Author Topic: New efforts!  (Read 7279674 times)

Vee

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #16780 on: May 05, 2015, 08:52:18 PM »
All this talk reminds me of Palahniuk's take on cybernetic implants in "Rant" (I think, all of them after "Diary" kind of run together and are just terrible). Everyone ended up using their VR implants to watch other people's experiences, with the most popular being a little girl's trip to the park. They then re-recorded it being watched by other people to get layers of their experiencing her day. Eventually they ended up with an aggregate video of her day as experienced by a dog and a heroin addict being hugely popular.

We could all sit around watching CoH vids layered with various players' experiences of it. Like an all troller ITF from the presumably floating perspective of Floating Fat Man layered with Arcana's perspective which I'm going to imagine looks an awful lot like the Matrix's stylized binary code.

Inc42

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #16781 on: May 05, 2015, 08:55:37 PM »
I foresee many disabled people being REALLY upset.

Again, in the book I was referencing the treadmill aspect was totally optional. Most players used a combination of finger movements with the gloves, voice commands, and movement of head and eyes to control everything.

Taceus Jiwede

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #16782 on: May 05, 2015, 09:10:29 PM »
Yeah.  Not going to happen, at least not on that timeline.  Technology ... fantasicsts I guess they are, seem to like to presume that because technological progress seems to be accelerating.....

Don't make me wave my hand's around and yell "Science"!

Will that be possible by 2045?  Probably not.  Will I benefit from it if it does?  Not likely.  Success is fine and dandy and all.  But the fact someone is even going for it is what really matters.

I think the biggest thing people leave out is even if it did work.  How do you know it would be you?  It could just be a copy of you.  It could think its you, it could have your memories, it could look like you, talk like you, and smell like you.  But it would be a leap of faith to assume it would be you  for all we know the person dies when you try to hook them up to this Avatar and then just an emulation of that person could remain.  And no one would ever know.  So forget being mourned.

EDIT:  Also people owning their own jetpacks to fly to work won't happen.  Not because it couldn't happen, because it easily could.  But because its extremely unpractical, the amount of daily commute casualties would sky rocket (No pun intended, but certainly enjoyed)  Jetpacks are dangerous, they are basically bombs strapped to your body as you float a lethal amount of feet away from the ground.  And if everyone had jetpack its a recipe for disaster.  We can barely manage to work the giant hunks of metal that go really fast we drive around all day.  Lets remove the metal womb, keep the speed, elevate you, and then strap a bomb to your back.  Hell of a sales pitch.  So. Whats it gonna take to get  YOU in a THAT jetpack today?  also it would be really scary to fly one around.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2015, 09:25:43 PM by Taceus Jiwede »

Twisted Toon

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #16783 on: May 05, 2015, 09:25:36 PM »
I think the biggest thing people leave out is even if it did work.  How do you know it would be you?  It could just be a copy of you.  It could think its you, it could have your memories, it could look like you, talk like you, and smell like you.  But it would be a leap of faith to assume it would be you  for all we know the person dies when you try to hook them up to this Avatar and then just an emulation of that person could remain.  And no one would ever know.  So forget being mourned.

Well, you know. If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, and looks like a duck...


















It's probably an elephant.
Hope never abandons you, you abandon it. - George Weinberg

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LaughingAlex

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #16784 on: May 05, 2015, 09:27:24 PM »
Have you SEEN the average gamer?



You should take a look at some competitive gamers though.  Maybe the average mmorpg gamer but many other gamers who play games requiring a working brain also having a fully functioning brain requires a level of fitness to ensure oxygen can reach the brain and general stamina allows the player to avoid mistakes.

No, i'm not a king of fitness, though i'm no where near as bad as the guy in that episode :).  Actually though he'd not get any kills in any real competitive game though being that unfit, due to his reflexes also being poor and general stamina being poor.

Edit: And the above is about 80% of why i'm actually getting tired of the rain we keep getting in NM.  Sure, we need rain but it's keeping me from taking the occasional walk or actually doing the yard work I do sometimes do.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2015, 09:33:06 PM by LaughingAlex »
Currently; Not doing any streaming, found myself with less time available recently.  Still playing starbound periodically, though I am thinking of trying other games.  Don't tell me to play mmohtg's though please :).  Getting back into participating in VO and the successors again to.

Taceus Jiwede

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #16785 on: May 05, 2015, 09:27:46 PM »
Well, you know. If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, and looks like a duck...

It's probably an elephant.

A mother ducking elephant?!

Arcana

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #16786 on: May 05, 2015, 09:33:21 PM »
I think the biggest thing people leave out is even if it did work.  How do you know it would be you?  It could just be a copy of you.  It could think its you, it could have your memories, it could look like you, talk like you, and smell like you.  But it would be a leap of faith to assume it would be you  for all we know the person dies when you try to hook them up to this Avatar and then just an emulation of that person could remain.  And no one would ever know.  So forget being mourned.

Its easy to get tangled in the philosophical implications, but its important to note that on a physical level you aren't even the same you from last year, or even last hour.  Until you can answer the question of whether you are absolutely certain you are the same you that you were when to went to bed last night in whatever way you feel is most meaningful, this question is essentially meaningless (personally: legally its a different story).

I'm reminded of a conversation I had with someone over the concept of a Star Trek-like transporter.  He asked the question how any such device could put every single particle of your body back together in exactly the precise configuration when quantum mechanics says that's impossible - not just technologically impossible, but literally impossible.  And I asked the more important counter-question: how does the universe do that when you walk across the room?  Answer: it does not.  Quantum mechanics dictates that the subatomic particles that make up your body cannot stay in a precise configuration because quantum mechanics forbids it.  And yet you still exist.  That's because most variations of your quantum state produce a person indistinguishable from each other.

Continuity of existence is really an illusion, a classical approximation to the discontinuity of quantum mechanics.  But if that illusion is the one reality we can ever experience, does it matter that its an illusion?  Its a truism that the only reality we can perceive is perceivable reality.

Which brings up probably the most epistemologically twisted aspect of this subject.  We don't experience the past, we only remember it.  So we cannot base our sense of continuous existence on the past, but only our memories of the past.  So the question becomes, if you are told that you are a construct and your memories are not your own but granted to you by a technological process, in what way would that be distinguishable from the alternative?  If its impossible to tell the difference, is that a distinction with any real meaning?

Arcana

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #16787 on: May 05, 2015, 09:49:04 PM »
EDIT:  Also people owning their own jetpacks to fly to work won't happen.  Not because it couldn't happen, because it easily could.  But because its extremely unpractical, the amount of daily commute casualties would sky rocket (No pun intended, but certainly enjoyed)  Jetpacks are dangerous, they are basically bombs strapped to your body as you float a lethal amount of feet away from the ground.  And if everyone had jetpack its a recipe for disaster.  We can barely manage to work the giant hunks of metal that go really fast we drive around all day.  Lets remove the metal womb, keep the speed, elevate you, and then strap a bomb to your back.  Hell of a sales pitch.  So. Whats it gonna take to get  YOU in a THAT jetpack today?  also it would be really scary to fly one around.

Exactly.

Although, now consider a world in which people don't drive anymore, because computer controlled drivers are considered safer, liability law is reworked to account for them, insurance is cheaper if you don't drive manually, all cars are legally mandated to have the option like reverse cameras, city traffic systems are integrated with them, and its benefits and flaws are both socially accepted.  That day looks much more likely to happen eventually.

Now reconsider the jetpack. 

One day, we might look back on the days before the jetpack and laugh to ourselves about how we kept trying and failing to make jetpacks, when the problem all along was that the world simply wasn't ready for them.  And then one day the world was ready for them, and very soon afterwards they were everywhere.  Jetpacks today might be like the Palm Pilot in 1996.  Interesting in theory, but ultimately there was no way for any company to convert the Pilot from a novelty to a lasting success.  What the Pilot needed was not just faster processors and a better screen, but also a more well-developed internet, better cellular communications technology, and a much more connected customer base.  It needed a company like Apple willing to spend the money to develop the product and a company like AT&T willing to subsidize it to attract customers and a rising manufacturing industry in China looking for something to make and sell.

The world was not ready for the Pilot in 1996.  The world was ready for the iPhone in 2007.  It just didn't know that until Apple decided to make one.  But if Apple tried to make the iPhone in 1997, they would have failed no differently than Palm ultimately did.  That's true even if you somehow magically transported the technology within the original iPhone to 1997.

Taceus Jiwede

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #16788 on: May 05, 2015, 09:56:19 PM »
Its easy to get tangled in the philosophical implications, but its important to note that on a physical level you aren't even the same you from last year, or even last hour....

Cutting the post down just for room's sake. 

I agree with what you said.  And you are right I can't prove that.  In fact many people have, as I am sure you know, "false memories"  things that could have never happened.  Yet we can remember them, so to say they aren't real is a stretch.  If someone told me I was a reconstruction of my former self with all my memories I would actually pity my former self.  Because am I still really him?  And from your point in many ways I already AM that.  But I mean in terms of consciousness.  Even if you could replicate your consciousness and emulate it.  Does that make it yours?  And I agree that this could be discussed in circles forever.  And in many way's it doesn't entirely matter.  But I feel its a thought to ponder when immorality is what is trying to be achieved (or more likely just prolonged life spans cause ick to being immortal) because if isn't actually the you as you know and perceive right now as your consciousness then what is the point?  I mean sure the other "you" would be a successful version of you, and for all intensive purposes is you.  But you didn't actually achieve immortality if it is just a copy of you.

I know its splitting hairs, and everything you said is completely true.  So much of it is semantics and perception.  But when attempting to cross the threshold they are trying to cross.  It merits being taken into consideration.

EDIT:  Didn't want to add another post for this

Quote
The world was not ready for the Pilot in 1996.  The world was ready for the iPhone in 2007.  It just didn't know that until Apple decided to make one.  But if Apple tried to make the iPhone in 1997, they would have failed no differently than Palm ultimately did.  That's true even if you somehow magically transported the technology within the original iPhone to 1997.

Very, very, VERY good point.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2015, 10:04:19 PM by Taceus Jiwede »

Remaugen

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #16789 on: May 05, 2015, 10:01:02 PM »

. . . <Snip!>Now reconsider the jetpack.<Snip!> . . . 



Well I am ready for my jetpack! Bring it on!

Since I am never going to gain super powered flight like superman, the jetpack remains my best hope. Unless of course, a practical gravity belt that won't twist my body into knots comes along first. . .
We're almost there!  ;D

The RNG hates me.

FloatingFatMan

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #16790 on: May 05, 2015, 10:10:24 PM »
You should take a look at some competitive gamers though.  Maybe the average mmorpg gamer but many other gamers who play games requiring a working brain also having a fully functioning brain requires a level of fitness to ensure oxygen can reach the brain and general stamina allows the player to avoid mistakes.

No, i'm not a king of fitness, though i'm no where near as bad as the guy in that episode :).  Actually though he'd not get any kills in any real competitive game though being that unfit, due to his reflexes also being poor and general stamina being poor.

Edit: And the above is about 80% of why i'm actually getting tired of the rain we keep getting in NM.  Sure, we need rain but it's keeping me from taking the occasional walk or actually doing the yard work I do sometimes do.

Dude. Stop over-analysing a joke and just laugh! :P

Sheesh... You -really- need to get out more! ;)

Arcana

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #16791 on: May 06, 2015, 12:32:53 AM »
Sheesh... You -really- need to get out more! ;)


LaughingAlex

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #16792 on: May 06, 2015, 03:03:42 AM »
Dude. Stop over-analysing a joke and just laugh! :P

Sheesh... You -really- need to get out more! ;)

See Arcana's picture above :).  It's been surprisingly rainy here in new mexico.
Currently; Not doing any streaming, found myself with less time available recently.  Still playing starbound periodically, though I am thinking of trying other games.  Don't tell me to play mmohtg's though please :).  Getting back into participating in VO and the successors again to.

LadyVamp

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #16793 on: May 06, 2015, 03:17:07 AM »
We often assume that high technology is an inexorable ratchet forward, but that's not true.  We had a working launch platform to get to Mars forty years ago.  It was called the Saturn V and it took us to the moon.  We don't have one today, and we can't just go back to the original blueprints and make one.

Actually, that is being worked on today.  NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center is salvaging old F-1 engine parts and trying to rebuild that beast.  You are correct that there are no blueprints.  Each F-1 was a unique engine.  I don't have the link anymore but a friend of mine showed me an article where they were using touch based scanning technology to take measurements of the various parts and try to build a set of blueprints.

I hope they succeed, and we get to see that monster roar to life again.
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Twisted Toon

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #16794 on: May 06, 2015, 03:24:12 AM »
See Arcana's picture above :).  It's been surprisingly rainy here in new mexico.
I'd walk in the rain. I like the rain. I'd love to experience a true thunderstorm in SoCal. Not a true SoCAl thunderstorm, but an honest to goodness thunderstorm like they have in Tornado Alley. One flash of lightning and people here run for the hills...figuratively speaking.

Rain is not a valid excuse for not walking...in my opinion.  ;)
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Ultimate15

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #16795 on: May 06, 2015, 04:06:31 AM »

From Massively Overpowered:

NathanielDownes


@Domesticon - I've talked to a few people within NCSoft, and the general consensus is that we've avoided any trouble thanks to our approach (inspiration, not duplication). There is a group negotiating with them for the rights to the IP, but that has been slow going due to the ongoing Nexon drama I've been led to understand


...So I could very well be reading into this completely incorrectly - and please, let me know if I'm wrong.

But did anyone process Nate's comment here and gather that he may not be directly involved with the negotiations anymore? Granted, I'm sure he's still under an NDA of some kind (although, his willingness to make a post like this on a somewhat popular website in a particular 'hot topic' thread regarding City of Titans is an interesting move on his end, I must say...)  but the way we said 'There is a group negotiating with them for the rights to the IP...' and '...I've been led to understand' leads me to suspect that this isn't something he may have a lot of direct/constant info on at this time?

Perhaps that's why things have been so in the dark? *laughs* Here we are, banging down poor Nate's door...and he might be waiting on an update himself?

Yes? No? Huuuuuh? Also, I ate SOOOO many chips and guacamole for Cinco de Mayo I think I'm turning into an avocado.
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Sinistar

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #16796 on: May 06, 2015, 04:19:02 AM »
...So I could very well be reading into this completely incorrectly - and please, let me know if I'm wrong.

But did anyone process Nate's comment here and gather that he may not be directly involved with the negotiations anymore? Granted, I'm sure he's still under an NDA of some kind (although, his willingness to make a post like this on a somewhat popular website in a particular 'hot topic' thread regarding City of Titans is an interesting move on his end, I must say...)  but the way we said 'There is a group negotiating with them for the rights to the IP...' and '...I've been led to understand' leads me to suspect that this isn't something he may have a lot of direct/constant info on at this time?

Perhaps that's why things have been so in the dark? *laughs* Here we are, banging down poor Nate's door...and he might be waiting on an update himself?

Yes? No? Huuuuuh? Also, I ate SOOOO many chips and guacamole for Cinco de Mayo I think I'm turning into an avocado.

For all we know he is part of the group but cannot/will not state that.

In any event at least they are still talking.
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tripthicket

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #16797 on: May 06, 2015, 04:24:58 AM »
Also, I ate SOOOO many chips and guacamole for Cinco de Mayo I think I'm turning into an avocado.

So...you're a lawyer now?

Power Gamer

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #16798 on: May 06, 2015, 05:01:33 AM »
So...you're a lawyer now?

YOU have been watching too much Daredevil.

DO IT AGAIN!  ;D
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FloatingFatMan

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #16799 on: May 06, 2015, 06:07:27 AM »
See Arcana's picture above :).  It's been surprisingly rainy here in new mexico.

Pfft. I'm British! I don't need telling about rain! ;)  Go out, get wet, jump in puddles, be a kid again! Revel in nature!

(Then catch cold and actually have a GOOD excuse for spending 2 weeks in bed! ;) )