Author Topic: A PvP story.  (Read 2301 times)

Supermax

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A PvP story.
« on: February 24, 2015, 07:11:02 AM »
My experience with PvP was a love/hate relationship, which started with love, ended with hate, and went back and forth several times in between. I was probably one of the first to try PvP, playing it extensively on the test server before it ever went live. It was incredible. Tons of people, the ability to join a match literally any time you wanted, it was perfect. Lots of stuff was unbalanced, but it was fun. Zero trash talk, just fighting against actual people instead of a computer. I still remember the first time I spawned into a PvP match....and how I Total Focused the guy....and how incredible it was  ;D   I respecced all my toons in anticipation of PvP going live...

So it goes live on my Freedom sever, the most active server of all, and I go to the arena expecting to kick some ass.....and it's completely empty. So I check back 5 minutes later, 30 minutes later, half a day later......it's empty. I check it again and again for about a week, but it's basically impossible to find a match, and if you do, it's 1v1, which is 100% unbalanced. Damn it, I just respecced all my toons!!! So I respec all of them back to PvE.

Then the next day a friend I met on the test server asks me to join the PvP SG that's being formed...the first real PvP team in the game...the one that goes down in PvP lore as arguably the best team of all time, the only team that never loses a single match to anybody. I politely decline, because damn it, I just wasted 2 respecs on all my toons, and I don't even have any more on some toons! In hindsight, this was a mistake  :-[

A while later I get back into PvP when PvP zones go live, and it's fun. Zones are full all the time, you can easily get teams, and I become well known, especially in Siren's Call, where most of the action is. Arena is still completely dead on Freedom, so I avoid it. Then one day I get a random invite into a random PvE SG, and I randomly accept. Shortly afterward they start a PvP team, and I end up being the main blaster, because I'm one of like 3 people that has any PvP experience. The SG has a very relaxed atmosphere, where if you want to play, you get to play, even if you aren't good. We lose a lot, because we go up against teams that take this very seriously. But we realize that this is CoH, a game that's purposefully designed to prohibit serious PvP competition, so it's ok and long as people are having fun. I'm the top player in every match, even though we often lose, and it does get annoying sometimes, but hey, it's CoH PvP, a game where everything is decided by a random number generator. I still have fun.

Our players eventually get better, and we pick up some new guys, and we become a serious contender. But still, if someone that's clearly not in the starting lineup wants to play, he gets to play. Because that's what the SG is about. So we still lose quite a bit. I'm still the #1 blaster, but we have two new guys that are very clear #2 and #3.

Then I go on a trip to Europe for a couple weeks, and I come back to learn that I'm no longer the #1 blaster. I was replaced by the new guys, and I have to "prove" that I deserve to be #1. I get the sense that things are changing. The atmosphere seems different. All the mandatory team practices are just too much, and they usually consist of the starting lineup dominating whoever else happens to show up, which serves nobody any good. I start caring less and less, and a short while later quit arena PvP. My team eventually goes on to become the undisputed #1 team in CoH, but it's not really my team. Literally zero of the original players remain - they were replaced by a new group of young kids that had been kicked out of their previous two SG's for being immature brats. But yeah, the team becomes #1. The whole SG even gets special badges on the CoH forums, and I'm eligible for one, but I decline. The SG is a shell of itself. Instead of a group of close friends, it's a handful of arena PvP players that consider CoH PvP their calling in life...and some other people that nobody cares about. Lots of people quit the SG, some quit the game altogether, and it's really a completely different group of people from when I joined. "We" are #1 for a bit, and then we're overtaken by some other team, and then the cycle continues several times while PvP dies a slow death.

I go on to play zone PvP for a long time, but it becomes less and less popular after Issue 13, and eventually I quit PvP altogether and ride off into the sunset after over a year of PvE-only gameplay, where I don't miss PvP one bit. But looking back, I have to admit that some of my most fun memories in this game happened in PvP.

The moral of the story is...yes, you can win with a win-at-all-costs attitude...but at what cost? If you're playing in the Superbowl, yeah it's probably worth it. But in CoH PvP? I'm not so sure.  ;D

Floride

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Re: A PvP story.
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2015, 02:17:39 AM »
Thanks for sharing this. I love reading about people's experiences in-game. For most of us PvP was a savage, alien world we disliked and avoided, and it's wonderful to hear the stories from those who actually enjoyed it so much that it was their main reason for logging in. I'll never identify with what motivated those who loved it, so it's intriguing to have a glimpse into that world. Thanks Supermax!
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Supermax

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Re: A PvP story.
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2015, 05:25:47 AM »
Wow, thanks for the great feedback, I'm glad at least someone found it interesting. The arena PvP community really was a whole other world from the rest of CoH. Absolutely no doubt, it was the most elitist group of people in the game. And of course, that's the main thing that drove away potential new PvP'ers. It was really an exception to find a hardcore PvP'er that would go out of his way to help/educate someone else. Most would prefer to own them 50 times in a row until they leave the zone and vow never to PvP again. Pretty stupid to force people out of an already tiny community, but a lot of the PvP'ers were like 13-15 years old, so I guess they had an excuse for acting like idiots ;D

Since you may find it interesting, I'll share some of the main strategies in a PvP match, just to give you an idea of what was involved. Most people don't realize just how complex arena PvP was. I'd say that there were 4 main things that set great players/teams apart from the rest.

1. Movement and evasion. Super jump and super speed were 100% mandatory, as they were by far the fastest way to get around. You had to keep up, otherwise you were useless. If you tried joining a PvP team with fly or teleport, you'd be laughed at. You also had to be able to evade attackers by running away in a strategic manner. Before Issue 13, it was really easy to tell a good player from the rest, just by watching how they get away from an attack. Good players knew when to break away from a fight and run, and they could get away from practically any number of average players. Issue 13 ruined everything and made phase shift 100% mandatory, as that became pretty much the only way to get away from any attack (as soon as you got hit by anything, all travel powers got suppressed for like 10 secs).

2. Team makeup and cohesion. Arena PvP went through many cycles. Every loophole and glitch was exploited at some point...anything to get an advantage over the opposition. At one point, a Sonic Resonance toon was a 100% mandatory part of an 8 person team. Later on, you'd be laughed at if you brought one. Blasters were always the main damage dealers, but originally the best blaster was Ice/EM, then Fire/EM, then Psy/EM, and at the end Fire and Psy were about tied for the top build. If you tried using any blaster other than the current FotM, you'd be laughed at. Luckily, my main was a Fire/EM blaster. I started doing arena PvP with him when Ice/EM was still the FotM, but very shortly afterward, Fire/EM became the FotM. Who knows, maybe I had something to do with it. From start to finish, an Empath was part of every team. Didn't really matter the AT, just as long as they had Empathy. I have no doubt in my mind that the best Emps in the game were the top PvP Emps. Their reaction times and being able to save lives in split seconds, while avoiding enemy attacks (naturally emps were some of the most popular targets, due to their lack of self defense)...nothing in PvE even came close. So when they did play PvE, they really stood out from the average Empath.

3. Targeting. The only way to get a kill was to spike damage from several sources...otherwise the person would be healed by a teammate or phase shift. You had about 5 seconds to get the kill, which meant that like 3-4 people had to use their best 2-3 attacks, all at the same time, in a span of 5 secs. Obviously this level of coordination and teamwork pretty much required the use of a voice com program. Getting a kill required very fast targeting. Sometimes teams were purposefully put together to make targeting difficult, for example several Illusion controllers, each with 4 pets. When a target was called by the person in charge of targeting, you had to target the same person within seconds, otherwise it was too late. This was probably my personal weakest point. CoH made it very difficult to quickly select a specific target moving at superspeed levels, in the middle of like 20 possible targets. Spamming the "next target" button was a real skill :)

4. Loot. All top PvP'ers had the best loot possible...and earned none of it. All their toons were PL'd from level 1 to 50, and they automatically got all the best enhancements from their SG, because everybody else had the best loot, so you needed to be on the same level. Using SO's against fully IO'd opponents was a huge disadvantage. I was the exception. I never had anybody to PL me, and I never got any free stuff. And because PvP gave zero rewards and I played only PvP for many years, I basically had no advancement at all in terms of influence, levels, enhancement drops, etc....for several years! So I did play fully SO'd toons vs purpled out opponents. It wasn't easy.

Well, that's all for now. Hope it was at least slightly interesting.

MaidMercury

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Re: A PvP story.
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2015, 09:19:47 AM »
I tried PvP many years ago....think I was  level 28 or so....
A friend finally talked me into it, so we started battling....

biff, boom, pow.....we got bored and never tried that again...

However, we did have fun at Recluse's Victory, because we teamed up rather than fight each other
to take out turrets,capture bases....it was a nice alternative between running TF's.

Drauger9

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Re: A PvP story.
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2015, 10:24:40 AM »
Thanks for sharing your memories with us SuperMax.

It reminded me of my first pvp experience in City of Heroes. I joined around issue 11, my friend (who got me playing) and me was in a pvp zone. I can't remember what for but I'm sure it was recluse's victory. He was on his fire/kin troller and I was on my fire/thermal troller. When he was ganked by dual blades something. Of course I had no idea what was going on. So I just sat there and watch them. It was awe inspiring, the way they would evade each other's attacks ect... Eventually my friend decided he wasn't going to be able to take him. So he sends me a tell asking me to jump in. Me being new, I send a broadcast saying "Okay, I'll get him with my hold." The attack just laughed and laughed. LOL! I think at the end we all called it a draw and went our separate was.

I wasn't a pvper but I did give it an honest try threw out the time I played the game. The last attempt I made was with a ninja/poison MM. I think it was a good build and if I would of kept at it. Built up the PVP IOs he could of been a monster. :)

Maybe when the game goes live again, I'll remake him and see you inzone somewhere? :)

tumbleweedgamer

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Re: A PvP story.
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2015, 05:26:46 PM »
Sirens Call, I spent way to much time there but I loved it.  ;D
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Dollhouse

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Re: A PvP story.
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2015, 09:04:37 PM »
When playing PvP, I was almost exclusively an arena player on Triumph and Test servers, both casually and in tournaments. With a handful of exceptions, it was with a single character, a Kin/Psi fully spec'd for (pre-i13) PvP. Given her AT choices, obviously she was a team-only toon (being about useless in a solo duel), but she made an effective team force multiplier who was really hard for the other team to spike and take down. That's because Kin = always movement-enhanced, and unlike regular travel powers, those movement self-buffs (Siphon Speed and Inertial Reduction) didn't suppress on power activation...the result being she could usually break contact and get away, rushing from teammate to teammate to renew buffs.

On the comparatively rare occasions I did any zone PvP for purposes other than grabbing Warburg nukes or Shivans for PvE, I had a PvP-spec Ice/EM Blaster. I worked up a PvP-spec build for her, but really didn't get into zone PvP much (the PvP kiddie pool, to be blunt...). Fortunately, that build worked just fine in PvE, and that one was a favorite character, despite seldom being used for her original PvP purpose. Her forays into PvP zones were fun, though...as pretty much every zone PvP player assumed she was a PvE character just looking for temp powers or badges (being a catgirl and having a cutesy name probably had something to do with that...I kind of intended her as a Q-ship from the start...). Instead of the easy mark they expected, they got an Ice/Energy Melee Blaster with lots of movement and resistance buffs (and +perception enhancements to spot Stalkers).  Good times...

Supermax

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Re: A PvP story.
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2015, 03:46:38 AM »
Me being new, I send a broadcast saying "Okay, I'll get him with my hold."

Maybe when the game goes live again, I'll remake him and see you inzone somewhere?

Haha, great strategy! :) And I certainly hope so!


Supermax

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Re: A PvP story.
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2015, 04:08:24 AM »
zone PvP...(the PvP kiddie pool, to be blunt...)

See, that's the attitude that made PvP a lot less popular than it could have been. Did arena PvP take more skill than zone PvP? Not necessarily. Better ability to work well with a team, sure. But zone was so random, you never knew what you were going to get...which was the beauty of it. Getting away from a 10v1 gank in the zone, while soloing, required no less skill than getting away from a spike in the arena, where you were being buffed/healed by really good support.

I think the biggest reason a lot of arena PvP'ers had no respect for zone PvP was because they never really tried doing it alone. They'd come to a zone with a group of friends, dominate the few random solo people there, say "wow, these guys suck", and go back to the arena. It was very rare to see a top arena PvP'er in a zone without a bunch of his friends. And it was like an NBA team showing up at a random neighborhood basketball court, and then gloating when they beat a team of random 5'5" guys that had never played together before.

I mostly soloed in PvP zones, and I also played in the arena against some of the best of all time. The arena was definitely more fast paced, but the zones often provided a challenge you'd never see in the arena. The zones' biggest problem was that the sides were rarely well balanced. It was usually more people on one side...or more on the other. But when the numbers were even, it was pure gold, especially in PvP's peak before I13. I also really enjoyed how you could just log in and PvP...you didn't have a set date and time when you HAD to be there, regardless of any real life issues.