Author Topic: Help out SEGS  (Read 28171 times)

BENN

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Help out SEGS
« on: March 03, 2013, 09:14:59 PM »
Listen guys we all appreciate you're working on new projects, but we got a real hope here...help segs out and rebuild the ACTUAL game, it can be done, he has done the hard work now we look to you to help finish the job!

Hope we can get this game back alive!!

 8)

pewlagon

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Re: Help out SEGS
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2013, 09:23:09 PM »
Again, it comes down to legality. People working on the Phoenix Project or Heroes & Villains truly want to stay separate from the emulation project. Reasons for this have already been clearly presented. I wish the SEGS luck, but for me unless I get a TRUE CoH back online I won't risk playing an emulator. NcSoft does shut them down and I won't risk my creations on a potential shut down. Good luck, though, I know there are those that just want to play and wish them no ill will. The risk of mixing Successor Teams with Emulator Teams is not worth it IMO.

Illusionss

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Re: Help out SEGS
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2013, 09:33:55 PM »
...What I'm not understanding is how anyone is going to know exactly who coded what, and when. Does coding bear an indelible stamp on it, so decoding the emulator would have smoking arrows pointed at the people who made it happen? I have seen many statements here that make it seem that this is so.

Is it really true?

Kriiden

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Re: Help out SEGS
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2013, 09:47:55 PM »
...What I'm not understanding is how anyone is going to know exactly who coded what, and when. Does coding bear an indelible stamp on it, so decoding the emulator would have smoking arrows pointed at the people who made it happen? I have seen many statements here that make it seem that this is so.

Is it really true?

I'm no expert, but unless they digitally signed their names on it, or if NCsuck had a way of tracking IP addresses via the code...I kind of doubt it.

Absolute

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Re: Help out SEGS
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2013, 09:51:24 PM »
I won't risk playing an emulator.

The amount of risk in playing it is about the same as torrenting a movie (That the company won't release). If people aren't comfortable with that, then the emulator probably isn't for them.

Is it really true?

No. They would go after where the servers are held. You're right in saying that nobody can know who programmed what. As this isn't a multi-million business, there won't be resources to track every little file sent back and forth and it's status each time. Nobody is spending resources like that to slap the hand of a programmer.
Only SEGS has a real risk here.

JaguarX

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Re: Help out SEGS
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2013, 10:36:47 PM »
I thought it was said that there was no project of this type going on? One minute there is denying that there is a project of this type exist, next minutes there is one, the next, it dotn exist, the next they need help.


I'm all for helping but it seems a little shady and I dont mean the IP and legality of it. Or maybe I'm getting it mixed up with the other types of projects that is not beingdenied nor confirmed but being made but not being made.


What exactly is SEGS trying to do. In standard normal language.


On a side note, I dont torrent movies for the reason as it feel like I'm stealing. Not to mention the potential viruses and other complications that come with it. Seen some people mess their computers up royally messing with that torrent stuff. I just buy the movies legally. 15-20 is nothing and not even worth ripping someone off nor risking my computer because some nutcase computer kid want to be funny and upload a virus here. And that is not speaking from tin foil hat, that is actually seen it happen.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2013, 10:46:00 PM by JaguarX »

nemerle

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Re: Help out SEGS
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2013, 10:41:37 PM »
Quote
I thought it was said that there was no project of this type going on? One minute there is denying that there is a project of this type exist, next minutes there is one, the next, it dotn exist, the next they need help.
Well, the SEGS existed for a pretty long time. Although we've never advertised ourselves much, that's true.

What might be confusing here is that there are two efforts of building a server-look-a-like. SEGS is one, and the other is much more undercover :)


JaguarX

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Re: Help out SEGS
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2013, 10:48:45 PM »
Well, the SEGS existed for a pretty long time. Although we've never advertised ourselves much, that's true.

What might be confusing here is that there are two efforts of building a server-look-a-like. SEGS is one, and the other is much more undercover :)
so server look alike yeah. So is it bootlegging the IP and making it work or what? Note:I'm not saying that bootlegging is in itself is bad, although I may not personally partake, it may be a good thing for the people if they can pull it off and understand the risk that is being made for the player and the creator. 

Illusionss

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Re: Help out SEGS
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2013, 11:26:32 PM »
Since anytime this stuff is mentioned we have several people who immediately show up and start chicken-littleing about legalities, I'd say the "risk" if any is pretty plain.

People are gonna do what they are gonna do. If you want to participate do, if not then don't.

Codewalker

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Re: Help out SEGS
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2013, 12:24:05 AM »
I thought it was said that there was no project of this type going on? One minute there is denying that there is a project of this type exist, next minutes there is one, the next, it dotn exist, the next they need help.

Nobody ever said that. The closest anyone came is when Tony said that The Titan Network is not working on server software and doesn't officially endorse such efforts. We do however continue to publicly acknowledge game client reverse engineering efforts that led to things like Sentinel and Icon existing.

He also mentioned network protocol reverse engineering that could someday be used by such a project, even though you need more than just the protocol for a functioning game server.

It was never said that no one is working on it, and people have been posting links to SEGS since the day of the shutdown announcement, some even on the official COH forums.

Ironwolf

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Re: Help out SEGS
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2013, 09:59:12 AM »
As for the morality of "bootlegging" the CoH world - you can buy movies and play them - you can no longer buy or play CoH.

To me this makes it immoral NOT to return the world that so many used to create characters and worlds of their own. I see it as if NCSoft has the responsibility to sell or enable CoH to exist as the community as a whole could be called a shared work of art. Nothing like it has existed before and may never again.

Lightslinger

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Re: Help out SEGS
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2013, 01:51:47 PM »
As for the morality of "bootlegging" the CoH world - you can buy movies and play them - you can no longer buy or play CoH.

To me this makes it immoral NOT to return the world that so many used to create characters and worlds of their own. I see it as if NCSoft has the responsibility to sell or enable CoH to exist as the community as a whole could be called a shared work of art. Nothing like it has existed before and may never again.

This.

If CoH were still active I would not support a private server in any way. As a matter of fact, I would support NCsoft's right to use their ownership of the IP to shut down those servers because they could threaten the official servers.

However, NCsoft has closed CoH and has reiterated it is not interested in selling. So, because of that I am perfectly fine with supporting and eventually playing on a private server. I would donate real money to help speed the process so long as I knew I was donating to a reputable member of the community who has been working on the private server.

Is it still illegal? Absolutely, but its the only choice we have for getting our game back and that outweighs the risk.

JaguarX

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Re: Help out SEGS
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2013, 04:39:59 PM »
Nobody ever said that. The closest anyone came is when Tony said that The Titan Network is not working on server software and doesn't officially endorse such efforts. We do however continue to publicly acknowledge game client reverse engineering efforts that led to things like Sentinel and Icon existing.

He also mentioned network protocol reverse engineering that could someday be used by such a project, even though you need more than just the protocol for a functioning game server.

It was never said that no one is working on it, and people have been posting links to SEGS since the day of the shutdown announcement, some even on the official COH forums.
I see. Probably just got the information mixed up or something.

So what exactly is SEGS doing? Sounds interesting, sounds viable, sounds serious effort. From what I gather it's a reverse engineering the stuff in order for people to download and play the game again, or is it a personal server of SEGS and people go to him for access, or how would it work? Would it be like playing COX again? I heard they are aiming for COX like it was in i3 or something.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2013, 04:50:35 PM by JaguarX »

Risha

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Re: Help out SEGS
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2013, 12:15:50 AM »
I would play SEGS, and I understand the legality and the risks...and I'm thinking a lot of this is underground, under-the-hat, etc.  I am not a computer wiz, so I can't help in anything other than moral support...and I only hope that if SEGs works, some of us would be clued in...also, can't recall what issue I came in on, could be 3?  But I did not do all of even the basic mishes, so anything would be better than nothing.
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Re: Help out SEGS
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2013, 12:35:08 AM »
I'm no expert, but unless they digitally signed their names on it, or if NCsuck had a way of tracking IP addresses via the code...I kind of doubt it.
Not with code alone and definitely not with the compiled application.
HOWEVER. SEGS has been using a code versioning system ( was it on SourceForge or on Assembla? I forgot... ). Contributions to that would be logged - that's kind of the idea - and constitute a direct equivalent of what you were concerned about.
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The end occurred pretty much as we predicted: all servers redlining until midnight... and then no servers to go around.

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Blue Pulsar

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Re: Help out SEGS
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2013, 12:41:30 AM »
Again, it comes down to legality. People working on the Phoenix Project or Heroes & Villains truly want to stay separate from the emulation project. Reasons for this have already been clearly presented.

The real reasons have not been stated. They are buys making their games that will resemble CoX. They don't want to help a project that may hurt their numbers in the future, nor do they want to put free time and effort into something other than their personal projects. Both of these reasons I understand. However, if a man leaves church on Sunday, goes and murders another man on Monday, the police are not going to automatically arrest everyone in the church. Just because one or two computer wizzes from another project punch keys for an emulator, that doesn't mean that the completely separate project will be automatically doomed.

Quote
I wish the SEGS luck, but for me unless I get a TRUE CoH back online I won't risk playing an emulator. NcSoft does shut them down and I won't risk my creations on a potential shut down. Good luck, though, I know there are those that just want to play and wish them no ill will.

The risk to playing an emulator is little to none. They will shut them down and at worst go after the host server, not the individual players. There is no EULA the emu players sign. There is no way to prove that they were aware of the copyright infringement. That falls on the emu coders and server owners. Quit trying to scare people.

Quote
The risk of mixing Successor Teams with Emulator Teams is not worth it IMO.

Fine, have it your way. The risk of nothing happening is just too much to risk.
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JanessaVR

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Re: Help out SEGS
« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2013, 01:25:58 AM »
Given the overall effectiveness of various agencies in trying to suppress all the file trading sites on the internet, I believe the end of this clip (around 1:40) appropriately expresses my level of terror at NCSoft coming after our private/community servers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqDdrT2-bH4

JaguarX

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Re: Help out SEGS
« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2013, 01:40:56 AM »
Given the overall effectiveness of various agencies in trying to suppress all the file trading sites on the internet, I believe the end of this clip (around 1:40) appropriately expresses my level of terror at NCSoft coming after our private/community servers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqDdrT2-bH4
now that video was funny right there. lol.

I think it's a waste of time and tax payer money to create laws that cannot be or are not going to be enforced.

JaguarX

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Re: Help out SEGS
« Reply #18 on: March 05, 2013, 01:45:54 AM »
However, if a man leaves church on Sunday, goes and murders another man on Monday, the police are not going to automatically arrest everyone in the church.

Depends on the police force.

If they are LAPD, they would just shoot everyone.

If they NYPD, they would pick a random person and beat a confession out of them.

If they are ELPD, they will send them to the Mexican prison until someone confess to supplying the weapons.

If it's Atlanta police, they will just shoot someone that look like the perp and say the case is solved.


I'm just anxious to see it come to fruitation so everyone who want to play it or  willing to play can be happy.

Sajaana

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Re: Help out SEGS
« Reply #19 on: March 05, 2013, 02:34:27 AM »
I see it like this...

City of Villains is mine.  What's on my hard drive is mine.  What's on my shelf is mine.  If it ever was theirs, they have abandoned it to me.  Evidence of this is the fact that they never bothered to come and pick it up, or pay me to store it for them.

And I'll make use of what is mine, just like I'll make use of an old Ford, when Ford no longer makes parts for it.