Author Topic: Voices  (Read 13955 times)

Atlantea

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Re: Voices
« Reply #40 on: October 29, 2012, 08:28:49 PM »
The extra cheesy kind.

All hail the power of cheese! :D


But seriously, yes. VV - you are awesome. I've thought that long before I knew you played City of Heroes. Even when I disagreed with the stance that you used to hold on fanfic, I still thought it. One of my favorite authors plays the game? AWESOME.

And you've been incredible with your support of the movement.

If TonyV is the head and the brains and the drive of this movement, you're most certainly the heart and the inspiration and the love.

(*Edit: Er... not to say you don't have a lot of the brains too. Certainly more than mine! Just... yeah. I think you get what I'm saying.)
"I've never believed in the End Times. We are mankind. Our footprints are on the moon. When the last trumpet sounds and the Beast rises from the pit — we will KILL it."
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Segev

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Re: Voices
« Reply #41 on: October 29, 2012, 09:09:24 PM »
I hope I'm not stepping in it here to ask, but...what is VV's stance on fanfic? (The one with which Atlantea indicated he disagreed)
« Last Edit: October 31, 2012, 03:15:35 PM by Segev »

Terwyn

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Re: Voices
« Reply #42 on: October 29, 2012, 09:15:34 PM »
I hope I'm not stepping in it here to ask, but...what is VV's stance on fanfic? (The one with which Atlantea indicated she disagreed)

A very touchy legal issue.
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DrakeGrimm

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Re: Voices
« Reply #43 on: October 29, 2012, 09:31:08 PM »
A very touchy legal issue.

Unfortunately it's the same touchy legal issue for just about any creative content professional. Some day in the distant future when I get published, I'll have to follow the same guidelines VV does, just to protect myself. Unfortunate, but necessary.
We are the crazy ones, the mavericks, the dreamers, the forgotten sons. We color outside the lines for fun. We are the crazy ones! - "The Crazy Ones," Stellar Revival

"We put ourselves in "the attitude of heroes"--and we all became a little more heroic." - VV

OSWsavecoh

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Re: Voices
« Reply #44 on: October 29, 2012, 10:50:36 PM »
read, supported and commented (although I have to admit the comment is aimed more at people reading who arent already part of the movement so dont know how useful it will be).

Atlantea

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Re: Voices
« Reply #45 on: October 29, 2012, 10:52:51 PM »
I hope I'm not stepping in it here to ask, but...what is VV's stance on fanfic? (The one with which Atlantea indicated she disagreed)

Yeah - VV herself could tell you much better. But a thumbnail sketch from a layperson like me goes thusly -

VV legally CAN'T read fanfic of her own stuff.

Here's what I remember. Bad Memory disclaimer applies!

There was a legal furball between a friend of hers - Marion Zimmer Bradley (MZB) and a fan of MZB's work where the fan had written a piece of fanfic and some of the things in one of MZB's later works vaguely (VERY vaguely - as in you had to squint HARD to see it and even then...) appeared just enough close to the ideas in the fanwork... 

Basically MZB had a trusting relationship with her fans and she was also an editor and IIRC encouraged fan writers to develop their original ideas. That relationship was taken advantage of by this one person... Well it got ugly in a legal sense and actually prevented one of MZB's novels from ever seeing the light of day.

Mercedes Lackey (VV) was not directly involved, but she SAW it happen and MZB was a good friend. (In fact IIRC wasn't MZB was one of the people directly responsible for ML's first publish of the Arrows trilogy?)

VV for several years (over a decade I think) felt it necessary to discourage all fanfic based on Valdemar for concern something like the above could happen.

Until recently where a legal way of doing so that wasn't a threat was established using the Creative Commons rules. See here at VV's website.

http://www.mercedeslackey.com/news.html

And look at the bottom.

Now - I didn't agree completely with VV's stance on that through the years. Mainly I thought she might have been a little over the top with it. But I certainly understood where she was coming from once I heard the story.

Mainly I heard about it because the fanfic Drunkard's Walk about a cross-dimensional displacee named Douglas Sangnoir (Looney Toons) had as a canon element his first dimensional cross-rip visit was to Valdemar and out of respect, the author never actually wrote that segment. But started with the SECOND one, where he wound up in the world of Bubblegum Crisis. 

(BTW - I highly recommend Drunkard's Walk. It's very well written. And if you want I'll post a link to the page. But I may be biased since I'm one of the pre-readers on it.  ;D In fact the author - Bob Shroeck is a personal friend and my Supergroup leader in City of Heroes. And I'm proud to say I'm the guy who dragged him and the rest of the pre-reader crew for DW into playing City of Heroes with me.  :D  )

Now - take everything I said above and file it mostly under SPOTTY MEMORY for I fear I'm glossing over or doing a disservice to VV.

SHE should tell you the story really. Not me. I only tell it from my POV to explain the "didn't entirely agree" statement above etc etc.

So take this not just with a grain of salt, but take the entire shaker! Okay?
"I've never believed in the End Times. We are mankind. Our footprints are on the moon. When the last trumpet sounds and the Beast rises from the pit — we will KILL it."
— Gen. Stacker Pentecost

Terwyn

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Re: Voices
« Reply #46 on: October 29, 2012, 10:57:34 PM »
I am happy to report that more than a third of all visits to my blog in its existence have occurred since the posting of Part II of the Voices series. :D
Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction.
- Albert Einstein

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Atlantea

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Re: Voices
« Reply #47 on: October 29, 2012, 11:01:52 PM »
(The one with which Atlantea indicated she disagreed)

(Oh and BTW - You referenced the wrong set of plumbing. Male driver here. Don't worry. I get that a lot. Heh.

I'm known by my real name - William H. Jordan. A fannish "handle" I've had since the early 80s of Logan Darklighter and of course Atlantea.

Logan Darklighter was the name of my Traveller character when I played that game.

Atlantea was the name of my first character that I played in the P&P Champions game in 1991. And by her real name - Lora Doubet was my first City of Heroes character.

Even my real name has superhero connotations. A little over a decade ago I was a bit startled to learn that my middle name -Harold- is the long form of the name that "Hal" is a contraction of.

So yes. I'm also Green Lantern. Sort of. :D

And now you know...

...what an utter UTTER Jurassic Age geek I am.  :roll:


"I've never believed in the End Times. We are mankind. Our footprints are on the moon. When the last trumpet sounds and the Beast rises from the pit — we will KILL it."
— Gen. Stacker Pentecost

Atlantea

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Re: Voices
« Reply #48 on: October 29, 2012, 11:03:04 PM »
I am happy to report that more than a third of all visits to my blog in its existence have occurred since the posting of Part II of the Voices series. :D

Way to go!

Get that site traffic going! Woo!  :D



"I've never believed in the End Times. We are mankind. Our footprints are on the moon. When the last trumpet sounds and the Beast rises from the pit — we will KILL it."
— Gen. Stacker Pentecost

Terwyn

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Re: Voices
« Reply #49 on: October 29, 2012, 11:09:20 PM »
I've only 3 posts, though. ;)
Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction.
- Albert Einstein

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Atlantea

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Re: Voices
« Reply #50 on: October 30, 2012, 12:22:35 AM »
Oh. Well.

Woohoo just a little? *waves tiny little flag* :D
"I've never believed in the End Times. We are mankind. Our footprints are on the moon. When the last trumpet sounds and the Beast rises from the pit — we will KILL it."
— Gen. Stacker Pentecost

Victoria Victrix

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Re: Voices
« Reply #51 on: October 30, 2012, 01:20:01 AM »
I have to say, that I was always in favor of fanfic; after all I got my start writing it.  Darkover, Star Wars, Cthulhu Mythos, a little Indiana Jones...  Like MZB, I encouraged it.  Until Le Debacle.  Short form was that Marion read a piece by someone in the Darkover fan circles, liked how the author treated Lew Alton, and offered what was the usual arrangement, an acknowledgement of where the idea came from in the book that Marion was going to write.  Because, face it, it isn't the idea that is the work, it is the execution of the idea.  There was no offer of collaboration.  The author in question demanded full collaboration and payment, and threatened legal action.  As a result, Marion abandoned the half-finished book and destroyed the manuscript, which now will never be seen.  A doubly damn shame because this was one of the last things she was writing before her series of strokes started.  And at that point our mutual agent decided that Fanfic was Dangerous, and should be discouraged.  This made me sad, but the mess with Marion made us all super cautious. 

Fast forward to recently when Russ (my agent) got Cory Doctorow as a client.  Now, as we all know, Cory is Awesome personified, and is very, very much in the corner of the fanfic writers among us.  Cory persuaded Russ that it was a very, very good idea to allow Creative Commons licensing of fanfic, that fanfic is good for the author, good for the fanbase, and takes not one thin dime out of anyone's pocket.  As a result the only time Russ will turn into the Great White Shark is when someone is trying to make a profit out of fanfic.

I still can't read fanfic of my own oeuvre, which makes me sad.  But as the lawsuits against Stephen King and Jo Rowling have proved, you have to be able to rigorously prove you never saw someone else's unpublished stuff when they sue you for "stealing their idea."  But I am very, very glad that people can write their fanfic and share it now. 

And hey, Atlantea, tell Bob Shroeck he can go ahead and write the first segment now!

Now there are other writers who think that fanfic is taking some of their income.  Uh, no.  No one is ever going to write as fast as readers can read.  All fanfic does is keep the flame stoked during the wait for the next book.  But you can't convince these people, I know, I've tried.

There are other writers who don't want anyone messing with their world and characters (some have even described a feeling like "being raped" when they discovered there was fanfic about their stuff.  On the one hand, I kind of sympathize...but there is no way short of inventing mind control that any writer is ever going to be able to control what happens to his book, world, or characters once the manuscript leaves his hands.  So IMHO, I think you ought to just pull on your adult pants, face up to that, and wave goodbye to your book as it heads out into the world.  You did your best by it, you tried to make things clear, you gave it the best start in life that you could, but it's on its own now, and you can either make yourself crazy by trying and failing to keep control, or you can do the smart thing and go on to the next book.

Whew.  Sorry that turned out long and OT.
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Atlantea

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Re: Voices
« Reply #52 on: October 30, 2012, 02:49:58 AM »

Whew.  Sorry that turned out long and OT.


Nah. I'm the one who unwittingly provided the tangent, so that was my bad. :)

And Bob already knows he can start on that segment. But he's already finished the BGC one and the Oh My Goddess segment and is now in the Harry Potter segment and the Buffy the Vampire Slayer segment. I don't know when he's going to start up the Valdemar one. But the title is already set: "Drunkard's Walk I: A Horse Ain't A Horse, Of Course, Of Course".


"I've never believed in the End Times. We are mankind. Our footprints are on the moon. When the last trumpet sounds and the Beast rises from the pit — we will KILL it."
— Gen. Stacker Pentecost

Terwyn

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Re: Voices
« Reply #53 on: October 31, 2012, 06:13:11 AM »
I have been debating the various options I have in writing the third part of this series. I will not be getting into specifics, but I believe it is time that I put my education to its fullest use.

I hold in my hands the weight of more than five thousand years of culture and history. And I am more then willing to throw it.

Some of this is theoretical original research that I've been working on for the better part of a decade, and other parts are simple curiosity.

I am sure that you will find the results promise to be quite.... explosive.
Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction.
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Mentalshock

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Re: Voices
« Reply #54 on: October 31, 2012, 06:19:08 AM »
I have been debating the various options I have in writing the third part of this series. I will not be getting into specifics, but I believe it is time that I put my education to its fullest use.

I hold in my hands the weight of more than five thousand years of culture and history. And I am more then willing to throw it.

Some of this is theoretical original research that I've been working on for the better part of a decade, and other parts are simple curiosity.

I am sure that you will find the results promise to be quite.... explosive.

Why is it I already *KNOW* what you're about to do? Oh, this is going to be quite interesting indeed. 

And my initial reaction was more of 'Oh, Crap.'

   Let the fireworks begin...
« Last Edit: October 31, 2012, 06:44:32 AM by Mentalshock »

Terwyn

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Re: Voices
« Reply #55 on: October 31, 2012, 06:48:44 AM »
"Science may have found a cure for most evils, but it has found no remedy for the worst of them all--the apathy of human beings."

~Helen Keller

I have named this series "Voices" for a reason.

^_^
Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction.
- Albert Einstein

http://missingworlds.wordpress.com

Atlantea

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Re: Voices
« Reply #56 on: October 31, 2012, 07:56:56 AM »
Why is it I already *KNOW* what you're about to do? Oh, this is going to be quite interesting indeed. 

And my initial reaction was more of 'Oh, Crap.'

   Let the fireworks begin...

*Gets popcorn. Sits down to watch.*
"I've never believed in the End Times. We are mankind. Our footprints are on the moon. When the last trumpet sounds and the Beast rises from the pit — we will KILL it."
— Gen. Stacker Pentecost

DrakeGrimm

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Re: Voices
« Reply #57 on: October 31, 2012, 03:09:43 PM »
You might want to hang onto something, this could get pretty interesting.

Define interesting!


...oh god, oh god, we're all going to die?


<.<


>.>
We are the crazy ones, the mavericks, the dreamers, the forgotten sons. We color outside the lines for fun. We are the crazy ones! - "The Crazy Ones," Stellar Revival

"We put ourselves in "the attitude of heroes"--and we all became a little more heroic." - VV

Segev

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Re: Voices
« Reply #58 on: October 31, 2012, 03:17:32 PM »
(Oh and BTW - You referenced the wrong set of plumbing. Male driver here. Don't worry. I get that a lot. Heh.
My mistake; it has been corrected. (I did just guess based on the name; usually, I assume male unless told otherwise online, but this one didn't even make me blink... Glad you weren't offended, and apologies extended anyways.)

Segev

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Re: Voices
« Reply #59 on: October 31, 2012, 03:21:12 PM »
You might want to hang onto something, this could get pretty interesting.

Define interesting!


...oh god, oh god, we're all going to die?


<.<


>.>
"May you live in interesting times."