Author Topic: New efforts!  (Read 7272975 times)

Stitchified

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #19200 on: August 27, 2015, 01:02:30 AM »
The common teleport bind would bind teleport to something like shift + click, i.e. LSHIFT + LCLICK to activate teleport when the left shift key was held down and the left mouse button was clicked.  The clever part of the bind is that by binding to a mouse click itself teleport would activate with a target, allowing you with one click to teleport in the direction of the cursor.
That explains it! thanks bunches! Now I'll be able to enjoy Teleport... It's my favorite Travel Power but also is the one I never used because when I first played CoH, I didn't know how to set Key Binds.

Of course, the characters I had didn't exactly fit in with being able to Teleport, I mean, maybe my Merc/Traps Mastermind, via a belt gadget similar to Lord Recluse's Belt at the end of the book "The Web of Arachnos" but I didn't think of that at the time :P

scope.creep

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #19201 on: August 27, 2015, 02:32:31 AM »
I once six-slotted teleport with range SOs, just for the halibut. It was amazingly fast. I don't recall falling from the sky due to end woes... Seems to me that I pretty much got wherever I was going before running out.

pinballdave

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #19202 on: August 27, 2015, 03:59:12 AM »
If you were going to long-range teleport without resting, you needed to do two things.  One: obviously slot for endred.  Two: don't teleport at maximum speed.  With practice, you could find the sweet spot between teleporting too slowly and falling too much in between 'ports, and teleporting too quickly and increasing your eps burn rate too high to be sustainable (at least long enough to reach your destination).  A middle-ground "lazy" teleport pace would try to rest for as long as possible during the residual hover not to necessarily recover end per se, but to reduce the burn rate to something about half as high while still being pretty fast in terms of distance traveled.

I used to slot one range one endred, and that did me pretty well while teleporting.  Detoggling everything off while teleporting long-range also helped.

Blink Blink, I slotted teleport for range...

LaughingAlex

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #19203 on: August 27, 2015, 04:00:20 AM »
I once six-slotted teleport with range SOs, just for the halibut. It was amazingly fast. I don't recall falling from the sky due to end woes... Seems to me that I pretty much got wherever I was going before running out.

Teleport could be out-ran by super speed without range IO's/SO's, but it had no maximum limit of "speed".  In fact I'd say, an incarnate with cardiac would be better slotting a range IO in teleport than an End reduction IO, because a single SO of end reduction was the most you'd need and even then, end recovery mattered to for teleport efficiency.  A person who recovers endurance fast enough wouldn't need any endurance reduction for teleport.
Currently; Not doing any streaming, found myself with less time available recently.  Still playing starbound periodically, though I am thinking of trying other games.  Don't tell me to play mmohtg's though please :).  Getting back into participating in VO and the successors again to.

chuckv3

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #19204 on: August 27, 2015, 02:40:28 PM »
I once six-slotted teleport with range SOs, just for the halibut. It was amazingly fast. I don't recall falling from the sky due to end woes... Seems to me that I pretty much got wherever I was going before running out.

My main reason for hover was so I could reply to chat while in the middle of chain-teleporting across the sky without having to land first or ignore the person. Like someone else mentioned, some maps just don't have enough convenient places to land. Plus it's somewhere to park a LotG global.

Twisted Toon

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #19205 on: August 27, 2015, 06:24:09 PM »
I had a character that could hover as unslotted Fly speeds. Granted, it took 3 slotting hover for flight, and 3 slotting Swift for Flight as well.
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LaughingAlex

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #19206 on: August 27, 2015, 07:01:05 PM »
Funny thing is, with afterburner, if I had hover, I just as well took flight, because of how fast afterburner boosted your flight speeds.  It wasn't teleport fast, but closer to super speed fast.  I only did that on character I could afford to dump enough powers though.
Currently; Not doing any streaming, found myself with less time available recently.  Still playing starbound periodically, though I am thinking of trying other games.  Don't tell me to play mmohtg's though please :).  Getting back into participating in VO and the successors again to.

Arcana

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #19207 on: August 27, 2015, 07:57:01 PM »
Teleport could be out-ran by super speed without range IO's/SO's, but it had no maximum limit of "speed".  In fact I'd say, an incarnate with cardiac would be better slotting a range IO in teleport than an End reduction IO, because a single SO of end reduction was the most you'd need and even then, end recovery mattered to for teleport efficiency.  A person who recovers endurance fast enough wouldn't need any endurance reduction for teleport.

So without the root times for the teleport animations in front of me, just looking at City of Data's numbers shows teleport's cast time to be 2 seconds and its endurance cost to be 13.  That means, given the residual hover lasts for four seconds, that teleport can be cast something between one port every 2 seconds and one port every 4 seconds, short of allowing yourself to fall.  We can then estimate both the maximum straight-line teleport speed and its endurance burn rate.

Teleport's base range is 300 feet.  3-slotted to about the ED cap gets us to about 480 feet.  Similar slotting for endred gets up to about 6.5 end.  At those levels of slotting teleport's maximum speed and eps is about 240 fps (352mph) and its eps is about 3.25.  3.25 eps is not quite sustainable, but it can be sustained for very long periods of time if you have good recovery and start from full end.  On a base 100 end character with the recovery of fully slotted stamina (about 2.5 eps) you have about 133 teleports of range, or about 63840 feet, or about 12 miles.

If we slow down our ports to about one every 3 seconds, we still don't fall down but we now have a sustainable teleport.  Our eps drops to 2.17eps, and that's sustainable indefinitely.  We now have infinite range and a speed of about 160 fps (about 235 mph). 

If we don't slot for endurance at all, but we have maximal cardiac, we then have +45% endred.  That reduces teleport's cost to about 8.97 end.  If we teleport as slow as possible (once per four seconds) without falling, our eps burn rate becomes 2.24eps.  That's also sustainable, at a teleport speed of about 120 fps (176 mph) with full range slotting.  So that's possible, although you have to cut it very close on timing to be truly sustainable (say you're teleporting extreme distances in the Shadow Shard).  In normal zones, even teleporting every 3 seconds gives a burn rate of 2.99 eps, which can be sustained for about 204 ports (18.5 miles).

The real problem with teleport range is turning off toggles and such.  People often didn't like to do that.  But if you have end burning powers on and you keep them on while teleporting for distance, its not uncommon to have net recovery in and around 1 eps, certainly less than 2 eps.  That makes it very difficult to sustain a teleport chain.  At 1eps net recovery instead of 2.5, the same Cardiac enhanced teleport at its slowest rate now only gets about 80 teleports before running out of endurance.  Actually, its worse than that because you have to have the end to activate teleport.  So really, once you drop below 8.97, you can't port anymore.  That happens after about 73 ports.  With range slotting that's about 6.6 miles.  Good for short haul, pushing it for medium range, and insufficient to cross very large zones.  And even if you make it, you're out of endurance when you get there.

Is it possible to run teleport with no endurance reduction of any kind, incarnate or slotting?  Sort of.  At its slowest teleport rate, an unenhanced teleport burns 3.25 eps.  There are builds with more than 3.25 eps of net recovery, so its possible.  But its not easy: base recovery is 100/60 = 1.67 eps.  That build is running at +95% recovery (assuming zero end burn rate).  And almost nothing recovers fast enough to run maximum speed teleport without endred of some kind.  That's 6.5 eps, or +289% recovery (389% recovery total).  You're talking about RA-levels of recovery to run that.

Stealth Dart

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #19208 on: August 28, 2015, 09:04:24 AM »
I am a dancer, a leaf in the wind...a leaf that can kick your Butt!

chuckv3

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #19209 on: August 28, 2015, 05:52:49 PM »
You're talking about RA-levels of recovery to run that.

I do remember habitually firing off Recovery Aura on my empathy if it was up and I was about to chain teleport somewhere. I was playing her before inherent Fitness, and if I didn't (or couldn't) fire RA I could still get pretty far by (as you and others have suggested) just slowing down the chain a little.

LaughingAlex

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #19210 on: August 28, 2015, 06:55:40 PM »
So without the root times for the teleport animations in front of me, just looking at City of Data's numbers shows teleport's cast time to be 2 seconds and its endurance cost to be 13.  That means, given the residual hover lasts for four seconds, that teleport can be cast something between one port every 2 seconds and one port every 4 seconds, short of allowing yourself to fall.  We can then estimate both the maximum straight-line teleport speed and its endurance burn rate.

Teleport's base range is 300 feet.  3-slotted to about the ED cap gets us to about 480 feet.  Similar slotting for endred gets up to about 6.5 end.  At those levels of slotting teleport's maximum speed and eps is about 240 fps (352mph) and its eps is about 3.25.  3.25 eps is not quite sustainable, but it can be sustained for very long periods of time if you have good recovery and start from full end.  On a base 100 end character with the recovery of fully slotted stamina (about 2.5 eps) you have about 133 teleports of range, or about 63840 feet, or about 12 miles.

If we slow down our ports to about one every 3 seconds, we still don't fall down but we now have a sustainable teleport.  Our eps drops to 2.17eps, and that's sustainable indefinitely.  We now have infinite range and a speed of about 160 fps (about 235 mph). 

If we don't slot for endurance at all, but we have maximal cardiac, we then have +45% endred.  That reduces teleport's cost to about 8.97 end.  If we teleport as slow as possible (once per four seconds) without falling, our eps burn rate becomes 2.24eps.  That's also sustainable, at a teleport speed of about 120 fps (176 mph) with full range slotting.  So that's possible, although you have to cut it very close on timing to be truly sustainable (say you're teleporting extreme distances in the Shadow Shard).  In normal zones, even teleporting every 3 seconds gives a burn rate of 2.99 eps, which can be sustained for about 204 ports (18.5 miles).

The real problem with teleport range is turning off toggles and such.  People often didn't like to do that.  But if you have end burning powers on and you keep them on while teleporting for distance, its not uncommon to have net recovery in and around 1 eps, certainly less than 2 eps.  That makes it very difficult to sustain a teleport chain.  At 1eps net recovery instead of 2.5, the same Cardiac enhanced teleport at its slowest rate now only gets about 80 teleports before running out of endurance.  Actually, its worse than that because you have to have the end to activate teleport.  So really, once you drop below 8.97, you can't port anymore.  That happens after about 73 ports.  With range slotting that's about 6.6 miles.  Good for short haul, pushing it for medium range, and insufficient to cross very large zones.  And even if you make it, you're out of endurance when you get there.

Is it possible to run teleport with no endurance reduction of any kind, incarnate or slotting?  Sort of.  At its slowest teleport rate, an unenhanced teleport burns 3.25 eps.  There are builds with more than 3.25 eps of net recovery, so its possible.  But its not easy: base recovery is 100/60 = 1.67 eps.  That build is running at +95% recovery (assuming zero end burn rate).  And almost nothing recovers fast enough to run maximum speed teleport without endred of some kind.  That's 6.5 eps, or +289% recovery (389% recovery total).  You're talking about RA-levels of recovery to run that.

I found it better more with teleport to pace oneself.  Got a lot of endurance, and the distance is shorter?  Teleport at maximum speeds.  Longer ranges?  Pace one self ect.  I feel endurance reduction was good to have, more because it let you teleport at fuller speeds, and getting more teleports = getting to the destination sooner.  The real reasons I liked teleport wasn't it's traveling speeds, but often the combat abilities it had in a fight.  One could teleport to reposition anywhere at any time, and with practice it was pretty crazy what one could do.

Not to mention with high defenses one could also in a bank mission teleport allies to a spot very quickly and repeatedly during a fight.  I once teleported a crazy blaster in a fight 4-5 times during a battle with the actual bank robber.
Currently; Not doing any streaming, found myself with less time available recently.  Still playing starbound periodically, though I am thinking of trying other games.  Don't tell me to play mmohtg's though please :).  Getting back into participating in VO and the successors again to.

pinballdave

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #19211 on: August 28, 2015, 08:44:50 PM »
My main reason for hover was so I could reply to chat while in the middle of chain-teleporting across the sky without having to land first or ignore the person. Like someone else mentioned, some maps just don't have enough convenient places to land. Plus it's somewhere to park a LotG global.

Here, here for the LotG. Plus, my stormies always performed better with hover placing lightning storms high in indoor maps.

Graydar

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #19212 on: August 29, 2015, 08:28:17 PM »
Gotta admin - never really made a character with storm. Didn't like it. I think it was because of gale just being a knockback and I gave up on the character. :v

srmalloy

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #19213 on: August 30, 2015, 01:37:20 AM »
In other words, PvP could be the final straw that triggered a PvE change, but generally speaking the devs didn't make PvE changes unless there was a good PvE reason for making it, regardless of PvP considerations.  PvP was changed for PvE reasons far more often than PvE was changed for PvP reasons.

The only example I can cleanly point to where a PvP issue bled back into PvE without an associated PvE issue was Movement Suppression. Players doing 'drive by' attacks with queued powers against other players ran into the issue of the target player's reaction time, where the attacking player could be back out of range before the target responded. In PvE, the NPC mobs reacted instantaneously; when you got within range and your queued power triggered, the NPC's return fire started right away, no matter how far the rest of your move took you before the attack rooted you.

HEATSTROKE

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #19214 on: August 30, 2015, 01:41:55 AM »
Gotta admin - never really made a character with storm. Didn't like it. I think it was because of gale just being a knockback and I gave up on the character. :v

 Storm was an awesome set if played well. I had an Ice/Storm controller that used controlled chaos constantly. It was amazing how much damage he could mitigate with Ice Slick, Snowstorm,  Tornado and Lightning Storm... Tornado with the -KB proc turn that power into an absolute buzzsaw btw..


 If if Wind Control had ever gone live a Wind/Storm Controller would have been awesome.. ability between Thunderclap and Microburt to stun the crap out of things repeatedly would have been glorious..

pinballdave

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #19215 on: August 30, 2015, 03:08:08 AM »
Storm was an awesome set if played well. I had an Ice/Storm controller that used controlled chaos constantly. It was amazing how much damage he could mitigate with Ice Slick, Snowstorm,  Tornado and Lightning Storm... Tornado with the -KB proc turn that power into an absolute buzzsaw btw..


 If if Wind Control had ever gone live a Wind/Storm Controller would have been awesome.. ability between Thunderclap and Microburt to stun the crap out of things repeatedly would have been glorious..

Storm was an awesome set. Players' abilities to use storm or have the disposition to use knockback was the driving emphasis behind the success of a stormer. As in all ability synergy, having a team that plays with the advantages of as many abilities available make for more successful campaigns.

I never understood  the playstyle where stormers would push foes out of the freezing rain with gale, hurricane or other kb. Stormies and Dark defenders oozed synergy with the slows and -resistances. Everything focused on piling the bodies in the tar patch of rain. When you had taunters that bought into that, everybody won.

Kassandros

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #19216 on: August 30, 2015, 03:11:53 AM »
Gotta admin - never really made a character with storm. Didn't like it. I think it was because of gale just being a knockback and I gave up on the character. :v

Funny. Gale was my favorite power in CoX. I loved the wind powers in Storm and have been disappointed that I can't blow enemies around in every single game I've played since. I only was introduced to CoX in the last year of its existence so I never experienced the highest levels, but I enjoyed playing my Storm Dragon (lightning/storm corrupter) more than any other character I've played in an RPG.

I also really hope someone gets the rights and is able to put up the old game cause I barely scratched the surface in terms of missions and other content. Kinda jealous of all you veteran players.

Edit:

I guess I should note that I nearly always played with a friend on a two-person team. They had a melee -focused corrupted and we found ways of making our team work. Just pve stuff though. I mostly just did whatever would help us out. Usually it was keeping enemies occupied while my teammate smashed them and also zapping them from afar as appropriate. Strom did keep enemies away from me which was good cause I was fragile.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2015, 03:19:00 AM by Kassandros »

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #19217 on: August 30, 2015, 03:59:27 AM »
I saved a lot of team mates with Hurricane. I'd say the Storm set was more than awesome; it was downright magnificent.

LaughingAlex

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #19218 on: August 30, 2015, 05:55:44 AM »
Storm was one of the major embodiments of what was awesome about City of heroes and why it's main competitor had no strategy in comparison to it.  You could do so many things with it's powers it was amazing, entertaining, and very skill based.

Thing was so many powersets were skill based and made such a huge difference in support.  IT's closest competitor had no strategy, at all.  No matter how many times you tried every build was the identical damage, even with differing powers it boiled down to only having a choice between more damage, defense, and healing and nothing else.  City of heroes you had debuffs and buffs to worry about and actual tactical gameplay.

I can always say that city of heroes was very strategic, for a game of it's type, far, far more-so than others for that reason.  There was no right way to play, a scant few bad ways(nothing but healing powers and ignoring EVERYTHING, or only taunting, or skipping defense powers on melee toons ect) but as long as you knew the powersets you took and what was good/bad you could make a very good character and have a fun play experience.  Most other games, if you stray from a specific setup, you get stomped and it's never fun.

Guild wars and CO were both embodiments of "Play this way or we'll make you lose".
Currently; Not doing any streaming, found myself with less time available recently.  Still playing starbound periodically, though I am thinking of trying other games.  Don't tell me to play mmohtg's though please :).  Getting back into participating in VO and the successors again to.

Kassandros

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #19219 on: August 30, 2015, 06:58:29 AM »
Funny thing is that I'm not even a fan of the superhero genre and I still loved the game - the CoV side of things anyway. I never would have tried it except that my friend waxed poetic about it and it had an F2P option so I gave it a try. I really imagine a lot of people would have loved it but they never heard about it or had no idea they'd like it. Marketing wasn't handled well I imagine.

Just seems like it offered so much that no other mmo's did or do.