The SEGS thread.

[malonkey1]

There is an open-source MMO hosting project known as SEGS which is currently working on a CoH/CoV emulation called CoX which has recently begun collaborating with the geniuses here at the Titan Network. Is there any news on the fruits of out combined efforts?

[dwturducken]

There are about half a dozen things that I want to bug the ever-loving @#$% out of people about, but answering our every question takes time away from the doing of the things that we want to know status of.  Besides, I've not seen any delay in sharing of new information as it becomes available, which, and this needs to be said, I really appreciate.

[emu265]

There are about half a dozen things that I want to bug the ever-loving @#$% out of people about, but answering our every question takes time away from the doing of the things that we want to know status of.  Besides, I've not seen any delay in sharing of new information as it becomes available, which, and this needs to be said, I really appreciate.

Yeah, unfortunately DW is right.  I'd like to know a lot more than I do, but all the answers simply aren't available.  I'm sure we'll hear something as soon as possible.

[TonyV]

There is an open-source MMO hosting project known as SEGS which is currently working on a CoH/CoV emulation called CoX which has recently begun collaborating with the geniuses here at the Titan Network. Is there any news on the fruits of out combined efforts?

There's not much to say, they're working diligently on it.  It's kind of a long and arduous process reverse-engineering something like this.  For what it's worth, I'm in a big Skype chat group with the guys working on it, and there is a pretty steady stream of comments like, "Oh, now I see how that's being encoded!" and "Hmm, that will be a problem, the key is different every session."

We're not hiding anything, I promise.  We can't really put any kind of progress bar on our efforts because any pin on it would be meaningless.  We have no idea how long it will take to reach any kind of milestones.  I promise, though, we'll do our best to keep everyone up-to-date with what's going on.

[Codewalker]

We've decided that we need to spend less time reading and responding to forum posts and more time working on stuff.

What? >.>

[malonkey1]

We've decided that we need to spend less time reading and responding to forum posts and more time working on stuff.

What? >.>

I can respect that.

[Ampithere]

We've decided that we need to spend less time reading and responding to forum posts and more time working on stuff.

What? >.>

Please do. You're the ones that seem to have a good handle on things. Probably the best, last hope for CoX from the moment of the announcement.

[Codewalker]

I can respect that.

Thanks, we appreciate it

[emu265]

I can respect that.

Me too. Please keep up the good work guys. 

Important updates are a given, I'd think.  I have faith Tony, Codewalker and the others won't just leave important things in limbo. 

[Mantic]

This week I've seen the City of Heroes community react strongly to the NCSoft closure of Paragon Studios in many ways. Some are just angered and call for boycotts or blacklisting of NCSoft. Others are rallying behind any core developers who we hope are interested in acquiring the City of Heroes properties to manage independently, much as Turbine Games (later developers and publishers of Dungeons & Dragons Online and Lord Of The Rings Online) did with their seminal MMO Asheron's Call.

And then there are a host of individuals with, I believe, less magnanimous motives. From people trying to make money off the situation by posting Amazon links on Twitter to pipe-dreamers trying to hijack the City of Heroes community as a funding source for that pet MMO project they've been wanting to do for years. Even some of the players who only want to rescue City of Heroes itself seem to think of it as a personal investment opportunity, rather than the charitable support of developers who have been robbed of the product of a decade's work, or merely the player's honest desire to have the game continue to be available.

So, as the pessimist, curmudgeon, and contrarian that I am, I am NOT entirely heartened by all this player activity. In contrast to the rhetoric of several articles I do not believe "we are heroes." Hell, even though my ideal, for which I'm willing to donate whatever scant funds I can muster, is the transfer of ownership from NCSoft to the core development staff of Paragon Studios (or Cryptic, for that matter), I am no superhero. If legal options for the preservation of City of Heroes are flatly rejected, I will support any means whatever of accomplishing that, including the most blatantly illegal.

Better leaked code and tools (which I do hope some guy or gal currently at PS has the balls to secretly liberate -- most especially the tools) and/or reverse engineering leading to private servers than any legal alternative that leaves the game mothballed.

With all the logging of identities involved in forums like this, I am uncomfortable just saying that openly. I do fear corporate-owned legal authorities hunting me down for even speaking like this. But I don't think this "community" is serious if it is not willing to consider such things.

Think of it this way: with the game service discontinued and NCSoft stonewalling all legal channels for it's restoration, the ethical issues are different than in the case of emulation competing with an active service. Sometimes the letter of the law is not just.

[Ampithere]

This week I've seen the City of Heroes community react strongly to the NCSoft closure of Paragon Studios in many ways. Some are just angered and call for boycotts or blacklisting of NCSoft. Others are rallying behind any core developers who we hope are interested in acquiring the City of Heroes properties to manage independently, much as Turbine Games (later developers and publishers of Dungeons & Dragons Online and Lord Of The Rings Online) did with their seminal MMO Asheron's Call.

And then there are a host of individuals with, I believe, less magnanimous motives. From people trying to make money off the situation by posting Amazon links on Twitter to pipe-dreamers trying to hijack the City of Heroes community as a funding source for that pet MMO project they've been wanting to do for years. Even some of the players who only want to rescue City of Heroes itself seem to think of it as a personal investment opportunity, rather than the charitable support of developers who have been robbed of the product of a decade's work, or merely the player's honest desire to have the game continue to be available.

So, as the pessimist, curmudgeon, and contrarian that I am, I am NOT entirely heartened by all this player activity. In contrast to the rhetoric of several articles I do not believe "we are heroes." Hell, even though my ideal, for which I'm willing to donate whatever scant funds I can muster, is the transfer of ownership from NCSoft to the core development staff of Paragon Studios (or Cryptic, for that matter), I am no superhero. If legal options for the preservation of City of Heroes are flatly rejected, I will support any means whatever of accomplishing that, including the most blatantly illegal.

Better leaked code and tools (which I do hope some guy or gal currently at PS has the balls to secretly liberate -- most especially the tools) and/or reverse engineering leading to private servers than any legal alternative that leaves the game (not the IP, which is a superficial aspect, but the game) mothballed.

With all the logging of identities involved in forums like this, I am uncomfortable just saying that openly. I do fear corporate-owned legal authorities hunting me down for even speaking like this. But I don't think this "community" is serious if it is not willing to consider such things.

Think of it this way: with the game service discontinued and NCSoft stonewalling all legal channels for it's restoration, the ethical issues are different than in the case of emulation competing with an active service. Sometimes the letter of the law is not just.

I'm not keen on responding to a post of this sort, but you are relatively non hostile. You are also, I think, trying to be constructive. But the situation is not as simple as you present. Even if emulation is successful, it would not draw in the numbers of players necessary to reach something like the current live game. It will take considerable amounts of time before any new content is rolled out if any new content is rolled out, and that will naturally cause a loss of players as well. Then there's the fact we couldn't even make modest internet posts without inviting disaster (however unlikely that disaster might be). If emulation is successful, it will be a holdover for "Plan Z" and nothing more.

You seem to doubt that the CoX (or Titan) community is in fact a community, and that is an error in your judgement. Moreover, you are presenting yourself as an opponent to the goals of the Titan team and the community. I'm nearly certain that the vast majority of us want to see the property in the hands of Paragon Studios. I understand your concerns and appreciate you offering your opinion. I would just suggest that you try to do so in a more overtly constructive manner from here out. Most of us are proud of what our community has pulled together to accomplish. What we've done already is impressive, and it's only the first week. Things are still just getting started. Who you choose to identify with and communicate with is your own business, but please don't criticize us for choosing the community that we have.

[Reiraku]

I just wanted to say good luck. We're all counting on you

[Mantic]

Ampithere: I am non hostile to any effort to restore City of Heroes/Villains in any form. I am overtly hostile to the proposed "Plan Z," which I view as hijacking whatever community has amassed around City of Heroes for the purpose of developing a necessarily, and unavoidably different game (not City of Heroes/Villains).

Don't misunderstand, I do not consider emulation or bootlegging to be anywhere near ideal. And we agree, any such effort is hamstringed by fear of open discussion. But I disagree that emulation would be a placeholder for the hijacking "Plan Z" knockoff. Rather, I see it as keeping the original game and related data visible, and serving as evidence that potentially commercial interest remains, not in a near-generic superhero franchise but in the existing game and technology, should there ever be a means of acquiring it legally from NCSoft.

[Tiberian Fiend]

Don't misunderstand, I do not consider emulation or bootlegging to be anywhere near ideal. And we agree, any such effort is hamstringed by fear of open discussion. But I disagree that emulation would be a placeholder for the hijacking "Plan Z" knockoff. Rather, I see it as keeping the original game and related data visible, and serving as evidence that potentially commercial interest remains, not in a near-generic superhero franchise but in the existing game and technology, should there ever be a means of acquiring it legally from NCSoft.

That's just silly.  No company is going to buy a game just because a few people play on a private server, and NCSoft will sell it to the players if it wants to, regardless of whether we're playing on a private server or not.  If we haven't heard anything by November 30th, we'll need to start planning for a post-CoH future.

[Omega Mark V]

I just wanted to say good luck. We're all counting on you

rofl.

Still, great work guys! We have all our bases covered I'd think. Now it's just time to run that extra mile to try to Save CoX more and more.

[SithRose]

Ampithere: I am non hostile to any effort to restore City of Heroes/Villains in any form. I am overtly hostile to the proposed "Plan Z," which I view as hijacking whatever community has amassed around City of Heroes for the purpose of developing a necessarily, and unavoidably different game (not City of Heroes/Villains).

Don't misunderstand, I do not consider emulation or bootlegging to be anywhere near ideal. And we agree, any such effort is hamstringed by fear of open discussion. But I disagree that emulation would be a placeholder for the hijacking "Plan Z" knockoff. Rather, I see it as keeping the original game and related data visible, and serving as evidence that potentially commercial interest remains, not in a near-generic superhero franchise but in the existing game and technology, should there ever be a means of acquiring it legally from NCSoft.

I'd like to touch in on this briefly, since I happen to be one of the people discussing Plan Z. Everyone who's been working on Plan Z has actively been stating repeatedly that this is a last ditch, if all other plans fail, idea that we do not want to have to implement. I've actively reminded the entire forum that we must NOT make any attempt to distract the people who have the skills, contacts, and information to actually make a meaningful effort towards saving City of Heroes. Let me stress again, saving Paragon City is the desired goal. We WANT to have our efforts in the City Sunset board be completely unnecessary. We're NOT trying to hijack recovery or salvation efforts. We're making an active effort to keep from doing that. For example, I have absolutely no contacts in the video game industry who can help, I have no investor contacts, and no technical expertise to offer. The ONLY thing I can offer towards saving COH is writing letters and using social media. Several others are in similar situations.

With that said, Plan Z is being modeled with an eye towards being the last ditch effort to keep a superhero game with the feel and general style/community of COH on the boards. Within that framework, we are assuming that all other efforts will fail and that we will have no legal use of any COH IP. As such, if it's going to be a viable option, we have to avoid ANY use of COH IP that is not open source. Otherwise we're open to a lawsuit from NCSoft, which would kill any crowdfunded MMO. I will stress that absolutely nothing except brainstorming and initial development is happening, and that we will all (I very much hope) defer to the Titan experts such as TonyV and Codewalker. They are busy. We are not going to distract them from what they are doing. We have NO intention of attempting to get any funding until we've heard from them AND NCSoft flat out says that there is no possible way they will sell COH's IP or code.

If all else fails, Plan Z needs to be ready to pitch to investors on December 1st. Which means that development, EVEN IF it's a complete waste of time (please let it be a waste of time), needs to be happening NOW. Yes, it's hamstrung slightly by actively avoiding discussion with the most tech-savvy people in Titan Network. That's ok. We're NOT going to distract them until they come to us. We do NOT want the community split up. Saving COH is still the absolute top priority.

[castorcorvus]

Well put SithRose. You captured our goals perfectly.

[nemerle]

As for current level of cooperation.
Titan's devs are hard at work to gather whatever data they can before the servers go down, so at the moment no active cooperation takes place.

[Mister Bison]

As for current level of cooperation.
Titan's devs are hard at work to gather whatever data they can before the servers go down, so at the moment no active cooperation takes place.

Well it's just a question of priority.

If one does not know what currently happens, how can one make the new program do it :S

[GuyPerfect]

Precisely. We won't even start implementing any new software until we've thoroughly documented how the client and server communicate with one another.