Author Topic: And the mask comes off.  (Read 1712672 times)

Remaugen

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2340 on: September 16, 2014, 05:11:44 AM »
I would like to take a moment here to send a shout out to Ironwolf for all his work in keeping us informed and placing himself in the spotlight and the crossfire for so long.

Now he has stepped out of the spotlight and is volunteering his help with APR, a real trooper and worthy of our praise and respect.

When the game does return, I seriously hope that Ironwolf receives some form of honor, a signature character, or a statue or maybe even a mission contact, whatever, he deserves that acknowledgement!

Thank you very much Ironwolf!

We will now return to our regularly scheduled thread content. . .
« Last Edit: September 16, 2014, 07:05:13 AM by Remaugen »
We're almost there!  ;D

The RNG hates me.

Cailyn Alaynn

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2341 on: September 16, 2014, 07:34:48 AM »
We will now return to our regularly scheduled thread content. . .

I believe our regularly scheduled content is me answering people's questions, and other people arguing about Sentinel+/the character database.
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Revival website: APR.Pc-Logix.com

AnElfCalledMack

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2342 on: September 16, 2014, 08:47:56 AM »
I should clarify.  I was talking more about the tier 3/4 powers. I know on my Ice/Ice/Fire  and my Elec/Elec/Elec I would of preferred Frostbite over Chilling Embrace @lvl10 and Lightning Cages over Lightning Field. Yes I know it treads a little on the trollers/doms but the blaster description from the 3 ring binder states that blasters have very good control powers and are second only to the Controllers if my memory serves me right.
Trollers and Doms, of course. But yes, a real CC would be nice, rather than just an immob (not that you can't make good use of an immob, but it's conditional) would be nice for a class that's supposed to have minor battlefield control to supplement their very good damage.

Arcana

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2343 on: September 16, 2014, 09:23:46 AM »
I dont get these people who made these blasters that constantly died at every turn.. I made plenty of blasters.. and I didnt die every 32 seconds and rarely did I build any defense into any of them.. in fact I only did it with one..

Ive always thought that many of the people who played blasters probably started playing as a scrapper or tank first.. then tried a blaster and played with the same scrapperlock mentality..  and died... a lot... and then went.. blasters suck.. I started playing with a blaster.. so I kind of learned.. who was dangerous to me and who I could take down quick.. and learned how to use other skills to limit my aggro and stay alive..

But even then I didnt die ALL the time..

I leveled basically every alt exactly like the first: buying what I could based on what I earned, farming nothing, PLing never, soloing and teaming in pick up teams when I could.  As an experienced player, I could play anything and make it work without dying often, but every time I started to forget how difficult it was to play blasters, I could always roll a new one and be reminded.  Its also difficult to play without doing things automatically that most players don't know or aren't skilled enough to do, that you do without thinking and makes the experience easier, that because you don't think about it you don't give enough credit for your survival either.

Just little things like the fact I was always moving when playing blasters and not just standing still and shooting from range contributed to my survival.  True but virtually unknown fact about CoH: moving more than a certain amount would cause the critters to subtly alter how they chose which powers to use to attack.  Running around in circles around a spawn could reduce incoming damage by as much as *half*.  Sometimes, things you don't even realize are making the game easier are making it a lot easier.  Beginners are not efficient inspiration users.  They don't fire attacks efficiently.  They do not manage endurance as well as veteran players do instinctively.  They don't pace themselves well.  They don't know when they are in over their heads, because it often happens fast.  And very small differences in build decisions, like when to take attacks and when to take toggles, and when to take but not use a power until it can be slotted, can make a huge difference.  Beginning players did not understand that sometimes you take a power but don't use it, because unslotted it wastes time and endurance and can actually kill you, but slotted it could be a huge benefit.

Also, people tend to remember what they want to remember, particularly when it comes to the leveling experience.  They tend to forget how easy or hard things were, and mostly remember their final level 50 enhanced experience, and they assume they can extrapolate downward from there.  Someone I knew in-game once told me a particular blaster combination was trivial to play.  To prove it they leveled one to about 16ish, and proceeded to destroy a spawn with it.  I told him that was great, now do it five times in a row.  He was killed fighting the fourth.  Its easy to kill one spawn.  But if you end that fight with even slightly less than full health, sustaining that pace is impossible.  Many players "tested" themselves in conditions that did not replicate actual gameplay, in terms of having to fight maybe 30 spawns in a mission in ten minutes all in a row.  They assumed if they could defeat one strong spawn, they could repeat that task indefinitely.  Not the case.

AlienOne

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2344 on: September 16, 2014, 11:45:28 AM »
Like, I never could get the hang of playing a Kheld. Which of course means, someone will come along saying something like  "I soloed the AVs in the STF with my PB!" :)

I soloed the AVs in the STF with my PB. And my Warshade. ;)

Well, at least... I tanked them while the rest of the team took care of other things (like taking down the towers at Lord Recluse). :P
"What COH did was to show [developers of other] MMOs what they could be like if they gave up on controlling everything in the game, and just made it something great to play."  - Johnny Joy Bringer

Ultimate15

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2345 on: September 16, 2014, 12:36:57 PM »
I believe our regularly scheduled content is me answering people's questions, and other people arguing about Sentinel+/the character database.

Yep! Sounds about right.  :D But we kind of love you for it.

And on the topic of questions...are we theeeeere yet? I wonder how things are going with Nate and his team. *tries to exercise patience*
Viva la Virtue!

Cailyn Alaynn

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2346 on: September 16, 2014, 12:53:32 PM »
And on the topic of questions...are we theeeeere yet?

YE-Wait...No.
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Balince

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2347 on: September 16, 2014, 01:56:03 PM »
YE-Wait...No.

Sneaky, sneaky. Sounds like a might be happening but can't say anything type of answer, or I wish it was happening but everything is quiet right now. Don't know which one!

HEATSTROKE

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2348 on: September 16, 2014, 02:15:39 PM »
I leveled basically every alt exactly like the first: buying what I could based on what I earned, farming nothing, PLing never, soloing and teaming in pick up teams when I could.  As an experienced player, I could play anything and make it work without dying often, but every time I started to forget how difficult it was to play blasters, I could always roll a new one and be reminded.  Its also difficult to play without doing things automatically that most players don't know or aren't skilled enough to do, that you do without thinking and makes the experience easier, that because you don't think about it you don't give enough credit for your survival either.

Just little things like the fact I was always moving when playing blasters and not just standing still and shooting from range contributed to my survival.  True but virtually unknown fact about CoH: moving more than a certain amount would cause the critters to subtly alter how they chose which powers to use to attack.  Running around in circles around a spawn could reduce incoming damage by as much as *half*.  Sometimes, things you don't even realize are making the game easier are making it a lot easier.  Beginners are not efficient inspiration users.  They don't fire attacks efficiently.  They do not manage endurance as well as veteran players do instinctively.  They don't pace themselves well.  They don't know when they are in over their heads, because it often happens fast.  And very small differences in build decisions, like when to take attacks and when to take toggles, and when to take but not use a power until it can be slotted, can make a huge difference.  Beginning players did not understand that sometimes you take a power but don't use it, because unslotted it wastes time and endurance and can actually kill you, but slotted it could be a huge benefit.

Also, people tend to remember what they want to remember, particularly when it comes to the leveling experience.  They tend to forget how easy or hard things were, and mostly remember their final level 50 enhanced experience, and they assume they can extrapolate downward from there.  Someone I knew in-game once told me a particular blaster combination was trivial to play.  To prove it they leveled one to about 16ish, and proceeded to destroy a spawn with it.  I told him that was great, now do it five times in a row.  He was killed fighting the fourth.  Its easy to kill one spawn.  But if you end that fight with even slightly less than full health, sustaining that pace is impossible.  Many players "tested" themselves in conditions that did not replicate actual gameplay, in terms of having to fight maybe 30 spawns in a mission in ten minutes all in a row.  They assumed if they could defeat one strong spawn, they could repeat that task indefinitely.  Not the case.

 I think that for me I started playing blasters when the game was young (2 months after launch). So I learned very early how to manage aggro... how much of a mob I could take on at once.. which foes mez and HOW they mez.. How to use range to my advantage.. how to break line of sight.. using hover to stay out of melee... how to pull... etc etc.. and then as blaster got small improvements.. and then Epic Pools and IO's they got easier to me..

I can certainly understand if you started playing a Scrapper or Tank.. and then tried a blaster.. its an immediate shock.. and Level 35-45 feel like an eternity...

Shadowe

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2349 on: September 16, 2014, 02:17:58 PM »
Sneaky, sneaky. Sounds like a might be happening but can't say anything type of answer, or I wish it was happening but everything is quiet right now. Don't know which one!

More like a teasing answer.

Here's my brief description of the rules as we need to follow them right now:

1) Wait.

2) Be patient.

3) Wait patiently.

4) If it comes from anyone but Downix, it's not information.

5) Keep waiting. Patiently.
The wisdom of Shadowe: Ghostraptor: The Shadowe is wise ...; FFM: Shadowe is no longer wise. ; Techbot_Alpha: Also, what Shadowe said. It seems he is still somewhat wise ; Bull Throttle: Shadowe was unwise in this instance...; Rock_Powerfist: in this instance Shadowe is wise.; Techbot_Alpha: Shadowe is very wise *nods*; Zortel: *Quotable line about Shadowe being wise goes here.* FFM: I think you're mostly wise in this instance, apart from one part.

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Cailyn Alaynn

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2351 on: September 16, 2014, 02:36:11 PM »
More like a teasing answer.
1) Wait.
2) Be patient.
3) Wait patiently.
4) If it comes from anyone but Downix, it's not information.
5) Keep waiting. Patiently.

More like turbo sarcasm.
Ah...Yeah. Waiting. Lots of different kinds of waiting.
I'd make #2 something like...post on the Titan/APR/CoT/whatever forum a bunch. Um...It keeps everyone involved? -shrugs-

To be fair, I'd consider (I sound totally biased saying this, I'm aware.) anything coming from myself pretty safe information. Nate's information supersedes mine of course, but I get my information directly from him.
So... Maybe....
1) Nate
2) Myself/IronWolf
3)TonyV
4)Others
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MM3squints

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2352 on: September 16, 2014, 02:53:43 PM »
I should clarify.  I was talking more about the tier 3/4 powers. I know on my Ice/Ice/Fire  and my Elec/Elec/Elec I would of preferred Frostbite over Chilling Embrace @lvl10 and Lightning Cages over Lightning Field. Yes I know it treads a little on the trollers/doms but the blaster description from the 3 ring binder states that blasters have very good control powers and are second only to the Controllers if my memory serves me right.

Technically tanks/brutes had better control than blasters. It's really how you want to define CC. Meat shields hold the agro, while troller/doms literally hold targets.

BadWolf

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2353 on: September 16, 2014, 03:01:59 PM »
I can certainly understand if you started playing a Scrapper or Tank.. and then tried a blaster.. its an immediate shock.. and Level 35-45 feel like an eternity...

For me, it was the opposite. I started with a blaster as my first main, and I literally ran out of storyarc content by level 38 because it took me about twice as long to get through each level. :) (This was back around I3.) I then decided to try a fire/fire tank, because the new changes to tankers sounded intriguing, and it was an immediate shock to me how durable I was without sacrificing significant damage. (This was before Burn got perma-nerfed, natch.)

I eventually did go back and get that blaster to 50, but it was the beginning of my love affair with melee archetypes that never ended. Because they give up very little to blasters in terms of damage, but gain so much in terms of survivability.

mrultimate

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2354 on: September 16, 2014, 03:33:53 PM »
My first character was a Energy/Energy Blaster. He was also my first 50. My second character was a Fire/Fire Blaster which was my second 50. After those the MA/SR scrapper felt a little like cheating. But I had definitely learned how to play my blasters.

Shadowe

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2355 on: September 16, 2014, 04:19:27 PM »
More like turbo sarcasm.
Ah...Yeah. Waiting. Lots of different kinds of waiting.
I'd make #2 something like...post on the Titan/APR/CoT/whatever forum a bunch. Um...It keeps everyone involved? -shrugs-

To be fair, I'd consider (I sound totally biased saying this, I'm aware.) anything coming from myself pretty safe information. Nate's information supersedes mine of course, but I get my information directly from him.
So... Maybe....
1) Nate
2) Myself/IronWolf
3)TonyV
4)Others

Fair enough: I was coming from the perspective that Nate is a direct part of the negotiations and that by definition any information from other sources is second-hand.

I am certainly in no way attempting to reduce your part in this, IG (nor Ironwolf's or Tony's, or anyone else for that matter). Believe me, I have every respect for what you have achieved with APR, and what Ironwolf did to get this process going, and Tony making the Titan Network the CoH community centre.

So, I respect and accept your revised priority of information. I was mostly just trying to be short and snappy.
The wisdom of Shadowe: Ghostraptor: The Shadowe is wise ...; FFM: Shadowe is no longer wise. ; Techbot_Alpha: Also, what Shadowe said. It seems he is still somewhat wise ; Bull Throttle: Shadowe was unwise in this instance...; Rock_Powerfist: in this instance Shadowe is wise.; Techbot_Alpha: Shadowe is very wise *nods*; Zortel: *Quotable line about Shadowe being wise goes here.* FFM: I think you're mostly wise in this instance, apart from one part.

Cailyn Alaynn

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2356 on: September 16, 2014, 04:27:52 PM »
Fair enough: I was coming from the perspective that Nate is a direct part of the negotiations and that by definition any information from other sources is second-hand.
I am certainly in no way attempting to reduce your part in this, IG (nor Ironwolf's or Tony's, or anyone else for that matter). Believe me, I have every respect for what you have achieved with APR, and what Ironwolf did to get this process going, and Tony making the Titan Network the CoH community centre.
So, I respect and accept your revised priority of information. I was mostly just trying to be short and snappy.

True. Anything Nate says takes priority in regards to the negotiations. Being the guy in charge OF the negotiations kind technically makes him the most well informed.
It wasn't so much a concern of any lack for respect I may/may not have felt due. More...I wanted to make sure that if Ironwolf or I say something in regards to the negotiation...it doesn't get ignored by someone new, or someone who may have misunderstood your comment.

Also, if this is the worst English you've ever read...it is prolly because I am the most TIRED person on the planet right now. Seriously. Why am I even still awake?
"Let's get dangerous..."
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Revival website: APR.Pc-Logix.com

Shadowe

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2357 on: September 16, 2014, 05:06:30 PM »
True. Anything Nate says takes priority in regards to the negotiations. Being the guy in charge OF the negotiations kind technically makes him the most well informed.
It wasn't so much a concern of any lack for respect I may/may not have felt due. More...I wanted to make sure that if Ironwolf or I say something in regards to the negotiation...it doesn't get ignored by someone new, or someone who may have misunderstood your comment.

Also, if this is the worst English you've ever read...it is prolly because I am the most TIRED person on the planet right now. Seriously. Why am I even still awake?

Worst the not read ever English have I.

Y0|_| c0|_|1o| |-|4\/3 60|\|3 f|_|11 1337.

Or just some stream of consciousness type of rambling affair which takes an age to comprehend such that you are constantly reminding people why punctuation is important but it doesn't matter because all that matters is getting your words down so that everybody can read your infinite wisdom which they should because otherwise they will be missing out on the greatest thing ever and it will all be GONE TO THE AMERICANS!

Seriously, though, get some 5133p.
The wisdom of Shadowe: Ghostraptor: The Shadowe is wise ...; FFM: Shadowe is no longer wise. ; Techbot_Alpha: Also, what Shadowe said. It seems he is still somewhat wise ; Bull Throttle: Shadowe was unwise in this instance...; Rock_Powerfist: in this instance Shadowe is wise.; Techbot_Alpha: Shadowe is very wise *nods*; Zortel: *Quotable line about Shadowe being wise goes here.* FFM: I think you're mostly wise in this instance, apart from one part.

brothermutant

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2358 on: September 16, 2014, 05:50:52 PM »
I think my first 50 was a Grav/FF troller and boy was that a combo that did NOT kill fast. Always played toons based on theme and I wanted a Telekinetic feel. 2nd serious toon was a Energy/Energy blaster and that was...different. Killed fast and got killed fast, but I did realize early on that I played him like a blapper. Someone on my team said I should just play a Scrapper, so I made one; a Claws/Invuln Scrapper (made him to copy the powers of Mimic on the Exiles).

He SLAUGHTERED stuff. It was ridiculous how easy he was to fight with. You all remember teamin to beat down on FrostFire? My trio of ingame friends all died halfway in, I survived till they got back and we finished the mission. One of the team said he was pimped out for staying alive so long, I just thought he was durable as all get out.

After that, I returned to other sets just to test them out. Tanks were my LEAST favorite hero side. When CoV was out, I made all of them, but only really liked Brutes, Stalkers and MMs (not counting my Hunter Soldier I built). MMs were bar none the MOST fun I had as a villain and I was soooooo happy they let you bring them hero side with the Going Rouge set up. Did that ASAP and loved having him on the team. Once I learned a LITTLE about Macros and how I could position the troops so I didn't have to fight, it was so much fun. Hell, many times I tried to make SOLOing MMs just so I could say I beat this GM or AV all by myself (me and my minions of course). I really missed the MMs. Sure they bogged down everyone's gaming a little with the amount of graphics the game had to portray, but IMHO it made the game more fun. And when everyone got "pets" with the incarnate system, I think everyone realized how useful pets were.

now if we can only convince the new games' devs to make ALL pets controllable like MM pets (re: Irish Girl...hint hint wink wink), that would be fantastic.

mad skills

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2359 on: September 16, 2014, 06:16:57 PM »
Also, if this is the worst English you've ever read...it is prolly because I am the most TIRED person on the planet right now. Seriously. Why am I even still awake?
It seems that you do not do much sleeping based on the times of your posts, which may appear kind of stalkerish of me but I really just pay attention to the posts of a few individuals on this forum. With that said, no need for a restraining order. :P