Author Topic: New efforts!  (Read 3112859 times)

Thunder Glove

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #9160 on: August 19, 2014, 01:05:29 PM »
The main thing I don't like about the article is that it makes it sound like (a) Ironwolf is himself leading the team trying to get the game back (rather than just relaying information from the team), and (b) that the team is composed entirely of former players (as opposed to, as I understand it, industry professionals).

It's a bad article, not for the publicity, but because of the assumptions it makes.

Ohioknight

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #9161 on: August 19, 2014, 01:23:33 PM »

Ironwolf, if publicity could be harmful to something good, then PLEASE don't make something public. But that is what you've done, and have been doing for several months, on the game's largest surviving fan site. Once you've let something like this out of the bag, you can no longer control the public's reaction to it--or the press. The only way to preserve secrecy when it's needed is--guess what--keep your trap shut.

Captain, you've kind-of got the cart before the horse here.  Iron Wolf started this thread to try to get the Task Force Hail Mary effort moving again -- and he did so announcing that he would keep everybody in the loop so everybody could get info --

Iron Wolf was jumping up and down yelling -- "HEY!  Wake UP! Just because things have petered out doesn't mean the game is dead forever.  PAY ATTENTION!  Maybe we can still do something -- c'mon people -- WHO CAN HELP ME!"

As a CONSEQUENCE OF THAT and him shouting to the rafters, there is a deal in the works and he was(and is) a conduit for the people working on the deal and asked them "can I continue to keep the community in the loop on the thread I started?" and they apparently said yes.  If there's another version of these events, then people have been remarkably reticent about saying they told Iron Wolf not to talk.  Tony has been another cracked window into the process and all he's said is Iron Wolf sometimes isn't clear about what are his conclusions vs. certain knowledge.  There has been no indication that they wanted this thread shut down.

I'm rather with the people who think folks are overreacting to the Massively article -- this has never been presented as a secret project -- I suspect this is because of terror at what horrors the wider gaming net will unleash now that our footsteps have awakened the demons and attracted their attentions.   Just chill -- It was going to happen sooner or later and wildly unlikely that we would get to an announcement before somebody outside the community noticed.

Iron Wolf didn't "let it out of the bag" it WAS "out of the bag".  The bag was open and it jumped in, so to speak.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2014, 01:36:48 PM by Ohioknight »
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Power Gamer

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #9162 on: August 19, 2014, 01:43:48 PM »
Very correct,Ohioknight. ;)
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AlienOne

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #9163 on: August 19, 2014, 01:47:11 PM »
Yeh, any respectable news service would be laughed at I must say.

"Respectable news service" doesn't exist at this point anymore.

That term can't be used for any news service after the "24 hour news" thing started.
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Tenthyr

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #9164 on: August 19, 2014, 02:46:31 PM »
It's quite funny, really, how when you get every side of an argument, it turns out that nothing was really anyone's fault; a bunch of stuff just happened in a particular way as to be unfavorable. And even funnier is the way that this is a good general description of everything like this. There's rarely maliciousness, only bad circumstance.

Blame is a really dumb word.

BadWolf

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #9165 on: August 19, 2014, 02:50:05 PM »
Iron Wolf didn't "let it out of the bag" it WAS "out of the bag".  The bag was open and it jumped in, so to speak.

Absolutely right. But what I think that the good Captain is trying to say is that it can't be both an open bag that we're all jumping in and simultaneously a huge big super-secret secret that we can't let anyone know about. :) Massively didn't find any information from anyone in this thread that they couldn't have found just by coming to this board on their own and reading it. It's an "open secret", and those are the kind that don't stay secret for long. So nobody should be yelling at anyone for sharing the secret, because it stopped being a secret for all practical purposes the moment this thread started.

The whole "I wouldn't trust Ironwolf with a secret" thing, though, I won't even begin to defend. He's clearly very good at keeping secrets, and has only shared information after confirming with the other parties involved that he can release it. That was going past the line.

Ironwolf

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #9166 on: August 19, 2014, 02:51:03 PM »
If the team asked me to close this thread I would do so in a heartbeat.

To be honest we probably over-reacted slightly to err on the side of safety. The problem is in a deal what causes it to fall apart? We can't know that and so with things brewing nicely - why throw a monkie wrench into things?

I personally have had a LOT of things on my plate from moving to a new house during all this to having my daughter Sunday have an emergency C-secton and a new baby. I have slowed things down to try and step back and get some perspective for myself. Publicity will come like it or not - I said before we have a lot of friends out there and we do.

Let us act above negative feelings and a mob mentality and stay positive - we have more than hope - we have hard work and lots of friends.


AlienOne

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #9167 on: August 19, 2014, 02:55:39 PM »
To be honest we probably over-reacted slightly to err on the side of safety. The problem is in a deal what causes it to fall apart? We can't know that and so with things brewing nicely - why throw a monkie wrench into things?

Yeah, I think the mentality here isn't "y'all shut up!"... It's more like, "OMG, PLEASE EVERYONE HOLD YOUR BREATH!"...Sort of like the feeling of several people standing on thin ice and someone else starts to walk out on the ice saying "Hey, what's going on over here, guys?" and adds that tension of "is this the extra weight that will cause this ice to break?"

Of course, it's not going to be any one person... It's just that we all love this game SO much that we are all very sensitive to being let down again, and all of us are dealing with that in different ways--some less healthy than others. ;)
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Captain Electric

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #9168 on: August 19, 2014, 03:34:06 PM »
Absolutely right. But what I think that the good Captain is trying to say is that it can't be both an open bag that we're all jumping in and simultaneously a huge big super-secret secret that we can't let anyone know about. :) Massively didn't find any information from anyone in this thread that they couldn't have found just by coming to this board on their own and reading it. It's an "open secret", and those are the kind that don't stay secret for long. So nobody should be yelling at anyone for sharing the secret, because it stopped being a secret for all practical purposes the moment this thread started.

That is at the crux of my point, yes--the expectations here have been unrealistic. People are being asked to stay quiet but no one is really staying quiet--you're all getting your updates on the game's largest surviving fan forum. It's crazy to be okay with the huge PR machine that this public thread essentially is, while pointing fingers at each other over other outlets like Facebook--or raking members like Duane over the coals and members of the gaming press (a hand that will later remember if you've bitten it). Justin could have written a more thorough story but that wasn't the only thing that he was raked over the coals for--he was also raked over the coals for writing the story to begin with. For the matter of the story's detail, that's also something that you relinquish control over when you make it public though: the slant by which the various news outlets will cover it. As uncomfortable as I feel being on the unpopular side of the argument, the behavior and denial I read over the last few pages is where I draw the line. I'm a member of this community too and that was not okay.

I realize those who are posting are trying to move us into a more positive headspace now, and that's good. I agree with that. But if some of you can't see the double standard that you've been complicit with, you're bound to repeat it.

The whole "I wouldn't trust Ironwolf with a secret" thing, though, I won't even begin to defend. He's clearly very good at keeping secrets, and has only shared information after confirming with the other parties involved that he can release it. That was going past the line.

I'll say this to Ironwolf directly. You've continued to churn the PR machine here even after it seemed like less of a good idea by your own admittance. If the negotiators are truly fine and good with that--then okay, you truly and sincerely have my apologies. But please bear in mind, the reason for my grievance continues to be the fact that mixed signals regarding the proper handling of your information has caused stress and division among people in the community, when no one but you should ever be held accountable for the publicity. When you let it loose, it's going to sprout wings and fly--that's the nature of the beast. If you haven't released any information prematurely, then I don't see anything wrong with that.

Fleur_uk

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #9169 on: August 19, 2014, 03:35:27 PM »
Well said Ironwolf!  Congrats on your grandbaby! Sorry your daughter had to have an emergancy C-section, :( Hope all is ok?





If the team asked me to close this thread I would do so in a heartbeat.

To be honest we probably over-reacted slightly to err on the side of safety. The problem is in a deal what causes it to fall apart? We can't know that and so with things brewing nicely - why throw a monkie wrench into things?

I personally have had a LOT of things on my plate from moving to a new house during all this to having my daughter Sunday have an emergency C-secton and a new baby. I have slowed things down to try and step back and get some perspective for myself. Publicity will come like it or not - I said before we have a lot of friends out there and we do.

Let us act above negative feelings and a mob mentality and stay positive - we have more than hope - we have hard work and lots of friends.

Golden Girl

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #9170 on: August 19, 2014, 03:49:28 PM »
I will never attack someone for trying to get more information.

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Ironwolf

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #9171 on: August 19, 2014, 04:05:33 PM »
That is at the crux of my point, yes--the expectations here have been unrealistic. People are being asked to stay quiet but no one is really staying quiet--you're all getting your updates on the game's largest surviving fan forum. It's crazy to be okay with the huge PR machine that this public thread essentially is, while pointing fingers at each other over other outlets like Facebook--or raking members like Duane over the coals and members of the gaming press (a hand that will later remember if you've bitten it). Justin could have written a more thorough story but that wasn't the only thing that he was raked over the coals for--he was also raked over the coals for writing the story to begin with. For the matter of the story's detail, that's also something that you relinquish control over when you make it public though: the slant by which the various news outlets will cover it. As uncomfortable as I feel being on the unpopular side of the argument, the behavior and denial I read over the last few pages is where I draw the line. I'm a member of this community too and that was not okay.

I realize those who are posting are trying to move us into a more positive headspace now, and that's good. I agree with that. But if some of you can't see the double standard that you've been complicit with, you're bound to repeat it.

I'll say this to Ironwolf directly. You've continued to churn the PR machine here even after it seemed like less of a good idea by your own admittance. If the negotiators are truly fine and good with that--then okay, you truly and sincerely have my apologies. But please bear in mind, the reason for my grievance continues to be the fact that mixed signals regarding the proper handling of your information has caused stress and division among people in the community, when no one but you should ever be held accountable for the publicity. When you let it loose, it's going to sprout wings and fly--that's the nature of the beast. If you haven't released any information prematurely, then I don't see anything wrong with that.

Things changed as this all evolved. I stepped up in this to save people who need to be working on the game from having to deal wth this. I answer to them and when my own hopes made me read more into things - I immediately owned it.

This is not my real job and I have been trainiing under fire!
« Last Edit: August 19, 2014, 05:23:42 PM by Ironwolf »

Blackstar5

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #9172 on: August 19, 2014, 04:40:45 PM »
Things changed as this all evolved. I stepped up in this to ssave people who need to be working on the game from having to deal wth this. I answer to them and when my own hopes made me read more iinto things - I immediately owned it.

This is not my real job and I have been trainiing under fire!
And you have been doing a great job. I myself have found myself caught up a time or two myself, I remember in July when I had seen a post that  they were one signature away and we would have news any day now.

Ohioknight

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #9173 on: August 19, 2014, 04:53:44 PM »
Justin could have written a more thorough story but that wasn't the only thing that he was raked over the coals for--he was also raked over the coals for writing the story to begin with.

...if some of you can't see the double standard that you've been complicit with, you're bound to repeat it.

I'll say this to Ironwolf directly. You've continued to churn the PR machine here even after it seemed like less of a good idea by your own admittance.


I agree with your core point.  It was entirely appropriate and predictable that Massively would publish this.

But I think you're being a bit too hard on Iron Wolf here who has been managing a remarkably difficult balancing act here between his commitment to keeping this process as open to the community as possible, and acting as a public voice from the Mysterions, while still trying to be careful not to jinx the negotiations. 

Thank you once again for all your efforts in this Iron Wolf -- you are very widely appreciated for your efforts and most appropriately so -- there has been no dispute that without your rallying cry this development would not have happened -- at least not until somebody else did what you did -- one way or another, efforts to buy and run the game will be ongoing now until it is sold and that is an unequivocal win.


Oh yeah, MYSTERIONS -- no acronym

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mrultimate

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #9174 on: August 19, 2014, 05:02:03 PM »
I agree with your core point.  It was entirely appropriate and predictable that Massively would publish this.

But I think you're being a bit too hard on Iron Wolf here who has been managing a remarkably difficult balancing act here between his commitment to keeping this process as open to the community as possible, and acting as a public voice from the Mysterions, while still trying to be careful not to jinx the negotiations. 

Thank you once again for all your efforts in this Iron Wolf -- you are very widely appreciated for your efforts and most appropriately so -- there has been no dispute that without your rallying cry this development would not have happened -- at least not until somebody else did what you did -- one way or another, efforts to buy and run the game will be ongoing now until it is sold and that is an unequivocal win.


Oh yeah, MYSTERIONS -- no acronym

Thanks OhioKnight for saying this. The questioning of Ironwolf's humility and ability to keep a secret were in poor taste IMO. But..........opinions are like pancakes everyone has one.

TonyV

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #9175 on: August 19, 2014, 05:05:15 PM »
But..........opinions are like pancakes everyone has one.

Everyone has a pancake?  ???

AlienOne

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #9176 on: August 19, 2014, 05:06:35 PM »
Everyone has a pancake?  ???

That would be AMAZING.
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mrultimate

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #9177 on: August 19, 2014, 05:08:53 PM »
That would be AMAZING.

My job here is finished!  ;)

Shifter

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #9178 on: August 19, 2014, 05:11:22 PM »
Everyone has a pancake?  ???

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BadWolf

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #9179 on: August 19, 2014, 05:18:29 PM »
Everyone has a pancake?  ???

It's like John Lennon said. "Imagine we had pancakes...it's easy if you try. With butter and some syrup...a stack five pancakes high. Imagine all the people, eating some today..."

Hey, you may say he's a dreamer. But he's a dreamer with pancakes.