Author Topic: New efforts!  (Read 7212080 times)

Aggelakis

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #16100 on: March 27, 2015, 11:55:14 PM »
Arcana was in the closed beta testing, MM3....that thread she linked was copy-pasted from the CB forums.... -_-
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MM3squints

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #16101 on: March 28, 2015, 12:03:39 AM »
Arcana was in the closed beta testing, MM3....that thread she linked was copy-pasted from the CB forums.... -_-

I'm not saying she wasn't (the thread dose say its was from closed beta) What I'm saying is the other wealth of information was there showing the mechanics of DR, numbers wasn't just solely made by Arcana, there was others that used hard numbers combined it with others factors in PvP to prove the i13 was a bad idea. Those post were just never posted outside of closed beta forums because they stopped caring after it was a definite i13 will proceed or they ended up in flame wars and threads got killed or large portions of just got deleted.

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #16102 on: March 28, 2015, 01:00:46 AM »
Just so ya know I already did the math on this one.

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #16103 on: March 28, 2015, 01:28:01 AM »
...as evil as human centipede

I have not seen the movie, but I did read an interview with the creator who said it was more about really grossing people out - making a spectacle of it so much that people would be uncomfortable to the extreme (something along those lines - nowhere near those exact words). So when I saw Arcana say she compared CoV to Human Centipede, given the fact that most of the storylines in CoV were largely criticized due to making the character "just a thug" (other than Westin Phipps) I got from the phrase that the more evil storylines were spectacles, rather than inhumanely evil, or something like that.
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Vee

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #16104 on: March 28, 2015, 02:01:06 AM »
Was Westin Phipps the one where you got to punch the reforming freakshow's books to death? That was one of my favorites.

Arcana

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #16105 on: March 28, 2015, 02:22:19 AM »
I'm not saying she wasn't (the thread dose say its was from closed beta) What I'm saying is the other wealth of information was there showing the mechanics of DR, numbers wasn't just solely made by Arcana, there was others that used hard numbers combined it with others factors in PvP to prove the i13 was a bad idea. Those post were just never posted outside of closed beta forums because they stopped caring after it was a definite i13 will proceed or they ended up in flame wars and threads got killed or large portions of just got deleted.

As I mentioned originally, I did not intend to say I was the only person posting any information on DR.  Within the context of the question "is it possible to prove I had direct contact with the devs" the fact I was able to post the precise DR formula when no one before or after was able to derive it from testing would suggest that I got that information directly from the devs.

Arcana

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #16106 on: March 28, 2015, 02:51:34 AM »
I have not seen the movie, but I did read an interview with the creator who said it was more about really grossing people out - making a spectacle of it so much that people would be uncomfortable to the extreme (something along those lines - nowhere near those exact words). So when I saw Arcana say she compared CoV to Human Centipede, given the fact that most of the storylines in CoV were largely criticized due to making the character "just a thug" (other than Westin Phipps) I got from the phrase that the more evil storylines were spectacles, rather than inhumanely evil, or something like that.

Kinda the opposite, actually.  The point I was trying to make at the time was that while some players might revel in expressing their dark sides, most CoH players I believed were less likely to enjoy that experience except as a novelty.  If the devs intended to make the red side as popular as the blue side, they needed, in my opinion, to make the red side not only just as interesting as the blue side but also much more rewarding on a visceral level.  Phipps is *excruciatingly* evil, to the point of being uncomfortably so.  Requiem for a Dream might be a great movie, but its not exactly entertaining.  I thought there needed to be more opportunities to be, say, Magneto in the first X-Men movie.  He's the bad guy, but he's not cartoonishly evil and actually quite relateable.  If you could be Erik Lensherr and win that would be an interesting red side.  Or, even better today, if you could be the Erik Lensherr we see in First Class, hunting down the former Nazis that he held responsible for his mother's death, that would be extremely rewarding.

To me, there wasn't anything wrong with the puppy-kicking evil of Phipps or the banal evil of Pither.  The problem was that good can be reactive, but evil needs agency.  Which is to say, Superman can wait for Brainiac to show up and try to destroy Metropolis.  But Magneto can't wait around for an opportunity to be evil.  He has to proactively do what the good guys don't want him to do to be interesting.  The devs had tools to make us "feel good" and "feel evil" but the "feel evil" toolbox too often tried to make us feel bad about what we were doing.  That's counter to the whole point of wanting to play a villain in my opinion.

There's a place for letting us be psychotic monsters.  But that's just as interesting in the long run as playing UPS missions as heroes.

I wish there was less symmetry between the blue side stories and the red side stories, and more duality.  Which is to say, I wish the red side stories were about making bad things happen that the blue side had to fix and vice versa, and less about the red side and the blue side being ships that passed in the night.

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #16107 on: March 28, 2015, 03:48:35 AM »

Brigadine

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #16108 on: March 28, 2015, 04:32:56 AM »
It's 50/50 but only 10% of the time.
Works 70% of the time everytime.
5 out of 4 people have trouble with statistics...

Arcana

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #16109 on: March 28, 2015, 06:03:31 AM »
Literally only one" is a stretch.

"Literally only one" is literally true, provided you read the entire sentence.  I am, as far as I'm aware, the only person that posted how DR worked.  I am, of course, not the only person that was aware it existed at all, or posted measurements about what it did.  Although I elected to add, as I often did back then, the not-supposed-to-be-necessary-but-always-seemed-to-be-for-me disclaimer that stating what I did factually should not be interpreted to mean I'm implying I did anything else except what I stated, since you decided to characterize that as being "walking back" I'm compelled to revoke that statement completely and stand behind the original statement as posted.  I'm prepared to be literally proven wrong, if you can provide any literal evidence of someone else literally posting about how DR literally worked, and not just what it literally did.

Aggelakis

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #16110 on: March 28, 2015, 06:04:48 AM »
And now 'literally' no longer looks like a word.
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ivanhedgehog

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #16111 on: March 28, 2015, 06:16:25 AM »
Kinda the opposite, actually.  The point I was trying to make at the time was that while some players might revel in expressing their dark sides, most CoH players I believed were less likely to enjoy that experience except as a novelty.  If the devs intended to make the red side as popular as the blue side, they needed, in my opinion, to make the red side not only just as interesting as the blue side but also much more rewarding on a visceral level.  Phipps is *excruciatingly* evil, to the point of being uncomfortably so.  Requiem for a Dream might be a great movie, but its not exactly entertaining.  I thought there needed to be more opportunities to be, say, Magneto in the first X-Men movie.  He's the bad guy, but he's not cartoonishly evil and actually quite relateable.  If you could be Erik Lensherr and win that would be an interesting red side.  Or, even better today, if you could be the Erik Lensherr we see in First Class, hunting down the former Nazis that he held responsible for his mother's death, that would be extremely rewarding.

To me, there wasn't anything wrong with the puppy-kicking evil of Phipps or the banal evil of Pither.  The problem was that good can be reactive, but evil needs agency.  Which is to say, Superman can wait for Brainiac to show up and try to destroy Metropolis.  But Magneto can't wait around for an opportunity to be evil.  He has to proactively do what the good guys don't want him to do to be interesting.  The devs had tools to make us "feel good" and "feel evil" but the "feel evil" toolbox too often tried to make us feel bad about what we were doing.  That's counter to the whole point of wanting to play a villain in my opinion.

There's a place for letting us be psychotic monsters.  But that's just as interesting in the long run as playing UPS missions as heroes.

I wish there was less symmetry between the blue side stories and the red side stories, and more duality.  Which is to say, I wish the red side stories were about making bad things happen that the blue side had to fix and vice versa, and less about the red side and the blue side being ships that passed in the night.

I have always had a problem with badguys doing gratuitous evil. whats in it for them? whats the point? I cant remember what book it was in, but there was an assassin that wouldnt kill people unless he got paid for it or it was life or death. he made a point of not causing collateral damage. or the stainless steel rat..he was a con artist, thief burglar you name it but he tried to never take a life. bad guys dont have to run around slaughtering nuns. there is no profit in it and it is bad publicity.

ivanhedgehog

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #16112 on: March 28, 2015, 06:18:34 AM »
And now 'literally' no longer looks like a word.

that word you used..I do not think it means what you think it means...




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MM3squints

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #16113 on: March 28, 2015, 06:51:35 AM »
« Last Edit: March 28, 2015, 06:57:35 AM by MM3squints »

Aggelakis

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #16114 on: March 28, 2015, 07:33:35 AM »
Arcana never said she's the only one that posted about how DR works. Arcana is saying she's the only one that posted the formula for it (in closed beta or otherwise). Which as far as I can recall, she's telling the truth and either you're misreading what she's saying or being deliberately obtuse.
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Twisted Toon

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #16115 on: March 28, 2015, 07:42:42 AM »
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MM3squints

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #16116 on: March 28, 2015, 08:42:24 AM »

Solitaire

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #16117 on: March 28, 2015, 09:15:51 AM »
Just so ya know I already did the math on this one.

City of Heroes = FUN

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+1  :D That's all the maths I need!

Aggelakis

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #16118 on: March 28, 2015, 09:48:12 AM »
Not misread or being obtuse. Her original statement before saying anything about the formula was:
Posting "information about how PvP diminishing returns worked", which is what Arcanaville did, does not equal posting about cataloging and analyzing the results of diminishing returns, which is what everyone else was doing.

Post A: "X works this way" <-- Arcana's posts
Post B-Z: "the results of X look like YZ so I posit X" <-- everyone else's posts

Also: she didn't "crack" how DR worked - the devs gave her the information/she worked with the devs on the information. She's not taking credit for DR. She's taking credit for being the only person who posted about how it worked, versus what the end results made it look like how it worked (two very different things).
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MM3squints

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #16119 on: March 28, 2015, 05:30:21 PM »
Posting "information about how PvP diminishing returns worked", which is what Arcanaville did, does not equal posting about cataloging and analyzing the results of diminishing returns, which is what everyone else was doing.

Post A: "X works this way" <-- Arcana's posts
Post B-Z: "the results of X look like YZ so I posit X" <-- everyone else's posts

Also: she didn't "crack" how DR worked - the devs gave her the information/she worked with the devs on the information. She's not taking credit for DR. She's taking credit for being the only person who posted about how it worked, versus what the end results made it look like how it worked (two very different things).

That's where the confusion is I think. Posting "information about how PvP diminishing returns worked" is posting about cataloging and analyzing the results of diminishing returns. By the very definition if you analyze DR and post the findings about DR, you are posting information how PvP DR works. (Kind of funny that I can use use this line. I guess it's what your definition of "is" is)  I'll stop going on about this subject till Aracna to clarify her original statement. Because to me it dose sound like she is taking credit for DR analysis (not just the formula) due to the wording of her original statement.