And the mask comes off.

[Ironwolf]

I am just saying that if I had purchased it - I would want to know the game works as saved.

I can't possibly imagine any other company not wanting the same. In thinking through the deal and what would cause delays - the number 1 thing I thought of is not having enough of the game to get it running. I know I would want to be able to have one server running at least. Otherwise the price for the image would be worth far less. Due diligence means you have to check these things.

NCSoft would want to be sure the game is handled responsibiy and in the hands of someone both technical enough and yet solvent enough in funds to keep it going. The new overlords would want to make sure the software works. I don't mean completely up and running with all datatbases and markets going - but at least the main game functioning. In any sort of negotiation this would not be an unusual or unreasonable request.

I don't have inside information or any news - I was just running through in my head - what would I want before I handed over cash for the CoH rights and game?

[FloatingFatMan]

Yeah, I was wondering where he was shoving the card as well... 

I would be shoving it in so hard it would go through every orifice in the universe, simultaneously!

[Safehouse]

I would not be surprised if the servers were up very quickly after the deal is complete. It may well be part of the deal to make sure they are functioning prior to the sale - I know I would want them up to insure I have all the working parts before I handed over a suitcase full of money. That might be part of what is taking time as well.

I guess would you buy some disk images for a couple hundred thousand at least on the - trust us it all works from NCSoft or any other company? That is why I said deals like this have a lot of moving parts. If you were purchasing this you would want at least one server up - it actually makes me smile to think someone out there may have the disks running and is testing it.

Someone else said something to this effect, but your posts have this way of getting right to the point and helping resolve my concerns. Seriously, now I don't even know why I was worrying so much about this deal. Now, it's just about waiting a bit longer!

[CaptainMako]

Been lurking for a while, only after I checked out Valiance Online did something occur to me. It seems like, between the entire demographic of people who want a City of (fill in potentiality here) revival in one form or another, there is a quiet (and sometimes not so quiet) animosity towards NCSoft amongst some people. There are people like me, who want any form of the game to come back, regardless of the ownership, and who may or may not be satisfied with Champions, Valiance etc. And I'm sure there are others that want nothing to do with NCSoft, after the collective head and heartbreak they've dished out. Most notably I see this from those who were involved with user petitions towards CoH's closure, and were pretty much ignored. There are some extremely distrusting folks out there, and rightfully so.

What I'm afraid of is that some people may see good news, such as a deal being made, flock to it, see the NCSoft tag and turn cheek. Now believe me, I myself am not particularly happy with NCSoft, but I never expected them to keep the game running out of the charity of their hearts. I would love nothing more than to wake up one morning, check the news as I do, and see Paragon City, and especially the Rogue Isles open again. At the same time, I wouldn't mind seeing a project like Valiance (the alpha beta shows some promise, with frequent updates) and Titan make headway without NCSoft overhead.

I think I had something to ask everyone, but after all that I lost it. Something about how bound to NCSoft you might think a City of X revival might be, or how much involvement everyone would prefer to have. NCSoft undoubtedly has resources to offer, its just considering what will come with it.

[GN2]

Been lurking for a while, only after I checked out Valiance Online did something occur to me. It seems like, between the entire demographic of people who want a City of (fill in potentiality here) revival in one form or another, there is a quiet (and sometimes not so quiet) animosity towards NCSoft amongst some people. There are people like me, who want any form of the game to come back, regardless of the ownership, and who may or may not be satisfied with Champions, Valiance etc. And I'm sure there are others that want nothing to do with NCSoft, after the collective head and heartbreak they've dished out. Most notably I see this from those who were involved with user petitions towards CoH's closure, and were pretty much ignored. There are some extremely distrusting folks out there, and rightfully so.

What I'm afraid of is that some people may see good news, such as a deal being made, flock to it, see the NCSoft tag and turn cheek. Now believe me, I myself am not particularly happy with NCSoft, but I never expected them to keep the game running out of the charity of their hearts. I would love nothing more than to wake up one morning, check the news as I do, and see Paragon City, and especially the Rogue Isles open again. At the same time, I wouldn't mind seeing a project like Valiance (the alpha beta shows some promise, with frequent updates) and Titan make headway without NCSoft overhead.

I think I had something to ask everyone, but after all that I lost it. Something about how bound to NCSoft you might think a City of X revival might be, or how much involvement everyone would prefer to have. NCSoft undoubtedly has resources to offer, its just considering what will come with it.

There is absolutely no way NCSoft will let their credits be removed from the game. Like them or not, they brought the game back from the brink when they acquired it from Cryptic, and they want their work to be represented. It's the same reason as why Cryptic's logos were still in the game after they no longer owned the rights to it.

If people have a problem with that, they're just going to have to deal with it. Though I can't imagine people being so petty as to refuse to go back to a game they claim to love just because it has someone's logo on it.

[Felderburg]

I think I had something to ask everyone, but after all that I lost it. Something about how bound to NCSoft you might think a City of X revival might be, or how much involvement everyone would prefer to have. NCSoft undoubtedly has resources to offer, its just considering what will come with it.

There is absolutely no way NCSoft will let their credits be removed from the game. Like them or not, they brought the game back from the brink when they acquired it from Cryptic, and they want their work to be represented. It's the same reason as why Cryptic's logos were still in the game after they no longer owned the rights to it.

If people have a problem with that, they're just going to have to deal with it. Though I can't imagine people being so petty as to refuse to go back to a game they claim to love just because it has someone's logo on it.

I think the logical end question is not just about logos, but how much actual involvement NCsoft has with the game. Based on what I've read here, it seems like the answer is "none," which will help. If they still manage or are involved with the IP licensing company, that might be an issue.

[Safehouse]

There is absolutely no way NCSoft will let their credits be removed from the game. Like them or not, they brought the game back from the brink when they acquired it from Cryptic, and they want their work to be represented. It's the same reason as why Cryptic's logos were still in the game after they no longer owned the rights to it.

If people have a problem with that, they're just going to have to deal with it. Though I can't imagine people being so petty as to refuse to go back to a game they claim to love just because it has someone's logo on it.

There's a saying that I'm particularly fond of when it comes to the kind of mindset that you're talking about. In the saying, we are warned: "Don't cut off your nose to spite your face." It's all about pettiness, about not losing perspective just because you don't like what someone or something did. We see a lot of this short sighted spitefulness in our culture these days. Personally, I would challenge anyone who is planning to refuse to return to CoX due to NCSoft's logo being affixed to it to really think about what they're doing. In the grand scheme of things, the only people they will be harming is themselves.

[Safehouse]

I think the logical end question is not just about logos, but how much actual involvement NCsoft has with the game. Based on what I've read here, it seems like the answer is "none," which will help. If they still manage or are involved with the IP licensing company, that might be an issue.

Really good point, about the involvement. Even if NCSoft were involved, I would probably still play the game. But I would also be nervous, given what happened last time. It comes down to trust for me, more than it does to anger or vengeance. I would probably be less attached to the game; I wouldn't allow myself to get too attached for fear of repeating history.

What makes me a bit more trusting here is that, while CoH would come back in maintenance mode, there would be other projects involved. That, for some reason, gives me a more stable foundation to work with than if it was just CoH coming back.

But, as you said, it seems like NCSoft would have little, if any, involvement, so I don't have trust issues. And the logo being there is not a personal affront to me.

[Ironwolf]

The logo issue is quite silly. NCSoft did do a lot of development on the game over the years to make it into the finished product at the end. They are right to be proud of the development they did.

Some of the silliness at the end did not help them and they didn't understand their audience. I work for a big company and they recently said in some job positions they will be capping growth as the higher end people are not needed as much as the lower end. This means stagnation at a lower pay scale for newer folks coming in. We had a meeting about it today and the reply was - sorry we don't need more of those people. Then the lady having said it realized how bad that sounded and said - you deserve a better answer than that - the facts won't change but the spin will. I prefer straight no nonsense answers. I hate corp spin and just having one of the people to come out and say - I am not rewarding one of the idiots on the team - would have been more honest than all the newspeak they trotted out.

[Burnt Toast]

I am the exact opposite of those NCSoft naysayers. While I have only ever played one other NCSoft game (Guild Wars 2 for like a week)... I will say this: I am very grateful to NCSoft.


I never played an MMO until I played CoH... not one. Heck aside from some Super Mario Brothers... I never played video games. I started CoH a few weeks after launch..and played it until the last second. I had 3 accounts...all VIP... one at the start...one in late 2004..and another from March 2005. So why am I grateful to NCSoft...the company that closed down the only game I ever loved? Because if it weren't for them...I never would have had experienced CoH. 8 years I played CoH... hundreds of characters...hundreds (ok thousands) of hours of fun...all thanks in no small part to NCSoft. So why would I be angry at them? 8 years... that's a lot longer than I thought I would get. There was a time when things looked bleak in 2006 that Cryptic was going to focus less on CoH due to their deal for their planned Marvel game...this worried me greatly. Then when it came down to it... NCSoft took over as Cryptic exited the picture...in essence saving City of Heroes. So while others hold a grudge and vow to not come back if NCSoft has anything to do with the game...I hold no ill will towards the company that gave me 8 years of a wonderful game.


Was I angry when the announcement came...yes among other emotions. Did I attend the Unity rally...yes I did (AP 6). Did I sign the online petition...donate to the dev dinner.. yep. But you know what happened shortly after the closure...I came to the realization that what they did was justified in their eyes. Could it have been handled better..absolutely. Do people and businesses make mistakes.. uh yes. Do I think NCSoft regrets what they did... yes I do. I had several correspondences with people at NCSoft after the closure...and I can with all honesty say that they felt bad for the way things were handled. BUT... business is business and we don't always agree with decisions that are made by those with much higher positions than ourselves


Anyways... I tend to ramble. I just wanted to say that NCSoft is not the devil that some people try to make them out to be...and if people still after all this time can't see the good that NCSoft gave us...that's on them. I know I am grateful to NCSoft for letting me do something no other game has been able to do for me since 11/30/2012.

[Safehouse]

I am the exact opposite of those NCSoft naysayers. While I have only ever played one other NCSoft game (Guild Wars 2 for like a week)... I will say this: I am very grateful to NCSoft.


I never played an MMO until I played CoH... not one. Heck aside from some Super Mario Brothers... I never played video games. I started CoH a few weeks after launch..and played it until the last second. I had 3 accounts...all VIP... one at the start...one in late 2004..and another from March 2005. So why am I grateful to NCSoft...the company that closed down the only game I ever loved? Because if it weren't for them...I never would have had experienced CoH. 8 years I played CoH... hundreds of characters...hundreds (ok thousands) of hours of fun...all thanks in no small part to NCSoft. So why would I be angry at them? 8 years... that's a lot longer than I thought I would get. There was a time when things looked bleak in 2006 that Cryptic was going to focus less on CoH due to their deal for their planned Marvel game...this worried me greatly. Then when it came down to it... NCSoft took over as Cryptic exited the picture...in essence saving City of Heroes. So while others hold a grudge and vow to not come back if NCSoft has anything to do with the game...I hold no ill will towards the company that gave me 8 years of a wonderful game.


Was I angry when the announcement came...yes among other emotions. Did I attend the Unity rally...yes I did (AP 6). Did I sign the online petition...donate to the dev dinner.. yep. But you know what happened shortly after the closure...I came to the realization that what they did was justified in their eyes. Could it have been handled better..absolutely. Do people and businesses make mistakes.. uh yes. Do I think NCSoft regrets what they did... yes I do. I had several correspondences with people at NCSoft after the closure...and I can with all honesty say that they felt bad for the way things were handled. BUT... business is business and we don't always agree with decisions that are made by those with much higher positions than ourselves


Anyways... I tend to ramble. I just wanted to say that NCSoft is not the devil that some people try to make them out to be...and if people still after all this time can't see the good that NCSoft gave us...that's on them. I know I am grateful to NCSoft for letting me do something no other game has been able to do for me since 11/30/2012.

Beautifully put, eloquently worded. *Applause*

[Sinistar]

Really good point, about the involvement. Even if NCSoft were involved, I would probably still play the game. But I would also be nervous, given what happened last time. It comes down to trust for me, more than it does to anger or vengeance. I would probably be less attached to the game; I wouldn't allow myself to get too attached for fear of repeating history.

What makes me a bit more trusting here is that, while CoH would come back in maintenance mode, there would be other projects involved. That, for some reason, gives me a more stable foundation to work with than if it was just CoH coming back.

But, as you said, it seems like NCSoft would have little, if any, involvement, so I don't have trust issues. And the logo being there is not a personal affront to me.

The logo is not a big deal to me.

However as has been pointed out the shut down could have been handled better by NCsoft and as a result there are some players that will have trust issues.

The easiest way to fix those issues is that when the deal is done, the ink is dry and the game is coming back online, that the new COH Owners spell out nice in clear in plain English for all to read as to exactly what involvement, if any, that NCSoft will have. 

If it is no involvement, then state it clearly.  If there is some involvement then state it clearly without violating any terms of the sale or NDA's.

[Abraxus]

I care nothing about the logo.  They have the right to be recognized for the effort they put into the game.  But, even my resolve is being tested by their business methodology.  I know, I know!  Have faith....no news is good news!  I am trying, but even Joan of Arc would be having a crisis of faith by now! 

[Burnt Toast]

As I stated in the other thread... this pace is to be expected when dealing with what we are dealing with (disk image) and an international deal. I have seen deals of much smaller components take up to 1.5 years due to small hiccups. The problem is ... people expecting things to happen too quickly... that type of thinking is unrealistic and does nothing but lower morale and is a complete disservice to those fighting/negotiating to bring back CoH.

I care nothing about the logo.  They have the right to be recognized for the effort they put into the game.  But, even my resolve is being tested by their business methodology.  I know, I know!  Have faith....no news is good news!  I am trying, but even Joan of Arc would be having a crisis of faith by now! 

[Safehouse]

As I stated in the other thread... this pace is to be expected when dealing with what we are dealing with (disk image) and an international deal. I have seen deals of much smaller components take up to 1.5 years due to small hiccups. The problem is ... people expecting things to happen too quickly... that type of thinking is unrealistic and does nothing but lower morale and is a complete disservice to those fighting/negotiating to bring back CoH.

We're all eager to be back in game, and that eagerness can quickly become impatience.

A lot of us don't know how the world of business and negotiation works, so when "The Mask Comes Off" began on Sept. 1, we started thinking "any day now." Only now it's been three months since the mask came off, and now, those who don't see how the negotiations are going, those who have no insider info, are getting antsy. For now, all we can do is take deep breaths, check out Icon, settle for other games. I don't necessarily believe the "no news is good news" adage. No news is just that: no news.

But, when the deal goes one way or another, we will know. If business negotiations typicall take 1 - 1.5 years, as Burnt Toast is saying, then we're on schedule.

[Surelle]

I think the logical end question is not just about logos, but how much actual involvement NCsoft has with the game. Based on what I've read here, it seems like the answer is "none," which will help. If they still manage or are involved with the IP licensing company, that might be an issue.

I suspect NCSoft will always be involved, but that whomever financially backs the i23 Zombie Edition will downplay that involvement as much as possible-- and rightly so.  NCSoft has generated a lot of dislike and distrust in the MMO industry, and not just over the handling and closure of CoX.  But it's either that, or no dice.  So we roll with it and hope for the best.  I think it's pretty naive not to think NCSoft will still control the IP and server backup at least partially.

[Ironwolf]

I think there is control and then there is involvement.

If I were NCSoft and paid any attention to gamers, I would play this up as us listening to the gamers. That they "found a way" to bring back an old favorite. They may get a cut of leases for the IP - which would be fair enough and have their name on the game and its websites - which again to me is fair enough.

I never started this entire thing on anything but a business standpoint - I did not care why it was shut as much as would they listen to an effort to buy or return it? Yes, was the word I recieved back - they would listen - in their way. A number of people approached them but in a way that was contrary to their accepted business practices.

Know your enemy and try to make him your friend is one of the first rules of business. If you think NCSoft is bloodthirsty you really need to read about IBM and Intel. IBM started the term FUD Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. I am a huge nerd and some of the stories about what IBM used to do and what Intel did and does do to any threat is very interesting reading. In November 2009, Intel agreed to pay AMD $1.25 billion as part of a deal to settle all outstanding legal disputes between the two companies. It also involved a lot of cross license agreement equal to about $5 billion.

[Todogut]

I think the logical end question is not just about logos, but how much actual involvement NCsoft has with the game. Based on what I've read here, it seems like the answer is "none," which will help. If they still manage or are involved with the IP licensing company, that might be an issue.

On 12/5/2014, Chris "Warcabbit" Hare was interviewed on episode 76 of the Rolling 20s podcast. Chris comes on at the 2:08 mark. He described the plan to acquire the CoH IP:

What would happen is that a new company would be created, if everything goes well, with members from NCSoft and members who work at Missing Worlds Media to control and support the City of Heroes IP, which would then license it out to, for example, City of Titans or other places that seemed interested. So, it's kind of a one arm's reach sort of thing to protect both sides involved.

Had it been specified elsewhere that the holding company will consist of "members from NCSoft and members who work at Missing Worlds Media"? Does this mean that NCSoft will be part of the holding company and be involved ongoing in licensing the CoH IP?

Is Chris' statement just a different way of saying the same info as in Nate Downes' announcement? Or did Chris indicate some different/additional info?

[duane]

Is Chris' statement just a different way of saying the same info as in Nate Downes' announcement? Or did Chris indicate some different/additional info?

Unless Nate Downes explicitly posts it or says it directly then it's not news and just conjecture as we all sit in the Vacuum waiting for the Big Annoucement.

[Angel Phoenix77]

Unless Nate Downes explicitly posts it or says it directly then it's not news and just conjecture as we all sit in the Vacuum waiting for the Big Annoucement.

bingo , it would be interesting if the nc soft had a few ex workers or a few to over see the handling company is keeping good with the city of ip.