Author Topic: I feel petty, but...  (Read 8624 times)

Lily Barclay

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Re: I feel petty, but...
« Reply #40 on: November 01, 2012, 08:49:03 PM »
From the page's history:

Honestly, I'm surprised it took that long.

Doesn't it hurt them to link here? Kinda glad they did it. More visibility.

Randomvector

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Re: I feel petty, but...
« Reply #41 on: November 02, 2012, 12:43:27 AM »
The IP address that indicated this is a smear campaign is registered to Corning Incorporated. Wonder who in Corning cares that much? Eh, it was petty and I am going to let it lie. Better to include more robust information anyway.

JaguarX

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Re: I feel petty, but...
« Reply #42 on: November 02, 2012, 02:40:31 AM »
The IP address that indicated this is a smear campaign is registered to Corning Incorporated. Wonder who in Corning cares that much? Eh, it was petty and I am going to let it lie. Better to include more robust information anyway.

I heard of them from somewhere. If I'm not mistaken they are some glass and ceramic maker and make stuff for things like navigation sreens and other diplay media like cellphones.

Might not be actually the corporatio that did so but someone on a work computer on wikipedia and edited.

Remember on Wikipedia there are some people that basically go page to page looking for errors, biases (real and fake) and edit stuff as a hobby. That particular person edited a wide range of pages and alot of them within the past few days so it doesnt seem to me an account created specifically looking for that page but someone that is doing their edit rounds and it just so happens to be that page.

I think if that comment stayed a little bit longer than, it would have been easy to tell the other side versus just some random editor.

But the odd thing is that I almost forgot is that he did mention about the "smear" campaign here. I dont see the smear campaign. If it was the old forum I could see that conclusion can be made from an outsider point of view, where every turn seems to be more hate about NCSoft and rightfully so from a gamer standpoint. But the smear has been very minimal here it seems. A little snarky(sarcastic) in some cases, but not smear.  This could mean a few things. It could mean that word is getting out to people and he could be some guy that came and or heard about this effort read the wrong posts and edited. Or it could have been someone that is opposing us. Although I would assume if it was the opposition, they would have tried to wipe all traces of Titan off that page, from everything to the mention of the celebrity support to the removing the cohtitan.com as a reference stating it's not a reliable source.

eabrace

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Re: I feel petty, but...
« Reply #43 on: November 02, 2012, 11:11:52 AM »
Really, it just comes down to the edit having been made without citation from a reliable neutral source of information.  If a proper citation is included that demonstrates that the edit wasn't just made to made NCsoft look bad.
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The Fifth Horseman

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Re: I feel petty, but...
« Reply #44 on: November 02, 2012, 12:07:35 PM »
All of us are angry at NCsoft to a smaller or greater extent, but letting that spill over to editing their Wikipedia page will not get us anything.
Best case scenario, overtly emotionally charged edits will be reverted.
Worst case scenario, the page will be locked so that only administrators will be able to modify it.
Neither of those achieves anything but reduce our credibility and paint us in bad light.
We are better than that.

We don't need to be agressive or biased to hurt NCsoft. Information can be a weapon on its' own - all we have to do is objectively present the known facts.

Try something like this:
Quote
The impending shutdown of City of Heroes marks the closure of a fifth NCsoft-owned MMO in as many years, totalling one third of their former range of MMOs. With that, the company has directly terminated one fourth of known defunct MMO titles. [insert references here]
Whether or not you then use it to write that "this fact led some of City of Heroes' fans to refer to it with the derogatory nickname MMOKiller" is entirely up to you.

I recall there was an official refusal to comment on the subject ( http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/topic,5781.0.html ). That is something we can use.

While we're at this, the list of MMORPGs ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_MMORPGs ) may use a few updates regarding NCSoft's games (Exteel and Auto Assault are missing from the list, CoX shutdown is not even mentioned).
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The end occurred pretty much as we predicted: all servers redlining until midnight... and then no servers to go around.

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JaguarX

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Re: I feel petty, but...
« Reply #45 on: November 02, 2012, 05:30:29 PM »
I personally think the MMOKiller moniker is redundant and not needed for that article  of a neutral Wiki entry. The numbers stated there speaks more of that conclusion more than anything and keeps things simple while getting the point across.

Because if a challenge to the fact that "fans are calling NCsoft MMOkiller" then more thna likey it will have to be clarified by what fans, are we talking about majority of the fans or just a group of fans, do those fans that call MMOKiller speak for the opinions of the entire fan base, is it a bias due to the closing that they got that name, why isnt the other MMO makers that are responsible for the other 3/4 of MMO closings not called MMOKillers, and etc.

With that statement based off fact, the question might be, "citation needed" and then bam, hit them with the source and then not much to dispute when the math is done.

As Fifth mentioned we do not want to ruin this potential jewel of getting the word out about what is going on by coming off as biased or putting information in there that is the pure intent to get back at NCSoft for closing a game or worse. The best way to "hurt" NCSoft is with pure truth. Even if they can come up with a good reason to shut down their past games, the fact that remains is that still they shut down 1/3rd of their game offerings and 1/4th of defunct games. That will hurt them more than anything while at the same time building our credibility. Hit them with undeniable facts and call it a day. The more exposure we get and more we venture outside the gaming realm where players generally sided with the effort and more into the realm of non-gamers and people who have no view either way at first, credibility is important especially to one that dont have millions of dollars of backing like PETA who by definition credibility is shot to hell and even considered a terrorist organization by government entities, like the USDA and others not because of their message, but the acts of a relative few under the PETA banner. Why have they not been closed down? Same reason the KKK is still around.

We must fight the urge to get dirty as we dont want to be labeled as "An organization that is just trying to smear NCSoft." Even with some people that view it as deserved, we dont want to be pegged as th e"go-to site" to join a smear campaign against NCSoft.

We just want to right the wrongs, get more information of why, and let people know the facts.

Forums already get the bad rap as not being reliable sources as is. Lets break that stereotype. The media and websites are used to and expect angry gamers when the game get shut down and expect negative biased information and look upon it for entertainment until it dies down unti lnext game gets shutdown. If we want to change, we have to stick to the facts and show that gamers can be unhappy, but we all not simple emotion people that only can "nerd-rage" when we are angry and incapable of looking at anything with an unbiased view.

Let's surprise them. Let's make is so when they think back and another game gets shutdown and someone says "Dont worry, they'll nerd rage for a few months and then it'll go away." Someone can truthfully reply, "Well there was this one site cohTitan that actually just laid out the facts of what happened and are a credible group. If our game gets shutdown lets contact them to see what steps they took so we dont look act like a bunch of nerd-ragers and end up looking stupid."

Success or fail, lets go out being remembered as Legends of the MMO World!
« Last Edit: November 02, 2012, 11:38:28 PM by JaguarX »

Globetrotter

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Re: I feel petty, but...
« Reply #46 on: November 02, 2012, 11:59:53 PM »


We must fight the urge to get dirty as we dont want to be labeled as "An organization that is just trying to smear NCSoft." Even with some people that view it as deserved, we dont want to be pegged as th e"go-to site" to join a smear campaign against NCSoft.

We just want to right the wrongs, get more information of why, and let people know the facts.

Forums already get the bad rap as not being reliable sources as is. Lets break that stereotype. The media and websites are used to and expect angry gamers when the game get shut down and expect negative biased information and look upon it for entertainment until it dies down unti lnext game gets shutdown. If we want to change, we have to stick to the facts and show that gamers can be unhappy, but we all not simple emotion people that only can "nerd-rage" when we are angry and incapable of looking at anything with an unbiased view.

Let's surprise them. Let's make is so when they think back and another game gets shutdown and someone says "Dont worry, they'll nerd rage for a few months and then it'll go away." Someone can truthfully reply, "Well there was this one site cohTitan that actually just laid out the facts of what happened and are a credible group. If our game gets shutdown lets contact them to see what steps they took so we dont look act like a bunch of nerd-ragers and end up looking stupid."

Success or fail, lets go out being remembered as Legends of the MMO World!

Because we are heroes and this is what we do!
Gutta cavat lapidem, non vi, sed saepe cadendo.

JaguarX

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Re: I feel petty, but...
« Reply #47 on: November 03, 2012, 05:11:47 AM »
Because we are heroes and this is what we do!

precisely.

Since Aug 31st, online gamers from here have joined other gamers from around the world, and have launched the largest campaign in the history of MMOs. Gamers, that word should have new meaning for all of us today. We can't be consumed by our petty differences any more. We will be united in our common interest. Perhaps it's fate that today is the last 30 days, and you will be fighting for our freedom. Not from tyranny, oppression, or persecution, but from virtual annihilation. We're fighting for our right to play, to exist and should we win the day, the 31st of August will no longer be known as the day of COH's DOOOM! announcement, but as the day when COX players declared in one voice, 'We will not go quietly into the night! We will not vanish without a fight! We're going to live on, we're going to survive. We are heroes and this is what we do!'
« Last Edit: November 03, 2012, 05:23:40 AM by JaguarX »

The Fifth Horseman

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Re: I feel petty, but...
« Reply #48 on: November 08, 2012, 01:37:38 PM »
Heads up, some of the recent edits to the page look like whitewashing attempts on behalf of NCSoft.
I'm half a mind to contact the admins' noticeboard and request semi-protection of the page (making it only editable by registered Wikipedia accounts).
We were heroes. We were villains. At the end of the world we all fought as one. It's what we did that defines us.
The end occurred pretty much as we predicted: all servers redlining until midnight... and then no servers to go around.

Somewhere beyond time and space, if you look hard you might find a flash of silver trailing crimson: a lone lost Spartan on his way home.

Knightslayer

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Re: I feel petty, but...
« Reply #49 on: November 08, 2012, 01:43:29 PM »
Heads up, some of the recent edits to the page look like whitewashing attempts on behalf of NCSoft.
I'm half a mind to contact the admins' noticeboard and request semi-protection of the page (making it only editable by registered Wikipedia accounts).
Someone ought to save a copy of it for easy restoration purposes - if that's not the case yet.

The Fifth Horseman

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Re: I feel petty, but...
« Reply #50 on: November 08, 2012, 03:27:51 PM »
Unless a specific revision is deleted by an admin, it remains in the edit log (and different log entries can be compared between to determine what changes have taken place).
We were heroes. We were villains. At the end of the world we all fought as one. It's what we did that defines us.
The end occurred pretty much as we predicted: all servers redlining until midnight... and then no servers to go around.

Somewhere beyond time and space, if you look hard you might find a flash of silver trailing crimson: a lone lost Spartan on his way home.

Colette

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Re: I feel petty, but...
« Reply #51 on: November 08, 2012, 05:29:29 PM »
"We don't need to be aggressive or biased to hurt NCsoft. Information can be a weapon on its own - all we have to do is objectively present the known facts."

"The best way to "hurt" NCSoft is with pure truth."

Fifth is correct. The facts are damning enough to the MMO community without any exaggeration or embroidery.

"...some of the recent edits to the page look like whitewashing attempts on behalf of NCSoft."

I've recently had that same paranoid feeling. Y'know, wouldn't that be in character? Sock-puppeting and trying to deal with the symptoms and negate the consequences instead of owning up to their douchebaggery and changing their actions.

Be nice if we could catch them at it.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2012, 06:05:45 PM by Colette »

SithRose

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Re: I feel petty, but...
« Reply #52 on: November 08, 2012, 09:08:24 PM »
Angels and ministers of grace, defend us. :P

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dwturducken

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Re: I feel petty, but...
« Reply #53 on: November 08, 2012, 09:10:01 PM »
Hamlet, act 1, scene 4.

Nice to see there's nothing wrong with your memory. :)
I wouldn't use the word "replace," but there's no word for "take over for you and make everything better almost immediately," so we just say "replace."

SithRose

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Re: I feel petty, but...
« Reply #54 on: November 08, 2012, 09:13:28 PM »
Nice to see there's nothing wrong with your memory. :)

No doubt about your memory. :)

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The Fifth Horseman

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Re: I feel petty, but...
« Reply #55 on: November 08, 2012, 10:05:16 PM »
"...some of the recent edits to the page look like whitewashing attempts on behalf of NCSoft."

I've recently had that same paranoid feeling. Y'know, wouldn't that be in character? Sock-puppeting and trying to deal with the symptoms and negate the consequences instead of owning up to their douchebaggery and changing their actions.

Be nice if we could catch them at it.
Heh, looks like someone filed a WP:COI report on it already. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Conflict_of_interest/Noticeboard#NCsoft
We were heroes. We were villains. At the end of the world we all fought as one. It's what we did that defines us.
The end occurred pretty much as we predicted: all servers redlining until midnight... and then no servers to go around.

Somewhere beyond time and space, if you look hard you might find a flash of silver trailing crimson: a lone lost Spartan on his way home.

Colette

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Re: I feel petty, but...
« Reply #56 on: November 08, 2012, 11:05:35 PM »
I don't know the exact entry they're complaining about. But "smear" implies a deliberate attempt to slander someone with spoken lies or libel them with written falsehoods. NCSoft has done enough that we don't need to invent bad things to say about 'em.

dwturducken

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Re: I feel petty, but...
« Reply #57 on: November 09, 2012, 12:18:17 AM »
I stand corrected. :)
I wouldn't use the word "replace," but there's no word for "take over for you and make everything better almost immediately," so we just say "replace."

The Fifth Horseman

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Re: I feel petty, but...
« Reply #58 on: November 09, 2012, 01:13:05 AM »
Anyhow, some anonymous troll keeps removing a neutral sentence from the article and replacing it with NCSoft's meaningless collection of buzzwords.

I can't revert the page again today - that is, I could but that would get the page reverted back and me under a 24-hour ban for violating the three revert rule. The only thing I can do is to go through RFC on this, and since most of the suspect edits are coming from anonymous IPs I'd better also go through RFP. Meaning that you guys and girls should register on Wikipedia if you want to make edits to that article in the near future.
We were heroes. We were villains. At the end of the world we all fought as one. It's what we did that defines us.
The end occurred pretty much as we predicted: all servers redlining until midnight... and then no servers to go around.

Somewhere beyond time and space, if you look hard you might find a flash of silver trailing crimson: a lone lost Spartan on his way home.

JaguarX

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Re: I feel petty, but...
« Reply #59 on: November 09, 2012, 04:49:09 AM »
Uhmmmm...someone is going to work on that wiki article.

I think that little annon user guy is the least of the worries.