Author Topic: The Bard is Back!  (Read 40046 times)

avelworldcreator

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 724
  • Missing Worlds Media co-founder/senior developer.
    • Basketcase Software
Re: The Bard is Back!
« Reply #120 on: November 15, 2012, 03:07:33 PM »
Remember too our anger not just due to the shut down.  It's the all out kicking the Paragon Studio crew out the door.  This would be without pay if it wasn't for California law that gave them a buffer. 

There is also the Issue 24 sitting in the test server that we were waiting for. 

They could have set all accounts to VIP so everyone could have a final blast rampaging the Incarnate trials.  People like me that was stuck in F2P misses out.

Also issues of money refunds being hard to get.
That last one could be part of a BBB complaint. :)
Missing World Media primary co-founder, senior developer, UI/UX acting lead, and software toolsmith.

Segev

  • Plan Z: Interim Producer
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,573
Re: The Bard is Back!
« Reply #121 on: November 15, 2012, 03:09:29 PM »
Remember too our anger not just due to the shut down.  It's the all out kicking the Paragon Studio crew out the door.  This would be without pay if it wasn't for California law that gave them a buffer. 
To be fair - and I'm not saying we should lighten up at all because of this - it could be due to that CA law that they so abruptly kicked them out, rather than keeping them on until the game was closed. They had to factor in the period of time they'd have to pay them after firing them, so they may have done so as early and abruptly as they did because they didn't want to pay past Nov. 1. Without those laws, who knows? They might've kept them on until Nov. 1 just to keep them under NDA etc.

There is also the Issue 24 sitting in the test server that we were waiting for. 

They could have set all accounts to VIP so everyone could have a final blast rampaging the Incarnate trials.  People like me that was stuck in F2P misses out.

Also issues of money refunds being hard to get.
There are other "to be fairs..." for these, but these are much more valid complaints. And in any event, we must keep up the pressure.

Rotten Luck

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 766
  • "I'd rather go out a hero than a coward."
Re: The Bard is Back!
« Reply #122 on: November 15, 2012, 03:14:05 PM »
True all have To be Fairs.

True as well each is kindling to our anger over the closing.  My point is that it's not just the closing it's a compounding effect of all these issues adding to each other.
One way or another... Heroes will fly again!

Ammon

  • Team Wildcard
  • Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 132
  • UK marketing guy and City of Heroes addict
Re: The Bard is Back!
« Reply #123 on: November 15, 2012, 03:27:41 PM »
Will NCSoft's terms be actually reasonable for the sale?

That would be what the purpose of keeping up the pressure is: to make them WANT to sell, so they'll take any price they can get.
Exactly as Segev says.

The fact that CoH was still profitable by a healthy amount is why this whole thing of closing it perplexed us all so much.  Its why we know the game still has a future.  But it is also something that means it will not be cheap.  No matter what, I can still tell you that Valve's offer of $3 million plus some profit share was a hideously low offer for a game with revenue of $10 million per year.

Even now, with a huge black eye in publicity, NCsoft may not even consider selling the game for less than 1 year's revenue.  Normally you'd expect the price to be around 2-5 years revenue, so I think realistically, we're still going to be looking for a buyer to be offering at least double what Valve reportedly did.  Even with the game closed, unless they want to wait for it to lose demand and reduce further in value just to make a CoH 2.

So reasonable is still not going to be pocket change.  Valve's offer of $3 million plus was just as unreasonable as NCsoft's valuation of $80 million.  The true value is something I'm not going to make public suggestion of, just in case NCsoft does have people watching, but I think, with keeping the pressure on, we can have the price at below $10 million, which is very reasonable, in my opinion and analysis.

Knightslayer

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 477
    • Monster Game!
Re: The Bard is Back!
« Reply #124 on: November 15, 2012, 03:50:30 PM »
It is unfortunate that NCSoft couldn't simply state this. I mean, I get that they couldn't say it blatantly, but to not even hint at the possibility of selling it off after it closes being more possible is sad, because it made everybody more anxious than they probably had to be. That said, we absolutely must keep up the pressure. Keep it blue side, keep it something we can turn around and make them friends again if they cooperate. The bull, once in the pen, should be patted down and fed.

But the more pressure we keep on them, the more their PR is continuing to take a hit until they get the game into the hands of somebody who will start it up for its players again, the more desperate they will be to entertain offers, and the more reasonable the price might just be.
Well, they DID say on their Facebook to please stop all the hurtful comments and that they would be providing a better service in the future =P (to that guy that got banned).

Knightslayer

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 477
    • Monster Game!
Re: The Bard is Back!
« Reply #125 on: November 15, 2012, 03:52:22 PM »
Hmm. Seems someone is replying just as start this. I wonder if they will make the same points.

Here are some critical questions:
  • What exactly will NCSoft be selling?
  • Does it include the licensing of the game engine? It belongs to Cryptic Studios, not NCSoft
  • Will the buyer be able to rehire enough of the core development team and support staff to get the game running again?
[/b]
  • Will it include existing character and player data? Some serious liabilities with that one!
  • Will NCSoft's terms be actually reasonable for the sale?

None of these are absolute show stoppers, but they should be considered and planned for if we want to save the game.

I can't say too much more because I'm not an impartial observer at the moment, even if I'm a supportive one.
My current wishful thinking/conspiracy theory is that Matt Miller is waiting for that to happen, hence not having a new job yet and staying silent!
(Quite unlikely that I'd be right, but a guy can hope :P)

Minotaur

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 612
Re: The Bard is Back!
« Reply #126 on: November 15, 2012, 04:59:42 PM »
So reasonable is still not going to be pocket change.  Valve's offer of $3 million plus was just as unreasonable as NCsoft's valuation of $80 million.  The true value is something I'm not going to make public suggestion of, just in case NCsoft does have people watching, but I think, with keeping the pressure on, we can have the price at below $10 million, which is very reasonable, in my opinion and analysis.
Do you not think (in the light of subsequent info/rumour) the NCSoft 80 million is consistent with them not wanting to sell unless the amount of money was so astronomically huge they would guarantee covering their butts if anybody sued.

A question for somebody who understand the economics better than me: (and possibly to cater for different use of language across the pond)

Revenue = money taken in regardless of costs ? or is it profit ?

And surely if it's incoming money, how much it is compared to the costs would make some modification to the multiplier to calculate the price.

avelworldcreator

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 724
  • Missing Worlds Media co-founder/senior developer.
    • Basketcase Software
Re: The Bard is Back!
« Reply #127 on: November 15, 2012, 06:09:18 PM »
Do you not think (in the light of subsequent info/rumour) the NCSoft 80 million is consistent with them not wanting to sell unless the amount of money was so astronomically huge they would guarantee covering their butts if anybody sued.

A question for somebody who understand the economics better than me: (and possibly to cater for different use of language across the pond)

Revenue = money taken in regardless of costs ? or is it profit ?

And surely if it's incoming money, how much it is compared to the costs would make some modification to the multiplier to calculate the price.
Revenue is just money taken in.
That's why it's important to a buyer to consider ALL of the issues in a purchase. Other complications could make the buy a sure loser.
Missing World Media primary co-founder, senior developer, UI/UX acting lead, and software toolsmith.

damienray

  • Lieutenant
  • ***
  • Posts: 86
Re: The Bard is Back!
« Reply #128 on: November 15, 2012, 06:59:48 PM »
Yeah, count me as one of the many that have been banned from the game and the forums for requesting a refund.  Just hope my toons can be "unbanned" once we (hopefully) transition over to a new owner.

Colette

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 466
Re: The Bard is Back!
« Reply #129 on: November 15, 2012, 07:20:24 PM »
Keep up the pressure, message received.

Though I for one am considerably mollified if NCSoft has legal entanglements they can't discuss. It's my nature to not think the worst of people. Hopefully, this unexpected hurricane of bad press will teach them an important lesson, though. Be as forthright as you can, to the point of saying, "We're caught in a situation we can't legally discuss," and show consideration for your customers. The accumulation of disservices and callous gestures betrays a most unbecoming and haughty contempt for us.

Fansy, may the muses guide you. Rock on.

dwturducken

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,152
  • Now available in stereo
Tangent alert!
« Reply #130 on: November 15, 2012, 09:31:00 PM »
Anyone else get this in their heads when they read the title of the thread? :)
I wouldn't use the word "replace," but there's no word for "take over for you and make everything better almost immediately," so we just say "replace."

avelworldcreator

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 724
  • Missing Worlds Media co-founder/senior developer.
    • Basketcase Software
Re: Tangent alert!
« Reply #131 on: November 15, 2012, 09:34:57 PM »
Anyone else get this in their heads when they read the title of the thread? :)
I do now!  :o
Missing World Media primary co-founder, senior developer, UI/UX acting lead, and software toolsmith.

Hyperstrike

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 477
  • SaveCoH!
    • So Super It Hurts
Re: The Bard is Back!
« Reply #132 on: November 15, 2012, 10:48:49 PM »
If it turns out after closing that all it will take is money...well, that's not insurmountable.

So long as they're not still asking $80 million for it.

Victoria Victrix

  • Team Wildcard
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,886
  • If you don't try, you have failed.
    • Mercedes Lackey
Re: The Bard is Back!
« Reply #133 on: November 16, 2012, 12:44:53 AM »
I've got this confirmed. 

The asking price for City will drop exponentially from the reported 80 million when it closes.  I have the feeling that the 80 million actually included an exponential amount of padding to deal with those chimerical "legal issues"--after twice losing the Garriott case, I speculate they wanted enough in the bank to pay out without hurting.  Once it's closed, all those issues go away, and the price goes to something reasonable.

Sale will include the IP and code.  The game engine was bought outright from Cryptic when NCSoft bought City (I have this from another impeccable source who was working at Cryptic when the sale happened).

What is NOT known is whether account and character data are going to be preserved.  No one knows this except NCSoft.  Archiving your characters via Sentinel + might prove the only way to restore them--I can only say that one would hope that in the event that character data is deleted, a new owner would see the wisdom of doing a one-time restore for those that have done so, but that will depend on the generosity of a new owner.

I will go down with this ship.  I won't put my hands up in surrender.  There will be no white flag above my door.  I'm in love, and always will be.  Dido

Golden Girl

  • One Liners and Winky Faces
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,242
    • Heroes and Villains
Re: The Bard is Back!
« Reply #134 on: November 16, 2012, 12:49:47 AM »
So what sort of price are we talking here? 10 million? 20 million?

EDIT: Also, does this mean that they're considering selling?
"Heroes and Villains" website - http://www.heroes-and-villains.com
"Heroes and Villains" on Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/HeroesAndVillainsMMORPG
"Heroes and Villains" on Twitter - https://twitter.com/Plan_Z_Studios
"Heroes and Villains" teaser trailer - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnjKqNPfFv8
Artwork - http://goldengirlcoh.deviantart.com

Victoria Victrix

  • Team Wildcard
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,886
  • If you don't try, you have failed.
    • Mercedes Lackey
Re: The Bard is Back!
« Reply #135 on: November 16, 2012, 12:53:57 AM »
So what sort of price are we talking here? 10 million? 20 million?

EDIT: Also, does this mean that they're considering selling?

Price:  Can't tell you.  Stating a number would be too revealing to my source, which I MUST protect.

Your question: My source believes they will.
I will go down with this ship.  I won't put my hands up in surrender.  There will be no white flag above my door.  I'm in love, and always will be.  Dido

Golden Girl

  • One Liners and Winky Faces
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,242
    • Heroes and Villains
Re: The Bard is Back!
« Reply #136 on: November 16, 2012, 12:55:41 AM »
So it's ok to post this info too? :P
"Heroes and Villains" website - http://www.heroes-and-villains.com
"Heroes and Villains" on Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/HeroesAndVillainsMMORPG
"Heroes and Villains" on Twitter - https://twitter.com/Plan_Z_Studios
"Heroes and Villains" teaser trailer - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnjKqNPfFv8
Artwork - http://goldengirlcoh.deviantart.com

Victoria Victrix

  • Team Wildcard
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,886
  • If you don't try, you have failed.
    • Mercedes Lackey
Re: The Bard is Back!
« Reply #137 on: November 16, 2012, 12:58:18 AM »
So it's ok to post this info too? :P

Should be safe enough, just please BOLD the parts where I say I "speculate" "I hope" or "have the feeling."  Those are personal impressions and not confirmed as fact.
I will go down with this ship.  I won't put my hands up in surrender.  There will be no white flag above my door.  I'm in love, and always will be.  Dido

Artillerie

  • Lieutenant
  • ***
  • Posts: 99
Re: The Bard is Back!
« Reply #138 on: November 16, 2012, 01:05:13 AM »
I've got this confirmed. 

The asking price for City will drop exponentially from the reported 80 million when it closes.  I have the feeling that the 80 million actually included an exponential amount of padding to deal with those chimerical "legal issues"--after twice losing the Garriott case, I speculate they wanted enough in the bank to pay out without hurting.  Once it's closed, all those issues go away, and the price goes to something reasonable.

Sale will include the IP and code.  The game engine was bought outright from Cryptic when NCSoft bought City (I have this from another impeccable source who was working at Cryptic when the sale happened).

What is NOT known is whether account and character data are going to be preserved.  No one knows this except NCSoft.  Archiving your characters via Sentinel + might prove the only way to restore them--I can only say that one would hope that in the event that character data is deleted, a new owner would see the wisdom of doing a one-time restore for those that have done so, but that will depend on the generosity of a new owner.

Thank you so much for the information you have been putting out. I understand that it is very difficult for you to say exactly what you want to but it means so much to all of us who are making efforts to keep on going - really appreciate it :)

emu265

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 545
  • Wait, what?
Re: The Bard is Back!
« Reply #139 on: November 16, 2012, 01:10:16 AM »
Price:  Can't tell you.  Stating a number would be too revealing to my source, which I MUST protect.

Your question: My source believes they will.
Thank you as always, Miss Lackey.  I hope the game itself can be saved...  I am curious as to whether or not sale of the game/code will include issue 24.  From what I've seen on Beta, I very much hope it does.