Author Topic: Something that the various movements may want to avoid  (Read 1686 times)

Samuraiko

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Something that the various movements may want to avoid
« on: December 20, 2012, 03:50:06 pm »
http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/12/20/ask-massively-yes-we-have-heard-of-your-game/

The COH community gets called out by name on this one.

We have made noise. We have gotten attention. And we are walking a really, really, REALLY fine line here between "passionate supporters" and "spammers." Which is why, so far, any call to action (Titan or otherwise) that wanders too close to that line, I have not participated in. It is very, very easy to cross it - and losing the respect and goodwill of the gaming community is not worth it.

I'm not saying 'give up.' I'm saying 'please be courteous.'

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Segev

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Re: Something that the various movements may want to avoid
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2012, 04:15:52 pm »
Reading the article closely, the biggest thing they're upset by is spam (are you even aware of what massively has written?) and insults (what the heck is somebody asking for a favor doing insulting the person from whom they ask it? ...wait, entitlement culture...never mind -_-).

They do mention the Save CoH movement by name; I think from context they're mostly avoiding "being a cheap publicity platform" and that, if the tips are truly of something new and show some appreciation for what massively has written on the subject in the past, they will not be offended nor consider it spam. (I would suggest, therefore, that any future attempts to contact massively look into what they have written before, express gratitude for it, and focus on suggesting how the new piece of information you're trying to spread around builds on what massively has covered before.)

houtex

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Re: Something that the various movements may want to avoid
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2012, 05:19:42 pm »
"But seriously, don't be a jerk in your email. At least pretend you read us and aren't just trying to use us to promote the underdog game or studio or campaign on which you've pinned all your hopes and dreams."

That's the key.  So... go find a couple of articles, put a link to them in your spam, and say "I read this, it was great!" and the problem is solved!

...what?  That's what they want, right?...

/Ok, be more honest than that, but there it is, spelled out fer y'all.
//And no, I'm not callin' yer heartfelt correspondences to them 'spam'.  But they seem to be...?

Segev

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Re: Something that the various movements may want to avoid
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2012, 05:26:08 pm »
It's "spam" if it's unwanted floods that make it hard to separate signal from noise.

Generally, the two things they complained about are the rudeness that you noted, and the feeling that the writers didn't really know what massively had done already. That the writers didn't actually read massively, and wouldn't really read massively even if they wrote more about the subject in question, and that massively wasn't appreciated as anything other than a work-horse out of which they wanted some free horsepower for their PR engine. To be used and forgotten and not even noticed.

So, if you're going to send people heart-felt pleas for publicity, make sure you show them due courtesy by reading at LEAST what they have written on your subject in the past and show that you appreciate it. To make it interesting and relevant, try to have something new or with which they can build on their prior articles.

TimtheEnchanter

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Re: Something that the various movements may want to avoid
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2012, 05:39:36 pm »
Aye... I'm not sure what's been going on with people sending emails to Massively lately, but they've been one of our biggest supporters throughout all of this. For a while you couldn't go a week without a new SaveCoH article from Massively.

Twisted Toon

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Re: Something that the various movements may want to avoid
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2012, 02:33:59 am »
Aye... I'm not sure what's been going on with people sending emails to Massively lately, but they've been one of our biggest supporters throughout all of this. For a while you couldn't go a week without a new SaveCoH article from Massively.
It probably has something to do with Christmas. You know, that time of the year when everyone is rushing around, cutting each other off in traffic, getting into fights over a talking stuffed bear, all so they can, from the goodness of their heart, generously give a precious gift to some stranger...  ???

Not that I have anything against Christmas, mind you. I just don't like to go out at this time of year. It's why I do my shopping online a month or two in advance.  ;D

Altoholic Monkey

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Re: Something that the various movements may want to avoid
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2012, 04:34:20 am »
But no magazine wants to feel like a cheap publicity platform. And no one responds well to annoyware, even when we want to support the cause. City of Heroes' various campaigns suffered from this same affliction; we received more email (and pageviews and comments) from the game's community in three months than we had in five years.

Not sure why we were being singled out when I don't think any call to action specifically stated to email Massively.

But I don't think its a good idea to smack readers upside the head because you're slightly annoyed at emails. You just leave it be knowing it will slow down eventually. Complaining about page views and comments when that's exactly what you want is a bit silly, in my opinion.

sinister8088

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Re: Something that the various movements may want to avoid
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2012, 04:40:57 am »
I wrote something here, but I guess I'm missing the point because no one replied.  Moving on.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2012, 12:47:30 am by sinister8088 »

dwturducken

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Re: Something that the various movements may want to avoid
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2012, 06:42:28 am »
Not sure why we were being singled out when I don't think any call to action specifically stated to email Massively.

We do have a CtA. It's titled "Thank The Media." Is it our fault they account for a good quarter of the articles listed?
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FatherXmas

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Re: Something that the various movements may want to avoid
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2012, 07:46:22 am »
Websites earn money from page views.

Websites that have frequent updates are viewed more often than ones that don't.  Why visit a site that updates once a week rather the throughout the day?

Most professional news websites are simply better looking blogs than your average wordpress one.

You don't want to anger the people viewing your website by picking on their favorite game/band/sports team so most articles have a positive spin.

The easiest source of new material are press releases or posts on other websites.  Few sites have a staff of actual reporters doing original stories.

How much of legitimate big name news sites (CNN, CBS, MSNBC, Fox News) are simply wire stories or opinions versus original story content?

That's the way things are out on the Intertubes.  Or TV.  Or radio.
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eabrace

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Re: Something that the various movements may want to avoid
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2012, 11:26:14 am »
Interesting.  More so given who writes that particular column and how attached it seemed to me she was to CoH.  I'd be curious to hear more detail on what we were collectively doing that was getting annoying so that we can discourage people from doing that again.
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Re: Something that the various movements may want to avoid
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2012, 12:09:58 pm »
Interesting.  More so given who writes that particular column and how attached it seemed to me she was to CoH.  I'd be curious to hear more detail on what we were collectively doing that was getting annoying so that we can discourage people from doing that again.
I'm guessing listing Guild Wars 2 as MMO of the year, Wildstar as the most anticipated MMO for 2013 and ArenaNet as co MMO studio of the year (along with SOE) rubs some the wrong way.  Or not tacking a warning about the evils of NCSoft on every article discussing one of their current MMOs (or even talking about them in the first place).
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SkyStreak

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Re: Something that the various movements may want to avoid
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2012, 04:06:23 pm »
Interesting.  More so given who writes that particular column and how attached it seemed to me she was to CoH.  I'd be curious to hear more detail on what we were collectively doing that was getting annoying so that we can discourage people from doing that again.

Even on the most recent podcast, Bree mentioned the Icon program and referred to the people who developed it as 'the amazing people at Titan' and that she played with Icon for a while....

So, yeah, I think she is/was attached to the game.

Sekoia

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Re: Something that the various movements may want to avoid
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2012, 04:31:05 pm »
Interesting.  More so given who writes that particular column and how attached it seemed to me she was to CoH.  I'd be curious to hear more detail on what we were collectively doing that was getting annoying so that we can discourage people from doing that again.

They've been covering City of Heroes for five years. No doubt they got some traffic from our community. But did we thank them every time they posted something? Did we comment extensively in response to those articles? Were most of us even aware of those articles?

We're like that friend who only comes calling when they need something.

I'm sure they appreciate our appreciation. But it probably also irks them that they're getting SO MUCH feedback now that we need something and most of it's primarily because of our own self-interest ("you're giving us publicity!") rather than an actual appreciation for their publication.

If City got saved tomorrow, how many of us would be reading Massively's regular columns about City a year from now? How many of us would be thanking them then, or commenting in them then? I imagine it'd be more than it had been before, but still far fewer than during the past several months.


The biggest thing I take away from it is that if you're going to contact someplace, make sure you show an actual interest in their publication and not just in our own needs. (And don't come across as an entitled jerk, obviously.) I imagine most of us have been doing that, though. Other than that, I'm not sure there's much we can do about it.

Segev

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Re: Something that the various movements may want to avoid
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2012, 04:42:45 pm »
To be fair, thanking somebody for the publicity when it is something you need is not being disingenuous. You're not claiming to be an old friend, you're saying, "Thank you so much for your help, now, when I need it. It really is appreciated."

The problem comes in if you're acting entitled about it, not if you're being grateful.

Nafaustu

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Re: Something that the various movements may want to avoid
« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2012, 04:51:50 pm »
Huh.   Well I guess that's new.

When I google articles about topics i'm interested in, and I read the articles, I -do- ocassionally comment on the articles without being an elite reader of the entire subset of articles perpetuated by a web publication.

I do this with all sorts of things...blogs, webzines, message forums...

I guess commenting on articles with information that i'm looking for that interests me makes me some sort of spammer heathen then, based on some of the logic in this thread...

I'm confused, I thought selective interest was what made the internet.

EDIT:   And trolls.   Selective interest and Trolls.   I feel trolled right now, actually.

Tanglefoe

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Re: Something that the various movements may want to avoid
« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2012, 04:56:40 pm »
I don't really see the negativity in that article directed towards the CoH community.  I took it as a thumbs up and a quick wink.  Am I missing something?

Sekoia

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Re: Something that the various movements may want to avoid
« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2012, 05:23:47 pm »
Something to consider as people make comments: are you interested in understanding where the person who wrote the article is coming from, or are you more interested in taking things personally and getting offended because the author dared to not unequivocally appreciate our appreciation and comments?

If it's the latter, you're making it all about you. And that's pretty much the underlying problem. Unfortunately it's also pretty normal. It seems like many on the internet (and off) anymore want to make everything about themselves and get offended at things at the drop of a hat. (I know I've caught myself doing it before -- the internet lends itself to that, unfortunately.)

No doubt Massively, as a company, appreciates the influx of pageviews that puts money in the coffers and may well be happy to leave it at that. And if you're just concerned with the company, so be it.

However, Massively isn't just a company, it's also a group of reporters. They write for a living. I can understand why they, as individuals, might feel as the article suggests.

The article written (and my comments regarding it, for that matter) isn't directed at you, the individual. They're directed at communities, at the aggregate.

To be fair, thanking somebody for the publicity when it is something you need is not being disingenuous. You're not claiming to be an old friend, you're saying, "Thank you so much for your help, now, when I need it. It really is appreciated."

The problem comes in if you're acting entitled about it, not if you're being grateful.

We may not be disingenuous and we may not be claiming to be an old friend, but I think my point still stands even if my choice of simile was imperfect. I know if I were putting out a publication, I'd much more appreciate long-term support and readership rather than a huge crowd of people popping in to thank me for supporting their cause and then leaving. I'm not sure I'd criticize the ones who only pop in briefly to give thanks for helping their issue, but it would certainly feel bittersweet.

It'd be hard not to feel as if they cared more about the publicity than the article itself, no matter how grateful they are.

I'm confused, I thought selective interest was what made the internet.

Selective interest and entitlement abound on the internet. That doesn't mean they make a person feel valued for their work.

I don't really see the negativity in that article directed towards the CoH community.  I took it as a thumbs up and a quick wink.  Am I missing something?

Saying we "suffered from this same affliction" suggests it's not all positive. I don't think they were looking to chastise our efforts so much as acknowledging that this rather bittersweet tendency is present even among our efforts.

I certainly don't see that the author is saying we're doing or have done anything wrong. (Probably because we haven't. :))

Nafaustu

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Re: Something that the various movements may want to avoid
« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2012, 08:52:15 pm »
<snip>
Selective interest and entitlement abound on the internet. That doesn't mean they make a person feel valued for their work.
<snip>

You'll notice I said 'in this thread' not 'in the article.'   Its important.   It was a bit tongue in cheek on my part.   Also the purpose of the edit was to clarify that.   Purpose, apparently, failed.  Could be that i'm missing out on some badass end of the world parties right now because i'm at work making my a bit dry. ;)

As a point of order: I also didn't particularly see a shot at us -in the article.-   I saw a shout out, but not a shot.

I will, however, stand on the fact that if i'm reading your work in which I am interested and leaving you a comment on the work you have done, I am generally expressing graditude, discussion or other forms of constructive feedback on that work.  That doesn't particularly make me feel like i'm contributing to the 'me' generation.   (I'm a bit too old for a 'me' ;) ).

I feel reasonably confident that us thanking them in the comments isn't particularly what we're referring to here.   They've given us a boatload of coverage.

Mister Bison

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Re: Something that the various movements may want to avoid
« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2012, 08:58:52 pm »
What, I sent too many emails ? I'm so flabbergasted I'll send one to know why, and I will send as many as necessary to get my answer ! >:(

</sarcasm>
Yeeessss....