New efforts!

[brothermutant]

I can always say that city of heroes was very strategic, for a game of it's type, far, far more-so than others for that reason.  There was no right way to play, a scant few bad ways(nothing but healing powers and ignoring EVERYTHING, or only taunting, or skipping defense powers on melee toons ect) but as long as you knew the powersets you took and what was good/bad you could make a very good character and have a fun play experience.  Most other games, if you stray from a specific setup, you get stomped and it's never fun.

This part to me is true but also misleading a bit. For example, in the Storm powerset, I never grabbed Hurricane or the Stun move as I personally could never get them to be useful. Others used Hurricane for GREAT effect. Didn't it have some awesome ToHit debuff on it?

Same went for Force Fields (my personal favorite secondary). Most people hated it as it wasn't particularly flashy (it really could have used a revamp I must admit). But for me, the Force Bolt alone was money well spent. I could solo most of my early content as a Grav/FF troller with some effort but without much death simply because it offered a decent CC move. Cheap, strong KB, and damn near spammable, what it lacked in damage, it definitely made up for in utility. Plus, the FF powerset, once you unlocked alt builds, could really allow you to save on power choices AND power slots. Slap a few Hami O's in Disp Bubble, get force bolt and PFF cuz you pretty much had to as a troller, and skip the teammate bubble moves if you new your pet could take it (looking at you Phantom Army) and you really started to get a chance to see what each of your main powers could do once six slotted. I just wish they made a debuff move in the FF attack powers (at least one -dmg or -ToHit would be fine). I mean Force Bubble and Repulsive Field was kinda an odd choice for powers. Repulsion bomb was a nice choice for those that really needed to floor a mob that was beating on a teammate in melee range. Didn't KB them across the room like Energy torrent IIRC and was ok dmg (for a troller anyway). I DID like the team bubbs once they made it so that we didn't have to cast in on EVERYONE separately. Great QOL improvement. One thing I learned the hard way was that one of the bubbs offered End Drain protection to your teammate. Thought that was pretty slick once all those sappers/freaks were heavy on some maps.

[KennonGL]

This part to me is true but also misleading a bit. For example, in the Storm powerset, I never grabbed Hurricane or the Stun move as I personally could never get them to be useful. Others used Hurricane for GREAT effect. Didn't it have some awesome ToHit debuff on it?

Thunderclap was of limited use (imo at least).  The stun wasn't particularly strong and it was a PBAOE.
Had it been a ranged ability, it would of been awesome and would have been in every stormie I built.

Hurricane though was wonderful.  Put it on a quick button toggle, slap in a few -ToHit enhancers and you'd be
pretty much immune to melee attacks.  Between the debuff and the repel effect, it was amazing.

There were really very few (if any) powers that I would call totally useless though.  Almost any of the powers could be useful
in specific circumstances.  I will admit that there were several that were of very limited use though.

[chuckv3]

This part to me is true but also misleading a bit. For example, in the Storm powerset, I never grabbed Hurricane or the Stun move as I personally could never get them to be useful. Others used Hurricane for GREAT effect. Didn't it have some awesome ToHit debuff on it?

Yep. And most people got their rude introduction to Storm from those Banished Pantheon LT's that look like voodoo witch doctors. The -toHit and knockback really made players up their game.

I didn't see very many storm defenders in game, but lots of people (me included) had controllers with storm secondary.

[hejtmane]

Yep. And most people got their rude introduction to Storm from those Banished Pantheon LT's that look like voodoo witch doctors. The -toHit and knockback really made players up their game.

I didn't see very many storm defenders in game, but lots of people (me included) had controllers with storm secondary.

I made an ice/storm troller once was great in team play even early levels arctic air + steamy mist + ice slick  for fun but man did it blow if i needed to solo. I just got so bored from lack of damage but in a group run in with melee drop ice slick with the stacked arctic air and steamy mist and laugh while you stood there.

[ricodah]

Yep. And most people got their rude introduction to Storm from those Banished Pantheon LT's that look like voodoo witch doctors. The -toHit and knockback really made players up their game.

Rude introductions... I remember playing the Katie Hannon TF on a scrapper with a KB protection of 4 points and needing to defeat Mary MacComber 10x.  Got skipped on land like a flat stone on water, through and into neighboring mobs, drawing more aggro than the team could handle.  It was so much fun!

[hejtmane]

Rude introductions... I remember playing the Katie Hannon TF on a scrapper with a KB protection of 4 points and needing to defeat Mary MacComber 10x.  Got skipped on land like a flat stone on water, through and into neighboring mobs, drawing more aggro than the team could handle.  It was so much fun!

Where you running dark or fire (man I fought for years to get scrappers, tanks brute etc at least a KB4 on their toggle) it was no issue before the nerf to acrobatics but once that happened dark and fire where punished unfairly imo

[Mistress Bloodwrath]

Yep. And most people got their rude introduction to Storm from those Banished Pantheon LT's that look like voodoo witch doctors. The -toHit and knockback really made players up their game.

Tsoo Sorcerers had hurricane too. Hated fighting those guys on melee characters.

[pinballdave]

Yep. And most people got their rude introduction to Storm from those Banished Pantheon LT's that look like voodoo witch doctors. The -toHit and knockback really made players up their game.

I didn't see very many storm defenders in game, but lots of people (me included) had controllers with storm secondary.

I was a crazy storm defender on Triumph. I was particularly crazy because I paired Storm with rad blast. I didn't raid Hami because of lag/machine ability, but I surely did appreciate the damage range (centrioles?) hami-Ohs I put in Cosmic Burst! The -defense/-resist in our all defender supergroup early on really beefed up builds of allies and Pug teammates with 1 acc and 5 dmg in their attack slotting.

[pinballdave]

This part to me is true but also misleading a bit. For example, in the Storm powerset, I never grabbed Hurricane or the Stun move as I personally could never get them to be useful. Others used Hurricane for GREAT effect. Didn't it have some awesome ToHit debuff on it?

Same went for Force Fields (my personal favorite secondary). Most people hated it as it wasn't particularly flashy (it really could have used a revamp I must admit). But for me, the Force Bolt alone was money well spent. I could solo most of my early content as a Grav/FF troller with some effort but without much death simply because it offered a decent CC move. Cheap, strong KB, and damn near spammable, what it lacked in damage, it definitely made up for in utility. Plus, the FF powerset, once you unlocked alt builds, could really allow you to save on power choices AND power slots. Slap a few Hami O's in Disp Bubble, get force bolt and PFF cuz you pretty much had to as a troller, and skip the teammate bubble moves if you new your pet could take it (looking at you Phantom Army) and you really started to get a chance to see what each of your main powers could do once six slotted. I just wish they made a debuff move in the FF attack powers (at least one -dmg or -ToHit would be fine). I mean Force Bubble and Repulsive Field was kinda an odd choice for powers. Repulsion bomb was a nice choice for those that really needed to floor a mob that was beating on a teammate in melee range. Didn't KB them across the room like Energy torrent IIRC and was ok dmg (for a troller anyway). I DID like the team bubbs once they made it so that we didn't have to cast in on EVERYONE separately. Great QOL improvement. One thing I learned the hard way was that one of the bubbs offered End Drain protection to your teammate. Thought that was pretty slick once all those sappers/freaks were heavy on some maps.

There were 3 occasions where I felt that the Forcefield defender/controller maximized the team's success rate. The little bubbles, the dispersion bubble were critical for end drain protection and mezz protection. Force Bubble opened a whole new game, and not just for ranged teammates. Indeed the big challenges to teams were Malta foes, and no bigger challenge than the Apex task force. In the instance where the Director was the AV, waves of Malta entered from the opposite doors. Little bubbles in place, dispersion bubble around the melee, my FF defender fired up the Force Bubble. The big bubble would push the Malta behind the racks, denying line of sight. Meanwhile your team pummeled the director since he was Repel immune. Cleaning up the Malta was cake after taking out the AV.

I have gushed before about the utility of a bubbler in the reactor room for the hero respec trial. Remember you CAN bubble the reactor core.

The Lady Grey Task Force, especially the final confrontation with Hero 1, is another occasion where maximum defense truly saved the day on many occasions.

[rkcdan]

[duane]

[Arcana]

The only example I can cleanly point to where a PvP issue bled back into PvE without an associated PvE issue was Movement Suppression. Players doing 'drive by' attacks with queued powers against other players ran into the issue of the target player's reaction time, where the attacking player could be back out of range before the target responded. In PvE, the NPC mobs reacted instantaneously; when you got within range and your queued power triggered, the NPC's return fire started right away, no matter how far the rest of your move took you before the attack rooted you.

Actually, NPCs did have a "reaction time" of sorts because the game did not "queue" attack powers for NPCs (as far as I'm aware).  The game periodically checked to see if an NPC could attack (or do anything else) on a short but finite cycle, about half a second or so I believe.

[Arcana]

Same went for Force Fields (my personal favorite secondary). Most people hated it as it wasn't particularly flashy

Given how many players were running around with Force Fields, I believe this to be another example of forum skew.  A lot of people complained about the set on the forums, but that's not the same thing as most people hating, or even slightly disliking the powerset.  Based on my own (admittedly anecdotal) play experience, Force Fields were more commonly played than more "forum-popular" sets like Trick Arrow and Sonic (Resonance). 

[worldweary]

Given how many players were running around with Force Fields, I believe this to be another example of forum skew.  A lot of people complained about the set on the forums, but that's not the same thing as most people hating, or even slightly disliking the powerset.  Based on my own (admittedly anecdotal) play experience, Force Fields were more commonly played than more "forum-popular" sets like Trick Arrow and Sonic (Resonance).

Did anyone here use Sonic Resonance?I was always told and read that every other power could do what it could and better.I'm making several different builds for each primary with a different secondary(1 for recharge,1 def,1 for all around useful team play)
and would like to ask if there are any powers that can be skipped.Having never played the set I am not sure which are the must
have powers.I would also like to ask what powers most of you skip on your builds?Maybe like a top 5 or something.

[Ironwolf]

Sonic Resonance was - ok.

If you were paired with someone with a defense based set - they loved you to death.
Clarity was great to shield squishies.
Disruption field on your Scrapper - means that ALL of a foes resistance is lower.
Liquefy - was a decent knockdown/hold power.
Sonic Cage - is a single character wormhole. Drop that Elite boss or annoying sapper out of the fight until the end.
Sonic Repulsion is a good oh crap power - that Freak Tank Slasher Boss runs up on a blaster? Drop repulsion on them it only drains power when foes get knocked away.

It was a decent set but you really have to pay attention to how you used it - not a beginners set at all.

[worldweary]

Sounds kind of like a combo of Force Field,Emp,and Storm and like those sets you really have to know how to play it.Thanks

[Vee]

Cage and repulsion were great griefing powers too.

[Arcana]

Did anyone here use Sonic Resonance?I was always told and read that every other power could do what it could and better.I'm making several different builds for each primary with a different secondary(1 for recharge,1 def,1 for all around useful team play)
and would like to ask if there are any powers that can be skipped.Having never played the set I am not sure which are the must
have powers.I would also like to ask what powers most of you skip on your builds?Maybe like a top 5 or something.

I had a Bot/Sonic that worked fairly well.  With masterminds you can always use all the sonic powers whether in a team or solo which improves the useability of the set.  And since you are basically a ranged fighter with Bots, Repulsion is useful as a keepaway (particularly when solo).

Also, for powergaming edge-case nutburgers: Stacked Clarity + Dispersion + Granite = a tank that Reichsman can't kill (a defender with empathy can do that to, but if you're going to try to duo Reichsman you'll want the -res).

[Biz]

Actually, NPCs did have a "reaction time" of sorts because the game did not "queue" attack powers for NPCs (as far as I'm aware).  The game periodically checked to see if an NPC could attack (or do anything else) on a short but finite cycle, about half a second or so I believe.

I do recall experimenting as srmalloy did and ended up with the same conclusion. The NPCs almost always got an attack off. Whatever the delay was, it was short enough for the NPC to get an attack off.

[Arcana]

I do recall experimenting as srmalloy did and ended up with the same conclusion. The NPCs almost always got an attack off. Whatever the delay was, it was short enough for the NPC to get an attack off.

These experiments are tricky to perform, because you're seeing many different effects simultaneously.  You're seeing the effects of client-side prediction, network lag, some geometry interpolation, and differing server clocks.  Furthermore, NPCs often had ranges that were longer than you might expect, which means at the instant you're in range the NPC might have already been in-range for a while.  For example, Burst (AR) had a range of 90 feet for players - its range was intrinsically better than normal for such a power (typical range for such ranged attacks was 80 feet).  However, the Council version of the same attack had a range of 100 feet - 10 feet more.  So if you approached a Council NPC wielding this attack and it fired at you at the same time your queued attack fired at him, then in fact the Council NPC fired significantly delayed from when they actually got within range - because he was in range before you were.  And if you were using a more standard attack then the range difference was 20 feet, not 10 feet.

Because range had a number of complications, including just judging range and confirming the range of NPCs, the more accurate way to test the "reaction time" of NPCs was to test their ability to use melee attacks.  Melee attacks were more limited in range and so the amount of time you were within the range of the attack was shorter, placing stricter limits on how fast the NPC had to react.  And it was possible to engineer a test in which you were only within the range of the attack for less than a quarter of a second.  In those circumstances, NPCs often did not get attacks off.  In fact, a good way to test this was to use circular running motions to "orbit" the target, dipping into and out of melee range at high speed.  In those circumstances, you could reduce NPC attack rates to dramatically lower than the recharge rate of their attacks.  It was a known (to the devs and a very few players) exploitable bug in NPC behavior when facing players moving at extremely high speed.

A part of me wonders if effects like these (there were more than the one) caused the devs to be not all that sad that PvP suppression "bled into" PvE.  The ways you could confuse NPCs with high velocity motion were numerous enough that I'm not convinced I actually know them all, because they were not commonly discussed.