to count the number of times creative friends of mine have gone looking for paying work; be it writing, painting, coding, etc, and were told by oh so many people "you should just give me your work, it will be exposure for you!" or were expected to work at slave-labour wages, again because their work somehow provided this magical exposure as a benefit.


While, like others, I take umbrage with saying programming takes no special skills or tools, this statement is absolutely, spot-on true!  But, it's not completely a new phenomenon.  This is why I am programming now, instead of pursuing my artistic inclinations.  I could get paid for programming.  But, I am a FAR better "artist" than programmer. 

So, that can lead to the argument... Is programming a science or an art?

Joshex

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Re: PWE Axes staff
« Reply #19 on: March 19, 2015, 10:25:35 PM »
it has been stressed enough that programming definitely has tools and definitely has a skill-set, we are all friends here, I know it offended some people (for some reason I wasn't offended), the commenter has been educated on the subject, I believe that is enough, we should let it rest.

forgive and forget and all.

Part of the meaning of life is the pursuit of knowledge outside our initial opinion or understanding.

I don't mean to sound like a self-bloated private area, I just hate to see people mocked for small mistakes, especially of the slip of the tongue/fingers, we've all been there, do unto others as you'd want done unto yourself eh?
There is always another way. But it might not work exactly like you may desire.

A wise old rabbit once told me "Never give-up!, Trust your instincts!" granted the advice at the time led me on a tripped-out voyage out of an asteroid belt, but hey it was more impressive than a bunch of rocks and space monkies.