Author Topic: Make Hill & Knowlton Strategies feel the heat?  (Read 4171 times)

frostcoh

  • Minion
  • **
  • Posts: 49
Make Hill & Knowlton Strategies feel the heat?
« on: September 27, 2012, 03:57:10 PM »
H&K Strategies does the PR for NcSoft.  I have a feeling NcSoft isn't high up on H&K's list right now this being a political season etc.  Do we think maybe we need to start making (polite) phone calls to them alerting the company to the issues that NcSoft is having due to bad PR? 

I'm trying to get #savecoh right now to flood their #hkstart tag with this document don't know if it will go anywhere though.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjrAo1HdYNiddGFha0dnTzF3OEE2Nm4wUlRwSWlMRmc#gid=0

frostcoh

  • Minion
  • **
  • Posts: 49
Re: Make Hill & Knowlton Strategies feel the heat?
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2012, 04:08:19 PM »
Awww... look who was stupid enough to allow wall posts from anyone.


https://www.facebook.com/hkstrategies

StarRanger4

  • Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 112
Re: Make Hill & Knowlton Strategies feel the heat?
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2012, 04:12:24 PM »
*sigh*

Ummm, My advice is to not.  This is a PR firm.  First of all, they're just a contractor.  They give their advice to NC Soft, but its up to NC Soft to take it or not.

Second of all, THIS IS A PR FIRM.  Are you SURE you wanna draw negative attention from people who DO THIS FOR A LIVING???

DrakeGrimm

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 742
Re: Make Hill & Knowlton Strategies feel the heat?
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2012, 04:14:49 PM »
While I advise against poking the sleeping bear with a sharp stick, I do find it amusingly amateurish that their FB page is set that way.
We are the crazy ones, the mavericks, the dreamers, the forgotten sons. We color outside the lines for fun. We are the crazy ones! - "The Crazy Ones," Stellar Revival

"We put ourselves in "the attitude of heroes"--and we all became a little more heroic." - VV

frostcoh

  • Minion
  • **
  • Posts: 49
Re: Make Hill & Knowlton Strategies feel the heat?
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2012, 04:19:06 PM »
While I advise against poking the sleeping bear with a sharp stick, I do find it amusingly amateurish that their FB page is set that way.

HELLLLLLO, YOU'D THINK A PR FIRM WOULD KNOW BETTER!

I used caps, because, yes, I was screaming in my head when I typed that.

EClark

  • Lieutenant
  • ***
  • Posts: 56
Re: Make Hill & Knowlton Strategies feel the heat?
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2012, 04:19:44 PM »
This could just as easily backfire and make all of us look bad.

I would like to be excused from the blast radius, sir.

DrakeGrimm

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 742
Re: Make Hill & Knowlton Strategies feel the heat?
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2012, 04:20:14 PM »
This could just as easily backfire and make all of us look bad.

I would like to be excused from the blast radius, sir.

Permission granted, soldier. >.>
We are the crazy ones, the mavericks, the dreamers, the forgotten sons. We color outside the lines for fun. We are the crazy ones! - "The Crazy Ones," Stellar Revival

"We put ourselves in "the attitude of heroes"--and we all became a little more heroic." - VV

Segev

  • Plan Z: Interim Producer
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,573
Re: Make Hill & Knowlton Strategies feel the heat?
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2012, 04:24:04 PM »
Heroes and Gentlevillains, let me remind you that talking to the PR firm in a mass media/social media format is not a bad idea. Just remember that we are men and women of poise, taste, and professionalism. Leave your Brutes and your Blasters aside, and let the Masterminds and Defenders speak to them. Be professional. Be polite. Do not assume they have not seen the burning bubble, but politely point out the highlights to them just in case something has been overlooked in their busy business day.

It cannot hurt; PR firms are not in business to trash people for trying to bring data to their attention. Don't attack; treat them as interested parties. Remember; the man who rules the world best will be the one who has made all in it his allies.

DrakeGrimm

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 742
Re: Make Hill & Knowlton Strategies feel the heat?
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2012, 04:25:34 PM »
Heroes and Gentlevillains, let me remind you that talking to the PR firm in a mass media/social media format is not a bad idea. Just remember that we are men and women of poise, taste, and professionalism. Leave your Brutes and your Blasters aside, and let the Masterminds and Defenders speak to them. Be professional. Be polite. Do not assume they have not seen the burning bubble, but politely point out the highlights to them just in case something has been overlooked in their busy business day.

It cannot hurt; PR firms are not in business to trash people for trying to bring data to their attention. Don't attack; treat them as interested parties. Remember; the man who rules the world best will be the one who has made all in it his allies.

...what about the Dominators? *shifty eyes*
We are the crazy ones, the mavericks, the dreamers, the forgotten sons. We color outside the lines for fun. We are the crazy ones! - "The Crazy Ones," Stellar Revival

"We put ourselves in "the attitude of heroes"--and we all became a little more heroic." - VV

frostcoh

  • Minion
  • **
  • Posts: 49
Re: Make Hill & Knowlton Strategies feel the heat?
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2012, 04:26:21 PM »
Heroes and Gentlevillains, let me remind you that talking to the PR firm in a mass media/social media format is not a bad idea. Just remember that we are men and women of poise, taste, and professionalism. Leave your Brutes and your Blasters aside, and let the Masterminds and Defenders speak to them. Be professional. Be polite. Do not assume they have not seen the burning bubble, but politely point out the highlights to them just in case something has been overlooked in their busy business day.

It cannot hurt; PR firms are not in business to trash people for trying to bring data to their attention. Don't attack; treat them as interested parties. Remember; the man who rules the world best will be the one who has made all in it his allies.

That.

Nafaustu

  • Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 105
Re: Make Hill & Knowlton Strategies feel the heat?
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2012, 04:27:05 PM »
Yeah, not really a fan of this.   This is not good will, and if we're going to attack, this is not who we want to talk.

Basically.  If you're going to physically protest a Corporation, don't hassle the private security guard.   He isn't really a representative of what you hate.   Hes a guy with a job.   You hate the corporation and its ideology, not the folks that want to eat and happen to work there.   And even though he's just a guy, he totally has the ability to order you off. (Or in the case of some private security, mace you, haul you off and THEN call the cops and still be in the right :D)

PR firms are 'Image' security.   Right now that security guard is leaving us alone.   I don't want to get maced because you said "Come at me, bro" :D

I don't think it will help our efforts.   We need to stay on target.

(Apologies for any typos!)
~Catgirl Eve

frostcoh

  • Minion
  • **
  • Posts: 49
Re: Make Hill & Knowlton Strategies feel the heat?
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2012, 04:29:44 PM »
Yeah, not really a fan of this.   This is not good will, and if we're going to attack, this is not who we want to talk.

Basically.  If you're going to physically protest a Corporation, don't hassle the private security guard.   He isn't really a representative of what you hate.   Hes a guy with a job.   You hate the corporation and its ideology, not the folks that want to eat and happen to work there.   And even though he's just a guy, he totally has the ability to order you off. (Or in the case of some private security, mace you, haul you off and THEN call the cops and still be in the right :D)


This isn't about attacking HK this is about making them aware they are representing a client with a serious PR issue, and how that client can fix it (sell the IP).
PR firms are 'Image' security.   Right now that security guard is leaving us alone.   I don't want to get maced because you said "Come at me, bro" :D

I don't think it will help our efforts.   We need to stay on target.

(Apologies for any typos!)
~Catgirl Eve

DrakeGrimm

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 742
Re: Make Hill & Knowlton Strategies feel the heat?
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2012, 04:33:39 PM »
Joking aside, there's no harm in civil and polite discourse with the security guard. Security guards will generally not mace you if you make a few polite inquiries along the lines of 'are you aware of this' and 'do you have an actual response to this'. I strongly urge that we do not, as a community, pound their gates. If inquiries are made, I advise a few individuals of sufficient tact and gentility approach them.

Am I afraid of the backlash these guys could dish out if things go ugly? Not really. But that doesn't mean I want the headache of stomping them flat, either. It's better to play nice-nice with the angry bear than it is to kick it in the face.
We are the crazy ones, the mavericks, the dreamers, the forgotten sons. We color outside the lines for fun. We are the crazy ones! - "The Crazy Ones," Stellar Revival

"We put ourselves in "the attitude of heroes"--and we all became a little more heroic." - VV

frostcoh

  • Minion
  • **
  • Posts: 49
Re: Make Hill & Knowlton Strategies feel the heat?
« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2012, 04:42:07 PM »

EClark

  • Lieutenant
  • ***
  • Posts: 56
Re: Make Hill & Knowlton Strategies feel the heat?
« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2012, 04:51:40 PM »
a single polite, non threatening e-mail asking what their position is on the Paragon Studios/City of Heroes situation cannot hurt. 

Polite, discrete, subtle.... passive.

Nafaustu

  • Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 105
Re: Make Hill & Knowlton Strategies feel the heat?
« Reply #15 on: September 27, 2012, 04:54:53 PM »
Joking aside, there's no harm in civil and polite discourse with the security guard. Security guards will generally not mace you if you make a few polite inquiries along the lines of 'are you aware of this' and 'do you have an actual response to this'. I strongly urge that we do not, as a community, pound their gates. If inquiries are made, I advise a few individuals of sufficient tact and gentility approach them.

Am I afraid of the backlash these guys could dish out if things go ugly? Not really. But that doesn't mean I want the headache of stomping them flat, either. It's better to play nice-nice with the angry bear than it is to kick it in the face.

This i'm less opposed to, I just get very concern whenever facebook flooding gets involved.   Make me think of troll tactics and we've been awesome about avoiding those so far.   If we want to have our PR people touch their PR people that's something else.

Siberian Spring

  • Lieutenant
  • ***
  • Posts: 53
    • Live Creatively
Re: Make Hill & Knowlton Strategies feel the heat?
« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2012, 05:17:53 PM »
An angry mob is easy to turn back on itself, PR-wise. It's hard to turn polite against a cause. Stay polite, my friends.

WanderingAries

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 321
  • @WanderingAries /\ Mostly on Torch
Re: Make Hill & Knowlton Strategies feel the heat?
« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2012, 11:43:39 PM »
Heroes and Gentlevillains, let me remind you that talking to the PR firm in a mass media/social media format is not a bad idea. Just remember that we are men and women of poise, taste, and professionalism. Leave your Brutes and your Blasters aside, and let the Masterminds and Defenders speak to them. Be professional. Be polite. Do not assume they have not seen the burning bubble, but politely point out the highlights to them just in case something has been overlooked in their busy business day.

It cannot hurt; PR firms are not in business to trash people for trying to bring data to their attention. Don't attack; treat them as interested parties. Remember; the man who rules the world best will be the one who has made all in it his allies.

*snickers*
Somebody's never been on Pinn after dark apparantly. :-p

I mean, +1
Seriously though, why bring up the PR firm or attempt to involve them at all. They have no real bearing on what's going on as far as I can tell.
Find me on Homecoming:
https://www.homecomingservers.com

Victoria Victrix

  • Team Wildcard
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,886
  • If you don't try, you have failed.
    • Mercedes Lackey
Re: Make Hill & Knowlton Strategies feel the heat?
« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2012, 11:50:00 PM »
It is, however, a VERY good idea to contact them, and make sure they know how thoroughly their client is shooting itself in the foot.

Because, among other things, the client can turn around and demand their money back since the PR firm did not sufficiently protect it from shooting itself in the foot.

We're doing them a service, really.
I will go down with this ship.  I won't put my hands up in surrender.  There will be no white flag above my door.  I'm in love, and always will be.  Dido

Osborn

  • Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 188
Re: Make Hill & Knowlton Strategies feel the heat?
« Reply #19 on: September 27, 2012, 11:53:11 PM »
These guys don't have any say in what goes down. They're a firm to make NCSoft look better, but they don't choose what NCSoft does. At worst they just polish the turd. Maybe they could advise them to sell or maybe they've advised them to remain silent as a way to generate good PR, but either way they're not the ones actually making any decisions. If anything they've probably already made them aware of the negative PR they have and what they can do about it.

This would be like trying to convince a fry cook at McDonalds I frequent to have him sell my car to you. It makes no sense.

DrakeGrimm

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 742
Re: Make Hill & Knowlton Strategies feel the heat?
« Reply #20 on: September 27, 2012, 11:55:13 PM »
We don't need to make the PR firm feel the heat. We just have to let them know the stove's on.
We are the crazy ones, the mavericks, the dreamers, the forgotten sons. We color outside the lines for fun. We are the crazy ones! - "The Crazy Ones," Stellar Revival

"We put ourselves in "the attitude of heroes"--and we all became a little more heroic." - VV

Victoria Victrix

  • Team Wildcard
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,886
  • If you don't try, you have failed.
    • Mercedes Lackey
Re: Make Hill & Knowlton Strategies feel the heat?
« Reply #21 on: September 27, 2012, 11:56:12 PM »
These guys don't have any say in what goes down. They're a firm to make NCSoft look better, but they don't choose what NCSoft does. At worst they just polish the turd. Maybe they could advise them to sell or maybe they've advised them to remain silent as a way to generate good PR, but either way they're not the ones actually making any decisions. If anything they've probably already made them aware of the negative PR they have and what they can do about it.

This would be like trying to convince a fry cook at McDonalds I frequent to have him sell my car to you. It makes no sense.

Not entirely true.  When one's PR firm comes to you in hysterics saying "this is beginning to have impact in the marketplace and we can't save you", companies generally start listening.

And if the PR firm can point to one thing--like being willing to sell the CoH IP and ALL of this will go away--companies generally at least take that into consideration.
I will go down with this ship.  I won't put my hands up in surrender.  There will be no white flag above my door.  I'm in love, and always will be.  Dido

Rae

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 644
  • Journo/PR: The Phoenix Project
Re: Make Hill & Knowlton Strategies feel the heat?
« Reply #22 on: September 27, 2012, 11:57:20 PM »
One thing I noticed from their FB page is that they have recently lost one of their top guys, who died.

So..you know. If you feel you need to approach them, please consider that.  We don't want to be, or look, disrespectful.
--
@Vandellia
Virtue - Vandellia / Unseen Scarlet

Twitter: @Skybloopink

Turjan

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 270
  • You cannot kill a dream
Re: Make Hill & Knowlton Strategies feel the heat?
« Reply #23 on: September 28, 2012, 12:03:11 AM »
Folks, the one group of people who are likely to know exactly how much panic (or otherwise) is going on behind the scenes is the group of people hired to spin the corporate face to the public.

Which means criticising NCSoft to H&K's face is like waving a cap gun at a battle scarred mercenary.
An empty cap gun.

It is a PR company's job to speak with a forked tongue. They have to spin the facts about their clients to make those clients look good - and as you'd expect, in order to do that, they need to be in possession of at least some of said facts.

Sure, try to strike up a friendly conversation with them if you like, but remember that to them, you are not a friend. You are someone who's turned up out of the blue with a bunch of criticisms of one of their clients. So do not expect them to respond positively to any advance you might make - if they respond at all.

And if they do respond...don't be surprised if their response makes us look bad. Because their clients pay their wages, not us.

To paraphrase our own slogan : They are Public Relations - spin is what they do.

Osborn

  • Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 188
Re: Make Hill & Knowlton Strategies feel the heat?
« Reply #24 on: September 28, 2012, 12:18:21 AM »
Not entirely true.  When one's PR firm comes to you in hysterics saying "this is beginning to have impact in the marketplace and we can't save you", companies generally start listening.

And if the PR firm can point to one thing--like being willing to sell the CoH IP and ALL of this will go away--companies generally at least take that into consideration.

Maybe I'm giving H&KS too much credit and NCSoft too little, but if we're doing as much damage to their PR as you're assuring me we are (and I'll take your word on that because I frankly don't know how hard we've hit them and you're the one with the inside ear not me) then it seems likely that a business devoted to PR would had noticed that already, considering that's their entire job.

It seems more likely to me that NCSoft is either being coached by them to stay silent by their PR firm (which, me being a pessimist, I could see happening, because gamers have a sort of reputation for being feckless and easily distracted or discouraged, so maybe they're hoping to just stay silent until we just get tired of this and go "Eh, well I'm not winning and I'm not going to punish myself by not playing GW2, so I'm going to buy that now", which is pretty much the attitude that allows EA, Ubisoft and Activision to exist at all) or (realistically more likely) has just disregarded H&KS' advice to do what they want.

NCSoft's leadership, to be honest has seemed to be a mixture of terribly incompetent and massively arrogant. They're holding most of the cards and they know it and it doesn't seem to matter to them that a few of them are facing the wrong way or from an UNO deck, or that they're folding or chewing on them. So it wouldn't surprise me if some western firm came up and just threw a fit about how they're circling the drain and they were like "Meh, I got this" as they continued to poke their eye out.

But you know, if you guys think it'll work, have at it, I guess. I just don't expect this is the best source of our attention.

frostcoh

  • Minion
  • **
  • Posts: 49
Re: Make Hill & Knowlton Strategies feel the heat?
« Reply #25 on: September 28, 2012, 03:14:47 AM »
Maybe I'm giving H&KS too much credit and NCSoft too little, but if we're doing as much damage to their PR as you're assuring me we are (and I'll take your word on that because I frankly don't know how hard we've hit them and you're the one with the inside ear not me) then it seems likely that a business devoted to PR would had noticed that already, considering that's their entire job.

It seems more likely to me that NCSoft is either being coached by them to stay silent by their PR firm (which, me being a pessimist, I could see happening, because gamers have a sort of reputation for being feckless and easily distracted or discouraged, so maybe they're hoping to just stay silent until we just get tired of this and go "Eh, well I'm not winning and I'm not going to punish myself by not playing GW2, so I'm going to buy that now", which is pretty much the attitude that allows EA, Ubisoft and Activision to exist at all) or (realistically more likely) has just disregarded H&KS' advice to do what they want.

NCSoft's leadership, to be honest has seemed to be a mixture of terribly incompetent and massively arrogant. They're holding most of the cards and they know it and it doesn't seem to matter to them that a few of them are facing the wrong way or from an UNO deck, or that they're folding or chewing on them. So it wouldn't surprise me if some western firm came up and just threw a fit about how they're circling the drain and they were like "Meh, I got this" as they continued to poke their eye out.

But you know, if you guys think it'll work, have at it, I guess. I just don't expect this is the best source of our attention.

My goal with bringing this up here and on twitter, was more of the "multi-pronged attack advocacy" idea.  Let them (the PR company) know we know who they are, and we know NcSoft's rep is being damaged (because of Nc's own actions).  This is not meant to be a large focus, just something I'm going to needle them with once a week or so until CoH is dead and buried, or is rezzed.

frostcoh

  • Minion
  • **
  • Posts: 49
Re: Make Hill & Knowlton Strategies feel the heat?
« Reply #26 on: September 28, 2012, 03:18:44 AM »
I think they are hearing us, their #hkstrat tag now only has stuff from COH.