Author Topic: New efforts!  (Read 7272335 times)

Brigadine

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #19280 on: September 03, 2015, 10:11:45 PM »
Wow, its been a year since Nate's "And the mask comes off." thread.  And still.

Nothing.
Yeah, super powerfully depressing :( This whole thing is insane. It really should be simple but NC$oft has to make it hard I guess.

Nyx Nought Nothing

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #19281 on: September 03, 2015, 11:51:09 PM »
Yeah, super powerfully depressing :( This whole thing is insane. It really should be simple but NC$oft has to make it hard I guess.
Actually...
*head shake*

Eh, just read the replies to his nearly identical whinge in "The Mask Comes Off"...
This is not particularly slow for a real world business deal. i'm not exactly ecstatic over how long it's taking, but i'm also not surprised.
So far so good. Onward and upward!

LaughingAlex

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #19282 on: September 03, 2015, 11:59:25 PM »
I'll continue hoping and being optimistic here.  We'd not been told the talks failed, so as far as I am concerned, the talks are still ongoing.  And they have to be getting closer and closer by now.
Currently; Not doing any streaming, found myself with less time available recently.  Still playing starbound periodically, though I am thinking of trying other games.  Don't tell me to play mmohtg's though please :).  Getting back into participating in VO and the successors again to.

Zombie Hustler

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #19283 on: September 04, 2015, 12:28:19 AM »
Except... those are Syndicate guys, it looks like. I bet the Powers Division doesn't send people to the hospital...

Good point. More reason for him to be praying the day goes without a hitch, then!  ;D

darkgob

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #19284 on: September 04, 2015, 12:32:31 AM »


Was this screenshot taken on lower settings, or were the graphics actually worse than I remember them being?

Blackout

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #19285 on: September 04, 2015, 12:35:58 AM »
Actually...
*head shake*

Eh, just read the replies to his nearly identical whinge in "The Mask Comes Off"...
This is not particularly slow for a real world business deal. i'm not exactly ecstatic over how long it's taking, but i'm also not surprised.

Very true, although you can hardly blame them. At this point we're approaching the three year mark so its not surprising that people's faith is waning a little.
Plus updates from projects like the successors and Paragon Chat give people hope, but ultimately make people long for the proper game all the more. I'm not saying that its a bad thing of course, the successor projects and Icon and Paragon Chat are amazing and their existence stand as a testament to the strength of the city of heroes community, but at the same time its really not surprising to see people getting a little restless at how long they've had to wait without news.

Zerohour

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #19286 on: September 04, 2015, 12:36:16 AM »
Actually...
*head shake*

Eh, just read the replies to his nearly identical whinge in "The Mask Comes Off"...
This is not particularly slow for a real world business deal. i'm not exactly ecstatic over how long it's taking, but i'm also not surprised.

So I posted in both threads.  Big deal.  I was making an observation that after the big reveal this time last year, I would have expected SOMETHING by now.  I don't understand how so many of you can be eternally optimistic about the outcome of this thing.  Apparently you all have business degrees though.

Angel Phoenix77

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #19287 on: September 04, 2015, 12:49:33 AM »
So I posted in both threads.  Big deal.  I was making an observation that after the big reveal this time last year, I would have expected SOMETHING by now.  I don't understand how so many of you can be eternally optimistic about the outcome of this thing.  Apparently you all have business degrees though.
Your observations are flawed, due to you not really reading the threads. And be optimistic is a bad thing why? Because it is going against what you think? Not at all, I have a degree in computer networking, it is not that hard to read Iron Wolfs posts where he talks about how Koreans do business; as well as keep up with little nuggets that some people post.
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Surelle

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #19288 on: September 04, 2015, 02:51:16 AM »
So I posted in both threads.  Big deal.  I was making an observation that after the big reveal this time last year, I would have expected SOMETHING by now.  I don't understand how so many of you can be eternally optimistic about the outcome of this thing.  Apparently you all have business degrees though.

Please don't forget that we are no worse off than we ever were, and we wouldn't even know about Nate & Crew trying to license the CoX IP to inject its lore into successor projects (which is what the original deal was begun for), nor about the potential addition of an i23 image rez, if someone(s) hadn't blabbed about it when they shouldn't have.

So if you want to be mad, be mad at the original blabbermouths, lol.  Don't take it out on the general readership of Titan Network.   :P 

Fantasy?  Reality?  Somewhere in between?  Who knows?   If it comes to fruition, we'll hear about it.  If NCSoft continues to string along Nate & Crew with no intent of ever closing any sort of deal, eventually the investors and Nate will give up.  How many years that might take I don't know, but never forget:  We're no worse off than we are right now even if nothing ever happens.

And don't forget to support and try Paragon Chat.  Someday it might....well....You never know.   :)

Ironwolf

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #19289 on: September 04, 2015, 06:49:07 PM »
Paragon Chat if they find the deal falls apart might just become soothing much more :)

Relitner

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #19290 on: September 04, 2015, 07:29:14 PM »
Actually...
*head shake*

Eh, just read the replies to his nearly identical whinge in "The Mask Comes Off"...
This is not particularly slow for a real world business deal. i'm not exactly ecstatic over how long it's taking, but i'm also not surprised.

Not intending to be argumentative or pessimistic, but this deal is actually taking an unusually long time. Entire companies are sold and purchased faster than this.
However, without knowing details, all we can do is guess. Still, I just cant help but wonder who on Nate's team has the legal wherewithal to stand nose to nose with NCSoft's legal cadre. My guess is this deal is most likely more about legal acrobatics than it is money.
in nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti amen

Arcana

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #19291 on: September 04, 2015, 07:31:16 PM »
Was this screenshot taken on lower settings, or were the graphics actually worse than I remember them being?

I used to flip my settings back and forth from high to low and back again often because I often ran "multibox" (really multi-session) setups for extended periods of time for a variety of reasons, and running with lower graphics settings allowed me to run more simultaneous sessions.  Sometimes I forgot to change it back when I was playing conventionally.

Arcana

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #19292 on: September 04, 2015, 08:01:10 PM »
Not intending to be argumentative or pessimistic, but this deal is actually taking an unusually long time. Entire companies are sold and purchased faster than this.

Entire companies have been sold in less time, and in a lot more time.  But I don't think that's a fair comparison for another reason: it can be easier to buy and sell whole companies.

I keep seeing people think about this deal as a comparable to buying something from ebay.  Just bid high enough and you win.  But that's not how these things often work.  Consider: suppose a company decided they wanted to buy the IP for Frozen from Disney.  Ok, how much would they need to spend?  Answer: nothing.  There is no reasonable amount of money that would convince Disney to sell that property.  Frozen has made maybe three billion dollars for Disney.  It might make three billion more.  And yet not even for twice that amount would Disney sell.  They wouldn't even entertain offers, so any smart alec claiming Disney would sell for "a trillion dollars" would first have to figure out how to make that offer in person, and Disney would never even allow themselves to hear the offer.  Frozen is a signature Disney property.  The reputation cost of selling it makes any monetary profit meaningless.  Disney would forever have to deal with the fact that people would wonder why Disney did it.  They would have to deal with another company operating that IP in their face.  Disney wouldn't sell for the simple reason that you can give Disney enough money to compensate them for the lost value of the property, but you can't compensate them for all the negatives associated with someone else having it.

When a company like NCSoft sells a property like City of Heroes, its often the latter that is ultimately more important.  They want to be compensated for the value of the property itself, like an actual sale of some commodity.  But they also more importantly need to deal with a world in which someone else is operating something that used to be theirs, and is associated with them.  And that's not a one-dimensional problem that some quantity of money solves.

When such deals happen quickly, its usually because the seller wants to sell, and has already made the decision that they can deal with someone else having it.  A seller-driven sale tends to happen more quickly because its easier for find buyers willing to own it and can afford it.  But buyer-driven sales tend to be slower, because you have to convince the seller to sell, and to negotiate the right conditions under which they will be comfortable with that sale.  So when people say "things have happened faster" that's true, but often under completely different conditions.  Companies that are sold are more often seller-driven deals when the owners of the company actively look for buyers.  Buyer-driven deals, hostile or otherwise, tend to be far, far slower because unless the seller is comfortable with the deal conditions, no amount of money will likely make the deal go faster.

The reason why seller-driven deals tend to be much faster is pretty straight forward.  When a seller wants to sell, they just have to find a buyer willing to buy, and they potentially have a pool of potential buyers from which to find at least one.  You have more than one opportunity to find optimum buyers.  But when a buyer wants to buy, they normally want to buy a specific something.  So there's usually only one seller: they cannot look for better sellers of that thing.  When there's lots of sellers the situation is different but many sellers one buyer tends to be the exception not the rule.  So sellers can *find* buyers, but buyers often have no choice but to *wait* for the one seller to want to sell.  That one parameter fundamentally dictates the pace of any deal to be made.

Twisted Toon

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #19293 on: September 04, 2015, 09:02:25 PM »
I don't understand how so many of you can be eternally optimistic about the outcome of this thing.  Apparently you all have business degrees though.

No Business Degree.  However, I am affiliated with the Blue Lantern Corp.

Also...

 Dum Spiro, Spero.

In addition...

 Hope springs eternal.

And...

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Hope ... is not a feeling; it is something you do. - Katherine Paterson

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DanPan89

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #19294 on: September 04, 2015, 09:47:45 PM »
I think most people that haven't gone through business negotiations before view this as, more or less, akin to buying a used car.  It's there, sitting, we've made an offer for said car.  It's essentially rusting away.  Yes or no to my offer?

That's NOT what is involved with this kind of deal. 

As Arcana, I believe, pointed out, this is, essentially, negotiation by committee.  So the salesman doesn't have to just get his manager's approval.  He has to get six people to sign off on the sale of the car.  And, oh, yeah, Joe's with another customer right now.  And Ed's on vacation.  Bill?  He was here just a minute ago.  Does anyone know where Bill is?  From this standpoint, it truly is like herding cats to get all necessary people to sign off on the deal.

Now, that said, I would assume that there are multiple deals going here.

1)  What's the business plan?  (In other words, how does NCSoft know that Nate and Co can run/manage the game?)  Note that this doesn't just include, "Show us what you got," but were I in NCSoft's shoes, I'd want to know things like projected income/expenses associated with setting up and running the game, where they'd host, how will the store work, will there be a store, justification of these decisions, etc.  And if any of those issues NCSoft didn't like?  It would be a discussion about how NCSoft thought there was a better way to do it, or pointing out perceived flaws in the plan and having to rework it. 

2)  I'd assume that Nate and Co want to see a working image of the game.  Going back to the car analogy, this would be like taking the car for a test drive.  Just because a "car" is sitting on the lot doesn't mean it can start and drive.  Again, the engineering resources NCSoft may be willing to apply to making that disk image work may be low, so it may be taking time for them to untangle the spaghetti code.  While it may be being worked on, again, I'm betting that any engineer working on this part of it is not spending a lot of his time on it, as they probably have a lot more pressing issues.  Put another way:  His/her annual review probably relates to current live games.  If they let this game slip a bit, it's probably not going to hurt their review as much as resurrecting a game image instead of fixing those bugs in Aion would. 

3)  What rights are associated with the game?  Can Nate and Co change splash screens?  Does NCSoft's logo have to be plastered all over things?  Can they hold annual events, like the ski chalet?  Do they have the tools to open the chalet?  To turn on 2xp?   Even if they do, are they allowed to?  Or is the game actually set in stone at I23's normal state?

4)  Licensing agreements?  Does NCSoft have any input on that at all?  Can the holding company license things to anyone they want without any input from NCSoft?  Does NCSoft retain any rights?  What rights do they retain?  Can NCSoft use Statesman, etc. if they so decide, once the sale goes through, without contacting the holding company?

5)  Terms.  What's the up front payment?  What are the periodic payments, if any?  What happens if the cash flow set up in part 1 isn't there?  How long will the contract be in effect?  Is this a lease or a purchase?

6)  Other things I'm not thinking of

That's a whole lot of stuff to get consensus on.  Each one of those things not only has to be agreed to by the people Nate is talking to, but I guarantee that NCSoft's corporate lawyers are involved.  And that's another layer of things dragging on the timeline.  Even if the managers, etc. say, "Sure," the lawyers could, and probably are, coming back saying, "Giving up the rights to those characters is not in the best interests of the corporation.  We've made edits to the contract." and the whole process starts over again.

There's a LOT more to this than just buying a car.  It's more like buying a NASCAR, showing the sponsors you can drive at 200 mph and have a decent pit crew, and figuring out not only who the sponsors will be but also where their logos will be placed on the car.

This isn't a sprint.  It's a marathon.  That's why no news is good news.

^
^
This

I know I already posted this in the other thread, but I guess some people in this thread might not have seen/noticed downix's reply to this well thought out summary of what may be going on in these talks.  :)

Arcana

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #19295 on: September 04, 2015, 09:58:06 PM »
I was making an observation that after the big reveal this time last year, I would have expected SOMETHING by now.

Precisely why I said it was a horrible mistake for anyone to have said anything.  Remember: this was an accidental disclosure.  They did not deliberately intend to make a public announcement, and extrapolating what should be happening now based on the fact that they made an announcement in the past is somewhat disconnected.

Quote
Apparently you all have business degrees though.

And this is precisely why the rule is to never announce anything until you have something to announce, and you know precisely what the timeframes are for the thing you're discussing.  Otherwise, it always blows up in your face because everyone thinks they can guess what must be happening and what any piece of information of lack thereof must mean.

If you're not in the loop, you just don't know.  What having been in the loop many times before tells me is that not being in the loop now means I don't know, and everyone else outside the loop theorizing know even less.  Business degrees don't tell you how deals go.  Doing deals does.  If you do enough of them, you know they involve people, and people are inherently unpredictable.

Mistress Urd

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #19296 on: September 04, 2015, 10:07:35 PM »
Until a CoH successor is ready NCSoft has little reason to pull the trigger.

I've said that before, I'm hopeful it isn't true because I want the actual game back.

Noyjitat

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #19297 on: September 04, 2015, 10:14:39 PM »
I used to flip my settings back and forth from high to low and back again often because I often ran "multibox" (really multi-session) setups for extended periods of time for a variety of reasons, and running with lower graphics settings allowed me to run more simultaneous sessions.  Sometimes I forgot to change it back when I was playing conventionally.

The short answer is yes.

Arcana

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #19298 on: September 04, 2015, 11:57:23 PM »
I used to flip my settings back and forth from high to low and back again often because I often ran "multibox" (really multi-session) setups for extended periods of time for a variety of reasons, and running with lower graphics settings allowed me to run more simultaneous sessions.  Sometimes I forgot to change it back when I was playing conventionally.
The short answer is yes.

Well...

Quote
Was this screenshot taken on lower settings, or were the graphics actually worse than I remember them being?

Yes.

I guess a short answer would have been "yes."  Not sure if it says what you think it says, though.

ivanhedgehog

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #19299 on: September 05, 2015, 12:42:14 AM »
The short answer is yes.


Well...

Yes.

I guess a short answer would have been "yes."  Not sure if it says what you think it says, though.

42...also a short answer