Author Topic: Why COH will not get a server emulator.  (Read 62264 times)

Leandro

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 310
Why COH will not get a server emulator.
« on: January 03, 2013, 03:37:38 PM »

damienray

  • Lieutenant
  • ***
  • Posts: 86
Re: Why COH will not get a server emulator.
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2013, 03:57:59 PM »
Even tho I had a basic understanding of the differences, this made it crystal clear to me.  Thank you !
(Now may I have my invite to a compatible server, pretty please with a break-free on top?)
 ;)

Little Green Frog

  • Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 246
  • @Little Green Frog
Re: Why COH will not get a server emulator.
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2013, 04:07:55 PM »
As a non-native speaker, I feel like I am walking on a thin ice here, but I always understood the word emulation not as a process of making a perfect copy or a mirror image, but as an act of imitating something in a manner that is in effect indistinguishable from the original. Sure, some emulators are very precise and thorough, especially those that are trying to mimic hardware, but only because - as you pointed it out yourself - even a little quirk could matter. If only they could get away with being less precise, they probably would.

So, the word emulation fits here perfectly. And, frankly, compatible server sounds weird. ;)

Artillerie

  • Lieutenant
  • ***
  • Posts: 99
Re: Why COH will not get a server emulator.
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2013, 04:08:35 PM »
Thank you for the clarification Leandro, many people here are obviously quite technical but others - myself included - are not. Making the situation clearer for us can only help us to support various schemes in the long run.

Heroette

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 319
  • Penelope Pistol lives forever in my heart.
Re: Why COH will not get a server emulator.
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2013, 04:13:33 PM »
Wow, that was educational.  I did not know the difference (nor did I even know one existed).  I just know when I play a game on the internet, I expect it to work.  So, if there is a compatibility server ever created, I sure would like to know about it.  That is my formal request.  Thank you.

Codewalker

  • Hero of the City
  • Titan Network Admin
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,740
  • Moar Dots!
Re: Why COH will not get a server emulator.
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2013, 04:13:39 PM »

Minotaur

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 612
Re: Why COH will not get a server emulator.
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2013, 04:19:34 PM »
This is true in many areas of IT, non technical people use a term for something which is not the technically correct one, but is understood by similar people. I don't think anybody expected what Leandro called an emulator, much more what he called a compatible server, but to most of us, that is what we understand as an emulator (and indeed it's called an emulator in the non gaming area of IT I used to work in, I made a couple).

Leandro

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 310
Re: Why COH will not get a server emulator.
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2013, 05:03:18 PM »
I always understood the word emulation not as a process of making a perfect copy or a mirror image, but as an act of imitating something in a manner that is in effect indistinguishable from the original.

And that's not what we want. By that definition, we'd be stuck with Issue 24 beta, never advancing the game or adding things to it. No finished Kallisti Wharf, no new powersets, no new costume pieces, no contacts with new story arcs, no Moonbase. Is that what you want? As soon as we start adding things, then you can no longer say it's indistinguishable from the original.

And, frankly, compatible server sounds weird. ;)

What about "community server"? That's my preferred term, actually. It has a nice ring to it.

dwturducken

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,152
  • Now available in stereo
Re: Why COH will not get a server emulator.
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2013, 05:12:28 PM »
I guess the important question is: Is a "community server" legally distinguishable from an emulator, thus making it "safe" to run one?

It's a rhetorical question. I'm assuming the "emulators" that NCSoft has gone after in the past were something more akin to "community servers," anyway. However, it would be interesting to see if there is any legal precedent for the case on technical grounds.
I wouldn't use the word "replace," but there's no word for "take over for you and make everything better almost immediately," so we just say "replace."

Little Green Frog

  • Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 246
  • @Little Green Frog
Re: Why COH will not get a server emulator.
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2013, 05:54:34 PM »
And that's not what we want. By that definition, we'd be stuck with Issue 24 beta, never advancing the game or adding things to it. No finished Kallisti Wharf, no new powersets, no new costume pieces, no contacts with new story arcs, no Moonbase.

Ah, I see where the misconception comes from now. You are mixing business logic with content, while they should be perceived as separate entities. An emulator keeps being an emulator regardless of whether it handles content for Issue 24, Issue 4, or Fan Issue 13 as long as the client connecting to it thinks it is connected to a server. But it's not the original server, hence we call it an emulator. I believe that is the correct and more importantly the intended use of the term emulation in computing.

Is that what you want?

This is beside the point, but since you asked, then yes, of course it is. Or at least I would like to have a choice to run in "classic mode", please. For sentimental reasons. And because fan made issues would be, well, fan made issues. Once upon a time a well crafted fan made content for a game happens, but I see that as a very rare event. No disrespect for you guys. I simply have no idea what are you capable of in terms of writing, map design and so forth.

What about "community server"? That's my preferred term, actually. It has a nice ring to it.

Sounds much better. But it wasn't my intention to meddle with the naming. Whatever choice will be good. I simply wanted to point out that people using the word emulator are actually correct and there is no need to invent anything more technically accurate.

edit: wording
« Last Edit: January 03, 2013, 07:19:13 PM by Little Green Frog »

Starsman

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 286
Re: Why COH will not get a server emulator.
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2013, 06:15:13 PM »
For the sake of the community: please stop the cultural "research" in your attempt to put blame on the game's cancelation.

It's sickening to see the community sink that low. It's worse to see the community does not get it.

I'm signing off and taking a break, blindly hope things change.

dwturducken

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,152
  • Now available in stereo
Re: Why COH will not get a server emulator.
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2013, 06:50:04 PM »
I thought that the efforts here (not the SaveCoH stuff but the technical efforts that started Titan in the first place) had done a lot of that kind of tracking and monitoring. I could be misremembering that, but I thought that Tony or Code had said that shortly after Black Friday.
I wouldn't use the word "replace," but there's no word for "take over for you and make everything better almost immediately," so we just say "replace."

Arachnion

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 642
  • Professional Cynic
Re: Why COH will not get a server emulator.
« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2013, 07:00:28 PM »
I thought that the efforts here (not the SaveCoH stuff but the technical efforts that started Titan in the first place) had done a lot of that kind of tracking and monitoring. I could be misremembering that, but I thought that Tony or Code had said that shortly after Black Friday.

I'm pretty sure the people involved have more than enough data.

I recall someone saying here they were monitoring the last three months of the game.

@OP: Well said, Leandro.

8)
I'm all dressed up with nowhere to go
Walkin' with a dead man over my shoulder

Waiting for an invitation to arrive
Goin' to a party where no one's still alive

houtex

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 933
  • I was the turkey all along! MEE!
Re: Why COH will not get a server emulator.
« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2013, 09:23:44 PM »
<all what Leandro said>

Yeah, that's what I was talking about.  But people call the computer box a 'modem'(!) or 'hard drive' or many other things than a computer all the time where I work.

I... don't know why. 

But yes, what you said, Leandro, definitely, that's what I want.  A local one.  Because, well.. I want it. :)

Good on ya!  :thumbs up:

Mister Bison

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 686
  • *psychotic grin*
Re: Why COH will not get a server emulator.
« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2013, 10:05:11 PM »
In fact, the late CoH servers were images that were running on virtual machines in a cloud of servers. So there is nothing to emulate, or if there is, it will boil down to recoding it.

Based on reference.com, to emulate is to equal or excel others. CoH is protected by copyright. But is Usain Bolt protected by copyright ? Would he be, would besting him in sprint be copying him ? No, because everybody knows what running is. We all can make a robotic duck that quacks like a duck, and flies like a duck. Will it be a duck and then, infringe on Nature's copyright ? Nope ! It's an emulator of a duck !

So what Titan Network is actually plotting is not to do a community server. Neither an emulator. It'll be...


Emulating an Emulator !
Yeeessss....

Codewalker

  • Hero of the City
  • Titan Network Admin
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,740
  • Moar Dots!
Re: Why COH will not get a server emulator.
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2013, 10:12:30 PM »

Starsman

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 286
Re: Why COH will not get a server emulator.
« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2013, 10:20:12 PM »


The third recursive loop seems to have crashed... it only has a blue screen!!!
For the sake of the community: please stop the cultural "research" in your attempt to put blame on the game's cancelation.

It's sickening to see the community sink that low. It's worse to see the community does not get it.

I'm signing off and taking a break, blindly hope things change.

dwturducken

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,152
  • Now available in stereo
Re: Why COH will not get a server emulator.
« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2013, 11:17:23 PM »
Yeah, that's what I was talking about.  But people call the computer box a 'modem'(!) or 'hard drive' or many other things than a computer all the time where I work.

The place I used to work handled computer support for several offices in the metro area. One of our longest-served customers had a problem that sounded like a hard drive issue, which he knew from experience would be better handled at our office, and, since we had recently switched him to a new Dell, the repair was likely to be covered by the warranty, so he said he would just drop the computer off on his way home. (Our office was actually on his way.) What I had forgotten was that his prior computer was an iMac. Guess what he brought in. :)
I wouldn't use the word "replace," but there's no word for "take over for you and make everything better almost immediately," so we just say "replace."

Atlantea

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 877
Re: Why COH will not get a server emulator.
« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2013, 12:34:11 AM »
And that's not what we want. By that definition, we'd be stuck with Issue 24 beta, never advancing the game or adding things to it. No finished Kallisti Wharf, no new powersets, no new costume pieces, no contacts with new story arcs, no Moonbase. Is that what you want? As soon as we start adding things, then you can no longer say it's indistinguishable from the original.

What about "community server"? That's my preferred term, actually. It has a nice ring to it.

The above is a (not so) veiled hint Leandro just tossed out.

Just sayin. :D




Leandro

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 310
Re: Why COH will not get a server emulator.
« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2013, 02:16:14 AM »
The above is a (not so) veiled hint Leandro just tossed out.

It's no longer a hint if you point it out like that, but people on the Multimedia forum know very well that I intend for us to be able to make our own maps, and finish the incomplete bits that the devs left in the i24 Beta client. Their creations deserve to see the light of day as they intended.