Oh look! We saved an MMO. Just not ours....=(

[Lock-On]

It doesn't look like anyone else has seen this article on Rock, Paper, Shotgun yet.

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/05/21/guild-wars-1-development-to-be-halted-automated/

To summarize, NCSoft has decided that instead of shutting down Guild Wars 1, they will instead automate all of the scheduled events, tournaments, and other functions that used to be handled by the (admittedly small) dev team, end all new development for the game, and leave the game running in perpetuity.

Or at least until no one is looking and they can shut it down without the bad publicity they'll get. 

On the one hand, I'm very happy that a community is not being destroyed as a result of these actions and that this game and that community will get to live on and have adventures past when the development of the game is considered profitable to the company.

On the other hand....NOW, NCSOFT?  NOW??  Now you get it??

And you thought our actions wouldn't produce anything positive.

I can't type any more.  I'm physically wounded by this news.

[JaguarX]

well, it's progress. One of the gols I thought was to hope and prevent a shutdown at the hands of NCsoft or other companies from happening to other mmo players.

Seems like although COX isnt back, this might be a sign of a victory assuming our actions had influence.

We wanted NCSoft to change their ways and this may be a step in that direction that they either do care about players or starting to realize the importance of the players.

I look at it this way. If asked about two months ago if NCsoft will put a game into maintance mode many would say hell no, they will close it. Now, here we are and they are putting a game into maintance mode instead of shutting the doors. Either our influence had somethign to do with it, our influence was irrelevant in that decision and it's a deal between Arena Net and NCsoft or something of the likes, or they didnt want to risk pissing off GW players and potentially hurting the money potential of GW2 in a major way.
(keyword, major way. Meaning while a few players would have played GW or GW2 without shutdown, those players are very few compared to number of players in GW 2 already and the other ex coxers that moved ot GW2 anyways regardless of the shutdown actions).

Or lastly maybe they just simply realized the mistake from the COX shutdown and etc. and decided to see what happens if they kept a game open for once.

Either way I'm happy as hell that another player base didnt have to suffer a shutdown and game closing. I wouldnt wish that on anyone, especially for the people where they call it a home.

[therain93]

well, it's progress. One of the gols I thought was to hope and prevent a shutdown at the hands of NCsoft or other companies from happening to other mmo players.

<snip>

Either way I'm happy as hell that another player base didnt have to suffer a shutdown and game closing. I wouldnt wish that on anyone, especially for the people where they call it a home.

This.  I wouldn't claim victory, but it's a positive outcome in what could have easily been a dire situation for another playerbase.

[houtex]

That... sucks. 

Oh, I'm happy for the Guild Wars 1 people... although I read 'perpetuity' with a bit of skepticism... "Play Free Forever" comes to mind.... But they get to hang about in their world and with their works, and that's a Good Thing(tm) for them.

But that NCSoft finds it equitable to do this for GW1, but not CoH... yeah.  That's the 'sucks' part.

There's likely a ton more to it... I agree with ya, JaguarX, in that it's probably a hedge against tickin' off the GW1 people, which... were/are there more of them than was in CoH?  Actively?  I myself don't know...  If there were, and by quite a few % points... makes more sense they don't have a gigantic ticked off party than a small ticked off party*. 

I'm thinking this is an experiment.  And I would not doubt that the uproar and possibly continuing negativity towards NCSoft regarding the CoH fiasco had some part in this decision.

/ * - Their thoughts, not mine, btw, we ain't small.  We're Big Damn Heroes.  Ain't we just?  Shiny.

[Terwyn]

I would honestly happily consider this a victory. They are learning.

Though, I still play Guild Wars, so I'm biased.

[JanessaVR]

Talk about striking when the iron is hot.  They need to CALL JACK.  Can't wait for the start of our ad campaign...

[Captain Electric]

If we had anything at all to do with this (the world may never know), then indeed it is a victory for us.

It seems like it is a step in a better direction for NCSoft, in any case, although I'm reserved about that for now. I'm half-expecting FatherXmas or somebody to come in and say, "Nope, looks like they have this thing in their contract with ArenaNet...."

But, OK, putting all of that aside, the bottom-line result is that there's a community out there who just found out that they'll get to see their game world live on a while longer, perhaps a long while longer, people like Terwyn above.

This is good news, not just for them, either. It's damn good news, and I'm happy about it too.

I'm still boycotting NCSoft though.

[no hero]

I would honestly happily consider this a victory. They are learning.

We. Win.

"We can't hold out forever Heroes, but we *can* give them one *humongous* Rewire."
- Hot Rod, Transformers: The Movie (1986)

[eabrace]

A pyrrhic victory is still a victory, I suppose. 

[Bliz]

I've heard several times that Arena net has a clause that gives them either the right to buy out or the straight out rights (or something to that effect) to GW if NCSoft decides to shut it down. Cryptic had the same type of clause for CoX that for whatever reason did not port over when Paragon bought out.

So, as much as I want to say we had and effect, I'm not so sure.

Take it with a grain of salt as I'm having trouble finding a source.

[Captain Electric]

Just in the past 10 minutes since I wrote my above reply, I've become a bit more suspicious that this "victory" has more to do with Arenanet, less (and more likely nothing) to do with us.

In which case, you know what? It's still a victory for someone out there. For Arenanet and their fans. Good for them. Because, really, with that kind of preventative foresight, they deserve an industry trophy.

P.S. It may become harder and harder for NA/EU studios to say "no" to eastern publishers, as much as we'd like them to after a mess like ours. But this thing with Arenanet may be evidence that if a studio covers all of its bases appropriately, it can survive in a world that is, let's face it, increasingly culturally Bladerunner (I'm not talking about the androids, but the other big elephant in that film).

[Iron-Emerald]

I'm really happy with this news to be honest. I mean sure, there are other factors going on here due to having a different relationship with ArenaNet. But if the SaveCoH actions and reactions were any kind of consideration in doing things this way then I think the CoH fanbase can feel proud.

Sure, the ultimate goal we're all after is for City of Heroes to once more be playable. But for me at least there's always been the secondary goal of hoping that company's will re-evaluate how they do such things in future. If we've contributed at all to changing attitudes in that regard then that's a great thing.

[FatherXmas]

Sort of talked about already in the Other Games section.

http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/topic,8473.0.html

You can find my comments there.

[Taceus Jiwede]

I've become a bit more suspicious that this "victory" has more to do with Arenanet

Ya kind of my thoughts too, it seem's like they have a sweet deal going right now.  But maybe we had something to do with this, I'd like to think we did.  It is the first NCSoft that seem's to be getting a decent burial.

[Segev]

Because we cannot be sure we "did" it, that it wasn't something Areanet did, we should not crow victory. In fact, we shouldn't do so, anyway, because that has connotations of the "poor winner" and trying to rub somebody's face in it.

Now, despite how we may feel about NCSoft, is a time to direct at least some of our energies to congratulating GW1's player base and community, AreaNet, and, yes, thank NCSoft for showing this new concern for their players. Celebrate the continuance of GW1 with its community. Laud, in at least a few small ways, through some of the avenues we used to appeal before, NCSoft for its new direction. For realigning its focus to support its communities.

Yes, the word-choice is deliberate. No, do not make it snarky. Use it to support this direction, and to show them that we can be friendly allies, if they act with respect.

They have done, for GW1, what we would have liked them to do for CoH. Reach out and show them we appreciate it. If we mention, "we wish CoH had gotten this treatment," we need to carefully do so so that we don't look like we're being sour. Wistful, nostalgic, regretful, sure. But while we have the right to be bitter, we cannot and should not show it in relation to this, which is a good thing. We are heroes, after all, and heroes are grateful when good wins out, even if it wasn't the good they pursued for themselves, and even if they are not sure their efforts mattered.

Be heroes once more; it will help encourage more good behavior from NCSoft in the future.

We can always lobby again as we have been in the future, as opportunities arise. (Who knows? If we show them the positive PR benefits of this, maybe they'll be more inclined to work with TF:HM's eventual recruit.)

[DrakeGrimm]

One small step for hero, one giant leap for hero-kind. In this kind of a battle, any ground gained can be measured in inches and is a victory all the same. Now let's get out there and press the attack! (Politely, though. We're still heroes after all.)

[Triplash]

Because we cannot be sure we "did" it, that it wasn't something Areanet did, we should not crow victory. In fact, we shouldn't do so, anyway, because that has connotations of the "poor winner" and trying to rub somebody's face in it.

Now, despite how we may feel about NCSoft, is a time to direct at least some of our energies to congratulating GW1's player base and community, AreaNet, and, yes, thank NCSoft for showing this new concern for their players. Celebrate the continuance of GW1 with its community. Laud, in at least a few small ways, through some of the avenues we used to appeal before, NCSoft for its new direction. For realigning its focus to support its communities.

Yes, the word-choice is deliberate. No, do not make it snarky. Use it to support this direction, and to show them that we can be friendly allies, if they act with respect.

They have done, for GW1, what we would have liked them to do for CoH. Reach out and show them we appreciate it. If we mention, "we wish CoH had gotten this treatment," we need to carefully do so so that we don't look like we're being sour. Wistful, nostalgic, regretful, sure. But while we have the right to be bitter, we cannot and should not show it in relation to this, which is a good thing. We are heroes, after all, and heroes are grateful when good wins out, even if it wasn't the good they pursued for themselves, and even if they are not sure their efforts mattered.

Be heroes once more; it will help encourage more good behavior from NCSoft in the future.

We can always lobby again as we have been in the future, as opportunities arise. (Who knows? If we show them the positive PR benefits of this, maybe they'll be more inclined to work with TF:HM's eventual recruit.)

I rarely quote a full post when it's longer than a paragraph, but this one is just so entirely true. Yes to all of this. Positive reinforcement; carrot instead of stick; show 'em what good PR can do; prove ourselves the good guys by acting like the good guys, not like selfish children who happen to be allied with the good guys; all of that.

Whether we want our efforts to be taken seriously, or we just want to be decent people, this is the right attitude to have.


I'm seeing this as a very positive turn of events for the people who play Guild Wars. And no, I'm not one of those people. I bought the game and a couple expansions a few years back, tried it, didn't care for it. But I'm happy for the people who do like it. Why? Because now that I know what it's like to lose a game world that you genuinely care about, I would never wish that on the players in another game world.

So let's be happy for them. And if you decide to go tell them that you're happy for them, try to leave our baggage out of it. Let's not be that person, the one who has to rain on everybody else's parade by constantly bringing up their own personal issues. We're better than that. And if we're not yet, then the only way we'll get to be, is by cutting out crap like that.

It's a good day for their game! Let it just be a good day, period.

[Taceus Jiwede]

Because we cannot be sure we "did" it, that it wasn't something Areanet did, we should not crow victory. In fact, we shouldn't do so, anyway, because that has connotations of the "poor winner" and trying to rub somebody's face in it.

Now, despite how we may feel about NCSoft, is a time to direct at least some of our energies to congratulating GW1's player base and community, AreaNet, and, yes, thank NCSoft for showing this new concern for their players. Celebrate the continuance of GW1 with its community. Laud, in at least a few small ways, through some of the avenues we used to appeal before, NCSoft for its new direction. For realigning its focus to support its communities.

Yes, the word-choice is deliberate. No, do not make it snarky. Use it to support this direction, and to show them that we can be friendly allies, if they act with respect.

They have done, for GW1, what we would have liked them to do for CoH. Reach out and show them we appreciate it. If we mention, "we wish CoH had gotten this treatment," we need to carefully do so so that we don't look like we're being sour. Wistful, nostalgic, regretful, sure. But while we have the right to be bitter, we cannot and should not show it in relation to this, which is a good thing. We are heroes, after all, and heroes are grateful when good wins out, even if it wasn't the good they pursued for themselves, and even if they are not sure their efforts mattered.

Be heroes once more; it will help encourage more good behavior from NCSoft in the future.

We can always lobby again as we have been in the future, as opportunities arise. (Who knows? If we show them the positive PR benefits of this, maybe they'll be more inclined to work with TF:HM's eventual recruit.)

Well put Segev.  I know Triplash just quoted it, but what you said rings true through the halls of Titan.  So I felt it was good to let you know how much I think you hit the nail on the head

[LadyVamp]

Before I would consider declaring victory, I would have to ask when they killed off lineage did they see a dramatic drop in lineage 2?  Might be as simple as, "We took a hell of a hit in lineage 2 when we killed lineage.  maybe we better leave gw1 up until we get ready to kill off gw2."

On the other hand, if there was no effect in the case of those two games, perhaps they are catching a clue and maybe, just maybe, they would be open to negotiation to put coh back up on a server or two.  At least, I would hope they would be willing to talk.  But we won't know unless someone asks.

[Mistress Urd]

Its not "victory" until I can play CoH again.