Titan Network
Graveyard => Save Paragon Retirees => Save Paragon City! => Topic started by: Queen of Eels on December 12, 2012, 07:29:08 PM
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Not sure what this means for us:
"NCsoft Corporation announced that it will sell its entire 809 million shares of NC Interactive Inc., which is mainly engaged in the online game service, for KRW 78,348,368,000, on December 24, 2012, for newly establishing company."
http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/036570.KS/key-developments/article/2658283 (http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/036570.KS/key-developments/article/2658283)
Also, "NCsoft Corporation announced that it will establish a new wholly owned subsidiary in the United States to establish an entity which can be in charge of the United States and Europe businesses. The new entity, to be capitalized at KRW 50,500 million, will be mainly engaged in the management of the United States and Europe subsidiaries. The expected transaction settlement date is December 24, 2012. "
http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/036570.KS/key-developments/article/2658297 (http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/036570.KS/key-developments/article/2658297)
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So much for the "pulling out of the West" theory?
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I just hope it doesn't make for a great big ball o' red tape around the IP.
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So what exactly does this mean for CoH? Good thing? Bad thing? Who the heck knows?
Edit: Small voice in the back of my head wondering if this is Disney buying it?
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I donno...
I doubt it's going make things easier... but hopefully I'm totally wrong.
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This is... interesting...
How much does "NC Interactive Inc" actually own? And if it's not entirely owned by NCSoft, who else owns shares on it?
I am no business guy... but I smell a lot of trouble and HUGE restructuring changes coming to the West branches...
If they are smart, consolidation into a single location is in place. No matter what, I am sure all remaining studios got to hold tight, there are more layoffs coming.
BTW they may still be set to leave the West. Did they specify if this was going to be an operating subsidiary? They may as easily set up a non-operating subsidiary that exists on paper only (i.e. stocks, bonds, articles of incorporation) and use the identity and rolling stock of the parent company.
Everyone at all studios in NCSoft should be VERY scared.
Edit:
Wait... this new subsidiary "will be mainly engaged in the management of the United States and Europe subsidiaries."...
A subsidiary to manage subsidiary... sounds like distancing yourself, setting a man in the middle, or perhaps a way to force more control into these grandchild subsidiaries...
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Am I reading this right? They're selling of $72 million worth of shares... and starting a new company with less money than I used to make in a year before I lost my job? Or does that roughly $47,000 mean something else, like cost-per-share-of-new-company?
Edit: I done grammar good. Been awake nearly 90 hours now.
If they had just said 50.5 billion in the OP instead of 50,500 million I would've done math better. OK. That makes more sense.
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ZOMG, wut?
I can't leave you people alone for five minutes! Here I was, innocently coming back here to link Mercedes' Korea Times interview in yet another blog post, and now my head is positively spinning!
Is CoH being sold to another publisher, some new entity that will control NA/EU? And for that matter, are Tabula Rasa, Dungeon Runners, Auto Assault, Exteel and their other closed down IPs being sold off to someone else now too?
And what does this mean for EU's universally-reviled publisher GameForge and their version of Aion EU? And for Lineage 2 EU's Current publisher, Innova?
And what about Guild Wars 1 & 2?
Is this new company going to be another intermediary, running ArenaNet, and overseeing the EU publishers of Aion and Lineage 2 as well as overseeing NCWest and their versions of Aion NA and Lineage NA, or is NCWest, which just had layoffs, getting closed down and replaced altogether by this new company?
Oh man, I am so confused. Christmas Eve is gonna be a total bugger now, huh? ;)
It would be mega cool if *puts on fantasy glasses* it WAS Disney buying the whole thing in a way-- I mean, who the heck else in NA and EU has the money to do this? Okay, I have to go read those articles in full. And I need caffeine!
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ZOMG, wut?
Is CoH being sold to another publisher? And for that matter, are Tabula Rasa, Dungeon Runners, Auto Assault, Exteel and their other closed down IPs being sold off too?
From what I can fathom, this would be the publisher being sold by the mother firm. NC Interactive is the US subsidiary of NCSoft in America, and for a time at least, it was it that held the license bought from Cryptic's hand, and opened Paragon Studios.
This would be our cue to swoop in and buy the whole pancake machine. I suspect it also hase other licenses waiting too, like Tabula Rasa. For 78,348,368,000 KW (that would be 70 M$ right ?) that's a bargain I would say.
About Exteel, it may have the license, but Exteel 2 is under the works, that's why it has closed and C&D letters are sent left and right to emulation efforts.
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Am I reading this right? They're selling of $72 million worth of shares... and starting a new company with less money than I used to make in a year before I lost my job? Or does that roughly $47,000 mean something else, like cost-per-share-of-new-company?
Edit: I done grammar good. Been awake nearly 90 hours now.
The new company will be started with KRW 50,500 million -- add six zeroes to the end of the 50,500 for KRW 50,500,000,000 ( ' ;
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ZOMG, wut?
I can't leave you people alone for five minutes! Here I was, innocently coming back here to link Mercedes' Korea Times interview in yet another blog post, and now my head is positively spinning!
Is CoH being sold to another publisher, some new entity that will control NA/EU? And for that matter, are Tabula Rasa, Dungeon Runners, Auto Assault, Exteel and their other closed down IPs being sold off to someone else now too?
And what does this mean for EU's universally-reviled publisher GameForge and their version of Aion EU? And for Lineage 2 EU's Current publisher, Innova?
And what about Guild Wars 1 & 2?
Is this new company going to be another intermediary, running ArenaNet, and overseeing the EU publishers of Aion and Lineage 2 as well as overseeing NCWest and their versions of Aion NA and Lineage NA, or is NCWest, which just had layoffs, getting closed down and replaced altogether by this new company?
Oh man, I am so confused. Christmas Eve is gonna be a total bugger now, huh? ;)
It would be mega cool if *puts on fantasy glasses* it WAS Disney buying the whole thing in a way-- I mean, who the heck else in NA and EU has the money to do this? Okay, I have to go read those articles in full. And I need caffeine!
It reads as NCsoft selling it to itself -- basically a transfer of assets, probably for better tax management.
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A thought before I drift off for a bit:
This is not a thing that a corporation the size of NCSoft does arbitrarily and at a moment's notice. They've been meeting, brainstorming, crunching numbers, and weighing the options for some time now.
In fact, it is probably unrelated to our efforts (but I won't tell anyone if you don't).
The point I'm trying to make is:
NCSoft has been planning this for a while. They've been making tactical moves to make it easier. It's why they've been silent about various issues, and it's why they were so terse about "exhausting their options." They wanted the new company to deal with that. Main NCSoft corporate is done with the West. I think they've learned that Westerners are not keen on grinding gear-fests, and it's a pain to micromanage two entirely polar methods of creating, marketing, and maintaining games.
So they're cutting and running, but making sure they've still got their fingers in the Western market to get some rainy day money.
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The new company will be started with KRW 50,500 million -- add six zeroes to the end of the 50,500 for KRW 50,500,000,000 ( ' ;
That changes everything. They shoulda just said 50.5 billion and then I wouldn't have been stupid.
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A thought before I drift off for a bit:
This is not a thing that a corporation the size of NCSoft does arbitrarily and at a moment's notice. They've been meeting, brainstorming, crunching numbers, and weighing the options for some time now.
In fact, it is probably unrelated to our efforts (but I won't tell anyone if you don't).
The point I'm trying to make is:
NCSoft has been planning this for a while. They've been making tactical moves to make it easier. It's why they've been silent about various issues, and it's why they were so terse about "exhausting their options." They wanted the new company to deal with that. Main NCSoft corporate is done with the West. I think they've learned that Westerners are not keen on grinding gear-fests, and it's a pain to micromanage two entirely polar methods of creating, marketing, and maintaining games.
So they're cutting and running, but making sure they've still got their fingers in the Western market to get some rainy day money.
They likely were retaining some tax consultants for some time to determine what would be the most effective way to manage assets and taxation of them. It will be interesting to see if the CoH license as well as other old licenses are sold to the new subsidiary.
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For the record, this has not escaped my attention, but I literally just found out about it. I don't know exactly what it means, I'm still working on parsing it and figuring out what's going on. Obviously, if this presents an opportunity for City of Heroes to be acquired by a third party, we will be all over it. If not, we'll still keep on keepin' on.
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For the record, this has not escaped my attention, but I literally just found out about it. I don't know exactly what it means, I'm still working on parsing it and figuring out what's going on. Obviously, if this presents an opportunity for City of Heroes to be acquired by a third party, we will be all over it. If not, we'll still keep on keepin' on.
You get 'em, Tony! Sic 'em! Good boy!
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Thank you, Tony. I was about to say we need a read from one of our resident Very Smart People (hereafter abbreviated "VSP").
The wording is (deliberately?) vague, but i do not see it saying that they are creating a new subsidiary that will buy the old one, but two transactions that, for whatever reason, are occurring on the same day. It smells to me like part of the legal entanglements that VV reported.
Whatever the interpretation, my cautious optimism just incremented.
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They're basically recreating NCsoft West.
This wouldn't impact COH in any way.
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We're talking around $48 million US. Not really a lot of money.
On one hand you could say they are divesting themselves from the west and it may have been yet another corporate reason to shut down Paragon.
As for why do they say 50,500 million Vs billion, two reasons. First all business values are reported in either thousands or millions. Second, which probably explains the first, there is actually two definitions for billion, one thousand million and one million million. English speaking countries (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_scale#Current_usage) tend to use the first definition, the rest of Europe uses the second. However everybody agrees what a million is.
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They're basically recreating NCsoft West.
This wouldn't impact COH in any way.
It would, because NCSoft West is detaining the IP for City of Heroes. So NCSoft (as in the main firm, the Korean headquarters) won't be able to sell it. More, they are selling it with NCSoft West.
note: 404th post ! don't read it ! ;)
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This certainly seems like big news of SOME kind. Like the rest of you, I'm having difficulty understanding exactly WHAT it means.
But - correct me if I'm wrong, but at first glance it appears to boil down to two broad possibilities -
- NCSoft could be distancing themselves from the Western Market. or at least distancing the UPPER MANAGEMENT in Korea from the Western Market.
It may be too optimistic to consider seriously, but I have to ask the question anyway - could they FINALLY have seen the light about the Western market and the new entity is going to be ALLOWED to manage their Western games in a Western fashion without the micro-management from the top?
Or are they preparing to simply CLOSE DOWN operations entirely? And yes - I do mean that in the way it sounds - shutting down GW1, GW2, and Carbine Studios development on Wildstar. And they just GIVE UP and go back to Korea and not even worry about the fallout over here?
The stupid is strong with them - but is it THAT strong?
- Or - could this be a prep for a buyout of all their western operations by another company? (Please dear GOD DON'T LET IT BE Electronic Arts!)
More information is most definitely needed!
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This is not a thing that a corporation the size of NCSoft does arbitrarily and at a moment's notice. They've been meeting, brainstorming, crunching numbers, and weighing the options for some time now.
See, that's what I was thinking. There's no way a move of this size was a sudden thing.
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note: 404th post ! don't read it ! ;)
Don't read what? I can't find anything. ???
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Don't read what? I can't find anything. ???
DUDE! LOL! Very nicely done. You've just become my favorite person of the day! :D
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That changes everything. They shoulda just said 50.5 billion and then I wouldn't have been stupid.
/sidenote
They may have worded it the way they did because a "billion" in the U.S. and a "billion" in the U.K. (historically, this is changing) are two different numbers (http://oxforddictionaries.com/words/how-many-is-a-billion). What we call a billion, for a really long time, they called a "thousand million." So "50 thousand million" in theory should be non-ambiguous. I don't know that's why they worded it that way, but it would make sense.
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That and couple of other things make me think the Reuters piece is a translation picked off some wire service. Just oddities in wording, really.
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NCSoft is essentially selling/spinning off NC Interactive, forming an independent company that will now license NCSoft's titles under some likely royalty scheme like they do in most of their Asian markets. This new entity will still be in charge of translation/adaptation of said properties as well as marketing them in the region and running the service.
This doesn't include ArenaNet and unless clarified, Carbine Studios. This is just the NA publishing face of NCSoft games. As I said earlier this may have been an additional reason to close down Paragon because it was the only developer that reported to NC Interactive so no transfer of IP is involved in this spinoff.
Now NC Interactive had a history of losing money according to the previous quarterly reports once the heyday of CoH and GW wore off until GW2 came out. That turnabout shows to me at least that moneys from box sales go though NC Interactive first, acting like a publisher. My point being that from now on, if NCSoft's various properties over here fail to pull in enough money to keep this new company open, oh well, it's not NCSoft's fault.
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Page 10 of NCSoft november 2012 global earnings report (http://global.ncsoft.com/global/ir/earnings.aspx): NC Interactive is a subsidiary of NCSoft (maybe that's not the "NC Interactive Inc." that they are selling)
bottom of the city of heroes sunset page (http://www.cityofheroes.com/en/sunset.php) City of Heroes is copyright NC Interactive Inc.
whatever company that buys all these shares will annex "NC Interactive Inc.", along with City of Heroes and all the other past present and future IPs they hold, as their subsidiary.
tl;dr, it's clear, they are selling City of Heroes along with everything US-related. To who, remains a question. If it's another subsidiary, nothing new.
Now NC Interactive had a history of losing money according to the previous quarterly reports once the heyday of CoH and GW wore off until GW2 came out. That turnabout shows to me at least that moneys from box sales go though NC Interactive first, acting like a publisher. My point being that from now on, if NCSoft's various properties over here fail to pull in enough money to keep this new company open, oh well, it's not NCSoft's fault.
read the earnings report, NC Interactive is their biggest cash earner.
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Or it could be something as simple as them being aware that the NCSoft name is so poisoned in the US that they need to 'form a new company' to hide behind.
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For the record, this has not escaped my attention, but I literally just found out about it. I don't know exactly what it means, I'm still working on parsing it and figuring out what's going on. Obviously, if this presents an opportunity for City of Heroes to be acquired by a third party, we will be all over it. If not, we'll still keep on keepin' on.
(https://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa341/xXPixieBratXx/Forum%20Smileys/right_on-3622.gif)
They had to have been known about this before the announcement of the shutdown of CoX... just wish I knew what they know.
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Page 10 of NCSoft november 2012 global earnings report (http://global.ncsoft.com/global/ir/earnings.aspx): NC Interactive is a subsidiary of NCSoft (maybe that's not the "NC Interactive Inc." that they are selling)
bottom of the city of heroes sunset page (http://www.cityofheroes.com/en/sunset.php) City of Heroes is copyright NC Interactive Inc.
whatever company that buys all these shares will annex "NC Interactive Inc.", along with City of Heroes and all the other past present and future IPs they hold, as their subsidiary.
tl;dr, it's clear, they are selling City of Heroes along with everything US-related.
read the earnings report, NC Interactive is their biggest cash earner.
Let's try to keep the fonts Fun Sized, shall we? We have more than a few in the Bifocals Set, here.
It's still vague as to whether the sale is an actual sale or just a "clever" disguise for more of their supposed corporate restructuring.
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Let's try to keep the fonts Fun Sized, shall we? We have more than a few in the Bifocals Set, here.
It's still vague as to whether the sale is an actual sale or just a "clever" disguise for more of their supposed corporate restructuring.
Sorry about the size, should have bolded it instead, will be edited in a minute. But read the OP's link, they are selling all their shares, NC Interactive is their subsidiary, hence any investor who gets a lion's share of the shares... ahem (^^') will own the firm. At least as much as I understand capitalism.
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Or it could be something as simple as them being aware that the NCSoft name is so poisoned in the US that they need to 'form a new company' to hide behind.
As far as poisoned goes, one just needs to check out their Korean Facebook page: http://tinyurl.com/7njwdgc
They haven't updated in quite some time, nor replied to any of the venom posted there.
Let's try to keep the fonts Fun Sized, shall we? We have more than a few in the Bifocals Set, here.
It's still vague as to whether the sale is an actual sale or just a "clever" disguise for more of their supposed corporate restructuring.
Exactly what I was thinking.
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read the earnings report, NC Interactive is their biggest cash earner.
Yes in 3Q. In 2009 it loss 3,600 million KrW, in 2010 it loss 13,631 million KrW and in 2011 it loss 24,774 million KrW.
In 1Q in 2012 it loss 6,409 million KrW and 2Q it loss 7,798 million KrW. Even 3Q with it's huge sales, it loss 462 million KrW.
I have all of NCSoft's earnings reports mate. I'm looking at the Equity Method Gain/Loss which shows the profit/loss of each subsidiary. Having the biggest sales means little if you are spending more than you take in.
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Sorry about the size, should have bolded it instead, will be edited in a minute. But read the OP's link, they are selling all their shares, NC Interactive is their subsidiary, hence any investor who gets a lion's share of the shares... ahem (^^') will own the firm. At least as much as I understand capitalism.
That investor who owns the lion's share is NCsoft.
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I meant to put a smiley on that, Bison. Sorry. It's not like I'm a redname. I was mostly just yankin' your chain. ;)
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Okay, here's a better picture of what's going on. According to this (http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ko&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.mt.co.kr%2Fmtview.php%3Fno%3D2012121218182727196%26type%3D2%26sec%3Dtech) they are spinning off NC Interactive, ArenaNet and Carbine Studios into a holding company. The reason? "... a more rapid decision-making in the rapidly changing North American and European markets, further strengthen the independence and accountability of the organization is to go on ..." (pardon Google Translate's Engrish).
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I meant to put a smiley on that, Bison. Sorry. It's not like I'm a redname. I was mostly just yankin' your chain. ;)
No no no, it did look ugly when quoted. Size is an absolute attribute, and quoting lowers it, but anything in [size][/ size] gets put back to its size it seems. And nothing is printed in different inline sizes for a reason.
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Okay, here's a better picture of what's going on. According to this (http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ko&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.mt.co.kr%2Fmtview.php%3Fno%3D2012121218182727196%26type%3D2%26sec%3Dtech) they are spinning off NC Interactive, ArenaNet and Carbine Studios into a holding company. The reason? "... a more rapid decision-making in the rapidly changing North American and European markets, further strengthen the independence and accountability of the organization is to go on ..." (pardon Google Translate's Engrish).
I would wait for a better translation, but that's a possibility.
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Well the chart is rather self explanatory unless you are talking about the quote.
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Well the chart is rather self explanatory unless you are talking about the quote.
I'm talking about parts of the article. It could be that NC West already exists and they are selling them off (hence dash lines around NC Interactive) so that they are not independent anymore. The pair of OP links stated that NCSoft was selling 78 GKRW worth of shares and injecting 55 into new NCWest. The link between NCSoft and NC West is not the same as between NC West and NC Interactive, so that's still fuzzy.
here, try to read this (I can't):NCsoft West Holdings launched as NC Interactive and ArenaNet existing publishing organization and development studio incorporated as a holding company, and the step-by-step can be sold independently operated
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OK, but the most important question is...
Does this mean we get City back? And are we actually still paying NCSoft?
Just keeping it all in perspective. If we get Paragon back and can manage to drag Tabula Rasa and the others out with them, well then it's to the good. If this is all some sort of corporate money shuffle (as I expect) then we're not much better off than before.
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I wish I knew what this even means. Everyone I'm showing it to can't tell me if this is good or bad for us.
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"I wish I knew what this even means."
While I don't pretend to know the mysterious ways of the corporation, the fact that it produces a collective "huh?" says "smokescreen" to me.
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"I wish I knew what this even means."
While I don't pretend to know the mysterious ways of the corporation, the fact that it produces a collective "huh?" says "smokescreen" to me.
That's my read as well.
NCSoft IS a Nemesis Plot, the most evil, convoluted one ever.
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Does this mean we get City back? And are we actually still paying NCSoft?
I doubt it would be part of the plan. They could have kept the game operational and done the reshuffling. I suspect it has little impact on our plans in general, but as an opening for the Hail Mary plan, it might be useful.
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A copyright is a form of protection provided to the authors of "original works of authorship" including literary, dramatic, musical, artistic, and certain other intellectual works, both published and unpublished. The 1976 Copyright Act generally gives the owner of copyright the exclusive right to reproduce the copyrighted work, to prepare derivative works, to distribute copies or phonorecords of the copyrighted work, to perform the copyrighted work publicly, or to display the copyrighted work publicly. Copyrights are registered by the Copyright Office of the Library of Congress.
A trademark is a word, name, symbol or device which is used in trade with goods to indicate the source of the goods and to distinguish them from the goods of others. A servicemark is the same as a trademark except that it identifies and distinguishes the source of a service rather than a product. The terms "trademark" and "mark" are commonly used to refer to both trademarks and servicemarks. Trademark rights may be used to prevent others from using a confusingly similar mark, but not to prevent others from making the same goods or from selling the same goods or services under a clearly different mark. (Emphasis mine)
So a trademark might keep you from using the name "Paragon City", but NOT keep you from using "Titan City" to refer to the same exact product...
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Gut reaction: uh-oh. Not necessarily for us, just in general. I sense low-level panic pervading every part of NCSoftheaded, like so many forest animals scenting smoke on the wind.
Run, employees run!
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/me facepalms
...this can't end well.
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Guys, copyright and trademarks are meaningless at this point. For one, all the websites have those copyright stamps on them, even for content like Lineage or Aion that we know for certain belong to The Mothership company.
Second: even if they meant anything, we don't know how much transfering of assets they will do. The only thing that sparks any interest to me is that they are selling NCSoft Interactive, for it to be sold it needs some assets of it's own. CoH (being dead and all) will never justify the asking price, but I really doubt they plan to spin off Arena.net ownership entirely either.
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/me facepalms
...this can't end well.
So, what you're saying is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsXEToflqGs
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For the record, this has not escaped my attention, but I literally just found out about it. I don't know exactly what it means, I'm still working on parsing it and figuring out what's going on. Obviously, if this presents an opportunity for City of Heroes to be acquired by a third party, we will be all over it. If not, we'll still keep on keepin' on.
Once you find out what it all means, even if it isnt good, letting us know would be cool :) But no rush. Keep on keepin on, Tony. You rock.
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An obvious possibility, if this is a real attempt at setting up a Western-Focused company that will handle things with their own mindset and approach that is different than the parent company's successful Eastern approach (and not simply a smokescreen and/or numbers-shuffling bureaucratic ploy to make numbers look better and/or circumvent any possible bad-name they may have garnered)...
Then, it is possible (no knowing how likely or unlikely) that the decision-makers of this new entity could believe in reviving City Of Heroes and/or even selling it (no knowing if any of this would actually be their right and/or if it would need approval from NCSoft).
If it's a legitimate change, recognizing the failures of the Korean offices to market to the west, and if CoH is included in the acquisition, then it is possible that the decision-makers for the west will be more in favor of our desires.
Obviously, these are big ifs and we just don't know yet.
If CoH and associated IP and data is a part of this transaction... in a way... CoH has been sold! Hah. :roll: :P ;)
Wait and see...
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It will be interesting to see if this portends well for the west. It is more in keeping with how NCSoft has acted all through the years for it to be a case of them offloading their less desirable areas (EU and NA) onto a smokescreen corporation that will give them a name change and public perception change that they desperately need after years of treating EU and NA customers poorly. I wouldn't be surprised if it's just money shuffling from itself to itself in the end, with no noticeable difference on our end.
Even if it is, all this paperwork shuffling could really throw a monkey wrench into the works of trying to buy CoH's IP. At least the deal is going down in 12 days. And it sure sounds feasible that they shut down CoH because, if left running, it would have been an obstacle to all this paper shuffling.
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OK.... after looking at the chart thingy in the google translated korean site.... it seems what they are doing is selling NCSoft Interactive stock to NC West Holding, that in turn is fully owned by NCSoft Corp.
The entire "faster decision making" may be just bullocks. My two guesses:
A) Creating this company, in US soil, on top of the other 3, make it easier to set up a whole new more direct chain on command over the 3 US studios.
B) This is just a way to make easy the accounting process and us taxation. Now (potentially) it's only one tax entry.
C) Doooooom!!!
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I have it from an extremely reliable source that this "sale" is completely meaningless.
NCsoft is selling NCsoft West back to itself, and recreating it. So it's not a real sale, it's fake, and just a sale on paper only.
There is no change at all of IP. The new NCsoft West will be smaller than before, reporting directly to Korea.
This is of absolutely ZERO relevance to City of Heroes. No need to freak out, no need to celebrate.
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This is of absolutely ZERO relevance to City of Heroes. No need to freak out, no need to celebrate.
This plan however may be why they havent made any moves if they plan to.
This had to take a lot of doing, so they wouldn't much it up by worrying over selling a game they don't care about.
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This is of absolutely ZERO relevance to City of Heroes. No need to freak out, no need to celebrate.
I have zero hope in CoH returning, but for those interested in not giving up and still try to negotiate something, this means absolutely everything to their efforts.
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NCsucks can shuffle paper all they want; I just want CoX back!
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I have zero hope in CoH returning
I have 100% confidence in COH returning, through a community server, with updates from the community itself. Remember that many of our devs were players first, too. I see no reason why we wouldn't find creative people to make content again.
If you follow my Twitter, you'll see I've been already messing around with editing maps. New zones are completely possible, and hell will freeze twice over before we hit the limits of possible new NPCs with the costume creator.
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I just woke up to this, I had no idea.
And I have no clue.
Larry suggests:
A creative accounting move, I suspect.
Larry: "You can't sue us for anything, that company no longer exists!"
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I am almost as baffled as the baffled analyst in the Korea times article.
But to be fair, that's pretty much my default state.
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File me in the "Wut?" column.
On the plus side, paper shuffling of this sort may work to our advantage as far as community servers are concerned. I'd imagine it will be more difficult for them to prove ownership of any IP that may or may not be violated if they are busy dodging taxes.
Speaking of that, is that legal? It sounds like the sort of thing that's not legal. Of course, businesses probably get to do all kinds of things that would land me in federal prison. I can't make taxes go away by throwing stacks of paper at them. :-\
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Speaking of that, is that legal? It sounds like the sort of thing that's not legal. Of course, businesses probably get to do all kinds of things that would land me in federal prison. I can't make taxes go away by throwing stacks of paper at them. :-\
Bare in mind even if it isn't, proving that costs more capital than any of us have.
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Bare in mind even if it isn't, proving that costs more capital than any of us have.
Maybe. Maybe not.
Depends on if we find a relatively young, up-and-coming politically ambitious State Prosecutor in California interested in making his mark by investigating the shady dealings of a foreign company possibly involved in tax evasion and responsible for multiple job losses in the silicon valley tech sector.
Put a few of the right words in the right ears... Interesting things might happen.
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Maybe. Maybe not.
Depends on if we find a relatively young, up-and-coming politically ambitious State Prosecutor in California interested in making his mark by investigating the shady dealings of a foreign company possibly involved in tax evasion and responsible for multiple job losses in the silicon valley tech sector.
Put a few of the right words in the right ears... Interesting things might happen.
That's devious. And vicious. And mean.
I like the way you think. :)
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Maybe. Maybe not.
Depends on if we find a relatively young, up-and-coming politically ambitious State Prosecutor in California interested in making his mark by investigating the shady dealings of a foreign company possibly involved in tax evasion and responsible for multiple job losses in the silicon valley tech sector.
Put a few of the right words in the right ears... Interesting things might happen.
You would really have to have a boatload of proof first. We can't very well tell them to investigate NC for potential tax fraud because we don't like NCSoft and they shut down our favorite game. ;)
But I wonder if the "inside source" at NC Korea who told Fansy and VV that all ties are broken once the game closes *really* meant "after this deal goes through." ??? Things that make ya go "Hmmmmm." I wonder if Fansy has heard anything new. Maybe we should try and PM him after this December 24th deal goes down.
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I can *sometimes* speak Corporation. NCSoft is a particularly insane corporation, though, so it's more difficult to tell.
Anyway, what they're doing looks like they're dissolving the entire U.S. based subsidiary, and creating a new one as a stockholder of NCSoft. Stockholder as opposed to wholly owned subsidiary.
This serves three purposes:
1. It's pretty likely this means everyone working for NCSoft or Arenanet outside of Korea are now fired.
2. They're doing a ghost stock buy-back (creating a subsidiary to buy back stock, reducing the volume, and hopefully boosting the price), which looks better for their stock on the Korean side. I think that might be illegal in the U.S. to do that, but I guess it's completely legal there.
3. Gives an opportunity to anyone willing to deal in Korean currency who wants to buy out their U.S. operations.
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I'm fumbling blindly here--
Could this be a way to shed all of their NCSoft Interactive employees without providing a severance package?
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I would not put it past them. It's a perfect NCStupid move
Actually, I put nothing past corporations. I've worked for too many of them.
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Actually, I put nothing past corporations. I've worked for too many of them.
Ah, a kindred spirit!
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.....
This could be a way not only to shed all of their NCSoft Interactive employees without a severance package, but to rehire them at lower pay and with fewer benefits.
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.....
This could be a way not only to shed all of their NCSoft Interactive employees without a severance package, but to rehire them at lower pay and with fewer benefits.
What kind of evil company would do that?
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What kind of evil company would do that?
8)
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I can *sometimes* speak Corporation. NCSoft is a particularly insane corporation, though, so it's more difficult to tell.
Anyway, what they're doing looks like they're dissolving the entire U.S. based subsidiary, and creating a new one as a stockholder of NCSoft. Stockholder as opposed to wholly owned subsidiary.
This servers three purposes:
1. It's pretty likely this means everyone working for NCSoft or Arenanet outside of Korea are now fired.
2. They're doing a ghost stock buy-back (creating a subsidiary to buy back stock, reducing the volume, and hopefully boosting the price), which looks better for their stock on the Korean side. I think that might be illegal in the U.S. to do that, but I guess it's completely legal there.
3. Gives an opportunity to anyone willing to deal in Korean currency who wants to buy out their U.S. operations.
Allow me to amend my idea from above then.
Find a relatively young, up-and-coming politically ambitious Prosecutor. Could be a State prosecutor.
Or - if you want to REALLY get mean - an IRS investigator or one from the Federal Treasury Department!
See if the investigator in question might be interested in investigating the money shuffling of a foreign company possibly involved in insider trading and stock manipulation (And maybe tax evasion too. Worth looking into if you're looking for the other stuff too) and that if they are trying to manipulate their own stock on the sly, that as a direct result of that manipulation, they are responsible for dozens of job losses in the silicon valley tech sector.
Who said WE need the proof? Just point out to the investigator that NCSoft's money trail looks awfully weird. Maybe you might want to look into this?
If he or she looks into it and says "No - there's nothing there. What they're doing is perfectly legal by US and California law." Then hey - no harm, no foul.
But if they look into it and say, "Hey... that's strange..."
Well then. Well well well.
And JanessaVR? I appreciate the compliment. (bows)
But you know, I'm normally not a sneaky, devious vicious bastard.
Unless you MOTIVATE me.
Right now? I'm VERY motivated! >:(
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I can *sometimes* speak Corporation. NCSoft is a particularly insane corporation, though, so it's more difficult to tell.
Anyway, what they're doing looks like they're dissolving the entire U.S. based subsidiary, and creating a new one as a stockholder of NCSoft. Stockholder as opposed to wholly owned subsidiary.
This servers three purposes:
1. It's pretty likely this means everyone working for NCSoft or Arenanet outside of Korea are now fired.
2. They're doing a ghost stock buy-back (creating a subsidiary to buy back stock, reducing the volume, and hopefully boosting the price), which looks better for their stock on the Korean side. I think that might be illegal in the U.S. to do that, but I guess it's completely legal there.
3. Gives an opportunity to anyone willing to deal in Korean currency who wants to buy out their U.S. operations.
I can't imagine them getting away with firing all of ArenaNet's dev team. Do you know how hard it is for an entirely new team to pick up game code and run with it? I mean, they're going to have to hire somebody to carry on! And I've read somewhere or other (I think on the forums here) about ArenaNet having an escape clause built into their contracts where they could buy out their GW franchise if it came to that. AN just seems to savvy to let NCSoft totally tank them in one fell swoop like that. And they have never messed with them before.
Does Guild Wars 2 sell well in Korea and Asia, or only mainly in NA and EU? I thought the Asians were big into it too; GW1 was overrun with Koreans in the arenas back when it first came out anyway. I mean, why mess with success, especially so early on in GW2's lifespan. I'd imagine there are several expansions planned already.
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What kind of evil company would do that?
Most companies. There are some privately held companies that have a model where providing better pay and benefits for employees produces better quality work and motivated, loyal employees (Costco being one example), but most publicly held companies treat all employees as being essentially identical and thus providing the least amount of compensation possible is always the goal. NCsoft is one of the latter, but it's not so much evil per se as callous. As always there are exceptions. (NCsoft is not exceptional in this or any other manner.)
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Most companies. There are some privately held companies that have a model where providing better pay and benefits for employees produces better quality work and motivated, loyal employees (Costco being one example), but most publicly held companies treat all employees as being essentially identical and thus providing the least amount of compensation possible is always the goal. NCsoft is one of the latter, but it's not so much evil per se as callous. As always there are exceptions. (NCsoft is not exceptional in this or any other manner.)
Golden Girl was being facetious.
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Golden Girl was being facetious.
We really need a sarcasm emote
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how's this?
(https://i.imgur.com/2oBoTl.gif)
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We really need a sarcasm emote
So very, very true. I have found that < /sarcasm > works fairly well.
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OK.... after looking at the chart thingy in the google translated korean site.... it seems what they are doing is selling NCSoft Interactive stock to NC West Holding, that in turn is fully owned by NCSoft Corp.
The entire "faster decision making" may be just bullocks. My two guesses:
A) Creating this company, in US soil, on top of the other 3, make it easier to set up a whole new more direct chain on command over the 3 US studios.
B) This is just a way to make easy the accounting process and us taxation. Now (potentially) it's only one tax entry.
C) Doooooom!!!
First, Brits can't count! <does neener-neener dance>
Second, VV's quote from Larry won't transfer easily, here, but is there any evidence of that tactic working or not working? I know if, say, my wife dies, I'm not legally able to say, "Oh, sorry. That was in my wife's name." I know corporate law is an odd entity, and IANAL, but still.
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We're talking around $48 million US. Not really a lot of money.
On one hand you could say they are divesting themselves from the west and it may have been yet another corporate reason to shut down Paragon.
As for why do they say 50,500 million Vs billion, two reasons. First all business values are reported in either thousands or millions. Second, which probably explains the first, there is actually two definitions for billion, one thousand million and one million million. English speaking countries (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_scale#Current_usage) tend to use the first definition, the rest of Europe uses the second. However everybody agrees what a million is.
I'm thinking this. To reduce the valuation of the new company, and IF selling CoH's IP is in the cards, it's up to the subsidiary.
Now the "This closure means nothing concerning Arenanet and Carbide" makes a tiny bit more sense. But not by much. If this means what folks are reading this as (NCInteractive 100% US, wholly owned until unprofitable) it just changes who we yell at is all.
Of course, it wouldn't be the first time (or last... *peeks behind him* >.>) that I'm wrong.
Also, "NCsoft Corporation announced that it will establish a new wholly owned subsidiary in the United States to establish an entity which can be in charge of the United States and Europe businesses. The new entity, to be capitalized at KRW 50,500 million, will be mainly engaged in the management of the United States and Europe subsidiaries. The expected transaction settlement date is December 24, 2012. "
http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/036570.KS/key-developments/article/2658297 (http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/036570.KS/key-developments/article/2658297)
Still curious. Transaction settles before the end of the year. I wonder if the timing is significant to South Korea's reporting of taxation/securities documents. But as IANAEM (IANAL, except Economics major), I'll leave it to the pros to poke a stick at.
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well this is some very interesting and peculiar news
there are potentially a whole bunch of ways in which this could go and what it could mean
if we play our cards right, have some luck, we may be able to bring back coh sooner than we thought
on the other hand this could just lock coh tighter in ncsofts grasp
definitely having a wait and see attitude with this
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.....
This could be a way not only to shed all of their NCSoft Interactive employees without a severance package, but to rehire them at lower pay and with fewer benefits.
My brother in law works for a company that does that. They own three separate chains of grocery stores, and every few years they close down the store he works at, and reopen it the next day under one of the other chains. All the employees get let go from the old company and immediately hired to the new one... losing any accrued payraises and seniority benefits in the process. Combine that with tax savings, the ability to rewrite contracts if they feel like it, and an excuse to get rid of any employees they don't like without needing a valid reason to fire them, and the company really cleans up when they do this kind of stuff.
I could say more, but every word I want to use would just get changed to "pancake". >:(
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So this whole plan is confusing me but could it be a way to shed shareholders? Make them answerable to no one but the parent company?
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Disclaimer: While I *am* an IRS employee, I write technical training manuals. I am not well versed in corporate tax law.
*enables the Olantern Signal, who is a corporate tax lawyer*
Okay, from the very basic face of things, and remember I am not well versed, this is not illegal. Many companies do this kind of restructuring.
Taxes owed are taxes owed. Regardless if a company no longer exists, when they go into bankruptcy there is a tiered payment of who gets paid first once all assests are liquidated. Taxes are up at the top. Since this is a sale, though, I am not certain how the tax code for the subsidiary of a foreign corporation would apply.
Maybe Olantern could elucidate.
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I mentioned this to a friend and ex CoHer who works in the city of London, he said that there were some changes to capital gains tax (not sure where) coming in Jan 1 that might be relevant to this.
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As I said, the corporate world is foreign to me.
I do have some specific knowledge of how shady businesses operate, unfortunately.
The pattern is consistent: set up shop in some office, fill it with classy-looking furniture. Rip some people off. Move to a new office and file a new DBA... in sum, change the company name and location without changing personnel or M.O. Their people, well-scrubbed con artists with pearly white teeth, tend to change their names a lot as well.
The fact that so many cleverer people than me are scratching their heads about this says "obfuscation, escape, cuttlefish-ink" to me. If I ran a gaming company at the center of a "pancake-storm" like the one we've conjured, I'd be playing obfuscatory games too.
Don't be surprised if NCSoft changes its name by the end of next year.
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Its like they bought a copy of "Infamy for Dummies", along with a copy of "How to generate loathing in your customer base".
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So I am still a tiny bit confused. What does this mean exactly? They are selling off everything they have that is not in South Korea or Japan to whomever will buy it?
I read a little bit from the comments but does that complicate or relax the ability to get cox back?
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Honestly they are putting all their western eggs in one basket, a new wholly own subsidiary that now "owns" two of their previous wholly own subsidiary and one western studio. Now if push comes to shove they could sell off all of their western assets in one fell swoop.
Now whether or not there's going to be more local control or this is just a way to formalize what was called "NCSoft West", which wasn't an actual separate entity from a subsidiary basis, who knows.
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So I am still a tiny bit confused. What does this mean exactly? They are selling off everything they have that is not in South Korea or Japan to whomever will buy it?
I read a little bit from the comments but does that complicate or relax the ability to get cox back?
No, they didn't put it up for sale for anyone who would buy it. They are basically spinning off those concerns into their own subsidiary, but one still wholly owned by NCSoft.
Say hello to the new Boss. Same as the old boss. Really.
As for what it means for CoX. Its way too early to tell.
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Muhahahahahaha! Celie's curse (from the Color Purple) seems appropriate for NCSoft here...
"I curse you. Until you do right by The CoH players everything you think about is gonna crumble...
Until you do right by The CoH community, everything you even think about gonna fail..."
(Or at least, may the fleas of a thousand camels rest in your crotchal area, and may you suffer early transmission failure on the freeway at rush hour!
(https://i.imgur.com/GgRbT.gif)
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(https://i.imgur.com/GgRbT.gif)
I agree with your curse completely.
To agree more completely, please allow me to know the source of this animation.
Its for curse science.
>.>
<.<
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I mentioned this to a friend and ex CoHer who works in the city of London, he said that there were some changes to capital gains tax (not sure where) coming in Jan 1 that might be relevant to this.
I believe we're calling it the "fiscal cliff" here in the US. We like to attach misleading and grandiose names to things.
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The future is unknown and unknowable.
If I can take the statement at face value, ownership of CoH IP is still with NCSoft. But, since the new company owns all the online game stuff, they will essentially own the CoH IP.
However, sometimes black is gray. We'll just have to wait until Christmas to find out.
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I believe we're calling it the "fiscal cliff" here in the US. We like to attach misleading and grandiose names to things.
They do the same in Korea:
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=na.cityofheroes.com%2Fglobal%2Fincludes%2Fimages%2Ftemplate-items%2Fheadings%2Ffreedom.jpg)
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They do the same in Korea:
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=na.cityofheroes.com%2Fglobal%2Fincludes%2Fimages%2Ftemplate-items%2Fheadings%2Ffreedom.jpg)
I wish I could say that I was mocking that. Well played. :)
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Well played, Golden Girl.
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man, they are really doing a lot of re-aligning(ms) for real.
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Whatever they're up to, it reeks of smokescreen and shady tactics. They're up to something.
Shout louder.
Here's some music to get you in the right mindset.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfmvLmr6bTU
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Whatever they're up to, it reeks of smokescreen and shady tactics. They're up to something.
Shout louder.
Here's some music to get you in the right mindset.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfmvLmr6bTU
i agree with this, if they just posted that this realignment WONT be affecting their other western market titles in any way, this brings back the question of why they shut coh down in the first place
theres definitely something on a deeper level at work here
this is one of those times that some insider insight would be very useful lol
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Yes, basically that. And that's why all this is upsetting.
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(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=gifs.gifbin.com%2F082012%2F1343849002_mechanical_shell_game_player.gif)
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Don't know if anyone did already but I tipped the links in the OP to Massively, making sure to credit the OP for posting them here first.
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To agree more completely, please allow me to know the source of this animation.
Its for curse science.
>.>
<.<
I believe she is actually a lawyer from a Japanese movie...she is pointing at the accused and calling for justice.
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I believe she is actually a lawyer from a Japanese movie...she is pointing at the accused and calling for justice.
It's not Gyakuten Saiban related, is it? (This being known in the West as the Ace Attorney series.)
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It very well may be!
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So in other words, right after killing PS for (supposedly) under-performing, everyone is now being given the kind of freedom that PS should've had the whole time.
Yeah... which only helps reinforce my suspicion that the killing of PS/CoH had more to do with spite and malice than any sort of cold-blooded business decision.
It could help explain the peculiar abruptness of the shutdown (one week after a major powerset release, two weeks before the release of I24). This move must have been in the works for months, unless NCsoft thinks they can succeed by making up their business plans as they go along.
Whoever felt that it was absolutely necessary for CoH to cease to exist would've felt the need to act fast... City of Heroes, being their most Western-themed game (superheroes & supervillains battling over America's East Coast), would have been a perfect cornerstone title for a new division designed specifically to serve the Western market.
If the game-changing I24 had been allowed to come out, the attention from the gaming media (not to mention new & returning subscribers), combined with CoH's new status as the gold-star title of the new Western division, might have made it impossible to ever put a knife in its back.
I'm just sayin'!
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Does Guild Wars 2 sell well in Korea and Asia, or only mainly in NA and EU? I thought the Asians were big into it too; GW1 was overrun with Koreans in the arenas back when it first came out anyway. I mean, why mess with success, especially so early on in GW2's lifespan. I'd imagine there are several expansions planned already.
:D
They just published an info about banning 34.000 botter accounts, so actually I think there is no Asian left.
;D
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/mike-lewis-on-the-war-against-the-bots/
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It boggles the mind as to why they would shut down half of their western profits before starting a new company to handle that market. Seems like they are shooting themselves in the foot or purposely trying to make that company fail. I just don't get it.
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Well they figure the world is ending in 8 days so lets get rid of the Yankee dogs.
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It boggles the mind as to why they would shut down half of their western profits before starting a new company to handle that market. Seems like they are shooting themselves in the foot or purposely trying to make that company fail. I just don't get it.
Maybe they learned from the City of Heroes incident that they really don't know jack shit about the Western market. This would be perhaps an emergency reaction to (1) major negative public feedback from the way CoH was closed, and (2) their stock prices hit an even new low.
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Yeah... which only helps reinforce my suspicion that the killing of PS/CoH had more to do with spite and malice than any sort of cold-blooded business decision.
I've long had a guess that Paragon was shut down because one person there didn't follow an explicit order from NCSoft corporate. Could have been an order to meet an unrealistic sales forecast by a certain date, and Paragon almost made it but not quite. Could have been that, and NC changed its mind and said it's not enough, you're gone anyhow. Could have been a staffing requirement Paragon thought was open for debate.
Either way, because of the way the announcement was handled, and the business manager's reaction, I get the distinct feeling that Paragon was indeed shut down out of spite. Like an exec sacrificing it to show other subsidiaries that their orders are not flexible, and not up for debate. At least in part, anyway (because being the most expensive game to run, it's easy to justify punishing Paragon from a stockholder point of view).
Made sense even more during the buyout negotiations because of NC throwing in ridiculous demands just to humiliate the Paragon business manager when they had no intention to sell. It's like they were driving home their point again; you defied us, and now you, all of your co-workers, and all your players must pay.
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I would just like to point out that tax evasion (illegal) and tax avoidance (legal) are two separate things. Local, national, and international companies do have to strategize on how to best organize themselves such that they aren't unnecessarily taxed and they pay tremendous amounts of money to firms like PWC (Price, Waterhouse, and Coopers), Deloitte, KPMG, and E&Y (Ernst and Young), among others, to figure that out -- it's not something that a firm typically does on its own. Those firms have dedicated accounting consultant divisions/firms for this type of work, aside from preparing returns. In addition, they provide auditing services and it is typical that if the firm is providing tax accounting work, then they cannot do the auditing (conflict of interest). In the case of NCsoft, it appears that they've retained Deloitte for that auditing piece (since Deloitte prepared the 2011 independent audit); please note, the accounting prep part can be confidential, at least the firm can't disclose NCsoft as a client.
All of this, the accounting and organization piece, is highly (HIGHLY) regulated and the fact that they have Deloitte doing the auditng should be an indicator of a relatively high level of legitimacy. For those calling shenanigans and fantasizing about prosecuting, I'm just trying to temper expectations. Yes, the timing is "interesting", but please don't pin all of your hopes on this.
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It boggles the mind as to why they would shut down half of their western profits before starting a new company to handle that market. Seems like they are shooting themselves in the foot or purposely trying to make that company fail. I just don't get it.
Didn't CoH report directly to NCSoft Korea, instead of reporting to NCWest like Aion NA, the Guild Wars franchise and Lineage 2 NA do? If so, maybe once they got the idea for this new wholly-owned subsidiary deal going, they shut CoH down so it wouldn't impede the transfer of NCInteractive? It would certainly somewhat explain their knee-jerk, brutal closure of CoH out of nowhere. It wouldn't justify any of it to be sure, but it would explain why it happened how it happened to a degree.
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Didn't CoH report directly to NCSoft Korea, instead of reporting to NCWest like Aion NA, the Guild Wars franchise and Lineage 2 NA do? If so, maybe once they got the idea for this new wholly-owned subsidiary deal going, they shut CoH down so it wouldn't impede the transfer of NCInteractive? It would certainly somewhat explain their knee-jerk, brutal closure of CoH out of nowhere. It wouldn't justify any of it to be sure, but it would explain why it happened how it happened to a degree.
I was thinking this.
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Didn't CoH report directly to NCSoft Korea, instead of reporting to NCWest like Aion NA, the Guild Wars franchise and Lineage 2 NA do? If so, maybe once they got the idea for this new wholly-owned subsidiary deal going, they shut CoH down so it wouldn't impede the transfer of NCInteractive? It would certainly somewhat explain their knee-jerk, brutal closure of CoH out of nowhere. It wouldn't justify any of it to be sure, but it would explain why it happened how it happened to a degree.
Doesn't work, because they could have just as easily still closed Paragon, but transferred CoH itself to the new division. They did it before actually - Paragon used to be part of NCSoft West.
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That changes everything. They shoulda just said 50.5 billion and then I wouldn't have been stupid.
It's an artifact of there being two different numbering systems, the 'short scale' and the 'long scale'. In the short scale system, each named unit is 1,000 times the next lower unit -- so a million is 1,000,000, a billion is 1,000,000,000, a trillion is 1,000,000,000,000, etc. -- while in the long scale system, each named unit is 1,000,000 times the next lower unit -- so a million is still 1,000,000, but a billion is 1,000,000,000,000 and a trillion is 1,000,000,000,000,000,000. (in the long scale system, a thousand million is a 'milliard', which was later extended by construction of a 'billiard' being a thousand billion and a 'trilliard' being a thousand trillion.
Reporting a number as 50,500 million avoids confusion over the base unit in countries that use the long scale system, although that usage introduces an additional complication -- in Europe, Russia, South America, and several other countries, the decimal separator is a comma, which makes "50,500" read as 'fifty and one half', not 'fifty thousand five hundred'.
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For the record, this has not escaped my attention, but I literally just found out about it. I don't know exactly what it means, I'm still working on parsing it and figuring out what's going on. Obviously, if this presents an opportunity for City of Heroes to be acquired by a third party, we will be all over it. If not, we'll still keep on keepin' on.
Not only that, it gives additional leverage in that City of Heroes has to be only a part of the value of NCSoft Interactive, placing a pretty solid upper limit on the price they can set on the IP and not get laughed away from the bargaining table as being utterly clueless and out of touch with reality.
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1. It's pretty likely this means everyone working for NCSoft or Arenanet outside of Korea are now fired.
Not now. If they're following Korean practice, the pink slips will fall out of the sky unannounced on the 21st, with the new company forming on the following Monday, possibly with covert offers to 'critical' employees for jobs in the 'new' company.
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Just as the statement posted by Kromede stated - This has NO effect on NCWest, Carbine, or Arena Net, or any of our games that are live or in development. Key words - no effect.
As someone stated above - this is paperwork basically. At the bottom of all of our webpages you will notice the copyright for NC Interactive - that's us - what we normally refer to NCWest. We are *already* a wholly-owned subsidary - have been since 2000, when we launched Lineage in beta. All this does is that the shares will be held differently. The article in Reuters makes it out to sound like something totally different. Honestly, we were surprised to see this sort of news about it, because its truly not very newsworthy at all. Since it has been stressed to us that this is in effect a "no change" I do not believe that this will affect Aion EU, but we have no official statement regarding that.
this is what Nyx has just said over on aion NA forums today
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I'll tell you what it DID do - it either fooled a bunch of people into buying their stock, or that stock jump is THEM buying their own stock.
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I'll tell you what it DID do - it either fooled a bunch of people into buying their stock, or that stock jump is THEM buying their own stock.
yes there stock jump was big after this was released.
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I'll tell you what it DID do - it either fooled a bunch of people into buying their stock, or that stock jump is THEM buying their own stock.
I think they are buying their own stock. Unscientific opinion: I just have this funny feeling that its them. There is something just toooooo squirrelly about all this.
Will wait to see what happens over about the next six months or so.
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First, Brits can't count! <does neener-neener dance>
Good thing I'm not a brit :P (and C was added for fun, not a real thought in a final edit :p)
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Some interesting posts on Facebook.
ok.. this one is new.. they closed at 149K on Friday, and opened at 152.5K on Monday morning.. meaning someone bought some shares over the weekend, and a LOT of shares. Their volume also increased at the same time, meaning that people are offloading shares (ie, there's more available on the market), yet the price has creeped up another 6500. This is not a stable share by any stretch of the means, and I'm wondering if the Korean markets are in the know of something we don't know. Anyone have the stock information on Nexon?
[/b]
price up 500, but volume down over 100K from yesterday.. someone's buying up the stock in massive quantities.. I'd wager we'll see a take-over notice in the papers soon!
possible, it could be part of the reason why Paragon and NCSoft in Seattle were closed down or downsized. Getting rid of overhead to make the company an attractive buy. Or NCSoft could be buying back their outstanding shares in an attempt to drive the price back up. Who knows?
I'd wager it was the first part.. or actually their attempt at keeping some money in house, which is a really dumb move since CoX was making money. The thought of them buying their own stocks doesn't make sense if their loosing money to me. I'd say someone's getting antsy to own that nifty NCSoft logo and take over their more investible properties.
Volume is not particularly high. Market analysis is tricky. If you look at a graph it can start to repeat the shapes. OR NOT. If it repeats it will be bumpy (up and down) a while longer then bump down. To understand when/if that will happen you need to look at financial repaort, etc. Avoid the CEO statement, unless you just wanta laugh.
Someone pushed the stock prices up a bit on Friday with a massive last minute buy of over 2/3rd's of the available stock, which means they've got really deep pockets. THis latest bump looks like some investors are offloading.. we'll see how far it tanks tomorrow and how the volume looks... but it's obvious someone is buying up shares in large amounts here and there.. letting the price settle.. then buying again.. it's a typical buyout strategy for when you want controlling interest of a company. and.. just an FYI.. 170K stocks is less than 1% of NCSoft's available, so it's not even a voting stake in the company.
C, Kris.... I believe you are right in someone is intentionally driving down the stock and purchasing it at rock bottom prices. I hope that when Nexon takes over NCSoft they decide to sell NC's titles that don't fit into their micropay/microtime scale and I hope another company snatches up CoH
Sadly, NCSoft's stock went WAY up today as a result of this... (I figured it would...) Sigh...
price goes up AND volume goes up? THat's some serious market manipulation there. Volume is shares AVAILABLE to purchase, when the volume goes up, the price generally DROPS. Seeing the volume AND the price go up is a serious sign of market-manipulation. It's based on supply and demand.. you don't see the price of tofu going up because someone made a bunch more of it. Just basic business sense says that something seriously fishy is going on here.
Even with the price going up 5k, it is still hovering a the bottom of the scale. I think they are setting themselves up purposefully for a Nexon buyout/takeover, so the execs who will surely be fired by shareholders can sell they're stock at a major profit after the takeover/during the takeover, Oppan Enron Style...
Today.. Stocks up 9K to 155K, Volume UP 30K to 410K shares available... yeah.. this is the exec's looking to dump out FAST, I'm not buying that media blitz about them opening up a North American company either, the only way that happens is with COST, which drives stock prices and volume DOWN, not up.
[/size]
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Didn't CoH report directly to NCSoft Korea, instead of reporting to NCWest like Aion NA, the Guild Wars franchise and Lineage 2 NA do? If so, maybe once they got the idea for this new wholly-owned subsidiary deal going, they shut CoH down so it wouldn't impede the transfer of NCInteractive? It would certainly somewhat explain their knee-jerk, brutal closure of CoH out of nowhere. It wouldn't justify any of it to be sure, but it would explain why it happened how it happened to a degree.
No, Carbine reported to NCSoft Korea, Paragon reported to NC Interactive. At least according to the last org chart NCSoft released.
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Reading this thread makes me think of an exchange from the Simpsons.
"Mom, is dad gonna kill us?"
"We're just gonna have to wait and see."
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Massively got the tip published. (http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/12/13/ncsoft-to-sell-all-shares-of-nc-interactive-establish-new-ameri/) I did give credit to the OP here in my submission, but it didn't go through in the article.
In any case, the word is out there.
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I just woke up to this, I had no idea.
And I have no clue.
Larry suggests:
The thing is, there is a legal concept of "successor of interest".
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I'm fumbling blindly here--
Could this be a way to shed all of their NCSoft Interactive employees without providing a severance package?
Not sure. Maybe.
What I'm seeing in this.
They're selling it for 73 million.
They're investing the new company with 50 million.
Okay. What do we call that other 23 million?
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What kind of evil company would do that?
From first-hand experience?
http://www.luhs.org/
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My brother in law works for a company that does that. They own three separate chains of grocery stores, and every few years they close down the store he works at, and reopen it the next day under one of the other chains. All the employees get let go from the old company and immediately hired to the new one... losing any accrued payraises and seniority benefits in the process. Combine that with tax savings, the ability to rewrite contracts if they feel like it, and an excuse to get rid of any employees they don't like without needing a valid reason to fire them, and the company really cleans up when they do this kind of stuff.
I could say more, but every word I want to use would just get changed to "pancake". >:(
Yeah. That's a lawsuit waiting to happen.
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Okay. What do we call that other 23 million?
A nice, tidy sum to retire on? Reinforcement for several golden parachutes? Sounds to me like somebody is getting ready to bail.
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23-million-dollar Force Field Generator for protection against bad PR from CoH gamers.
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Not sure what this means for us:
"NCsoft Corporation announced that it will sell its entire 809 million shares of NC Interactive Inc., which is mainly engaged in the online game service, for KRW 78,348,368,000, on December 24, 2012, for newly establishing company."
http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/036570.KS/key-developments/article/2658283 (http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/036570.KS/key-developments/article/2658283)
Also, "NCsoft Corporation announced that it will establish a new wholly owned subsidiary in the United States to establish an entity which can be in charge of the United States and Europe businesses. The new entity, to be capitalized at KRW 50,500 million, will be mainly engaged in the management of the United States and Europe subsidiaries. The expected transaction settlement date is December 24, 2012. "
http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/036570.KS/key-developments/article/2658297 (http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/036570.KS/key-developments/article/2658297)
Do they just blindfold themselves and throw darts at a board to make decisions or what?
So they're raising capital and establishing a new subsidiary to manage US(/NA?) and Europe subisidaries (of which they have.. 2? now) - why are they doing this when they already have a subsidiary that does this? (NCsoft West)
Brain. Hurts.
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This is why sometimes you just wait for all of the SSA to be released before you play, waiting for the payoff is...
What?
Right. Reality. Got it.
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A nice, tidy sum to retire on? Reinforcement for several golden parachutes? Sounds to me like somebody is getting ready to bail.
Maybe one silver parachute. 23 million is not a lot if you look at what some other companies are giving to their execs.
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They're probably giving money to competent execs who have half a clue as to their customer demographic, share-holders preferences and an ability to communicate plus make decisions which don't seem to be made by a three year old having a tantrum.
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in the long scale system, a thousand million is a 'milliard', which was later extended by construction of a 'billiard' being a thousand billion and a 'trilliard' being a thousand trillion.
As an interesting historical side note, this is how a billiard table got its name. When the game was first conceived, it was supposed to be played with 1,000,000,000,000,000 balls. After several years of emptying out quarries and spending vast sums of money and resources in preparation for the first game, the rule was rethought and didn't make it all the way to the final draft of the rules. But by that time, of course, the name stuck.
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This is why sometimes you just wait for all of the SSA to be released before you play, waiting for the payoff is...
What?
Right. Reality. Got it.
;D
Tradepaperback, please!
;D
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As an interesting historical side note, this is how a billiard table got its name. When the game was first conceived, it was supposed to be played with 1,000,000,000,000,000 balls. After several years of emptying out quarries and spending vast sums of money and resources in preparation for the first game, the rule was rethought and didn't make it all the way to the final draft of the rules. But by that time, of course, the name stuck.
Tony, you really like my facepalm image, don't you...
(https://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k248/ygmypay/EK_facepalm01Ab.jpg)
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As an interesting historical side note, this is how a billiard table got its name. When the game was first conceived, it was supposed to be played with 1,000,000,000,000,000 balls. After several years of emptying out quarries and spending vast sums of money and resources in preparation for the first game, the rule was rethought and didn't make it all the way to the final draft of the rules. But by that time, of course, the name stuck.
"Are you suggesting that coconuts MIGRATE?"
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"Are you suggesting that coconuts MIGRATE?"
"Not at all. They could be carried."
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Yeah. That's a lawsuit waiting to happen.
It's Canadian law we'd be talking here, so there might be differences that make it not-illegal. Or maybe he was exaggerating or misunderstanding the situation... either way, no-one sued over it that I know of. Maybe they just didn't realize they'd have a case.
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You know... I though I was being creative when I was designing Santiago-Yuri, my evil corporate conglomerate for the Phoenix Project. As one of their chief illicit tactics, I cited blaming crimes on a subsidiary, gutting it, firing everybody then buying up the assets through another subsidiary as a means of dodging litigation.
It appears I need to try harder, huh?
-
;D
Tradepaperback, please!
;D
I love trade papers! :D
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"Not at all. They could be carried."
"What? A swallow carrying a coconut?"
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Yeah... which only helps reinforce my suspicion that the killing of PS/CoH had more to do with spite and malice than any sort of cold-blooded business decision.
It could help explain the peculiar abruptness of the shutdown (one week after a major powerset release, two weeks before the release of I24). This move must have been in the works for months, unless NCsoft thinks they can succeed by making up their business plans as they go along.
Whoever felt that it was absolutely necessary for CoH to cease to exist would've felt the need to act fast... City of Heroes, being their most Western-themed game (superheroes & supervillains battling over America's East Coast), would have been a perfect cornerstone title for a new division designed specifically to serve the Western market.
If the game-changing I24 had been allowed to come out, the attention from the gaming media (not to mention new & returning subscribers), combined with CoH's new status as the gold-star title of the new Western division, might have made it impossible to ever put a knife in its back.
I'm just sayin'!
Interesting... *rubs chin*
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First of all, NC Interactive's "stock" was in penny range territory of 96 KrW per share or about $0.09 cents a share (total $73 million dollars). Remember this is NC Interactive's stock NOT NCSoft proper. Now they sold it to this new wholly owned subsidiary as well as funding it with another $47 million US.
Now they didn't dissolve or liquidate NC Interactive. They simply have new "owners" who just happen to be owned by their old "owners". What they made is a holding company. Berkshire Hathaway is an example of a holding company, a company that simply owns stock in other companies, they don't even need to be majority shareholders in those other companies. Now I'm not sure what NCSoft is up too with the extra layer of wholly owned subsidiary in their organization other than lumping all their western operations under one roof so they could drop it like a gecko's tail or put the whole western operation up for sale or partnership.
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I read through every page of this topic.
... Guh.
This is an insane twist of events, and amazingly confusing at the same time. I can't put my finger on what EXACTLY is going on, other than NCSoft is manipulating the market somehow, or someone is PAYING them to make a new subsidiary.
I hope this event is in our favor, rather than in the other direction, for CoX's revival or purchase.
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My guess would be this is the most ironic occurrence of the phrase 'tabula rasa' that I've ever seen...
By tabula rasa in this case I'm not referring to the game NCsoft murdered, but rather the original phrase meaning "blank slate". Seems to me this is the manifestation of that "realignment of focus" they were blathering about back when they announced the closure of CoH.
We don't know exactly what the legal doodads behind the scene with the CoH IP were. VV has alluded to them of course, in that she knew the web of legal ties attached to CoH would be severed when the game closed.
So here's what I reckon.
NCsoft knew their western operation was mostly in the toilet. 4 closed MMOs does not make for happy reading if your plan is to "realign your focus" into a brave new world of Nexon-NCsoft collaboration. But, on the flipside, if you've closed 4, what extra harm is there in making it 5 if the fifth also takes a bunch of annoying legal issues with it too?
With CoH axed, this new Holding company becomes NCsoft's new puppetmaster in the west. One of the things that amused me in the linked article was the implication this change would lead to more rapid decision making in western matters. Call me cynical, but to me, that translated in my mind as "total control by HQ in Korea rather than having to continually put up with attempted western interference in our way of doing business".
To do this, you'd need a core figure pulling those strings, controlling those western operations (including GW2 and Carbine Studios) from on high. A sort of localised clone version of NCsoft's Korean HQ. I'm guessing Kim Taek-jin's missus for the starring role in this. Not just because she's his missus, but because she's an MIT graduate and so (in theory at least) is not west-naive.
So you have a shiny new operation in the west. All the embarrassments of the past (especially the Garriott business!) have been swept away along with the old name, that failed organisation with its failed practices, all disposed of and replaced with an entirely new set up. All eyes can now look to the future!
Yes. Quite.
Of course, it's extremely unlikely to actually pan out that way in the real world. Changing the name of the operation in the US may be sufficient for the consumers and investors back in Korea, but unless NCsoft really do intend to change business practices in America (which as I've said above, I actually expect the opposite to be true and NC Holdings will be run even more like a domestic Korean business, not less), then I see no reason why NC Holdings shouldn't suffer exactly the same failings as its predecessor.
Only worse.
What are we in all this? The loyal fans of CoH?
Half of me still thinks the death of CoH was 'collateral damage' in some nebulous future vision NCsoft has for its operation in the west. Not hacked down with malice but rather because it had stringy sinewy bits attached that would get in the way of a nice, surgical amputation and transplantation of NC Interactive's head onto the new NC Holdings body.
Remember the infamous phrases "a realignment of company focus and publishing support" and "the continued support of the franchise no longer fits with our long-term goals for the company". In that light, those corporate doublespeak phrases actually do make a sort of sense at last.
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None of which excuses their bullshit, Turjan. They will release the IP to responsible hands, or we will make sure they pay dearly for it. Paragon City will return. One way or another.
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None of which excuses their bullshit, Turjan.
No one is saying anything NCSoft is doing has any excuse.
Let's try to take everything said here with a grain of salt, and remember people are only here, taking the time to talk here, because they care about CoH.
And while I'm not a prude about language, let's try to avoid outright swearing at eachother not because of keeping it PG or anything, but because using strong words with eachother, even directed at a third party, makes everything sound and feel nastier than it is.
I agree with you. We will get Paragon City back.
As a united front. :)
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As a united front. :)
Speak for yourself. I see us as a united backside, mooning NCSoft until they crack like an egg.
...
Or is that just me then? ;)
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mooning NCSoft until they crack...
I see what you did there... ;D
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Aw shucks, you noticed! 8)
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Speak for yourself. I see us as a united backside, mooning NCSoft until they crack like an egg.
...
Or is that just me then? ;)
Well to make an omelet you have to crack a few eggs, and Paragon did have two moons! :D
wait...
>.> New metaphor time.
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Yeah... which only helps reinforce my suspicion that the killing of PS/CoH had more to do with spite and malice than any sort of cold-blooded business decision.
It could help explain the peculiar abruptness of the shutdown (one week after a major powerset release, two weeks before the release of I24). This move must have been in the works for months, unless NCsoft thinks they can succeed by making up their business plans as they go along.
Whoever felt that it was absolutely necessary for CoH to cease to exist would've felt the need to act fast... City of Heroes, being their most Western-themed game (superheroes & supervillains battling over America's East Coast), would have been a perfect cornerstone title for a new division designed specifically to serve the Western market.
If the game-changing I24 had been allowed to come out, the attention from the gaming media (not to mention new & returning subscribers), combined with CoH's new status as the gold-star title of the new Western division, might have made it impossible to ever put a knife in its back.
I'm just sayin'!
Or maybe they just learned something from all of this and is trying to set things right. If they repeat process as same way they did PS, people would be screaming that they are at it again. Now if they dont, then they are still damned it seems.
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"What? A swallow carrying a coconut?"
It could grip it by the husk!
-
It could grip it by the husk!
"It's not a question of where e' grips it! It's a simple question of weight ratios! A 5 ounce bird could not carry a one pound coconut!"
(we're having way too much fun with this tangent, aren't we? ^.^)
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"It's not a question of where e' grips it! It's a simple question of weight ratios! A 5 ounce bird could not carry a one pound coconut!"
(we're having way too much fun with this tangent, aren't we? ^.^)
"It could be carried by an African swallow!"
tee hee(https://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa341/xXPixieBratXx/Forum%20Smileys/Holidays/north_pole-1715.gif)
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"It could be carried by an African swallow!"
tee hee
"Oh yeah! An African Swallow maybe, but not a European Swallow, that's my point. And then of course African Swallows are non-migratory, so they couldn't bring a coconut back anyway!"
(Don't worry about us completely derailing the thread, folks, we're about to run out of sketch anyway. ^.^; )
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"Oh yeah! An African Swallow maybe, but not a European Swallow, that's my point. And then of course African Swallows are non-migratory, so they couldn't bring a coconut back anyway!"
(Don't worry about us completely derailing the thread, folks, we're about to run out of sketch anyway. ^.^; )
"Wait a minute... supposing two swallows carried it together?"
:D
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"Wait a minute... supposing two swallows carried it together?"
:D
"Nah... they'd have to have it on a line."
-
"Nah... they'd have to have it on a line."
"Well, simple! They'd just use a standard creeper!"
-
"What, held under the dorsal guiding feathers?"
-
"Well, why not?"
(And scene! ... I now return you to your regular forum subject)
(https://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa341/xXPixieBratXx/Forum%20Smileys/spinquisition.gif)
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But the question really is...
What is the air speed velocity of an unladen swallow?
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But the question really is...
What is the air speed velocity of an unladen swallow?
African or ...
AAAAAAAAH
-
You know... I though I was being creative when I was designing Santiago-Yuri, my evil corporate conglomerate for the Phoenix Project. As one of their chief illicit tactics, I cited blaming crimes on a subsidiary, gutting it, firing everybody then buying up the assets through another subsidiary as a means of dodging litigation.
It appears I need to try harder, huh?
Yeah, you do. The statists in our government have been using that tactic for a while now on the private sector in the US. It's hardly novel. :P
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Yeah, you do. The statists in our government have been using that tactic for a while now on the private sector in the US. It's hardly novel. :P
How dare you rerail this thread. Kinda. With a slightly less derailed derail. Or something. :-\
Ni!
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How dare you rerail this thread. Kinda. With a slightly less derailed derail. Or something. :-\
Ni!
Taggart Transcontinental, de-railed then re-railed by Rearden Metal!
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For those who TRULY wish to know....
http://style.org/unladenswallow/ (http://style.org/unladenswallow/) Airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow
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wheres zwill when you need him to constantly derail something? lol
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How dare you rerail this thread. Kinda. With a slightly less derailed derail. Or something. :-\
Ni!
I know, right? Here are the rest of us, enjoying a perfectly pleasant conversation about avian carrying capacities and cargo storage techniques, when someone else wanders on in and derails the entire thread by getting back to the original topic.
Some people have no shame :P
(Edit: Just want to point out that was a joke, in case some people might think I was serious)
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(https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v386/jonathanchance/Graham_Chapman_Colonel.jpg)
Right. I'm warning this thread to not get silly again.
It started out as a nice thread about a perfectly reasonable foreign company enacting some suspicious realignment, but then it just got silly.
I'm warning you to not let this thread get silly again.
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i think that picture is silly, and thus you broke your own rule about not being silly lol
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i think that picture is silly, and thus you broke your own rule about not being silly lol
Maybe it's Mad Madam Mim in disguise! (Archimedes did accuse her of only wanting rules so she could break 'em.)
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I know, right? Here are the rest of us, enjoying a perfectly pleasant conversation about avian carrying capacities and cargo storage techniques, when someone else wanders on in and derails the entire thread by getting back to the original topic.
Some people have no shame :P
(Edit: Just want to point out that was a joke, in case some people might think I was serious)
It's getting so an honest shrubber can't make a decent living, anymore.
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It's getting so an honest shrubber can't make a decent living, anymore.
Do I need to incinerate someone for you?
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OH NO...
Another one of my dreaded mental collisions strikes again!
Replace the Knights and King Arthur with (or label them as) NCSoft Execs.
The Vorpal Bunny of Death (with nasty sharp pointy teeth!) is the Save COH movement.
And Tim the Enchanter is... well... Tim the Enchanter - and laughing outrageously as NCSoft gets torn to bloody shreds,
"I WARNED yeh! But did yeh listen? Oh no! "Oh it's just a harmless bunch of gamers! Ah ha ha ha Ho HO ho!"
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I have not seen so many people interested in the activities of tax accountants since Stuart used the Venus Butterfly on Ann on LA Law.
-
Is it sad that I remember that?
-
Father: I say ...
Daughter: Yes, daddy?
Father: The #SaveCOH movement looks damn pretty this afternoon.
Daughter: Frightfully damn pretty.
-
I have not seen so many people interested in the activities of tax accountants since Stuart used the Venus Butterfly on Ann on LA Law.
I am quite amused at my memory of this.
-
It's silly for this thread to get so silly...
(https://i.imgur.com/HYlDO.gif)
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"I WARNED yeh! But did yeh listen? Oh no! "Oh it's just a harmless bunch of gamers! Ah ha ha ha Ho HO ho!"
But does that mean that this new NCWest subsidiary is the holy hand grenade? :(
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Father: I say ...
Daughter: Yes, daddy?
Father: The #SaveCOH movement looks damn pretty this afternoon.
Daughter: Frightfully damn pretty.
Your avatar is awesome. Here, have some internets.
-
But does that mean that this new NCWest subsidiary is the holy hand grenade? :(
Let's find out: 1..... 2.... 5!
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Let's find out: 1..... 2.... 5!
3, Sir!
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Your avatar is awesome. Here, have some internets.
I thank you, most graciously :)
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Well I cannot get to ncsoft.com via my isp nor via my phones internet connection, I wanted to checkout some of their press releases to see if this is mentioned anywhere.......
Anyone else get to ncsoft.com?
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Works fine for me.
For future reference, bookmark this:
http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/
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It's just you. http://ncsoft.com is up.
Interesting, might be something going on the UK
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Looks like it's a lot of places.
They may be changing servers over or someone's messed up their DNS, either way a lot of the world can't currently see ncsoft.com
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For those that are interested, a good site for checking this sort of thing is http://just-ping.com
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They may be changing servers over or someone's messed up their DNS, either way a lot of the world can't currently see ncsoft.com
Maybe they got what they deserved for denying us service.
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It's probably just them submerging their island fortress on the quarterly "Move the Lair" project.
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It's probably just them submerging their island fortress on the quarterly "Move the Lair" project.
Curses! Is there nobody who can tell us where the Black Fortress will rise next?
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Ask Sawboss ??
In the name of the black light, I leave ! (http://www.wheelies.net/sounds/sawboss/nameblacklight.mp3)
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I think the Widow of the Web knows where the fortress will rise next. I'll grab my Glaive just in case.
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I think the Widow of the Web knows where the fortress will rise next. I'll grab my Glaive just in case.
Perhaps we could entice Lord Recluse to get the intel for us? Sounds like his cup of tea...
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Indeed. Someone should put a word in his ear!
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Indeed. Someone should put a word in his ear!
I've been TRYING but I can't get through to Grandville.
-
i always told recluse should get better cell service, pretty that tower was causing massive interference lol
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I have been a Google queen for a really long time, but I just found Startpage (https://startpage.com/). It's awesome. It is very fast, and I noticed less lag and junkmail.
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Are there any updates on this topic, since the sale is only 4 days away?
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I would not expect any since it is not a "public" sale. NCSoft is selling to itself.
-
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I wouldn't put so much stock in anything NCSoft says at this point, Lucretia. For them, today, that's all true. But tomorrow could be totally different with them.
This could, all things considered, be good news, for all we know. If this new subsidiary has the autonomy NCSoft is claiming it has, they might be more inclined to work with CoH than they otherwise might have.
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... is this the bad news that I think it is?
I'd say more it doesn't mean anything conclusive, which is negative in itself but only due to not being positive.
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Y'know, now that I re-read it, it seems more like they're saying "we won't axe any current development". Which makes sense, since they did it before-hand.
Maybe if we bug NCinteractive enough present a strong argument to NCinteractive, they'll reopen our game!
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Since City is no longer a current title, having been completely deleted from NCSoft's lineup, this has no effect on City whatsoever.
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Since City is no longer a current title, having been completely deleted from NCSoft's lineup, this has no effect on City whatsoever.
Since this re-organization will (as I understand it) result in a more westward-focused division of NCstuff, and since City was (as far as I've heard) their most popular western title....
*hopeful*
... we'll at least have a decent chance.
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Since City is no longer a current title, having been completely deleted from NCSoft's lineup, this has no effect on City whatsoever.
That is how I took that bolded part as well, since CoH isn't a current title, per se, to The Parties Involved.
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i been doing my research ever since nov 30th to dec 1st 3:06am on and off forums of titan network to news articles from post to post hours and hours of my days sitting and reading everyones feeds and comments from twitter to save coh on facebook as of now for NCsoft and i have to say i love CoH/CoV but i would never play it again if NCSoft or NCinteractive reopens the game because i could never go threw the closing of the severs ever again i say we dont give up in this campaign we are the biggest protest in history of an MMO and i wont settle for NCsoft opening this game again we are heroes we will win in the end we always do, and for us villains we will never give up for the continue of world domination. Dynastys Sweeper OUT!
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i been doing my research ever since nov 30th to dec 1st 3:06am on and off forums of titan network to news articles from post to post hours and hours of my days sitting and reading everyones feeds and comments from twitter to save coh on facebook as of now for NCsoft and i have to say i love CoH/CoV but i would never play it again if NCSoft or NCinteractive reopens the game because i could never go threw the closing of the severs ever again i say we dont give up in this campaign we are the biggest protest in history of an MMO and i wont settle for NCsoft opening this game again we are heroes we will win in the end we always do, and for us villains we will never give up for the continue of world domination. Dynastys Sweeper OUT!
MON-MON-MON-MON-MON-MONSTER PHRASE.
Punctuation is your friend :-)
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He's just really excited. And may like ee cummings.
-
Now with 100% less spaces to make it a whole WORD:
"ibeendoingmyresearcheversincenov30thtodec1st3:06amonandoffforumsoftitannetworktonewsarticlesfromposttoposthoursandhoursofmydayssittingandreadingeveryonesfeedsandcommentsfromtwittertosavecohonfacebookasofnowforNCsoftandihavetosayiloveCoH/CoVbutiwouldneverplayitagainifNCSoftorNCinteractivereopensthegamebecauseicouldnevergothrewtheclosingoftheseverseveragainisaywedontgiveupinthiscampaignwearethebiggestprotestinhistoryofanMMOandiwontsettleforNCsoftopeningthisgameagainweareheroeswewillwinintheendwealwaysdo,andforusvillainswewillnevergiveupforthecontinueofworlddomination.DynastysSweeperOUT!"
<--Imp.
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There is something not quite right about you. ;)
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Now with 100% less spaces to make it a whole WORD:
"ibeen[...]
<--Imp.
Cut some of your quote. It was to spooky to have it in front of my eyes :O.
But my Cere sense is tingeling: Ever tried to talk to your doc that he shouldn't give you the colorful pills anymore ;D?
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Oh c'mon guys, stop teasing.
I realize that it's all in good fun, but still....
Also, welcome to the party, Dynastys Sweeper!
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There is something not quite right about you. ;)
You're just figuring this out now? :)
Cut some of your quote. It was to spooky to have it in front of my eyes :O.
But my Cere sense is tingeling: Ever tried to talk to your doc that he shouldn't give you the colorful pills anymore ;D ?
Wait... you're telling me they come in *colors*? All mine are white... different shapes/sizes, but just white. BORING...
Oh c'mon guys, stop teasing.
I realize that it's all in good fun, but still....
Also, welcome to the party, Dynastys Sweeper!
Indeed, just havin' a lil' chuckle. *waves at DS frendily*
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lol you guys are to funny, yea i dont put any of these " or these' or this . to lazy when typing i could but then again i dont got the patients but i love parties!!! w00t
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Cut some of your quote. It was to spooky to have it in front of my eyes :O.
But my Cere sense is tingeling: Ever tried to talk to your doc that he shouldn't give you the colorful pills anymore ;D?
when everyone starts to make sense it's time to up the dosage...just dump it in a bowl and add milk...like cornflakes!
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when everyone starts to make sense it's time to up the dosage...just dump it in a bowl and add milk...like cornflakes!
And when NCsoft starts to make sense...?
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Hell will freeze over, pigs will fly, and monkies will come out of someone else's butt, because man, I ain't gonna host no butt monkies, no sir/ma'am.
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monkies will come out of someone else's butt
"Lady, I'm afraid I'm gonna have to ask you to leave the store."
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Hell will freeze over, pigs will fly, and monkies will come out of someone else's butt, dogs and cats living together, MASS HYSTERIA.
>.>
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Hell will freeze over, pigs will fly, and monkies will come out of someone else's butt, because man, I ain't gonna host no butt monkies, no sir/ma'am.
I already heard hell was cold in the 9th circle, and I think there was a case with this guy where he tried to smuggle a monkey in his butt but got caught by customs, and waiting on my order of pork wings to get here.
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No, no, ALL of Hell. Just just one cirlcle of it. Preexisting conditions don't count. :)
/edit: This should read 'Not just one circle of it.' but now it's quoted, so I won't edit it out for that quote's sake. :P
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No, no, ALL of Hell. Just just one cirlcle of it. Preexisting conditions don't count. :)
ah.
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3rd circle is icy rain and ninth is traitors frozen in ice....Kim is on his way to the basement mayhap....