Titan Network
Graveyard => Save Paragon Retirees => Save Paragon City! => Topic started by: Turjan on October 05, 2012, 07:04:54 PM
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That's what the initial press release about our beloved game's closure said - "In a realignment of company focus and publishing support, NCsoft has made the decision to close Paragon Studios."
As I was reading TonyV's "Response to NCSoft" thread, and his post about a change of tactics and emphasis on PR, it got me to thinking again about that initial press release statement, and how it might come back to haunt NCSoft...
There's a thread at the CoH forum about Fox News. Buried within it are some interesting perceptions of positive and negative PR, but alas the whole thread has degenerated into political mudslinging, so it's hard to pick through it. Nevertheless, with the idea of "a realignment of company focus" still in my head, I added a post...which has already started to become buried under more political mud :roll:
Anyway, the gist of what I said was that if the OP of that thread wanted to avoid any of the "gamer" stereotypes a media group like Fox may try to spin, they'd have to spin the story themselves first.
And the angle that occurred to me was a simple one :-
NCSoft want to replace this -
(https://i.imgur.com/q5cX8.jpg)
- with this -
(https://i.imgur.com/80RcX.jpg)
As I said in my post there, I don't need to explain how Fox would probably react to the notion of closing a wholesome, family-friendly game about patriotic superheroes and replacing it with a game they'd probably regard as little more than softcore pornography... ;)
I've captioned a couple of ingame graphic images to further emphasise the point :-
(https://i.imgur.com/wreWf.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/3aU9P.jpg)
Needless to say, this...is negative PR :o
Even with only the quoted captions on, and the observations at the bottom (no pun intended...) removed from these images, the association remains. Because it's true - NCSoft are closing one game and launching another in its place. All these pictures are doing is showing an example of the former contrasted with the latter.
Is that spin?
Well I really couldn't say - I'm an artist not a journalist ;)
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...What were we talking about again...?
Sorry! It had to be done! And yes, I could see that being negative PR too.
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That is a *fascinating* approach to take.
It's also one that COULD be effective if taken in the right direction.
It could also backfire, badly. Bear in mind that COH also has COV, which encourages people to go out and actively be mean, nasty, evil bad guys. And has all kinds of "Bizarre evil cults which will corrupt our children!" in it. (Circle of Thorns, Banished Pantheon...Freakshow...ALL of Dark Astoria...)
I'm not certain that I'd trust Fox News not to just throw a negative spin on all of it. Bear in mind that I'm extremely cynical when it comes to dealing with right wing wacko fundamentalists, which happens to coincide with a not-insignificant portion of Fox's viewers. It's something that does have potential with a carefully chosen audience, though.
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And there is also the fact that you can find some scantly clad ladies in CoH too.
Swan anyone?
Though there is obviously a difference between one signature character and err... pretty much all of the B&S girls I guess?
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Someone posted screenshots on the offoicial forums of characters from BS that seemed to be designed to appeal to the Clockwork King types - that could be a good angle to focus on.
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That is a *fascinating* approach to take.
It's also one that COULD be effective if taken in the right direction.
It could also backfire, badly. Bear in mind that COH also has COV, which encourages people to go out and actively be mean, nasty, evil bad guys. And has all kinds of "Bizarre evil cults which will corrupt our children!" in it. (Circle of Thorns, Banished Pantheon...Freakshow...ALL of Dark Astoria...)
I'm not certain that I'd trust Fox News not to just throw a negative spin on all of it. Bear in mind that I'm extremely cynical when it comes to dealing with right wing wacko fundamentalists, which happens to coincide with a not-insignificant portion of Fox's viewers. It's something that does have potential with a carefully chosen audience, though.
while the villain side of things did have you go out and beat stuff up, it really didnt feel much different from the heroside of the game except for visuals of the rogue islands
heroside you are still beating up all of those cult type enemy groups that you mention
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True indeed, both red and blue side you have cults and the potential for female characters to wear skimpy togs. You also have Mayhem missions redside, robbing banks etc etc. But blueside you have Old Glory (as I believe them yankee types call their flag ;) ) flying atop of Paragon City Hall and endless stories of sacrifice and heroism in the fight against evil - including the game's iconic representation of American heroes, Statesman himself.
But when you compare CoH to a great many "goddamn video games that corrupt kids!" like the GTA series, you see comicbook differences - cars never knock anyone down for instance, and heroes never kill anyone, they "defeat" them or "arrest" them, and the bad guys always return by the next issue. Anyone who culturally sneers at CoH is also sneering at all comicbook heroes, from Superman through to Captain America.
And while it's true that women have had a...chequered history in comicbooks (e.g. Wonder Woman with her whip and penchant for being tied up all the time), there's simply no comparison between western comicbooks and the near-grotesque objectification of women typically seen in Korean games like Blade and Soul.
Yes, there's no absolute way to determine how any given media entity will choose to spin a story, but in the modern fast paced world of hi-tech, a picture does indeed speak a thousand words, and superficial visual processing is the order of the day.
CoH has Heroes and it has Villains, but the heroes do always win the day, and the villains do always say "Curse you, I'll be back!". It's oldschool, it's traditional...and it doesn't feature bizarrely sexualised children wandering around giggling and flashing their panties.
There is a risk that contasting the one against the other might not work - but the graphics do rather speak quite loudly I'd say.
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(https://i.imgur.com/80RcX.jpg)
<snip>
(https://i.imgur.com/3aU9P.jpg)
The purely phallic imagery in the first photo (the rocks beside her face, the waterfall from the rocks pointed right at her, etc) and the sexualization of both characters is ridiculously over the top and frankly borders on pornographic. My eldest daughter has her own CoH account (she always plays supervised tyvm) and my other children are getting to the point where I would allow them limited access, but I will not let either of my daughters or my son anywhere near these two games.
With the rampant problems we seem to have in the world right now of people over-sexualizing and exploiting children, I refuse to let my own children participate in a game where the company has "re-aligned it's focus" to include overtly exploitative images of very young women that border on pedophilia.
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I say it's brilliant.
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This is a good direction to take things. And SithRose, as one of those "right-wing fundamentalist wackos," I assure you that we're really not anything more than patriotic, wholesome-values-loving people with a great respect and love for our fellow man.
More to the point, Fox News had more viewership than any other major network during the debates. If we're GOING to get the word out, we can't be picky about who hears it. I am as willing to trust Fox News as I am MSNBC to take a story handed to them about a community getting together to save their game and tell it in a feel-good wholesome manner. (MSNBC, I expect it to be "little guys who play the game v. evil megacorp," while Fox I expect would take a more "look at this wholesome community and all the good they do; is there nothing that can be done to preserve their game?" approach.)
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Really, it'd only take one slow news day and the right person to see a picture of Statesman with the appropriate context...
Good grief...you know what? I hadn't even noticed the phallic imagery!
The sword in the second picture draws the eyes so elegantly into the crack of her butt.
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Their website lists it as "M".
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Their website lists it as "M".
Question is, did it earn that rating from the violence? Or from the T-n-A so blatantly shoved in our face? I like to look at sexy ladies as much as the next guy, but B&S just...wow. Geez.
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Question is, did it earn that rating from the violence? Or from the T-n-A so blatantly shoved in our face? I like to look at sexy ladies as much as the next guy, but B&S just...wow. Geez.
Eh, it isn't anything THAT new for an Asian game... did you ever try ArchLord or Sword of the New World (Granada Espada or whatever the alternate name was?).
The graphics obviously weren't as great as B&S' will be, but the female characters had similar curves and outfits.
Oh, and to name an example from NCSoft itself, Lineage 2's Dark Elves - with their almost dominatrix leather outfits. (not sure how they looked in game, as Lineage 2 never held my attention long enough... but oh boy, when it comes to the artwork).
NCSoft isn't really doing anything new here, as for "phallic" symbols - my character is currently standing near those water squirting "pipe" looking fountains inside the Giza... you can find those everywhere as long as you're looking for them.
Judging from some of the tones it sounds like this is more of a personal crusade. (or just plain dislike of NCSoft, now THAT I can understand...)
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NCSoft isn't really doing anything new here, as for "phallic" symbols - my character is currently standing near those water squirting "pipe" looking fountains inside the Giza... you can find those everywhere as long as you're looking for them.
Judging from some of the tones it sounds like this is more of a personal crusade. (or just plain dislike of NCSoft, now THAT I can understand...)
Ah no indeed, there's no crusade - unless you count trying to save CoH as a crusade of course! The motivation behind my thought was one of TIMING - the announcement about "introducing western gamers to asian martial arts fantasy" came out just after the announcement of the closure of CoH. This allows for the obvious connection to be made that the one is replacing the other.
Not 'was intended' to replace the other you'll note - just that the timing of the announcement gives that impression.
Indeed, as you say you can find sexual symbols anywhere if you choose to look...but you must remember that NCSoft chose artist Hyung-Tae Kim specifically for his artistic style which, as you can see, is even more distorted than the usual examples of Korean "manhwa" (sort of Korean manga) we tend to see. While I was reading up on the fellow in question, I came across a rather amusing feminist blogger's article about him from Feb 2011. She describes it as NSFW in the title, but realistically there's nothing that much worse there than you can see in the above 2 illustrations, should you choose to check it out. I particularly liked her use of the phrase LEMON BOOBS ;D -
>Industry artist fail: Hyung Tae Kim (so VERY VERY nsfw!) (http://gomakemeasandwich.wordpress.com/2011/02/11/industry-artist-fail-hyung-tae-kim-so-very-very-nsfw/)
The thing is, in a field where artists are known for exaggerating and distorting the female form, he is known for being at the extreme end of that scale, and NCSoft hired him specifically for that style.
Anyway, all that aside, the purpose here really is about the timing of B&S's western launch announcement. It's just convenient for us that the artwork in Blade and Soul suits our purpose as a contrast with the "heroic" western visual theme of of CoH.
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This is a great idea, and I would recommend submitting it, along with our plight, to CBS Sunday Morning. They sometimes do quirky spin pieces. I sent them a suggestion for a story based on CoH shurtting down and its players still putting in an eleventh-hour fundraiser for Children's Miracle Network Hopitals through the Extra Life charity.
We have nothing to lose by trying, except our apathy.
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Have you got contact info for CBS Sunday Morning? If so, please drop it here (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1frrB_PNZtjI1YebP1HslDZhIPFz6HpvLxF00BW0LhlI/edit)!
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T&A err B&S looks horrific.
LEMON BOOBS!
I wonder if lemonade comes out of them after they gestate an infant for 40 weeks instead of milk. >.>
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*looks at Blade and Soul pictures*
... I'll be in my bunk...
It may be evil.. but is is sexy evil.
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giant lemon boobies and camel toes so deep they rival the Grand Canyon..yup...anyone who buys that game will have a hella time playing that because it's sort of difficult to play an MMO with one hand.
ick..
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Wow....just....wow.
Yes, I am ALL for putting this spin on it. In fact, I am ALL for sending press releases to that effect directly to news outlets (anyone can send a press release on anything, you know).
Are you sure the name of this game is Blood and Soul and not Boobs and Sluts?
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Question is, did it earn that rating from the violence? Or from the T-n-A so blatantly shoved in our face? I like to look at sexy ladies as much as the next guy, but B&S just...wow. Geez.
I checked, it is Rating Pending, *minimum* M, which means it might be A. As for reasons, won't get that until it is finalized.
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Gotta say, I'm with VV on the "wow." And this is from a former sailor who donated a tidy sum to the Exotic Dancer's College Fund in his misspent youth. I think Blade and Soul is one I would play after the wife goes to sleep. With the lights out.
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Wow....just....wow.
Yes, I am ALL for putting this spin on it. In fact, I am ALL for sending press releases to that effect directly to news outlets (anyone can send a press release on anything, you know).
Are you sure the name of this game is Blood and Soul and not Boobs and Sluts?
I've been calling it Boobs and Shame for awhile now. But either way...
LEMON BOOBS!!
I think we have a new meme to spread! :D
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no kidding VV. As a parent I would NOT allow my kids to be in the same ROOM as us as we play this game. (like we were ever gonna buy it *sarcastic tone*)
That whole game turns my stomach. I mean, I'm not a rampant feminist railing against the objectification of women, nor am I someone who cries for all women to be in Burquas because that's the only way to be "modest". There is just something about that game that rubs me the wrong way. If it offends a moderate woman like myself...I hate how those on each end of the spectrum would react to it.
NCsoft wants to cater to Weeaboo neckbeards in their mom's basements (A smaller 'niche' than City of Heroes players) then let them. It'll be their downfall. Just get them to get their greasy claws out of City of Heroes first. Then they can burn.
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Thing that gets me about this?
The whole Eastern MMO to the West schtick?
It's been done. They called it Perfect World. They did it about 3 years ago.
Oh you, NCSoft. Oh you.
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no kidding VV. As a parent I would NOT allow my kids to be in the same ROOM as us as we play this game. (like we were ever gonna buy it *sarcastic tone*)
That whole game turns my stomach. I mean, I'm not a rampant feminist railing against the objectification of women, nor am I someone who cries for all women to be in Burquas because that's the only way to be "modest". There is just something about that game that rubs me the wrong way. If it offends a moderate woman like myself...I hate how those on each end of the spectrum would react to it.
NCsoft wants to cater to Weeaboo neckbeards in their mom's basements (A smaller 'niche' than City of Heroes players) then let them. It'll be their downfall. Just get them to get their greasy claws out of City of Heroes first. Then they can burn.
Yeah. I'm not at all a "zomg women should cover up" type, but B&S just turns my stomach. Even Tera's scantily clad women folk were more decently attired.
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Thing that gets me about this?
The whole Eastern MMO to the West schtick?
It's been done. They called it Perfect World. They did it about 3 years ago.
Oh you, NCSoft. Oh you.
Isn't the entire Final Fantasy franchise essentially this?
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btw Seg, I borrowed the pictures for my blog
I hope you don't mind :D http://littledinobug.blogspot.ca/2012/10/breasts-and-camels.html
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Wow....just....wow.
Yes, I am ALL for putting this spin on it. In fact, I am ALL for sending press releases to that effect directly to news outlets (anyone can send a press release on anything, you know).
Are you sure the name of this game is Blood and Soul and not Boobs and Sluts?
Blade, a personable weapon of choice that allows for Sensual kills.
Soul, the Naked you.
;-)
Also: "She Kicks High!"
Edit: Just a thought, but considering the "average" gamer who may end up watching said Fox news show, are you sure you want to draw that to their attention (assuming they didn't Already know about the game)?
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I dunno, I'm used to the kind of fanservice commonly put in anime and manga, and this game is extreme even to me.
There's more egregious pictures of the game around than the two you've used though.
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This is one thing I keep coming back to. I like a lot of 2-D fighter universes. I like the larger-than-life characters, the theatrical battle movements. Heck, some of them even have really awesome stories. But I see Cammie's battle thong, or Taki's assets, or Mai Shiranui's...everything...
The genre as a whole would be better off without such blatant depictions. The same could be said for B&S, I believe.
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Isn't the entire Final Fantasy franchise essentially this?
Not really the same thing at all. Final Fantasy is more of a traditional manga or anime artstyle - at least in the character designs and full render cutscenes of the older games. (Only since Final Fantasy 10 in 2001 were they able to consistantly render the same intricate character designs in-game that were designed for the promo artwork and CGI rendered cut-scenes of earlier games).
Final Fantasy has the occasional scantily clad female character that is appealing to the lowest common denominator, but far more often they have strong female characters who are dressed more or less sensibly for their roles.
Here's a few of the better examples of the various artstyles that Final Fantasy games have used. Each game has been designed by different artists. So Final Fantasy 7 had a completely different artstyle from FF8 and FF9 was different yet again, and so on.
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-DELahQ67DH8%2FTZoQaGN7-0I%2FAAAAAAAABtc%2FXapEKld-xdE%2Fs1600%2Ffinal-fantasy-vii-cast.jpg)
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=upload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fen%2Fthumb%2F5%2F5d%2FFinal_Fantasy_8_ntsc-front.jpg%2F250px-Final_Fantasy_8_ntsc-front.jpg)
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=a2.ec-images.myspacecdn.com%2Fimages01%2F72%2Fcb12cdf7c95d81ccb54c8710854751a0%2Fl.jpg)
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=images1.wikia.nocookie.net%2F__cb20100221115726%2Ffinalfantasy2%2Fde%2Fimages%2Ff%2Ff3%2FRinoa.jpg)
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=1.bp.blogspot.com%2F_5iEv4_q-28w%2FTQ0Gjg56_4I%2FAAAAAAAAAL4%2F-SQe3e85IqI%2Fs1600%2FFinal_Fantasy_IX.jpg)
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=nerdsontherocks.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F02%2FFF10.jpg)
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=www.videogamesblogger.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2008%2F08%2Flightning-character-art-from-final-fantasy-13.jpg)
So - Fanciful, yes. Stylized, yes. Over-the-top, yes. And some "fan-service" mixed in certainly.
But none of the FF games is anywhere NEAR the misogyny of Boobs and Shame - er - Blade and Soul.
Final Fantasy games for the most part get it right. The most recent one has a girl named "Lightning" (bottom pic up there with the red scarf, white jacket and sword) as the main character. And she's hardly running around with a lot of skin showing.
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As someone known from complaining about the increase of cheesecake fanservice in CoH (Hi, Mother Mayhem revamp), B&S is far, far above and beyond anything in CoH. CoH has a large female fanbase, games like B&S, with their clear catering to the straight male gaze, are very much -not- intended for female players. A feminist angle, although probably not a Fox News one ;), would be how NCSoft's "realignment" is a shift away from a girl gamer friendly game to a girls-are-objects game.
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thank you for saying that Atlantea :D You explained it way better than I could.
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As someone known from complaining about the increase of cheesecake fanservice in CoH (Hi, Mother Mayhem revamp), B&S is far, far above and beyond anything in CoH. CoH has a large female fanbase, games like B&S, with their clear catering to the straight male gaze, are very much -not- intended for female players. A feminist angle, although probably not a Fox News one ;), would be how NCSoft's "realignment" is a shift away from a girl gamer friendly game to a girls-are-objects game.
Huff Post fodder!
Not really the same thing at all. Final Fantasy is more of a traditional manga or anime artstyle - at least in the character designs and full render cutscenes of the older games. (Only since Final Fantasy 10 in 2001 were they able to consistantly render the same intricate character designs in-game that were designed for the promo artwork and CGI rendered cut-scenes of earlier games).
Nonono, I meant that blatantly self-serving and untrue statement that Boobs and Sluts is meant to introduce eastern martial arts and magic gaming to the west. I was under the impression that the entire FF saga had already done that, thenkewverramuch.
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Nonono, I meant that blatantly self-serving and untrue statement that Boobs and Sluts is meant to introduce eastern martial arts and magic gaming to the west. I was under the impression that the entire FF saga had already done that, thenkewverramuch.
Ahh I see what you mean.
Well if you're talking about eastern martial arts styled games, then their copy is STILL misleading and wrong, because Soul Caliber and even the venerable Street Fighter franchise did that long ago. (1991 in the case of Street Fighter)
As for Eastern styled magic in gaming, Final Fantasy has some, but FF is surprisingly generic in it's approach to magic. Most FF games have had more the flavor of Dungeons and Dragons than anything Eastern!
But plenty of other games from Japan and elsewhere have done the "Martial Arts and Eastern Magic" thing. Some of them have been brought to the west successfully but that's mostly been in the form of games like Suikoden and what's commonly called the "JRPG" genre.
Notably, NONE of the Korean MMOs have done well in North America. They all seem to adhere to a particular formula of mindless grinding with little or no plot (go here, kill X. Go here, kill more X) until you get to the End game, where it's NOTHING ELSE but large scale Player versus Player (PVP) which they tend to call RVR for "Race Versus Race" because you HAVE to team in nothing but large raid parties (practically armies!) to be effective. Western gamers tend to avoid those games like the plaque.
Blade and Soul is THAT kind of game, no matter what they say or what trappings it has in the form of individual character classes.
So I'm very confident that it will fail in this market just like the others have.
Doesn't mean we can't give it a little push though.
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(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=images1.wikia.nocookie.net%2F__cb20100221115726%2Ffinalfantasy2%2Fde%2Fimages%2Ff%2Ff3%2FRinoa.jpg)
Still my favorite FF female lead.
(Haven't played the latest one, so I can't judge or compare.)
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This is a good direction to take things. And SithRose, as one of those "right-wing fundamentalist wackos," I assure you that we're really not anything more than patriotic, wholesome-values-loving people with a great respect and love for our fellow man.
More to the point, Fox News had more viewership than any other major network during the debates. If we're GOING to get the word out, we can't be picky about who hears it. I am as willing to trust Fox News as I am MSNBC to take a story handed to them about a community getting together to save their game and tell it in a feel-good wholesome manner. (MSNBC, I expect it to be "little guys who play the game v. evil megacorp," while Fox I expect would take a more "look at this wholesome community and all the good they do; is there nothing that can be done to preserve their game?" approach.)
Segev, if you've got and demonstrate love and respect for your fellow humans, then you don't fall into the RWWF category. ;) I reserve that category for the hypocritical ones. Just to clarify, I DO think this is a good spin overall. I think we just need to be careful about how we present it and make sure people don't bring up, say, a certain arc from WP in Grandville. Which is really about as evil as COV gets aside from some of the SSAs.
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I just watched some game footage...
WTF, they animated boob jiggling?!?!?
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I just watched some game footage...
WTF, they animated boob jiggling?!?!?
...You've obviously never seen a WOW Forsaken female character....
Or a Night Elf doing the Mailbox Dance.
(Yes, undead females have jiggling...well...more like flopping, boobs.)
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I just watched some game footage...
WTF, they animated boob jiggling?!?!?
Heh, realistic 'jiggling' have been a Big Deal(TM) in videogames since the Dead or Alive (http://vglounge.com/throwback-thursday-dead-or-alive-2/) team wrote a a dedicated breast physics engine for their game series. Apparently the latest installment is costume specific (http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2012/aug/17/team-ninja-went-hands-make-realistic-breast-physics-dead-or-alive-5-fighters-sweat-and-get-dirty/).
Yes, this is the world we live in...
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True indeed, both red and blue side you have cults and the potential for female characters to wear skimpy togs. You also have Mayhem missions redside, robbing banks etc etc. But blueside you have Old Glory (as I believe them yankee types call their flag ;) ) flying atop of Paragon City Hall and endless stories of sacrifice and heroism in the fight against evil - including the game's iconic representation of American heroes, Statesman himself.
But when you compare CoH to a great many "goddamn video games that corrupt kids!" like the GTA series, you see comicbook differences - cars never knock anyone down for instance, and heroes never kill anyone, they "defeat" them or "arrest" them, and the bad guys always return by the next issue. Anyone who culturally sneers at CoH is also sneering at all comicbook heroes, from Superman through to Captain America.
And while it's true that women have had a...chequered history in comicbooks (e.g. Wonder Woman with her whip and penchant for being tied up all the time), there's simply no comparison between western comicbooks and the near-grotesque objectification of women typically seen in Korean games like Blade and Soul.
Yes, there's no absolute way to determine how any given media entity will choose to spin a story, but in the modern fast paced world of hi-tech, a picture does indeed speak a thousand words, and superficial visual processing is the order of the day.
CoH has Heroes and it has Villains, but the heroes do always win the day, and the villains do always say "Curse you, I'll be back!". It's oldschool, it's traditional...and it doesn't feature bizarrely sexualised children wandering around giggling and flashing their panties.
There is a risk that contasting the one against the other might not work - but the graphics do rather speak quite loudly I'd say.
Great points, i agree the it's a good risk and your right about graphics speaking louder then words.
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Wow....just....wow.
Yes, I am ALL for putting this spin on it. In fact, I am ALL for sending press releases to that effect directly to news outlets (anyone can send a press release on anything, you know).
Are you sure the name of this game is Blood and Soul and not Boobs and Sluts?
Should I try to include that as part of the Media Day press release? (Shameless plug: I'm looking for advice on how to improve said release/invitation, which has recently had its latest draft posted in the "Word Spreading Event: Media Day" thread.)
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btw Seg, I borrowed the pictures for my blog
I hope you don't mind :D http://littledinobug.blogspot.ca/2012/10/breasts-and-camels.html
I don't mind, but I didn't make them, so... ^^;
They ARE quite clever, though, and I applaud their creator.
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As someone known from complaining about the increase of cheesecake fanservice in CoH (Hi, Mother Mayhem revamp), B&S is far, far above and beyond anything in CoH. CoH has a large female fanbase, games like B&S, with their clear catering to the straight male gaze, are very much -not- intended for female players. A feminist angle, although probably not a Fox News one ;), would be how NCSoft's "realignment" is a shift away from a girl gamer friendly game to a girls-are-objects game.
Fox News would be more likely to go the "degradation of morals" and the OP's blunt point route, but they DO consider such things as "girl gamer" and "girls-are-objects." Seriously, conservatives do not hate women. :-\ I mean, it's kind of offensive that you think we do. This isn't the forum to argue this out, but girls and boys are both people, and the biggest things conservatives value are life and liberty.
Add in that the morality to which conservatives adhere tends to include protecting women from being objectified (note that this is not "dress them in burqhas" ... and I can't spell that word ... but rather "don't make it all about their sexual characteristics"), and we're really on the same page as the OP on this one.
Sorry about the mini-rant; I just get very tired of being told "Oh, no, not you, just all the REST of your kind" when I object to the rather disgusting stereotype. ^^;
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Fox News would be more likely to go the "degradation of morals" and the OP's blunt point route, but they DO consider such things as "girl gamer" and "girls-are-objects." Seriously, conservatives do not hate women. :-\ I mean, it's kind of offensive that you think we do. This isn't the forum to argue this out, but girls and boys are both people, and the biggest things conservatives value are life and liberty.
Add in that the morality to which conservatives adhere tends to include protecting women from being objectified (note that this is not "dress them in burqhas" ... and I can't spell that word ... but rather "don't make it all about their sexual characteristics"), and we're really on the same page as the OP on this one.
Sorry about the mini-rant; I just get very tired of being told "Oh, no, not you, just all the REST of your kind" when I object to the rather disgusting stereotype. ^^;
Well, a helpful word of advise, if you catch someone who calls themselves a conservative doing that, call them out on it. Simple as that.
I'm on the other end of the political spectrum, I even work for a left-wing political blog. And if I catch someone on my side being a jerk, I chew them out over it, many times publically. Silence means acceptance. This is why it seems to many on the outside that liberals are so quick to turn on each other, because we hold ourselves up to a higher standard. If you don't want to be painted with a broad brush, you need to do the same.
That goes for this effort too, we're better than NCSoft, we're better than this TnA game they want to push on us. Never degrade ourselves by dropping to that level of standard.
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Oh, beleive me, I do. Thing is...I don't often see it. That's why the stereotype offends me so much; it's declared casually and even with a "ho ho they're so horrible it's funny" attitude as if it's a majority-held view, when in reality, it's a straw man. I don't mean even in the logical fallacy sense. I mean it is a charicature of something that conservatives just don't believe, don't feel, and don't act like.
CAN you find some conservatives who believe or act like some of that? Sure, just like you can find liberals who believe some part of it. But just because it was a lefty nut that shot up the batman movie this summer doesn't mean all liberals are gun-toting maniacs. The guy was deeply disturbed, and the fact he shared views with many others doesn't make those many others represented by him and his actions.
In short: It's offensive because it's the "You're a credit to your race" stereotype that assumes any example that doesn't match the highly offensive stereotype is an exception. No matter how many "exceptions" one finds.
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...bleh. Sorry. Let's stop derailing this thread. All I ask is a little less liable aimed at Fox News's audience when we can use all the media aid we can get.
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Should I try to include that as part of the Media Day press release? (Shameless plug: I'm looking for advice on how to improve said release/invitation, which has recently had its latest draft posted in the "Word Spreading Event: Media Day" thread.)
I would say that you should. So far as ammunition goes (and remember that most modern journalists are lazy and like having something they can run with handed to them) this is powerful stuff and the imagery speaks for itself.
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Small note, the Colorado shooter was a self-admitted centrist, and reading what material he posted I believe him.
But yes, let us keep on topic. I am figuring out an angle to see if I can get an approval from my boss. She aok'd my World of Warcraft article earlier today, (an attack on a woman running for office, claiming she had a double life for having a level 68 Rogue....) so is wary of yet another game article.
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I would say that you should. So far as ammunition goes (and remember that most modern journalists are lazy and like having something they can run with handed to them) this is powerful stuff and the imagery speaks for itself.
I'm off to bed now. Pressure front and too late a night last night combining to make me unable to focus now.
THoughts on the press release as written are appreciated; I'll see if I can't incorporate the images and some information on their relevance tomorrow morning. Might not be 'til Sunday, though, depending how early I get up.
...might also be fruitful to make it two distinct releases, and send out the images one from this thread a couple hours before the invitation one. Whet the appetite with a "juicy story" that they'd need to do some investigation to get more details about, and then offer them the avenue for "more details" on the wholesome thing the salacious thing is replacing.
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Small note, the Colorado shooter was a self-admitted centrist, and reading what material he posted I believe him.
But yes, let us keep on topic. I am figuring out an angle to see if I can get an approval from my boss. She aok'd my World of Warcraft article earlier today, (an attack on a woman running for office, claiming she had a double life for having a level 68 Rogue....) so is wary of yet another game article.
The first one was politics.
CoH is alternately good for the Business section or the Human Interest section.
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I just watched some game footage...
WTF, they animated boob jiggling?!?!?
I guess you never played Lineage 2 (another NCSoft Fantasy/Grinding/Boring debacle). The Dark Elf women ran forward hunched over, with their breasts hanging towards the ground, shaking like held water balloons the whole way. And that game is almost as old as City of Heroes (came out within a few months of our dearly beloved game).
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the Dead or Alive team wrote a a dedicated breast physics engine
I feel I should <facepalm> for my entire gender just reading this...
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>Industry artist fail: Hyung Tae Kim (so VERY VERY nsfw!) (http://gomakemeasandwich.wordpress.com/2011/02/11/industry-artist-fail-hyung-tae-kim-so-very-very-nsfw/)
The thing is, in a field where artists are known for exaggerating and distorting the female form, he is known for being at the extreme end of that scale, and NCSoft hired him specifically for that style.
Anyway, all that aside, the purpose here really is about the timing of B&S's western launch announcement. It's just convenient for us that the artwork in Blade and Soul suits our purpose as a contrast with the "heroic" western visual theme of of CoH.
Yeah, that's probably a good idea, it just seemed that some were personally offended by the game itself.
And from what I understand, they chose the artist because he's extremely popular in Korea (their home market, and market of choice judging by what a lot of people said).
*looks at Blade and Soul pictures*
... I'll be in my bunk...
It may be evil.. but is is sexy evil.
+1 points for the Firefly reference! ;D
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But plenty of other games from Japan and elsewhere have done the "Martial Arts and Eastern Magic" thing. Some of them have been brought to the west successfully but that's mostly been in the form of games like Suikoden and what's commonly called the "JRPG" genre.
Gawd, I loved that game.
I took great joy in watching my castle grow as I collected my "stars". ;D
On the whole Eastern Martial Arts fighting thing - I do believe they have specifically said they are aiming for the fighting style used in Crouching tiger Hidden dragon, House of Flying Daggers, Hero, etc... the over the top, leaping across mountains and fighting among the treetops kind of martial arts - though I'm guessing it'll be more about the lightning fast kicks and punches, and similar blocks.
Quite different from Streetfighter and other beat'em ups - my guess would be that the Dynasty Warriors series would be a better fit if you're looking for a game to compare it to, or even Jade Empire.
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*ponders how, while maintaining a news-y tone, to work in the line "replacing your kids' comic books with a subscription to Playboy."*
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*ponders how, while maintaining a news-y tone, to work in the line "replacing your kids' comic books with a subscription to Playboy."*
How about
"Replacing your Kids Captain America Sub with a sub to a Hentai mag" Because that's what it is. ;)
Then you go on describing what Hentai is...since everyone knows Good ol Cap! *Patriotism spin!* And then ask if that's what they want their kids exposed to.
Fight the bad guys and win the day? or... Bouncy bouncy bouncy tatas.
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Here's my attempt at a press release based on what we've got in this thread. I have quoted people from here and from other threads, and provided links to the blogger who used the OP's images and to Titan Forums' "Save the City" subforum. Anybody who would like their quotes taken out, please say so! I've named no names (though the blogger's blog is linked, so that's not exactly secret for her).
Reviewing for content is also requested. I'm trying to keep this as "news-y" and "neutral" as I can, using "others'" words for the opinion-slanting things. I am a little concerned that I might have stung too hard with too much innuendo at the end, so comments one way or the other and suggestions for improvement are welcome.
Obviously, if I've got any grammar errors, please note those as well! Thanks!
NCSoft to Customers: "We Are No Longer Producing Comics For Your Kids; We Hope They Enjoy Their New Subscription to Playboy!"
City of Heroes is, according to the official announcement that was the shocking first word of its impending closure, the "first and greatest" superhero online role-playing game. Employees of the studio producing its content and fans alike were stunned by the announcement from NCSoft, the company which publishes and owns the Intellectual Property rights to this family-friendly comic-book themed game, because by all measures it was a profitable product that more than pulled its own weight.
Explanation from NCSoft cites a "realignment of company focus" that was incompatible with City of Heroes. What is the new focus? In June of 2012, they released in Korea a new game called Blade and Soul, prominently advertising the art and style done by Hyung-Tae Kim in designing all of the visuals, particularly graphical exaggeration of the female characters that is extreme even by the standards of the Korean "manwha" style that already emphasizes their sexuality. Though the release date of this new game in the West is yet to be announced, it will almost certainly come in the fiscal year which starts with the final shutdown of the servers for City of Heroes (on Nov. 30, 2012).
As one person observed, it seems this realignment of focus is to replace this:
(https://i.imgur.com/q5cX8.jpg)
...with this:
(https://i.imgur.com/80RcX.jpg)
While comic books have always had a spotty reputation with regards to their heroines' state of (un)dress, they have also had a reputation for wholesome messages and even the most swimsuit-model-esq super heroine was still an empowering figure, inspiring many girls as much as the muscle-bound heroes with their underwear outside their tights inspired boys to fight for truth and justice. Even four-color villains are good, clean, cathartic fun, with plans so over-the-top that they're only taken seriously in a fictionalized context.
In the choices for which games to open and which to close in NCSoft's "realignment," some are concerned that they close the family-friendly game which attracts and empowers girl gamers as well as boys even as they open a salacious new title that objectifies women in extreme and unrealistic ways.
One blogger wrote (http://littledinobug.blogspot.ca/2012/10/breasts-and-camels.html), "As a parent, I will not be buying this game. I do not want my children exposed to this kind of material. I had no problems with them playing City of Heroes/Villains, but I refuse to allow them to even get a glimpse of this game. I'm far from a prude, but this is just too far." Her blog referenced these two images, created by a fan of City of Heroes to emphasize the point: (https://i.imgur.com/wreWf.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/3aU9P.jpg)
City of Heroes brings together fathers and sons; one player is particularly upset because he had to recently ground his child from the internet, which means they will likely miss their last chances to enjoy this game together.
Another player has cited the game as the only place he and his father (who is fighting cancer) can really spend time together. "I really hope we save this game because he loves it sooooo much and he doesn't get to see me except on it most of the time," he wrote in a forum post on a site (http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/board,134.0.html) dedicated to saving their game, "I don't live down the street and haven't had a car in years. This is the world we connect in and where he's a hero, not sick."
The sentiments from those who use this game as a community to connect with family and bridge the generation gap seem unanimous: comic books are a great way to bond, but this "soft-core porn" (as one player termed it) sends them, at best, "to their bunk." "What?" said one player somewhat shamefacedly, "It's evil, but it's sexy evil."
It is clear, however, that City of Heroes is, to its players, more than a game. It is a community. A community that crosses gender and generational lines in a way that would be inappropriate to impossible for them to share with the new "realigned" focus of NCSoft's products designed to be enjoyed but a narrower and more grown-up masculine demographic...in private.
I'm going to try to find somebody other than myself to send this release out to various news organizations. I have another that I'm working on to invite reporters to see the game, and I think this will be more powerful coming from somebody else, perhaps those who've expressed opinions included in here. Any volunteers, either to disseminate it or to find places for dissemination, are invited to chime in. We'll try to make sure all the agencies that get this one also get the invitation to play CoH on the 20th; this should whet their appetite for the "human interest" angle and the invitation should show them where they can get some meat.
How about
"Replacing your Kids Captain America Sub with a sub to a Hentai mag" Because that's what it is. ;)
Then you go on describing what Hentai is...since everyone knows Good ol Cap! *Patriotism spin!* And then ask if that's what they want their kids exposed to.
Fight the bad guys and win the day? or... Bouncy bouncy bouncy tatas.
Hm, that's a possible idea. If it doesn't get used in the press release, it might still be useful for somebody in an editorial or blog! Good thinking!
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Good job Segev! *thumbs up* :)
I've had a bit more fun today with this concept...couldn't resist really...
(https://i.imgur.com/P8U64.jpg)
*whistles nonchalantly and walks away* ;)
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The media will spin this the way they want to spin it. If you dine with the devil....
Here's the perfect example: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-19842704
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Good job Segev! *thumbs up* :)
I've had a bit more fun today with this concept...couldn't resist really...
(https://i.imgur.com/P8U64.jpg)
*whistles nonchalantly and walks away* ;)
**KER-SLAM-O-RAMA-DAMA-DING-DONG-POW!!!!!!**
Taek Jin Kim and NCSoft? You just got SERVED!!!!
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I love it!!!
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That last concept made me laugh. Nice work. I guess I didn't realize how distasteful the art is or rather, the way it depicts women and those of a certain age.
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"their underwear outside their tights "
I would change this line - It's not actually accurate in terms of superhero history. ;) The original superhero costumes were designed after wrestling outfits of the day, and the tights were deemed to show off "assets" too obviously. So they had the wrestlers wear shorts over those tights to maintain "standards of modesty". The comics followed those wrestling standards when designing costumes. I realize that this is slightly nit-picky, but it's one of those fun facts that shows that you researched the history of Superheroes in America.
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LOL! That's pretty epic, Turjan! Are those actual pictures of Mr Kim?
And he looks so enthusiastic in them too! ;)
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LOL! That's pretty epic, Turjan! Are those actual pictures of Mr Kim?
And he looks so enthusiastic in them too! ;)
Yup, that's the man himself :)
He can afford to be enthusiastic I suppose...quite literally, given his salary ;)
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I think they could counter with a pic of Mother Mayhem and her (apparently) inflatable bosom, and Ms. Swan with her (unintentional) see-through costume and we might look a little foolish.
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I had some difficulty writing this. Because I like all the options in the tailor, even the racy ones. And some of Hyung Tae Kim's work can be quite nice when it isn't focussing on boobs and butts and bad anatomy. I am a gamer who would like to see gamer culture start to view women -- as game characters and as fellow players -- as coequals, and not merely objects, decorations, victims, or rewards, and the goal of this angle works with that hope. I just can't help but think this could come around and bite us very hard.
I am not a fan of the art in B&S, I think that should be obvious, above and beyond it being held up as a replacement for CoH; this is more than a longtime CoH player's anger speaking. The examples depicted look pretty damning to me, and if I wasn't already planning on never playing any other NCsoft game, this would have turned me off. I'm sure that the male characters will be well-done as well, but the concern is the female characters here, and their design is... really quite awful and out there. Hyung Tae Kim is coming off as the Liefeld of the manwah set in this. But the other side can play this game, too, so to speak.
Sister Psyche's costume of straps, Mother Mayhem and the Twins, Swan, the female walk cycle, the Penny Yin boobs-and-butt splash screen, the dominatrix Barbarian costume set.... Someone could look at all the B&S art and, with a little time, pick examples from CoH to say "But your supposedly family-friendly game does it too!" They'd be wrong (the problem is as much one of sheer volume of data points as it is amplitude of those data points) but they'd still shout it. And, there are enough Western gamers who want more T-and-A in their games, who have no problems with, for example, the "Attack of the Saints" video, or Rumble Roses, such that they will come out in droves to provide every counter-point above and more.
I am not saying to not go this route. The misogyny within gamer culture is something to be squashed and not tolerated and it must be called out whenever seen. And in this case that goal, and the goal to shame NCsoft, run in parallel. And all else being equal, this is an excellent way to do it, because even with the blemishes of CoH they are minuscule, fixable, and/or contextualizable. (Is that a word? It is now!) Not so B&S, which makes it a part of it's identity such that NCsoft is stressing that they are striving to keep, in the Western release, all of the T&A in the Asian version that has so whetted the appetites of their projected target audience.
I am, however, saying that if this is becomes a Thing, a project or operation, that it will be attacked, and those attacks must be prepared for.
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Here's my attempt at a press release based on what we've got in this thread. I have quoted people from here and from other threads, and provided links to the blogger who used the OP's images and to Titan Forums' "Save the City" subforum. Anybody who would like their quotes taken out, please say so! I've named no names (though the blogger's blog is linked, so that's not exactly secret for her).
Reviewing for content is also requested. I'm trying to keep this as "news-y" and "neutral" as I can, using "others'" words for the opinion-slanting things. I am a little concerned that I might have stung too hard with too much innuendo at the end, so comments one way or the other and suggestions for improvement are welcome.
Segev, if I may make one suggestion: It may help to instead have an in-game image of a female CoH character to provide a stronger counter-point to the second B&S image?
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NCSoft to Customers: "We Are No Longer Producing Comics For Your Kids; We Hope They Enjoy Their New Subscription to Playboy!"
Didn't someone say they'll most likely go for an "M" rating?
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It has some pretty decent violence in it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtA1jSreK84
The video I linked pretty much starts off by a hulking brute pounding his steel gaunlets repeatedly into the face of the opponent he has pinned down. (and I'm assuming those red splashes are meant to be blood >.>)
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But the other side can play this game, too, so to speak.
Sister Psyche's costume of straps, Mother Mayhem and the Twins, Swan, the female walk cycle, the Penny Yin boobs-and-butt splash screen, the dominatrix Barbarian costume set.... Someone could look at all the B&S art and, with a little time, pick examples from CoH to say "But your supposedly family-friendly game does it too!"
I agree entirely, someone might say "your game has that too!"
But if that's the case, you have to then ask, who is this "other side" who'd want to play that card? Someone who thinks all games are bad and they already contain too many over-sexualised characters? Then all that would do is add hurt to Blade and Soul too, yes? To suggest that CoH is the 'lesser of two evils' doesn't diminish the greater 'evil'.
How about someone who thinks all games should have moar bewbies in rather than less? Well their complaint isn't valid either because B&S does have 'moar bewbies' than CoH, and pointing to CoH's females and B&S's females simply confirms that.
Either way, attention is drawn to B&S, and not in a good way.
Like I said earlier, western comic books have quite a long history of questionable female heroines - I mentioned Wonder Woman always being tied up and carrying a whip, and I could add Power Girl and her 'assets' (created, as I understand it, as a joke by the artists to see how far they could push things before the editor stopped them...but he never did) too. However, more recently, comic book females have assumed a less glamorous and more positive role model for women...unlike fantasy MMOs which seem (if anything) to be sliding in the other direction.
If people use the "yes but yours has bewbies too!" argument, it presupposes the "too" part - i.e. B&S has to be in the spotlight as the offender before someone can wag a finger in any direction. And if that light of negativity is on B&S at all, it's bad PR for NCSoft.
Saying that CoH's "sexualisation" is on a par with that found in Blade and Soul is like saying the real reason Statesman was killed off is because Southern Korean NCSoft didn't like the fact his costume "looks a bit like the North Korean flag"...
(https://i.imgur.com/uSaWs.jpg)
Joking aside (assuming that IS a joke of course, and not the actual reason he was killed ;)) remember the statement "...a realignment of company focus" and the fact that however you paint CoH's heroines, B&S is still an order of magnitude more overtly sexualised.
The ironic thing is that I'd guess the statement "a realignment of company focus" actually refers to what seems to be NCSoft's intention to focus on casual/mobile gaming in future, and that, I believe, might be part of their desire to close down overseas pc-based MMOs. So in order to deny the allegation that 'realignment' equates to 'adding moar bewbies', they'd have to explain what the realignment really is...and that's something I'm sure we'd all like to know if it would shed any light on the reason why they're killing our game.
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One of the biggest kettles of fish to get out of the way is "company created" vs "user created" imagery. Yes, players can use the boob slider in CoH. Yes, they can create avatars that run around in string bikinis. Those are absolutely options built into the game that provide a launch pad for this sort of imagery. It's still imagery created by the player base, not directly created for marketing the game.
In terms of promotional imagery, CoH has always been better than a lot of video games -and- comic books. It's why the Praetorian revamps and the more recent changes bothered me so much -- it was turning CoH closer to the products I usually avoid.
This type of imagery is also very much geared to a specific audience -- teenage and young adult guys who like girls. It's the marketing niche that leaves a great deal of CoH's base out in the cold -- older gamers, women gamers, gaymers, family-orientated gamers. It tells us that B&S is "not for you," no matter what fancy words NCSoft tries to tell us.
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One of the biggest kettles of fish to get out of the way is "company created" vs "user created" imagery. Yes, players can use the boob slider in CoH. Yes, they can create avatars that run around in string bikinis. Those are absolutely options built into the game that provide a launch pad for this sort of imagery. It's still imagery created by the player base, not directly created for marketing the game.
In terms of promotional imagery, CoH has always been better than a lot of video games -and- comic books. It's why the Praetorian revamps and the more recent changes bothered me so much -- it was turning CoH closer to the products I usually avoid.
This type of imagery is also very much geared to a specific audience -- teenage and young adult guys who like girls. It's the marketing niche that leaves a great deal of CoH's base out in the cold -- older gamers, women gamers, gaymers, family-orientated gamers. It tells us that B&S is "not for you," no matter what fancy words NCSoft tries to tell us.
Not so sure it's that one sided, the male characters seem to be rather well done too.
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=www.xgn.nl%2Fimages%2Farticles%2Foriginal%2F2012%2F40160--bezig-martial-arts-spel-blade-soul-komt-naar-europa.jpg)
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Good job Segev! *thumbs up* :)
I've had a bit more fun today with this concept...couldn't resist really...
(https://i.imgur.com/P8U64.jpg)
*whistles nonchalantly and walks away* ;)
May I use this in an article?
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Apparently B&S' artist, Hyung Tae Kim, is a fan of comics... there's gotta be some irony that...
http://www.ign.com/articles/2009/11/28/g-star-2009-tea-with-hyung-tae-kim
(Also, the orange boobs used in that "article" up top are apparently from another game of his =P)
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The female character desperately needs some armor, if for no other reason than to keep herself from accidentally removing her ribcage with those gauntlets.
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How about
"Replacing your Kids Captain America Sub with a sub to a Hentai mag" Because that's what it is. ;)
Or, since not everyone knows what Hentai is, "Replacing your kid's Captain America comic book with a Fredericks of Hollywood catalog."
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Or, since not everyone knows what Hentai is, "Replacing your kid's Captain America comic book with a Fredericks of Hollywood catalog."
I'm fairly sure that no one I know IRL over here is going to know THAT one!
But since you'll most likely be aiming for a US audience... :P
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I'm fairly sure that no one I know IRL over here is going to know THAT one!
But since you'll most likely be aiming for a US audience... :P
Good point. We'd need appropriate substitutions for different regions.
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Good point. We'd need appropriate substitutions for different regions.
After Googling it I can see why you suggested it though, very fitting. ;D
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How about, instead, a Victoria's Secret catalog?
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How about, instead, a Victoria's Secret catalog?
That one I think is pretty international (as in everyone that owns a tv or reads books has probably come across the reference sometime).
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Which one? Fredericks of Hollywood?
Must be an american thing then...
No, Victoria's Secret - I had never heard of Frederick's before either.
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Victoria's Secret would probably work internationally. Both are lingerie catalogs. Difference would be opening the mailbox to find the Fredericks catalog, someone might look around to see if anyone else was watching them pull their mail out of the box and then hide it behind the rest of the mail when they think the coast is clear.
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Victoria's Secret would probably work internationally. Both are lingerie catalogs. Difference would be opening the mailbox to find the Fredericks catalog, someone might look around to see if anyone else was watching them pull their mail out of the box and then hide it behind the rest of the mail when they think the coast is clear.
Yeah. Pretty much.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzmqOW0c3o8&feature=fvwrel
For you all to see what the game is like....it's sexy unproportionate women made out of jelly. Noone can walk like that and this oversexed game is our replacement for heroes?
Rock says "noone can walk like that i tried...it's not possible" He looked really funny trying also
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May I use this in an article?
Can't see any reason why not.
After all, the words in quotation marks are actual verbatim NCSoft quotes, so its veracity is in no doubt. Though I can't say whether Mr.Kim really does open public addresses with "Oh hi, I'm TJKim, CEO of NCSOFT" ;)
There is one small issue of accuracy though...
(Also, the orange boobs used in that "article" up top are apparently from another game of his =P)
As Knightslayer correctly points out, the orange bewbies are in fact from Magna Carta, not Blade and Soul. I didn't clock that when I ran across that article earlier and nabbed the pic - well done Knight for checking! In the interests of accuracy, I'll tweak the original pic and swap said set of boobs for another from B&S.
Stay tuned, same Batchannel... :D
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I'm genuinely conflicted on this point. While I enjoy CoH, I enjoy it knowing that its record with regards to its female characters is...spotty. That has more to do with narrative than presentation, though: a lot of the male character embody certain physical ideals, too, and aren't afraid to show it off. CoH inherited this from comics. Power Girl existed well before Sister Psyche, after all. (At least Superman and Wolverine routinely show off their toned physiques, which is fair...on some minor level.)
That said, and as I alluded to in my other post in this thread, we need to start asking for more consideration from our game developers. Ivy Valentine has all the makings of an epic tragic heroine, but absolutely no one is going to take her seriously because she's wearing...that. I like a lot of the presentation of B&S--the colors, the (to us) exotic setting, the organic look to the costumes--but I couldn't admit to anyone that I actually played it because of all the cheesecake. And I'm willing to bring up playing Catherine to near-strangers! I mean, have you seen the PS3 cover art for this game?
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzmqOW0c3o8&feature=fvwrel
For you all to see what the game is like....it's sexy unproportionate women made out of jelly.
That was just... weird... O.O
As Knightslayer correctly points out, the orange bewbies are in fact from Magna Carta, not Blade and Soul. I didn't clock that when I ran across that article earlier and nabbed the pic - well done Knight for checking!
No problem!
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/me watches video and makes a face.
...clearly this game is made by men who have never seen a real woman. Ever.
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I like a lot of the presentation of B&S--the colors, the (to us) exotic setting, the organic look to the costumes--but I couldn't admit to anyone that I actually played it because of all the cheesecake.
I agree entirely - it's sad really, because B&S does seem to have a very lush setting and decent animation...and then you get stuff like that video Moonfyire101 linked. I actually found it repulsive. I mean, like physically repulsive. I'm an artist - in my time I've done cartoons and caricatures, and yes, I have indeed drawn sexy ladies (what cartoonist/caricaturist has not?), but I've always operated to what I regarded as a 'classical' aesthetic. It's ok to exaggerate a little (exaggeration is after all what caricature is) but there comes a point where 'caricature' crosses an aesthetic line and becomes 'grotesque'. There's no doubt in my artistic mind that Hyung-Tae Kim has crossed that line.
Anyway...I've removed the Magna Carta boobies and replaced them with Blade and Soul ones...and I also took the opportunity of slightly resizing the speech balloon in the first panel cos it was irritating me a tad ;)
(https://i.imgur.com/cjOVM.jpg)
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Thank you, article is up:
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/10/06/corps-shut-down-family-friendly-products/
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Thank you, article is up:
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/10/06/corps-shut-down-family-friendly-products/
No it's not >.>
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Page not found...
Yep... =/
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Try now. Just republished it to try and clear the access cache.
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Worked for me. Good read. :)
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Try now. Just republished it to try and clear the access cache.
It works now, nice job! ;D
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I swear, I owe the boss some of my wifes homemade fudge for hannukkah this year for all of the bending of the rules I've gotten away with.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzmqOW0c3o8&feature=fvwrel
For you all to see what the game is like....it's sexy unproportionate women made out of jelly. Noone can walk like that and this oversexed game is our replacement for heroes?
Rock says "noone can walk like that i tried...it's not possible" He looked really funny trying also
:o
W
T
F
I think Barbie is better proportioned than that monstrocity. No woman moves or looks like that...
Shoot, she looks like she'd poke her OWN eyes out with Those Things.
And people think THAT is sexy?
Where's the puke emoticon?
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If i may say a few things
er. . .first and formost i live in washington state gonna be an important fact here for what i am about to type
i can't help but wonder if this dicistion is being more driven by international politics then money,
see american got kicked harder then most counterys when the dive happened and so far it's beel REALLY slow to recover (this is old news)
so, as the presidential election is being shown across the world (as i am told) all of this talk of Get 'merica back in the worlds fase again *MIGHT* have cause a. . .say korean companey, to remeber those days and say. . . no i would like a chance to compete on the worlds stage, and if that means putting a few hunderod peaople out of a job to do so. . . . better for me
any who i don't REALLY know much about any of them but thats the though that went by so i though i would put it out here maybe someone with actually knowledge in this field might be able to que me in a bit more.
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And more grist for the mill...
http://youtu.be/NKh9o-li5LI
Victoria's Secret catalog indeed... To be totally fair, I saw a handful of costume ideas in there that I wouldn't mind seeing in other games, but for the most part.... *FACEPALM*
I'd call this a "mature" game, except there's nothing mature about the objectification going on here.
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Nice job indeed downix, great article! :)
And that latest vid link Atlantea...ewww! I definitely stand by my description of the style being a sad grotesque of the human form :o
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The only thing I liked about the female walk was how naturally the hair moved...and if i were ever going to go fight someone I SURE would wear something this protective. /em sarcasm
(https://i.imgur.com/y8zPS.jpg)
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A bikini top is designed to hold the breasts, so she's not even wearing that. They're just kind of hanging out. A gust of wind and it's gone.
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As politicians all know, you tune your message to your audience. Throw the right meat to the right beasts. Because these days, most people rarely venture outside of their own internet comfort zones.
So IMHO, no, a "campaign" of this sort is not likely to get counter-arguments of "but you have sexxah things too!" from anyone where it would be effectively pitched. They'll be way too busy chomping on the meat and revving up the RAAHR! machine to think about it.
Cynical? Oh, a tad.
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I actually went to watch the video...before commenting.
The backgrounds and charactor detail if one ignores the problem we all see <shakes head> are beautiful. I prefer a mixture of setting types rather then pure fantasy...and yes eastern styles games have been played and enjoyed by me for years. Final Fantasy, Dragon Warrior/Quest, Suikoden and many more are games I love.
That said the outfits in that game and the blatent sexualization are just wrong. I'm afraid to see what happens with combat animations in those skimpy, impractical outfits...COH is not perfect, comics are not perfect and I am neither prude nor exibitionist but that game is blatent I would be very uncomfortable as a woman in the obvious community tha will result...ugh
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I finally got the animations loaded.
Ah....uhm....
Let's just say that I have never seen a human female, ever, with those proportions. Not even Barbie is that unrealistic.
The emotes...combined with those figures...are, quite frankly, dancing perilously close to the obscene and would certainly send most feminists right through the roof.
Then we get to the walk. I actually have seem real human females walk like that. They were strippers and pole-dancers in the 60s and 70s before direct silicon injection into the tissue to enhance breasts was banned, and their assets had (literally) turned rock hard. The "walk" was not natural, had to be learned over the course of several weeks and was part of their "dance" act.
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I think a more appropriate name for that game would be "Blood and Breasts". Yikes.
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A bikini top is designed to hold the breasts, so she's not even wearing that. They're just kind of hanging out. A gust of wind and it's gone.
A gust of wind, all she has to do is *move* and oops wardrobe malfunction. Heck even a stripper would start out wearing more then that piece of *clothing*. Having made my rational and nice responce o this game...yeah 'm getting in on the critiques here because its just laughable and degrading.
If we need tastfully designed female toons for contrast somehow I suspect a "women of paragon" rally could occur :) we don't have to show our more risque desgns in the picture after all :)
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And I just finished working through a number of costume shots.
Either every player posting on You Tube is playing with one hand, OR it is actually purposefully difficult to make your female character look like something other than a hooker, a pole-dancer, a stripper, or a lingerie model.
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And I just finished working through a number of costume shots.
Either every player posting on You Tube is playing with one hand, OR it is actually purposefully difficult to make your female character look like something other than a hooker, a pole-dancer, a stripper, or a lingerie model.
;D
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And more grist for the mill...
http://youtu.be/NKh9o-li5LI
Victoria's Secret catalog indeed... To be totally fair, I saw a handful of costume ideas in there that I wouldn't mind seeing in other games, but for the most part.... *FACEPALM*
I'd call this a "mature" game, except there's nothing mature about the objectification going on here.
Mother of God... how is....wh-what? I honestly thought something like this would be a no-no. This is the type of thing you see in a TV show that is trying to exaggerate sexism in video games. Jesus Christ. This is so far from okay.
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...would certainly send most feminists right through the roof.
There are a number of groups that I'm sure would be more than happy to help create some noise.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzmqOW0c3o8&feature=fvwrel
For you all to see what the game is like....it's sexy unproportionate women made out of jelly. Noone can walk like that and this oversexed game is our replacement for heroes?
Rock says "noone can walk like that i tried...it's not possible" He looked really funny trying also
Geez, a Barbie doll is more anatomically correct. That's just awful.
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I finally got the animations loaded.
Ah....uhm....
Let's just say that I have never seen a human female, ever, with those proportions. Not even Barbie is that unrealistic.
The emotes...combined with those figures...are, quite frankly, dancing perilously close to the obscene and would certainly send most feminists right through the roof.
Then we get to the walk. I actually have seem real human females walk like that. They were strippers and pole-dancers in the 60s and 70s before direct silicon injection into the tissue to enhance breasts was banned, and their assets had (literally) turned rock hard. The "walk" was not natural, had to be learned over the course of several weeks and was part of their "dance" act.
That has to be one of the most ridiculous looking females I have ever seen.
And that walking animation... ugh. You want a sexy looking walk, look at the walk animation for females in COH (whoever animated that needs a medal). B&S, ugh...
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That has to be one of the most ridiculous looking females I have ever seen.
And that walking animation... ugh. You want a sexy looking walk, look at the walk animation for females in COH (whoever animated that needs a medal). B&S, ugh...
The female walk cycle in CoH isn't bad. It is a little sexualized; the ass swings more than needed, and the arms are in so she's flinging her hands about, while the male character is very purposefully striding with no wasted motion. I did notice CoH wasn't great, but it's by no means the worst.
This... wow. This is astonishingly bad. The fact that this character's ass is so shiny you can see lights reflecting in it as she jiggles down he path, wearing eight inch heels in the outdoors... this is bizarre and wrong. Where are her organs! How does she digest with no intestines?
Several of the emotes had her clipping her own boobs with her arm because she couldn't actually touch her own face otherwise.
This is going to fail in the US. Why would they bother with this?
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I feel I should <facepalm> for my entire gender just reading this...
*COUGHS*She Kicks High (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Jfzh2s3jlE)*COUGHS*
I take it nobody caught my reference earlier then?
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Not so sure it's that one sided, the male characters seem to be rather well done too.
OMG that soooo didn't read properly in my head the first time. O.O :-X O>:-)
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The female character desperately needs some armor, if for no other reason than to keep herself from accidentally removing her ribcage with those gauntlets.
I realize it's a generalization, but I was always told that in video games atleast the Asian logic was that the less the female wore, the stronger her personal strength (think shielding, others fear hurting, etc) became.
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No, Victoria's Secret - I had never heard of Frederick's before either.
In VS you're more likely to find elaborate Lengere and perfumes. In Fredericks you're likely to find more, um, 'personable' clothing for both genders. The sorta stuff that makes you leave the store red faced. :-p
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I have changed the "underwear outside their tights" phrase to "in their spandex uniforms."
Segev, if I may make one suggestion: It may help to instead have an in-game image of a female CoH character to provide a stronger counter-point to the second B&S image?
I would need somebody to provide such an image. I hesitate to do a google image search on the off chance I grab something incorrect, and am not good at taking in-game shots even if I did have it installed right now to get on.
But I would be happy to include one! Please find one that is not particularly "stripperiffic," obviously!
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Give me a moment or three and I'll have something for you, Segev. I've got a good Golden Age heroine costume that should work.
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Here's a new draft of the press release. If I missed any corrections, please repeat them. Thanks to SithRose for the image of her heroine, used to attempt to better contrast a female Hero against the B&S lingerie model.
NCSoft to Customers: "We Are No Longer Producing Comics For Your Kids; We Hope They Enjoy Their New Subscription to Playboy!"
City of Heroes is, according to the official announcement that was the shocking first word of its impending closure, the "first and greatest" superhero online role-playing game. Employees of the studio producing its content and fans alike were stunned by the announcement from NCSoft, the company which publishes and owns the Intellectual Property rights to this family-friendly comic-book themed game, because by all measures it was a profitable product that more than pulled its own weight.
Explanation from NCSoft cites a "realignment of company focus" that was incompatible with City of Heroes. What is the new focus? In June of 2012, they released in Korea a new game called Blade and Soul, prominently advertising the art and style done by Hyung-Tae Kim in designing all of the visuals, particularly graphical exaggeration of the female characters that is extreme even by the standards of the Korean "manwha" style that already emphasizes their sexuality. Though the release date of this new game in the West is yet to be announced, it will almost certainly come in the fiscal year which starts with the final shutdown of the servers for City of Heroes (on Nov. 30, 2012).
As one person observed, it seems this realignment of focus is to replace this:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/b1hY1s3D7sDfYjKXVnc-f6IeA-t6_ZraCtNL5UhnPnsc3kedSCUIn4Qh7jUyOfl2hEgOP-TM8FM)
...with this:
(https://i.imgur.com/80RcX.jpg)
While comic books have always had a spotty reputation with regards to their heroines' state of (un)dress, they have also had a reputation for wholesome messages and even the most swimsuit-model-esq super heroine was still an empowering figure, inspiring many girls as much as the muscle-bound heroes with their spandex uniforms inspired boys to fight for truth and justice. Even four-color villains are good, clean, cathartic fun, with plans so over-the-top that they're only taken seriously in a fictionalized context.
In the choices for which games to open and which to close in NCSoft's "realignment," some are concerned that they close the family-friendly game which attracts and empowers girl gamers as well as boys even as they open a salacious new title that objectifies women in extreme and unrealistic ways.
One blogger wrote (http://littledinobug.blogspot.ca/2012/10/breasts-and-camels.html), "As a parent, I will not be buying this game. I do not want my children exposed to this kind of material. I had no problems with them playing City of Heroes/Villains, but I refuse to allow them to even get a glimpse of this game. I'm far from a prude, but this is just too far." Her blog referenced these two images, created by a fan of City of Heroes to emphasize the point:
(https://i.imgur.com/wreWf.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/3aU9P.jpg)
City of Heroes brings together fathers and sons; one player is particularly upset because he had to recently ground his child from the internet, which means they will likely miss their last chances to enjoy this game together.
Another player has cited the game as the only place she and her father (who is fighting cancer) can really spend time together. "I really hope we save this game because he loves it sooooo much and he doesn't get to see me except on it most of the time," she wrote in a forum post on a site (http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/board,134.0.html) dedicated to saving their game, "I don't live down the street and haven't had a car in years. This is the world we connect in and where he's a hero, not sick."
The sentiments from those who use this game as a community to connect with family and bridge the generation gap seem unanimous: comic books are a great way to bond, but this "soft-core porn" (as one player termed it) sends them, at best, "to their bunk." "What?" said one player somewhat shamefacedly, "It's evil, but it's sexy evil."
It is clear, however, that City of Heroes is, to its players, more than a game. It is a community. A community that crosses gender and generational lines in a way that would be inappropriate to impossible for them to share with the new "realigned" focus of NCSoft's products designed to be enjoyed but a narrower and more grown-up masculine demographic...in private.
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The first link's broken. You can copy those screenshots wherever works best for you. (We aren't going to mention that she's actually a Power-path Praetorian who went Villain. :)
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Well, here's some I have right now.
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p207/P51mus/HeraldOfMetal.jpg
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p207/P51mus/HeraldOfMetalspikes.jpg
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p207/P51mus/CrabPrincess.jpg
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p207/P51mus/JoltingJoules.jpg
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p207/P51mus/DJPheme.jpg
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p207/P51mus/Pitho.jpg
I have the original screenshots of all but the crab princess one. Of course, could easily take another shot with her.
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Her visual is all that's needed. Fixed the link; I'll do some edit work to crop the image down a bit tomorrow.
Any volunteers to send out this press release? I'd really prefer this one came from somebody other than me, as I'm planning to send out a second.
I can, however, just send them both together if I need to. (I'll have to add some contact information and the like, in any event, so it might be for the best. It will lack the one-two punch I hope for, but for all I know my thoughts on the one-two punch are foolish. And time is becoming of the essence on the Media Day one.)
Well, here's some I have right now
Oh! More options! I'll work on getting one that is the closest to being "promotional" style tomorrow.
As before, if there are any last-minute suggestions, please share them. I am likely to make final adjustments and post for a final look-through less than an hour before I actually do the send-out, barring somebody else being willing to take over the send-out task on this one.
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Awesome! This is one of many, many things I love about this community. :D
Segev, you probably already have some great pictures there, but as requested all the same, a female hero in as good an action shot as I could get.
Standard issue tanker hitting a Rikti Chief Mesmerist:
http://imageshack.us/a/img818/666/kittyclysm1.jpg
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Here's some more. Including a couple that - although sexy, aren't nearly as exploitative.
(https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v28/Logan_Darklighter/City%20of%20Heroes/Lora_lai_09_20_12_zpsa521ee62.jpg)
(https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v28/Logan_Darklighter/City%20of%20Heroes/Mythbuster_Kari_Steampunk_02.jpg)
(https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v28/Logan_Darklighter/City%20of%20Heroes/Skye_over_Talos.jpg)
An example of the female walk.
(https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v28/Logan_Darklighter/City%20of%20Heroes/Karawalk03.jpg)
And by the way - remember that some of our signature characters are also quite attractive, and yet in NO WAY as distorted or ridiculous as those in Boobs and Shame!
(https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v28/Logan_Darklighter/City%20of%20Heroes/Ghost_Widow_screen_01.jpg)
And of course, a classic "Flag" Suit.
(https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v28/Logan_Darklighter/City%20of%20Heroes/LastGleaming.jpg)
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And has all kinds of "Bizarre evil cults which will corrupt our children!" in it. (Circle of Thorns, Banished Pantheon...Freakshow...ALL of Dark Astoria...)
... Except the players fight against those cults. :)
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(https://i.imgur.com/80RcX.jpg)
Yep... NC is trying to 'realign' something alright.
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(https://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h232/victoriavictrix/SeraWings3.jpg)
My beloved, favorite avatar, my fire tank.
(https://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h232/victoriavictrix/VickieArmor.jpg)
And my namesake, first character ever.
Larry's response to the first You Tube video was, and I quote "Holy sh*t. Astonishing." And he didn't mean it in any sort of a good way.
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Will admit I have always had a soft spot for Ghost Widow...
Although I will admit, that some of the *other* shoots that the person has done in the past, are, well... shall we say, for the over 18's only?
Wait... what... Who? Other shoots? What are we talking about here? You lost me.
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Oh - and proof positive - as if any were needed - that you can do a tasteful, respectful female character using Korean motifs and symbology without crazy stupid exaggeration of anatomy.
(https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v28/Logan_Darklighter/City%20of%20Heroes/screenshot_2006-10-14-04-44-08.jpg)
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I like it when my toons look good, of course. But i never created one that should fall on her nose when she walks because her front is too heavy. The proportions there are just wrong and i surely never would play a toon like that. And the walk is just ridiculous. My Defenders wear a short skirt or something a bit sexy too, but they don`t stand in the first line. I think what she wears must reflect what she does a bit, so the lonely scrapper i have wears body armor of course. Blade an Soul is not a game i would like to play, solely for the way females look there. I like to chat, but not, hm i`m lacking the right word i think, being hit upon? I had a bit of that when i played an entertainer in SWG, and didn`t like it at all. But then it was rare that a real woman was behind the toon. I remember the silence when i joined team speak for the first time. :roll:
I like to choose myself how my toon looks. So no, I will never touch Blade and Soul, thank you. >:(
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*COUGHS*She Kicks High (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Jfzh2s3jlE)*COUGHS*
I take it nobody caught my reference earlier then?
*snickers* Ah, Kasumi... she kicks high indeed... though the same could've already been said about Streetfighter's Chun-Li... =P
And nope, I didn't get it - I doubt that commercial ever made it over here, and even if it did, I cancelled my cable years ago.
I see what you mean though!
OMG that soooo didn't read properly in my head the first time. O.O :-X O>:-)
LOL!
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Oh - and proof positive - as if any were needed - that you can do a tasteful, respectful female character using Korean motifs and symbology without crazy stupid exaggeration of anatomy.
Ah yes of course! Mirror Spirit - who, lest we forget, was added to the game specifically for the Korean launch.
So then, are we also to assume this "realignment of company focus" incorporates the following change in the representation of Korean culture to the west?
(https://i.imgur.com/4xB4l.jpg)
Does it mean the image at left "...no longer fits with our long-term goals for the company"?
This whole thing just gets seedier and seedier doesn't it? I wonder if the Korean press are aware of the Mirror Spirit representation of their country's iconography in CoH, and how NCSoft are getting rid of that portrayal in the west in favour of...well, whatever that creature in the right image is?
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Ah yes of course! Mirror Spirit - who, lest we forget, was added to the game specifically for the Korean launch.
So then, are we also to assume this "realignment of company focus" incorporates the following change in the representation of Korean culture to the west?
(https://i.imgur.com/4xB4l.jpg)
Does it mean the image at left "...no longer fits with our long-term goals for the company"?
This whole thing just gets seedier and seedier doesn't it? I wonder if the Korean press are aware of the Mirror Spirit representation of their country's iconography in CoH, and how NCSoft are getting rid of that portrayal in the west in favour of...well, whatever that creature in the right image is?
Given how standard those games are there, and the popularity of the artist... they just might consider it a good thing.
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The Blade & Soul imagery of the woman's body offends me. In my opinion, it appears completely unnatural and, as many have pointed out so without the realms of biological proportions.
Shame on NCSoft if they feel that they need to lower themselves to such levels to sell a game. The translation I'm gleaming from this is: "Our stories aren't going to be all that great, but come and look at these objectified women in all their perverse glory."
Not only did City of Heroes NOT have to portray women in these semi-pornographic (and I'm using "semi" loosely here) manners, but their incredibly well-thought-out stories, rich with details carried the game to new heights.
At first I was just disappointed and saddened to know that our beloved Paragon Studio pals lost their jobs and we were losing our game... but now I'm downright angry. >:(
And I mourn for our world's youth and the visuals that will be assaulting their impressionable minds. "Let's lower the value of our world's women and take something beautiful (the human body) and grotesquely reshape it to meet our disgusting 'needs'."
Of course, I'm sure they're (NCSoft) is grateful for this thread... because we're offering them free advertising.
"There is no such thing as bad publicity except your own obituary." - Brendan Behan.
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(https://i.imgur.com/oljA1.jpg)
Here's a nice Golden Age look as well.
My Empath Terrana Nightside.
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Yeah I'm playing around in the character creator, and even with Chest Slider max and Waist slider Min...the female character looks just like your average barbie doll.
And of course I can't take a screenie of it. :(
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Given how standard those games are there, and the popularity of the artist... they just might consider it a good thing.
Some elements of society, certainly - but there's no doubt that on many levels, Korean culture is still far more conservative than western culture. Teenage boys both in Korea and the west may be drooling onehandedly over Blade & Soul, but what about the rest of our respective societies?
And I mourn for our world's youth and the visuals that will be assaulting their impressionable minds. "Let's lower the value of our world's women and take something beautiful (the human body) and grotesquely reshape it to meet our disgusting 'needs'."
Of course, I'm sure they're (NCSoft) is grateful for this thread... because we're offering them free advertising.
"There is no such thing as bad publicity except your own obituary." - Brendan Behan.
"You must pursue this investigation of Watergate even if it leads to the president. I'm innocent. You've got to believe I'm innocent. If you don't, take my job." - Richard Nixon
Sometimes, bad publicity is bad publicity after all ;)
Reading what both Knightslayer and Soundtrack say leads me to another interesting "Hmm..." point though - youth and maturity.
Of all the MMOs I've played, CoH has without a doubt the highest proportion of 'mature' players, by which I mean not just people over 18, but in many cases waaaay over 18.
And ironically, Blade and Soul will likely have a 'M' rating, but I've no doubt at all that a large percentage of the playerbase will be under 18s who shouldn't be playing the game at all.
It just goes to show that large corporations are no respecters of culture of any age - on the one hand they're insulting adults by killing a game with a mature demographic and behaving like a pouty child who's taken away his ball to bury it so no one else can have it, and on the other, they're peddling softcore porn they know underage children will play, all the while hiding behind a ratings shield and laughing as they count the coins those kids have forked over.
*laughs*
That's three (at least) moral denouncements I've made about NCSoft in this thread now. It was never my intention to become some sort of moralistic crusader...but unfortunately, the more I look at NCSoft (and Blade and Soul in particular) the more I feel myself turning into one. It's hard not to really, isn't it? :-\
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Here is one of the skimpiest outfits out of any of my characters...
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=www.wingedscarab.com%2Fra%2Fmaaseruat.png)
Mainly because monstrous legs can't wear skirts.
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I think the skimpiest is the "Hearts Plus" I have on my Arch/TA Corr...
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Oh let's not forget ol Flower Knight! From the Heroic Tutorial!
(https://i.imgur.com/GkLsY.jpg)
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Great work, everybody! There are so many pictures that it'd difficult to choose, but I will pick one-and-only-one for that "replacing this:" slot before the "...with this:" slot, just to keep the message as to-the-point as possible.
I won't be using the side-by-side of the very nicely done Korean-style heroine next to the "with this" replacement in this message, but I think we might be well-served by having somebody do a slight re-working of this press release for the Korean press that uses that exact image. The variant press release should replace the emphasis on empowering-vs-objectifying women with an emphasis on degradation of the culture and how Korea's Face is presented to the West.
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Great work, everybody! There are so many pictures that it'd difficult to choose, but I will pick one-and-only-one for that "replacing this:" slot before the "...with this:" slot, just to keep the message as to-the-point as possible.
I won't be using the side-by-side of the very nicely done Korean-style heroine next to the "with this" replacement in this message, but I think we might be well-served by having somebody do a slight re-working of this press release for the Korean press that uses that exact image. The variant press release should replace the emphasis on empowering-vs-objectifying women with an emphasis on degradation of the culture and how Korea's Face is presented to the West.
Exactly! Anybody else notice the extreme irony that OUR game, a WESTERN game, was MORE respectful of the idea of an Asian woman than ANY of their games?
Add that idea into your press release, eh?
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Well gee, NC really picked the right season in which to drop this on us. Halloween is right around the corner, the centerpiece of one of my biggest pet peeves.
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=24.media.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_mao8khfU091qckajeo1_1280.jpg)
Metaphorically, the last company that made REAL costumes for women has now closed up shop.
And suddenly I have this idea in my head for a mock article about Icon being bought out and dissolved by Leg Avenue.
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Semi-related, I was very pleased to see a French Maid costume (at a large retail chain with a name ending in "Mart") in sizes well into the double digits. The model on the package was probably a size 14 or 16, and it was an attractive costume. It was still suggestive, but far less trashy. I think that says a lot about prevailing sentiment, if that's what's at the big chains.
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Some of you may be familiar with The Big Picture. Here's a link to a very germane post from that vlog. I like to rewatch this one from time to time just to remind myself to be fair to my creations of both genders.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/the-big-picture/4719-Gender-Games
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Thought you might also be vaguely interested in seeing this one, Downix:
http://gomakemeasandwich.wordpress.com/2011/09/21/blade-and-soul-youre-doing-it-wrong/
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Was mentioning the thread last night to the wife and I used the phrase 'kung-fu pornography' to describe this stuff. Summed it up pretty well yes?
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Thought you might also be vaguely interested in seeing this one, Downix:
http://gomakemeasandwich.wordpress.com/2011/09/21/blade-and-soul-youre-doing-it-wrong/
I just ran across it like 2 minutes ago!
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Well gee, NC really picked the right season in which to drop this on us. Halloween is right around the corner, the centerpiece of one of my biggest pet peeves.
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=24.media.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_mao8khfU091qckajeo1_1280.jpg)
Metaphorically, the last company that made REAL costumes for women has now closed up shop.
And suddenly I have this idea in my head for a mock article about Wentworth's being bought out and dissolved by Leg Avenue.
Nice post, TimtheEnchanter, and I really like the point of that cartoon. Looks like this thread is devoted to comparing and contrasting Cityof with Blade&Soul. I think it more likely that NCSoft is predicting a higher Return on Investment (ROI) from B&S than continuing Paragon Studios/CoX. It's entirely possible that the artwork in B&S is personally more aesthetically pleasing to the NCSoft decision-makers; however, I'll continue to assert my opinion that it's ROI driving this decision.
While we continue to debate here whether CoH or B&S depicts women as sexy (often while being warriors simulaneously)--I think the answer is Yes, they both do!-- Hence I don't find this argument persuasive (that NCSoft is axing wholesome, family-friendly PG-Teen CoX for "pornographic" B&S.) Porn is in the eye of the beholder and informed by cultural values & aesthetics; e.g., compare say the images of Mirror Spirit and the Flower Knight (both of which I've always liked) to the images of Praetor Tilman in the cutscene during BAF (friggin' hawt, i say!) or even the image of newest Freedom Phalanx member Penelope Yin one sees during Log In.
For that matter, we could speculate (and maybe some already have) that NCSoft's decision was driven by current anti-U.S. sentiment, that CoH even with Statesman dead looked too American, takes place (fictionally) in the U.S. and that this was hurting the company's global positioning. I don't for a minute believe that, but we could speculate about it. ;-) [note: I'd rather we didn't.]
Instead, I'd like to offer a Realignment of COMMUNITY Effort aka. my latest crazy thoughts about how to save the game while making breakfast. Here goes: while we are each committed to saving CoH (our collective investment of time, creativity and some money) and while I'd like to see these efforts continue, TonyV or Mr W (or anyone else for that matter) what about the idea of the Community reaching out to Formerly-Known-As-Paragon-Studios aka our development team and seeing if the entreprenuerial interest in acquring the IP from NCSoft (that I gather was rebuffed) could instead to used to back a newly formed studio. Sure, it would mean a total start over and likely months with no Paragon Studios MMO; however, we know and trust this development team and they know what we want in an MMO and listen to the community. While it could at best be similar it could not be identical or draw on CoH Lore, but it's possible a re-rolled MMO by the dev team we've come trust would surpassed CoH since (imo) the Studio was at its creative peak and this peak could possibly be the launching point of a new MMO by this remarkable team.
Flame away if you must if what I'm proposing is heresy.
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Some of you may be familiar with The Big Picture. Here's a link to a very germane post from that vlog. I like to rewatch this one from time to time just to remind myself to be fair to my creations of both genders.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/the-big-picture/4719-Gender-Games
I'll extract the most pertinent part in text for the benefit of those on lower-bandwidth connections. (I got you covered, V.V.)
Poses, especially default stances or hero poses, become incredibly important. Or at least they do for characters who are men.
When you look at an official still or even an idle stance for a male character in a video game or comic or cartoon or whatever, said male character's poise and comportment are usually carefully set up so as to convey or imply a specific attitude in the moment captured.
[Enumeration of visual examples snipped from excerpt.]
Everything about Marcus Fenix always implies "I've been through Hell, which means I'll get through this." Why is Nathan Drake typically depicted grinning like an idiot while about to do something dangerous? Because it implies "Chill out. I got this."
Women in games, however, tend to pose or be posed a little differently. While the men get lots of poses with lots of implications, the quote-unquote "sexy ladies" of games get poses that all have the same implication. Namely, the implication that there is a full-length mirror somewhere just outside the frame and they are checking themselves out. Or rather, that would be the implication if we didn't all know what was actually going on.
Seriously. Game makers, cut this [pancake] out. It's not fair to female characters, and it's not fair to contemporary female humans...who comprise some 50% of your potential market.
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Instead, I'd like to offer a Realignment of COMMUNITY Effort aka. my latest crazy thoughts about how to save the game while making breakfast. Here goes: while we are each committed to saving CoH (our collective investment of time, creativity and some money) and while I'd like to see these efforts continue, TonyV or Mr W (or anyone else for that matter) what about the idea of the Community reaching out to Formerly-Known-As-Paragon-Studios aka our development team and seeing if the entreprenuerial interest in acquring the IP from NCSoft (that I gather was rebuffed) could instead to used to back a newly formed studio. Sure, it would mean a total start over and likely months with no Paragon Studios MMO; however, we know and trust this development team and they know what we want in an MMO and listen to the community. While it could at best be similar it could not be identical or draw on CoH Lore, but it's possible a re-rolled MMO by the dev team we've come trust would surpassed CoH since (imo) the Studio was at its creative peak and this peak could possibly be the launching point of a new MMO by this remarkable team.
I would be aok with this, and would lend any of my skills necessary to help out here. I do think this might be a bit premature, but once the employment contract ends for them on November 1st, it might be possible.
Plan Z of course would only be there if there was no way to salvage the studio itself. If they can be saved, even if apart from CoH itself, my effort goes to their flag.
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Something else everyone here needs to see, if they haven't already.
'Female Armor Sucks" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTGh0EMmMC8
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Instead, I'd like to offer a Realignment of COMMUNITY Effort aka. my latest crazy thoughts about how to save the game while making breakfast. Here goes: while we are each committed to saving CoH (our collective investment of time, creativity and some money) and while I'd like to see these efforts continue, TonyV or Mr W (or anyone else for that matter) what about the idea of the Community reaching out to Formerly-Known-As-Paragon-Studios aka our development team and seeing if the entreprenuerial interest in acquring the IP from NCSoft (that I gather was rebuffed) could instead to used to back a newly formed studio. Sure, it would mean a total start over and likely months with no Paragon Studios MMO; however, we know and trust this development team and they know what we want in an MMO and listen to the community. While it could at best be similar it could not be identical or draw on CoH Lore, but it's possible a re-rolled MMO by the dev team we've come trust would surpassed CoH since (imo) the Studio was at its creative peak and this peak could possibly be the launching point of a new MMO by this remarkable team.
This cannot be done until November 1st at the very earliest. Due to California state law, the 60 days severance considers the former devs to be NCSoft employees until the end of the severance package OR until they find a new job, whichever comes first. This means that currently, ANYTHING they do in the MMO industry is the property of NCSoft. They have stated flatly that they CANNOT consider another independent project until November 1st, because if they started it before then it would belong to NCSoft.
If they choose to do this, the majority of people involved in Plan Z would pack up our toys, hand them to the former Paragons, and say "Here, this is what we've got so far, use what works and toss what doesn't, we'd like to help if you can use our skills."
Plan Z as is would involve forming a completely new studio without any of the Paragon developer assets. I'd really rather have the Paragon devs on board, even if it means that I get tossed out of the creation process. ;) (OK, I'd be a little sad about that last part. I admit it. But I'd rather have their experience running the show. MUCH more likely to get solid results, not to mention funding. :)
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They have stated flatly that they CANNOT consider another independent project until November 1st, because if they started it before then it would belong to NCSoft.
Wait... so you can get fired from a company, but still belong to them? WTH?
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Wait... so you can get fired from a company, but still belong to them? WTH?
Severance package for being laid off - means you're still getting paid by them, which means you're still under contract to them. (Being laid off is not legally the same as being fired. No, seriously. It's not the same thing. Ask your local unemployment insurance people.)
California has some interesting employment laws. That's the extremely short version of something far more complicated that a person with actual legal knowledge would be able to explain in much more detail.
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Wait... so you can get fired from a company, but still belong to them? WTH?
yes, fun times isn't it?
I was fired by one company and my employment contract blocked me from working on websites for 2 years. Had to turn to retail sales....
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Severance package for being laid off - means you're still getting paid by them, which means you're still under contract to them. (Being laid off is not legally the same as being fired. No, seriously. It's not the same thing. Ask your local unemployment insurance people.)
California has some interesting employment laws. That's the extremely short version of something far more complicated that a person with actual legal knowledge would be able to explain in much more detail.
But isn't the point of a severance package to keep you alive long enough to find a new job? Seems kinda pointless if you can't get a new job until after the package terminates.
(Anyway, end-of-derail after that question)
yes, fun times isn't it?
I was fired by one company and my employment contract blocked me from working on websites for 2 years. Had to turn to retail sales....
That'll remind me to give the finger to anyone who ever gives me that kind of an offer. Already had all my skills rendered worthless once by the economy crash. No way I'm intentionally putting myself at that kind of risk a second time. If I wanted to go through that kind of BS, I'd go on Iron Chef.
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Those are called "Non Competition Contracts" And where *I* live, in Canada, they're illegal. I was made to sign one at my last place of employment. Well guess what, according to Human Resources and Development Canada, Those are not worth the paper they're written on.
Sucks for Paragon Studios though :(
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Instead, I'd like to offer a Realignment of COMMUNITY Effort aka. my latest crazy thoughts about how to save the game while making breakfast. Here goes: while we are each committed to saving CoH (our collective investment of time, creativity and some money) and while I'd like to see these efforts continue, TonyV or Mr W (or anyone else for that matter) what about the idea of the Community reaching out to Formerly-Known-As-Paragon-Studios aka our development team and seeing if the entreprenuerial interest in acquring the IP from NCSoft (that I gather was rebuffed) could instead to used to back a newly formed studio. Sure, it would mean a total start over and likely months with no Paragon Studios MMO; however, we know and trust this development team and they know what we want in an MMO and listen to the community. While it could at best be similar it could not be identical or draw on CoH Lore, but it's possible a re-rolled MMO by the dev team we've come trust would surpassed CoH since (imo) the Studio was at its creative peak and this peak could possibly be the launching point of a new MMO by this remarkable team.
Flame away if you must if what I'm proposing is heresy.
No flaming whatsoever from me, I think you're absolutely right - it is all about money, or ROI as you called it - from what I can tell B&S is huge on the Korean market, and they expect it'll be the same here too - and honestly, why shouldn't they? Isn't it the West itself that came up with the phrase "Sex sells"?
I half suspect that most of NCSoft's headhonchos don't even play games, so they're not likely to have a personal stake in which games stay, nor do I think they hold anti-American sentiments.
And I also fully believe that backing a reborn Paragon Studios project would be a very good thing, these people have years of experience, they've braved the rocky roads of the MMO industry and all the pitfalls that come with it.
There is not a single doubt in my mind that their new project would do things right from the start, opposed to City of Heroes that took years to get where it is now. (which hurts like hell, seeing so many things fall into place... especially with all the stuff that was coming with i24... and then the plug got pulled...)
Hopefully this time around they also won't make the mistake of splitting up the Euro and US servers, which last time was such a huge waste of potential... (not to mention most MMO's have now also learned that lesson, SWTOR and GW2 both let you play on either set of servers without needing two accounts - another thing which CoH remedied not that long ago).
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Those are called "Non Competition Contracts" And where *I* live, in Canada, they're illegal. I was made to sign one at my last place of employment. Well guess what, according to Human Resources and Development Canada, Those are not worth the paper they're written on.
Actually, no-compete clauses are illegal in California as well. The only exceptions are a few special cases involving people with a direct stake in the company (i.e. partial ownership), which AFAIK, nobody at Paragon had.
Now there can be restrictions on severances as to whether or not they get to claim the full amount of the severance pay, but that could also be looked at as still being employed by NCSoft -- just being paid to do nothing until the contract runs out.
Once that is complete and fully paid out, then they have significantly more options.
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Yeah I'm playing around in the character creator, and even with Chest Slider max and Waist slider Min...the female character looks just like your average barbie doll.
And of course I can't take a screenie of it. :(
In order to take a screenshot from the costume creator, you can hit the "Print Screen/SysRq" button on the keyboard, open a graphics editor (even MS Paint will work) and paste the image into the editor.
That being said, if you end up with just a black square, try switching your game to Windowed mode prior to opening the costume creator and grabbing your image. I've noticed I have to do that on my new desktop. Not sure if it's related to the graphics card or that I'm running under Windows 7 now whereas I was running under Windows XP before.
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Not only that, but something that *still* plagued CoX since the server list merge was that the serial codes were *still* region locked for accounts/perks/time codes. This is why as soon as the announcement came out for the closure of the game, I was unable to get a game box set to "upgrade" my account to VIP again. The *last* box that we EU guys had was Good Vs Evil. That was almost 6 years ago. And I had already bought it, along with CoH (Collectors, there was no basic version) and I had the collectors edition of CoV as well (and you cannot apply a *basic* code to a collectors edition, but you can do the reverse
SWG from the very beginning allowed Europe to play in the Americas and viceversa.
Was a pretty good deal too, not just because there's no practical point to 'segregating' servers. But it also had the benefit that even people who had to play at hours that were odd for their time zone, could still find a large population to play with. I've always been a late-night owl, so most of my playtime happened with folks on the other side of the pond.
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SWG from the very beginning allowed Europe to play in the Americas and viceversa.
Was a pretty good deal too, not just because there's no practical point to 'segregating' servers. But it also had the benefit that even people who had to play at hours that were odd for their time zone, could still find a large population to play with. I've always been a late-night owl, so most of my playtime happened with folks on the other side of the pond.
Even Ultima Online did that. You could pick between EU and US servers (I think it listed the origin of the server between brackets after its name).
Then at some point every MMO suddenly decided to go racist and force us all into our own regions. =P
(I suspect WoW might have been that evildoer, since it has the split system and every MMO out there is all too eager to mimmick them - "monkey see, monkey do!").
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Here's my latest draft. Barring objections, I think we should send it out today!
NCSoft to Customers: "We Are No Longer Producing Comics For Your Kids; We Hope They Enjoy Their New Subscription to Playboy!"
City of Heroes is, according to the official announcement that was the shocking first word of its impending closure, the "first and greatest" superhero online role-playing game. Employees of the studio producing its content and fans alike were stunned by the announcement from NCSoft, the company which publishes and owns the Intellectual Property rights to this family-friendly comic-book themed game, because by all measures it was a profitable product that more than pulled its own weight.
Explanation from NCSoft cites a "realignment of company focus" that was incompatible with City of Heroes. What is the new focus? In June of 2012, they released in Korea a new game called Blade and Soul, prominently advertising the art and style done by Hyung-Tae Kim in designing all of the visuals, particularly graphical exaggeration of the female characters that is extreme even by the standards of the Korean "manwha" style that already emphasizes their sexuality. Though the release date of this new game in the West is yet to be announced, it will almost certainly come in the fiscal year which starts with the final shutdown of the servers for City of Heroes (on Nov. 30, 2012).
As one person observed, it seems this realignment of focus is to replace this:
(https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v28/Logan_Darklighter/City%20of%20Heroes/LastGleaming.jpg)(https://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h232/victoriavictrix/VickieArmor.jpg)
...with this:
(https://i.imgur.com/80RcX.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/y8zPS.jpg)
While comic books have always had a spotty reputation with regards to their heroines' state of (un)dress, they have also had a reputation for wholesome messages and even the most swimsuit-model-esq super heroine was still an empowering figure, inspiring many girls as much as the muscle-bound heroes with their spandex uniforms inspired boys to fight for truth and justice. Even four-color villains are good, clean, cathartic fun, with plans so over-the-top that they're only taken seriously in a fictionalized context.
In the choices for which games to open and which to close in NCSoft's "realignment," some are concerned that they close the family-friendly game which attracts and empowers girl gamers as well as boys even as they open a salacious new title that objectifies women in extreme and unrealistic ways.
One blogger wrote (http://littledinobug.blogspot.ca/2012/10/breasts-and-camels.html), "As a parent, I will not be buying this game. I do not want my children exposed to this kind of material. I had no problems with them playing City of Heroes/Villains, but I refuse to allow them to even get a glimpse of this game. I'm far from a prude, but this is just too far." Her blog referenced these two images, created by a fan of City of Heroes to emphasize the point:
(https://i.imgur.com/wreWf.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/3aU9P.jpg)
City of Heroes brings together fathers and sons; one player is particularly upset because he had to recently ground his child from the internet, which means they will likely miss their last chances to enjoy this game together.
Another player has cited the game as the only place she and her father (who is fighting cancer) can really spend time together. "I really hope we save this game because he loves it sooooo much and he doesn't get to see me except on it most of the time," she wrote in a forum post on a site (http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/board,134.0.html) dedicated to saving their game, "I don't live down the street and haven't had a car in years. This is the world we connect in and where he's a hero, not sick."
The sentiments from those who use this game as a community to connect with family and bridge the generation gap seem unanimous: comic books are a great way to bond, but this "soft-core porn" (as one player termed it) sends them, at best, "to their bunk." "What?" said one player somewhat shamefacedly, "It's evil, but it's sexy evil."
It is clear, however, that City of Heroes is, to its players, more than a game. It is a community. A community that crosses gender and generational lines in a way that would be inappropriate to impossible for them to share with the new "realigned" focus of NCSoft's products designed to be enjoyed but a narrower and - NCSoft doubtless would claim - more grown-up masculine demographic...in private.
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That being said, if you end up with just a black square, try switching your game to Windowed mode prior to opening the costume creator and grabbing your image. I've noticed I have to do that on my new desktop. Not sure if it's related to the graphics card or that I'm running under Windows 7 now whereas I was running under Windows XP before.
The black screen is a Windows 7 thing; it has to do with the desktop compositing IIRC, and using graphical overlays to speed up OpenGL content.
I've always had good success with the capture tool in GIMP being able to take screenshots even if PrintScreen didn't work.
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I've always had good success with the capture tool in GIMP being able to take screenshots even if PrintScreen didn't work.
I have GIMP on the new PC (my version of Photoshop is old enough that I can't install it on Windows 7), but I'm not intimately familiar with all of it's functions yet. I'll have to see if I can figure that one out.
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eabrace, look for the GimpShop front end, it will change the gimp GUI to something closer to photoshop which may be of help to you.
Segev, I would suggest resizing the pictures some, just to make them a bit smaller unless the final format is going to flow a better.
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Resizing the pictures is a good idea. Right now, I'm grabbing them as links from wherever they are. My next move is to make a Word Doc out of this for attachment to email; I'll resize them for that and try to save them in that size as .png files so I can re-link them from my own web space. After a Word doc, I will attempt to make a .html version, but my html skills are limited, so I'll have to ask for aid in re-framing it to be professional-looking in that format.
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Small note, the Colorado shooter was a self-admitted centrist, and reading what material he posted I believe him.
But yes, let us keep on topic. I am figuring out an angle to see if I can get an approval from my boss. She aok'd my World of Warcraft article earlier today, (an attack on a woman running for office, claiming she had a double life for having a level 68 Rogue....) so is wary of yet another game article.
And don't forget the other game-and-politics story, that one of the diplomats killed in Libya must have been a CIA spy, because he went by the code name "Vile Rat" in a mysterious computer network called "EVE Online". I wish I was making that up.
:(
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Resizing the pictures is a good idea. Right now, I'm grabbing them as links from wherever they are. My next move is to make a Word Doc out of this for attachment to email; I'll resize them for that and try to save them in that size as .png files so I can re-link them from my own web space. After a Word doc, I will attempt to make a .html version, but my html skills are limited, so I'll have to ask for aid in re-framing it to be professional-looking in that format.
Just an FYI, after inserting the images into Word, check the file size. I have found working in Word (done daily) that some image types can make for a huge file dize that is difficult to open/email. If you're sending this to media outlets via email, the recipients may be restricted in filesizes they receive. This helps to stave off possible virus-laden emails.
.doc, .docx, and .exe files also get tagged by businesses. Image files may also be tagged.
It's a problem I have at work. Even links in emails can send an awaited email to my spambox.
If we want the message to get through and not lost to the spamfilter.
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One of the OP's caption images seems to no longer be working correctly when linked to.
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Just an FYI, after inserting the images into Word, check the file size. I have found working in Word (done daily) that some image types can make for a huge file dize that is difficult to open/email. If you're sending this to media outlets via email, the recipients may be restricted in filesizes they receive. This helps to stave off possible virus-laden emails.
.doc, .docx, and .exe files also get tagged by businesses. Image files may also be tagged.
It's a problem I have at work. Even links in emails can send an awaited email to my spambox.
If we want the message to get through and not lost to the spamfilter.
Is there a file format that is better to use to send this than .doc, that it won't get auto-filtered?
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Is there a file format that is better to use to send this than .doc, that it won't get auto-filtered?
I'd suggest PDF.
Gimp exports to PDF files.
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.pdf works! I'll use that.
Does anybody have the second of the two captioned images the OP created that they could put somewhere for me to grab? I didn't copy them to my HD earlier, and the one that has the B&S image with captions that finishes off the superhero one seems not to be working anymore.
edit: Never mind, found a way to get it to work.
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The press release (http://stormlord.us/NCSoft%20Realignment%20-%20Families%20of%20Heroes%20to%20Friedrick%27s%20of%20Hollywood.pdf) is now in .pdf format on my web space.
It's less than 600kB.
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The press release (http://stormlord.us/NCSoft%20Realignment%20-%20Families%20of%20Heroes%20to%20Friedrick%27s%20of%20Hollywood.pdf) is now in .pdf format on my web space.
It's less than 600kB.
So, uh, is it too late to point out a typo...? >.>
For some reason, I'm thinking "swimsuit-model-esque" would be the better spelling.
I'm glad to have something so presentable, though! If you're happy with it, maybe we can shop it around and see if someone picks it up.
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Change made, same link as before.
Please do shop it around! I am going afk for a few hours; if anybody at all wants to try sending it to people and media outlets, please feel free to do so! This is created for exactly that purpose. My one request is that anywhere you do send it, you give a link in the media contact methods (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1frrB_PNZtjI1YebP1HslDZhIPFz6HpvLxF00BW0LhlI/edit) google doc so I can follow it up with the media day invitation when I get that equally polished. Hopefully be no later than tomorrow!
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One last change, this one to the title. It's now "NCSoft Realignment: From Families of Heroes to Friedrick's of Hollywood."
Anybody have a good idea where to send this? If not, I'll work on it tonight.
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One last change, this one to the title. It's now "NCSoft Realignment: From Families of Heroes to Friedrick's of Hollywood."
Anybody have a good idea where to send this? If not, I'll work on it tonight.
Frederick's. :)
Typo again!
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One last change, this one to the title. It's now "NCSoft Realignment: From Families of Heroes to Friedrick's of Hollywood."
Anybody have a good idea where to send this? If not, I'll work on it tonight.
I hate to say it--in part because I know it's politically charged to so much as mention--but Fox News has been known to run blurbs on perceived salaciousness in video games. Someone else mentioned HuffPo, at the other end of the political spectrum.
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I hate to say it--in part because I know it's politically charged to so much as mention--but Fox News has been known to run blurbs on perceived salaciousness in video games. Someone else mentioned HuffPo, at the other end of the political spectrum.
You can link to my article to give them a "we're missing out on a scoop" angle if you wish.
I've been amused at the number of unicorns commenting on my piece too.
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Excuse me - could someone explain to me what you mean by "Unicorns"? Do you mean trolls?
This is a new usage of the word Unicorn I've not heard before about a week back. How did it come to be used? (I can take my answers in PM to avoid derailing the thread)
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Unicorns is a word that this forum uses. Whenever one makes a reference to a gangly green creature that typically lives under bridges and charges tolls for crossing, the word gets changed to Unicorn.
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Unicorns is a word that this forum uses. Whenever one makes a reference to a gangly green creature that typically lives under bridges and charges tolls for crossing, the word gets changed to Unicorn.
O_o o... kay...?
Why the change? If there's a joke here, I must be too dense to get it.
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O_o o... kay...?
Why the change? If there's a joke here, I must be too dense to get it.
I don't think anyone knows the answer to that besides TonyV. It gives me a chuckle every time I see it though.
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I hate to say it--in part because I know it's politically charged to so much as mention--but Fox News has been known to run blurbs on perceived salaciousness in video games. Someone else mentioned HuffPo, at the other end of the political spectrum.
There's nothing wrong with listing politically biased news sites - you'll not find any that SOMEBODY won't find biased.
You can link to my article to give them a "we're missing out on a scoop" angle if you wish.
I've been amused at the number of unicorns commenting on my piece too.
I've added a paragraph referencing your article, and changed the link a little. Please find it here (http://stormlord.us/NCSoft%20Realignment.pdf) now.
I also added myself as the callback contact. If somebody else would like to be, let me know and I'll change it.
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I sent a blurb to HuffPo with some links. If anyone can find a "submit a tip" link on Fox News' website, you're a better fox than I am.
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I sent a blurb to HuffPo with some links. If anyone can find a "submit a tip" link on Fox News' website, you're a better fox than I am.
foxnewstips@foxnews.com
I've got a few links for this listed on this google doc (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1frrB_PNZtjI1YebP1HslDZhIPFz6HpvLxF00BW0LhlI/edit).
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foxnewstips@foxnews.com
I've got a few links for this listed on this google doc (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1frrB_PNZtjI1YebP1HslDZhIPFz6HpvLxF00BW0LhlI/edit).
I knew it would only take a matter of minutes for the internet to showcase my incompetence. >.> So, have you sent Fox News your press release as a tip yet? It'd be a great start for a click-grabbing story by itself, with very little addition needed.
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I haven't. I've sent one to MSNBC. I will wait to let you do it if you like, or I can do it myself.
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I haven't. I've sent one to MSNBC. I will wait to let you do it if you like, or I can do it myself.
You're probably better at this than I am--it sounds like you have firsthand experience with this sort of thing already. :)
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This is the first time I've ever done anything like this ,but I'll keep at it and gain that first-hand experience.
I'm going to need it; I'm hoping to pull off that media day event, so I need to get THAT press release written after this one. And sent out. Tomorrow night.
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I'm going to need it; I'm hoping to pull off that media day event, so I need to get THAT press release written after this one. And sent out. Tomorrow night.
I'd say you're doing great so far. And making me feel a little lazy, too. ;)
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That is a *fascinating* approach to take.
It's also one that COULD be effective if taken in the right direction.
It could also backfire, badly. Bear in mind that COH also has COV, which encourages people to go out and actively be mean, nasty, evil bad guys. And has all kinds of "Bizarre evil cults which will corrupt our children!" in it. (Circle of Thorns, Banished Pantheon...Freakshow...ALL of Dark Astoria...)
I'm not certain that I'd trust Fox News not to just throw a negative spin on all of it. Bear in mind that I'm extremely cynical when it comes to dealing with right wing wacko fundamentalists, which happens to coincide with a not-insignificant portion of Fox's viewers. It's something that does have potential with a carefully chosen audience, though.
I think this is a good idea and clever as well but I agree with the above statement it could be good or it could go south real fast. Also I am not sure if NCSoft cares at all what Fox thinks. Many countries for along time have not understood why sex is such a big no no in America but violence is okay, frankly I agree. This also kind of seems like a dirty trick to me. We are taking something out of context, and is most likely not even the case, and than saying that NCSoft only cares about sex and selling sex. I am not a lawyer so I don't know for sure but I think that could be viewed as libel. I seriously doubt NCSoft said "City of Heroes doesn't have enough skimpy outfits in it, we want more skimpy outfits.....So can it." Like Sith said too if we do take this approach do we really want a company like Fox dealing with it? I just dont want our community getting painted as a group that is okay with Cults, Villains, Evil (Like Sith said) and Violence(Not like sith said I don't want to lump him in with my opinion) but not sex.
I just want to say I don't think its a bad idea at all and I am not trying to poke holes in it I just wanted to express my thoughts on it.
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Only going to go south if we keep trying to badmouth news outlets before they even look at us. Fox is no more sensationalist than MSNBC, CBS, or ABC. I've now sent it to MSNBC and Fox. Looking for CBS and ABC contact info.
Major blogs are also a good one to aim for. I'm not sure if the Huffington Post does anything BUT political commentary, though, so they may not care. Still, can't hurt.
I may even send it off to Rush Limbaugh; he might find it amusing enough to talk about. And in his case, simply talking about it will get attention. (He's known for slash-dotting things unintentionally just by talking about them.)
This really isn't a left-wing/right-wing issue, in that it covers concerns of both sides of the spectrum.
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That's true, Its not fair to pick out Fox from other news companies I retract that part. But the rest I stand by. I wasn't talking left or right wing problems my concern isn't that. Its that we are clearly taking their actions out of context. I just want to make sure we go about this approach the right way if we do at all. And do we really want to keep promoting the idea that violence is okay in America and not sex? I don't mean to get off topic but we should consider some things like that as well.
(That wasn't directed to you Segev it just sounds that way, I am not trying to be difficult I just really want to express my concerns)
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Remember that anyone can send a tip or a press release to any news outlet.
Many modern "journalists" are lazy. Give them something they can just copy verbatim and they will do so. That preserves our version of the spin.
Don't forget local newspapers. Submit to both the News departments and the Lifestyles department. With luck, you'll get the thing to run twice, once weekday, once weekend in Lifestyles.
Why should NCSoft care? Because their PR firm will pick up on this (it's their job to note every time their client is mentioned and keep track of these things) and they will see NCSoft is getting DOUBLE negative mention--once for canning family friendly game and once for a semi-porn game that they intend to push but hasn't even been released yet!
How can this make a difference? The PR firm (this is their job) and possibly the PR department at NCSoft itself will track back where all this is coming from. Which is here. And they KNOW what we want: we have been crystal clear on that. "Turn the IP loose, sell or lease it to someone who will support it, and we will shut up, turn off the negative press machine, and go away. Refuse to release the IP, and you can expect more...much more...of the same. For a very, very long time. This is going to create big problems for you in the West, and we will find a way to make it percolate into the East."
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Part of me wonders if THIS is the press release to try and get to Cobert?
If someone knows how to get his attention, I know its still political season but his spin on this issue might be exactly what we are looking for. We could also try or John Stewart but Cobert is absolutely brilliant IMO and might be able to find the perfect spin.
LOL and I see VV and I were posting at the same time again. :P
And yep sell u or set us fre...or deal wth all sorts of non-violent but *very* persistant "fun"..and decide to spell it without the "n" at each individual's personal discretion (insert blatently over-th-top bwahha laugh here and goes off whistling ;D
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Sent to CBS weekly and evening news. Sent to ABC's "The View" (I figure their pro-female-empowerment bent will make it of interest)
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Part of me wonders if THIS is the press release to try and get to Cobert?
If someone knows how to get his attention, I know its still political season but his spin on this issue might be exactly what we are looking for. We could also try or John Stewart but Cobert is absolutely brilliant IMO and might be able to find the perfect spin
I'd say BOTH Stewart and Colbert.
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Sent to CBS weekly and evening news. Sent to ABC's "The View" (I figure their pro-female-empowerment bent will make it of interest)
Nice, try ellen also. Everyone loves ellen
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What about Entertainment Weekly? They seem to have some devoted pop culture geekery represented on their staff, and even bother mentioning video games on a regular basis.
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Sent to Colbert Report via his site and sent to the email contacts for news for Comedy Central linked as the main points of contact for The Daily Show.
I've also sent an email with the link to the release to Rush Limbaugh, though I doubt it will get anywhere (the email contact there is a fairly general one).
So that's CBS, NBC, Fox, the Daily Show, the Colbert Report, and an attempt to send it to The View I've done.
I'll look into Ellen; please, if others have suggested places to submit it, go ahead and take the intiative; this will go a lot faster if we all send to anything we can think of rather than me trying to cover everything.
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Sent to Colbert Report via his site and sent to the email contacts for news for Comedy Central linked as the main points of contact for The Daily Show.
I've also sent an email with the link to the release to Rush Limbaugh, though I doubt it will get anywhere (the email contact there is a fairly general one).
So that's CBS, NBC, Fox, the Daily Show, the Colbert Report, and an attempt to send it to The View I've done.
I'll look into Ellen; please, if others have suggested places to submit it, go ahead and take the intiative; this will go a lot faster if we all send to anything we can think of rather than me trying to cover everything.
Iv'e only contacted game companies (to buy it) and groups (like game, anime and comic), if someone has a standard letter with links and stuff to send i'll send to local news and stuff too.
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Iv'e only contacted game companies (to buy it) and groups (like game, anime and comic), if someone has a standard letter with links and stuff to send i'll send to local news and stuff too.
Nothing wrong with writing your own. :) If you want to post it here, I'm sure we can help proofread it, if that would make you more comfortable.
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Nothing wrong with writing your own. :) If you want to post it here, I'm sure we can help proofread it, if that would make you more comfortable.
Indeed, share with us! We'll help make sure it's got all the bells and whistles required.
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Iv'e only contacted game companies (to buy it) and groups (like game, anime and comic), if someone has a standard letter with links and stuff to send i'll send to local news and stuff too.
I think you might have lost the link to Segev's press release in the text, Moonfyre.
Here it is in clear
http://stormlord.us/NCSoft%20Realignment.pdf (http://stormlord.us/NCSoft%20Realignment.pdf)
It's a PDF; you can send it as a link, or download it and send it as an attachment to an email. You can also print it.
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Thanks for linking that, VV, and thanks for writing that, Sergev. Let's hope it hits a political audience!
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I think you might have lost the link to Segev's press release in the text, Moonfyre.
Here it is in clear
http://stormlord.us/NCSoft%20Realignment.pdf (http://stormlord.us/NCSoft%20Realignment.pdf)
It's a PDF; you can send it as a link, or download it and send it as an attachment to an email. You can also print it.
yes i did miss it thanks :)
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Oh dear god...
I thought it couldn't get any worse.
Guess what - it's worse.
These are playable characters in Blade and Soul. They're some kind of "bunny spirit" or something. I'm not sure.
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-hpvEwqVDvJk%2FUHGACa0JGbI%2FAAAAAAAAAvY%2FreeFpF0gBTY%2Fs1600%2F04_BnS_SCREENSHOT_LYN_FORCEMASTER_SUMMONER%2Bcropped.jpg)
(BTW - one of them is supposed to be male. And no I can't tell which one...)
But WAIT... it gets WORSE...
These are costume options for them...
(https://i.imgur.com/HMaPD.png)
I"m sure defenders of the game would say to any complaints about proportions and childlike features "Hey - they're not even human, they don't have to adhere to a human sense of proporiton, so what's the point?"
Well I'd say none of the OTHER females in the game adhere to human proportions either. And additionally, this just...
Ugh... Am I wrong? Am I over-reacting? Or am I right that this looks like friggin borderline KIDDIEPORN here? Is NCSoft just sort of giving the "wink wink nudge nudge" to the absolute WORST in human degradation here?
Argh... It makes me want to throw up a little.
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Ugh... Am I wrong? Am I over-reacting? Or am I right that this looks like friggin borderline KIDDIEPORN here? Is NCSoft just sort of giving the "wink wink nudge nudge" to the absolute WORST in human degradation here?
Argh... It makes me want to throw up a little.
I'm not an expert, but I'm pretty sure Lolita/Lola style is more or less accepted and legal in the Anime/Manga world. (and yes, Lolita means exactly what you think it means)
And on a side note, this isn't exactly new. Everytime Facebook spammed me with one of those dime-a-dozen side-scrolling social MMOG's, the 9/10 times the character featured on the ad looked like an overdeveloped 10-year-old in skimpy clothing wielding a sword so heavy that it would make her tip over (if her endowment didn't first).
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzmqOW0c3o8&feature=fvwrel
I seriously got seasick watching this. There's no way her spine could support her waterbed physics body, and NCSoft wants to replace City of Heroes/City of Villains with this? *urp*
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Oh dear god...
I thought it couldn't get any worse.
Guess what - it's worse.
These are playable characters in Blade and Soul. They're some kind of "bunny spirit" or something. I'm not sure.
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-hpvEwqVDvJk%2FUHGACa0JGbI%2FAAAAAAAAAvY%2FreeFpF0gBTY%2Fs1600%2F04_BnS_SCREENSHOT_LYN_FORCEMASTER_SUMMONER%2Bcropped.jpg)
(BTW - one of them is supposed to be male. And no I can't tell which one...)
But WAIT... it gets WORSE...
These are costume options for them...
(https://i.imgur.com/HMaPD.png)
I"m sure defenders of the game would say to any complaints about proportions and childlike features "Hey - they're not even human, they don't have to adhere to a human sense of proporiton, so what's the point?"
Well I'd say none of the OTHER females in the game adhere to human proportions either. And additionally, this just...
Ugh... Am I wrong? Am I over-reacting? Or am I right that this looks like friggin borderline KIDDIEPORN here? Is NCSoft just sort of giving the "wink wink nudge nudge" to the absolute WORST in human degradation here?
Argh... It makes me want to throw up a little.
Tera called. They'd like their lolis back. >.>
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I'm not an expert, but I'm pretty sure Lolita/Lola style is more or less accepted and legal in the Anime/Manga world. (and yes, Lolita means exactly what you think it means)
And on a side note, this isn't exactly new. Everytime Facebook spammed me with one of those dime-a-dozen side-scrolling social MMOG's, the 9/10 times the character featured on the ad looked like an overdeveloped 10-year-old in skimpy clothing wielding a sword so heavy that it would make her tip over (if her endowment didn't first).
The term is Lolicon. There is also Lolita Fashion, but that is for women to actually dress up like children.
I'm a researcher for several law offices. Not all of the cases they deal with are nice, sad to say.
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Ugh... Am I wrong? Am I over-reacting? Or am I right that this looks like friggin borderline KIDDIEPORN here? Is NCSoft just sort of giving the "wink wink nudge nudge" to the absolute WORST in human degradation here?
Mmmno. With this on the evidence table, I think we can openly add "borderline pedophilia" to the list as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzmqOW0c3o8&feature=fvwrel (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzmqOW0c3o8&feature=fvwrel)
For you all to see what the game is like....it's sexy unproportionate women made out of jelly. Noone can walk like that and this oversexed game is our replacement for heroes?
Rock says "noone can walk like that i tried...it's not possible" He looked really funny trying also
I'm going to quote Randy Milholland (http://www.superstupor.com/sust01252012.shtml) here and say "That pose offends me both as a woman and someone who knows how spines work."
Anyway, I'm a bit late to the party, but I figured I'd toss my female characters into the gallery - linked for largeness;
Moonlight Monarch (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/33551029/moonlight_monarch.jpg)
Ambient Light (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/33551029/ambient_light.jpg)
Twilight Snorkle (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/33551029/twilight_snorkle.jpg)
Nemesis Hax (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/33551029/nemesis_hax.jpg)
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All right, serious question.
Child pornography in the United States is a crime.
Is what NCSoft is advertising criminal? Could we nail them for that in a court of law?
I know that this isn't actual child pornography: the images here are renderings, not photographs of actual children. But does this matter? I don't know the law well enough.
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All right, serious question.
Child pornography in the United States is a crime.
Is what NCSoft is advertising criminal? Could we nail them for that in a court of law?
I know that this isn't actual child pornography: the images here are renderings, not photographs of actual children. But does this matter? I don't know the law well enough.
I don't know if it's illegal {in fact, I'm hoping it's not for the sake of the first amendment}, but drawing attention that they're openly marketing it might murder their rep.
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All right, serious question.
Child pornography in the United States is a crime.
Is what NCSoft is advertising criminal? Could we nail them for that in a court of law?
I know that this isn't actual child pornography: the images here are renderings, not photographs of actual children. But does this matter? I don't know the law well enough.
Sadly, these images do not qualify as child pornography under US law, to the best of my knowledge, as the "children" are actually covered and not in a directly sexual situation.
Also, if I recall correctly(and I may be wrong, here), rendered and drawn images are almost never considered 'child pornography' because fictional characters do not have an actual legal age, since(from a legal standpoint) they do not exist.
My information may be old, obsolete, or completely misinformed. I am not a lawyer. Do not attempt to use Grimm Advice in a legal capacity. If swelling persists within two hours of using Grimm Advice, please consult your physician. Side effects include eye rolling, face palming, shaking of one's head, beleaguered groaning, and the sudden urge to observe Batman in some form of media.
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My information may be old, obsolete, or completely misinformed. I am not a lawyer. Do not attempt to use Grimm Advice in a legal capacity. If swelling persists within two hours of using Grimm Advice, please consult your physician. Side effects include eye rolling, face palming, shaking of one's head, beleaguered groaning, and the sudden urge to observe Batman in some form of media.
I'd rather observe Manticore. Preferably on an adventure with his wife. And preferably in the "alive again" sense, not the "both dead now" sense. :)
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All right, serious question.
Child pornography in the United States is a crime.
Is what NCSoft is advertising criminal? Could we nail them for that in a court of law?
I know that this isn't actual child pornography: the images here are renderings, not photographs of actual children. But does this matter? I don't know the law well enough.
Sadly no, it skirts the law, but does not cross into the territory.
I already asked two of the lawyers.
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I'd rather observe Manticore. Preferably on an adventure with his wife. And preferably in the "alive again" sense, not the "both dead now" sense. :)
...both dead now? D:
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http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pso-world.com%2Fforums%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D187148&h=VAQFJkwmH
Click on the link, ignore the videos then scroll down. Is it just me or do the boys look like topless little girls? And the girls are in nighties. And how the game is with the walking and sexually suggestive emotes it really makes me ill.
You just linked a link to a link (Yo dawg, I heard you liked links). Think you meant to do this: http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187148
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You just linked a link to a link (Yo dawg, I heard you liked links). Think you meant to do this: http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187148
Yes sorry, just changed it
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I have GIMP on the new PC (my version of Photoshop is old enough that I can't install it on Windows 7), but I'm not intimately familiar with all of it's functions yet. I'll have to see if I can figure that one out.
I realize it's not free, but for 1/10th the price of PS you can get PSP (now owned by Corel) and it looks/acts as much like PS as is possible. I use that for SS as it has the option to set your Own key combo and take as many shots as they app can handle memory wise.
Tip: Stop at around 200 or you will cry when it eventually crashes. >.<
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...six criteria.
Whether the focal point of the visual depiction is on the child's genitalia or pubic area.
Whether the setting of the visual depiction is sexually suggestive, i.e., in a place or pose generally associated with sexual activity.
Whether the child is depicted in an unnatural pose, or in inappropriate attire, considering the age of the child.
Whether the child is fully or partially clothed, or nude.
Whether the visual depiction suggests sexual coyness or a willingness to engage in sexual activity.
Whether the visual depiction is intended or designed to elicit a sexual response in the viewer.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dost_test
Well now doesn't that look like a wonderfully subjective list, by which opinions can be easily swayed (or bribed) :roll:
And if all else fails, NC can just say the child is actually a forest sprite, and then everyone's happy.
And I'm guessing there's a certain number on the list that must be met before its an offense. I'd say #6 on the list is definitely locked in.
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O_o o... kay...?
Why the change? If there's a joke here, I must be too dense to get it.
My guess would be that it's probably considered rude to call somebody by the original term and is likely somewhere listed in the various forum rulesets. Therefore the Proxy term which is normally viewed in a positive light is used with the punchline being that it is in itself an oxymoron...
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I realize it's not free, but for 1/10th the price of PS you can get PSP (now owned by Corel) and it looks/acts as much like PS as is possible. I use that for SS as it has the option to set your Own key combo and take as many shots as they app can handle memory wise.
Tip: Stop at around 200 or you will cry when it eventually crashes. >.<
Also paint tool sai is pretty good. Nothing beats good old photoshop though...
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And if all else fails, NC can just say the child is actually a forest sprite, and then everyone's happy.
Actually, forest sprites don't look like little girls. They more look like little adults.
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Actually, forest sprites don't look like little girls. They more look like little adults.
Touche'
Point is though, of a company wants to create a non-human being that just happens to look exactly like one...
Apparently it doesn't take much to sidestep the law on matters like that. Disney was sued over Finding Nemo because of a storybook about clown fish that came out years earlier but had countless story elements in common. Disney won because their fish was a different shade of orange. So I can just imagine something NOT legally being pedophilia because, "Children do not have green hair."
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This seriously depends on where you are, what kind of jury you get, how good the prosecutor is, and how good your lawyer is.
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This seriously depends on where you are, what kind of jury you get, how good the prosecutor is, and how good your lawyer is.
Pretty much this. And one can count that the defendant would be bringing a massive(ly expensive) legal team to defend their right to put this out in US.
All I can do when I see the lolis is facepalm and think, "THIS is what they wanted to replace CoH with? That just makes me want to go redside." :'(
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It's not so much that I think we can STOP them or bring them to court.
What we can do is SHAME them. And make it a STIGMA to play Blade and Soul.
"Oh you play THAT game? What're you, some neck-bearded weeaboo living in the basement? YEeesh..."
We don't HAVE to win in an actual court. I'm more than happy to rake NCSoft over the court of public opinion. I already think the game is going to fail and fail hard. I'd just be happy to give it a little "push".
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There has to be SOME way we can take advantage of the name Blade & Soul and make an innuendo from it.
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There has to be SOME way we can take advantage of the name Blade & Soul and make an innuendo from it.
Personally, I'm just calling it Breast and Skin.
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"Boobs and Shame" is mine. 8)
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I just realized a rather hilarious thing about BS;
If the visual draw is supposed to be the hypersexualized Leifeldian parodies of females - who exactly is going to play them?
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Boobs and Sluts is mine.
@Quinch, I am told that in the Korean market, men playing this hypersexualized avatars is HUGE. The game market is heavily male over there.
The truth is, no one who is in Korea at NCSoft is going to understand the fuss. This is business as usual for them. They are not even thinking, they are merely going "this sells hugely in Korea and China, it will sell hugely in the US!" We're not going to shame NCSoft over this; they simply will not understand why they should feel ashamed. However, that said, we can generate a lot, and I mean a lot, of negative pressure on them. They may not understand why they are getting it, but they will understand it is happening, and a quick check by their PR firm will show them exactly who is behind it. The message should be plain: this is going to continue to happen until they sell or lease the IP of CoH. And if the message isn't plain, some simple internet sleuthing will lead them here, where we spell it out in blatant black and white.
However, the hypersexualization of children in Boobs and Sluts, and portraying it as kiddieporn is going to be a really tough sell when virtually every episode of Toddlers and Tiaras and Here Comes Honey-Boo-Boo has real live toddlers who are every bit as tarted up and hypersexualized, and that's playing every week in primetime on "respected" cable networks. I wish I could say otherwise, a couple of those costumes are far, far from innocent, but there it is. I don't think we can get that particular dog to hunt, so we should probably concentrate on the one that will.
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However, the hypersexualization of children in Boobs and Sluts, and portraying it as kiddieporn is going to be a really tough sell when virtually every episode of Toddlers and Tiaras and Here Comes Honey-Boo-Boo has real live toddlers who are every bit as tarted up and hypersexualized, and that's playing every week in primetime on "respected" cable networks. I wish I could say otherwise, a couple of those costumes are far, far from innocent, but there it is. I don't think we can get that particular dog to hunt, so we should probably concentrate on the one that will.
...did you have to remind me those programs exist? Ngh. I need fifty showers now.
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...did you have to remind me those programs exist? Ngh. I need fifty showers now.
It's things like these that make me glad I cancelled my cable...
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It's things like these that make me glad I cancelled my cable...
I have to admit, I watched an episode of Honey Boo-Boo when it came on Discovery Channel (or TLC, I forget which) because once it was on, it had that horrifying fascination of a slow-motion train wreck. You know you probably shouldn't be watching it, but it's impossible to look away.
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I have to admit, I watched an episode of Honey Boo-Boo when it came on Discovery Channel (or TLC, I forget which) because once it was on, it had that horrifying fascination of a slow-motion train wreck. You know you probably shouldn't be watching it, but it's impossible to look away.
That just encourages them to keep making episodes. D:
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Boobs and Sluts is mine.
Yeah, it's the "sluts" part that irks me somewhat - I've got nothing against promiscuity per se, so using the game name in an insulting context like that implies negativity on sluts? Skin, on the other hand, is pretty straightforward and carries the image of an approach to clothing that's perfunctory at best.
Boobs definitely rolls off the tongue better than breasts, though. Boobs and skin? How about skanks? I think the word's usually implied as an unhealthy/irresponsible slut?
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Maybe I'm just one of those people who can't see anything sexual at all in a kid, but other than the one outfit that has a tube-top on the "forest sprite," none of those seem to be sexualizing, let along hypersexualizing, the little characters to me.
I'm not saying this to discourage people from feeling offended nor horrified by it. I am saying this to point out that this is going to be a tough sell, because they aren't posing the "kids" in the same overtly "sexy" way that they are the women. The game's main emphasis for sexualization also seems to be breasts, which these small fry don't have.
So I think trying to make a "child porn" case against it at this time is only going to dilute the message we're trying to sell. My first thought on seeing the initial "forest sprite" image - aside from reacting to "one of those is a boy" with "well, that's tricky to pick out, but I'll guess the one without pigtails" - was "huh, that seems an awfully innocent image for B&S."
The later images of costumes are edging into the "oh, that's why it's upsetting" territory, but without the context I'd just have shrugged because it doesn't seem sexual to me. The tube-top one's trying to be, but failing. And if I'm reacting to it as if it's a stretch, then we're probably going to have to work very hard to sell it to more than the professionally offended in this category. (I use the term less critically than usual, here; in this case, "people who are constantly on the lookout for the slightest hint of child exploitation" and "people looking for any reason to be mad at NCSoft/B&S.")
In short: While maybe this could be an evolution of the story if the pressure needs to be kept up and it goes a bit further in the offensive direction, I think we should not even bring this angle up for now. Focus on the indisputable part of the message.
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In short: While maybe this could be an evolution of the story if the pressure needs to be kept up and it goes a bit further in the offensive direction, I think we should not even bring this angle up for now. Focus on the indisputable part of the message.
This would be a wonderful thing for some interested news agency to discover independently, though. Preferably about two days after the initial story gets traction. That would be ideal for our case.
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Eh, maybe, maybe not. Even if none of us goes to the press with it in secret, it'd be far too easy to be accused of it regardless, especially with open posts like these.
Let's just keep to the moral high ground for now.
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You know, I was thinking, just like "City of Hero" flopped in Korea, I'm betting Boobs and Camel Toes will flop here. Especially if we keep making a stink about "Hey only Pedo Weeaboo neckbeards play this stuff!" >.>
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Honestly, even without City of Heroes, that thing is enough of an abomination to fail on its own merit.
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Ugh... Am I wrong? Am I over-reacting? Or am I right that this looks like friggin borderline KIDDIEPORN here? Is NCSoft just sort of giving the "wink wink nudge nudge" to the absolute WORST in human degradation here?
Yeah, we all know there's a big pedophile subculture in Asia... and sure, I can see how that tilted hip stance being applied to a prepubescent girl is slightly inappropriate. Still, I don't think we're quite in the realm of 'lolicon hentai' (not until players come along and use those characters for their cybersex "roleplay").
This may read wrong, but I like how you all are pushing this angle out in the wild mostly because it is a tiny bit disingenuous, and plays on the ignorance of the general audience. After all, the female form in CoH is not nearly as flexible as the male(s) (you get a slider between buxom and waif, essentially), and if you put a female in walk mode she may not move quite as contortedly as the ones in B&S, but it's anything but conservative. Damned if I don't appreciate the effect of juxtaposing a superhero draped in the American flag against a bunch of unwholesome-looking manga-barbies, though.
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I have to make this brief as I am about to head out of town without internet access for the next week -- I've read the first 3 pages and there's some interesting commentary and hopefully I won't repeat anything. I see about 4-5 different campaigns here --
1. Get stories from gaming parents to vouch for the family values playing the game with their kids (past and present) as well as kids that gamed witht heir parents (on CoH, naturally). Collect them to use as a reference source.
2. Similiarly, reach out to GamerDad.com to raise awareness fo the shutdown -- not sure if an equivalent gamer mom website exists. The upshot is, NCsoft gains positive spin if they keep the game going.
3. Reach out to Huffington Post, crafting a message about the loss of a game that well-represented women. The slant here would be the abillity to portray women in les than objectified way -- Heroines like Valkyrie and even Battle Maiden would be places to point to, as well as player made heroes...the stories to reinforce player influences. Positive spin for NCsoft to keep it open is that they do believe in positive values too.
4. Reach out to Fox news about the end of an era, informational only -- again it's important to emphasize all that can be done to portray a positive light, versus the relatively static, overly sexualized nature of Blade and Soul. Do not editorialize it, let them do that.
5. Start leveraging some of our oustanding videographers to make youtube videos about these themes with hsolid voiceovers and well-crafted messages.
I can't champion any of this, but hopefully it can help.
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Just to throw a little more oil on the fire (what, wait - there can be more?) I'm afraid I couldn't resist the urge to truncate the statement "NCSoft to Introduce Western Gamers to Asian Martial Arts Fantasy with Blade & Soul" in a way that adds a new sniggerworthy conotation to the imagery...
Of course, such a satirical comedic twist is not the kind of thing to put in a serious article, obviously, but I do wonder what the Colberts and Stewarts of the world might make of this particular minor misplacement of inverted commas? ;)
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=imageshack.us%2Fa%2Fimg266%2F954%2Fmartialartsintro.jpg)
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Yeah, we all know there's a big pedophile subculture in Asia... and sure, I can see how that tilted hip stance being applied to a prepubescent girl is slightly inappropriate. Still, I don't think we're quite in the realm of 'lolicon hentai' (not until players come along and use those characters for their cybersex "roleplay")
Wasn't there a video featuring some of the emotes these B&S girls can do? I seemed to remember it was very unnecessarily flirty. Another paradox of the anti-pedo thing, really. Seems the "non-kids" can tease and flirt all they want, as long as they don't actually engage in anything elicit.
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Yeah, we all know there's a big pedophile subculture in Asia... and sure, I can see how that tilted hip stance being applied to a prepubescent girl is slightly inappropriate. Still, I don't think we're quite in the realm of 'lolicon hentai' (not until players come along and use those characters for their cybersex "roleplay").
This may read wrong, but I like how you all are pushing this angle out in the wild mostly because it is a tiny bit disingenuous, and plays on the ignorance of the general audience. After all, the female form in CoH is not nearly as flexible as the male(s) (you get a slider between buxom and waif, essentially), and if you put a female in walk mode she may not move quite as contortedly as the ones in B&S, but it's anything but conservative. Damned if I don't appreciate the effect of juxtaposing a superhero draped in the American flag against a bunch of unwholesome-looking manga-barbies, though.
think those little kid characters acting like this in those skimpy outfits posted a page or 2 back.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzmqOW0c3o8&feature=fvwrel
I'm pretty sure the emotes would be universal.
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However, the hypersexualization of children in Boobs and Sluts, and portraying it as kiddieporn is going to be a really tough sell when virtually every episode of Toddlers and Tiaras and Here Comes Honey-Boo-Boo has real live toddlers who are every bit as tarted up and hypersexualized, and that's playing every week in primetime on "respected" cable networks. I wish I could say otherwise, a couple of those costumes are far, far from innocent, but there it is. I don't think we can get that particular dog to hunt, so we should probably concentrate on the one that will.
The U.S. entertainment industry has the government by the balls, and it's been that way for a long time. No other element of the business world has tried to redefine rights to earn more income (first SOPA, then PIPA, and now they want to remove our right to resell media AT ALL) So it's no big shock that they keep getting away with it. I hate to even suggest this, but there's a much better chance against NCsoft since there's a lot of xenophobes out there.
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... wielding a sword so heavy that it would make her tip over...
*coughtitanweaponscough* Just sayin'...
But yeah...the Lyn (that's the name of the Lolicon-looking playable race in Blade and Soul) are a bit much for me. They take the game from roll-my-eyes territory, chucking at every basement neckbeard gamer with no sex life cliche that just got reinforced, to shuddering a bit at the creepyness of it all.
Moreover, B&S is simply not remotely a viable replacement for CoH. It is a fundamentally different game on so many levels that the crossover appeal in the Western market will be virtually nonexistent. Different genre (fantasy vs superhero), very different degree of realism in the depiction of the world, tie-ins to radically different archetypes, mythologies, and memes, very different combat depiction (have a peep at gameplay videos...there are a ton on YouTube)...the list goes on and on. I can't see Blade and Soul having more than very limited success in the West, regardless of the effect of anger at NCSoft over shuttering CoH. Simply put, it's a very, VERY Asian game.
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Moreover, B&S is simply not remotely a viable replacement for CoH. It is a fundamentally different game on so many levels that the crossover appeal in the Western market will be virtually nonexistent. Different genre (fantasy vs superhero), very different degree of realism in the depiction of the world, tie-ins to radically different archetypes, mythologies, and memes, very different combat depiction (have a peep at gameplay videos...there are a ton on YouTube)...the list goes on and on.
... to say nothing about the fact that the market is so over-saturated with sword & sorcery games that it amazes me anyone is still making them.
*coughtitanweaponscough* Just sayin'...
I only excuse superheroes for being able to logically pull that off. 8)
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Never, ever underestimate the bandwagon effect. Especially not when people want to "play it safe."
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Moreover, B&S is simply not remotely a viable replacement for CoH. It is a fundamentally different game on so many levels that the crossover appeal in the Western market will be virtually nonexistent. Different genre (fantasy vs superhero), very different degree of realism in the depiction of the world, tie-ins to radically different archetypes, mythologies, and memes, very different combat depiction (have a peep at gameplay videos...there are a ton on YouTube)...the list goes on and on. I can't see Blade and Soul having more than very limited success in the West, regardless of the effect of anger at NCSoft over shuttering CoH. Simply put, it's a very, VERY Asian game.
More to the point - I understand it's yet another in a long list of "Grinders". that is - little to no story at all from the low levels until the end game and then it's either you "pay to win" or you get involved in mass combat with armies of other players.
The asian mindset towards what they consider an enjoyable MMO simply does not work here. They've tried it multiple times. RF Online and Aion being the most memorable.
RF Online was also an extremely gorgeous game (for the state of the art at the time) and it had powerhouse artist Shirow Masamune (Appleseed, Ghost in the Shell) doing their character and armor designs! Guess what? It didn't help then either!
People will ogle the artwork. But the gameplay is what will turn all but the most hardcore fanatics off.
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... to say nothing about the fact that the market is so over-saturated with sword & sorcery games that it amazes me anyone is still making them.
Exactly, all else aside those are really the only MMO's out there, WoW clones. I play wow, iv'e tried tons of other fantasy MMO's and they are all so similar i just get bored. The only 2 i spend any time on are WoW and Shaiya. Not to say that there aren't other good ones, i downloaded everquest because i love the ps2 game but havn't had a chance to play yet. Ok, anyway enough of that the point is the market has enough of that type of game already. Heroes was unique.
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People will ogle the artwork. But the gameplay is what will turn all but the most hardcore fanatics off.
I played a mage in Aion for 2 days. The moment I found out that everything was an attack chain? That did it in for me. The number of spells was actually quite low, but besides that, you had to hear your character call out the spell EVERY time you attack. Can't imagine what that would've done to me after a couple years.
And... thought of another innuendo title, but it's probably too OTT.
"Blade in Hole?" 8)
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think those little kid characters acting like this in those skimpy outfits posted a page or 2 back.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzmqOW0c3o8&feature=fvwrel
I'm pretty sure the emotes would be universal.
Try to find video of the kids doing that walk and emotes, though. Although in COH (for example) all the characters do have access to the same emotes, we don't have a lot of gender-specific emotes. Or would you expect the male characters on this BS... er B&S... game to also have the same animations? It would be really awesome if you can get video of those characters doing the skanky walks and emotes, but I'm skeptical it would actually work that way.
It'd also be neat if some talented demo-editor could set up a particularly flag-draped and non-sexual (maybe comedic) clip of CoH emote action to juxtapose with the B&S butt-flashes and booby-swaying.
BTW, even WildStar has it's own version of those creepy little moe-eyed critters. I wouldn't expect they are running around making come-hither gestures, but who knows...? ;)
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BTW, even WildStar has it's own version of those creepy little moe-eyed critters. I wouldn't expect they are running around making come-hither gestures, but who knows...? ;)
If they do, I propose the alternate title: Stars Gone Wild.
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Actually, one of my biggest issues with DCUO, stated so eloquently by Yahtzee (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/2757-DC-Universe-Online), is the child sidekick body type. I understand this is a time-honored tradition in DC, and to a lesser degree in Marvel, but the implementation is terrible. One of my IRL friends did one, and we had more fun making fun of how creepy it was than actually playing the game.
I'm not being prudish, here. I enjoy the eye candy as much as the next neckbeard, but I did enjoy playing CoH with my son. That's not something I can do with any other game currently out there or in the "coming soon" phase, with the possible exception of the Cryptic/Perfect World games. I think we're going a little overboard with the pedophilia association, but that's a personal distaste for the subject matter in question rather than a concern for the direction the conversation is headed. So far, I think the idea has the potential to play well with the "conservative American value set," without alienating the rest of the nationalities/regionalities currently associated with the efforts, here.
I am saying that as a Midwestern American, though, so I'll just go ahead and pass out grains of salt for everyone. :)
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Actually, one of my biggest issues with DCUO, stated so eloquently by url=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/2757-DC-Universe-Online]Yahtzee[/url], is the child sidekick body type. I understand this is a time-honored tradition in DC, and to a lesser degree in Marvel, but the implementation is terrible. One of my IRL friends did one, and we had more fun making fun of how creepy it was than actually playing the game.
I am saying that as a Midwestern American, though, so I'll just go ahead and pass out grains of salt for everyone. :)
Lulz...The Cape just did the "Shady Valley Boy's Home" ad, inviting villains to mentor homeless children. 8)
And... DCUO is actually that creepy?
TBH as far as the pedophelia thing being "out of control" in the thread, that's kinda going on everywhere. There's such a paranoia surrounding the issue now, "There's a predator around every corner and behind every screen... isn't there?" that people see something 'wrong' even in places where nothing is intended. (million and one batman/robin jokes, get on stage)
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If they do, I propose the alternate title: Stars Gone Wild.
lol, nice one
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Asking out of total ignorance here (seeing as I didn't even know the option existed), but what's so creepy about the "child sidekick" body type in the game in question?
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Funny - I didn't get that vibe from the "Rabbit Girl" in the Wildstar trailers at all. She seemed like an adult to me. With the caveat that she was a bit of a "ditzy" adult. (Not unintelligent, just easily distracted).
(EDIT: I also don't want to hate on DCUO for the sidekick thing. It's really not possible to make something as outrageous with it as anything from Blade and Soul. And we do NOT need to be drawing attention to a staple of American comics that could be turned against us in our campaign here. )
I REALLY don't want to hate on Wildstar too much. They're in the same unenviable boat as the people at Arenanet. They are doing some damn good work. I only wish they could find a way to do it for a company other than NCSoft. I don't want to go negative on them so much as I'd like to encourage them to find any way out from under NCSoft that's possible.
I don't think that we have as much traction in that regard with Arenanet, and I don't think we should even try to hurt them. All we can do is refuse to give NCSoft OUR money. But they've already made most of the sales they're going to make there with the launch. And both they and Wildstar are North American employees. So... I'd hate to cause THEM to lose their jobs. But with Wildstar there's enough lead time that maybe we can have a non-destructive effect there - cause them to break from NCSoft and find another publisher perhaps.
In regards to the lolicon/borderline pedo stuff. Yeah - probably not going to fly. Not in any strictly legal sense.
But here's the important bit - both with that angle and the more overt objectification of females in B&S - listen up.
They are SOCIAL angles. Tools that we can use. And yes, Mantic, I am USING the squick factor consciously.
These are tools that NCSoft has unwittingly GIVEN us to beat them over the head with using the social media (facebook, twitter, livejournal, blogger, etc) and I fully endorse the idea of us USING them to build negative PR memes. And we have MORE than enough lead time before B&S is even released to make a MAJOR headache for them.
So yeah - let's concentrate on the obvious jiggle and tease softcore elements of the human females at first. See if that gains traction. Retweet that video that's been posted above a few times with desultory comments! Post it back to NCSoft's facebook page saying "we're not interested in this and won't be paying money for it!"
Push the story to CNN, Fox, MSNBC, etc. Doesn't matter!
The more saturation we have on the topic on OUR terms before NCSoft realizes what's happening, the better!
In military terms, get inside their OODA loop. (Observe, Orient, Decide, Act). It's not always the guy who makes every perfect decision possible who wins, it's the guy who reacts faster overall.
That's why social media can be such a game changer these days. We have FAR more power to move minds than has been available even 5 years ago!
One last thing. And it's VERY IMPORTANT.
Comedy. Satire. Ridicule.
Turjan had the right idea - MOCKING Taek Jin Kim in his cartoon paneled strip.
We need MORE like that. We need not to come off as OUTRAGED. We need to be making FUN of NCSoft for their idiocy!
We need to make the entire CONCEPT of Blade and Soul being released in America to be exactly what it is - A BAD JOKE. Something to ridicule. Something to LAUGH AT.
If we can make it so that we turn the gamers lusting after Blade and Soul currently into gamers who don't want to ADMIT that they play it for fear of that ridicule - of being MOCKED for it. I will consider it mission accomplished.
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I played a mage in Aion for 2 days. The moment I found out that everything was an attack chain? That did it in for me. The number of spells was actually quite low, but besides that, you had to hear your character call out the spell EVERY time you attack. Can't imagine what that would've done to me after a couple years.
And... thought of another innuendo title, but it's probably too OTT.
"Blade in Hole?" 8)
You do know you could turn that off in the options, right? :P
And it wasn't all an attack chain, they actually have lots of spells, especially once you unlock stigmas and can begin slotting them (think FFVII Materia, except class based).
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You do know you could turn that off in the options, right? :P
......... *facepalm*
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I'm not much of a drawing artist, but I had a thought of trying to come up with a way to play with the realignment of company focus thing. Maybe even incorporating the infamous NCsoft phone call thing.
Idea #1. Coming out of the earpiece: "What the heck is a realignment of company focus?" The exec is on the phone but is mainly focused on the computer screen with some Lolicon girls on it. He's drooling all over the keyboard.
Idea #2. Playing on the 'realignment of focus' term, an exec turning the focusing knob on a telescope that is pointed out the window of his office (presumably looking at a girl in an adjacent building - again made obvious by the drool). To his back, on the screen, a message from PS saying something like, "So, about that advertising budget for next year..."
If anyone wants to play with any of that, go ahead.
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Asking out of total ignorance here (seeing as I didn't even know the option existed), but what's so creepy about the "child sidekick" body type in the game in question?
In and of itself, nothing, but the costume styles are all available, as are the poses. It makes for some really "wrong" combinations.
Unless they've changed that since we were playing it. That was when it first went F2P, and I haven't tried it, recently. I'm going to, now that you've made me think of it. If it's not that way, anymore, disregard. :)
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Actually, one of my biggest issues with DCUO, stated so eloquently by Yahtzee (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/2757-DC-Universe-Online), is the child sidekick body type.
*laughs* "People are less likely to grief each other when they have a clearly defined enemy ripe for the teabagging."
Thanks for that link!
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*laughs* "People are less likely to grief each other when they have a clearly defined enemy ripe for the teabagging."
Thanks for that link!
Some of them (including this one) I can watch over and over, but definitely not around the kids. :)
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Good grief!
YAHTZEE!!!
We need to contact HIM about everything we've been talking about!
He'd GO TO TOWN On this!!!
It would be GLORIOUS!!!
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Good grief!
YAHTZEE!!!
We need to contact HIM about everything we've been talking about!
He'd GO TO TOWN On this!!!
It would be GLORIOUS!!!
Or he'll mock us. 8)
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Or he'll mock us. 8)
Likely both.
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Or he'll mock us. 8)
Yeah, Yahtzee is kind of the lovable uncle with an amusing and colorfully disparaging opinion about everything -- including yourself! ;D (Generalized 'you' there, of course.)
Admittedly, I'm curious as to what he would think, but I hold no illusions he'd not blast this community as readily as he would NCsoft!
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Likely both.
LOL! Probably!
Also, the comment on this video around 3:08 is probably close to what NCSoft's reaction would be to some of the topics here http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/6361-Monster-Boobs-And-Plastic-Children
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I like (and I use the word loosely, here) how the video clip that's playing behind the voiceover depicts a bizarre melding of Jackie Chan and Ike Turner (Chris Brown, for you younger pups).
Also, you can, in fact, make a slutty teenager in DCUO, though it's more a smaller adult body with a teenager's face. Not really better, just an observation.
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Funny - I didn't get that vibe from the "Rabbit Girl" in the Wildstar trailers at all. She seemed like an adult to me. With the caveat that she was a bit of a "ditzy" adult. (Not unintelligent, just easily distracted).
Indeed, that's my take too. Plus, she's more traditionally 'cute' - actually, she's a sort of east/west style hybrid to my eyes, and seems to work rather well. She's a valid artistic attempt in my book...which is why I just decided to do the pic below...but we'll get to that in a minute ;)
And we do NOT need to be drawing attention to a staple of American comics that could be turned against us in our campaign here.
Agreed - we are all comic book nerds, and while we may have issues with the visual styles of Champions and DCUO, I'd take either of them in a heartbeat over the grotesque mockery of 'art' that is Blade and Soul
I REALLY don't want to hate on Wildstar too much. They're in the same unenviable boat as the people at Arenanet. They are doing some damn good work. I only wish they could find a way to do it for a company other than NCSoft. I don't want to go negative on them so much as I'd like to encourage them to find any way out from under NCSoft that's possible.
Sadly I can't see them managing to escape from NCSoft's thrall. I feel for the guys and gals at Carbine right now - they are based in Southern California after all, and they of all people must have felt the shock waves rattling their offices on August 31st.
But here's the important bit - both with that angle and the more overt objectification of females in B&S - listen up.
They are SOCIAL angles. Tools that we can use. And yes, Mantic, I am USING the squick factor consciously.
These are tools that NCSoft has unwittingly GIVEN us to beat them over the head with using the social media (facebook, twitter, livejournal, blogger, etc) and I fully endorse the idea of us USING them to build negative PR memes. And we have MORE than enough lead time before B&S is even released to make a MAJOR headache for them.
....
The more saturation we have on the topic on OUR terms before NCSoft realizes what's happening, the better!
....
One last thing. And it's VERY IMPORTANT.
Comedy. Satire. Ridicule.
Turjan had the right idea - MOCKING Taek Jin Kim in his cartoon paneled strip.
We need MORE like that. We need not to come off as OUTRAGED. We need to be making FUN of NCSoft for their idiocy!
We need to make the entire CONCEPT of Blade and Soul being released in America to be exactly what it is - A BAD JOKE. Something to ridicule. Something to LAUGH AT.
If we can make it so that we turn the gamers lusting after Blade and Soul currently into gamers who don't want to ADMIT that they play it for fear of that ridicule - of being MOCKED for it. I will consider it mission accomplished.
AMEN to that! ;D
We don't have vast resources at our disposal, so we have to make do with what we have. There's a name for such a situation - it's not the Heroes on the blueside or the Villains on the redside...it's the goldside we have to look to for this. This is Resistance territory.
But I don't advocate blowing up hospitals, Calvin Scott style ;)
Graffiti on walls, word of mouth, emotive images to jar people out of their daily routine and make them question what they've been taking for granted - THAT is where our path lies.
We may not have vast resources but what we DO have in spades in our community is CREATIVITY. That's one of the cardinal things that drew us to CoH in the first place after all, isn't it? It's a world where our creativity can run free. Creativity has another thing going for it in the 'unconventional techniques' arsenal - it's unpredictable. It sparks, it jumps, it makes associations that logic can't.
And if your adversary can't predict your moves, they're at a disdvantage.
So yeah, with that in mind, back to what I was saying about Wildstar earlier. Here's the thought that popped into my head -
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=imageshack.us%2Fa%2Fimg201%2F212%2Fwildstacked.jpg)
If anyone can find a use for that pic - knock yourselves out! ;D
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Now I'm picturing a superhero standing in front of a windstar character, taking the fatal hit from a terrible monster. And Windstar's avatar looking aghast, wondering how long until she's next.
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And I'm picturing a knockoff of the "Dance Gun" video.
"I just stole this Company Focusing Realigning Gun from NCsoft's laboratory."
"What does it do?"
"I don't know, let's find out."
*ZAP* Target turns from modest heroine into scantily-clad teenybopper with boob enlargements.
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I think I speak for everyone without artistic talent, here, when I say, "I so wish I could draw this up!" :)
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And I'm picturing a knockoff of the "Dance Gun" video.
"I just stole this Company Focusing Realigning Gun from NCsoft's laboratory."
"What does it do?"
"I don't know, let's find out."
*ZAP* Target turns from modest heroine into scantily-clad teenybopper with boob enlargements.
lol I can see that perfectly in my head :D
Alas, my skills do not currently extend to the moving image though...but I'm sure the idea of a Company Focus Realigning Gun has potential as a still image too - I'll have to ponder that a bit!
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As a still, you have a frame showing them talking about the gun, a frame with the gun pointed where the target character was standing and an all-encompassing roughly-triangular "ZAP" effect, possibly with shocked wide eyes visible through it, and then a third frame with the altered character.
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I posted this in the Kibun thread but I might as well ask opinions here.
I'm thinking strongly about recruiting some help for the next, more aggressive "shaming NCSoft in Korea" move, which would be a YouTube video using this footage: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzmqOW0c3o8&feature=fvwrel (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzmqOW0c3o8&feature=fvwrel) and a Korean speaker explaining that THIS game being aggressively marketed in the West by NCSoft as representing Asian martial arts and magic, entitled, Women of Korea! THIS is how NCSOFT wants the West to think of you!
Thoughts? Because if I start on this, to be launched around Nov 15, I am going to need a long head start to get everything organized.
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I posted this in the Kibun thread but I might as well ask opinions here.
I'm thinking strongly about recruiting some help for the next, more aggressive "shaming NCSoft in Korea" move, which would be a YouTube video using this footage: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzmqOW0c3o8&feature=fvwrel (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzmqOW0c3o8&feature=fvwrel) and a Korean speaker explaining that THIS game being aggressively marketed in the West by NCSoft as representing Asian martial arts and magic, entitled, Women of Korea! THIS is how NCSOFT wants the West to think of you!
Thoughts? Because if I start on this, to be launched around Nov 15, I am going to need a long head start to get everything organized.
I lack any of the skills needed to assist on this project, but you have my full support.
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think those little kid characters acting like this in those skimpy outfits posted a page or 2 back.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzmqOW0c3o8&feature=fvwrel
I'm pretty sure the emotes would be universal.
Having finally gotten around to watching that video... only the ridiculous hip-swaying walk is, as a motion by itself, overtly sexual. Most of the rest of those emotes are "cutesie" or "exuberant" but, without the "that's a nearly naked oversexed woman" avatar doing them, would not be sexual in and of themselves.
I'm all for pinning the moral degradation to NCSoft in scarlet letters, but it serves nobody to go overboard in the accusations when we have such unquestionable material to use.
Frankly, I'm relieved that picturing those kids doing the clapping or the other emotes is just "cute kids being kids." I don't want to be sick to my stomach over picturing kids being anything but innocent. ...well, okay, they're gonna be violent in an RPG, but we've covered America's double-standard over that, and I am guilty of being an American. ^^; I think we're okay with it because it's "cartoon" violence. It's not realistic. And not portrayed as something meant to be *cough* "enjoyed."
Anyway, drifting off-topic; I don't think pursuing "this is pedophilia" is a good idea, here, because it's so much of a stretch that it starts to make us look weird for thinking of it. Now, if we do want to pursue something along these lines, consider that "those kids" will be standing right next to the girl in the link in the quote...
But still, I think trying to go too direct on this would be a non-starter. We've got the "exploitation of women" and the "exposing our youth to smut" angles. Let's use those.
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I agree that some kind of serious legal discussion is warranted here. I'd also suggest the same for propaganda in Korea: Koreans certainly have different cultural standards than we do, and I for one have no knowledge of what is considered an acceptable depiction by Korean women.
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Actually, one of my biggest issues with DCUO, stated so eloquently by Yahtzee (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/2757-DC-Universe-Online), is the child sidekick body type. I understand this is a time-honored tradition in DC, and to a lesser degree in Marvel, but the implementation is terrible. One of my IRL friends did one, and we had more fun making fun of how creepy it was than actually playing the game.
Hmm... I have created several 'boy' sidekick type characters in CoH, and a pretty good Peter Pan/Puck knockoff, and a bunch of male 'street urchin' critters for a AE missions (I'll eventually post up screenshots)... you can pull off anything from about 11 years old on up. And stuff a cigar in their mouth while you're at it. Girls, not so much. Instead, we get one of the most off-putting things about City of Heroes to me: rail-thin teeny-tiny barbie doll girls that roleplayers have to explain are supposed to be kids. I've tried to do femteen characters... never felt like it worked. If that is the result of self-censorship instead of shortsighted design, then self-censorship was a bad thing.
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Hmm... I have created several 'boy' sidekick type characters in CoH, and a pretty good Peter Pan/Puck knockoff, and a bunch of male 'street urchin' critters for a AE missions (I'll eventually post up screenshots)... you can pull off anything from about 11 years old on up. And stuff a cigar in their mouth while you're at it. Girls, not so much. Instead, we get one of the most off-putting things about City of Heroes to me: rail-thin teeny-tiny barbie doll girls that roleplayers have to explain are supposed to be kids. I've tried to do femteen characters... never felt like it worked. If that is the result of self-censorship instead of shortsighted design, then self-censorship was a bad thing.
(https://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f253/Cyberyeti/Rampage.jpg)
Not the best, not the worst, a little too much out front (not clear from the screenshot, but the toon is VERY short)
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My Beast/Trap MM is supposed to be a 12yr old girl. It is difficult.
(Note, she's supposed to be Vernon Von Grunn's niece) It's difficult but with a baggy lab coat it's doable.
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Would it really have been so hard to make the "bust" slider go to "flat" in the avatar-building engine? Or was it a conscious choice on the game creators' part?
Also, would it be feasible to use the "boy child" body type in "superheroine" clothes to pull off "girl child hero?" Or is the boy too obviously masculine even though a child?
(I refuse to discuss "cross dressing heroes," here; this is pure "can the DCOU engine be manipulated by a player to get a 'proper' young girl?")
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Would it really have been so hard to make the "bust" slider go to "flat" in the avatar-building engine? Or was it a conscious choice on the game creators' part?
Also, would it be feasible to use the "boy child" body type in "superheroine" clothes to pull off "girl child hero?" Or is the boy too obviously masculine even though a child?
(I refuse to discuss "cross dressing heroes," here; this is pure "can the DCOU engine be manipulated by a player to get a 'proper' young girl?")
There's some that do it, but I think most believe they look way too masculine.
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my 10 year old character...she doesn't look 10, couldn't get it to work so yeah, had to explain all the time.
You can't really tell here but she is very short.
(https://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy194/vmieu/SBGoriginal3.png)
(https://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy194/vmieu/screenshot_120912-02-33-31.jpg)
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This is a character that I made several years ago.
Basically, she's a Wolverine knock-off: Claws/Regen.
But, she's about 14 or so. Or, at least she was before the procedure that gave her the claws.
She likes anime, comic books, and long walks on the beach... :p
I present to you: Cat Girl Alex. :)
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=malzeth.com%2Fimages%2Fcatgirlalex.jpg)
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Here's the Seer child abducted by Mother Mayhem in the First Ward story arc :
(https://i.imgur.com/ucTDi.jpg)
The devs themselves needed a kid for this story, and this is the closest they came to it - and they had every tool in the game at their disposal!
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It may be worth pointing out that this is not be Hyung-Tae Kim's first venture into Western media. Players of a certain pen-and-paper RPG called Exalted (which was also very much inspired by Eastern media) will very well remember the infamous cover for the supplement Savant and Sorcerer. It was also called the "Camel Toe Book."
This is the first cover released:
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=25.media.tumblr.com%2F0DNBGJovY3y5qtixCdIIlQns_500.jpg)
Somehow, it got out into the wild. White Wolf roused itself from its stupor, saw what they had let out the door, and went back to the artist and had him put a loincloth on the subject.
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...will very well remember the infamous cover for the supplement Savant and Sorcerer. It was also called the "Camel Toe Book."
That...is hideous :o That guy has some serious issues about women that he needs to work out. I think what he needs is counselling, not a job at a major games publisher ??? And the fact that he's being not just tolerated but actively encouraged in this misguided quest to turn women into distorted grotesques is disturbing to say the least.
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So, i'm not trying to get our asian community upset with what i'm about to say but is this what the media throws at their woman? I think it's time for a womans movement in Korea. Women need a revolution world wide. Here in America things aren't perfect, we have barbie and the media too but at least we are free to speak our minds and demand equality and have an oppertunity to show real women instead of just this crap.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzmqOW0c3o8&feature=fvwrel
Some of the other videos show that the game apparently does has body sliders in order to change the proportions.
I hope, hope hope that video in particular is just somebody messing with the sliders and pushing them to their extreme limit, and not a default model.
Because *shudder*, that's just grotesque.
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my 10 year old character...she doesn't look 10, couldn't get it to work so yeah, had to explain all the time.
Pretty sure there's only been time that I've seen anyone actually pull off a kid in CoH who actually looks like one. Cute as a button. She uses an assault bot named Mr. Buzzy (vague Bioshock homage?) as a sidekick/bodyguard. Cool use of the shirt top to make suspenders too.
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=www.fragglerockforever.com%2FCoX%2Fharmony.jpg)
Next time I see her I'll have to ask if we can use her screenshot.
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http://news.mmosite.com/content/2012-09-13/ncsoft_confirms_the_global_release_of_blade_and_soul.shtml
Even more images to help you out :o
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http://news.mmosite.com/content/2012-09-13/ncsoft_confirms_the_global_release_of_blade_and_soul.shtml
Even more images to help you out :o
Strange, that last photo actually looks OK. Must just be my mind thinking the skin is actually fabric. :P
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Yeah...this is really gonna appeal to Western gamers...
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=img9.mmo.mmo4arab.com%2Fnews%2F2012%2F09%2F11%2Fbns9.jpg)
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Hey NCsoft, how's that new direction working for you?
http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/chart?symbol=036570.KS
Going DOWN! HAH
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Hey NCsoft, how's that new direction working for you?
http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/chart?symbol=036570.KS
Going DOWN! HAH
Almost where they were before announcing the shutdown. Gee, so much for that boosting investor confidence.
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Almost where they were before announcing the shutdown. Gee, so much for that boosting investor confidence.
So let's point this out to NCSoft's investors. Make NCSoft have to sunset more stuff so that they reconsider their way to pull out of their death spiral.
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So let's point this out to NCSoft's investors. Make NCSoft have to sunset more stuff so that they reconsider their way to pull out of their death spiral.
Maybe B&S is going to be NC's version of TORtanic. Perhaps Karma will come to NC in the form of liquidation. Let's see how much longer they feel like they've exhausted all options for a sale.
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Hey NCsoft, how's that new direction working for you?
http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/chart?symbol=036570.KS
Going DOWN! HAH
I saw that and couldn't help but laugh my @ss off, guess our tactics are working even if they aren't allways done the nice way.
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Not only that, but you have had an effect on the *entire* Korean stock index....
http://www.bloomberg.com/quote/KOSPI:IND
Doth I detecteth sarcasmeth?
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........................................................
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Maybe B&S is going to be NC's version of TORtanic. Perhaps Karma will come to NC in the form of liquidation. Let's see how much longer they feel like they've exhausted all options for a sale.
It's entirely possible that market forecasters -- either in NCsoft or Nexon -- saw this plummet coming and are attempting to minimize operating costs (shut down CoH) consolidate holdings (fire all of Paragon) and sweeten their IP holdings (refuse to sell CoH) to make NCsoft attractive to potential buyers. Said buyers may not ever DO anything with the CoH IP, it's just there in the vault, adding some value to the liquidation of NCsoft so the executives can get their golden parachutes. No, I don't get the logic of sitting on IP, either.
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Yep, and as always, I will just bring out Apple as an example, who are currently trading down almost $70 from their high of just 1 month ago.
You might as well bring out Yahweh if you're going to compare any of this to Apple.
Take a look at the trending in the past couple of months.
NC announces the closure of CoH. Stocks immediately begin to rebound from what was a steady decline.
The highest point of that rebound was right before the Unity Rally. The very next day, stocks start diving again.
If you want to say it was all coincidental then fine, but that's a heck of a big coincidence. And I was never a fan of Scooby Dooing everything.
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You might as well bring out Yahweh if you're going to compare any of this to Apple.
Take a look at the trending in the past couple of months.
NC announces the closure of CoH. Stocks immediately begin to rebound from what was a steady decline.
The highest point of that rebound was right before the Unity Rally. The very next day, stocks start diving again.
If you want to say it was all coincidental then fine, but that's a heck of a big coincidence. And I was never a fan of Scooby Dooing everything.
Also stocks started climbing again when NCSoft put out their "We've exhausted all options" message then started dropping again when we continued to make a fuss.
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I started looking back at NCSoft's stock over the past years.
Currently it is still quite high compared to 2008-2009. They aren't in the least worried right now. I doubt the closing of CoH has anything to do with money. More like they saw (2004) and decided it was getting long in the tooth.
Nexon is focusing on mobile platform games.
Rumors are circulating that desktop PCs will be obsolete in a few years.
Even Richard Garriott is focusing on mobile platforms.
Rumors are that classic MMOs will be going away... a thing of the past.
Yes, there is still big money to be made in Fantasy Grinders. They're grabbing money while it's still there to grab. Older games are getting the axe.
As the customer base we need to keep up the noise. There *is* still a fanbase for MMOs, for social games like CoH that aren't PvP grindfests of pain. Keep talking. Keep posting, tweeting, facebooking... ignore the horned equines. They're going to be everywhere.
As for the PR, don't go too far overboard or we risk harming our image. We don't want to become the Westboro's of the MMO world.
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Rumors are that classic MMOs will be going away... a thing of the past
There are still MUDs that are running, and people playing them. (For those unfamilar, MUDs are basically the precursor the modern MMOs, they're similar in that you have a bunch of people on a single server and you adventure around on a character that can level, for most of them, but they're text based, not graphical)
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Well if MMO's make a total transition to frigging cellphones and consoles, guaranteed I won't be playing them anymore. It's possible CoH will be my last one anyway, but THAT will seal the deal. And if PC's disappear.... I don't even know what to think of that. Is that just an "Apple will take over everything" theory, or ALL forms of non-professional desktop computing?
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Well if MMO's make a total transition to frigging cellphones and consoles, guaranteed I won't be playing them anymore. It's possible CoH will be my last one anyway, but THAT will seal the deal. And if PC's disappear.... I don't even know what to think of that. Is that just an "Apple will take over everything" theory, or ALL forms of non-professional desktop computing?
It's going around smartphones and tablets will replace PCs for general computing needs. I for one couldn't imagine doing everything I do on desktop on a small phone or even tablet screen.
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They're going to have to improve user interface tech to match the utility, ease, and accuracy of keyboard+mouse before mobile devices will 100% take over.
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It's going around smartphones and tablets will replace PCs for general computing needs. I for one couldn't imagine doing everything I do on desktop on a small phone or even tablet screen.
General office work, maybe. But I doubt The Duty Calls III: The Coming Storm: Special Operations IV: Under Assault (Digital Deluxe Steam Edition) is going to be made for the iPhone. There's only so much power you can squeeze into a tablet, and higher-end gaming platforms (that aren't stuck in walled gardens) are going to be around for a long time.
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It's going around smartphones and tablets will replace PCs for general computing needs. I for one couldn't imagine doing everything I do on desktop on a small phone or even tablet screen.
Exactly. Tablets and smartphones are getting more complex. Right now I'm entering this post on my smartphone while attending an online conference call (*snoozefest*).
There are components you can buy for your tablets and smartphones; keyboards and docking stations... they're getting more complex even if they don't quite have the computing power of desktops.
Ebooks are taking over for laptops. Sans hard disks, these computers work off "The Cloud", external peripherals, and usb drives for storage.
IMO, I don't like it. I feel like technology is taking a few steps back. It will be a while before mobile tech reaches the capabilities of high end desktop tech.
But companies look at future trends and this is what they're seeing. Nexon just bought Gloop, a mobile platform game company.
That is where NCSoft is heading. There is the realignment of company focus.
What we need to do is try and convince NCSoft and other game companies that it's far better to sell/recycle the stuff they don't want anymore. :D
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There was a fair bit of social media and even some augmented reality discussion in the "in game advertisements" thread. The latter would require a hefty mobile device compatibility.
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Finally looked over the videos of Blade and Soul.
Good God...!
That isn't a videogame, that's City of Inflatable Dolls.
Okay I admit, I found a way for my bird-woman in CoH to wear a thong. I'm not innocent. But this... this... degrading fap-fest is what plays in Korea?!
Every once in a great while people from other lands and cultures do something to make me feel xenophobia. It almost always revolves around how they treat women.
The nice tech and pretty graphics just makes me want CoH 2 all the more. But if NC-Softcore got involved in the design, maybe it's just as well.
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There was a fair bit of social media and even some augmented reality discussion in the "in game advertisements" thread. The latter would require a hefty mobile device compatibility.
Augmented reality is definitely an interesting concept. There was a portable game back when Tron Legacy came out that allowed you to drive around a city against other players with mobiles and use the path of your vehicle to trap the others. IRL lightcycle match, essentially.
And then there was something else I saw that completely blew me away. NASA demo'd this during the Curiosity landing. Just watch what it does. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQAghZ0A44s
Now imagine advancing that tech 10 years. You put on a pair of glasses, run around your house, and fend off aliens with a ray gun. Or fight against your friends, who put these reference markers on their bodies, and the computer overlays some epic looking armor. The possibilities are nearly endless.
Of course, even that wouldn't replace everyday gaming, since we can't do ANYTHING through augmented reality (like bash through a wall, or fly). But it's still a very cool concept and I can't wait to see what developers do with it.
It may also be as close to Star Wars holography as nature will allow.
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NC-Softcore
Oh, God, my sides! /applause
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Can't bash through walls? We can if the walls exist only in the augmented reality...
Of course, safety concerns regarding REAL walls... so many considerations.
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There are still MUDs that are running, and people playing them. (For those unfamilar, MUDs are basically the precursor the modern MMOs, they're similar in that you have a bunch of people on a single server and you adventure around on a character that can level, for most of them, but they're text based, not graphical)
I'm logged into a MUD right now actually. :D
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Can't bash through walls? We can if the walls exist only in the augmented reality...
Of course, safety concerns regarding REAL walls... so many considerations.
Yeah that's what I mean. The physical environment you're playing in won't bend to the will of the augmented reality. I guess a developer could do that for fun, but only if you want to see a kid pull a Wile E Coyote and crash into a solid wall with a painted hole in it because he saw that the digital Road Runner was able to go through it.
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IMO what you're seeing in NCSoft's current share prices is another example of the extreme volatility they've been subject to ever since the massive climb the company's shares had in late 2008. 4 of their 5 MMO closures have happened since then, but you'd be hard pushed to find their whereabouts on the stock graph if you're looking for simple cause and effect.
As far as I can see, the biggest single kick their shares had came from the launch of Aion - the definitive NCSoft grinder. But times have changed since then - the Korean domestic market is beginning to burn out on a the vast glut of hi-tech they've been swamped with. Not so long ago, mobile phone internet in Korea was sneered at as a joke - why should a customer use an i-device when they have lightning fast cable both at home, and in practically every shop they wander into on the high street?
And yet, here we are just a few years later and 2/3 of Koreans have just such an i-device, and are already burning out to the point where news stories are popping up about people rediscovering a desire for analogue and things they can actually hold in their hands instead of simply see on a screen. Remember too that NCSoft CEO Kim's wife is somewhat of a tech egghead and was pioneering mobile communication technology in Korea before she joined NCSoft and married Kim in 2007.
Life and culture and technology in Korea is changing rapidly - and that is reflected in the country's stockmarket, and especially in tech companies like NCSoft. It's very tempting to wonder if the high they enjoyed in October 2011 (the highest peak in the company's history) may well be their last.
Guild Wars 2 gave the shares a decent hike, but now the share price is back to what it was at the beginning of August, way before GW2 came out. Will the launch of Blade and Soul in the west kick the shares up? I very much doubt it...even if they got a rush from the 'one-handed playstyle' neckbeard community rushing out to buy it, the whole game is just too...Korean for the western market. Even if it wasn't full of grotesque women, the underlying feel is too culturally adrift to bridge the gap. I wouldn't be at all surprised if it failed in exactly the same way and for the same reasons that "City of Hero" failed in Korea.
Which is ironic really - I swear that man never learns from mistakes. I'm coming to believe Kim's entire motivation for the company is Teh Shiny!!!1. And once something's lost its shiny, he just doesn't give a stuff.
Trouble is for him, there may not be many shinies left. He can only realign the focus of his company so far before it either ends up back where it started, or he just breaks the focusing knob entirely.
Sure, they may want to focus on mobile platforms, especially since the government in Korea has actually started passing laws to curb the time children are allowed to play online games, but who's to say Korea's insanely fast consumption of technology isn't already predicting a decline in i-device games and a move back towards people actually...god forbid...talking to each other - in person! And reading...books! And listening to vinyl!
(apologies for WALL OF TEXT CRITS FOR 500!" - I'm old, I tend to ramble a lot ;) )
NC-Softcore
LOL!! Quote of the Month! Dare I incorporate that into my next cartoon panel I wonder? ;D
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Yeah that's what I mean. The physical environment you're playing in won't bend to the will of the augmented reality. I guess a developer could do that for fun, but only if you want to see a kid pull a Wile E Coyote and crash into a solid wall with a painted hole in it because he saw that the digital Road Runner was able to go through it.
I.... I.... I would pay monies for this. Real Monies.
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Just realized something about that B&S toon. Maybe it's an early build, but considering how much detail is on the hair, I don't think so.
Severe lacking of physics on that body. EVERYTHING is recorded motion. The hair, the ribbons on the clothes, all of it. In a modern game, that's borderline unacceptable. Even CoH found a way to get physics onto the characters with the cape trick. Now why in the heck would you make an Eastern game with modern graphics and not give your characters the ability to have epic ribbons and long strands of anime hair blowing in the wind? That makes no sense. They paid no attention to aesthetic detail in that department, but were clearly very concerned with making sure that the girls could move like belly dancers, even when they're not belly dancing. Realignment of focus indeed. :roll:
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Just realized something about that B&S toon. Maybe it's an early build, but considering how much detail is on the hair, I don't think so.
Severe lacking of physics on that body. EVERYTHING is recorded motion. The hair, the ribbons on the clothes, all of it. In a modern game, that's borderline unacceptable. Even CoH found a way to get physics onto the characters with the cape trick. Now why in the heck would you make an Eastern game with modern graphics and not give your characters the ability to have epic ribbons and long strands of anime hair blowing in the wind? That makes no sense. They paid no attention to aesthetic detail in that department, but were clearly very concerned with making sure that the girls could move like belly dancers, even when they're not belly dancing. Realignment of focus indeed. :roll:
Heh. I think it's pretty obvious that B&S (using that acronym, even with the ampersand, makes me squee) is focusing on making a game full of strippers and hookers. It's a little disheartening, actually, if you look at the comments. A lot of people are excited and think it looks really good.
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Heh. I think it's pretty obvious that B&S (using that acronym, even with the ampersand, makes me squee) is focusing on making a game full of strippers and hookers. It's a little disheartening, actually, if you look at the comments. A lot of people are excited and think it looks really good.
Well maybe this is when the moron brigade steps in and starts doing their thing... buying into anything that has sex or explosions. The same kind of people who have enabled Michael Bay to keep making craptastic movies all this time.
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Well maybe this is when the moron brigade steps in and starts doing their thing... buying into anything that has sex or explosions. The same kind of people who have enabled Michael Bay to keep making craptastic movies all this time.
Michael Bay makes FANTAST...snrrrrrrrk...okay, I can't even finish this post with a straight face.
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*raises his hand tentatively*
I liked the Transformers movies...except for the shaky-cam.
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*raises his hand tentatively*
I liked the Transformers movies...except for the shaky-cam.
As long as you weren't there for Megan Fox's "acting" abilities. 8)
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As long as you weren't there for Megan Fox's "acting" abilities. 8)
If Michael Bay had incorporated a male with Megan Fox's... credentials... I would've been happier. Instead I got Shia Labeouf. It's not fair, not at all.
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Heh. I think it's pretty obvious that B&S (using that acronym, even with the ampersand, makes me squee) is focusing on making a game full of strippers and hookers. It's a little disheartening, actually, if you look at the comments. A lot of people are excited and think it looks really good.
Emphasis mine. I will admit that, Liefeld-esque female characters aside, it's reasonably pretty, at least as pretty as I found Aion. But I found Lineage 2's NA localization beta to be pretty as well at the time. 'Pretty' does not make a good game.
Pure speculation incoming:
The industry, thankfully, seems to be moving away from grindalicious* games. This may be why so many Eastern market games are trying to make inroads into the huge NA and EU gamer/MMOer markets: The market in SE Asia is saturated, and these games need to grow to show they're still viable. (If you're not growing, you're dead. Which makes little sense, but there you go.) So we get pushes to the Western markets of some of the bigger titles: ArchLord, Evo, Lineage, Aion, Tera, and now B&S. Each one, hoping to be able to suck some of the numbers from WoW. But here in the West, grindtastic MMOs are also falling in popularity -- WoW is almost unrecognizable now compared to when it launched. The grindariffic games are trying to show they're still popular when I suspect their popularity is waning, perhaps even rapidly.
So you get games -- both East and West -- with gimmicks, some new system or feature that's supposed to be, not a WoW-killer, but a relevance-maker. Something to put the game on the map. With B&S, it appears to be... well, softcore porn.
This is a troubling trend, because it means it may take what we know of as MMOs out with the grindish games.
I for one am not ready to surrender the kind of creativity and fun I had with CoH to poorly-understood market forces. This is why I support Plan Z, and games like Vendetta Online, and efforts to address NCsoft's boneheaded decision. Because isn't it about time we stopped being reliant on corporations for our social/escapist fun?
* - I admit to a Wayne's World style when approaching 'grind' as an adjective. "If it were a president, FFXI would be Grindaham Lincoln." "If it were a tank, it would be an M1 Grindams." And... so on. ... Imma go to a corner in shame, now.
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From their FAQ;
Is Blade & Soul going to be a grinding game like some other MMOs?
Executive Producer James Bae said it best: "I assure you, Blade & Soul will never run out of content to keep players engaged in the game. This game will not be a repetitive grind fest."
Of course it's all in the eye of the beholder... "not a grind fest" could mean something completely different to them than it does to us.
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Emphasis mine. I will admit that, Liefeld-esque female characters aside, it's reasonably pretty, at least as pretty as I found Aion. But I found Lineage 2's NA localization beta to be pretty as well at the time. 'Pretty' does not make a good game.
Pure speculation incoming:
The industry, thankfully, seems to be moving away from grindalicious* games. This may be why so many Eastern market games are trying to make inroads into the huge NA and EU gamer/MMOer markets: The market in SE Asia is saturated, and these games need to grow to show they're still viable. (If you're not growing, you're dead. Which makes little sense, but there you go.) So we get pushes to the Western markets of some of the bigger titles: ArchLord, Evo, Lineage, Aion, Tera, and now B&S. Each one, hoping to be able to suck some of the numbers from WoW. But here in the West, grindtastic MMOs are also falling in popularity -- WoW is almost unrecognizable now compared to when it launched. The grindariffic games are trying to show they're still popular when I suspect their popularity is waning, perhaps even rapidly.
So you get games -- both East and West -- with gimmicks, some new system or feature that's supposed to be, not a WoW-killer, but a relevance-maker. Something to put the game on the map. With B&S, it appears to be... well, softcore porn.
This is a troubling trend, because it means it may take what we know of as MMOs out with the grindish games.
I for one am not ready to surrender the kind of creativity and fun I had with CoH to poorly-understood market forces. This is why I support Plan Z, and games like Vendetta Online, and efforts to address NCsoft's boneheaded decision. Because isn't it about time we stopped being reliant on corporations for our social/escapist fun?
* - I admit to a Wayne's World style when approaching 'grind' as an adjective. "If it were a president, FFXI would be Grindaham Lincoln." "If it were a tank, it would be an M1 Grindams." And... so on. ... Imma go to a corner in shame, now.
Pretty most certainly does not make a good game, but it sure does grab attention. It can also make a reasonably okay game venture into "good" territory. What I meant was that this game may generate a lot of hype, even if it sucks and even if it is softcore porn.
Said, City of Heroes is undoubtedly the better game... but those who have never played it may not see it that way if they're just looking at screenshots. In this way, I agree and support Plan Z. But I also want to save Cities.
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From their FAQ;
Of course it's all in the eye of the beholder... "not a grind fest" could mean something completely different to them than it does to us.
Well said. I don't think any new game could match the eight years of content and innovation that have gone into City of Heroes.
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From their FAQ;
Of course it's all in the eye of the beholder... "not a grind fest" could mean something completely different to them than it does to us.
It also reflects what I mentioned as (what I see as) a growing backlash or at least "growing dislike" against grindfests. I distinctly remember people complaining about grinding in games being mocked and belittled, being told 'deal with it' and 'learn to play' and similarly... witty comments. The conceit was that if a game wasn't grindy, it wasn't worthwhile, and that nothing you could get in 30 minutes would be worth the same as something you had to grind through 3 or 30 hours. It was also a sign of... something, I'm not sure what, but some flavor of online machismo, to be able to say you 'survived' some level of grinding.
We're moving away from that, thankfully. But this is having an effect on publishers. Hence why someone can ask the above question and not be mocked, and the publisher is trying hard to give the impression that B&S won't be grindy. I find it very hard to believe that a game made by a Korean developer* out of that whole corpus of games that define 'grind' would not itself be grindy. We'll see -- more to the point, other people will see. They'll need a mass of content at least the equal of TOR to accomplish that and a content release schedule more punishing than CoH's. :'(
STO made it possible to hit level cap in a month of fairly strong semi-casual playing. (In fact I found myself wishing it were a little more grindy. Then I tried to play a Klingon. :P ) Such a change from FFXI! And the sentiments behind the model seem to be sticking.
* - Team Bloodlust. Really? Really?! Sigh.
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It also reflects what I mentioned as (what I see as) a growing backlash or at least "growing dislike" against grindfests. I distinctly remember people complaining about grinding in games being mocked and belittled, being told 'deal with it' and 'learn to play' and similarly... witty comments. The conceit was that if a game wasn't grindy, it wasn't worthwhile, and that nothing you could get in 30 minutes would be worth the same as something you had to grind through 3 or 30 hours. It was also a sign of... something, I'm not sure what, but some flavor of online machismo, to be able to say you 'survived' some level of grinding.
We're moving away from that, thankfully. But this is having an effect on publishers. Hence why someone can ask the above question and not be mocked, and the publisher is trying hard to give the impression that B&S won't be grindy. I find it very hard to believe that a game made by a Korean developer* out of that whole corpus of games that define 'grind' would not itself be grindy. We'll see -- more to the point, other people will see. They'll need a mass of content at least the equal of TOR to accomplish that and a content release schedule more punishing than CoH's. :'(
STO made it possible to hit level cap in a month of fairly strong semi-casual playing. (In fact I found myself wishing it were a little more grindy. Then I tried to play a Klingon. :P ) Such a change from FFXI! And the sentiments behind the model seem to be sticking.
* - Team Bloodlust. Really? Really?! Sigh.
Part of me likes grinding because I like feeling like I'm getting somewhere. I have bittersweet nostalgia for Cities' old leveling curve. I am also a huge of fan of having a Blastoise before fighting Lt. Surge (and other similar feats). But I dislike when it's required. Being said, I'm not sure what bearing this has on Cities... because Cities has moved so far away from grinding.
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Well, they just lost the gay male gamer contingent.
Big tits? Big whoop. ;D
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Well, they just lost the gay male gamer contingent.
Big tits? Big whoop. ;D
Oh, emu approves.
Even moreso that this is your first post. Welcome, friend!
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Part of me likes grinding because I like feeling like I'm getting somewhere. I have bittersweet nostalgia for Cities' old leveling curve. I am also a huge of fan of having a Blastoise before fighting Lt. Surge (and other similar feats). But I dislike when it's required. Being said, I'm not sure what bearing this has on Cities... because Cities has moved so far away from grinding.
Mostly because whether a game is grindy or not affects the business model. If a game is extremely grindy, you can get away with reducing replayability of content, being assured that some percentage of players will play to the bitter, bitter level cap. If it's not grindy, you have to either rely on player churn -- new players replacing old, bored players -- or be constantly developing new content; or a mix of both. Some games (like STO) started out supplementing the lack of content -- and the lack of ability to retain players -- with microtransaction stores. (STO has since added in a grindier mechanic as well as part of Cryptic's purchase by Perfect World.)
I'm not completely against grind. It can be gratifying and satisfying to complete a marathon, so to speak, within the game, of killing HOW MANY?! Rikti monkeys. ;D But grind can go to unhappy places with surprising speed.
To relate it to the topic at hand, a 'realignment of company focus' could, in addition to putting out a softcore porn game, easily mean they want to keep more players playing their games, which means more grind. Lemon boobs, legs taking up half the body's height, and lolicons can only occupy players for so long. I would say to count on a microtransaction store being involved with the game as well, even if it will be subscription.
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From their FAQ;
Of course it's all in the eye of the beholder... "not a grind fest" could mean something completely different to them than it does to us.
Maybe it just means they toss you into PvP right from the start (since PvP seems to be the only reason Korea plays MMO's AT ALL), instead of making you level up first before you can be proficient at it.
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NC-Softcore
"Oh, God, my sides! /applause."
Thank'ya.
"LOL!! Quote of the Month! Dare I incorporate that into my next cartoon panel I wonder?"
All yours, consider it public domain. Perhaps it's Mr. Kim's secret identity. Sounds like a rapper, doesn't it? Do a rap song and give us the B&S bimbos Carameldansin to it, maybe.
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Oh gawd, a hip hop artist named NC Softcore doing a parody of "Get Low"?
Someone doooooo eeeeeeet!!
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Oh gawd, a hip hop artist named NC Softcore doing a parody of "Get Low"?
Someone doooooo eeeeeeet!!
Ahahaha. YES.
Musical talent, why can I not find you!
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"...a parody of 'Get Low?'"
Or maybe "Gangnam Style?"
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Well, they just lost the gay male gamer contingent.
Big tits? Big whoop. ;D
Granted this is a straight person talking, but my understanding was that the men are nearly as objectified, but the male physique doesn't lend itself to the same sort of "jiggle." Unless you're into bears. Not much market share, there, probably.
Anyway, I believe the comment was something along the lines of there was "even something for the ladies." The dude was pretty shredded.
While there was plenty of opportunity for some costume combinations that were just wrong (one friend still has a toon he made in the first couple of issues of the game, when there was a combination in the color palette that allowed you to make what amounted to a nude Barbie doll), CoH has always been family friendly. I will not be letting this B&S into my house, and I'm not all that prudish or on the "Boycott NCSoftcore" bandwagon.
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"...one friend still has a toon he made in the first couple of issues of the game, when there was a combination in the color palette that allowed you to make what amounted to a nude Barbie doll...."
Uh... I think that was me. You use the mesh pattern, pink dots on yellow (or vice versa) to create flesh tone. I didn't use it for nudes, though. It's how my monster-legged martial artist got her thong and gave my Silence of the Lambs redsider "Mister Hide" his shiny leather woman-suit.
Obviously I'm not prudish either, and I still say B & S is in unforgivably bad taste.
I'll stop hijacking the thread now.
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* - Team Bloodlust. Really? Really?! Sigh.
They just really like WoW Shamans. >.>
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Uh... I think that was me. You use the mesh pattern, pink dots on yellow (or vice versa) to create flesh tone. I didn't use it for nudes, though. It's how my monster-legged martial artist got her thong and gave my Silence of the Lambs redsider "Mister Hide" his shiny leather woman-suit.
Greg? ;)
I've gone through several variations of costume combinations in CoH, and it's possible to make some pretty pederast-y toons of characters, especially with the boob slider and variety of youthful face options. That route may have been a mistake on my part. The shake and jiggle is still a line we can follow.
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Maybe it just means they toss you into PvP right from the start (since PvP seems to be the only reason Korea plays MMO's AT ALL), instead of making you level up first before you can be proficient at it.
Nope, they are sticking to the classics there from the sound of it.
Is Blade & Soul PvP, PvE, or some combination of the two?
The gameplay of Blade & Soul is initially "player-versus-environment" (PvE), but players can choose a faction, enabling them to participate in "player-versus-player" (PvP) combat.
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"...a parody of 'Get Low?'"
Or maybe "Gangnam Style?"
**APPLAUSE** For the NCSoftcore idea plus all the rest!
THIS is what I was talking about in regards to ridicule and humor being weapons. THIS is COMEDY GOLD right there! Post that above to as many facebook pages and gamer forums as you can find, PLUS the NCSoft page - both Korean and English!
Who knows - couple of years down the line, we may force the company to spend valuable resources and time renaming and rebranding itself if we keep this up! :D
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**APPLAUSE** For the NCSoftcore idea plus all the rest!
THIS is what I was talking about in regards to ridicule and humor being weapons. THIS is COMEDY GOLD right there! Post that above to as many facebook pages and gamer forums as you can find, PLUS the NCSoft page - both Korean and English!
Who knows - couple of years down the line, we may force the company to spend valuable resources and time renaming and rebranding itself if we keep this up! :D
Four thumbs up.
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"Four thumbs up."
Praise from Caesar, or Calpurnia as the case may be.
"THIS is COMEDY GOLD right there! Post that above to as many facebook pages and gamer forums as you can find, PLUS the NCSoft page - both Korean and English!"
Folks, have mercy on me, I am new-media-illiterate. I have a facebook page because a friend said I absolutely must have a facebook page, and she set it up. I'm clueless. And I can't even post on the CoH page 'cause I wasn't subbed the morning NC-Stalker backstabbed us. (Five year vet and now they won't even let me play the Astoria content.)
Run with it, folks. Call it my contribution to the cause.
"Greg?"
Nope, Jack. Parallel development strikes again.
"...it's possible to make some pretty pederast-y toons of characters, especially with the boob slider and variety of youthful face options."
As Cryptic said regarding the Marvel suit, you can do that with a pencil too. The CoH costume creator is just that versatile. B&S's graphics obviously cater to shall we say... exotic tastes.
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They just really like WoW Shamans. >.>
But only Horde Shamans, not Alliance.
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But only Horde Shamans, not Alliance.
Still think Heroism has a better sound effect. But it doesn't matter now anyway since they gave it to Mages and Hunter pets (wtf?).
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But only Horde Shamans, not Alliance.
Can't blame them for that. 8)
Still think Heroism has a better sound effect. But it doesn't matter now anyway since they gave it to Mages and Hunter pets (wtf?).
Aw c'mon, you KNOW Hunters needed more love. >.>
Bless their ninja lootin', huntard little hearts.
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Can't blame them for that. 8)
Aw c'mon, you KNOW Hunters needed more love. >.>
Bless their ninja lootin', huntard little hearts.
Hey, SOME of us don't keep our pets on Aggressive and actually TALK to the Rogues and Shamans before we roll on a piece of leather!
*grins* (Are you kidding, my husband's main is a Shaman, and *HE* is the number cruncher - he tells me what I should roll on. That is, when we played WOW. Yes, my ranged main is a Hunter. My melee/tank main is a Paladin.)
Aaaaanyhow. Hi, jack, glad you could join us, it's time to return to the topic at hand now.
I think we should use the NCSoftcore more in-game - It made a few people clean their monitors when I was playing last night.
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I think we should use the NCSoftcore more in-game - It made a few people clean their monitors when I was playing last night.
As well it should. =) It's gotten a few comments when I've used it. And there've been a few nods of understanding when they see Blade & Soul.
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Let's see... do we have a list of the NCSoft memes?
NCsoft - MMO Killer / Game Killer
NCSoftcore
For Blade and Soul -
Boobs and Sluts
Boobs and Shame
Breasts and Shame/Sluts
Oh - yesterday I came up with something in-game that I haven't mentioned here yet.
Caveat - it's a CHILDISH JUVENILE CHEAP SHOT and I'm well aware of it. But I couldn't resist.
"Taek-Jin Kim - Because he's gonna 'Taek' all your games away!"
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Boobs and Skin?
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I still like Blade In Hole 8)
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A google search of "NCSoftcore" led to some amusing results. Their own posts refer to "NCSoft's core technology," "NCSoft's core [sic] of engineers," and best of all, "NCSoft's core values."
I recommend some B&S freeze-frames with the caption, "NCSoftcore's values."
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I just read NCSoft's "mission statement" page, and particularly the "CEO Message"...and I'm afraid I was compelled to do another quotes gag ;)
(https://i.imgur.com/Gtr0X.jpg)
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Like!
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Oh - yesterday I came up with something in-game that I haven't mentioned here yet.
Caveat - it's a CHILDISH JUVENILE CHEAP SHOT and I'm well aware of it. But I couldn't resist.
"Taek-Jin Kim - Because he's gonna 'Taek' all your games away!"
Unfortunately the 'ae' is pronounced like the 'a' in 'add'.
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From their FAQ;
Of course it's all in the eye of the beholder... "not a grind fest" could mean something completely different to them than it does to us.
They also said that all that was needed to make it appeal to a Western audience is altering the reward and spawn rates. So, once again, they clearly have no idea what they're doing in the West. NCSoftcore seems to be the gaming industry's equivalent of the Ugly American - blithely assuming their cultural norms are universal. And maybe that's a good thing, or with Nexon's investment they might require developers to add tentacle technology so that can more fully penetrate the Japanese market.
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They also said that all that was needed to make it appeal to a Western audience is altering the reward and spawn rates. So, once again, they clearly have no idea what they're doing in the West. NCSoftcore seems to be the gaming industry's equivalent of the Ugly American - blithely assuming their cultural norms are universal. And maybe that's a good thing, or with Nexon's investment they might require developers to add tentacle technology so that can more fully penetrate the Japanese market.
....I see what you did there. >.>
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....I see what you did there. >.>
So did I, and what has been seen cannot be unseen. :o
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So did I, and what has been seen cannot be unseen. :o
OK, my brain read this in the voice of, I believe, Maurice LeMarche and replayed the video of the impossible boob physics. I think I hate you a little bit, right now. ;)
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Oh BTW - ran into this guy on Virtue tonight. Think we can do something with this? (I asked permission and he's cool with it. His bio is even a subtle satire on NCSoft already!)
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=www.dvandom.com%2FCoX%2Fmsgangnam1.JPG)
(https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v28/Logan_Darklighter/MS_Gangnam.jpg)
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Oh BTW - ran into this guy on Virtue tonight. Think we can do something with this? (I asked permission and he's cool with it. His bio is even a subtle satire on NCSoft already!)
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=www.dvandom.com%2FCoX%2Fmsgangnam1.JPG)
(https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v28/Logan_Darklighter/MS_Gangnam.jpg)
Suggest it on the NC Gangnam style thread.
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Looks like an opponent for the NCzilla character.
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They also said that all that was needed to make it appeal to a Western audience is altering the reward and spawn rates. So, once again, they clearly have no idea what they're doing in the West. NCSoftcore seems to be the gaming industry's equivalent of the Ugly American - blithely assuming their cultural norms are universal. And maybe that's a good thing, or with Nexon's investment they might require developers to add tentacle technology so that can more fully penetrate the Japanese market.
LOL!
With B&S physics engine I have no doubt they'd be able to make some seriously wriggly tentacles. :roll:
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And maybe that's a good thing, or with Nexon's investment they might require developers to add tentacle technology so that can more fully penetrate the Japanese market.
Re-quoted and re-bolded for additional ironic humor. 8)
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So did I, and what has been seen cannot be unseen. :o
Sorry, I had just visited NCSoftcore's corporate website and they have the motto under Integrity "DEDICATED TO CREATING THE PLEASURE" (emphasis added). With the definite article in there and the all-caps font I read it as "The Pleasure" and envisioned a Doctor Who style group along the lines of The Flesh.
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Sorry, I had just visited NCSoftcore's corporate website and they have the motto under Integrity "DEDICATED TO CREATING THE PLEASURE" (emphasis added). With the definite article in there and the all-caps font I read it as "The Pleasure" and envisioned a Doctor Who style group along the lines of The Flesh.
"Dedicted to creating the pleasure."
:o
Well, that explains Blade & Soul.
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"Dedicted to creating the pleasure."
:o
Well, that explains Blade & Soul.
[Scene]
View from behind of a man in a three-piece suit entering a ultra-modern glass-fronted building with the NCSoft logo over the door.
The camera follows him into a very crowded lobby and before we get a good look at the occupants it immediately pans up to follow his gaze to a marquee above the desk reading...
PASSION
THE POWER TO INSPIRE THE WORLD.
...as we watch it changes...
NEVER-ENDING CHANGE
THINK BEYOND IMAGINATIONS.
...and then...
INTEGRITY
DEDICATED TO CREATING THE PLEASURE.
The man drops his gaze to the lobby and its occupants, and the camera pans back to take in the whole room.
We see a large group of identical Korean men, recognizable as Taek-Jin Kim; all in drag with silicone-padded bras visible, badly applied lipstick and blonde wigs so poorly attached we can see the tape holding them on. The men-in-drag take notice of the man in the suit and turn towards him. They smile mechanically, maniacally, in unison, and walk forward with exaggerated hip swings and bouncing "breasts" while saying...
"Welcome to NCSoft, we are The Pleasure."
[Note: Those three slogans are taken from NCSoft's website. Notice that they got the grammar on the latter two a bit wrong? Using a definite article with pleasure, making it seem like a proper noun and using the plural "imaginations" despite seemingly referring to the abstract concept. It appears this $5B company with intentions of expanding its business in the West can't even be bothered to hire a truly fluent English speaker to do their English-language website content.]
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[Scene]We see a large group of identical Korean men, recognizable as Taek-Jin Kim; all in drag with silicone-padded bras visible, badly applied lipstick and blonde wigs so poorly attached we can see the tape holding them on. The men-in-drag take notice of the man in the suit and turn towards him. They smile mechanically, maniacally, in unison, and walk forward with exaggerated hip swings and bouncing "breasts" while saying...
"Welcome to NCSoft, we are The Pleasure."
ANd now I'm thinking of 'The Rocky Horror NCsoft Show.' "Give yourself over // to The (absolute) Pleasure...."
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We see a large group of identical Korean men, recognizable as Taek-Jin Kim; all in drag with silicone-padded bras visible, badly applied lipstick and blonde wigs so poorly attached we can see the tape holding them on. The men-in-drag take notice of the man in the suit and turn towards him. They smile mechanically, maniacally, in unison, and walk forward with exaggerated hip swings and bouncing "breasts" while saying...
"Welcome to NCSoft, we are The Pleasure."
AAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiiiiieeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!
*runs screaming off into the distance*
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I got yer "realignment of company focus" right here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IM5rgsmtO4k (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IM5rgsmtO4k)
(note the "uncanny valley" face on top of the pole-dancing stripper's neck. Codewalker was particularly creeped out by that)
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It's not just the face. The whole body is just distorted enough, the motions just off enough, to throw it right into Uncanny Valley. Worse, the motions are overtly sexual in the gross and crass sense. There's nothing alluring, nothing sexy about it. It's like it's designed to be unpleasant to look at AND make you feel bad for being caught in any way associated with it.
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I got yer "realignment of company focus" right here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IM5rgsmtO4k (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IM5rgsmtO4k)
(note the "uncanny valley" face on top of the pole-dancing stripper's neck. Codewalker was particularly creeped out by that)
I think you just burned my retinas with that one...
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I got yer "realignment of company focus" right here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IM5rgsmtO4k (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IM5rgsmtO4k)
(note the "uncanny valley" face on top of the pole-dancing stripper's neck. Codewalker was particularly creeped out by that)
Please tell me crab spider helmets come with eyeball-scours. I sorely need them now.
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I got yer "realignment of company focus" right here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IM5rgsmtO4k (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IM5rgsmtO4k)
(note the "uncanny valley" face on top of the pole-dancing stripper's neck. Codewalker was particularly creeped out by that)
You know... I don't think it's possible to go too far in ridiculing that game.
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I got yer "realignment of company focus" right here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IM5rgsmtO4k (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IM5rgsmtO4k)
(note the "uncanny valley" face on top of the pole-dancing stripper's neck. Codewalker was particularly creeped out by that)
... On some level, I thought that we were being hard on Blade & Soul because it was being pushed to replace our beloved CoH.
With this... oh, hell, no. I don't think we were being hard enough.
I like cheesecake, yes. No need to go into detail about that. But this... this is just... it's just pandering. You expect to see this sort of thing in Second Life. And with the awful anatomy of the character, I just... what.
I'll be genuinely yet unhappily surprised if this doesn't garner B&S an M rating.
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... On some level, I thought that we were being hard on Blade & Soul because it was being pushed to replace our beloved CoH.
With this... oh, hell, no. I don't think we were being hard enough.
I like cheesecake, yes. No need to go into detail about that. But this... this is just... it's just pandering. You expect to see this sort of thing in Second Life. And with the awful anatomy of the character, I just... what.
I'll be genuinely yet unhappily surprised if this doesn't garner B&S an M rating.
If it doesn't, maybe we should write/email whichever organization that decides those ratings and complain...
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I got yer "realignment of company focus" right here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IM5rgsmtO4k (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IM5rgsmtO4k)
(note the "uncanny valley" face on top of the pole-dancing stripper's neck. Codewalker was particularly creeped out by that)
Argh... so tempted to click it... but at work... *scans surroundings... clicks!*
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Ah, it's basically one of Aion's dances - except performed poorly. (I think it's Aion at least, except they don't do the whole bending over in that version)
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Quick splice that video with one of a Coh Character face palming. Then text Is that what replacing CoH? Then youtube!
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KV2UPa44w8&feature=related
For full race exhibit... Comments?
I'd say I could tolerate Dynasty Warrior Online's dance emotes better than these...
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Saddest thing for me is the background is actually rather pretty. Well, apart from when the cranes take off from the trees it looks like the animation is missing half its frames ;)
I watched this video and kept wanting the mincing bimbo to get out of the way so I have a look at the scenery...and it suddenly reminded me of something - you know that shark image where the guy's complaining he was trying to watch the water?
Well, I couldn't resist a bit of tinkering... ;)
(https://i.imgur.com/mny3C.jpg)
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For some reason her face in that screenshot reminds me of a Tim Burton movie. O.O
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Quick splice that video with one of a Coh Character face palming. Then text Is that what replacing CoH? Then youtube!
Let me know when this is up, I'm laughing already just at the thought and think it would be a cool, clever why to get the word out on this aspect of our efforts. I'd so post it to my FB friends in a second.
Just my two cents, but I think it needs a set-up graphic. I'd go into it with something like: NCSoft is doing "a realignment of company focus" with it's release of Blade & Soul. Then play the stripper video and/or some of the walking animations I've seen to. Then the Facepalm CoH guy and your text.
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I Don't have the Video editing program to set that up. Would have to be someone else project.
I like the idea of having the quote of NCsoft anouncing the refocus and then having the ..(shivers).. Dancing/walking animation. Then cut to the Coh face palming.
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Man, all those female toons need to complete their dance emotes is a stripper pole...
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those make the Nelf dance in WoW look tame. :o
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I've seen the pole-dancer emote that got put in Tabula Rasa.
Frankly, I think the Tabula Rasa pole dancer was tame...and more attractive...than this.
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I got yer "realignment of company focus" right here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IM5rgsmtO4k (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IM5rgsmtO4k)
(note the "uncanny valley" face on top of the pole-dancing stripper's neck. Codewalker was particularly creeped out by that)
I've never been happier to be gay.
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I've never been happier to be gay.
But are you also pretty and witty?
(Sorry, I had to! Don'thurtme)
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A friend gave me this fine link.
http://gomakemeasandwich.wordpress.com/2011/09/21/blade-and-soul-youre-doing-it-wrong/
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Someone really needs to make those Video ideas!
And her is another have the Dance video playing and overlay the sound with http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyhrYis509A (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyhrYis509A)
That would be pointing at the fact these B of S figures are Fakes.
and another anti-Blade of Souls video
Video showing the oversexed style then cutting to a World of Warcraft Goblin in front of Goldshire's bar. Then the audio of the goblin saying "Damn that's F**ked up."
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But are you also pretty and witty?
(Sorry, I had to! Don'thurtme)
Damn straight! um..err..
(I sing that to my friends all the time.)
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You know what's bad... BARBIE IS MORE BELIEVABLE!
On something completely different... here a cheer us up song. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_LPJllaogU&feature=relmfu (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_LPJllaogU&feature=relmfu)
Need a shot of that monster attacking the city with the NCsoft cap on!
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You know what's bad... BARBIE IS MORE BELIEVABLE!
We've essentially been playing with virtual Barbie and Ken dolls for years. Okay, customizable Barbie and Ken dolls with powers. CoH isn't entirely blameless--we affectionately refer to Desdemona as "Captain Hotpants" for a reason--but even our scantily-clad female characters aren't typically put on crass display like that. Captain Hotpants' press pictures aside, the closest thing we have to that sort of objectification is the Carnival, and that's subversive.
And deliciously creepy, when you think about all that it implies about the Carnies, and about modern America. If America had a better track record vis a vis women's rights, the Carnival of Shadows would lose a lot of their narrative power. They're able to beguile men and women alike precisely because we're willing to accept attractive female figures--even (and perhaps especially) those deprived of identity--at face value. They gain power over people precisely because of an imbalance that has historically existed in our culture. We need to take that moral to heart.
You know, if I had experience with video-editing software, I could make that point--the Carnival of Shadows as a po-mo reconstruction of the "demon lover" fables--into a vlog post.
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I'm talking about the Barbies physical Proportions.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/06/barbie-real-woman-proportions-mildly-terrifying_n_1749204.html
Compared to a real human the barbie is freakish. Compared to B&S figures Barbie is not so freaky.
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I've always LOVED the Carnival! Along with Malta they are my favorite enemy group lore wise.
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The laughable thing to me is that while yes, it's perfectly possible to make completely nude toons (male or female) in CoH (brown skin works), and it's also perfectly possible to make nude toons in Champions Online (little easier than CoH as it happens, more colour options), in BOTH cases, they end up looking like plastic dolls because (of course) that's effectively what they. The figure meshes in CoH and CO are smooth.
However, the same CANNOT be said of the female figure meshes in Blade and Soul - even CLOTHED the meshes display...bits. Bits which really shouldn't be visible on a clothed figure.
I remember some while ago when I was part of the Morrowind modding community and tangentially involved with the Better Bodies mod (I actually worked on texturing Khajiit heads, but I digress), there was quite the debate about whether the boob meshes should have nipples or not. In the end, the mod was eventually released in 2 forms : 1 with smooth bits and permanent underwear, and the other with anatomically accurate boobs (and male tackle) and naked skin because naked is, after all, naked.
Point is, this was a modding community whose purpose was to make more realistic "better bodies" to replace Morrowind's rather naff ones, and we chose ultimately to leave it to the player as to whether they wanted PG or full on bits.
In Blade and Soul, half the costumes look to me like they've been sprayed on to those bizarre knobbly lemon boobs...seems Barbie bodies aren't even a choice offered by the game's developers.
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Can someone smack me over the head with Segev's press release? I have a few places I want to send it, and I could swear it was somewhere in this thread.
Thanks.
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Major thought... why not The View? The ladies over there would have a Field Day with this. Not sure how to contact them, but Whoopi has a Facebook page. https://www.facebook.com/pages/Whoopi-Goldberg/181582881853740 (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Whoopi-Goldberg/181582881853740)
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Can someone smack me over the head with Segev's press release? I have a few places I want to send it, and I could swear it was somewhere in this thread.
Thanks.
Last time I found it it was by searching "Segev press release"
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Last time I found it it was by searching "Segev press release"
Wait, you mean I don't have to scan through whole threads page by page? <facepalm>
Sorry. It'd been a long, strange day. :)
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Major thought... why not The View? The ladies over there would have a Field Day with this. Not sure how to contact them, but Whoopi has a Facebook page. https://www.facebook.com/pages/Whoopi-Goldberg/181582881853740 (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Whoopi-Goldberg/181582881853740)
Idea heard and wrote a Facebook message to Whoopi. Might want to try the others as well. Flood the inbox!
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We've essentially been playing with virtual Barbie and Ken dolls for years. Okay, customizable Barbie and Ken dolls with powers. CoH isn't entirely blameless--we affectionately refer to Desdemona as "Captain Hotpants" for a reason--but even our scantily-clad female characters aren't typically put on crass display like that. Captain Hotpants' press pictures aside, the closest thing we have to that sort of objectification is the Carnival, and that's subversive.
And deliciously creepy, when you think about all that it implies about the Carnies, and about modern America. If America had a better track record vis a vis women's rights, the Carnival of Shadows would lose a lot of their narrative power. They're able to beguile men and women alike precisely because we're willing to accept attractive female figures--even (and perhaps especially) those deprived of identity--at face value. They gain power over people precisely because of an imbalance that has historically existed in our culture. We need to take that moral to heart.
You know, if I had experience with video-editing software, I could make that point--the Carnival of Shadows as a po-mo reconstruction of the "demon lover" fables--into a vlog post.
My battle cry when fighting carnies: "For pity's sake.... EAT SOMETHING!!"
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I'd like to compliment the moderators. I was just about to report a creature-that-lives-under-the-bridge post, but it vanished before I could finish. Well done!
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Now is the time.
Misogyny Speech (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2012/10/17/heres-the-speech-that-prompted-australias-misogyny-definition-change-video/)
Between the video I linked to above, and Romney's "Binders Full of Women", it is time to push the Blade and Soul debacle further into the spotlight.
The cause for CoH being shut down in lieu of a grotesquely sexualized and demeening parody of women should resonate well in the current mindset.
From Malala Yousufzai (prayers for her continued recovery) to Pauley Perrette (NCIS's adorable Abby) getting punched in the face for trying to stop a man from beating a woman (she's okay, she is very much against bullying/violence of any kind), there is a current running through the mindsets of everyone... we should try and touch it.
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Khep? Your link above doesn't work.
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Love those copy/paste from mobile phone errors... :P
The link has been fixed. Sorry about that.
I had no less than 4 phone calls and a text message while trying to write that.
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edit: Before reading my off-topic rant below, let me add something useful: http://stormlord.us <--- both press releases I've made are here. The one about media day is a little out-dated; I will see about making a new version that isn't doubling as an invitation to the 20th./edit
*resistance to political bait failed*
Normally, even when I think somebody is blowing something out of proportion in order to justify taking offense because they want to be offended by something, I can at least see the logic chain (even if I find the premise faulty) that gets them from what actually happened to "that's offensive!" But I literally cannot see how this is in any way offensive, other than "Mitt Romney said it, and I am professionally obligated to take offense at anything the Republicans say."
How else do you review candidates than by getting piles, stacks, sheafs, reams, or files full of potential people to fill roles? Is there something about arranging this information into binders - I'm assuming of the three-ring, loose-leaf variety - that makes it more offensive than, say, if he'd gotten "CDs full of women?"
If anything, the fact that Obama apparently never gets binders full of applicants for jobs and just divines them from thin air is more frightening, to me. It indicates he doesn't take the job seriously. (Of course, I think he and Biden are lying about their methods, if only by omission and implication that they do NOT do something similar, but that's beside the point.) I mean, what, are Obama's more-golf-games-than-any-other-president actually divination rituals, with candidates' pictures on the golf balls and each hole labeled for a particular job?
...sorry. The professionally offended crowd really annoy me, as does anything that smacks of total illogic. And this is both. I'll shut up now. ^^;
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Must resist.... must..
As for the Romney thing... why would he need to request applications of woman? Wouldn't he have go at least ONE possible female applicant before asking for "Women Only" records? In a way it's this to much like...
We need to show we aren't against (insert race here) so get me any (Race term) we can find so the voters know we aren't races. In this case it would be sexist.
We need to show women we are fair to women. Quick get me a binder of women we ignored before! Hurry we got an election to win.
So the question is why didn't those women get the job in the first place. Why NOW when he was going to run for office did he need to make sure he filled a spot with a woman?
Wouldn't a better thing to say "I don't take sex in account when hiring an employee. Simple as that." But then people would look at who he employed.
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(https://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y38/eabrace/th_im-watching-you-focker.jpg) (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y38/eabrace/im-watching-you-focker.jpg)
As long as you guys keep it civil in here, we'll keep the thread open. But tread lightly.
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Forgive me I am weak. Okay Focus people only NCsoft Bashing! Political stuff go outside!
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Taking this to private messages.
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Much appreciated. :)
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:o
And I just wanted to use the current media climate to push our agenda...
:-[
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Yeah, you've gotta be careful about the political refs, though, because they can polarize a public we'd rather unite. For instance, when somebody was suggesting "/em holdtorch" real-life photos to be shared and made into a sort of meme, I thought of puttling an empty chair on a lawn and putting a torch next to it with the caption, "See? Even the President is supporting #SaveCoH!" but I knew it would risk offending Obama supporters.
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Yeah this is between us and NCsoft(core). Not everyone is in the Political sphere of the American race. have to take in account other nations as well who members might not get the angle your presenting. Keep focus on NCsoft it's tight lip operations.
Unite against a common foe! Stay focused on that cause and avoid hot buttons like Politics, religion, and stuff like that.
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Yeah this is between us and NCsoft(core). Not everyone is in the Political sphere of the American race. have to take in account other nations as well who members might not get the angle your presenting. Keep focus on NCsoft it's tight lip operations.
Unite against a common foe! Stay focused on that cause and avoid hot buttons like Politics, religion, and stuff like that.
I've been following the US politics with great amusement actually, those memes of the binders actually made it into the local news - so while at work I opened a news webpage to be greeted by a leering Bill going "Tell me more about these binds full of women..." - a good way to start the day! =P
But yeah, it's also important to stay focused on why we're here!
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Maybe what he meant to say was he likes to put binders on women. 8)
Yeah, you've gotta be careful about the political refs, though, because they can polarize a public we'd rather unite. For instance, when somebody was suggesting "/em holdtorch" real-life photos to be shared and made into a sort of meme, I thought of puttling an empty chair on a lawn and putting a torch next to it with the caption, "See? Even the President is supporting #SaveCoH!" but I knew it would risk offending Obama supporters.
Heh, with the number of times I've seen this forum referred to as "the Barricade", I think we've got some Les Mis fans here, and probably a lot of people have seen the "One Day More" parody that was done by the cast. Still waiting now for "Empty Chairs." ;)
On-topic... I think we've going over the same fears that we did with the CNN/Fox discussion. It seems a lot of the 'big weapons" that we haven't tried swinging yet are double-edged, including an idea of my own that I'm withholding until after the 30th. There's only so much the little guy can do before they need to get the help of the big guy, and we're nearing that point. Unfortunately, that's making contracts with demons, and there's no predicting whether or not it's going to do more bad than good.
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Indeed we all know that if you play with fire you risk getting burned.
But dag wouldn't the bon fires burn brightly!
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Maybe what he meant to say was he likes to put binders on women. 8)
Heh, with the number of times I've seen this forum referred to as "the Barricade", I think we've got some Les Mis fans here, and probably a lot of people have seen the "One Day More" parody that was done by the cast. Still waiting now for "Empty Chairs." ;)
On-topic... I think we've going over the same fears that we did with the CNN/Fox discussion. It seems a lot of the 'big weapons" that we haven't tried swinging yet are double-edged, including an idea of my own that I'm withholding until after the 30th. There's only so much the little guy can do before they need to get the help of the big guy, and we're nearing that point. Unfortunately, that's making contracts with demons, and there's no predicting whether or not it's going to do more bad than good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYizXBQ5EQA
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Well, regarding Fox/CNN, the point there was NOT to be afraid of either. Ignore the politics.
The point here is to avoid invoking politics in a way that will seem to "side" our movement with one party or the other. Or even one philosophy (liberal/conservative) or the other.
If we can get positive support from either side? EXCELLENT!
We do not, however, want to in any way hint that we're AGAINST either side. Because, frankly, as a movement, we're not. I'm a staunch conservative and a proud supporter of the Tea Party movement, and I'm sure there are far-lefties around here somewhere who would disagree with me on nearly every fundamental principle. Perhaps quite vehemently. But we're all trying to save CoH, because who doesn't like superheroes and supervillains and stories of good triumphing over evil?
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City of Heroes is right down to it Trusting and working togeather.
Heroes Joining teams to battle foes, teams working together to bring down the Giant Monsters!
All origins all powers all At unite!
Heroes, Vigianties, Rogues, Villains all worked together to stop the Rikti we can work together to stop the MMOKILLER!
Every view believes in basic facts. Protecting the children, that Blade and Sole game is not for the young. Or the young at heart!
Every view believes in building basic morals in the young. Stand up for Liberty! Stand up for what is right! All it takes for evil to win is for good men/women to do Nothing! City of Heroes/Villains teaches you that even if you are broken you can still stand tall. Even if you are blasted by cosmic rays and your atoms became nuclear you can be who you want to be!
But what are we fighting for? A 8 year old game? NO we will be alright if they say the game will go down once a City of heroes 2 launches. We are fighting for our rights as a community to keep something of our community alive. As the song Ballard of TonyV says. It's not about a Game, or XP!
This is a game where a mother or father KNOWS their child would not be exposed to GORE (mortal kombat, Duex Ex and many more) but at the same time when the little one asleep or still playing they can log in and enjoy the game as well. A very rare thing these days.
That what we want to Keep. Not the Hellions, not the Arachnos, we want a game were no matter what view, age, race, nation or biological makeup is you are welcomed. We are one of the few games that encurages players to work together. OR if your like me and run by himself and still have a good time!
This is what Plan Z strives to recreate. IF all else fails. Till then we will push on a Game by the player, For the player, Of the player! Few things bring those forces together and when they do they change worlds. Like all those that fell before us fighting for the very right to strive to be what they want to be we must carry on.
No matter our own views we all agree we have the right to have those views. We have the right to disagree and work together to defend each other!
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Well, regarding Fox/CNN, the point there was NOT to be afraid of either. Ignore the politics.
The point here is to avoid invoking politics in a way that will seem to "side" our movement with one party or the other. Or even one philosophy (liberal/conservative) or the other.
If we can get positive support from either side? EXCELLENT!
We do not, however, want to in any way hint that we're AGAINST either side. Because, frankly, as a movement, we're not. I'm a staunch conservative and a proud supporter of the Tea Party movement, and I'm sure there are far-lefties around here somewhere who would disagree with me on nearly every fundamental principle. Perhaps quite vehemently. But we're all trying to save CoH, because who doesn't like superheroes and supervillains and stories of good triumphing over evil?
Agreed. No matter what side of the political divide we fall on, we here can agree on one thing: CoH is something we all believe to be worthwhile, that we would like to see it continued. Everything else? Minutia. =)
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Well, regarding Fox/CNN, the point there was NOT to be afraid of either. Ignore the politics.
The point here is to avoid invoking politics in a way that will seem to "side" our movement with one party or the other. Or even one philosophy (liberal/conservative) or the other.
If we can get positive support from either side? EXCELLENT!
We do not, however, want to in any way hint that we're AGAINST either side. Because, frankly, as a movement, we're not. I'm a staunch conservative and a proud supporter of the Tea Party movement, and I'm sure there are far-lefties around here somewhere who would disagree with me on nearly every fundamental principle. Perhaps quite vehemently. But we're all trying to save CoH, because who doesn't like superheroes and supervillains and stories of good triumphing over evil?
My name is Hawthorne Grimm, and I approve this message.
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How else do you review candidates than by getting piles, stacks, sheafs, reams, or files full of potential people to fill roles? Is there something about arranging this information into binders - I'm assuming of the three-ring, loose-leaf variety - that makes it more offensive than, say, if he'd gotten "CDs full of women?"
Just have to point out one thing here: "CDs full of women" means something else entirely. I slept on the couch for a week when my wife found mine... :-[
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Back on topic...
Here's a new meme to spread for B&S.
"Blade & Soul - The One Handed Game. Cause that's how it's meant to be played."