Author Topic: Building the World - Titan City  (Read 10511 times)

downix

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Re: Building the World - Phoenix City
« Reply #40 on: September 11, 2012, 10:57:17 pm »
I just want to say that this is amazing what you want to do here, and when I see that I can help in any form then I'm with you. I don't have much talent and my english isn't the best, but maybe I can help in some form anyway. Some part inside of me wants that City of Heroes will not be saved just to see that this project will become true.

I see that all around the city are hills, but you have to think about it that maybe one day is the time when you want to bring new zones for the game and then you need a place where you can expand. This can be hard to find a good reason why the hill disappeared so suddenly. Of course you can make new isles, or moonbases (Hell, moonbases, just everyone want's them :D ), but the city is fixed at this size then and can't expand...
Tunnel through the hills to the land just on the other side.

Golden Girl

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Re: Building the World - Phoenix City
« Reply #41 on: September 11, 2012, 11:00:48 pm »
I just want to say that this is amazing what you want to do here, and when I see that I can help in any form then I'm with you. I don't have much talent and my english isn't the best, but maybe I can help in some form anyway.

Anyone would be able to help with this, even if it was just giving opinios and feedback.

Quote
I see that all around the city are hills, but you have to think about it that maybe one day is the time when you want to bring new zones for the game and then you need a place where you can expand. This can be hard to find a good reason why the hill disappeared so suddenly. Of course you can make new isles, or moonbases (Hell, moonbases, just everyone want's them :D ), but the city is fixed at this size then and can't expand...

The idea would be that the city wouldn't need to expand - in the same way that new city zones haven't really been added to paragon City in the past 8 years - the world is expanded, but not the main city.
This city map is the complete city, with a bit of surrounding countryside - there's a spaceport on the bay island, and inter-dimensional portals can be located on the same island, or in the science and tech district - and a submarine somewhere along the waterfront - that opens up space, other dimensions and an underwater zone.
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Golden Girl

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Re: Building the World - Phoenix City
« Reply #42 on: September 11, 2012, 11:01:41 pm »
Tunnel through the hills to the land just on the other side.

Either follow the railroad and highways out of th city, or peerhaps just use the central station in the administration district.
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Re: Building the World - Phoenix City
« Reply #43 on: September 11, 2012, 11:23:55 pm »
*big thumbs up!*

I reshaped the headland and southern coast line, marked the ridge, and added the settlement area.
As the headland is quite high, along with the ridge, the settlement would probably be built on a pretty steep slope leading down to the sea.

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Felderburg

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Re: Building the World - Phoenix City
« Reply #44 on: September 11, 2012, 11:32:52 pm »
I think expansion of the city is an important point. Yes, it is a game, but how realistic do we want it to be?* We can look at trends in real world major cities, like suburbanization, and model the new city after that. Or, we can make the city fit the gameplay however we need it to, realistic city planning be darned.

I think the best way to plan the city is to figure out what the initial land looked like, then build a city through time based on the land and what forces we decide helped shape the city (the initial colonists, wars, disasters, etc.). Eventually, whatever the current city looks like should reflect or at least appear to reflect a rich and realistic history of a city in constant change and development.


*Realistic enough that we bring in professional city planners is definitely the way to go. For reals.
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Scott Jackson

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Re: Building the World - Phoenix City
« Reply #45 on: September 12, 2012, 01:28:45 pm »
If such expansion is needed, the city could extend either west-northwest or south-southwest with minimal need for redesign.  Extremely large modern cities are almost never formed by a single city growing outward - rather, a large city that stretches out tendrils along natural routes toward nearby lesser cities (that we can imagine are just beyond the hills), and eventually merges with them.  Provide a few interesting valleys or canyons in the line of hills, and we'll have an easy way to expand if desired.  Line of sight to the horizon can still be obscured with that way

However, I think the real expansion will be through the outbound connections offered by the airport, spaceport, and Z-brand Portal Corp.  Once we have our main city built, sure, we could add more US city zones...but as priorities go, I think it would be more compelling to our diverse (and hopefully growing) playerbase to add culturally distinct cities from other continents with totally new storylines, alien planets, and alternate timelines with postapocalyptic or seemingly utopian themes.


For those of you who are more graphically-oriented and have a library of architectural photos or screencaps from other games...I encourage you to begin sorting them and connecting them with the city regions.  Region naming is important, and so is the early stage artwork that starts to connect a region's current purpose with its history and makes each region instantly recognizable.

Also consider landmark structures or geologic features that can make the city layout easy to navigate while supporting the battles between us and the NPC factions, and inspiring great stories.
For example -
A huge multistory shopping mall in the normal suburbs, built to cover up a toxic waste disaster, and a property developer who seems strangely interested in human souls...
A safe and shiny theme park for the waterfront or renovated dockside district, and a creepy desolate version elsewhere that failed years ago for reasons never fully understood...
A small patch of urban renewal in the slum suburbs, centered around a small wooded park where winter never comes, and where no one can agree on exactly what paths lead inward or outward...
A pair of equally outrageous skyscrapers built to match the egos of two rival corporations, next door neighbors with polished facades, but when night falls, sub-sub basements and mechanical rooms become the battleground where ninja-attorneys and robo-janitors fight alongside well-armed middle managers to eliminate the competition...

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Re: Building the World - Phoenix City
« Reply #46 on: September 12, 2012, 02:58:56 pm »
Researching architecture for each neighborhood will help establish the look and feels. Also, what would zoning laws be? What types of businesses will be in each neighborhood? Are there limits on how many floors (i.e. max 7)? What type of fast food chains and convenience stores will you find and where and what is their saturation?

Felderburg

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Re: Building the World - Phoenix City
« Reply #47 on: September 12, 2012, 04:54:23 pm »
Another thing to consider is highways and railyards. Railways are going to be present, going in and around the city, for commerce as well as commuters. The trains need a place to go for maintenance and during off hours - many cities now have giant railyards with rusty, grafitti'd trains sitting around.

Depending on the history, highways will likely be a big thing (depending on the history because maybe a cool transportation method was invented that eliminated the need for them). Assuming they're there, they'll be significant landmarks in whatever areas they go through. Heck, in CoH a whole zone was named after their presence (Skyway City).

I guess railways and highways are already present, represented by those straight black lines? It seems like they should be a little bit more dynamic.

Speaking of transportation... can we please put buses in the city? Pretty please? Because Paragon never got any...

I've also avoided story-specific zones, as they become frozen in the timeline, like the endless reconstruction work in Faultline, or the endless Shivan attack on Galaxy City.

Good idea. I would make sure, however, that allowing for large changes to zones is an idea that's kept in mind at the beginning of the game. While we don't want a perpetual invasion, we also don't want a perpetually static city. Gradual construction changes, or zone-altering events that are more dynamic over time (invasion, reconstruction, new zone) are good things to consider.
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voodoogirl

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Re: Building the World - Phoenix City
« Reply #48 on: September 12, 2012, 05:32:13 pm »
There could be a few railyards, depending on the neighborhood.

It could be a dump, with abandoned trains and garbage. It could also be a waterfront park. There could be even be unused lines retrofitted into parks, like NYC's High Line Park.

Golden Girl

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Re: Building the World - Phoenix City
« Reply #49 on: September 12, 2012, 08:19:26 pm »
I guess railways and highways are already present, represented by those straight black lines? It seems like they should be a little bit more dynamic.

They're just as guides to where the routes go - just like the stright borders between the districts - it's just to give people a rough idea of wherre things are.
The actual routes would twist and turn a lot more - like the coastal higway would follow the coast, and the freight line to the industrial area would wind through the factories and warehouses, with lots of branches off it.
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Re: Building the World - Phoenix City
« Reply #50 on: September 12, 2012, 08:21:35 pm »
There could be a few railyards, depending on the neighborhood.

It could be a dump, with abandoned trains and garbage. It could also be a waterfront park. There could be even be unused lines retrofitted into parks, like NYC's High Line Park.

There are 2 suitable palces so far - one by the freight station in the industrial area, where most of the freight trains would be asembles and stored, and one by the central station for the passenger trains - putting it just south of the central station would help transition the feel of the administration zone to the urban decay zone.
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Sin_Stalker

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Re: Building the World - Phoenix City
« Reply #51 on: September 13, 2012, 04:19:58 pm »
I'd like to share my idea for a city, that keeps in line with the Phoenix name. Keeping in mind that the US already has a city named Phoenix.

I'll try and keep this as short as possible. This was originally a comic I was helping to create and write for Image that was put on hold indefinitely.

The premise is that in Phoenix, Arizona, a terrorist threat occurred and a nuclear bomb was planted. The city was quickly evacuating while heroes from around the area and neighboring states and cities flocked to help locate the hidden bomb. A group of young heroes found it in someone's house. They attempted to defuse it, rather than calling for official help. The bomb went off and the majority of Phoenix was destroyed.

In this "universe" there are two main heroes, like your Statesman and Manticore, Superman and Batman, Captain American and Iron Man. They are the Cowl and Sentry. (although Sentry was going to be changed as there area several Sentry heroes we found out in several different comic verses).

Sentry is a scientist who in an emergancy downloaded his brain's information into a computerized prototype. So he is pretty much a robot with a mind inside.

The Cowl is Batman and Iron Man combined, to give you a quick idea. After the destruction, Cowl revealed his secret identity as the CEO/owner of this big corporation (I don't have my story bible in front of me so I down' remember the name. So for this story I'll just call it Cowl Industries.)

I can go into more detail int their relationship and how they are connected but I'll save that for another post.

Cowl with his company rebuilt Phoenix into a New York, Paragon, Millennium, type city. The heart of New Phoenix was right at the center of the where the blast once was, only dozens of meters above. The city is a tech paradise. There are cameras at every intersection. Terminals all over the city where people can access superhero and normal authorities, ask for help, directions, etc, etc.

Cowl also helped push Superhero registration through. Each state has their own versions and whatnot but the story focuses on the city.
All seems great, Cowl even runs for mayor or senator or whatever and is unanimously voted in.


This would be the "origin" story that you are first introduced to upon creation of your character but there is more to it that would be mid level or end game content. I'll explain this now.


What you find out is that these young heroes who found the bomb, actually attempted to contact proper authorities but signals were blocked. The hero known as Sentry showed up on the scene. Without speaking, he killed the groups tech guy, "The Nerd". A fight between these heroes continued until the bomb went off.

You find out that Cowl Industries, not only rebuilt the city, but technically has ownership of all land, buildings and whatever else is within the city. They bought the land, they built it all but facts like these are rather hidden.

In the end, you find that Cowl has a rather dark plan. His view is that humans throughout history always vote or lose their own freedom. He believes that eventually, someone will succeed in taking over the US or the world. So his plans are to slowly take over. He has plans to use Sentry's tech to extend his own life and be the "ruler" of the US (and possibly eventually the world) forever. This way he can be a "soft tyranny" and not let any genocidal dictators take over.

He planted the bomb. He reprogram and suppressed the Sentry's mind and is controlling him and other puppet Sentry bodies. The entire city was build to be a giant robotic brain. Where the current Sentry would exist throughout the entire city. Eventually replaced by Cowl's own brain. All city's would become this, allowing full control of everything.

This would all be found at by the end as you and other heroes take on the Sentry and free his real personality, and then take on the Cowl, who eventually dies but comes back as a robot like the Sentry as a full on baddy.


The game would have two classes as well. Vigilante and Registered hero. Registered heroes work with the authorties, and some even work on a police force, earning a pay check and whatnot. The other would be a vigilante, unregistered and first start of in the shadows more, fighting in the sewers and in poorer areas. The vigs would be able to (near the beginning) gain forged documents and whatnot to appear registered.
Certain game content, story and whatnot, is only accessible if your leader is one or the other. Vigs, even with forged stuff wouldn't be able to do the higher up political stuff, body guarding Cowl or something. While Regs (registered heroes) wouldn't meet with a resistance that doesn't like the registration acts and are worried about things Cowl and our government is doing.

By the end though it doesn't matter as you reveal the real baddy and the city is set free.

So at first everything is hunky doory. You have your stereotypes of a city being rebuilt, you have some of your main heroes. You have a hero like Cowl being removed and a hero role that is left absent, for the "player's" hero to fill.

There would be major downtown zones like Atlas and Steel Canyon. A warehouse district like KR. Even an "old Phoenix" area where you can have your faultline, boomtown, type places. Maybe not as destroyed as boomtown though. :)


What do ya think?

Golden Girl

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Re: Building the World - Phoenix City
« Reply #52 on: September 13, 2012, 07:32:48 pm »
While the set up is interesting, I think that it's too far from the feel of CoH to fit in with the goal of creating a spiritual successor to CoH - the Silver Age vibe is what we'd be aiming for.
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Sin_Stalker

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Re: Building the World - Phoenix City
« Reply #53 on: September 14, 2012, 05:23:14 am »
Well that was actually how it was designed to be. I'm a fan of the silver age, although I don't know if I'd consider CoH only that. The design was meant to fit into the Image superhero universe. To fit in with the series' like Invincible or the Dynamo 5, so their universes could be joined if the comic was popular.

Anyways, just an idea. Connects with the real world, gives you end game content to "close" that arc. I also own the IP so there also wouldn't be any problems with using it since it was originally for Image but not owned by them, if you were worried about that. So let me know if you change your mind. :)

Sin_Stalker

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Re: Building the World - Phoenix City
« Reply #54 on: September 14, 2012, 06:29:01 am »
I reshaped the headland and southern coast line, marked the ridge, and added the settlement area.
As the headland is quite high, along with the ridge, the settlement would probably be built on a pretty steep slope leading down to the sea.



Maybe to make it more different by flipping it over and making it West coast instead of east coast? Just an idea to set it apart even more.

Felderburg

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Re: Building the World - Phoenix City
« Reply #55 on: September 14, 2012, 03:57:39 pm »
Maybe to make it more different by flipping it over and making it West coast instead of east coast? Just an idea to set it apart even more.

Not a bad idea, and if it was in California, it would probably definitely have a Spanish name, further setting it apart (nearly every major city there has a Spanish name - Los Angeles, San Diego, San Francisco, Sacramento, San Jose, Fresno, etc.).
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Re: Building the World - Phoenix City
« Reply #56 on: September 14, 2012, 04:47:24 pm »
Making it West Coast WOULD have some advantages, namely putting us closer to some of the "hazard zone" areas that we've been considering. There's also a lot more room for the alien invasion/DE hybrid group in the West Coast, as there's significantly more wild parkland out there.

However, for overall deep history, I tend to lean towards the East Coast, as it's got a much longer history behind it than the frontier areas.
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Sin_Stalker

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Re: Building the World - Phoenix City
« Reply #57 on: September 14, 2012, 06:34:44 pm »
Understandable. Its definitely something to consider, West vs. East.

Might I add two more things though.

1. Why don't we make the city a little smaller than what CoH currently has and make two cities. In comics, you have twin City's for two different Flash's to live.

It doesn't even have to be twin city's but like... having Gotham and Metropolis or Metropolis and Star City.
Allows you with more lore. Instead of tying everything to one city (like CoH did) you have different lore, different arcs, different dominant villain groups.

One city can be more dark (like the Rogue Islands were but in the US) and one can be bright and happy or whatever contrasts are decided.
It also allows you to open up the lore and have things that would normally contradict themselves but don't since its not all one location. The benefit is, a more diverse lore will help bring in more players, as we all view CoH's strengths and weaknesses and just its existence slightly differently than the next person.

2. Who says it has to be a made up city anyways? It just needs made up lore. Couldn't we just simply say its New York, Los Angeles, Washington DC, etc, etc. Helps with city design and we can always make alterations to the city's layout, adding new things and removing ugly parts. It gives us a free template to build off of instead of the map created above. Cuz that map is way way way too close to Paragon City and I'm pretty sure its enough to warrant legal action from NCsoft.

Heck, we just call our version of Croatoa as the real life location its based off of. Same with most of the zones added to CoH. :)

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Re: Building the World - Phoenix City
« Reply #58 on: September 14, 2012, 08:00:23 pm »
Because even one city would be a huge project, it would be a better use of time and resources to create a single shared city space for all factions - and if we managed to get that off the ground, we'd then look at adding other large zones to exapnd the scope of the game.

Real world locations don't offer the same scope for creativity as a fictional city does - we'd be looking to keep the Paragon City vibe for the new city.
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Re: Building the World - Phoenix City
« Reply #59 on: September 14, 2012, 09:35:45 pm »
Because even one city would be a huge project, it would be a better use of time and resources to create a single shared city space for all factions - and if we managed to get that off the ground, we'd then look at adding other large zones to exapnd the scope of the game.

Real world locations don't offer the same scope for creativity as a fictional city does - we'd be looking to keep the Paragon City vibe for the new city.

To expand on this, we need a city with a solid superhero history, just like Paragon, and we also need a city that can be customized to fit our needs. A real-world city provides less room for that than a fictional one, which is part of why DC uses fictional cities rather than real ones. We can design the city around what we need and want without having to worry about real-life residents of that city being offended that we didn't include their favorite coffee shop or bookstore. :)

We are *definitely* looking at expanding to multiple cities in the LONG TERM. That's plenty of room for expansion - Both Golden Girl and I really like the idea of using the entire world rather than limiting ourselves to the general area of the SuperCity. For example, we could have Phoenix City be the main hub, but put The Hollows/Faultline on the West Coast - Or even in the center of the Midwest. (Google the New Madrid Fault - If it goes off...or if a super *sets* it off...St. Louis or Lewisville become Faultline. That's a whole expansion's worth of content right there, between finding the villain in question and helping with cleaning up the disaster...)

As a Phoenix resident, I'd really prefer not to use the physical location of Phoenix. Frankly, it's a BORING location. There's a metric ton of desert. Lots of...dirt. And sand. And...cacti. Bleh. Not inspiring. Not interesting. It's freaking hot. Even our cosplay community puts fans and ice packs in their costumes. Water and Ice powers? "There IS no water in this air! It's hot, Bob, and I'm dehydrated." :)
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