Author Topic: perhaps some of our influence?  (Read 7997 times)

JWBullfrog

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perhaps some of our influence?
« on: November 15, 2012, 04:11:22 PM »
I just found this announcement about a game called Glitch closing down. I understand how their fans feel but I think we might (might) have made it a bit easier for them. Linked below is the shutdown notice from their developers. Please note how it differs from the one we got.
http://www.glitch.com/closing/
 
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Kaiser Tarantula

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Re: perhaps some of our influence?
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2012, 04:16:47 PM »
I played Glitch back when it was in Beta.

I can say, with some confidence, that their shutdown message isn't stated the way it is due to our influence.  Tiny Speck's always been simple and honest with its playerbase; they're as emotionally invested in their game as much as any player.  They're not the kind of dispassionate IP-squatter that NCsoft is.

When they say they're heartbroken over it, I believe 'em.

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« Last Edit: November 15, 2012, 04:25:56 PM by Kaiser Tarantula »

Segev

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Re: perhaps some of our influence?
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2012, 04:36:12 PM »
That's heartbreaking just to read. I now wish I'd heard of and at least given the game a shot while I could have. It sounds, honestly, like a marketing failure more than anything else.

It's a browser-based game? I wonder if they tried making it a Facebook Game, or if they have given any thought to expanding it to a Mobile platform. Browser-based should be able to translate to ap-based, I think.

I'll look into contacting them, if only to offer suggestions they probably already have thought of and rejected on the off chance they haven't thought of an angle on them. This is very sad.

(And, depending on their financials, it's exactly the sort of thing I want to become a wealthy mogul so that I can try to support it and turn it around. It's what Romney made his fortune doing, and there's something admirable about that, to me.)


Edit: For Plan Z and/or a reformed Paragon Studios, though, this might be a boon; their employees are looking for work, and if we can get our funding together...

Minotaur

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Re: perhaps some of our influence?
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2012, 05:19:12 PM »
Wish NCSoft had their refunds policy which seems tremendously generous, would have been $300+ just on points I bought.

Segev

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Re: perhaps some of our influence?
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2012, 06:10:30 PM »
I am actually surprised that no-one has suggested yet that you try to force them to release the source code/server software yet..

I mean, that is what you are trying to do with NCsoft and City of Heroes...
If you read their FAQ, they already said they had considered it, but nobody has the money and time to keep it running as a free and open doohickey.

However, given that you've accused the collective "us" of trying to "force [NCSoft] to release the source code/server software," it's pretty clear you've not really been paying attention. While some calls for that have happened, the primary thing people have been doing is trying to get NCSoft to either continue running the game or to sell it to somebody who will. Both of which are only even vaguely plausible because CoH is making money.

The tragedy of poor Glitch is that it seems NOT to be, and they've not figured out how to make it do so.

avelworldcreator

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Re: perhaps some of our influence?
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2012, 06:27:28 PM »
I too was a beta tester for Glitch. I made some great friends and contacts through them.

I'm surprised I haven't gotten that email myself.  :'(

When I was in the hospital last year the staff and players were there to sustain me.

They have project going on that might work with something connected to Plan Z. I have the personal email of the company founder and president. They are a good bunch of people and creative. If anyone has anything they can reasonable suggest or any kind words, I will attempt to forward them.

If we had a way to save it it would be great, but I think, unlike NCSoft have really considered all their options with their staff and players in mind.The fact that they took the extra step of trying to find employers for their people says much about them.
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TimtheEnchanter

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Re: perhaps some of our influence?
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2012, 06:28:51 PM »
There is no singular clear message, and that what message you get all depends on who you talk to.

With the unicorn activity on the CoH forums as it is now, this is moot, because there is no way to HAVE a singular clear message. Anything that is said will simply be torn apart. Bickering goes back and forth, someone says one single poorly-worded phrase, which then becomes the entire focus of the message. The unicorns run wild with THAT and spread it as fact, and nothing gets anywhere. The only real way to try and counter that, is to waste so much time so as to post more than the unicorns, which NOBODY should have to do in the first place.

And even if the unicorns weren't there, you still have over-excitable people who want a miracle to happen. They see something that means "maybe this will happen" and then they go telling their friends that this IS what is going to happen. And when it doesn't go that way, those people turn around and start whining about SaveCoH spreading lies and deception.

avelworldcreator

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Re: perhaps some of our influence?
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2012, 06:36:15 PM »
TimTheEnchanter is right about the CoH boards. There are some decent people over there grieving, but the unicorns are out in force.

I'm not sure why this topic was brought up in this thread - it is about the closing of another wonderful game by a company who has a much better set of ethics than NCsoft  - but I can understand the sentiments.
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avelworldcreator

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Re: perhaps some of our influence?
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2012, 06:50:56 PM »
To be fair, NCSoft did run a couple of job fairs for the developers as well which helped them secure jobs. Similar to what Bioware did when they laid off a lot of the SWTOR developers as well.
I was unaware of that. Thanks for that correction.

I've already sent a message to Tiny Specks's CEO. Additionally I also released the balance of my remaining funds with them to the company to do with as they will

I have let them know about what is going on over here, or at least gave them enough info that if any of the staff is interest they can begin contact through me.  I wish I could do more.
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chasearcanum

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Re: perhaps some of our influence?
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2012, 06:53:12 PM »
To be fair, NCSoft did run a couple of job fairs for the developers as well which helped them secure jobs. Similar to what Bioware did when they laid off a lot of the SWTOR developers as well.

True. 

While I find your comments like us "forcing" NCSoft to release code, etc as ridiculous hyperbole, you are correct that NCSoft didn't entirely throw those laid off under a bus.  I live in a region frequently hit by layoff, and here, they're generally "have security escort em out of the building carrying a cardboard box of your stuff & hand em directions to the unemployment office."   I don't have enough visibility to know how the Paragon Studios team feels about their experience, but it does appear they did more than the employers I know around my neck of the woods.

Colette

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Re: perhaps some of our influence?
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2012, 06:54:00 PM »
"To be fair, NCSoft did run a couple of job fairs..."

...and also, according to tales I've heard, rousted the devs from their offices like they were criminals. But that's just hear-say and the job fairs are pretty well agreed-upon, so that kinda cancels-out.

My hat is off to the people behind Glitch. Early-on I wrote a thread called "How to End an MMO," and I'd swear they read it. Didn't even know Glitch existed until now, and I vaguely mourn it. Obviously a class act.

As to the CoH boards, whenever you have an unregulated board, the strange people come out to play their weird little GIFT games. I dunno whats up with that guy trying to turn it into a My Little Pony fansite. (No hating on the Ponies, quality writing, Tara Strong rocks, and real men watch Ponies when they're babysitting their best bud's daughter.) But what the heck is that about?

avelworldcreator

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Re: perhaps some of our influence?
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2012, 07:20:18 PM »
Glitch and the people behind it are a class act. They had a phenomenal pool of talent involved and they really enjoyed their work. Everyone, and I mean everyone, including the CEO contributed actively to listening to their players and getting a wonderful, unique, and fun game together. Read up on what the gaming magazines said about it.  The reviews were glowing. And you could easily form friendships with not only the regular players, but the development and administrative staff as well. If I hadn't been so caught up with other needful stuff I'd have been playing more at the end. I had an annual subscription and was about to renew it here soon. I figured it money well spent.
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chasearcanum

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Re: perhaps some of our influence?
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2012, 07:39:40 PM »
Yeah, as others have mentioned, Glitch has always been a bit of a class act.  What we see here is what you'd expect from them, probably not our influence at all.

However, the contrast is helpful here.   Hopefully people will compare/contrast the two shutdown messages- one serving as a positive example and one serving as a lesson in what not to do..

The Fifth Horseman

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Re: perhaps some of our influence?
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2012, 07:58:43 PM »
But if they give it away, then it is *no longer* on their money side to run the game. So what would they have to lose by giving it away? Let another company take up the costs for it. Unless of course, those costs are so high that no one would be interested... *shrugs* Looks to me like they *havent* exhausted all their options though.
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Segev

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Re: perhaps some of our influence?
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2012, 08:04:15 PM »
I would be interested to know what problems with their business model led to it not working. I'd hate to think it was their efforts to be, as a few have rightfully called them, "a class act." I know they feel they've exhausted all options - and their reaction looks more genuine than NCSoft's claim, given what we know about both situations - but I wonder if that's actually true, or if there's something they might've missed.

It could well be; I am certain they're more expert on their market than I. I just wish I, myself, knew, so I could even brainstorm effectively.

avelworldcreator

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Re: perhaps some of our influence?
« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2012, 08:52:44 PM »
I'm personally well connected to these people and my contacts that I gained from them have been instrumental in the development of Kingdom Come Game's professional assets. The CEO and principle founder, Stewart Butterfield was one of the principle founders of Flikr. After he sold that to Yahoo! he used the funds (in the millions of U.S. dollars) to start up Tiny Speck and begin the process of developing Glitch. He has had the support and advice of multiple professionals in the fields that apply.

Here is Mr. Butterfield's Wikipedia profile: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stewart_Butterfield

The original poster provided a link that explained the pertinent details. Glitch was built on cutting edge Flash technology. In fact one of the lead developers was also one of Adobe's original Flash creators and he still has strong contacts with that company. It was a matter of lively discussion on the Glitch forums about the future of continuing to use this for Glitch. The problem was that the company had heavily invested in a browser based platform that did not with the changes in technology and social patterns. Believe me that I find this news heartbreaking. Not just as a player, but as a friend of the people involved. This loss was not due to any incompetence of the staff. If someone who cared about the game had the means to take it off of their hands and nurture it they would be glad to simply give it to them and have said so. They do not want to see it die. They simply are being honest about the situation and letting their people know. Unlike what happened with Paragon Studios, every member of the staff of Tiny Speck would have been involved in this decision and been able to contributing solutions - they were that good a company. And they would have listened to the suggestions of their players. They have given refunds that they have had no obligation to give and done other constructive things for their players and community. The in-game community was one of the tightest and closest I've ever seen. And I'm including the community here in that comparison.

Glitch might be dying but Tiny Speck is still alive. So please, please, whatever they do next show your support.
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ohms

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Re: perhaps some of our influence?
« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2012, 08:57:20 PM »
With hindsight, developing on Flash was a mistake, it locked them out of much of the mobile/tablet market which would have been a good fit for the game.

Edit:

avelworldcreator seems better placed to state the reason than I but I cba to change my post :p

Segev

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Re: perhaps some of our influence?
« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2012, 09:00:40 PM »
Can a mobile ap not be developed with an integrated flash virtual engine?

JWBullfrog

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Re: perhaps some of our influence?
« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2012, 09:08:08 PM »
Glitch might be dying but Tiny Speck is still alive. So please, please, whatever they do next show your support.

And maybe we can devote some of our energy to this very idea. Support those companies that seem to be doing things the right way. I'd never heard of Tiny Speck before this but I am far more likely to keep an eye out for theie future projects. If they put as much care into those as they seemed to here, I think they deserve my support.
 
 
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avelworldcreator

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Re: perhaps some of our influence?
« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2012, 09:11:01 PM »
For those of you who do play, or have played Glitch, my character name is "Fokian Fool".  You may still contact me there via my profile if you are so inclined.
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