If we start with no user data

[Burnt Toast]

Felderburg,


I understand your situation/hesitancy towards the "perks" associated with the VIP subscription model. We here at Supradine Studios understand that our subscription model will never fit every user's situation which is why we offered tiered plans at the VIP level. Each tier offers something to reward those players who show their commitment to CoH and CoH2 through their VIP subscriptions. Our current proposed model will have CoH2 entering into beta testing approximately 2.5 years after the relaunch of CoH. We feel that this length of time will allow many users the opportunity to participate in and achieve the rewards associated with the second tier of VIP subscription (More than one year of VIP status). When we surveyed past CoH players we found the offered incentives to be among the most popular and accepted with the CoH player base. We hope this helps explain our decision surrounding the VIP bonuses as they relate to CoH2 and look forward to seeing you in game when the new streets of Paragon city debut in 2017.




**Supradine Studios is not a real studio nor do I have any actual knowledge regarding CoH relaunch or the introduction of CoH2...I just thought my reply would sound better if it came from a studio perspective LOL**

Burnt Toast, I like some of your ideas. However, I don't like the idea that people who are VIP in CoH get advanced perks for CoH2. I'm sure I will purchase at least some time in CoH, and hopefully I'll be able to play for free after that. But assuming that CoH2 is announced fairly soon after CoH is bought, I will likely save money for that. While I understand the idea behind rewarding people who are committed to the franchise as a whole, I don't know that people like me who are committed but want to save money up front to spend on CoH 2 later should be "penalized" (in quotes since I'm not really being penalized, it's just that others are being elevated above me). I just have mixed feelings about it.

[DarkCurrent]

I like the idea of including pts to spend on whatever premium perks you want from the store as a way to get back lost items.

This would start everyone at the same point and give a method to reacquire powersets, costume pieces, vet powers, etc they owned prior to close without having to repay actual cash.

[Paragon Avenger]

I don't know, maybe give nobody nothing.

[Burnt Toast]

Nobody is being GIVEN anything. There are rewards for certain commitments. Would you like to clarify why you said what you said? The logic behind your statement?


CoH1 needs to not only make up the money spent for the purchase but also needs to help fund CoH2 as much as possible. Offering a Premium and VIP subscription...will do that as much as possible. I am vehemently against free players as there is NO proof (Aside from Mr. Anecdotal stating he spent x amount of money) that free players provided any money to CoH whereas if you are subscribed/VIP that's a guaranteed monthly amount.  With CoH1 being stuck in maintenance mode... you need an incentive for people to pay and to continue to pay for 2.5 years...

I don't know, maybe give nobody nothing.

[Felderburg]

...there is NO proof (Aside from Mr. Anecdotal stating he spent x amount of money) that free players provided any money to CoH whereas if you are subscribed/VIP that's a guaranteed monthly amount.  With CoH1 being stuck in maintenance mode... you need an incentive for people to pay and to continue to pay for 2.5 years...

I thought several devs were quoted saying CoH was MUCH more profitable under F2P than subscription?

Also, I still have mixed feelings about your plan, but my sense of entitlement makes me hate it! It's sort of weird, actually.

I think the thing that I disliked the most was the closed beta (etc.) access. Badges for vet time in CoH can be earned later (IF I want to spend on two games) but if I decide to save my money up for CoH2, and not spend that much on CoH, it just feels like I'm being penalized for not spending money, even if I'm just as "loyal".

[Waffles]

I thought several devs were quoted saying CoH was MUCH more profitable under F2P than subscription?

I know for a fact Positron said this at one point.

[Burnt Toast]

There is NO PROOF that CoH Freedom was more profitable BECAUSE of free players... it was simply more profitable. I offer this reasoning:


VIP players made it more profitable... I know I did. I gave myself an allowance of "only" $50 a month to spend on the Paragon Market every month...guess who was bad and over spent most months.. Yep.. Me LOL! I figured it out right after the announcement that my CoH budget went from $45 a month (I had three accounts) to $120 a month. CURSE YOU PARAGON MARKET! So do I think it was the freebies bringing the majority of new funds into the game... No I think it was a lot of VIPs wanting more... more.. more


Regarding the Premium and VIPs in my proposed plans for the return of CoH1 and bonuses for CoH2.
Let's say "only" 20,000 players come back (Where do I get that number from??? Well CoH1 is a 10 year old game that is going to be stuck in maintenance mode... it doesn't have the star power it once had. I wouldn't be surprised if many ex players have given up on MMOs or that they will be excited...but wait for CoH2.


So 20,000 players... Now let's say this entire deal costs 2 million. I think that's a fair price. So let's look at how this will work:


20,000 players... at $9.99 a month will take 10 months to pay off the PURCHASE cost...this does not include servers...staff..etc. So let's round that up to an even year to call everything paid off WOOHOO!
So 1 year of players...just to break even.


Now let's say HALF of those returning players are VIP... so they are paying $5 more a month...which goes towards CoH2... that's only $600,000... which will not buy you much towards development when you consider staff, computers, an office, etc... Well Poop.


So now we move into year 2 (I am giving them 2.5 years from relaunch of CoH1 to launch of CoH2...which is a tight schedule).
Year 2 allows more sub money to be funneled into CoH2 ... since now we are just maintaining CoH1 and have paid of the purchase price etc.


So yes... it makes complete sense to offer incentives to people who for a year support CoH2 with an extra $5 in their sub..and yes it makes sense to give them even more incentive to continue to do so to help fund CoH2.


Two things to think about:


1. Had CoH never closed... and you wanted to be VIP... there is NO change in the  amount you will be spending on your subscription, but a lot to be gained when CoH2 comes.


2, The financial differences over a 2.5 year period:
Premium cost: $299.70
VIP cost: $449.70


$150 more over the course of 2.5 years... $60 per year more. That's 2 nights at a movie btw ALSO - There will be no NEED to save for CoH2 if you are VIP from relaunch of CoH1 because you are getting a FREE copy of CoH2.


I think it important to not think about "ohhh they are getting this or that" and focus more on... "Oh I am helping support a game I love...and a game that I will love."

[MWRuger]

^^^This.

As I said I think it's perfectly fair for people paying over and above to get perks in CoH2 since they are funding the development of it.

If CoH is in maintenance mode at I24 from relaunch, other than server and maintenance cost, where do you think the money is going?

[Apex Viper]

This may sound odd or stupid, but here goes.

Do you remember standing in WW, and having a miscellaneous "bot" offering influence at a price? I'm sure you do and I'm sure that company selling the influence made a killing. Maybe this is something they, the new owners or dev team, should do instead of letting these outside non-affiliated companies take money away from the game. Lets say a billion influence is $8.00, and each billion after that the rate drops a little, with a max amount of 20 billion for $120.00. Many of the returning vets will want their maxed out all purple slotted level 50s back ASAP. Using the number that Burnt Toast used of 20,000 returning players, lets say half use this option and buy 20 billion each.  That's $1.2 MILLION generated. Now, I'm sure most of, if not all, returning Vets will be VIP or have subscribed accounts at the normal $15 per month. That's another $300,000, if all 20,000 Vets subscribe. Adding in the purchase of the "new" returning game at $65.00 each (this seems to be the average cost of a new game at any retailer). That's $1.3 MILLION. That makes $2.8 MILLION in revenue, not counting the purchase of power packs/costume booster packs. Granted those numbers would "float" each month as not as many people would need 20 billion influence plus what they earn via game play.     

[MWRuger]

This may sound odd or stupid, but here goes.

Do you remember standing in WW, and having a miscellaneous "bot" offering influence at a price? I'm sure you do and I'm sure that company selling the influence made a killing. Maybe this is something they, the new owners or dev team, should do instead of letting these outside non-affiliated companies take money away from the game. Lets say a billion influence is $8.00, and each billion after that the rate drops a little, with a max amount of 20 billion for $120.00. Many of the returning vets will want their maxed out all purple slotted level 50s back ASAP. Using the number that Burnt Toast used of 20,000 returning players, lets say half use this option and buy 20 billion each.  That's $1.2 MILLION generated. Now, I'm sure most of, if not all, returning Vets will be VIP or have subscribed accounts at the normal $15 per month. That's another $300,000, if all 20,000 Vets subscribe. Adding in the purchase of the "new" returning game at $65.00 each (this seems to be the average cost of a new game at any retailer). That's $1.3 MILLION. That makes $2.8 MILLION in revenue, not counting the purchase of power packs/costume booster packs. Granted those numbers would "float" each month as not as many people would need 20 billion influence plus what they earn via game play.     

Desperate for the prices to rise in the market? This is a great way to inflate the price without increasing purchasing power.

First, there will be no purples for them to buy until they drop so they won't have anything to spend the inf they just bought on.

If inf is easily bought, then bids for the most desirable items will all be exceptionally high, probably near the cap.

Also this puts player who just play at a significant disadvantage. Their inf earning rate didn't change but you just made everything inflated in price.


Pumping in extra cash without increasing base supply is a terrible idea.


A better idea is to just sell the purples in the cash store, make them character bound and let people bypass the hyperinflation you propose.

[Myrmydon]

If the new Devs are able to start up the store again and turn on the Store-bought enhancements, they'll likely make back a great deal of their cost quickly. I'm sure most of us wouldn't mind paying for enhancements to get things rolling from scratch.

[JaguarX]

A better idea is to just sell the purples in the cash store, make them character bound and let people bypass the hyperinflation you propose.

yeah I proposed that on the CoT site a while back but it was said to will end up being the CAUSE of inflation. Despite that hyperinflation happened as is in COH/COV without it and gave rise to the inf. bots selling inf. so people can afford tot buy the good stuff off the market anytime soon without resorting to farming and or hoping they are fortunate enough to get a good drop to flip. Looks like the census was there is not way to control hyperinflation on a market and any attempts to do so will be labeled as the cause of inflation and thus should not be tried. Guess there is only room on the hill for only one cause of hyperinflation.

*shrugs*

[Burnt Toast]

As I have said before regarding enhancements:


In the paragon market I would like to see ALL the previous enhancements offered at a SERIOUSLY reduced rate (Think 20%) as well as the sale of Alignment Merits at a VERY reasonable price. This will allow for an influx of enhancements in the beginning which will help stimulate the economy. Both the Revival Edition and the Revival Deluxe Edition would award your first 10 toons X amount of reward merits (9,999 seems like a fair number to me) this will allow for players to buy recipes to start the market off as well as their toons.

I feel we need to stimulate the economy and supply as much as possible after the relaunch of CoH1...and think deeply discounted enhancements on the Paragon Market as well as the bonus merits offered to the 2 versions of CoH: Revival ... will greatly increase the supply. There is going to be hyper inflated prices in the beginning no matter what we do... remember when WentWorths opened and so did the costume piece drops? I bought a pair of fairy wings for a friend because she wanted them so bad... I paid... 20 million. Before the announcement of closure came...people deleted those recipes because you couldn't even get 100 inf for them. When CoH1 starts back up...it will definitely be a seller's market, but just wait 3 or 4 months and prices will have stabilized.

[MWRuger]

yeah I proposed that on the CoT site a while back but it was said to will end up being the CAUSE of inflation. Despite that hyperinflation happened as is in COH/COV without it and gave rise to the inf. bots selling inf. so people can afford tot buy the good stuff off the market anytime soon without resorting to farming and or hoping they are fortunate enough to get a good drop to flip. Looks like the census was there is not way to control hyperinflation on a market and any attempts to do so will be labeled as the cause of inflation and thus should not be tried. Guess there is only room on the hill for only one cause of hyperinflation.

*shrugs*

If you make them character bound and not tradeable they can't end up on the market.

I do agree that inflation in the market is inevitable for a number of reasons but starting that way is a bad idea. Overtime people will have inf and be able to deal.

I would prefer that it not be done at all but if the playerbase and the dev's want to change real world money for purples then  character bound (first toon who claims it from email) is the least damaging in my opinion.

[Lava-Lad]

I hated those "1M inf, 8USD.  All best gold from goldfarmers.com" bots (and the inflation they helped create), but the idea of selling the purps for cash to help support the purchase of the game under the condition of making them untradeable seems like a good solution to 3 problems 1) black market resellers, 2) inability to "get back to normal" in a timely manner and 3) a plan for the investors/developers to recoup their investment in a timely manner.

[hejtmane]

Desperate for the prices to rise in the market? This is a great way to inflate the price without increasing purchasing power.

First, there will be no purples for them to buy until they drop so they won't have anything to spend the inf they just bought on.

If inf is easily bought, then bids for the most desirable items will all be exceptionally high, probably near the cap.

Also this puts player who just play at a significant disadvantage. Their inf earning rate didn't change but you just made everything inflated in price.


Pumping in extra cash without increasing base supply is a terrible idea.


A better idea is to just sell the purples in the cash store, make them character bound and let people bypass the hyperinflation you propose.

Amen that is why Blizzard killed the cash shop in Diablo III it about killed the game (along with some other things)  in fact more people spent time bidding on items then playing the game. It was a disaster and they shut it down in March. Character or account bound imo but you nailed the biggest issue in your post.

[Charged Mastermind]

If we don't get user data back, here's what I think should happen and why...

1) All powers unlocked. Not necessarily all classes, but all powers unlocked that would require purchase from the Market (like Kinetic Melee and such). If this doesn't work out, perhaps we can have the choice of one or two free powers to get from the Paragon Market.
2) At least have City of Villains have a bundle. You don't really need Going Rogue unless if it is for incarnate stuff (after some browsing on the Wiki). This gives us access to both Hero and Villain Archetypes
3) MAYBE 1 Character Boost to 50. I am iffy on this because new players would have the ability to instantly level to 50 and have absolutely no idea what they are doing. You should not make it refundable so people can't level up to 50, figure out what they have to do, and then make another one.
4) All SG Base Props unlocked. This would give SG's the ability to fully rebuild their base or give new players the ability to mess around with them. OR, they want some ideas, create a Sandbox mode where all items are free and people can mess around with their base but you can't set it as your full base, and only a certain number of people can be in it at a time.
5) All character creator items unlocked. Not including costumes that are currently in i24.
6) SOME Paragon Points for the Market. This is assuming we don't get my first wish granted.


Frankly that is all that I can think of. I felt a little needy writing this but maybe some of you can agree (or disagree)

[JaguarX]

If you make them character bound and not tradeable they can't end up on the market.

I do agree that inflation in the market is inevitable for a number of reasons but starting that way is a bad idea. Overtime people will have inf and be able to deal.

I would prefer that it not be done at all but if the playerbase and the dev's want to change real world money for purples then  character bound (first toon who claims it from email) is the least damaging in my opinion.

indeed. that is what i say.

And yep,  Lava-Lad.

[Waffles]

Would it be too much to ask for 24/7 ski chalet access?

[Burnt Toast]

On top of that I would also like to see the Summer event live. I need to get me some of those Overwhelming Force IO sets

Would it be too much to ask for 24/7 ski chalet access?