Titan Network

More Titan Projects => ParagonWiki => Topic started by: Felderburg on April 19, 2019, 06:40:44 PM

Title: Private Servers?
Post by: Felderburg on April 19, 2019, 06:40:44 PM
Copied from my original post here because I don't want to put effort into writing a new post, and the point is the same - (how) should Paragon Wiki cover private servers?: https://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php?topic=13290.msg231569#msg231569

Paragon Wiki may have some thinking to do...

1. *Should* private servers be covered?

I say yes: Paragon Chat and Icon already are.

2. *How* should they be covered?

Unknown, until things get settled.

The first consideration is how much detail to go into, to cover Titan Network legally / internal policy wise.

Then there's the issue of what happens when people create their own, and there's a dozen different versions of CoH around. I would say some pages to describe them generally, and an overview of options out there, is probably good. Better than trying to track down every version and describe what makes it unique - individual servers can do that themselves.

Also, just make a category, and put it all under that single category. Boom, done.
Title: Re: Private Servers?
Post by: eabrace on April 20, 2019, 02:46:32 AM
There's some internal discussion going on about the general direction we want to take with all of the Titan services and applications.  Paragon Wiki is included in that discussion.

For now, assume we're going to record information and game content that was current up to (and prior to) shutdown.

As far as private servers, it will probably be permissible to mention that they exist and touch on the general concept (perfectly legal to say things like that).  But we won't directly reference any specific information on how to reach specific servers, contact the people that run those servers, or set up your own client.
Title: Re: Private Servers?
Post by: PhiloticKnight on May 08, 2019, 08:21:18 PM
So.... if say we wanted to update badge information for the new SCORE-related servers... that's a no-no right now? How about on Talk pages?
Title: Re: Private Servers?
Post by: Tahquitz on May 08, 2019, 10:28:02 PM
I'll put it this way.  Each server admin can edit Issue 25 content as they see fit.  Then there's those who want to rollback to Issue 24 and then make new content, apart from Issue 25.

With the live game, there was only one source.  Now there's as many changes possible as game operators.
Title: Re: Private Servers?
Post by: PhiloticKnight on May 08, 2019, 11:14:16 PM
How about new page spaces for each server, such as a Homecoming page space, a /coxg page space, a Titan page space (if the team ever gets a public server going, I don't know if y'all are working on that or not), and so on and so on? That way, while they may diverge, they can all have a wiki "home" here, in one central location? Seems to me like the Titan Network, with its history, is in a prime place to help keep the disparate elements of the community together in some way, and if it ends up becoming just a historical record of just the way the game "used to be", then its influence and importance will be... diminished.
Title: Re: Private Servers?
Post by: eabrace on May 08, 2019, 11:41:24 PM
There's actually a different method for that sort of thing that's probably a much better option.  Again:  we're discussing it internally.  Please hold.  :D
Title: Re: Private Servers?
Post by: Felderburg on May 09, 2019, 06:33:13 PM
How about new page spaces for each server, such as a Homecoming page space, a /coxg page space, a Titan page space (if the team ever gets a public server going, I don't know if y'all are working on that or not), and so on and so on?

Let me preface by saying I'm not privy to the internal discussions we're on hold for. The problem with this is that as the amount of private servers multiply, there won't be an easy way to keep track of them - or decide which ones get added to some sort of "private servers here!" page. Should the wiki track every person who says "hey, I've got a server running at home, anyone want to join?" And what about servers that add 100 badges in every zone - do we track every new badge, every new memorial? And what about servers that host objectionable content? Not to mention the current Titan policy of not directing people to servers (or at least doing so obliquely) would make such pages more or less irrelevant - no need for a whole wiki page saying "visit discord for more information."
Title: Re: Private Servers?
Post by: eabrace on May 09, 2019, 10:55:44 PM
Let me preface by saying I'm not privy to the internal discussions we're on hold for.
Really?  I thought you had access to that conversation.  Well, on the plus side, what you said is pretty close.
Title: Re: Private Servers?
Post by: PhiloticKnight on May 09, 2019, 11:49:48 PM
I get not allowing information on how to ACCESS a private server, but I don't see how it would hurt anything to allow information ABOUT what's on the server. If five separate servers are created, and they all have their own separate issues 25, I don't see an issue with allowing there to be a "Homecoming" named pace where they can have their own Issue 25 page, and all the other servers can have an Issue 25 page. I just don't see what's wrong with that.

And admins won't be responsible for dealing with bad information on them, it'd) that'd be up to the community, since it's not CoH "Vanilla" or historical information.
Title: Re: Private Servers?
Post by: Sleepykitty on May 10, 2019, 03:14:30 AM
Really?  I thought you had access to that conversation.  Well, on the plus side, what you said is pretty close.

o.o;; same.. not that its hard to guess the content of said discourse. We're mostly cleaning up the language right now on the main post, you should see the official verdict for the wiki soon.

one way or another though, I will point out that your user namespace can have anything you want on it, as long as it doesn't violate the sites rules of conduct. Within reason of course. >_> pls avoid media loadtime hell.

I get not allowing information on how to ACCESS a private server, but I don't see how it would hurt anything to allow information ABOUT what's on the server. If five separate servers are created, and they all have their own separate issues 25, I don't see an issue with allowing there to be a "Homecoming" named pace where they can have their own Issue 25 page, and all the other servers can have an Issue 25 page. I just don't see what's wrong with that.

And admins won't be responsible for dealing with bad information on them, it'd) that'd be up to the community, since it's not CoH "Vanilla" or historical information.

>_> well, in part, the i25 page is about the actual, started on issue 25 development that had been in progress when the game shut down. The Homecoming i25 version is based on what was included of that, but Leo has been working on and adding to that for years. He's done an amazing job for the most part, but its unofficial 3rd party.

Going forward there's going to be a LOT of 3rd party development. Both in tweaks to powers, possibly new powersets, and definitely lots of new missions ppl will build and make available in content packs. The planning is done for where the wiki will and needs to be next week, next year and five years from now. Don't worry, your back shall be gotten and info shall be retained!
Title: Re: Private Servers?
Post by: Sleepykitty on May 10, 2019, 10:14:59 AM
btw, the policy statement (https://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php?topic=13415.0) is now up
Title: Re: Private Servers?
Post by: Tahquitz on May 10, 2019, 04:18:30 PM
And admins won't be responsible for dealing with bad information on them, it'd) that'd be up to the community, since it's not CoH "Vanilla" or historical information.

Large assumption there.  Even Wikipedia, in a single subject project, community responsibility usually equals a handful of people versus 1,000 filling in wrong info, using hearsay, or vandalizing (mixed in with helpful or good faith edits.) ParagonWiki, it'll be on the shoulders of 2-3 folks for the most part.
Title: Re: Private Servers?
Post by: Felderburg on May 10, 2019, 05:41:37 PM
>_> well, in part, the i25 page is about the actual, started on issue 25 development that had been in progress when the game shut down. The Homecoming i25 version is based on what was included of that, but Leo has been working on and adding to that for years. He's done an amazing job for the most part, but its unofficial 3rd party.

This is my biggest problem with calling what SCoRE did "Issue 25" - it is very emphatically NOT issue 25; it's a bunch of QoL improvements / cash shop removal, and power set tweaks, and playing around with a new archetype. The actual story content of I25, as revealed in the Lore AMA, is nowhere to be found.

I get not allowing information on how to ACCESS a private server, but I don't see how it would hurt anything to allow information ABOUT what's on the server. If five separate servers are created, and they all have their own separate issues 25, I don't see an issue with allowing there to be a "Homecoming" named pace where they can have their own Issue 25 page, and all the other servers can have an Issue 25 page. I just don't see what's wrong with that.

And what if *100* private servers are created? Regardless of how Paragon Wiki would manage to maintain accurate info on which servers exist or are continuously active, what is the cut off for "notability" of a server? Of those 100 servers created, which ones are important enough to be put on the wiki? Suddenly Paragon Wiki is accused of favoritism because it included x and y servers, but not z - even if server z never publicized itself and is run off of someone's laptop.

Additionally, Paragon Wiki has *never* been a place for player-created content. And honestly, that's what changes to the game on private servers are: fan fiction and player creations. Yes, it may be useful to know which server has perma-double XP, or which server has added 1,000 badges to Atlas Park, but I would say that players should be going to each server's home page (or whatever) to find that info out.

Really?  I thought you had access to that conversation.  Well, on the plus side, what you said is pretty close.

Maybe I do? I don't know. I don't pay as much attention to the forums as a whole as well as I used to.
Title: Re: Private Servers?
Post by: Tahquitz on May 10, 2019, 06:51:26 PM
This is my biggest problem with calling what SCoRE did "Issue 25" - it is very emphatically NOT issue 25; it's a bunch of QoL improvements / cash shop removal, and power set tweaks, and playing around with a new archetype. The actual story content of I25, as revealed in the Lore AMA, is nowhere to be found.

Which adds further confusion when Project Ouroboros finishes their Issue 24 server and does a continuity break from the rest as Volume II, Issue 1.  While Issue 25 doesn't have story content, if Vol 2 takes off in popularity and Issue 25+ servers diverge from there as well... We'll have even more fragmentation.  A fork of Paragon Wiki for each service as a jumping off point makes sense... If they want it.  If not, Interwiki linking and keeping their own wiki as light as possible also works out for all involved.

Some see it as making Paragon Wiki less relevant, but I see it as making more servers self reliant while keeping the Live Game Wiki intact as a reference to official Canon.
Title: Re: Private Servers?
Post by: DeProgrammer on May 11, 2019, 02:57:30 AM
Additionally, Paragon Wiki has *never* been a place for player-created content.
Yeah, isn't that what Ouroboros Portal (https://ouroportal.com/wiki/Main_Page) is for?
Title: Re: Private Servers?
Post by: Sleepykitty on May 11, 2019, 09:28:47 AM
Yeah, isn't that what Ouroboros Portal (https://ouroportal.com/wiki/Main_Page) is for?

0.0 its staff! quick! hide the evidence!!

>.> an interesting point that... Ouroboros Portal was founded to record SGs, Characters and personal player stuffs.. so.. that is sorta what Homecoming has on it.. But at the same time, its part of the Titan Network, so right now falls under the same issues on how far we can keep track of things before hearing "Official Word™".
Title: Re: Private Servers?
Post by: WanderingAries on May 17, 2019, 11:33:06 PM
Can we sum it up this way perhaps?

Any attempt to keep This Wiki in line with any/all of the existing/future versions of the game would be like taking every "Choose your own adventure" book, "The Butterfly Effect" movie, etc and attempting to make a single story of them all. If you want to understand how THAT would look, then go research Time Travel and Multi-verse theory. ;)
Title: Re: Private Servers?
Post by: Blondeshell on May 18, 2019, 09:35:27 PM
If you want to understand how THAT would look, then go research Time Travel and Multi-verse theory. ;)

Are we talking about Avengers: Endgame time travel or Back to the Future time travel?  :P
Title: Re: Private Servers?
Post by: Korbian on May 18, 2019, 11:05:43 PM
I was really hoping for Doctor Who time travel.
Title: Re: Private Servers?
Post by: Tahquitz on May 19, 2019, 05:05:26 AM
I was hoping for Futurama. Roswell, Hearing Aide and A-Bomb Time Travel.
Title: Re: Private Servers?
Post by: WanderingAries on May 19, 2019, 10:59:27 PM
I was really hoping for Doctor Who time travel.

Now be honest. were those last two words Really part of the original thought? ;)  Genderbend included. :p
Title: Re: Private Servers?
Post by: Korbian on May 20, 2019, 03:19:12 PM
I'm only after the TARDIS.