Except that there's no difference between the two. The code is the engine is the engine is the code.
COH is not like most games these days where they buy a prebuilt engine and add their own logic on top of it, often managed code like C# and Java, or even JavaScript.
When it was developed, MMOs were in their infancy. No suitable engine for such a game existed. The engine that was created for COH has no separation from the game itself. All of the logic is hardcoded into the engine, since it's not an off the shelf product -- it's something that was developed exclusively for COH.
It later went on to become the Cryptic engine and power CO, Star Trek: Online, and Neverwinter, but only after Cryptic spent a large amount of effort (likely several developer-years) to remove most of the COH-specific aspects of it and make it useable for other things.
Long story short, you won't find any code that can be purchased or transferred that isn't part of the engine. You might get some data files like Excel spreadsheets with powers numbers, but nothing that can be dropped into a game engine. You're going to be reimplementing everything from scratch.
That said, if someone wants to acquire the IP, I still think it's a good idea. I'll say "Good luck with that" to the idea of transplanting it to a different engine, but even if that fails, all is not lost. Getting the rights out of NCSoft's hands and into someone's who may be less likely to cause legal trouble for certain projects could be a good thing.
Aye. Just getting it out of NC Soft's hands and into the 'right' hands would be a massive start. It opens up new horizons for the game as was and the IP/game as it could be going forwards.
Unlike other MMOs, CoH and Cryptic were pioneers for the modern MMO in many ways..?
Codewalker applies his laser like precision here.
i.e. the engine and it's IP assets are inextricably woven rather than perhaps something like modern games where you have an Unreal engine and everything 'sitting on top?'
I'm not a coder.
But I get the basic idea of what Codewalker is saying here.
Ie it was probably a large effort for Cryptic to decouple the 'engine' from the CoH specific IP/Code/Art/Design/Assets/Game logic/Animations/Combat etc. There would be 'tendrils' (APIs?) that would plug into or more...'hard wired' into the engine as it was back then. But clearly, for Cryptic to have used that engine as the basis for Star Trek (no offence, I can't believe that game lives...or Champions...while CoH is out of commission...), Champions and even Neverwinter (to my amazement...) they must have decoupled the CoH specific assets and sure, they'd know how. But porting CoH to a new engine wouldn't be straight forward given it's 'hybrid' nature?
So, given that it's 'only' code and all you need it 'time.' (People's trade, their time is always a premium. But it's something we can give freely if we love something...) It's not inconceivable that the code base could be acquired and the CoH specific aspects and assets could be ported to a new engine. However, it would first have to be de-coupled as Cryptic surely must have done...and those tendrils re-written from the ground up to fit into another engine. It doesn't sound like minor work given the scenario that Codewalker outlined. Hmm.
But if the IP was decoupled from NC Soft, it's the 1st stage of the community getting back what was lost. And getting new owners should be the first part of taking the game back permanently for the fans. And there in lays the rub. Are the new owners going to 'give' the game to the community? Open source the code? Allow modding and patching etc? Allow them to contribute to future patches? Or are they in it purely to make money? Maybe they can do both. It sounds like they want the game back for the community and it will have to cover costs at least.
As Codewalker hints. With new ownership allows potential new thought to 'certain' projects having the kind of relationship 'old' games (supported by the community) have with other gaming studios. As retroware. As a loved game. City of Heroes should rightfully take it's place along with those other elder statesmen (pun not intended until I thought about it...) of the MMO and gaming scene.
So, you could, in theory, have City of Heroes assets, in time, ported to a new engine. But that may include rewriting the intimate coupling to allow such a conversion. And then, when you do that? You have a game that may not quite feel(!) the same. Act the same. Look quite the same. The temptation may be to update the graphics and even its hallowed gameplay (which for me, makes the game...) A case in point, Unreal Tourney was pitch perfect. Unreal Tourney 2003 (was it?) looked pretty but played lead footed by comparison... And you have the City of Heroes was great...but lets make it even better because we have some cool new ideas i.e. City of Heroes '2' aka Champions by Cryptic themselves using the same CORE engine? (and similar/identical sound effects here and there...
) But it was a disaster.
0. CoH - Leased engine.
We get our game back. Yay. Twinkie cakes!!!
*(Hope the 'new group' are open to leasing it. Well, hopefully NC Soft are open to leasing the engine as well... But as Codewalker says, the Code and engine are more or less fused together. So we may be back to a studio/publisher relationship? Unless it can be bought outright.)
1. Coh 1.0. Conversion.
So, the option would allow a City of Heroes conversion to a new engine. With all the assets (design, interface, animation, textures, sounds, gameplay, combat, AI, chat window, maps, war walls etc) converted as purely, faithfully and meticulously as can be done with conversion APIs re-written (emulated?) to plug into eg. Unreal 3/4 or open source friendly engine.
*(with maybe the option of updated texture assets on this new engine? Ie like Ultra Mode 2.)*((See Marathon by Bungie which was take back by the community...see far below...)) I'd say, for the most part, this could be pretty close. It would allow the graphics to be given a thorough update in terms of textures 1st (and presumably) the bigger job of updating the geometry later..?
Could take years says Codewarrior. A bit like the effort to decouple the 'hard wired' colour graphics of the powers to customisation of colours for the fx (once described as impossible and with more coders...er...'wasn't.'
However, there's the danger when you 'convert' something you lose a bit of it's soul. (Having said that, the C64 emulators are like playing the original console... So given enough community backing CoH could be restored. What we don't want is new owners that are going to treat the IP worse. Of course, I'm optimistic that the people concerned have the best concerns for the IP and the community.)
2. Coh 1.5. New Graphics.
You'd then own the rights for a City of Heroes 1.5...with updated graphics assets (i.e. think Ultra Mode 3...). i.e. the new owners may feel it's time to update the geometry and textures i.e. 'may as well' (type thinking) as 'we're moving to a new engine anyway...' (...and there's the temptation to tinker with it's fabled game play etc.)
3. City of Heroes 2? New game.
New game/gameplay? New sound. Gameplay 'weaknesses' addressed for a 'non-static' game play mode (*shudders - *thinks of Champions and it's jerky and skittish animation...and 'ice skating' gameplay...) Probably based around a popular games engine like Unreal 4?
You see a bit of the avalanche of people who played CoH but have an avalanche of criticism for it's combat. Which makes me wonder why they played it... Take away how it played and it's no longer CoH. I hear this kind of thinking in Valiance and City of Titans where they're discussing 'dynamic' vs Static ('rooted') play and, heaven forbid, the idea of Champions style energy builders... *Looks skyward. 'We liked it but...' approach. And there's the 'as close as we legally can...' approach of Heroes and Villains. We'll see Re: the spiritual successors. At least they're doing something about it. But me? I just want the original game back.
4. Original Game. (Emulation?)
Also, this could allow any 'certain' projects to break cover with a quiet 'blessing' from the new owners?
So, we'd maybe get the original game back with the old engine, another version converted to a new engine...which would lay the ground for the 3rd version. City of Heroes 2.
Those are potential scenarios.
Me. I'd take the game back as is. Cryptic must own the engine or the right to use their own engine. NC Soft must have bought the right to use the engine or bought it outright and permanently leased it back to Cryptic. or Vise versa. Similarly, NC might be open to leasing the engine which means it would be just a matter of putting the right staffing in place to get an MMO to market. And I'd like to think that Chris Chung and/or the new group are open to the idea of leasing with, I guess, royalties going back to NC Soft for their engine tech'.
I remember when Mac fans were worried about their game, 'Marathon' when Bungie got acquired by Micro Soft. In fact, it was Halo (a kind of spiritual successor..?) that was previewed at a Steve Jobs keynote...and then appeared on X- Box first because of the acquisition. But work was under taken by the community (I think with Bungie's blessing...) to 'take back' Marathon Trilogy for the community. And it has bit maps etc...that were updated with Open Gl shading etc. Not exactly the 'same' situation. But it adds credence to the motto that it's only time...and...code...
But any move forwards is a positive thing. A new home. New ideas. New thinking. The iron grip of sitting on an IP gathering dust is loosened. The game deserves to live. Perhaps in many forms.
Keep holding that torch aloft, Ironwolf.
Azrael.
PS.
http://marathon.sourceforge.net/games/infinity.phpIf you're a Mac fan and never played this? You've missed out. Worth it for one of the pioneering 1st person shooters. Good atmosphere and gameplay. Makes you think...too!
It proves the adage that good old games never die?
Hope for City of Heroes, then...
