Author Topic: New efforts!  (Read 7281193 times)

darkgob

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #15520 on: March 01, 2015, 08:30:50 PM »
Dominators were not blocked.  The reason for masterminds was for server reasons, but controllers I think was to be fair for villain side, but also because newbies would do horrible on a controller.  They were the closest to a "pure support" class but they did many times more things than healing, requiring you to know how to play a defender and a dominator at the same time effectively.  Newbies wouldn't fully understand the concept of "Active defense through crowd control" or buffs/debuffs so they'd generally do horribly on controllers.  Heck, I remember seeing a person who turned out to be a totally ignorant noob that had plants/empathy, none of the crowd control and exclusively healing abilities and medicine to.  And two reses.  When I told the person he didn't need medicine and should take his crowd control, he exploded on me calling me a noob in global hoping to "expose" me, all he did was expose himself as an idiot.

The game ran for what, 7 years with newbies picking Controllers?  I don't buy that argument at all, you can be a bad player regardless of what you're playing (Mr. Plants/Emp would have found another way to be awful on any other archetype, I'm sure).  And weren't all archetypes available on each side following Freedom?  There's no reason to make it "fair" with villains.

Drauger9

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #15521 on: March 01, 2015, 08:57:47 PM »
well you would be arguing up stream.  Almost all MMO's are free-to-play or are going free-to-play.  The reason is simple it makes more money.  The costs to maintain and make new content isn't that great.  So why not welcome customers that want to pay less.  Pure subscription models shows these customers the door.

I think Waffle was talking about the way it was implemented. In that the customers was generally happy with the way it was set up. While CoH was making an increase profit (I'm assuming). Everyone liked the F2P model the Devs came up with.

Where as many F2P games that I've played where actually pay to win games (Runes of Magic, Battle of Immortals, ect...)

Quote
The reason for masterminds was for server reasons, but controllers I think was to be fair for villain side, but also because newbies would do horrible on a controller.

I was one of those newbies on a controller. LOL! My first toon was a grav/emp troller. I did a decent job on him though. Once I got the hang of things and I did eventually get him to 50.

MM3squints

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #15522 on: March 01, 2015, 09:00:46 PM »
Dominators were not blocked.  The reason for masterminds was for server reasons, but controllers I think was to be fair for villain side, but also because newbies would do horrible on a controller.  They were the closest to a "pure support" class but they did many times more things than healing, requiring you to know how to play a defender and a dominator at the same time effectively.  Newbies wouldn't fully understand the concept of "Active defense through crowd control" or buffs/debuffs so they'd generally do horribly on controllers.  Heck, I remember seeing a person who turned out to be a totally ignorant noob that had plants/empathy, none of the crowd control and exclusively healing abilities and medicine to.  And two reses.  When I told the person he didn't need medicine and should take his crowd control, he exploded on me calling me a noob in global hoping to "expose" me, all he did was expose himself as an idiot.

I knew alot of people that usually went ill/emp (and usually only ill because if you want to go full emp support, you would go defender for higher values) that only took superior invisibility, Phantasm, PA, and Blind (this one was not by choice but because the game makes you pick this or Spectral Wounds.) These troller never really needed any CC because their time was focuses on buffing and the occasionally healing. It's one thing I liked about this game if you had a game plan that was sound, you really didn't have to "play as intended" and still be very effective. I seen petless MMs that were effective, but technically that is not how you are supposed to play MMs, it didn't bother me (but in the case of a buff bot troller, they are technically playing their role as a support.) I really don't care how people make their build or how they play the game, I'm not the one paying their sub and if its a troll that is just running in with bonfire and hurricane while spamming tornadoes for obvious reason, there is a kick button. Me personally I am a min/maxer, but that doesn't mean I need to turn everyone I see into one.

ryuplaneswalker

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #15523 on: March 02, 2015, 04:40:29 AM »
I mentioned that in one of my earlier posts when I referred to ice crown citadel. That content is already made with the paid expansion and they don't bring it out on the test server or live until the paid expansion has been live for a few months so the hardcore guilds can't burn through all the raid and dungeon content in a short period of time. It's a strategy they use to retain players from leaving the game shortly after an expansion launch.

Actually that is not true at all, Raids are not developed that far in advance, they might have rough ideas like who the final boss is and what the plot will be but the actual fights are no where near that developed.

For the Current Expansion they are not even sure how many raid tiers there will be as of the beginning of the year.

Felderburg

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #15524 on: March 02, 2015, 04:52:09 AM »
exactly.  Just some salaries which are already being paid.  This isn't like other business where you have to hire materials to produce products or hire more staff to increase production.  This is why even small increases in revenue are worth it since the salary costs to provide a game for 1 million users and 2 million users won't be that different.

This sounds like it makes a lot of sense, but I don't know enough about the industry to know if it's true or not. It seems to me that when games do well, they hire more people. They may not need those people, but it probably helps put out more content for the extra million people, so they can get even more people!
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Twisted Toon

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #15525 on: March 02, 2015, 05:32:53 AM »
feel better sooon!

I am feel better. still a little swollen when makes sleeping and interesting juggling act finding those few comfortable positions.

Also, since a week or two before the surgery, my back was giving me a few problems. Scoliosis will do that from time to time. This time, it decided to go into a direct competition with the surgery aftermath in which could be the most inconvenient. So far, I'd have to say that the back is winning. The only reason I was able to sleep the first couple of nights was because of the pain meds I was given a prescription for. Interstingly enough, they didn't seem to do a thing for the surgery pains. however, the back pain was lessened enough that I could actually fall asleep until the meds wore off about three hours later. I experimented with hot pads and massage pads, and found that an ice pack were the only thing that helped relieve the back pain. Other than the pain meds, or course.

Fortunately, the general aches and bruising from the surgery are going away, leaving more of my attention to be spent on the back. Which, I am able to manage with ice packs and Advil...and the occasional prescribed pain med. I'll be seeing the Doc on Friday for my post op consult, and we'll see where things stand then.

So, how are things going in your neck of the woods?  :D
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LaughingAlex

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #15526 on: March 02, 2015, 06:42:56 AM »
I knew alot of people that usually went ill/emp (and usually only ill because if you want to go full emp support, you would go defender for higher values) that only took superior invisibility, Phantasm, PA, and Blind (this one was not by choice but because the game makes you pick this or Spectral Wounds.) These troller never really needed any CC because their time was focuses on buffing and the occasionally healing. It's one thing I liked about this game if you had a game plan that was sound, you really didn't have to "play as intended" and still be very effective. I seen petless MMs that were effective, but technically that is not how you are supposed to play MMs, it didn't bother me (but in the case of a buff bot troller, they are technically playing their role as a support.) I really don't care how people make their build or how they play the game, I'm not the one paying their sub and if its a troll that is just running in with bonfire and hurricane while spamming tornadoes for obvious reason, there is a kick button. Me personally I am a min/maxer, but that doesn't mean I need to turn everyone I see into one.

Go figure, I think the only two strategies that were bad were those that generally involved only healing or only sitting and hitting taunt, or relying on people doing either of those excessively.  In a way, city of heroes again was more of a true rpg, you just needed a sound idea of what you wanted to do in things.  Heck, I ran into people who stacked leadership powers on an arachnos soldier, using advantage of being able to take leadership powers in both the leadership pool and their own leadership powers within gadgets or teamwork.  It's not something I would do, but I can see why someone would do that.
Currently; Not doing any streaming, found myself with less time available recently.  Still playing starbound periodically, though I am thinking of trying other games.  Don't tell me to play mmohtg's though please :).  Getting back into participating in VO and the successors again to.

P51mus

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #15527 on: March 02, 2015, 07:02:17 AM »
Heck, I ran into people who stacked leadership powers on an arachnos soldier, using advantage of being able to take leadership powers in both the leadership pool and their own leadership powers within gadgets or teamwork.  It's not something I would do, but I can see why someone would do that.

Well, Arachnos soldiers did get defender values out of maneuvers, and controller/corruptor values out of the rest.  It's a bit of extra end to spend on those leadership toggles, but I found it quite manageable.

Not to mention, with how defense stacks, an extra 5% defense means quite a bit when you're already giving everyone 15%.

Darkojin

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #15528 on: March 02, 2015, 10:34:06 AM »
Go figure, I think the only two strategies that were bad were those that generally involved only healing or only sitting and hitting taunt, or relying on people doing either of those excessively.  In a way, city of heroes again was more of a true rpg, you just needed a sound idea of what you wanted to do in things.  Heck, I ran into people who stacked leadership powers on an arachnos soldier, using advantage of being able to take leadership powers in both the leadership pool and their own leadership powers within gadgets or teamwork.  It's not something I would do, but I can see why someone would do that.

Not sure how different Soldier was to Widow (never got anywhere with my Soldier), but I ran dual Leadership buffs on my Widow to great effect. Endurance was never an issue with decent slotting, and the buffs were amazing, especially when in a group.

Codewalker

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #15529 on: March 02, 2015, 05:02:45 PM »
Actually that is not true at all, Raids are not developed that far in advance, they might have rough ideas like who the final boss is and what the plot will be but the actual fights are no where near that developed.

A good example is Trial of the Crusader. Sure, they knew Icecrown was going to be the final raid tier for the expansion and probably had some of the assets done ahead of time, but it was originally going to come directly after Ulduar. They admitted that they created TOC in a rush because Cataclysm was taking way too long to finish and they didn't want a huge gap between expansions. IIRC it came out in a discussion about ilevel inflation and how it was quite a bit higher in Icecrown than originally planned because of the extra tier.

LaughingAlex

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #15530 on: March 02, 2015, 06:33:31 PM »
Not sure how different Soldier was to Widow (never got anywhere with my Soldier), but I ran dual Leadership buffs on my Widow to great effect. Endurance was never an issue with decent slotting, and the buffs were amazing, especially when in a group.

Widows gave less defense with the tactical training: Maneuvers power, instead they made up for it by getting access to mind link later in either path, though night widows could make Mind Link permanent easier and cheaply compared to a fortunata.  They could provide more defense overall, and the overall nature of their powers could make them better at supporting a team.  A fortunata with perma-mind link was also able to cripple enemy mob attack rates, which also helped significantly dampen the risk of any kind of defense cascades from enemies like the cimerorans.  If the mobs cannot launch any further attacks they won't be able to take advantage of any -defense.  Not to mention course, crowd control.
Currently; Not doing any streaming, found myself with less time available recently.  Still playing starbound periodically, though I am thinking of trying other games.  Don't tell me to play mmohtg's though please :).  Getting back into participating in VO and the successors again to.

LaughingAlex

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #15531 on: March 02, 2015, 07:42:36 PM »
Course, Bane and Crab Spiders tended to be more like a "muscle" class, they did have their strong points, such as more focus on AoE or ST damage than widows or fortunatas.  Fortunatas used psionic damage, so solo with them would slow to a grind against some robotic enemies and their 50% damage resistance to psionic(or god forbid, more then that).
Currently; Not doing any streaming, found myself with less time available recently.  Still playing starbound periodically, though I am thinking of trying other games.  Don't tell me to play mmohtg's though please :).  Getting back into participating in VO and the successors again to.

Risha

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #15532 on: March 02, 2015, 11:03:17 PM »
All right, I posted this in another (not watched much) thread, so I decided to put it here, too.  I know we have Icon now and hopefully in the future, and the spin-offs will have a character creator, but I just wanted to put this out there: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/312140849/pictodon-character-portrait-designer  And, yes, I supported it.
Writer of Fantasy and Fantasy Romance

PsiBug

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #15533 on: March 02, 2015, 11:29:31 PM »
I am feel better. still a little swollen when makes sleeping and interesting juggling act finding those few comfortable positions.

Also, since a week or two before the surgery, my back was giving me a few problems. Scoliosis will do that from time to time. This time, it decided to go into a direct competition with the surgery aftermath in which could be the most inconvenient. So far, I'd have to say that the back is winning. The only reason I was able to sleep the first couple of nights was because of the pain meds I was given a prescription for. Interstingly enough, they didn't seem to do a thing for the surgery pains. however, the back pain was lessened enough that I could actually fall asleep until the meds wore off about three hours later. I experimented with hot pads and massage pads, and found that an ice pack were the only thing that helped relieve the back pain. Other than the pain meds, or course.

Fortunately, the general aches and bruising from the surgery are going away, leaving more of my attention to be spent on the back. Which, I am able to manage with ice packs and Advil...and the occasional prescribed pain med. I'll be seeing the Doc on Friday for my post op consult, and we'll see where things stand then.

So, how are things going in your neck of the woods?  :D

A bear escaped from a local zoo and I wrestled it into submission with a non-lethal sleeper hold. Nothing to report here! Glad you are getting some relief. Hope the post op consult goes well so you'll be ready to sit your but down and play some CoH when it comes back!!!

duane

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #15534 on: March 02, 2015, 11:39:51 PM »
A bear escaped from a local zoo and I wrestled it into submission with a non-lethal sleeper hold. Nothing to report here! Glad you are getting some relief. Hope the post op consult goes well so you'll be ready to sit your but down and play some CoH when it comes back!!!

The two threads seem extra dead...

Welcome to March!

Arcana

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #15535 on: March 03, 2015, 01:49:12 AM »
The game ran for what, 7 years with newbies picking Controllers?  I don't buy that argument at all, you can be a bad player regardless of what you're playing (Mr. Plants/Emp would have found another way to be awful on any other archetype, I'm sure).  And weren't all archetypes available on each side following Freedom?  There's no reason to make it "fair" with villains.

When game design decisions are made, they are generally consensus decisions made after reviewing all presented lines of thought and making the decision with the best support, not the one that is logically provably correct.  Its logical for masterminds to be one of the locked archetypes because there were several points in favor (server resource utilization, complexity of play).  Those points were weaker for Controllers, but sufficiently strong to make Controllers the odds on favorite of the original hero archetypes: on top of having similar points to Masterminds there was a symmetry reason for doing so analogizing Controllers to Masterminds.

Now, when you say there's no reason, of course there's a reason: there are lots of reasons.  There are also lots of reasons to not do it.  The question is, when you're sitting in a conference room with the rest of the dev team, and that train of thought is brought up, can you come up with a strong enough reason to not lock Controllers that will persuade your colleagues.  What I can say is that "you can be a bad player regardless of what you're playing" is a completely ineffective response to "datamining suggests that Controllers tend to be harder than average for players to play."  Its a true statement, but also completely irrelevant.

Players consistently erred in viewing dev decisions as if they were made by a singular hive mind.  They tended to question decisions in terms of someone making a singular train of thought.  The reason why Masterminds and Controllers were locked was because, in effect, those archetypes drew the most votes for being the ones locked, with different devs presenting different reasons for different archetypes, and those were the consensus choices.  Sometimes, committees make decisions for reasons individual people don't, in particular they often make them for collections of non-overlapping reasons.

Abraxus

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #15536 on: March 03, 2015, 01:50:33 AM »
The two threads seem extra dead...

Welcome to March!

*sigh*  Another month goes by.....

Really, unless I see the new thread with any more than 1 reply, I don't expect to see much in the two old ones, other than jabber about various other aspects of the game.  I just hope when he does post something there, it is not "No news yet".  I don't think my heart could take that kind of a roller coaster ride!
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brothermutant

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #15537 on: March 03, 2015, 02:47:00 AM »
Go figure, I think the only two strategies that were bad were those that generally involved only healing or only sitting and hitting taunt, or relying on people doing either of those excessively.  In a way, city of heroes again was more of a true rpg, you just needed a sound idea of what you wanted to do in things.  Heck, I ran into people who stacked leadership powers on an arachnos soldier, using advantage of being able to take leadership powers in both the leadership pool and their own leadership powers within gadgets or teamwork.  It's not something I would do, but I can see why someone would do that.
I used to do that, we ran like 3 soldiers (Bane, crabbie and my hunter soldier) along with a widow or 3 and could just walk all over stuff. So much buffage that it took a considerable cascade failure of our def to really get us in trouble, and even then we had controls, pets and a LOT of dmg to mitigate any reall problems..ahhh, the good ol' days.

Felderburg

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #15538 on: March 03, 2015, 04:34:59 AM »
All right, I posted this in another (not watched much) thread, so I decided to put it here, too.  I know we have Icon now and hopefully in the future, and the spin-offs will have a character creator, but I just wanted to put this out there: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/312140849/pictodon-character-portrait-designer  And, yes, I supported it.

Huh! I may back this. $100k seems a bit steep, though. I think they'd have a better time selling it with a pitch like: "Want to create 3d characters, but don't have the time to learn to use fancy sophisticated modelling programs? Get Pictodon! We do all the hard work, you just make the character!"
I used CIT before they even joined the Titan network! But then I left for a long ol' time, and came back. Now I edit the wiki.

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Twisted Toon

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #15539 on: March 03, 2015, 05:04:32 AM »
A bear escaped from a local zoo and I wrestled it into submission with a non-lethal sleeper hold. Nothing to report here! Glad you are getting some relief. Hope the post op consult goes well so you'll be ready to sit your but down and play some CoH when it comes back!!!

I applaud your non-lethal neutralization of the locally escaped bear.

Even if the post op consult doesn't go well, I still think I'll be able to sit and play some CoH when it comes back. If I have to, I'll move the computer over by my bed and play. makes me glad I went with a wireless keyboard and mouse.  :)
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