Just going to throw this out there...

[Ultimate15]

Hello there!

First of all - greetings and salutations I've posted on these forums once a few months back, but I literally check Titan nearly everyday just to get the latest scoop on where we are in reviving our City of Heroes.

You guys rock. I applaud all your efforts. I miss this game like woah. <insert hug here>

Anywho - a couple threads down you'll see a topic that was started by @Knight Light regarding NCSoft's new investment in the San Diego based gaming development company Molten Games, Inc. I checked out their website, their Facebook (as I'm sure most of you did) and saw some of the comments people were leaving on their status updates/photos.

Would it be worth it to perhaps start a 'petition' (for some reason I hate that word) or perhaps just make EFFORTS in trying to convince Molten Games to look into reviving COH now that they have a direct partnership with NCSoft?

Feel free to let me know how great/horrible this idea is, because truthfully I'm quite the nuber when it comes to such things as coming up with ways to bring a game back from the dead. HOWEVER...truth time? Even if Google were to have a positive reaction to what I'm sure was a fantastic sales pitch (they haven't responded yet, have they?) we would still have that inconvenient truth of an obstacle that is NCSoft's unwillingness to sell the IP. I may be completely wrong here, but I'm inclined to suspect that NCSoft would be MORE willing to look into bringing a game back with a new potentially western-driven gaming company - whom they have just recently decided to directly finance - as opposed to selling the IP to another company all together. While they have never brought a game back nor sold an IP...I think they would sooner do the former as opposed to the latter, given the specifics of the circumstance.

Also...I can absolutely see why people wouldn't want to do this because this would mean COH would remain in the hands of NCSoft - which, obviously, isn't the ideal for ANY of us. But...truth time part II? I would rather see NCSoft bring back COH than have them just sit on the IP so as no one can ever play the game again. Or, if you've moved on to another game or you're more interested in checking out TPP or Valiance, that's cool too!

Everyone has a right to feel how they wanna feel. I just wanted to get a discussion started here. I'm trying to gauge how naive I'm being, haha

Thoughts? Comments? Questions? Concerns?

[JaguarX]

They could possibly bring it back if they chose to but if they did it probably would be highly overhauled. Many people already sworn off NCSOFT thus more than likely many of the old community would not be the target audience and thus they would have to make COX to appeal to a new batch of customers. It would be nice imo to have NCSOFT bring back COX or COX2 or something of the sort. If they do bring back COX, they probably will not call it COX per se but something else but using lot of the old IP so that is seems to be a totally new brand new super hero game but not aimed at those that already sworn to not give NCSOFT another dime.

[Ultimate15]

They could possibly bring it back if they chose to but if they did it probably would be highly overhauled. Many people already sworn off NCSOFT thus more than likely many of the old community would not be the target audience and thus they would have to make COX to appeal to a new batch of customers. It would be nice imo to have NCSOFT bring back COX or COX2 or something of the sort. If they do bring back COX, they probably will not call it COX per se but something else but using lot of the old IP so that is seems to be a totally new brand new super hero game but not aimed at those that already sworn to not give NCSOFT another dime.

Hrm. You think so?

I would actually think that if NCSoft were to choose to bring COH back w/ Molten that they wouldn't want to change the game TOO drastically at the risk of losing whatever fanbase they already originally obtained with the franchise. I don't think they would try to market it as a 'new game' because...well, it ISN'T a new game? Regardless of whatever percentage of the audience they've apparently lost due to their obvious inability to be trusted as a reliable gaming development company, I think we may see different tweaks/updates (hypothetically speaking - this is all wishful thinking, really) but I wouldn't go as far to say that the game would be 'highly overhauled'. That wouldn't be smart from a business OR a marketing standpoint.

I hope they'd also take into consideration that the super-hero themed MMORPG community is actually a semi-specific type of customer. Call me ignorant, but I've never looked at the audience for these types of games as all TOO diverse or broad - maybe somewhat, but not /that/ much. You'll see some players who will make that jump between different genre's of MMO's - i.e. people leaving COH after it closed and heading over to Guild Wards or Neverwinter or something. But I think the majority of COH players either went to Champions Online or DC Online (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here). So I don't even know if there's another audience NCSoft COULD market this game to, other than the one they already worked so hard to get in the first place.

Also, I'm not completely convinced that the people who are currently 'swearing off' any and all titles by NCSoft wouldn't come back to City of Heroes should they decide to resurrect it. That's not to say they're not justified in their anger or frustration with the company, of course - they absolutely are. And I don't want to speak on behave of others when I say this, but I think the OVERWHELMING majority of us - regardless of how furious we are with NCSoft - would at least humor the IDEA of picking up the game again should they decide to bring it back. You may vehemently argue that it's not something you would ever do NOW...but if the tides turned and we were able to get back into Paragon again...?

I DARE YOU TO RESIST THE TEMPTATION!!! I DAAAARE YOOOOOU!!!

...Then again, I could see them wanting to do a slight re-vamp just so a.) they aren't starting things back up again with just more of the same - they gotta incite a bit of excitement/interest with it, and change can often times be the remedy for that and b.) they have to do something to pander to those people who HAVE made that genre-jump from hero to fantasy/anime type MMO's.

[JaguarX]

Hrm. You think so?

I would actually think that if NCSoft were to choose to bring COH back w/ Molten that they wouldn't want to change the game TOO drastically at the risk of losing whatever fanbase they already originally obtained with the franchise. I don't think they would try to market it as a 'new game' because...well, it ISN'T a new game? Regardless of whatever percentage of the audience they've apparently lost due to their obvious inability to be trusted as a reliable gaming development company, I think we may see different tweaks/updates (hypothetically speaking - this is all wishful thinking, really) but I wouldn't go as far to say that the game would be 'highly overhauled'. That wouldn't be smart from a business OR a marketing standpoint.

I hope they'd also take into consideration that the super-hero themed MMORPG community is actually a semi-specific type of customer. Call me ignorant, but I've never looked at the audience for these types of games as all TOO diverse or broad - maybe somewhat, but not /that/ much. You'll see some players who will make that jump between different genre's of MMO's - i.e. people leaving COH after it closed and heading over to Guild Wards or Neverwinter or something. But I think the majority of COH players either went to Champions Online or DC Online (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here). So I don't even know if there's another audience NCSoft COULD market this game to, other than the one they already worked so hard to get in the first place.

Also, I'm not completely convinced that the people who are currently 'swearing off' any and all titles by NCSoft wouldn't come back to City of Heroes should they decide to resurrect it. That's not to say they're not justified in their anger or frustration with the company, of course - they absolutely are. And I don't want to speak on behave of others when I say this, but I think the OVERWHELMING majority of us - regardless of how furious we are with NCSoft - would at least humor the IDEA of picking up the game again should they decide to bring it back. You may vehemently argue that it's not something you would ever do NOW...but if the tides turned and we were able to get back into Paragon again...?

I DARE YOU TO RESIST THE TEMPTATION!!! I DAAAARE YOOOOOU!!!

...Then again, I could see them wanting to do a slight re-vamp just so a.) they aren't starting things back up again with just more of the same - they gotta incite a bit of excitement/interest with it, and change can often times be the remedy for that and b.) they have to do something to pander to those people who HAVE made that genre-jump from hero to fantasy/anime type MMO's.

This is true.


But in the context of over haul as I was using it in, it varies. I'm pretty sure at least they would clean up the tangle, or at least it would be business smart, to clean up the tangled code mess, and update the graphics, the AI, and various other stuff which seemed to be said near impossible with the then current state of the code. Or it could range into a game that is nothing like COX but with Statesman stuck in there somehow. Which as you said is probably right, not good for business.

And yeah I think many are probably blowing off steam. If COX came back today right now, with all of their stuff, some that was swearing NCSOFT up and down today and swearing to never give a single penny would hop back on it without hesitation with cash in hand. A few probably would be a bit more leery of hopping on so fast. A very very very few probably would stick to their guns and not partake.

But remember, more than likely if they do bring it back, they probably will reach out more than the 180,000 peak (Maybe) that they was able to obtain back in 2008-2009 time period. They probably will try ot expand the audience ot at least gain 300,000-500,000 players within the first year at least. And given the background of those running or will be running Molten... I wouldnt put it past them to go similar to mechanics that have been proven to work and bring in millions of subscribers with updates mingled and super hero mmo skin mingled with the storyline and features and characters of the "classic" COX with MA as a big selling point. Or attempt to.

Thing about gamers, they are some of the most fickle consumers out there. They want the old btu decry that it's old. They get the new but decry it for not being the old. They have better chance of throwing darts at a dart board and hitting bullseye ten times in a row by bouncing it off two corners of the room while blind folded standing 100 yards away. Every so often one get lucky and sticks. But once ya find what sticks, they imitate it to increase chance of more sticking and repeating success. But like the bullseye there is only so much room.

[LadyVamp]

I would say please see my comments in "NCSoft has a new venture".  Reply #25.

I stand by those thoughts.  I wouldn't be too thrilled to play a "revamped" coh-ish game by Molten Software.

But, I do agree that if NCSoft brings back a coh-ish game, it won't have coh in any part of the title.

[FatherXmas]

Molten is making a fraking MOBA, not an MMO.  It's going to take them at least two years to do this.  I wish people will stop trying to read into it.  MOBA, very different from an MMO.

Of course they could design a MOBA around super heroes and villains I guess.  But it won't me an MMO.

[sorinkon]

i agree to this statement

This is true.


But in the context of over haul as I was using it in, it varies. I'm pretty sure at least they would clean up the tangle, or at least it would be business smart, to clean up the tangled code mess, and update the graphics, the AI, and various other stuff which seemed to be said near impossible with the then current state of the code. Or it could range into a game that is nothing like COX but with Statesman stuck in there somehow. Which as you said is probably right, not good for business.

And yeah I think many are probably blowing off steam. If COX came back today right now, with all of their stuff, some that was swearing NCSOFT up and down today and swearing to never give a single penny would hop back on it without hesitation with cash in hand. A few probably would be a bit more leery of hopping on so fast. A very very very few probably would stick to their guns and not partake.

But remember, more than likely if they do bring it back, they probably will reach out more than the 180,000 peak (Maybe) that they was able to obtain back in 2008-2009 time period. They probably will try ot expand the audience ot at least gain 300,000-500,000 players within the first year at least. And given the background of those running or will be running Molten... I wouldnt put it past them to go similar to mechanics that have been proven to work and bring in millions of subscribers with updates mingled and super hero mmo skin mingled with the storyline and features and characters of the "classic" COX with MA as a big selling point. Or attempt to.

Thing about gamers, they are some of the most fickle consumers out there. They want the old btu decry that it's old. They get the new but decry it for not being the old. They have better chance of throwing darts at a dart board and hitting bullseye ten times in a row by bouncing it off two corners of the room while blind folded standing 100 yards away. Every so often one get lucky and sticks. But once ya find what sticks, they imitate it to increase chance of more sticking and repeating success. But like the bullseye there is only so much room.

the thing is yes 2008-2009 were great years for the game the only thing i would do is take out AE so there is no more farming issues and put base raids back in and the last thing is make it so the free to play version looks more like it did back when they had the COH launcher which i think they should bring that back aswell... as far as graphics.. the paragon market i like those... the paragon rewards system.... screw it i liked veteran badges better

[Ultimate15]

Molten is making a fraking MOBA, not an MMO.  It's going to take them at least two years to do this.  I wish people will stop trying to read into it.  MOBA, very different from an MMO.

Of course they could design a MOBA around super heroes and villains I guess.  But it won't me an MMO.

No one is arguing this.

I just think people are curious as to what the chances look like for an MMO (such as COH) to be resurrected now that the company which had killed it has decided to directly finance a western-based gaming developer. And even if NCSoft only decided to invest in Molten for that single MOBA title, it's still a RELATIONSHIP that the two companies have started with each other. There is communication there. Ergo, if we can somehow communicate with Molten in an organized and somewhat strategic fashion...*shrugs* I dunno. Worth a shot, in my opinion.

Not to mention, gaming studios HAVE had multiple titles, you know Just because they're currently working on a MOBA that doesn't mean they will never have ANY intention of looking into doing an MMO.

And everyone's going to 'read into' it, haha. That's kind of what we're all doing here, right? That's where it all starts - decisions are made, then we interpret them in a certain light, we foster hope, and ideally we'll ACT on that hope in the off chance that something will stick.

It's called 'taking a risk when you have nothing to lose'. And we literally have NOTHING to lose *laughs*. We already lost it. Now we're just doing whatever we can to get it back. 

[FatherXmas]

Sorry but I was just seeing to many "maybe the new studio will be doing a new CoH" speculation in a number of threads and it was just ticking me off.

[r00tb0ySlim]

Sorry but I was just seeing to many "maybe the new studio will be doing a new CoH" speculation in a number of threads and it was just ticking me off.

Whoa!!!  Maybe this will help : 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKhZD2eqjEs

As far as Molten/NCSoft goes....you never know, but I would still support TPP and a potential CoX revision.

[srmalloy]

But remember, more than likely if they do bring it back, they probably will reach out more than the 180,000 peak (Maybe) that they was able to obtain back in 2008-2009 time period. They probably will try ot expand the audience ot at least gain 300,000-500,000 players within the first year at least. And given the background of those running or will be running Molten... I wouldnt put it past them to go similar to mechanics that have been proven to work and bring in millions of subscribers with updates mingled and super hero mmo skin mingled with the storyline and features and characters of the "classic" COX with MA as a big selling point. Or attempt to.

Unfortunately, based on what NCSoft seems to think is the One True Way of MMO design, I would be seriously afraid that they would rework CoH to make it more attractive to the grindfest players, with Paragon City and the Rogue Isles integrated to have open-world PvP across all zones (except for, maybe, Atlas Park and Mercy Island), and the different enhancement categories (TO/DO/SO/IO) would all be rolled together and made crafted-only, with separate crafting skills for each type of enhancement that you had to grind to be able to craft higher-level enhancements, and you would only be able to learn a limited number of these crafting skills -- but enhancements would always be available from the in-game store for actual money, not Inf. And all enhancements would fall off in bonus when you outleveled them; that way, it ensures that there's a steady demand for new enhancements all the way to the endgame.

[JaguarX]

Unfortunately, based on what NCSoft seems to think is the One True Way of MMO design, I would be seriously afraid that they would rework CoH to make it more attractive to the grindfest players, with Paragon City and the Rogue Isles integrated to have open-world PvP across all zones (except for, maybe, Atlas Park and Mercy Island), and the different enhancement categories (TO/DO/SO/IO) would all be rolled together and made crafted-only, with separate crafting skills for each type of enhancement that you had to grind to be able to craft higher-level enhancements, and you would only be able to learn a limited number of these crafting skills -- but enhancements would always be available from the in-game store for actual money, not Inf. And all enhancements would fall off in bonus when you outleveled them; that way, it ensures that there's a steady demand for new enhancements all the way to the endgame.

yeah. Sad part is that it seems there are a whole bunch of grind fest game players out there in such huge numbers that game makers forget there are other types of gamers, although not as numerous,  but still a very sizeable and relatively untapped market.

Grindfest is like Justin Beiber/Britney Spears CDs.-No one claims to like them but in a miracle fashion still sale in the upper level millions.
Like Rick Ross said- "Somebody lied..." XD

[Eoraptor]

that's a surprisingly apt comparison, JaguarX. just like the people peddling to bieber beliebers and oops girls, they forget all about the hard core blues market, or the bluegrass market, or the tens of millions of people listening to hair ball and classic rock.

[JaguarX]

that's a surprisingly apt comparison, JaguarX. just like the people peddling to bieber beliebers and oops girls, they forget all about the hard core blues market, or the bluegrass market, or the tens of millions of people listening to hair ball and classic rock.

yup.

[Twisted Toon]

yup.

You mean there are categories of music other than "Oldies"? 

[JKPhage]

I'd be utterly horrified if this was announced if for nothing other than the fact that it would read to me as "Blizzard takes over COH".

WOW is a grindfest, with focus on gear and very little character customization and personality. It's very funny at times, and has some very nice plot-lines to follow along due to the source materials rich backstory and history, but in the end it really just feels like nothing but farming for gear and gold. I could make that Orc Death Knight, but he's gonna look just like every other Orc Death Knight and not really be anything I'm invested in. This is Blizzards cash cow and a formula that's kept them in business for nearly a decade. Just imagine what they would do if they decided to revive and/or rehaul City. It's not a pretty picture to me. Incarnate Trials were great fun to do when you wanted something epic to do with your heroes quickly, but they weren't the entire endgame. We had incarnate story arcs, signature arcs, lots of trials and giant monsters and just general end game story arcs that were engrossing and fun. WOW doesn't have that. Once a new expansion is released everyone only does the latest and greatest raid and you're essentially on your own to get there. I won't even go into detail on the atrociously over-priced blizzard store.

I'd much rather just wait for a community-run server than see our City turned into some sort of cash-cow for Blizzard and putting more money in NCSofts pockets.

[srmalloy]

WOW is a grindfest, with focus on gear and very little character customization and personality. It's very funny at times, and has some very nice plot-lines to follow along due to the source materials rich backstory and history, but in the end it really just feels like nothing but farming for gear and gold. I could make that Orc Death Knight, but he's gonna look just like every other Orc Death Knight and not really be anything I'm invested in. This is Blizzards cash cow and a formula that's kept them in business for nearly a decade. Just imagine what they would do if they decided to revive and/or rehaul City. It's not a pretty picture to me. Incarnate Trials were great fun to do when you wanted something epic to do with your heroes quickly, but they weren't the entire endgame. We had incarnate story arcs, signature arcs, lots of trials and giant monsters and just general end game story arcs that were engrossing and fun. WOW doesn't have that. Once a new expansion is released everyone only does the latest and greatest raid and you're essentially on your own to get there. I won't even go into detail on the atrociously over-priced blizzard store.

The one thing that Blizzard did that I could have gotten behind Paragon Studios doing with City of Heroes was the deal Blizzard made with FigurePrints that gave FigurePrints direct access to the character models in Blizzard's server database so that you could go to their website and order custom full-color 3D-printed statues of your characters in various poses. With a larger stable of characters per player, and more costumes per character, this could have made for a significant revenue increase for PS... and if you want to dream about 'might have been', it's possible that a marketing deal like that could have opened the eyes of NCSoft management to what CoH could do with a real advertising budget.

[Eoraptor]

yeah, that would have been hellacious.. to have my own little Fug Li or Ferretina sitting on my desk watching over my own little suburb of Paragon City. 

[healix]

The REAL MOBA

[PunkusJR]

I'd much rather just wait for a community-run server than see our City turned into some sort of cash-cow for Blizzard and putting more money in NCSofts pockets.

I agree with this. I wish they would release the server code (Or whatever the software needed to run a server is called). If they were smart they'd sell the software and have part of the user agreement be that you can't make money off your server. ((Admittedly I don't know much about business or servers. So if this is completely impossible then ignore me xD )) Seems to me like it would be a good way to make a quick buck off the game with little work on their part . . . unless there is something I'm missing.

Though if they revived it at all I'd try it just to see how it was. To be honest  if the community and customization was there, and the gameplay was generally the same or similar, I'd play it.

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