Author Topic: Status Update (November 13)  (Read 42688 times)

TonyV

  • Titan Staff
  • Elite Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 2,175
    • Paragon Wiki
Status Update (November 13)
« on: November 13, 2012, 09:55:17 PM »

blue storm

  • Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 136
  • #savecoh
    • Freedom Academy
Re: Status Update (November 13)
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2012, 10:07:30 PM »
Tony, thanks, as usual for taking the time to keep us posted. The Titan Network is and will remain our beacon of hope in these difficult times.

And since we are heroes, we will stand tall and remain long after the lights have gone dark over the skies of Paragon, waiting for the moment where we will soar again over Atlas Park (33) !
--


WildFire15

  • Lieutenant
  • ***
  • Posts: 96
Re: Status Update (November 13)
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2012, 10:44:27 PM »
Thanks for the update Tony. Good to hear some of Paragon Studios' former employees have found work.

HEATSTROKE

  • Lovin' bein' an
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 992
Re: Status Update (November 13)
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2012, 10:54:10 PM »
Thanks Tony..

 Its not just a game.. I made a toon called Sunstroke in honor of my first child. Two years old and he would sit on my lap at the PC and press the space bar to watch His level 50 Shield/Fire tank jump up and down..

 Its not just a game to some of us..

CFIndustries

  • Underling
  • *
  • Posts: 15
Re: Status Update (November 13)
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2012, 11:04:11 PM »
Thanks for the update. And all the best of luck to everyone brave and talented enough to soldier on with Plan Z. May the lawyers ignore you, the donations support you, and great talent find you.

Cinnder

  • Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 246
Re: Status Update (November 13)
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2012, 11:40:14 PM »
Thanks very much for the update, Tony.  You may not be specifically leading some threads of this effort, but you remain our overall "spiritual" leader, so it's good to hear your eloquent voice again.

NecrotechMaster

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 388
  • is there a badge for that?
Re: Status Update (November 13)
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2012, 11:47:51 PM »
thanks for the update tony, i expected about as much since i been keeping track with a few of the specific threads such as the stockwatch

to throw out the little bit of villain speak:

*twirls evil mustache* everything is going according to plan... *evil laugh*

Minotaur

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 612
Re: Status Update (November 13)
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2012, 12:08:07 AM »
Several more of the devs have actually found work:

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=298279 is the thread that's being updated, current state below.

Sean "Dr. Aeon" McCann confirmed today he is working on Star Trek Online over at Cryptic, at least according to his Twitter account.

Andy "Zwillinger" Belford is now at Electronic Arts.

Fire Man (aka Bass Ackwards) is now at Trion Worlds.

Phil "Synapse" Zeleski is working for Cryptic Studios.

Hosun "Black Pebble" Lee is working for Epic Games.

Nate "Second Measure" Birkholz is working for Z2Live.

Jeff "Arbiter Hawk" Hamilton is also at Cryptic Studios.

Leo "Honey Badger" Braz de Cunha is at Gazillion Entertainment.

Destin Bales is a Senior Producer at Riot Games.

Neal Kettler is a Software Architect at Riot Games.

Jason Lee is a UI Engineer at Storm8.

Andy Maurer is Online Engineer at Sledgehammer Games.

Tim "Black Scorpion" Sweeney is at Capcom.

Keetsie "Tunnel Rat" Braz da Cunha is at Toys for Bob.

Quote
Second of all, work is still being done on reverse engineering the server.  This work is going very well.  I honestly think at this point it's not a matter of if anything can be salvaged, it's a matter of how much and the legalities of the situation.  It's definitely something we'll be following up on and letting people know about as soon as possible.

This really troubles me as the legalities are not in our favour. I'm not sure I can associate myself with an effort that is doing something which is IMO illegal. This needs to be COMPLETELY separate from Titan or Plan Z does, otherwise I will find it very difficult to participate. The way the law is, people have been extradited from the UK to the US for less than this and no I'm not joking.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2012, 12:17:26 AM by Minotaur »

Surelle

  • Guest
Re: Status Update (November 13)
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2012, 02:34:19 AM »
Thanks a whole bunch for the update, Tony!

And I'm glad so many former devs have found other work-- even though it breaks my heart to see them all broken apart like that.  And it sure doesn't look like there's much of Paragon Studios left to bring another game to fruition through kickstarter or what-have-you....  Oh well, I'm glad they safely landed on their feet, and all those others games will be so much better off for them all being there....

MishaFox

  • Minion
  • **
  • Posts: 40
Re: Status Update (November 13)
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2012, 03:13:51 AM »
Thanks for the update! My own thoughts on what NCSoft is in Bunker mentality. They have closed their mind to doing anything new or different. All they are doing is hunkering down, ignoring the whole thing and hoping December 1 comes soon!  I am reminded of the one Vietnam battle when a firebase was attacked. The commanders in charge of the south Vietnamese troops ran into a bunker sealed the doors shut and ignored the whole battle. They didn't come out till the fight was over.

Me heart and prayers go out to Moonfyire101 and her father.

LT. Couper

  • Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 119
  • The battle won't end until it's won!
Re: Status Update (November 13)
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2012, 04:44:41 AM »
Thanks much for this update. It's just plain mind-boggling that NCSoft can't see how ending CoH has brought us even closer together as a community. In any case, now matter what goes down Nov. 30th, one way or another, City of Heroes will rise again.
"Heroes may die, but heroism never shall." ~Cyrus "Breakneck" Thompson

Codewalker

  • Hero of the City
  • Titan Network Admin
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,740
  • Moar Dots!
Re: Status Update (November 13)
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2012, 05:03:13 AM »
This really troubles me as the legalities are not in our favour.

Oh, how quickly we forget.

I'm assuming that you're typing that message on a PC running Windows, and/or a Mac with an Intel chip inside it?

Let me tell you a story. A story about two tiny unknown little companies, who in 1982, reverse engineered the IBM PC BIOS and built compatible systems. One of those was CDP, the other, Compaq Computer Corporation. The resulting explosion in popularity of the clones, not the original, caused it to overtake the single-manufacturer designs and cemented it as the foundation of what would become the PC revolution.

In 1986, a small chip manufacturer that IBM had been using to second-source the 8086 and 80286 had their contract abruptly terminated by Intel (probably because IBM was no longer the primary consumer of their chips). Instead of giving up, they started from scratch and reverse engineered the 80386, eventually producing a competing version. They did the same for every new feature that Intel added, eventually coming up with improvements of their own that Intel was forced to integrate or fall behind. The resulting processor war caused prices to drop dramatically, while rapidly advancing the technology much faster than it would have with Intel resting on their laurels. If you haven't guessed yet, the company in question was Advanced Micro Devices, better known as simply AMD.

There are many other examples as well. MS-DOS and PC-DOS (and CP/M for that matter). Xerox and Mac/Windows. The list goes on.

Yes, it can be a legal minefield and those companies eventually lawyered up, but it's a sad state of affairs that a few software giants have managed to lobby and brainwash people into thinking that the very thing they built their empires on is outright illegal. Being in constant irrational fear is no way to live.

See also: Samba, OpenOffice, etc.

Quote
This needs to be COMPLETELY separate from Titan or Plan Z does, otherwise I will find it very difficult to participate.

Well, hate to break it to you, but that along with other projects is something that Titan Skunkworks has been working on since long before Plan Z was a glimmer in anyone's eye. Splitting Plan Z off into its own legal entity is a good idea anyway for a variety of reasons.

If NCSoft wants to spend money for the sole purpose of harassing some hobbyists who pose no threat to them and only care to preserve some fragment of the work that Cryptic and Paragon poured their hearts into for historical record and posterity, then they're free to do so, and no amount of precautions can prevent that. That's assuming they can even pass muster with only rumor and people chatting on forums about the possibility to go on. It certainly won't help their stock value or public image, but it's their money to waste, especially since there isn't anything infringing for them to find.

However, I'd still prefer they didn't, because that would be annoying. So I for one am not going to mention it again, as that's something that can be done perfectly well behind the scenes.

Minotaur

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 612
Re: Status Update (November 13)
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2012, 05:47:23 AM »

If NCSoft wants to spend money for the sole purpose of harassing some hobbyists who pose no threat to them and only care to preserve some fragment of the work that Cryptic and Paragon poured their hearts into for historical record and posterity, then they're free to do so, and no amount of precautions can prevent that. That's assuming they can even pass muster with only rumor and people chatting on forums about the possibility to go on. It certainly won't help their stock value or public image, but it's their money to waste, especially since there isn't anything infringing for them to find.

However, I'd still prefer they didn't, because that would be annoying. So I for one am not going to mention it again, as that's something that can be done perfectly well behind the scenes.

They already harrassed the people who did this for TR, a C&D letter hardly costs a load of money.

It also gives NCSoft a reason to bash the Titan network (and plan Z by association) "they're a bunch of criminals anyway" etc.

I don't understand the Xerox reference (I used to work for them). Xerox merely decided they wouldn't fund the development of what would become Windows, so groups of ex Xerox research people went off and did it themselves as Apple/Microsoft with no particular clandestine activity.


dwturducken

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,152
  • Now available in stereo
Re: Status Update (November 13)
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2012, 05:51:29 AM »
Yeah, I think the precedent is more in favor of NCSoft than it would have been in the heady days when a company called Cyrix had market share. Seriously, not meaning that to be as condescending as it sounds.
I wouldn't use the word "replace," but there's no word for "take over for you and make everything better almost immediately," so we just say "replace."

johnrobey

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 952
  • CoH global: @Kristoff von Gelmini
Re: Status Update (November 13)
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2012, 07:37:34 AM »
Thanks for the update, Tony.   Looking forward to further coordinated efforts to Save City of Heroes.
"We must be the change we wish to see in the world." -- Mahatma Gandhi         "In every generation there has to be some fool who will speak the truth as he sees it." -- Boris Pasternak
"Where They Have Burned Books They Will End In Burning Human Beings" -- Heinrich Heine

TonyV

  • Titan Staff
  • Elite Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 2,175
    • Paragon Wiki
Re: Status Update (November 13)
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2012, 07:38:15 AM »
They already harrassed the people who did this for TR, a C&D letter hardly costs a load of money.

If I'm not mistaken (fair warning, I haven't researched the TR emulator so I might very well be), it was probably because the Tabula Rasa emulator also emulated the IP within the game.  That is illegal; it's copyright and/or trademark infringement.  They can also nail you if you distribute the game client; it will be up to players to keep their copy of it.  Those have never been the intention of the emulator, though.  It will only emulate the server, and will contain no City of Heroes intellectual property.  (Unless at some point we're able to acquire the IP from NCsoft or whatever company ends up with it if they are sold or go out of business.)

downix

  • Phoenix Project Technical Lead
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,962
Re: Status Update (November 13)
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2012, 07:47:17 AM »
If I'm not mistaken (fair warning, I haven't researched the TR emulator so I might very well be), it was probably because the Tabula Rasa emulator also emulated the IP within the game.  That is illegal; it's copyright and/or trademark infringement.  They can also nail you if you distribute the game client; it will be up to players to keep their copy of it.  Those have never been the intention of the emulator, though.  It will only emulate the server, and will contain no City of Heroes intellectual property.  (Unless at some point we're able to acquire the IP from NCsoft or whatever company ends up with it if they are sold or go out of business.)
Of course if someone were to also clone the client and release replacement IP, they'd be up the creek.

Elfin

  • Lieutenant
  • ***
  • Posts: 53
  • Never Fear Elfin Is Here
    • Ken's Super Sci Fi Page
Re: Status Update (November 13)
« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2012, 01:49:15 PM »
Thanks for the update Tony. COH both game, and community is one of a kind. I am not even sure a COH 2 would be close to the same. I have been playing a little in other games recently. STO, CO, and DCUO. They all have things I like, but none are the total package that COH delivers. Tomorrow I go back to work for 4 days, after that I will be playing COH a lot right up to the end. This week was fun. While I did play the before mentioned games some, I also played COH on Justice my home sever. We are continuing are weekly Hami Raids on Monday, and Wednesday nights, and Yesterday on Tuesday sadly we had are last Tanker Tuesday. I ended up doing 2 ITFs last night each with a different Tank. (Man Of Tomorrow, and Whittle Kenny) I wasn't there for the xp rewards, or anything was just having lots of fun. That is all it is about now. I don't bother with selling anymore, I give tons of influence away for events and such. I have billions why hoard it now. I would love for the game to be saved, and me broke. I made it once I can make it again. Like I say XP, Influence, Prestige, Salvage, and Recipes are not something I really care about now. I am just enjoying the fun, and the memories.

Codewalker

  • Hero of the City
  • Titan Network Admin
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,740
  • Moar Dots!
Re: Status Update (November 13)
« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2012, 02:01:26 PM »
They already harrassed the people who did this for TR, a C&D letter hardly costs a load of money.

And what exactly would they tell us to cease and desist doing? Discussing possibilities on a forum?

The intent has never been to run or server or host anything on our site that would give anyone a target for something like that. That would be dumb.

If they want to send a C&D to Plan Z, there's nothing stopping them from sending one regardless of what else is going on. Anybody can write a letter just to be jerks.

pogoman

  • Vox Populi
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 599
Re: Status Update (November 13)
« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2012, 02:19:58 PM »
Thank you very much for the update, TonyV!

And a very special thank you to everyone doing something to help save City of Heroes! Even if you think it isn't much, every little bit DOES help. Stay vigilant and keep fighting the good fight!

My heart and prayers also go out to Moonfyire101 and her father.




We are heroes! This is what we do!