Author Topic: Joshex's game project  (Read 7029 times)

Joshex

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Joshex's game project
« on: August 03, 2013, 07:50:57 PM »
notice I didn't put this in the city of heroes section of the forums, this has nothing to do with city sadly.

at the same time I'm trying to figure out how to go forwards with my project. I wanted to develop a project for konami, but they havn't replied to me about publishing so I suspect they are some of the types that corporately ignore indie developers like me.

I still want to finish that game but.. if I can't sell the finished project it's hardly worth the effort.

so what do I need to do to get companies attentions?

According to all company's nitty gritty terms of cooperation, I either need to get a bachelors degree in game design from one of thier specified colleges that cost a ton of money and then hope they hire me when I submit my application and compete with everyone else), OR I can do the simpler thing; make and ship 2 game titles for sale.

I choose make 2 game titles (yeah I'm in school for computer science but, I need to get into the business quicker than that, before the indie door closes..)

so, I was thinking of putting up a random game project on indegogo or kickstarter then releasing the final project online for free and Shipping physical copies to stores (for a cheap price to cover S/H and packaging)

bassically before I even start a indiegogo campaign I want to drum up some support. so I'm not waiting 2 months for donations and get none.

The game(S) will be completely original works. And yes I do take Ideas, somewhat.

as for how to go about drumming up support, does anyone here have any helpful suggestions?

thanks.
There is always another way. But it might not work exactly like you may desire.

A wise old rabbit once told me "Never give-up!, Trust your instincts!" granted the advice at the time led me on a tripped-out voyage out of an asteroid belt, but hey it was more impressive than a bunch of rocks and space monkies.

downix

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Re: Joshex's game project
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2013, 08:06:45 PM »
That depends a lot on what kind of game it is. MOBA gets a different kind of attention than a CRPG than an arcade-style shoot-em-up.

Mister Bison

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Re: Joshex's game project
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2013, 11:22:58 PM »
It's a bit selfish, and a bit rude. But do you really think you'll get ideas from people here on the internet, that people wouldn't want to keep for themselves ? Personnally, if I had more than no idea about what publishers want, I'd be out there taking my chances.

But I guess you can still gather what does not interest them. But I'm not very experienced in that department either. Again I'm sorry I can't help you.

But if I can make a guess using what little landscape I'm viewing from here, cheap, enjoyable, portable games have the wind. Especially since they are easy to develop and hence not a very dangerous investment, but I guess they are the least interesting of the bunch. Not everybody can churn out Metal Gear Solid-class ideas. Or you need a very artistic touch to get through.

Anyway, good luck.
Yeeessss....

Joshex

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Re: Joshex's game project
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2013, 05:11:29 AM »
It's a bit selfish, and a bit rude. But do you really think you'll get ideas from people here on the internet, that people wouldn't want to keep for themselves ? Personnally, if I had more than no idea about what publishers want, I'd be out there taking my chances.

But I guess you can still gather what does not interest them. But I'm not very experienced in that department either. Again I'm sorry I can't help you.

But if I can make a guess using what little landscape I'm viewing from here, cheap, enjoyable, portable games have the wind. Especially since they are easy to develop and hence not a very dangerous investment, but I guess they are the least interesting of the bunch. Not everybody can churn out Metal Gear Solid-class ideas. Or you need a very artistic touch to get through.

Anyway, good luck.

I'm going to be taking advantage of the people who can't make games and are always bothering nintendo and such's PR departments with thier 'ideas'

Honestly I was hoping someone here with social media marketing experience would give me some hints to spread the word about what I'll be doing. it really doesn't matter what kind of complexity they ask for or what artistic quality they want, I don't mean to brag but I'm confident now in my skills I litterally already put together a game, it works with no bugs. The only thing is that I never heard back from the publisher so..

it looks like I need some prestige. hence why I need to make a few games to get my name out there (and maybe make a decent profit.)

That depends a lot on what kind of game it is. MOBA gets a different kind of attention than a CRPG than an arcade-style shoot-em-up.
the game type is not decided on yet, though I personally like to make 3D Action Adventure single player types. (it's not as much work as it sounds like if you just learn everything ahead of time heh..)
There is always another way. But it might not work exactly like you may desire.

A wise old rabbit once told me "Never give-up!, Trust your instincts!" granted the advice at the time led me on a tripped-out voyage out of an asteroid belt, but hey it was more impressive than a bunch of rocks and space monkies.

Mantic

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Re: Joshex's game project
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2013, 05:23:10 AM »
You might be surprised, Bison. Some of us are realistic about our prospects.

Here's one what I thought was a pretty good idea I had for a relatively simple game, apparently a decade ago (date on the document here I'm copy/pasting from is April 2, 2003).

Its a 2D almost shmup type game where you play a dragon with free movement in any direction over a looping world map, as well as being able to step between altitudes relative to the ground plane using multiple parallaxing map layers. Air layers might have dynamically populating alpha masked clouds, and smoke (particularly since fire is the other key element). The dragon breathes fire on things and that fire spreads on it's own to any adjacent flammable tile while AI controlled human units try to put it out and fight the player off. Player munches on said human units. It's all about running around like a maniac venting your destructive urges.

Up for grabs to anyone who comes through here. If anyone does anything with it I'd like a copy, of course. If you turn the idea into the next Angry Birds or Tetris, I trust you to be decent enough to look me up and not let me go on living in this hillbilly shack. Otherwise, meh. Here's the original doc:



The Last Dragon
GAME CONCEPT by Robert Satori

    Basic Idea

A little bit of Populous, a little bit of Age of Empires, and a game not like either one of those at all. An arcade game with utterly simple rules: you are a dragon, able to fly around an isometric map setting fires, destroying buildings, eating critters (and humans), and hybernating when things get boring. Of course, the appeal is that it is not just an arcade game like a scrolling shooter where maps are structured with waves of targets and obstacles; rather, the world is a perpetually replenishing ecosystem in which critters multiply and trees grow to fill the wake of your destruction. And you, the dragon, grow fatter and more powerful with age... unless (or until) the humans grow too much themselves and rob you of lifegiving food or fire.



Concept notes:        WORLD BASICS



RESOURCES


Unlike a full-blown strategy game with myriads of units designed to counter and compliment one another on the battlefield, and numerous resources employed to progress up multiple paths of a complex "tech tree," this world is geared to the sole purpose of surviving and destroying the DRAGON menace. There is no fighting among humans, nor aspirations to other goals. For added simplicity, it is not necessary to model a believable set of resources, as the player will not be concerned with managing the human progress; only putting an end to it. So, ultimately the world needs only two resource types: FOOD and LUMBER. Note that both of these can be readily destroyed by the player, and further they can be made useful to the player.

    FOOD
        For the human population food equates directly to the population. N food == N humans. Of course, each unit walking around contributes to a regular degradation of food stores, even into the negative. Similarly, food is strength, growth, and life to the player. But for the player there is no distinction at all between a human and food; all forms can be harvested equally.

    LUMBER
        Trees spawn. Humans can harvest them, and they translate directly to structures and devices (even when the relationship doesn't make sense because the device uses metal or other typical 'resources' in construction). Seemingly, the player would not gain much by destroying trees, especially when FIRE is limited, but that is remedied by the player's need for HEAT (see THE DRAGON section below). Forest fires innately provide the best net result for raising world temperature, since fires spread to more area from a single successful ignition than structural fires -- ignition expense may be significantly less as well; especially when no humans are nearby to combat the ignition.




HUMAN UNITS

Again simplified drastically from the strategy game paradigm, the Human units have only a few basic purposes. Building and Fighting the Dragon are the most basic.

    BUILDERS
        These are the foundation of noncombatant human units. hey will have subclasses, but that may be handled as a state machine variation within the same unit type. Builders harvest both lumber and food (sub-states or types: lumberjack, hunter, gatherer, farmer), construct buildings, and repair damage to both structures and lumber resources.

    FIGHTERS
        Although a simplified linear 'tech tree' will be helpful in categorizing more advanced, expensive and effective sub-types in this category, fighters do just one thing: attack the player. Some subtypes may be geared to defending settlement areas, while others form groups to hunt outside the settlement area.





THE DRAGON

The player. This is a perpetually advancing unit with two basic abilities: eat and destroy. Anything that can't be eaten can be destroyed, and there are direct rewards for doing either of these things.

The dragon's primary desire is to rid the world of humans so that other, less degenerate (and less dangerous) food forms may flourish unhindered. Potentially immortal save for violence, being the Last Dragon is not a terrible concern. The dragon's secondary desire is warmth. Being cold-blooded is only part of that concern (though hibernation instincts are not healthy when dangerous critters abound); heat is the engine for reptilian digestion -- and in turn for production of intestinal gasses, the fuel of DRAGON FIRE. Thus, the warmer the world, the greater the rate of ammunition supply. Truly, dragons are wonderfully self-sufficient creatures, an ecology of perpetual destruction as pure as the stars (and infinitely proud of it).

In terms of resource consumption the dragon is able to increase his store of resources without limit. Food translates directly to 'hit points' and heat (lumber destruction) to dragon fire (using a heuristic based on world temperature above mean 72 degrees fahrenheit per timestep). Although food/hp value is degenerative, as with human units, the amount of loss per timestep is relatively low (and degeneration rate is 0 in hibernation state, though again this is not a good state to be caught in by human hunters).


HIBERNATION

Has two purposes. When hibernating, time is sped up drastically. So the player should be given the option of hibernating at any time when resources are low and there are no humans in the world (boring time). Since stored Dragon Fire will persist without degeneration (and continue to grow so long as world temperature remains above the mean) this could leave the player stronger for facing the next wave of human population, even as world temperature drops during the wait. If attacked, time progression will return to normal, and the Dragon Fire reserve will allow the player to rise quickly to fight, and eat, the attackers.

The other purpose is negative, and not under player control. If the world temperature drops below the mean and Dragon Fire is exhausted, hibernation will  be forced on the player, with little time for preparation and no certainty that it will ever end. Human structures increase world temperature as well, so recovery is a possibility, but if the dragon is located by human hunters and attacked in this state, though time progression again reverts, with no Dragon Fire reserve the player will only be able to watch as humans carve up the comatose avatar (and eventually haul away the carcass to their storehouses as food). 





GAME GOALS

I suppose there should be an ultimate winning condition. But for a start there should be records kept of Dragon survival. How long you can survive; how powerful you can become. These are goals, a kind of score, well suited to an arcade-style game.

However, perhaps the final goal could be an ultimate age of survival. Living to see the end of the world in a glorious blaze of heavenly fire -- the sun expanding to a red giant and obliterating everything; a fitting end for a virtually immortal creature, I think. Perhaps something else.

To reach such a goal, the arcade standard of perpetually more challenging waves of play should be used. In this game the regeneration of resources (trees and food) persists at a fixed rate. In the beginning perhaps humans only spawn fresh again after 1000 game years. And then only 1, then 2, then 3, and so on, per cycle. Given ten cycles, the spawn begins to occur more frequently, after 900, 800, 700, 600 game years, and so on, still increasing in spawn, capping these spawns at a maximum of 100 humans spawned every 100 years (or something that makes sense in the actual system). With resources being consumed quickly such end phases would leave both humans and the dragon in tight straits -- while the dragon begins to have more difficulty generating heat from limited lumber resources  (even if able to eat the humans before they evolve to dangerous forms), humans face starvation quickly without swarming upon those same meager resources like locusts. If the dragon is forced into hibernation by dropping world temperatures, the situation would likely not be rectified before the dragon is slain in his sleep (since humans would not be brought to such a screeching halt, though it may take another spawn or two before resources recover enough to support the human population).


What I just described is a kind of A-Life environment. Not the most complex one, or even  complex at all, since the ecology is artificially altered on a regular basis, the factors of survival are not dependent upon efficiency of the units (except for the player, but that's another matter), and all elements are identical to others of the same type without significant variance. I do not consider this anything near the kind of challenge a legitimate simulation would be; just enough to make it interesting for the dragon.




THINGS I WOULD LIKE TO SEE

    I think of games as foundations that can be built upon. This concept is no different. Ideally this game would be designed in a fairly open-ended fashion, so that the A-Life aspect might be refined by others to a level of detail comparable to strategy games like AoE, with many kinds of units, or many variations of human culture, or simply changed stylistically to fit other themes of human society (cowboys with sixshooters or aliens with rayguns). And as computers become more and more capable, the world might be made larger and larger, until it spans thousands of screens and the hunt for human settlements becomes a new challenge.

    The game map should wrap around (simply removing the RADAR/HUD display common to strategy games will help in changing the feel of flying over an isometric world, but removing the 'edges' in favour of a continuing loop in all directions will make the hunt all the more immersive, I believe). A random map generator is always nice, as well.

    Three or four levels of detail used, allowing the dragon to scout more territory from high altitudes (though individual humans are only visible/edible from the lowest altitude and the highest is partially obscured by a translucent layer of clouds in the style of recent scrolling shooters [this was originally written in 2003, remember]). This is just a stylistic image, though, not really important to the essential game.




ADDITIONAL/DISCARDED IDEAS

    When this concept first dawned on me I envisioned the game progressing through multiple levels of human development. Many successive maps in which humans progress in key stages from tree-swinging primitives to modern-day computer geeks (with interim stages including Roman centurions and Old West gunslingers as well as the Medieval style associated with dragons). This idea came from looking at scrolling shooters, in which such broad stylistic changes through a series of levels is the standard. This notion was discarded with the thought that I would want to work on resources for this game and realizing the volume of unique resources something like that would require. Not happening! But, yes, definitely thought about it. IF ANYONE CARES TO SWIPE THIS IDEA I HOPE THEY WILL DO IT THIS WAY (hint hint).


(snip)



Yeah, I have too many rods in the fire now to be able to work on resources for this. That was then. On some level the idea still interests me; maybe it'll interest someone else. Especially now that things like sprite-based fire simulation can be done with 3D hardware support for cast shadows and particle smoke by the truckload in an essentially 2D game without it being much of a performance hit.




*If anyone realizes something based on this concept, please do not tie it inseparably to Steamworks. I do not do business with Valve, and that would be a bit of a kick in the nuts.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2013, 02:59:11 PM by Mantic »

The Fifth Horseman

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Re: Joshex's game project
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2013, 07:41:09 AM »
Now, before you read the rest of this understand that while I mean good, I don't do "nice" very well.
Quote
so what do I need to do to get companies attentions?
Better credentials and a decent cover letter. As a student, for them you're a nobody. They get requests like that from our kind by the dozen, and in truckloads from complete n00bs who haven't had anything to do with game development in their lives.
so, I was thinking of putting up a random game project on indegogo or kickstarter then releasing the final project online for free and Shipping physical copies to stores (for a cheap price to cover S/H and packaging)
To be blunt, your business plan sucks.
Self-publishing with physical copies... MADNESS.
Nobody's going to buy that when the game is freely available online.
Try selling it on Steam, and/or adopting a F2P model.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2013, 07:46:26 AM by The Fifth Horseman »
We were heroes. We were villains. At the end of the world we all fought as one. It's what we did that defines us.
The end occurred pretty much as we predicted: all servers redlining until midnight... and then no servers to go around.

Somewhere beyond time and space, if you look hard you might find a flash of silver trailing crimson: a lone lost Spartan on his way home.

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Re: Joshex's game project
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2013, 09:40:47 AM »
You might be surprised, Bison. Some of us are realistic about our prospects.

Here's one what I thought was a pretty good idea I had for a relatively simple game, apparently a decade ago (date on the document here I'm copy/pasting from is April 2, 2003).

Its a 2D almost shmup type game where you play a dragon with free movement in any direction over a looping world map, as well as being able to step between altitudes relative to the ground plane using multiple parallaxing map layers. Air layers might have dynamically populating alpha masked clouds, and smoke (particularly since fire is the other key element). The dragon breathes fire on things and that fire spreads on it's own to any adjacent flammable tile while AI controlled human units try to put it out and fight the player off. Player munches on said human units. It's all about running around like a maniac venting your destructive urges.

Sounds like Hoard.
All that I'm after is a life filled with laughter

Mister Bison

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Re: Joshex's game project
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2013, 11:11:00 AM »
You might be surprised, Bison. Some of us are realistic about our prospects.
I don't know what you mean by realistic. I wasn't saying that nobody had any idea, or that nobody had any serious idea (fully-fledged project documents etc...), no, that's not what I was thinking. It's more that if I had any interest in this myself, I'd not give the whole idea to Joshex. Or any critical, magical detail that'd instantly get the interest of a publisher.

I would also concur that you need to make some games yourself first. Even if it's a prototype, if you manage to make the next angry birds (which wouldn't take that long with today's DIY development kits geared toward games and a good amount of dedication), you would win everybody's attention. At least for making small games.

Or, make a small, scripted demo with what you can. Even with stock models from SDKs.
Yeeessss....

Mantic

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Re: Joshex's game project
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2013, 11:36:16 AM »
Sounds like Hoard.

Had me wondering if I'd put the idea out there before. But no. If they did get the idea from me I must have been brief in the description, or they decided to make it their own by changing almost everything.

Thanks for pointing it out, though, because I've obviously gotta try that. :)


(Steamworks exclusive... crap!)


I don't know what you mean by realistic. I wasn't saying that nobody had any idea, or that nobody had any serious idea (fully-fledged project documents etc...), no, that's not what I was thinking.  It's more that if I had any interest in this myself, I'd not give the whole idea to Joshex. Or any critical, magical detail that'd instantly get the interest of a publisher.

And I just gave away a whole game concept to Joshex or anyone who wanders through here. I've other ideas; this is one of the simpler ones (to execute, since it's heavy on simulation for flair, like all the fire, and can be made to look large using mostly procedural methods and a limited palette of resources). Most are unconventional stuff -- even text-based concepts. Much as I do want to do them myself, and do them all my way, most will probably never be realized if I just sit on them waiting for "someday," speaking realistically. I've worked on mods (on the artistic side; no coder me) with people who went on to work in the games industry; the reason I didn't even try to go that way is that I didn't want to uproot and relocate to work in a studio with a bunch of other people. Besides, how many American McGees are there (art guys who get to do their own thing)?

I don't know what Joshex's prospects are. Maybe he'll be the next Matt Dickie. That wouldn't be too bad; the games world needs more quirky indie people like that.


« Last Edit: August 04, 2013, 03:14:21 PM by Mantic »

The Fifth Horseman

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Re: Joshex's game project
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2013, 02:24:05 PM »
Joshex: I won't give you any of my old concepts more or less for the reason that I'd rather work on them alone or with people I know better. What I can give you is a rough mechanic idea.
You're probably familiar with the metroidvania "genre". In most cases those games are designed to be linear by restricting your progression based on powers you obtain during the game.
What if we shake up that model? Start the player out with a bunch of abilities, but restrict their use by limiting how many the player can have equipped during exploration and locations where they can be switched out for different ones. Then during the game the player would discover upgrades that enhance those abilities as well as ones that simply increase the number they can slot at the same time.
Different ability combinations would also allow different movement routes - sometimes the player would be able to return to exploring an area not with a new power but a more suitable selection of the powers they already have.

Have fun with that outline, and if you actually do make something built around it I'd love to hear about it. :)
We were heroes. We were villains. At the end of the world we all fought as one. It's what we did that defines us.
The end occurred pretty much as we predicted: all servers redlining until midnight... and then no servers to go around.

Somewhere beyond time and space, if you look hard you might find a flash of silver trailing crimson: a lone lost Spartan on his way home.

Joshex

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Re: Joshex's game project
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2013, 04:38:10 PM »
Wow some great Ideas!

thanks guys, I love the metroidvania style game play, sadly I've not seen anything 3D and decent in that direction yet from any publisher. I love dragons too I think someone beat me to my former Dragon game idea (saw an add for something similar. but it was probably 2D crap..)

I will take these into account, I've got several ideas that can work with Fifth's gameplay style, the names of which I wont utter lol, anyways sounds like a winning start.

now I've got alot of material, just need to make it and release teaser videos, heh.
There is always another way. But it might not work exactly like you may desire.

A wise old rabbit once told me "Never give-up!, Trust your instincts!" granted the advice at the time led me on a tripped-out voyage out of an asteroid belt, but hey it was more impressive than a bunch of rocks and space monkies.

Shenku

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Re: Joshex's game project
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2013, 05:21:09 PM »
Two things come to mind with what you want to do. First, most publishers don't pay much attention to your ideas for games unless you're a well known name in the industry, especially if you don't have any released titles under your belt, and second, as someone else already pointed out, trying to put physical copies into stores when you're indie doesn't work generally.

Stick to digital distribution, and don't publish to consoles unless you can actually get the backing to afford it. Android and iOS games are easy and cheap to make, and there's virtually no restrictions for indie-publishing PC games, so those would be the 3 markets I suggest you focus on since they're much easier to get into.

Finally, this is the same thing that I'm trying to do right now myself (just finished school for game design, need portfolio material to buff my resume), make lots of games. Simple, complex, doesn't matter, just make a bunch of different games to gain practical experience, even if most are never actually released anywhere. The experience developing them is the most important part. This was pretty much the same advice I heard from one of the guys behind Organ Trail for other indie developers, and it's good advice.

Mantic

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Re: Joshex's game project
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2013, 06:03:33 PM »
I mentioned Matt Dickie because the notion of self-publishing on disc reminded me of his tactics; he had a pretty good system for his self-publishing and promotion. He did digital with fully playable shareware using a basic copy-protection & sales processing service while also selling the games on CD by mail in the US via cafepress. Most people probably just registered the demos, since the files were small, but outside the interwebs he could go around and show off his games on CDs with nice packaging graphics, which probably helped draw a lot more attention to his work  in the real world than just a card with a web address or something.

Plus he was always figuring out angles to draw attention, like the Michael Jackson court case brawling game that he just floated free on the internet in the midst of all that hubbub. His video game that lets players try to beat up Jesus was a whole other kind of weird, but very memorable.


Joshex

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Re: Joshex's game project
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2013, 03:59:38 PM »
most publishers require 2 'shipped titles' and knowing thier terminology of 'shipped title' they probably mean they want a record that a Game Store was shipped a supply of the product for sale.

even if I only ship 1 copy to a butt load of stores at least it will have been shipped lol.

now to get back to work on game making. I have recently been disheartenned with this whole publishing issue and havn't touched my engine for months.

By the way

Finally, this is the same thing that I'm trying to do right now myself (just finished school for game design, need portfolio material to buff my resume), make lots of games.

Collaboration could be a key to success, though I kinda want to be a bit flashy and release a game with a long list of credits with only my name lol (to show it can be done) at this point, more heads means faster progress.

if you're willing to join up I'm sure we can have a game out in no time.

I've got a 'bloopie' title that I might make, and have a project in the workings that /MIGHT/ be published by konami if I can get enogh people interested in it on social media sites to grab konami's attention.
There is always another way. But it might not work exactly like you may desire.

A wise old rabbit once told me "Never give-up!, Trust your instincts!" granted the advice at the time led me on a tripped-out voyage out of an asteroid belt, but hey it was more impressive than a bunch of rocks and space monkies.

The Fifth Horseman

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Re: Joshex's game project
« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2013, 09:41:47 PM »
If that project is a new title for an existing Konami IP, forget it. They are not going to hand any of their existing cash cows to a newcomer who is still an unknown factor.
If that project is a new IP, you don't need Konami for it in the first place. :)
We were heroes. We were villains. At the end of the world we all fought as one. It's what we did that defines us.
The end occurred pretty much as we predicted: all servers redlining until midnight... and then no servers to go around.

Somewhere beyond time and space, if you look hard you might find a flash of silver trailing crimson: a lone lost Spartan on his way home.

Joshex

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Re: Joshex's game project
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2013, 01:40:58 AM »
If that project is a new title for an existing Konami IP, forget it. They are not going to hand any of their existing cash cows to a newcomer who is still an unknown factor.
If that project is a new IP, you don't need Konami for it in the first place. :)

aww.. you know, I'm glad I have sensible people liek you I can count on to give me a third opinion, my subconscious thought that might be the case but I thought if I could get enough support they would look bad not to publish it.

oh well if I have alot of support I could indiegogo or kickstarter it and release it for free afterwards.

but I'm weary on whether or not they could sue if I do that..

alright well looks like I'll have time to work on this tonight. so say i were working on a konami IP in your opinion fifth should I completely stall the project and save it for later? or continue?

if stall, then what would you prefer? Male or female main character? fairy tale, myth or scifi? modern, medieval or futurisitic? Dark or light? E,T, M or AO?

just wondering cause I'm got a long list of projects I have yet to finalize.

if you say male, scifi, futuristic, dark/light mix I will work on the story from which I get my alias. that really needs a book or movie adaptation though, I could do it as a game with a style similar to what you said.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2013, 01:51:44 AM by Joshex »
There is always another way. But it might not work exactly like you may desire.

A wise old rabbit once told me "Never give-up!, Trust your instincts!" granted the advice at the time led me on a tripped-out voyage out of an asteroid belt, but hey it was more impressive than a bunch of rocks and space monkies.

The Fifth Horseman

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Re: Joshex's game project
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2013, 07:06:19 PM »
Quote
I thought if I could get enough support they would look bad not to publish it.
Let me tell you a story about what happened when one group of die-hard fans tried to do that. It's kind of personal, because I was involved in it.

In early 2008 a group named Teardown has released a freeware adaptation of Space Hulk, believing that a certain person at one of the companies formerly involved in developing official adaptations in the 90s had the power to grant them such a permission (and seemed to have done so).
The game launched in a massive wave of popularity despite very little attempts to publicize it - enough to make it to some industry media and briefly DDOS the server Teardown's website was based on. And enough to bring forth the lawyers of Games Workshop LLC, the actual rightholders of the Space Hulk IP.
The game was taken down. We got a lot of publicity over the debacle. Games Workshop got a lot of bad publicity over it too.
Over the following year and a half we have put in a significant amount of work into turning the somewhat simplistic original release into an almost perfect adaptation of the boardgame, revising and updating the content... and contacting Games Workshop, THQ (the then-holders of the exclusive license to produce games based on Space Hulk IP... not that they did much with it apart from one very basic mobile phone title in 2004)  and various specific employees of both in order to get in contact with someone who could grant us a permission to legally release the game.
Both companies stood to lose several hundred - perhaps a few thousand - customers who have been following the events, as well as permamently damage their image with many, many more.
Neither company really stood to lose anything if they cooperateed with us. In fact, we were more than prepared to sign away all rights to our work if it allowed the game to be released.
Guess what? No dice. They. Simply. Didn't. Care.

What we did get was information that we would not have any legal issues from THQ ... if our game did not contain any trace of the Space Hulk IP, its' associated names or imagery.
Three months after that, with somewhat less fanfare, Teardown released a game called Alien Assault. The universe is very different, but the core concept is similar and the setting manages to stand on its own. The mechanics are almost exact (we had to adapt some that did not translate well from the boardgame and cut some that were far too overtly complex). It's not the same, but as close as we could make it without getting sued.

You know something? The players still loved it.
Games Workshop didn't. They tried sending us some heavy handed legal threats the year after we released the game, claiming it still infringed on their IP and accusing us of hosting other content that violated it. Oh yes, and that our use of the term "Marines" infringed on their trademark over "Space Marines". They were very, very unfortunate that I have little tolerance to false accusations - their e-mail was taken apart by sentence, proven invalid in its core assumptions and returned to them in bite sized chunks.
I have to admit I took great satisfaction in informing them they should look into the "Chaos Logo" associated with the works of Michael Moorcock, as it clearly infringes on their registered trademarks. (and if you think he's the villain there then I have a bridge to sell)

So here's the thing: You can't count on publicity pressure to convince the company into allowing you to play with their toys. Sometimes - like with Mega Man X Street Fighter - getting a demo to the right person can make a difference, but you need to check the company's track record for dealing with fan-made titles. If they have a habit of cease & desisting every single one, your chances are slim. If they ignore them... they won't help you get it out but likely won't mind if you release it on your own. Finally, if you see evidence of positive interest in fan products... try reaching them.

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oh well if I have alot of support I could indiegogo or kickstarter it and release it for free afterwards.
but I'm weary on whether or not they could sue if I do that..
They could theoretically sue for copyright infringement just because you produced a fangame (usually it ends on Cease & Desist letters to you and your hosting company). Anything that makes you earn money from a fangame equals profiting from copyright infringement, and these things usually don't stop at C&D.  This almost certainly includes kickstarter and collecting donations with the express purpose of funding the development).

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alright well looks like I'll have time to work on this tonight. so say i were working on a konami IP in your opinion fifth should I completely stall the project and save it for later? or continue?
You also have a third option: Turn it into a homage to or a parody of (or both at once) of a Konami IP. These can be perfectly legal.

As for preferences... work on the project you want to work on. Look at the concepts you produced that are closest to satisfactory by your standard. :)

Me? I'm still trying to figure out where to go with some of my own ideas - Chrome Dawn and Humanity: Optional in particular. Ah well, maybe one day. :)
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Joshex

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Re: Joshex's game project
« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2013, 08:00:46 PM »
Let me tell you a story about what happened when one group of die-hard fans tried to do that. It's kind of personal, because I was involved in it.

In early 2008 a group named Teardown has released a freeware adaptation of Space Hulk, believing that a certain person at one of the companies formerly involved in developing official adaptations in the 90s had the power to grant them such a permission (and seemed to have done so).
The game launched in a massive wave of popularity despite very little attempts to publicize it - enough to make it to some industry media and briefly DDOS the server Teardown's website was based on. And enough to bring forth the lawyers of Games Workshop LLC, the actual rightholders of the Space Hulk IP.
The game was taken down. We got a lot of publicity over the debacle. Games Workshop got a lot of bad publicity over it too.
Over the following year and a half we have put in a significant amount of work into turning the somewhat simplistic original release into an almost perfect adaptation of the boardgame, revising and updating the content... and contacting Games Workshop, THQ (the then-holders of the exclusive license to produce games based on Space Hulk IP... not that they did much with it apart from one very basic mobile phone title in 2004)  and various specific employees of both in order to get in contact with someone who could grant us a permission to legally release the game.
Both companies stood to lose several hundred - perhaps a few thousand - customers who have been following the events, as well as permamently damage their image with many, many more.
Neither company really stood to lose anything if they cooperateed with us. In fact, we were more than prepared to sign away all rights to our work if it allowed the game to be released.
Guess what? No dice. They. Simply. Didn't. Care.

What we did get was information that we would not have any legal issues from THQ ... if our game did not contain any trace of the Space Hulk IP, its' associated names or imagery.
Three months after that, with somewhat less fanfare, Teardown released a game called Alien Assault. The universe is very different, but the core concept is similar and the setting manages to stand on its own. The mechanics are almost exact (we had to adapt some that did not translate well from the boardgame and cut some that were far too overtly complex). It's not the same, but as close as we could make it without getting sued.

You know something? The players still loved it.
Games Workshop didn't. They tried sending us some heavy handed legal threats the year after we released the game, claiming it still infringed on their IP and accusing us of hosting other content that violated it. Oh yes, and that our use of the term "Marines" infringed on their trademark over "Space Marines". They were very, very unfortunate that I have little tolerance to false accusations - their e-mail was taken apart by sentence, proven invalid in its core assumptions and returned to them in bite sized chunks.
I have to admit I took great satisfaction in informing them they should look into the "Chaos Logo" associated with the works of Michael Moorcock, as it clearly infringes on their registered trademarks. (and if you think he's the villain there then I have a bridge to sell)

So here's the thing: You can't count on publicity pressure to convince the company into allowing you to play with their toys. Sometimes - like with Mega Man X Street Fighter - getting a demo to the right person can make a difference, but you need to check the company's track record for dealing with fan-made titles. If they have a habit of cease & desisting every single one, your chances are slim. If they ignore them... they won't help you get it out but likely won't mind if you release it on your own. Finally, if you see evidence of positive interest in fan products... try reaching them.
They could theoretically sue for copyright infringement just because you produced a fangame (usually it ends on Cease & Desist letters to you and your hosting company). Anything that makes you earn money from a fangame equals profiting from copyright infringement, and these things usually don't stop at C&D.  This almost certainly includes kickstarter and collecting donations with the express purpose of funding the development).
You also have a third option: Turn it into a homage to or a parody of (or both at once) of a Konami IP. These can be perfectly legal.

As for preferences... work on the project you want to work on. Look at the concepts you produced that are closest to satisfactory by your standard. :)

Me? I'm still trying to figure out where to go with some of my own ideas - Chrome Dawn and Humanity: Optional in particular. Ah well, maybe one day. :)

thanks for the reply! at this time there isn't much need to salvage the game I was making lol, I learned a trick from a friend about game making, program first and use placeholders. that way you've got your own engine and can slap anything in there. the programming is mostly done, even got my own save file architecture.

It will be a shame to waste the character model though.. oh well. I'll save it for another time when I have a better track record and can contact Konami on better terms.
There is always another way. But it might not work exactly like you may desire.

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Re: Joshex's game project
« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2013, 02:41:29 PM »
Very interesting story Fifth.

However, if I may give something to GW's defense, the depiction of marines in Alien Assault seems really related to their Space Marines termies. But it also sufficiently looks like a japanese clone of that. So I guess it's more of a tribute, than a trademark infringement.
Yeeessss....

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Re: Joshex's game project
« Reply #19 on: August 13, 2013, 05:49:24 AM »
I would give away an idea, several if I had them. I have no interest in developing games, just playing them.

Frankly, ideas are not hard to come by, at least not for me. If I was doing a game, I would try and figure out what kind of story I wanted to tell or what kind of experience I want the player to have and then design around that.

For example, I would like a modern setting game where the story unfolds according to whatever approach the player takes. With true multiple paths of play, leading to possible multiple different endings. The world would probably be smallish, but within that world, nearly everything would be interactive and available. Some items might be useful in one path but not another and some might not be useful at all. Similarly conversation and characters as well.

The plot doesn't have to be heavy handed. It could be something very simple: What ever happened to Jake Olson, that guy I knew in High School. Maybe he moved to India and joined an Ashram, maybe he's a mechanic at dealership, maybe he's a soldier, maybe...but you get the idea.

You could use a survey of some kind at the start of the game to help seed the options for the game based on the player's responses. Different responses lead to different stories in the same locations.

Such a game would feature a level of interactivity unprecedented to date as well true branched story telling. I'm not saying that a game like this would be easy, but it would be impressive as hell. Look how gaga people got over ME3 and it's level of branched story telling is limited by comparison.

People like it when what they do in a game matters.
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