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More Titan Projects => ParagonWiki => Topic started by: GuyPerfect on July 16, 2009, 08:36:44 PM
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Once upon a time, I edited the Blaster archetype page and powerset pages to remove the inline references to issue numbers and move all the historical information to its own section or paragraph to get extranneous information out of the main article. Since that time, my efforts have been reverted and I'm ready to enforce a new guideline for the archetype history information.
One thing that ticks me off to unmeasurable extent is the way powersets have (Issue X) in parenthesis after their list in the archetype article. This is nonsense. If we're going to do that, we might as well put (Customizable Weapon), (Color Tintable) and (Varies from Archetype Y) on there as well.
I want the issues that powersets were introduced to be mentioned at the bottom of the archetype articles in a history section; not in the lists of powersets themselves.
Likewise, the powerset pages have issue numbers thrown in mid-sentence when describing the archetypes those sets are available to. "The Cold Domination powerset is available as a secondary set for Corruptors; as of Issue 12, a primary set for Defenders; and, as of Issue 16, a secondary set for Controllers." It's not like that yet, but I can predict the future, and it's also nonsense. There's no reason a couple lines of text can't be added to the end of the overview that state "This powerset was made available to Defenders in Issue 12," and subsequently "This powerset was made available to Controllers in Issue 16."
Having said all that, there are a few things I'd like to see happen to the archetype pages:
History Sections
There should be history sections for anything that happened to change for archetypes and powersets. Was a new powerset introduced or proliferated? History section. Did a power undergo a significant change (like Instant Healing becoming a click power)? History section. Were powers added to the powerset (epic sets in Issue 13)? History section. Keep it all together and out of the main text of the article.
Customization Features
All powerset pages should link to the appropriate section of the Weapon Customization article, where applicable, as well as state whether or not the set can be colorized via Power Customization.
Remove Strategy Guide Info
Oh, whoop. Just checked. Seems this was already done. Strategy guides are now linked to from the archetype pages.
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Anyhow, I'll be going about doing this unless someone gives a really good reason not to. I would also appreciate if my edits aren't reverted while I'm still undertaking the revisions. (-:
If anyone can provide additional history information like when specific ancillaries were introduced or what-not, it'd be appreciated.
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I'm all for this, personally. I really like the idea of moving all historical information on a power set to a Historical Info section of some sort. I think it'll make the rest of the article look cleaner. Too much parenthetical info in one spot looks garbled and disjointed. This seems like a very simple, very clean solution that allows for the information to be retained while making the information being presented easier to follow.
I also like the idea of adding a section for Customizable Features for each set. I think that'll come in quite handy in I16.
Remove Strategy Guide Info
That one had been bothering me for a long time. It annoyed me every time I read "The Dominator as an Archetype is counterintuitive to play, difficult to master, and relies on mechanics and techniques that are not obvious to many styles of player." Counter-intuitive to whom? Difficult to master how? "Hold him, then shred him" is a perfectly legitimate Dominator strategy and it's not all that counter-intuitive or difficult to master. The bottom line here is that the text was opinion made part of an article that should be fact.
Anyway, it was much like a tiny fingerprint on my window that goes unnoticed for months. Once I see it, I can't not see it and eats away at me until I've finally had enough of looking at it. Then I get out the glass cleaner and clean every window in the house just to make sure there aren't any other fingerprints that are waiting to catch my attention. So, I split all of them into their own little pages and marked them as Player Guides material. I felt much better after that. :)
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If you would, could you bust out that Spruce Hammer I gave you all that time ago and browse through all player powers to make sure everything that should go in the historical section is already there? If not, post it here!
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Yeah, I can probably work on that a bit. I think I'll wait until tomorrow to start, though. Got so wrapped up in finishing that list of English/German/French badge names that I haven't eaten dinner yet. :p
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If possible, could we possibly template the archetype pages? I know there are currently only 14 ATs, but it would:
1) Provide consistency.
2) Allow a significant reorganization to happen without re-editting all the pages (I think that is how templates work?)
3) Allow for expansion of ATs (new Epic ATs, etc.)
4) Thinking about Going Rogue, Paragon Studios may decide that 'switched' ATs are known by new names (e.g. Villainous Tanker becomes known as Juggernaut, Heroic Masterminds become known as Taskmasters, etc.). You could easily 'fill in the blanks' with an AT template to create all the new pages.
Perhaps you might even consider adding an infobox (like zones and contacts) with the primary highlights of the AT, if a template is not practical?
Thoughts?
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I'll also try to keep an eye out for anything that might be incorporated into a templated format while I'm going through the AT pages. For an infobox with quick highlights, I could see us putting up a summary of the AT's modifiers (melee damage modifier, ranged damage modifier, buff/debuff modifiers, etc.), base HP at 50, things like that. That wouldn't be very difficult.
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Dinked around a bit today with an infobox for ATs.
Go here. (http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/User:Eabrace/Infobox_AT)
At the moment, it's intentionally bigger than I think we'd need for the articles. The question is, what data do we want to keep and what do we want to throw? Is there anything we want to add (i.e. damage resistance caps)?
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First column of power sets checked. Findings follow:
Arachnos Soldier
Weapon Customization
Archery
Weapon Customization
Assault Rifle
Weapon Customization
Bane Spider Soldier
Weapon Customization
Bane Spider Training
Weapon Customization
Battle Axe
Weapon Customization
Historical Info in Overview and Power Tables
Broad Sword
Weapon Customization
Claws
Weapon Customization
Historical Info in Overview
Cold Domination
Historical Info in Overview and Power Tables
Crab Spider Soldier
none
Crab Spider Training
none
Dark Armor
Historical Info in Overview and Power Tables
Dark Blast
none
Dark Melee
Historical Info in Overview
Dark Miasma
none
Devices
none
Dual Blades
Weapon Customization
Historical Info in Overview
Earth Control
Historical Info in Overview
Electric Armor
Historical Info in Overview and Power Tables
Electrical Blast
Historical Info in Overview
Electrical Melee
Historical Info in Overview and Power Tables
Electricity Assault
Historical Info in Power Tables
Electricity Manipulation
none
Empathy
none
Energy Assault
none
Energy Aura
none
Energy Blast
none
Energy Manipulation
none
Energy Melee
none
Fiery Assault
none
Back to reviewing tech docs. Will hit the next column when I need a break.
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Dinked around a bit today with an infobox for ATs.
Go here. (http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/User:Eabrace/Infobox_AT)
At the moment, it's intentionally bigger than I think we'd need for the articles. The question is, what data do we want to keep and what do we want to throw? Is there anything we want to add (i.e. damage resistance caps)?
Some suggestions/brainstorming...
If XXX (melee) == XXX (range), maybe collapse into XXX or XXX (melee/range). This would save a lot of space. It could be accomplished through a set of three params (XXX_both, XXX_melee, XXX_range) that would require the user to specify how to handle it. Or, it could be handled via the template itself using #if and related parser functions to auto-detect equal values between XXX_melee and XXX_range and collapse accordingly. I tend to think the second option is better, since it'd work automatically.
Maybe break the modifiers up into sub-lists. For example, all the status ones (hold, immob, stun, etc.) could be lumped into "Status Modifiers (at level 50)". It's too much information to have in a single unbroken list without feeling overwhelming (though the previous recommendation may change that some).
Maybe include the Inherent Power, with a link to its article (when such an article exists).
Maybe include info on how many sets are available for the primary, secondary, and ancillary/patron. Just a number, not a full listing.
Might also be nice to include a hero/villain icon (or include some other visual/info cue).
Could also be nice to somehow note Epic sets. Maybe add an "Unlocked by:" line? Right now, the only way to unlock anything is "Get hero to 50" or "Get villain to 50", but who knows what for the future. Alternately, could just give them a special styling or icon somehow.
Some people won't know what those modifiers all mean. Is there an article(s) that can be linked to from the infobox to explain?
Maybe add some information on caps/limits. For example, it'd be nice to realize that Brutes have a 850% damage cap compared to Tankers who cap at 400%. It would only make sense to do this for the limits that vary by archetype (damage, resistance, defense, recovery, regen). With a link to the Limits article, probably.
If length is still a concern, it might be possible to make parts of the Infobox collapsible. I'm not sure I'd recommend that, though.
(I'm not sure ALL of that stuff should be included... just brainstorming ideas. ;) )
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If XXX (melee) == XXX (range), maybe collapse into XXX or XXX (melee/range). This would save a lot of space. It could be accomplished through a set of three params (XXX_both, XXX_melee, XXX_range) that would require the user to specify how to handle it. Or, it could be handled via the template itself using #if and related parser functions to auto-detect equal values between XXX_melee and XXX_range and collapse accordingly. I tend to think the second option is better, since it'd work automatically.
I like the second option better, too. Will have to let that soak in a bit and see if I can come up with something.
I agree there's too much there for one unbroken list. I just thought it would be good to get all of the options on the table on this first pass. I also gave some thought to breaking most (if not all) of the modifiers out into a separate table rather than putting them in the infobox.
I don't know why I didn't think to specify the inherent powers in the box, but that definitely needs to be added.
I pondered putting the number of primary/secondary sets in there for a bit but ended up not doing so. No real reason, just didn't get that in. Will have to put that in to see how it looks.
I had a hero/villain icon in there for a bit and then I started to wonder, "Will we be able to start with any AT at a neutral sort of alignment or possibly even start as an evil Blaster or good Mastermind in Going Rogue?" So I took that out.
Will have to let that the idea of how to denote an epic set ferment for a bit, too, but I like the idea.
I think maybe one or two of the attributes or modifiers might have articles, but I think as part of the big picture we'll want to have something that explains everything in the infobox when it's all said and done. After all, we can give people all kinds of information, but if they don't know what to do with it, it's not very useful.
I was trying to think of some of the caps that I might put in there while I was working up the example, but didn't come up with many. I'd forgotten about the article on limits.
Collapsing an area within an infobox just sounds like something that would root out no-can-dos in Mediawiki - which I'm all for most days, but not right off the bat on this one.
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OK, power set review part 2:
Fiery Aura
Historical Info in Overview
Fire Melee
Historical Info in Overview and Power Tables
Fire Blast
none
Fire Control
none
Fire Manipulation
none
Force Field
none
Fortunata Teamwork
none
Fortunata Training
none
Gravity Control
none
Ice Armor
Historical Info in Overview
Ice Blast
Historical Info in Overview
Ice Control
none
Ice Melee
Historical Info in Overview
Icy Assault
none
Illusion Control
none
Inherent Powers
Historical Info in Defiance
Historical Info in Vigilance
Invulnerability
none
Katana
Weapon Customization
Kinetics
none
Luminous Aura
none
Luminous Blast
none
Martial Arts
none
Mental Manipulation
Historical Info in Overview
Mercenaries
Weapon Customization
Mind Control
none
Necromancy
none
Night Widow Training
none
Ninja Blade
Weapon Customization
Ninjas
Weapon Customization
Ninjitsu
none
Origin Powers
Historical Info in Overview
Pain Domination
Historical Info in Overview
Plant Control
Historical Info in Overview
Part 3 to come later.
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Infobox AT:
Melee and ranged stuff could go in two columns, it'd make the box wider but it'd shorten it down by a metric butt-ton.
Modifiers (at level 50)
nbsp; / melee / ranged
Damage / 55.610 / 62.562
Defense Buff / 0.070 / 0.065
Damage Buff / 0.125 / 0.125
etc etc etc
EDIT: example:
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/User:Aggelakis/ATInfobox (http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/User:Aggelakis/ATInfobox)
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Findings on the rest of the Primary/Secondary sets.
Poison
none
Psionic Assault
none
Psychic Blast
Historical Info in Overview
Radiation Blast
none
Radiation Emission
none
Regeneration
none
Robotics
Weapon customization
Shield Defense
Historical Info in Overview
Sonic Attack
none
Sonic Resonance
none
Spines
none
Stone Armor
none
Stone Melee
none
Storm Summoning
Historical Info in Overview and Power Tables
Super Reflexes
Historical Info in Overview and Power Tables
Super Strength
none
Teamwork
none
Thermal Radiation
Historical Info in Overview
Thorny Assault
none
Thugs
Weapon Customization
Training and Gadgets
none
Traps
none
Trick Arrow
Weapon Customization
Umbral Aura
none
Umbral Blast
none
War Mace
Weapon Customization
Historical Info in Overview and Power Tables
Widow Teamwork
none
Widow Training
none
Willpower
Historical Info in Overview
Also:
Temporary Powers
none
Next up: Pool Powers
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Luminous Aura and Umbral Aura have had significant changes to powers that I think merit entries in historical sections.
1) The Void Hunter Rifle, while not specifically a Kheld power, had its extra damage type changed to Negative Energy a while back (don't remember exactly when), which makes the Energy/Negative shield for Khelds more effective in resisting it.
2) White Dwarf and Black Dwarf were modified (again, can't remember when) to be usable from under status effects, which made Kheldian survivability and reliance on multiple forms quite a bit more substantial than it was before.
EDIT:
Same for Invulnerability and Regeneration. Unyielding (Stance) has been through a few changes; first being a self immobilize, then having a self defense debuff, and now just a mez-protect power. Instant Healing is a click power that used to be a toggle.
EDIT 2:
Rooted used to be a self immobilize as well, and the auto powers from Invulnerability got debuff resistances... I'm gonna need to take a look through the Issue logs to put time stamps on all of these.
EDIT 3:
Mastermind upgrade powers used to only affect one Henchman at a time.
Sorry. I'm getting ready to go to work and keep remembering things. (-:
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Luminous Aura and Umbral Aura have had significant changes to powers that I think merit entries in historical sections.
Agreed. I just didn't see any references to those changes as I scanned the articles.
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OK, back out of the dark, deep pit that is documentation proofreading and revising...
Ancillary Power Sets:
Arctic Mastery:
none
Body Mastery:
none
Cold Mastery:
none
Dark Mastery:
none
Darkness Mastery:
none
Earth Mastery:
none
Electrical Mastery:
Historical Info in Overview
Electricity Mastery:
none
Energy Mastery:
none
Fire Mastery:
none
Flame Mastery:
Historical Info in Overview
Force Mastery:
none
Ice Mastery:
none
Munitions Mastery:
will have to double-check, but I think you're able to customize the rifle for Sleep Grenade and LRM.
Power Mastery:
none
Primal Forces Mastery:
none
Psionic Mastery:
none
Psychic Mastery:
none
Pyre Mastery:
none
Stone Mastery:
none
Weapon Mastery:
none
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Patron Power Pools:
Leviathan Mastery:
none
Mace Mastery:
don't recall off the top of my head if this allows weapon customization or not
Mu Mastery:
none
Soul Mastery:
none
Power Pools:
Concealment:
none
Fighting:
none
Fitness:
none
Flight:
none
Leadership:
none
Leaping:
none
Medicine:
none
Presence:
none
Speed:
none
Teleportation:
none
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Mace Mastery has the same weapon options as Bane Spider Soldier, and the two sets don't require re-draw when using powers between them. Players with both can only customize their mace once. Same thing for Assault Rifle and Munitions Mastery.
Most of the epic sets got additional powers in Issue 13, which would go into a historical section.
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FYI, splitting discussion about AT Infoboxes into a separate thread here (http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/topic,2515.0.html).