Author Topic: New efforts!  (Read 7210959 times)

Soul Resonance

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #18900 on: August 04, 2015, 02:31:59 PM »
They haven't, and indeed the talks do actively continue.

Thanks for the reassurance...was just feeling a bit worried as of late.  ;D
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Auroxis

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #18901 on: August 04, 2015, 03:14:57 PM »
AE's efficiency was constantly nerfed over time, whether it be by lowering the rewards, removing abusive maps, and increasing the rewards for non-AE content(by adding reward tokens).

Keep in mind that farming existed before AE with portal/demon farming, so there was never a shortage of people at high levels not knowing how to utilize their characters. Personally, I didn't mind playing with low-skill players as long as they tried to contribute. It added to that "heroic" feel and sometimes even provided me with exciting challenges much like when playing with sidekicks.

Cailyn Alaynn

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #18902 on: August 04, 2015, 04:35:48 PM »
I know that one of the arguments I've heard for how. as it was put, "AE killed the game" actually made a little sense.
(I should mention that I have no personal argument against veteran players farming.)

The concern was that newer players would end up on farm teams while playing in Atlas Park, and then...basically end up thinking that AE farming pretty much was the majority of what the game had to offer. This would lead to them eventually leaving CoH, thinking there was very little of interest to do other than stand around in AE.
I did actually see this happen, and managed to convince at least a couple people to come back and try playing the rest of the game.
Make no mistakes, that *IS* bad for any game. Players not staying with an MMO is a huge red flag. Personally, I think at the least AE should have been removed from starting zones, or perhaps locked until a player reaches a certain level for the first time. (Similar to how Peacebringers and Warshades were locked until you got one character to 50.)

Another concern that I've heard is of course the classic story of the "AE Baby". Where you have a level 50 Fire/Kin standing in Atlas Park asking "What are enhancements?" or "Where's Kings Row?". I know a lot of players were very annoyed because they would invite a level 50, expecting that this person had a certain level of experience with the game...only to find that this player only had a good grasp of how to kill Jello's.
While the frustration is understandable, I would hope most of us helped these players to expand their horizons.

Auroxis pointed out that farming existed long before AE, and indeed it did. But AE made it so easy to suck inexperienced players in that it ended up hurting them in the long run. Not because 'farming r bad', but because...well...you'd log into Atlas Park (my home away from home, as plenty of people who played on Victory can attest.) and hear nothing but people offering AE farm runs, or people asking for AE farm runs.

Aside from that issue, no I don't think AE 'killed' the game. I think it was a monumental achievement that hadn't really been explored in an MMO before, and a brave decision to give the players a chance at the reins.
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Vee

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #18903 on: August 04, 2015, 04:42:53 PM »
Personally, I think at the least AE should have been removed from starting zones, or perhaps locked until a player reaches a certain level for the first time. (Similar to how Peacebringers and Warshades were locked until you got one character to 50.)


With you completely on this, especially if it means we can have a giant AE baby statue in the AE building's place in APR.

umber

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #18904 on: August 04, 2015, 05:03:46 PM »
I didnt like the way Bio Armor looked.. so sadly.. I probably wouldnt have played it...

Initially wasn't a big fan of the look meself but I did find a look/concept I was willing to work with, tinting the 'chitin' to look like drying lava.

Never tested Bio Armor and don't remember why now.  Did they change the testing room near the end, not giving out level bumps?  Didn't mind testing new sets but didn't have the time to devote to fully leveling up on the test server as well as putting gaming time into the live environment with my teammates.  Was ready to roll a titan/bio broot as soon as it landed  :'(

Auroxis

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #18905 on: August 04, 2015, 05:16:59 PM »
Newbies getting attracted to the easy availability of content isn't a bad thing. I just wish non-AE content was given tools to compete with AE's accessibility to newbies.

What about being able to teleport to a team leader's zone? So instead of having a black bar in place of the team's leader's health bar when leader was out of zone, there was a shiny button letting you teleport to the leader's zone? Could be abused in task forces a bit and would need some lore to rationalize it, but other than that it seems fine?

Ohioknight

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #18906 on: August 04, 2015, 06:15:59 PM »
... I think at the least AE should have been removed from starting zones, or perhaps locked until a player reaches a certain level for the first time. (Similar to how Peacebringers and Warshades were locked until you got one character to 50.)

I agree with this and would additionally support limitations that made it more difficult for players to advance generally without "playing the game" (maybe sidekicking experience limitations or some such) until they'd been up to 50 one or more times.

But not because it would in any way enhance the game experience or make the players "better".

Specifically I would support this for "marketing" (if you will) by which I mean ongoing financial return for the game providers and player population engagement.  People seem to remain more committed to games that make them work (to some degree) to achieve goals (much as I hate that experience personally -- since a feeling of grinding exploitation and frustration at some point is almost unavoidable).  I perceive that there was a distinct dropoff of commitment and interest in the general player population caused by the power and enablement that was created by AE. 

Kinda like the observation from Agent Smith in the Matrix -- we gave you what you wanted and you people stopped playing.
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pinballdave

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #18907 on: August 04, 2015, 06:47:01 PM »
There were AE babies. There were farmers for sure of all stripes. I think the partial solution to getting sucked into AE farms was the introduction to Death From Below, which seemed to be a huge hit, and I personally liked it a lot.

edit: I meant to add: I think that Architect Entertainment could be unlocked at level 32 when a character achieved its primary tier 9

Sinistar

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #18908 on: August 04, 2015, 07:37:12 PM »
Kinda like the observation from Agent Smith in the Matrix -- we gave you what you wanted and you people stopped playing.

heh, now this brings back a nice memory of an AE mission I made.   One of the outdoor atlas maps, and many patrols and ambushes by enemies that were matrix agents.  Kind of an attempted to recreate the burly brawl scene in Matrix Reloaded with all the Smiths vs Neo.

Fun times. :)
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Brigadine

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #18909 on: August 04, 2015, 08:49:50 PM »
heh, now this brings back a nice memory of an AE mission I made.   One of the outdoor atlas maps, and many patrols and ambushes by enemies that were matrix agents.  Kind of an attempted to recreate the burly brawl scene in Matrix Reloaded with all the Smiths vs Neo.

Fun times. :)
But a time paradox got paragon all twisted up in it ;)

hurple

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #18910 on: August 04, 2015, 08:52:51 PM »
And there were plenty of players like me, too.  I completely ignored AE and everything to do with it.


blacksly

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #18911 on: August 04, 2015, 09:16:40 PM »
Given how many things Bio Armor could take on simultaneously, when would you ever see those effects?

when doing "/em flex" over the bodies of five Fake Nemesis

MegaWatt

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #18912 on: August 04, 2015, 11:15:54 PM »
locking to a -first- 32 would be fine but after you do 1-50 a time or two or build a ton of alts you start to get tired of the early zones.

Edit: and on a waaaaaaaaaaaaay earlier comment about PVP ruining the game: Why couldn't they have made the changes related to PVP only happen in the PvP zones ?
If we set it on fire it'll burn....but that'd leave evidence...I KNOW ! COMPLETE ATOMIZATION! WOOOO!

Cailyn Alaynn

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #18913 on: August 04, 2015, 11:39:59 PM »
locking to a -first- 32 would be fine but after you do 1-50 a time or two or build a ton of alts you start to get tired of the early zones.

Edit: and on a waaaaaaaaaaaaay earlier comment about PVP ruining the game: Why couldn't they have made the changes related to PVP only happen in the PvP zones ?

I'm very familiar with being bored of early content. I couldn't even begin to try to count the number of times I've been through Atlas Park, The Hollows, Perez Park, etc...
The point would be to make it locked until a player is at least a little experienced with the game, not to prevent veteran players from not having to do starter content.
I Power leveled plenty of characters over the years, for a variety of reasons.

In general I'd say balancing a PvE environment against PvP to be a bad idea. However, I'm not sure the CoH devs put too much concern with PvP when they doing power balancing. I don't think any of the devs put much thought at all into PvP in the last couple years.
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HEATSTROKE

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #18914 on: August 05, 2015, 02:46:14 AM »
Given how many things Bio Armor could take on simultaneously, when would you ever see those effects?

I didnt like that one power that looked like you covered yourself in poop and then break free of the poop....

blacksly

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #18915 on: August 05, 2015, 12:34:43 PM »
In general I'd say balancing a PvE environment against PvP to be a bad idea. However, I'm not sure the CoH devs put too much concern with PvP when they doing power balancing. I don't think any of the devs put much thought at all into PvP in the last couple years.

I always had the feeling that the players looked to create blame where none existed... there was no reason why the Devs should NOT try to balance Blaster DPS even for PvE. But it's easier on a player's mind to "Blame the PvPers" when their Ice Blast set had its Ice Blast slowed down, than to say "well, it was doing more DPS than most other sets, it's not unreasonable to balance them so they have the same activation time". So the blame went out to PvPing, because it's always easier to think that a nerf was inappropriate and only done in order to benefit some other group of players, than to admit that a power that you liked really was too good and that a nerfing might have been appropriate.

Matt Bold

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #18916 on: August 05, 2015, 02:16:29 PM »
I'm very familiar with being bored of early content. I couldn't even begin to try to count the number of times I've been through Atlas Park, The Hollows, Perez Park, etc...
The point would be to make it locked until a player is at least a little experienced with the game, not to prevent veteran players from not having to do starter content.
I Power leveled plenty of characters over the years, for a variety of reasons.

In general I'd say balancing a PvE environment against PvP to be a bad idea. However, I'm not sure the CoH devs put too much concern with PvP when they doing power balancing. I don't think any of the devs put much thought at all into PvP in the last couple years.

The entire reason I powerleveld was to get OUT of the 1-20 grind.  I would PL to 20, maybe 31.9, then start playing content.  Taking AE out of starting zones I would have been all for, since veteran players had easy means of travel.

hurple

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #18917 on: August 05, 2015, 02:36:21 PM »
I would PL until I could start playing through Faultline.  I loved Loved LOVED Fautline.  Good way to test my builds at that level, too... If I couldn't solo the entire arc, I would tweak my build until I could.

I had similar "test" arcs that I would solo through at 30 40 and 50 for the same purpose.


Thunder Glove

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #18918 on: August 05, 2015, 04:34:46 PM »
I found I didn't really enjoy playing Dominators until level 32, when they got their pet, so I always tried to speed up that process as much as possible.  (Controllers, too, but my only Controller was only in his 20s when the game shut down - I was looking forward to the big angry puppy, though)

Iivaitte

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #18919 on: August 05, 2015, 05:50:13 PM »
And there were plenty of players like me, too.  I completely ignored AE and everything to do with it.

Some Players have self control, others do not.
With no self discipline often many games can get boring quickly, its not something to blame on a good game mechanic.
People will often approach a game by looking at what the end goal is, so they take every shortcut to get to the end so they can accomplish it faster. Character development, who cares. Power sets? Only what has been deemed the most powerful by popular opinion. There are people who are more in-between, only looking to escape the grind. However with no self discipline, no post game strategy, and no exposure, its honestly no surprise some people found the game lacking.

Even with taking my time for a whole 3 years, barely reaching 40, I had barely left the 3rd zone. There was so much content it was ridiculous. All the awesome game play was from level 15-50, and the decision to unlock travel powers earlier actually saved the game for a lot of people, allowing them to explore. The wealth of powers towards I23-I24 was hyping people about this game more than ever, providing even more ways to play the game.

Anyway, this is just a ranty bit.