Titan Network

Graveyard => Save Paragon Retirees => Save Paragon City! => Topic started by: TonyV on November 13, 2012, 09:55:17 PM

Title: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: TonyV on November 13, 2012, 09:55:17 PM
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: blue storm on November 13, 2012, 10:07:30 PM
Tony, thanks, as usual for taking the time to keep us posted. The Titan Network is and will remain our beacon of hope in these difficult times.

And since we are heroes, we will stand tall and remain long after the lights have gone dark over the skies of Paragon, waiting for the moment where we will soar again over Atlas Park (33) !
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: WildFire15 on November 13, 2012, 10:44:27 PM
Thanks for the update Tony. Good to hear some of Paragon Studios' former employees have found work.
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: HEATSTROKE on November 13, 2012, 10:54:10 PM
Thanks Tony..

 Its not just a game.. I made a toon called Sunstroke in honor of my first child. Two years old and he would sit on my lap at the PC and press the space bar to watch His level 50 Shield/Fire tank jump up and down..

 Its not just a game to some of us..
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: CFIndustries on November 13, 2012, 11:04:11 PM
Thanks for the update. And all the best of luck to everyone brave and talented enough to soldier on with Plan Z. May the lawyers ignore you, the donations support you, and great talent find you.
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: Cinnder on November 13, 2012, 11:40:14 PM
Thanks very much for the update, Tony.  You may not be specifically leading some threads of this effort, but you remain our overall "spiritual" leader, so it's good to hear your eloquent voice again.
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: NecrotechMaster on November 13, 2012, 11:47:51 PM
thanks for the update tony, i expected about as much since i been keeping track with a few of the specific threads such as the stockwatch

to throw out the little bit of villain speak:

*twirls evil mustache* everything is going according to plan... *evil laugh*
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: Minotaur on November 14, 2012, 12:08:07 AM
Several more of the devs have actually found work:

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=298279 is the thread that's being updated, current state below.

Sean "Dr. Aeon" McCann confirmed today he is working on Star Trek Online over at Cryptic, at least according to his Twitter account.

Andy "Zwillinger" Belford is now at Electronic Arts.

Fire Man (aka Bass Ackwards) is now at Trion Worlds.

Phil "Synapse" Zeleski is working for Cryptic Studios.

Hosun "Black Pebble" Lee is working for Epic Games.

Nate "Second Measure" Birkholz is working for Z2Live.

Jeff "Arbiter Hawk" Hamilton is also at Cryptic Studios.

Leo "Honey Badger" Braz de Cunha is at Gazillion Entertainment.

Destin Bales is a Senior Producer at Riot Games.

Neal Kettler is a Software Architect at Riot Games.

Jason Lee is a UI Engineer at Storm8.

Andy Maurer is Online Engineer at Sledgehammer Games.

Tim "Black Scorpion" Sweeney is at Capcom.

Keetsie "Tunnel Rat" Braz da Cunha is at Toys for Bob.

Quote
Second of all, work is still being done on reverse engineering the server.  This work is going very well.  I honestly think at this point it's not a matter of if anything can be salvaged, it's a matter of how much and the legalities of the situation.  It's definitely something we'll be following up on and letting people know about as soon as possible.

This really troubles me as the legalities are not in our favour. I'm not sure I can associate myself with an effort that is doing something which is IMO illegal. This needs to be COMPLETELY separate from Titan or Plan Z does, otherwise I will find it very difficult to participate. The way the law is, people have been extradited from the UK to the US for less than this and no I'm not joking.
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: Surelle on November 14, 2012, 02:34:19 AM
Thanks a whole bunch for the update, Tony!

And I'm glad so many former devs have found other work-- even though it breaks my heart to see them all broken apart like that.  And it sure doesn't look like there's much of Paragon Studios left to bring another game to fruition through kickstarter or what-have-you....  Oh well, I'm glad they safely landed on their feet, and all those others games will be so much better off for them all being there....
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: MishaFox on November 14, 2012, 03:13:51 AM
Thanks for the update! My own thoughts on what NCSoft is in Bunker mentality. They have closed their mind to doing anything new or different. All they are doing is hunkering down, ignoring the whole thing and hoping December 1 comes soon!  I am reminded of the one Vietnam battle when a firebase was attacked. The commanders in charge of the south Vietnamese troops ran into a bunker sealed the doors shut and ignored the whole battle. They didn't come out till the fight was over.

Me heart and prayers go out to Moonfyire101 and her father.
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: LT. Couper on November 14, 2012, 04:44:41 AM
Thanks much for this update. It's just plain mind-boggling that NCSoft can't see how ending CoH has brought us even closer together as a community. In any case, now matter what goes down Nov. 30th, one way or another, City of Heroes will rise again.
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: Codewalker on November 14, 2012, 05:03:13 AM
This really troubles me as the legalities are not in our favour.

Oh, how quickly we forget.

I'm assuming that you're typing that message on a PC running Windows, and/or a Mac with an Intel chip inside it?

Let me tell you a story. A story about two tiny unknown little companies, who in 1982, reverse engineered the IBM PC BIOS and built compatible systems. One of those was CDP, the other, Compaq Computer Corporation. The resulting explosion in popularity of the clones, not the original, caused it to overtake the single-manufacturer designs and cemented it as the foundation of what would become the PC revolution.

In 1986, a small chip manufacturer that IBM had been using to second-source the 8086 and 80286 had their contract abruptly terminated by Intel (probably because IBM was no longer the primary consumer of their chips). Instead of giving up, they started from scratch and reverse engineered the 80386, eventually producing a competing version. They did the same for every new feature that Intel added, eventually coming up with improvements of their own that Intel was forced to integrate or fall behind. The resulting processor war caused prices to drop dramatically, while rapidly advancing the technology much faster than it would have with Intel resting on their laurels. If you haven't guessed yet, the company in question was Advanced Micro Devices, better known as simply AMD.

There are many other examples as well. MS-DOS and PC-DOS (and CP/M for that matter). Xerox and Mac/Windows. The list goes on.

Yes, it can be a legal minefield and those companies eventually lawyered up, but it's a sad state of affairs that a few software giants have managed to lobby and brainwash people into thinking that the very thing they built their empires on is outright illegal. Being in constant irrational fear is no way to live.

See also: Samba, OpenOffice, etc.

Quote
This needs to be COMPLETELY separate from Titan or Plan Z does, otherwise I will find it very difficult to participate.

Well, hate to break it to you, but that along with other projects is something that Titan Skunkworks has been working on since long before Plan Z was a glimmer in anyone's eye. Splitting Plan Z off into its own legal entity is a good idea anyway for a variety of reasons.

If NCSoft wants to spend money for the sole purpose of harassing some hobbyists who pose no threat to them and only care to preserve some fragment of the work that Cryptic and Paragon poured their hearts into for historical record and posterity, then they're free to do so, and no amount of precautions can prevent that. That's assuming they can even pass muster with only rumor and people chatting on forums about the possibility to go on. It certainly won't help their stock value or public image, but it's their money to waste, especially since there isn't anything infringing for them to find.

However, I'd still prefer they didn't, because that would be annoying. So I for one am not going to mention it again, as that's something that can be done perfectly well behind the scenes.
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: Minotaur on November 14, 2012, 05:47:23 AM

If NCSoft wants to spend money for the sole purpose of harassing some hobbyists who pose no threat to them and only care to preserve some fragment of the work that Cryptic and Paragon poured their hearts into for historical record and posterity, then they're free to do so, and no amount of precautions can prevent that. That's assuming they can even pass muster with only rumor and people chatting on forums about the possibility to go on. It certainly won't help their stock value or public image, but it's their money to waste, especially since there isn't anything infringing for them to find.

However, I'd still prefer they didn't, because that would be annoying. So I for one am not going to mention it again, as that's something that can be done perfectly well behind the scenes.

They already harrassed the people who did this for TR, a C&D letter hardly costs a load of money.

It also gives NCSoft a reason to bash the Titan network (and plan Z by association) "they're a bunch of criminals anyway" etc.

I don't understand the Xerox reference (I used to work for them). Xerox merely decided they wouldn't fund the development of what would become Windows, so groups of ex Xerox research people went off and did it themselves as Apple/Microsoft with no particular clandestine activity.

Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: dwturducken on November 14, 2012, 05:51:29 AM
Yeah, I think the precedent is more in favor of NCSoft than it would have been in the heady days when a company called Cyrix had market share. Seriously, not meaning that to be as condescending as it sounds.
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: johnrobey on November 14, 2012, 07:37:34 AM
Thanks for the update, Tony.   Looking forward to further coordinated efforts to Save City of Heroes.
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: TonyV on November 14, 2012, 07:38:15 AM
They already harrassed the people who did this for TR, a C&D letter hardly costs a load of money.

If I'm not mistaken (fair warning, I haven't researched the TR emulator so I might very well be), it was probably because the Tabula Rasa emulator also emulated the IP within the game.  That is illegal; it's copyright and/or trademark infringement.  They can also nail you if you distribute the game client; it will be up to players to keep their copy of it.  Those have never been the intention of the emulator, though.  It will only emulate the server, and will contain no City of Heroes intellectual property.  (Unless at some point we're able to acquire the IP from NCsoft or whatever company ends up with it if they are sold or go out of business.)
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: downix on November 14, 2012, 07:47:17 AM
If I'm not mistaken (fair warning, I haven't researched the TR emulator so I might very well be), it was probably because the Tabula Rasa emulator also emulated the IP within the game.  That is illegal; it's copyright and/or trademark infringement.  They can also nail you if you distribute the game client; it will be up to players to keep their copy of it.  Those have never been the intention of the emulator, though.  It will only emulate the server, and will contain no City of Heroes intellectual property.  (Unless at some point we're able to acquire the IP from NCsoft or whatever company ends up with it if they are sold or go out of business.)
Of course if someone were to also clone the client and release replacement IP, they'd be up the creek.
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: Elfin on November 14, 2012, 01:49:15 PM
Thanks for the update Tony. COH both game, and community is one of a kind. I am not even sure a COH 2 would be close to the same. I have been playing a little in other games recently. STO, CO, and DCUO. They all have things I like, but none are the total package that COH delivers. Tomorrow I go back to work for 4 days, after that I will be playing COH a lot right up to the end. This week was fun. While I did play the before mentioned games some, I also played COH on Justice my home sever. We are continuing are weekly Hami Raids on Monday, and Wednesday nights, and Yesterday on Tuesday sadly we had are last Tanker Tuesday. I ended up doing 2 ITFs last night each with a different Tank. (Man Of Tomorrow, and Whittle Kenny) I wasn't there for the xp rewards, or anything was just having lots of fun. That is all it is about now. I don't bother with selling anymore, I give tons of influence away for events and such. I have billions why hoard it now. I would love for the game to be saved, and me broke. I made it once I can make it again. Like I say XP, Influence, Prestige, Salvage, and Recipes are not something I really care about now. I am just enjoying the fun, and the memories.
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: Codewalker on November 14, 2012, 02:01:26 PM
They already harrassed the people who did this for TR, a C&D letter hardly costs a load of money.

And what exactly would they tell us to cease and desist doing? Discussing possibilities on a forum?

The intent has never been to run or server or host anything on our site that would give anyone a target for something like that. That would be dumb.

If they want to send a C&D to Plan Z, there's nothing stopping them from sending one regardless of what else is going on. Anybody can write a letter just to be jerks.
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: pogoman on November 14, 2012, 02:19:58 PM
Thank you very much for the update, TonyV!

And a very special thank you to everyone doing something to help save City of Heroes! Even if you think it isn't much, every little bit DOES help. Stay vigilant and keep fighting the good fight!

My heart and prayers also go out to Moonfyire101 and her father.




We are heroes! This is what we do!
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: OzonePrime on November 14, 2012, 02:25:12 PM
Thanks for the update! Helps to keep the spirits up! :)
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: Minotaur on November 14, 2012, 02:34:36 PM
And what exactly would they tell us to cease and desist doing? Discussing possibilities on a forum?

The intent has never been to run or server or host anything on our site that would give anyone a target for something like that. That would be dumb.

If they want to send a C&D to Plan Z, there's nothing stopping them from sending one regardless of what else is going on. Anybody can write a letter just to be jerks.

OK, so what is the purpose of the reverse engineering project ? (something they may have civil remedies for as at least some the participants will have "signed" an EULA saying they wouldn't do it, I don't know how US contract law works, but I suspect they could do this in the UK).

What I'm seeing is a soft target for NCSoft to use in the publicity war "Why would you believe anything these guys say ? they signed an EULA not to reverse engineer the code and ...".

All I was saying was that they did have a go at the TR reverse engineers, I don't see them sending a C&D to plan Z, but they could to Titan Network if they appear to be officially involved in reverse engineering.
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: Rotten Luck on November 14, 2012, 02:38:32 PM
I agree with Minotaur.  Thought someone else can develop the reversed engineered CoH the less ties to Titan Network the better. 

And thanks for the Update Tony! 
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: Battle Ant on November 14, 2012, 02:39:22 PM

If they want to send a C&D to Plan Z, there's nothing stopping them from sending one regardless of what else is going on. Anybody can write a letter just to be jerks.

I could see NCSoft watching this project with a microscope. No doubt wanting a little payback for the bad PR.
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: Codewalker on November 14, 2012, 03:29:50 PM
Just want to point out that you could (and still can) download the client without ever agreeing to anything.

Also, a careful reading of the EULA reveals that it terminates with the game shutdown.

Depending on your jurisdiction, the DMCA provisions may override it anyway.

And again, if ncsoft want to waste resources chasing shadows, it can only hurt them. Not that I would condone elaborate decoy operations or anything like that.
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: Omega Mark V on November 14, 2012, 03:48:55 PM
Thanks for the update tony!

We are indeed a family of gamers, that this MMO has brought together. As long as we don't give up, and work together, we can get things done!

We've made a big statement so far, let's keep it up!
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: CFIndustries on November 14, 2012, 04:36:22 PM
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: Segev on November 14, 2012, 05:04:50 PM
We're actually taking great pains to use nothing that can rightfully be considered IP. While NCSoft could, theoretically, kill our project just by suing frivolously, it would take sufficient gall to risk dismissal with prejudice, I think and hope. We will be retaining legal counsel, and relatively soon.

The costume creator is of our own design, and we're taking great pains to make sure we're not copying anything that would be copyrightable by NCSoft in it by making our own costume pieces and deliberately avoiding having them resemble theirs in any infringing fashion. (Obviously it's hard to avoid having "spikes on the shoulders" not be vaguely similar in that they are spikes...on shoulders...but I don't think you can copyright the very concept thereof, so we should have plenty of clear latitude.)

The power sets, the UI, everything is going to be our creation. We're working to capture the feel of playing the game, but we're working hard to do it without copying anything directly.
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: Rotten Luck on November 14, 2012, 05:52:30 PM
Costume parts would be something that would need to be studied so we know what not to make. 

Truth I'm with you about the reverse engineering thought treading on thin Ice.  Besides any Emulator would just be the basic game what made it special is Us the fellow players and the player community that would welcome a newbie.  Can't get that on a private server.
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: BattlerockX on November 14, 2012, 06:17:11 PM
Sean "Dr. Aeon" McCann confirmed today he is working on Star Trek Online over at Cryptic, at least according to his Twitter account.

Fortunately the STO timeline is such that there are no iconic characters alive for Sean to have killed off.
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: BattlerockX on November 14, 2012, 06:18:28 PM
Thank you for the update Tony.
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: Minotaur on November 14, 2012, 06:19:48 PM
We're actually taking great pains to use nothing that can rightfully be considered IP. While NCSoft could, theoretically, kill our project just by suing frivolously, it would take sufficient gall to risk dismissal with prejudice, I think and hope. We will be retaining legal counsel, and relatively soon.

The costume creator is of our own design, and we're taking great pains to make sure we're not copying anything that would be copyrightable by NCSoft in it by making our own costume pieces and deliberately avoiding having them resemble theirs in any infringing fashion. (Obviously it's hard to avoid having "spikes on the shoulders" not be vaguely similar in that they are spikes...on shoulders...but I don't think you can copyright the very concept thereof, so we should have plenty of clear latitude.)

The power sets, the UI, everything is going to be our creation. We're working to capture the feel of playing the game, but we're working hard to do it without copying anything directly.

Warhammer did "chaos spiky bits" on the shoulders long before NCSoft so they clearly couldn't have copyrighted that. I'm very comfortable with everything Plan Z is doing. I don't have a big problem with the reverse engineering project in itself, it's the problems it might cause for plan Z by association that I worry about.

And again, as Gangrel and I have said, the question is "If not for a private server, why reverse engineer ?".
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: epawtows on November 14, 2012, 06:25:10 PM
Warhammer did "chaos spiky bits" on the shoulders long before NCSoft so they clearly couldn't have copyrighted that. I'm very comfortable with everything Plan Z is doing. I don't have a big problem with the reverse engineering project in itself, it's the problems it might cause for plan Z by association that I worry about.

And again, as Gangrel and I have said, the question is "If not for a private server, why reverse engineer ?".

I can point out one reason;  if you want to avoid PlanZ costume part looking too much like CoH parts, you need to know what the CoH parts look like.  We are trying to get screengrabs of everything, but I doubt we'll get it all by the end of the month.

Less sure about the copyright issued with the character creator itself.  Obviously you can't copyright the concept of designing character by selecting Female -> Lower Body -> Skirts; would need legal beagles to figure out the details.  Would help to know what other game's creators look like.

Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: ahmpizzedoff on November 14, 2012, 06:38:23 PM
Thanks Tony..

 Its not just a game.. I made a toon called Sunstroke in honor of my first child. Two years old and he would sit on my lap at the PC and press the space bar to watch His level 50 Shield/Fire tank jump up and down..

 Its not just a game to some of us..

Same here. Four years ago when my grandson was 2, I made him two characters, Just 2 and I'm 2, and he'd sit on my lap pressing that spacebar and giggle. He's been playing ever since and he's just as good as anyone out there with his now incarnate 50s. When I told him CoH was going away he was sad but as with any 6 year old he now has "other things" like his XBox.

It was always great fun "teaming" with him and watching his toon, as he used to say "Zoom to get the bad guys!" This wasn't just a game. It was family fun!
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: Blackbird71 on November 14, 2012, 07:34:28 PM
With regards to the legality of reverse-engineering servers, it's probably a good idea to take a look at those who have done it before.  Two examples I've seen are Earth & Beyond and Star Wars: Galaxies (pre-CU).  Both of these have largely rebuilt the game servers, and offer them publicly with easy to find websites; and companies like EA, LucasArts and SOE are not exactly known for being light on litigation, so the emulator projects must be doing something right.

As I understand it, they get around the legal issues by only providing the server code, which is 100% original code.  In order to play with their servers, you are required to have a legal copy of the client; either original game discs or proof of a digital purchase and the corresponding installation files.  Players either have these from when the original game was live, or they pick up copies of the discs cheap on ebay.  As long as the emulator teams do not distribute the client, or alter it in any way, they can legally distribute their own server code and host it with no legal issues.

Of course, I'm an engineer, not a lawyer, so I could be mistaken, but I think this would be something worth looking into.
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: Segev on November 14, 2012, 07:48:23 PM
That is for Project Z, but why (and this is my own opinion) would TonyV (or whoever it is) be reverse engineering the servers if it wasn't to indeed release a private server?

Now, you might say "So we know what we can and cannot do without infringing for Project Z", that is horse crap considering that you are using *off the shelf* components to make Project Z. If Project Z is liable to infringe for networking technologies, then surely *anything* that uses those components would also be infringing.
My apologies for not being clear. Yes, that is for Plan Z, and only for Plan Z.

We are in no way affiliated with any reverse-engineering efforts save for sharing the common forum with Titan Networks. We're using and adapting open-source server and client architectures to create our Plan Z products. If there is copyright infringement, it is likely highly coincidental and would get every user of the Multiverse server system in trouble. Any judge is likely to throw out an attempted suit over that technology with prejudice.
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: TinFoil on November 14, 2012, 08:54:18 PM
Thanks for the update guys. While I think we're all hoping for a last minute reprieve, it is great to know the reverse engineering is going well.

I'm no lawyer, but unless someone opened up a server and charged people to join, I don't think it would be worth the time and effort for NCSoft to care. If/when the server code is released to the wild, as long as no one has hacked into NCSoft to steal code, would it really be worth it for NCSoft to fight? If I ran my own home City of Heroes server, would it make any sense for NCSoft to knock on my door and tell me to stop; or sue me?

I personally want to thank all the talented and devoted coders out there working on this effort. I want to be able to show people at least some of the wonderment that was City of Heroes.
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: Ammon on November 14, 2012, 10:07:51 PM
I'm no lawyer, but unless someone opened up a server and charged people to join, I don't think it would be worth the time and effort for NCSoft to care.
Sadly, the thing with intellectual property and trademarks, etc, is that if you let it slide for one person, you lose the ability to hold the claim.  Someone could entirely rip off their code and if they could cite evidence in court that NCsoft had knowingly not protected its rights before, they couldn't be done.  That's an oversimplification, but the basis is that you have to actively fight all infringements, or you lose the rights to figh any.
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: CFIndustries on November 14, 2012, 11:14:30 PM
Sadly, the thing with intellectual property and trademarks, etc, is that if you let it slide for one person, you lose the ability to hold the claim.  Someone could entirely rip off their code and if they could cite evidence in court that NCsoft had knowingly not protected its rights before, they couldn't be done.  That's an oversimplification, but the basis is that you have to actively fight all infringements, or you lose the rights to figh any.
This is correct, and is first-year training for any consumer goods product company employee, especially Marketing and Legal. One of the famous instances of this in practice is Xerox.

They never fought the generic use of "xerox" meaning "any photocopy" and then lost the ability to sue when larger companies started using it as a generic term. If I recall, Jello has similar issues.

It's why, on the flip side, Apple Computer was tooth-n-nail with Apple Records for so many years and why LEGO gets cranky about any use of it's name, as does PANTONE, as do many other companies. And that's just on a brand name. It goes deeper, such as the shape of the Clorox Bleach bottle, for example. Or as Apple pointed out, the "bounce" when you reach the end of a touchscreen. Every. Little. Thing.

So yeah, like it or not, if NCSoft is smart, they will, because they are essentially forced to by US Law, immediately whip out the lawyers at the slightest whiff of infringing useage. Which means the reverse-engineered server could be an issue. Not enforcing your ownership rights it is to tacitly approve of any engfringement, which NCSoft seems VERY reluctant to allow.

Now even with all that, the Plan Z ("spirit of CoX") effort sounds interesting. But I assume it's going to be a while before it's ready for prime time. I just hope y'all have enough marketing in the right places, or good word of mouth, so folks like me who drop from the scene will hear about it and give it a whirl. :)
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: TonyV on November 15, 2012, 12:12:42 AM
Okay, regarding infringement, I have to say this yet again.  We're not infringing on anything.  It's that simple.  Reverse engineering is not infringement.  It is not only legal, it is an extremely common practice used by a lot of reputable companies to provide compatibility with other products.  If we wrote a server that included the game's missions, characters, etc., that would be infringing.  But that's not what we're doing.

Regarding Plan Z, in case it's not clear, this is an entirely new game.  When I say "spiritual successor," I'm referring to the things that are commonly regarded as making City of Heroes a fun and engaging game--a fun community, an expansive character creator/editor, a focus on solo and casual aspects to the game, the superheroic theme, etc.  I am not referring to a literal sequel to the game using the intellectual property of City of Heroes.  In fact, we have had a few conversations in which we have agreed that doing that is out of the question.  NCsoft does not hold any kind of rights to a game with a fun community, an expansive character creator, a focus on solo and casual aspects to games, or superheroic themes.  In fact, it is a little known fact (or shoot, maybe you do know it...) that rules to games are specifically exempted from copyright protection, so even if we wanted to use the same slotting system, inspiration system, power progression, etc., we probably could although for the sake of avoiding IP infringement all of that stuff might be called something different.  But to my knowledge (I'm not personally involved in the mechanics of the game), we're not even doing that.  Again, spiritual successor.  NCsoft would be stupid crazy to sue us to the point that I'd probably countersue for frivolous use of the legal system.

The point is, though, that we are not engaging in any kind of criminal behavior.  At worst, we are breaking the Terms of Service by digging into the protocols that the client and server use to communicate.  And if NCsoft is bound and determined to, they can cancel the 16 days left on the contract if they so choose.

If NCsoft really gets a stick in their craw and they want to chase us down legally for some perceived harm, they are more than welcome to do so.  I hope they're prepared to prove in court that we are infringing on their IP and the breach of contract has caused them some material damage.  In fact, while I'm not looking to deliberately antagonize NCsoft, part of me would think that it would be kind of funny if they did come after us because I assure you that such a story would make huge waves in the press, waves that they are desperately trying to avoid right now because they're already suffering a PR black eye over this whole ordeal.  "NCsoft Sues Players Who Invested Thousands of Dollars in Game"--makes a great headline, don't you think?  Believe me, I would pull out all of the stops in making sure that everyone knows that the people being sued are the very same people who contributed greatly to the game's success for the better part of a decade.  If you're thinking of playing Guild Wars 2, Blade and Soul, or Wildstar (if it ever actually gets released, which I kinda doubt it will), that headline would probably catch your attention.  So yeah, even if NCsoft thought they had a case against us (which they don't), I seriously doubt that they'd be looking to press the issue.  To be blunt, I think that NCsoft has far bigger problems right now as a company than anything we're doing with reverse engineering and/or Plan Z.

I don't mean to belabor the point, but if you're worried about NCsoft coming after us, please put your mind at ease.  Even if they do, it won't affect you personally, and I am certain that anything they try would be completely without merit.
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: Rotten Luck on November 15, 2012, 12:42:09 AM
One reason is to make sure the saved characters are compatible with the new game.  Or at the very least able to be adjusted to work in the new character creator.
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: Whiteseeker on November 15, 2012, 01:27:32 AM
Thanks for all the info. I hardly ever say anything on forums, but I been here for awhile(years) reading. Just wanted everyone here know that I am thankful for what is/has/will be done for the game, that will be a was, and the one I hope is to come.

TY.
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: Artillerie on November 15, 2012, 02:08:19 AM
Thank you for the clarification Tony.
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: downix on November 15, 2012, 02:09:16 AM
I thought that was just for the character costumes and not "build" sense.
No, build too. One of the plans is for pre-building your characters as an option. An imported character would still be level 1, but they would have their build pre-planned. Think Mids integration.
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: Electric Rage on November 15, 2012, 02:18:18 AM
 :)Greetings as a COH superhero from April of 2004 I would like to suggest if a new game is going to be developed with the best COH had to offer and then changes..then please have exciting music involved like what Two Steps From Hell produces. Also I would like to see power groups that reflect our fav comic book hero types from Marvel and DC and also upgrade the graphics to reflect the change in CGI engine development...just a couple of sugestions to be added to the rest..thanks.
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: downix on November 15, 2012, 02:44:52 AM
So sentinal+ was purely for the archiving and then reintegration of CoX characters for the "CoX server project" (not project Z) correct?
I don't know what Sentinal+ is for beyond archiving our characters in a format which can be parsed later. But if you have the data, why not use it I say?

It's existed a lot longer than PlanZ has.
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: P51mus on November 15, 2012, 03:06:09 AM
  In fact, it is a little known fact (or shoot, maybe you do know it...) that rules to games are specifically exempted from copyright protection, so even if we wanted to use the same slotting system, inspiration system, power progression, etc., we probably could although for the sake of avoiding IP infringement all of that stuff might be called something different.

There's a company that more or less based their entire business off of that.  They're called Zynga.  Doing it as blatantly and as often as Zynga does is strongly frowned upon, but it's legal, and Zynga still exists (though, last I heard they're not doing as well as they used to be.  Guess a company with no original ideas can only go so far).

Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: Golden Girl on November 15, 2012, 03:12:57 AM
Guess a company with no original ideas can only go so far).

For more proof, see the TORtanic :P
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: epawtows on November 15, 2012, 03:47:27 AM
So sentinal+ was purely for the archiving and then reintegration of CoX characters for the "CoX server project" (not project Z) correct?

It could serve other purposes.  If sometime in the next year or so NCSoft changes their mind and sells the CoH IP to another entity, but NOT the customer/player databases, then the Sentinal+ files would be only way to restore a character at anything other than level 1 (and even then an importer would be needed for it).
 

 
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: Codewalker on November 15, 2012, 03:56:55 AM
So sentinal+ was purely for the archiving and then reintegration of CoX characters for the "CoX server project" (not project Z) correct?

Sentinel+ was created to archive the essence of characters in an open format so that they might be used in the future for any one of a variety of possibilities. It wasn't created for any one of those in particular; that's why the XML format is easily readable.

Things that come to mind range from offline character viewers and or memorial web-page creation tools, to Plan D* (Community buyout of the game wholesale, but without the character database), Plan E (Community buyout of the IP, but without the code, relaunching on a reverse-engineered server), plan F (reverse engineered server software without the IP -- i.e. an empty world with the CoH mechanics on which to build new content, think architect on a much larger scale), plan G (a relaunch in the event NCSoft goes bankrupt or otherwise divorces itself from the IP), a rough concept importer for plan Z (wouldn't be exact of course), underground private servers which don't have a plan letter because Titan does not sanction them (but I'd bet you one will show up sooner or later even without our help), or even just so people can rest easier knowing that they have them backed up in cryofreeze and their characters won't die a digital death at the hands of NCSoft.

For the record the RE project also exists in order to find ways to open up access to things that the client doesn't need a server for because it already has all the assets locally. Things like the costume creator, or even a limited form of Mission Architect. Things that arguably we bought and paid for when we purchased the client in a box in a store.


* Those aren't official plan letters as we never really firmly set any other than A and Z, so I extrapolated. All I know is that Hardison dies in plan M.
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: TonyV on November 15, 2012, 04:30:50 AM
So why are you doing it? Be blunt and be clear about this please, because *ALOT* of people are wondering why you are reverse engineering the game servers and only assuming the worst. If you don't want this to happen, please tell people as to why you are doing it.

To be honest, I don't know what our long-term intention is yet.  Keep in mind that I *personally* am not working on this project.  Ultimately, I'm leaving what happens with it up to the people who are personally working on it.  Options range from as simple as providing a server that will allow you to run the costume creator to realizing a full-fledged private server with packages of unique content that players can play the game with.  Or somewhere on the spectrum in between.  Once we have something significant, we'll make a decision about what to do with it, consulting legal counsel if necessary to make sure we have our i's dotted and our t's crossed.  (Screw the j's and the people who put lines through their z's!)

So sentinal+ was purely for the archiving and then reintegration of CoX characters for the "CoX server project" (not project Z) correct?

Either/or.  Keep in mind that when Sentinel+ was released, we didn't know what the ultimate fate of City of Heroes would be.  I honestly thought that the game would be sold to another company (optimistically, to a re-formed Paragon Studios), but I didn't know if the user database--including the existing characters--would be transferred as part of the deal.  My thought was if everyone had to start from scratch, we could share the algorithm we used to generate the checksum with the new developers and give them the option of letting us re-import our existing characters.

But that didn't come to pass, so that option seems pretty much out the window for now.  So with Plan Z in the works, it has been mentioned the possibility of allowing people to import characters into the new game.  It won't be an exact one-to-one correspondence, but there might be some way to map various features over.

Other things the exports can be used for are letting people view the nitty-gritty back-end data that their character uses.  Even if we don't allow imports into Plan Z, or if someone wants to play another game entirely, they can look at it (it's just XML text) and use it as some sort of guide, maybe.  Or a year from now, if they get to wondering, "How many badges did Mr. Foomonkey have?  I can't remember..." they can actually go and look it up.  Or maybe we'll put out a simple little mobile game to tide people over until Plan Z is released and let people import the character names and really general characteristics ("It's a female dressed in yellow wearing a cape") to generate a little sprite icon or something.  Or I dunno...  People can use it for whatever they want.  I have plans to basically build the City Vault site that we never got from NCsoft (as I understand it, NCsoft failed us on that, not Paragon Studios--NCsoft handled all web sites and development that interacted with the user database), maybe I'll allow people to import their City of Heroes characters just as a historical shrine to them or something.  A lot of possibilities, but if Sentinel+ hadn't have been released, we would have had none of those options open to us.
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: Heavy Ion on November 15, 2012, 04:39:11 AM
Thank you TonyV and thank you to all the Titans working to save something of our world, even if it turns out to be a vastly different, parallel universe.
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: Zombie Hustler on November 15, 2012, 06:56:06 AM
Thanks for the update TonyV. Still playing, and wish I were able to do more to help try and save the game than I can/have thus far, but I appreciate all the effort you and so many others have been doing to keep the momentum going and to keep giving us hope.
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: ET3D on November 15, 2012, 07:56:05 AM
Thank you TonyV and thank you to all the Titans working to save something of our world, even if it turns out to be a vastly different, parallel universe.

Heh, beat me to it. :) I wanted to make such a post yesterday but postponed it to today. And you said it nicely. :)

But I'll say it again: I want to thank everyone working on continuing the legacy of CoH. And I want to thank Tony for being so positive and level headed. It always makes me hopeful to read your posts.
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: Clave Dark 5 on November 15, 2012, 09:48:02 AM
Still, we could use some people with skills that are harder to come by, such as graphics programming, digital art, and animation.

Maybe we should do a round of Kickstarter (or whatever site) and hire someone to do this work free-lance - not a permanent job, just someone here to do X things and then be done.
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: avelworldcreator on November 15, 2012, 02:58:41 PM
Maybe we should do a round of Kickstarter (or whatever site) and hire someone to do this work free-lance - not a permanent job, just someone here to do X things and then be done.
Plans for a Kickstarter or other funding methods are in the works. There is also a sponsorship program going on - with applicants! There's even a small game company contributing to the effort (may another software company but the owner is already heavily committed with other projects).
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: TonyV on November 15, 2012, 05:12:13 PM
Maybe we should do a round of Kickstarter (or whatever site) and hire someone to do this work free-lance - not a permanent job, just someone here to do X things and then be done.

The problem with a Kickstarter project is that you have to be quite a bit further along than we are right now.  You really can't just go there with a video saying, "I have an idea...", you have to have a detailed plan in place on how exactly you're going to accomplish your project.  Which is actually a good thing--I don't want people committing their hard-earned money to us before we actually have something to convince them that we're not just tilting at windmills, that we're actually committed to following through on this.

But fear not, because we actually have a really good team as we speak working on putting together some sort of demo that we can use to show off that we have the technical capability of making this happen, and a team working on developing a viable business plan that we can present to investors--including Kickstarter donators--for them to evaluate based on realistic expectations, not just the word of a bunch of people who want to save the spirit of a game they like.  :)
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: castorcorvus on November 15, 2012, 09:25:44 PM
Hey everyone. Been away for awhile (long story). At any rate, its cool that we are sticking together so far, but CoH closing is just around the corner. That Pixilated H-Bomb is gonna wipe out Paragon and scatter our ranks. Is there a way we can counteract this? I mean Titan is fine, but is seems the lack the "omph!" and chutzpah of a dev page like CoH had. We need an area that casual players can go and the see ideas being put forth without the time consuming forum scanning.
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: avelworldcreator on November 15, 2012, 09:31:14 PM
Hey everyone. Been away for awhile (long story). At any rate, its cool that we are sticking together so far, but CoH closing is just around the corner. That Pixilated H-Bomb is gonna wipe out Paragon and scatter our ranks. Is there a way we can counteract this? I mean Titan is fine, but is seems the lack the "omph!" and chutzpah of a dev page like CoH had. We need an area that casual players can go and the see ideas being put forth without the time consuming forum scanning.

There is! Go to the City Sunset section. There are several active efforts and brainstorming going on right now.
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: dwturducken on November 15, 2012, 09:32:59 PM
I believe this (http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/topic,6156.0.html) is the sort of discussion he's referring to.
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: avelworldcreator on November 15, 2012, 09:36:56 PM
I believe this (http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/topic,6156.0.html) is the sort of discussion he's referring to.

Indeed I believe you are quite right! Good find!
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: mikenovember on November 16, 2012, 02:44:33 AM
Thanks a whole bunch for the update, Tony!

And I'm glad so many former devs have found other work-- even though it breaks my heart to see them all broken apart like that.  And it sure doesn't look like there's much of Paragon Studios left to bring another game to fruition through kickstarter or what-have-you....  Oh well, I'm glad they safely landed on their feet, and all those others games will be so much better off for them all being there....

Having worked on such issues with software this isn't necessarilly the problem one might think.  They will need to erect a 'gardenwall' - essentially the team doing the disassembly cannot provide knowledge or technical basis to the team doing actual development.  The design/development teams will need to work off a type of 20 questions kind of arrangement when doing the reverse engineering this insures that none of the original IP is actually used and that patentable or trade secrets are not stolen.  Basically from a legal perspective it's perfectly legal for you to create completely NEW software which does the same thing - you just can't copy it.  This, of course does not apply to specific design, art or copyrighted works.  But something like a server technology, since it's already arguable that the work you're creating from is already copying someone elses concept... let's face it, client/server technology is not exactly new, we've had it for decades - so long as you're not directly copying it, and you're creating your own 'NEW' client server tech... you're in fairly good shape.

Now, as to the features and content for the client - you need to be careful. There's a lot of design stuff that has to be very carefully vetted to insure that it isn't shared with your design/dev team.  The same applies for the database section of the 'server' application.  But with a bit of insight and care you can often make a far superior product since you're not limited to the design descisions which were used in the original.   ;)
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: dreamghost on November 16, 2012, 06:56:48 AM
hugs, just hugs... and thank you
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: Tanglefoe on November 16, 2012, 02:46:54 PM
Thanks for the update.  I haven't posted much lately but I have been keeping tabs for posts like this.  I appreciate it.
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: Ice Trix on November 17, 2012, 12:52:29 AM
If I'm not mistaken (fair warning, I haven't researched the TR emulator so I might very well be), it was probably because the Tabula Rasa emulator also emulated the IP within the game.  That is illegal; it's copyright and/or trademark infringement.  They can also nail you if you distribute the game client; it will be up to players to keep their copy of it.  Those have never been the intention of the emulator, though.  It will only emulate the server, and will contain no City of Heroes intellectual property.  (Unless at some point we're able to acquire the IP from NCsoft or whatever company ends up with it if they are sold or go out of business.)

Does that (emulate server) mean not being able to much more than costume edit or being able to play missions etc?

Thanks for the update too.
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: Nightwatch on November 17, 2012, 06:16:21 PM
Just joined Titan Network today .. I am such a slacker usually.

Just wanted to say ty to TonyV and the team for their work on behalf of the CoX community.

More importantly I also wanted to send my very best wishes to Moonfyire101 and her dad.  My dad and mum are no longer with me and I still miss them.  All the best to your family.
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: MaidMercury on November 17, 2012, 06:40:36 PM
Thank you for the update. I'm happy some of the CoH staff have found other jobs.
A difficult thing to do in this economy.
Sorry to hear about Moonfyire101and her father. I will keep them in my prayers.

I still feel there's more to the story about CoH closing but I got the message.
I've been laid off work before and understand companies do what they do.

I still feel CoH is a victim of their own success, that game has come a long way.
NCSoft doesn't have any other game of interest to me....I don't see a substitute
anywhere else either.
Microsoft which is x100 bigger than NCSoft even let their old games be run by fans,
like Crimson Skies......NCSoft is disingenuous at best. If they're losing money-it's management
not the game itself.
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: caine6900 on November 17, 2012, 06:53:02 PM
Thanks for the update Tony. It will be a sad day when Dec 1st rolls around. No more playing my favorite hero(s) or Villain (s). Just hope the current project will be done at some point in the near future. So we can enjoy it and have fun.
My thoughts and prayers are will all that have lost those who are close to us. Take care!
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: TonyV on November 17, 2012, 09:39:11 PM
Thanks for the update Tony. It will be a sad day when Dec 1st rolls around.

Hey now, that's by birthday!
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: Sophronisba on November 17, 2012, 10:21:47 PM
Hey now, that's by birthday!

Does NCSoft know that? Because that's like the worst birthday present ever.
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: eabrace on November 17, 2012, 10:29:00 PM
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=i.chzbgr.com%2Fcompletestore%2F2009%2F6%2F11%2F128892126357010439.jpg)
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: Dasher on November 18, 2012, 06:14:41 AM
Thanks for the update, Tony!
Still grinding it out on Protector Server...
DASHER
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: Osborn on November 18, 2012, 10:55:00 PM
Does that (emulate server) mean not being able to much more than costume edit or being able to play missions etc?

Thanks for the update too.

Presuming somebody less scrupulous doesn't pirate the intellectual property, I don't even think you'd be able to log in without a zone to 'appear' in. But it might be possible for fans to make their own content which in itself wouldn't (shouldn't, anyhow) be illegal as long as their content was original.
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: JuneDeluxe on November 19, 2012, 07:59:26 PM
Thank you so much Tony for the update. It truly means alot!  :)
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: Death_Volt on November 20, 2012, 06:15:43 AM
Thanks for the update Tony! Glad to hear that many folks from Paragon have found jobs.  And LOL at NCSoft's stock drop...

It might be a long way off, but I'm already impressed at the work pouring into Plan Z. Really exciting stuff!
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: Sol Eternal on November 21, 2012, 02:23:00 AM
 I'm hoping the City can be saved. I just told my 8 year old son he can play as much as he wants until it shuts down. I've recorded some nice clips using FRAPS which you can find online (free trial). I've never been much into any online community but I posted a tribute and a short battle sequence on YouTube. The links are below if you are interested...They are "Journey Through Our City Of Heroes" and "Battle: Paragon City." I just don't want to forget.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5lE2uETMdI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvJFONxN7gY
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: saipaman on November 21, 2012, 09:53:36 AM
You can also use FRAPS to capture frames as images.

I've turned on this mode while on the server character selection screen.  I selected each character, waiting 15 to 30 seconds, to get a variety of stances.  After that, I selected the best views and I'm now using those as a screen saver.

I'm sure this will make me sad later on but right now it is pretty cool.

Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: epawtows on November 22, 2012, 08:29:09 AM
This may be a silly suggestion, but there is a /r/CityofHeroes on Reddit.  Not that it has a lot of traffic.  I made a comment in it about these forums and PlanZ;  but could someone who is more eloquent than myself say something over there?

Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: Sensate on November 25, 2012, 11:22:56 AM
Love and well wishes all ^_^

I am delighted we are pressing forward.
As so many have said, this is more than just a game to alot of us. And we do really appreciate all your efforts to help save it ^_^.

Prayers for Moonfyre and her dad

Sensate
- the lil reaper princess of Virtue-
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: Daimyoshi on November 25, 2012, 07:19:37 PM
I been under the impression that that Demorecord files will still play on the cliet without the server. has anyone tested that at all? I pretty sure it does wotk that way so you at least have that for a while.

I am confused a little how much of the program is actually on the server even?
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: ruintheslayer on November 25, 2012, 07:50:27 PM
Awesome Tony keep us posted I'll mossy over to Plan Z page and see if I can pitch concepts and ideas.
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: avelworldcreator on November 25, 2012, 08:49:58 PM
Awesome Tony keep us posted I'll mossy over to Plan Z page and see if I can pitch concepts and ideas.

"We thank your for your support." (Bartles & James).
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: srmalloy on November 25, 2012, 09:42:41 PM
Of course if someone were to also clone the client and release replacement IP, they'd be up the creek.

Reverse-engineer the server, to get the play experience. Reverse-engineer the client, to get a similar look and feel. If, in the process, we move to a more current graphics engine that lets us take the game places that the old engine was unable to support, that's all to the good, and further distinguishes the reverse-engineering from the original.
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: Victoria Victrix on November 26, 2012, 12:07:35 AM
I been under the impression that that Demorecord files will still play on the cliet without the server. has anyone tested that at all? I pretty sure it does wotk that way so you at least have that for a while.

I am confused a little how much of the program is actually on the server even?

The server (actually officially the mapserver) contains two things: the way to talk to your computer and everyone else's computer to tell you where you all are, relative to the map that lives on YOUR computer---and some of the NPC dialogue. 

This is why demorecords work even when you have no connection to the server.  All of that information is recorded in the file, allowing you to play it back via the game programming on your computer.
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: Kurukaze on November 26, 2012, 01:38:40 AM
Great, first post and already legal stuff:

1) The process of reverse enginieering software is not illegal at all. You create a piece of software on your own in that process. However, the resulting software may get you into some IP or patent trouble.

2) If the resulting reverse engineered server is not providing the IP but the IP is stored solely in the game clients of the connecting users, then the server does neither break copyright nor IP related laws. The IP was received via NCsoft's download servers and is not "completed" via the reverse engineered server, but brought back to be working after being disfunct by the manufacturer. In software, compare to the running and unprosecuted project SWGEmu, an emulation server for the disfunct MMO Star Wars Galaxies. In general this process can be compared to rebuilding a spare part for a classic car or a WW2 fighter (like the P51) that the original manufacturer cannot or does not want to provide any longer.

3) If the patents concerning the way game mechanics are too generic, lawsuits may get turned down - keep an eye on the lawsuit Worlds Inc. vs Blizzard for that one.

4) To prove that the reverse engineered server works in a to similar way compared to the original server software, NCsoft would need to reveal their source code.

5) Success of any C&D or comparable action highly depends on the location of the server, and you don't have to move the server to Uganda or Uruguay to gain a massive advantage: Germany alone would do, and in the same move takes care of the success concerning IP and copyright problems as well. Ask any frustrated lawyer of EA about this.

So basically, if the process running behind what we call the loading screen isn't much more than registering our chat-handles from local.ap to local.kr (e.g.) and copying information from the clients' HDD/SDD to the clients' RAM, there won't be much NCsoft could do against the RE'd server. It will just turn a lil more complicated if the server is adding IP-containing information to the clients' systems - if you don#t move to a zone with more user-orientated laws ;)
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: MishaFox on December 03, 2012, 07:18:23 AM
So where do we stand now that the original game is down?
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: NecrotechMaster on December 03, 2012, 07:22:43 AM
i think it be smart to wait at least this week before a status update to see what news awaits post-shutdown
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: dwturducken on December 03, 2012, 08:42:56 PM
Agreed. I would be surprised if we see anything this week, even from TF Hail Mary. This week will mostly be the "wrap up" articles as people articulate the last 72 hours.
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: eabrace on December 03, 2012, 11:36:06 PM
Yeah.  Best bet for this week is to take a break, breathe deeply, meditate, rest up - do whatever you need to do to recharge after the efforts we've already put into trying to save the game.

Then be ready to hit the ground running when Tony's ready with the next update.

(No, I don't know what that update is going to say.  Don't read too much into that.)
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: emu265 on December 04, 2012, 12:26:16 AM
Yeah.  Best bet for this week is to take a break, breathe deeply, meditate, rest up - do whatever you need to do to recharge after the efforts we've already put into trying to save the game.

Then be ready to hit the ground running when Tony's ready with the next update.

(No, I don't know what that update is going to say.  Don't read too much into that.)
but... but... you have orange dots, YOU MUST KNOW SOMETHING.
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: avelworldcreator on December 04, 2012, 12:30:43 AM
but... but... you have orange dots, YOU MUST KNOW SOMETHING.
Look like red dots to me. :)
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: corvus1970 on December 04, 2012, 12:49:21 AM
They are red-orange.

There, now everybody is happy! ;)
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: avelworldcreator on December 04, 2012, 12:59:24 AM
They are red-orange.

There, now everybody is happy! ;)

Works for me.  ;D
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: emu265 on December 04, 2012, 03:14:13 AM
Works for me.  ;D
BUT NOT ME.

I kid, I'm terrible with colors.  Only thing I'd say definitively is that they're different from our dots.
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: dwturducken on December 04, 2012, 03:15:44 AM
Meh. I figured they meant something, and if someone decides my color needs to change, they'll let me know. Until then...
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: Segev on December 04, 2012, 03:18:53 PM
I'm still trying to figure out what the number of dots means. I know the forum title goes from "minion" to "boss" based on post count. I'm not sure if the dot count does the same.
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: Codewalker on December 04, 2012, 03:22:07 PM
Looks like for anyone who's not in a special primary group like Titan Admin / Developer, the number of dots is tied to the post count member group. It tops out at Elite Boss / 5 dots with 250 posts, so fortunately that doesn't give people a reason to spam meaningless posts to inflate the count. *cough* Forum Cartel *cough*
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: Triplash on December 04, 2012, 03:48:26 PM
Only thing I'd say definitively is that they're different from our dots.

They've gone to plaid!

I'm still trying to figure out what the number of dots means. I know the forum title goes from "minion" to "boss" based on post count. I'm not sure if the dot count does the same.

Mine said "Underling" and had one dot until I hit 20 posts, then I levelled up to "Minion" and received my second dot. Not sure what I'll slot in it yet.
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: Victoria Victrix on December 05, 2012, 09:54:00 AM
Mine said "Underling" and had one dot until I hit 20 posts, then I levelled up to "Minion" and received my second dot. Not sure what I'll slot in it yet.

End Mod, of course.
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: spindisc on December 05, 2012, 10:21:25 AM
I have plans to basically build the City Vault site that we never got from NCsoft (as I understand it, NCsoft failed us on that, not Paragon Studios--NCsoft handled all web sites and development that interacted with the user database), maybe I'll allow people to import their City of Heroes characters just as a historical shrine to them or something.

This sounds nice. I had plans to do that myself but when I looked at the XML I failed when I tried to figure out how to match those names with the texture names in the piggs. Maybe there is a textfile in there that maps them together but I could not find anyone.

So, basically I wish this site would happen where you could upload your Sentinel+ XML file with an image of your character and out would come a nice page with all stats and info together with all the correct icons.

Do you need any help?
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: johnrobey on December 05, 2012, 11:04:49 AM
Do the titles and dots here really matter?  Other than noting red is admin, does anyone really care about this?  I've posted a lot here recently and now it says Boss, instead of Lieutenant or Minion.  To me, that's a big So What.  Now if I could be an ELITE or Juggernaut MINION that might mean something.  (totally joking)   ;)
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: johnrobey on December 05, 2012, 11:06:24 AM
End Mod, of course.

Heh!  Totally End Mod!  Good one!
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: Triplash on December 05, 2012, 01:12:03 PM
End Mod, of course.

That could work. Hmm, if only I had some sort of third party dot-planning tool...


Now if I could be an ELITE or Juggernaut MINION that might mean something.  (totally joking)   ;)

Oooh now I wanna be a Sniper. Yeah! Snipers are awesome! As strong as a Lieutenant, with only one attack and for some reason you forget how to defend yourself or walk around. Yep, livin' the dream.
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: dwturducken on December 05, 2012, 01:23:46 PM
Do the titles and dots here really matter?  Other than noting red is admin, does anyone really care about this?  I've posted a lot here recently and now it says Boss, instead of Lieutenant or Minion.  To me, that's a big So What.  Now if I could be an ELITE or Juggernaut MINION that might mean something.  (totally joking)   ;)

I was told that it means I'm worth more XP when I'm taken down.
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: johnrobey on December 05, 2012, 06:20:54 PM
I was told that it means I'm worth more XP when I'm taken down.

LOL
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: Codewalker on December 05, 2012, 07:44:05 PM
I was told that it means I'm worth more XP when I'm taken down.

I hate to have to be the one to break it to you...

But you were summoned here through a portal.
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: Kurukaze on December 05, 2012, 10:55:50 PM
NC's stock prizing reached a new 52-week low today - closed at 147,000 KRW, was down to 141,000 KRW even this day:

http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/chart?symbol=036570.KS

Any ideas how to get this diving even faster than it is already? GW2 related boards to inform about NC's financial problems?
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: corvus1970 on December 05, 2012, 11:18:29 PM
Wow, you can almost hear the stereotypical whistling-sound of an object being dropped from a high-altitude.
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: Pinnacle Blue on December 05, 2012, 11:29:07 PM
NC's stock prizing reached a new 52-week low today - closed at 147,000 KRW, was down to 141,000 KRW even this day:

http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/chart?symbol=036570.KS

Any ideas how to get this diving even faster than it is already? GW2 related boards to inform about NC's financial problems?

Class-action lawsuit for defrauding us?
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: TimtheEnchanter on December 05, 2012, 11:30:13 PM
For NCsoft: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbqvFFdyNqc
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: pikabko1000 on December 08, 2012, 06:47:06 AM
  Hi there I am trying to gather information regarding City of Heroes. I am doing what ever I can to talk to who ever I like to talk to and give my side of the story.. That Sad story on City of Heroes death 30 minute heart attack warning. a shocking cry out on the Freedom server on the worst day of my life. Some one crying out for FREEDOM<JUSTICE and So on on the Freedom Server he croted " NNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!"
well what a emotional break down happened that moment. Tears running out of eyes litterly. what Showes to prove what a great job Paragon studios had done. I will like to get Paragon Studios phone number if any one got it please give it. I had been trying to fid it my self
Its not easy. Paragon Studios Music Indstory and Paragon Studios Movie  I had talk to some one in a Paragon Studios reguarding this.
they do not know what the heck I am talking about. then I had to explain again what happend. Then I was ported that the Paragon studios I called is a music business. talk about wrong number! if any one got information reguarding Paragon Studios's phone number that is dealing with City of Heroes
please feel free to email me at pikabko3000@yahoo.com sorry got the name dose sound stupid. thats to try to stop spamming.



The other details and Ideas I like to look in to is off line mod for City of heroes. one problem a big one what to do about the PVP zone?
How can PVP can not be done on a off line mode? answer to that is use   Elete Bosses in its place

what about Updates new chaptors and powers and what not. put them on CD or DVD and sell it nation wide

what about NCsoft selling City of Heroes to a buyer? I do not see that comming at all. The hole point of Killing City of Heroes by NCsoft is to kill consuer rights of the USA and make room for something else for Korea China, Taiwan and so forth. Destroy the data. destory the servers
buy new ones and start over. leaving all of us to ponder about Champions online that I had done and I am in the heavy mood to kill the account on that.
I will like to talk to a head manager of COHTITAN what ca nbe done to buy City of heroes. get it back online before X-mas This year.
that will be a great X-mas gift will it be? if I can talk to head people on the subject get some ideas out on the move. rather then sitting hear typing all day long.
please let me know I will like to talk to a lot of people asap. I know there is a 4 to 6 hour gap to deal with
Iwill take any phone call that willo get my ideas and options on the table and force NC Soft out of the loop.
I am big time serious about doing some fast talking. Just not too fast the message gets lost
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: TonyV on December 08, 2012, 08:39:15 AM
Wow...  Okay, I'll try to parse that as best as I can.  Apologies if I've misunderstood anything.  :)

First of all, there is no Paragon Studios any more, so you will not be able to find a phone number or contact them.  It literally does not exist any more, so trying to find a phone number for it is like trying to find a phone number for Woolworth's or WebVan.  The developers and reps who worked there have mostly found new jobs, but you can still find some of them on Facebook, Twitter, and other social media outlets.

Second of all, I wish there were an offline mode for City of heroes, but the likelihood of that happening anytime soon is very slim.  There are some reverse engineering efforts underway, but even if they're successful, unless the reverse engineers acquire the IP rights from NCsoft, it will not contain any of the missions, characters, etc. from the original game.  There might be some illegal reverse engineering efforts underway that plan on using the IP without permission, but if so, I honestly don't know about it and, being illegal, couldn't endorse it even if I did.

As for getting the game back online by Christmas, the odds of that happening are virtually nil.  Even if NCsoft sold the rights and codebase to the game today, it would take at least a month or two for the transfer to take place, new servers to be set up, and the new systems launched.  That's why we were hoping so hard in September for talks to go through, so that all of that could have happened by November 30 and service would be interrupted.

As for how to help, keep an eye out for the Calls to Action that are posted in this forum.  Right now, the big one is to write letters to Disney (http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/topic,6354.0.html) in hopes that they will acquire the game from NCsoft.  Also, if you have any media contacts, by all means contact them to let them know what's going on; the more publicity we have, the better.  And of course, feel free to participate in discussions here about ideas and actions to get our message out and to keep in touch with former players.
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: johnrobey on December 08, 2012, 08:44:01 AM
  Hi there I am trying to gather information regarding City of Heroes. I am doing what ever I can to talk to who ever I like to talk to and give my side of the story.. That Sad story on City of Heroes death 30 minute heart attack warning. a shocking cry out on the Freedom server on the worst day of my life. Some one crying out for FREEDOM<JUSTICE and So on on the Freedom Server he croted " NNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!"
well what a emotional break down happened that moment. Tears running out of eyes litterly. what Showes to prove what a great job Paragon studios had done. I will like to get Paragon Studios phone number if any one got it please give it. I had been trying to fid it my self
Its not easy. Paragon Studios Music Indstory and Paragon Studios Movie  I had talk to some one in a Paragon Studios reguarding this.
they do not know what the heck I am talking about. then I had to explain again what happend. Then I was ported that the Paragon studios I called is a music business. talk about wrong number! if any one got information reguarding Paragon Studios's phone number that is dealing with City of Heroes
please feel free to email me at pikabko3000@yahoo.com sorry got the name dose sound stupid. thats to try to stop spamming.

The other details and Ideas I like to look in to is off line mod for City of heroes. one problem a big one what to do about the PVP zone?
How can PVP can not be done on a off line mode? answer to that is use   Elete Bosses in its place

what about Updates new chaptors and powers and what not. put them on CD or DVD and sell it nation wide

what about NCsoft selling City of Heroes to a buyer? I do not see that comming at all. The hole point of Killing City of Heroes by NCsoft is to kill consuer rights of the USA and make room for something else for Korea China, Taiwan and so forth. Destroy the data. destory the servers
buy new ones and start over. leaving all of us to ponder about Champions online that I had done and I am in the heavy mood to kill the account on that.
I will like to talk to a head manager of COHTITAN what ca nbe done to buy City of heroes. get it back online before X-mas This year.
that will be a great X-mas gift will it be? if I can talk to head people on the subject get some ideas out on the move. rather then sitting hear typing all day long.
please let me know I will like to talk to a lot of people asap. I know there is a 4 to 6 hour gap to deal with
Iwill take any phone call that willo get my ideas and options on the table and force NC Soft out of the loop.
I am big time serious about doing some fast talking. Just not too fast the message gets lost

Hello and greetings, Pikabko.  Yes, many of us had tears flowing when the servers were taken offline on Nov. 30th (or Dec 1st, depending on time zone.)  Some of us still have tears over this loss.  I agree with you, it does go to show and proves what a great job Paragon Studios had done.  (I can only imagine how the development team felt upon walking into that conference room and being told they were laid off while their account privileges were revoked even as they were meeting.)  I don't believe Paragon Studios as such exists any longer; it was also "sunset" by NCSoft.  However, take comfort, Pikabko, that TonyV and a few others have means of contacting many of the development team that gave us City of Heroes.  During the Unity Rally that resulted in AP33, I was assured personally by Melissa "War Witch" Bianco (or someone convincingly posing as her) that the members of the development team were in contact with one another, and I believe still are.

That said, I do NOT have any such contact information, but am certain a number of the development team (formerly Paragon Studios) are well aware that many of their fans are here on Titan Network forums.  1. We, the fans, are trying to have City of Heroes restored.  2.  The most recent initiative towards helping a sale of the Intellectual Property (IP) and rights to City of Heroes is lead by Team Wildcard.  Please read about it here: http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/topic,6354.0.html  3.  In addition to writing letters and postcards to Disney Corporation, there are numerous Thank the Media initiatives, to thank and show support for CoH and those in the media covering our story.  4.  Other ideas for initiatives are the topics of various threads on these forums.  I would recommend taking the time to read the forums already here regarding your ideas.  We are all working on this together.  If you don't find a thread that addresses your ideas, you can easily create one to share your ideas.

I'm up at a later than customary hour, saw your post, and wanted you to have a quick reply.  I am NOT anyone official (those are Administrators; it says so in their titles.)  I am simply a fan of City of Heroes.  By the way, while I think everyone here is friendly, you may wish to modify your post so as to remove the email address unless it is an account you created just for this purpose.  I hope you are doing well.  Aloha from Minnesota.   ;D

P.S. since composing this, I see TonyV has responded to you directly.  As you can see he's a Titan Network Admin, thus he IS official and you may trust what he says.  Welcome to the City of Heroes community here on Titan Network forums.
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: Victoria Victrix on December 12, 2012, 03:11:39 AM
Touched base with Brian today.

First: DO NOT FREAK OUT.  He's got some job options on the table.

He plans to get something that will allow him to help us out, so that if our efforts bear fruit and City finds a new home, he can "get the core band back together."  He absolutely intends to do that if we can find the home.

So let's first of all breathe a sigh of relief that Brian is taken care of!  YAY!

He is also going to poke at some of his contacts in a little mouse-house to see what, if any, initial response our pitch-package had, and to see if it is climbing the ladder to someone who can do something about it, but cautions me that it is way, way to early to expect anything from ol' round-ear.

In fact, in general, we can't expect to see movement on anything until after the holidays (which pretty much confirmed my gut feeling.)

He also wants me to tell you all that the Paragon Alumni are all very appreciative and grateful to all of you, and continue to be astounded at what we are doing for them and the game.
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: kult666 on December 12, 2012, 03:39:33 AM
VV -

Has Brian tried poking NCSoft?  While he might not be able to offer the package to purchase the IP as he did when negotiations started after the announcement, does he have the contacts to find out if they are more willing now?

 Or stay in the loop/help mediate?  I think the re-open negotiations thread was meant to ask this but didnt quite hit the mark.  Just wish we had a little more insight into what NCSoft is thinking now that the game is closed.

I'll never give up... but I can't say that I don't need something to help me hold the torch high.

-Kult
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: healix on December 12, 2012, 04:05:54 AM
My arm may grow numb and cold, but I will somehow keep holding it high. My heart won't let me give up hope.
(https://i.imgur.com/qVpD9l.jpg)
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: Victoria Victrix on December 12, 2012, 04:12:16 AM
VV -

Has Brian tried poking NCSoft?  While he might not be able to offer the package to purchase the IP as he did when negotiations started after the announcement, does he have the contacts to find out if they are more willing now?

 Or stay in the loop/help mediate?  I think the re-open negotiations thread was meant to ask this but didnt quite hit the mark.  Just wish we had a little more insight into what NCSoft is thinking now that the game is closed.

I'll never give up... but I can't say that I don't need something to help me hold the torch high.

-Kult

He's staying in the loop, absolutely.  He fully intends to do whatever he can to facilitate negotiations. 

And I TOTALLY forgot this (publicly available) bomb.

NCSoft is advertising on their job openings page for a new Chief Financial Officer (CFO) at NCSoft West.

Yes, that's right.  Looks like karma is having her little say.

May this only creep upwards to Kim and Yoon.
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: healix on December 12, 2012, 04:25:48 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/dYsSN.gif)
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: ukaserex on December 13, 2012, 11:23:32 PM
NCSoft is advertising on their job openings page for a new Chief Financial Officer (CFO) at NCSoft West.

This is very interesting!

Have I mentioned my middle name is Keynes? I could possibly bankrupt them with the stroke of a pen! All I have to do now is brush up my resume (A resume is a marketing tool, right? 8)   )

Seriously, odds are there's at least one person who could get hired and be a corporate spy, no? Or, alternatively, arrange for the servers to be moved to some storage closet and start them back up, real sly like. 
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: Kistulot on December 14, 2012, 12:05:47 AM
Seriously, odds are there's at least one person who could get hired and be a corporate spy, no? Or, alternatively, arrange for the servers to be moved to some storage closet and start them back up, real sly like.

Your mission, if you choose to accept it.

Secure a position for NCSoft. Gain access to their backups of CoH data. Deliver them to Tony.



In all seriousness, this is definitely interesting news. By the new year we'll be needing another serious update, I imagine!
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: dwturducken on December 14, 2012, 12:16:07 AM
Would it be obnoxious if we all applied?
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: eabrace on December 14, 2012, 12:21:32 AM
Our finance guys at work always said I made pretty charts and I should come work for them.  And I am looking for a job right now...
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: Kistulot on December 14, 2012, 01:09:29 AM
Would it be obnoxious if we all applied?

That could be a way to get NCSoft's attention.

Overload their employment channels.
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: pikabko1 on December 14, 2012, 08:19:35 AM
11/30/2012 Thr cry out for CITY OF HEROES .its Murder USA CRYING OUT FOR JUSTICE FREEDOM while a new Super Villain that no one cannot touch. Lord Recluse him self could not stop him. There is a new Super Villain the name of this Villain is not Circle of Thorns, far more worse
then Rikti. who do you think this new super villain is? if you think Blasters had a hardest time dealing with Circle of Thorns!. Think again.
it stood up against millions of Heroes and Villains. all of them Well I should say all of us got murdered by this Super Villain.
The name you are all searching for. the name you think The Clues are in front of you! The clue is on all Ratail Boxes, dvd cases and Guild Books.
its on every printed time card. its written in the instctions, its written in the leagle blah blah blah blah blah!
its in all in our hard drive. we are all talking about it How many clues you you need from me?
on 11/30/2012 :gonk: :gonk: :gonk: :gonk: :gonk: :gonk: :gonk: :gonk: :gonk: :gonk: :gonk: :gonk: :gonk: :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
The final service crryed out demanding the head of this new super villain. its not at Atlas park, its not found on any zonehowever its on
 every part of City of Heroes City of Villains and so on The name of this new super Villain isssss...........
NC SOFT
Taek Jin Kim - Chief Executive Officer NCSOFT Corporation
Taek jin Kim    

    CEO, NCSOFT
    Chairman of the board, NCSOFT

   

    MS in Electrics, Seoul National University
    Co-developer of Arae-a Hangul
    Established HanmeSoft (Hanme Hangul, Hanmatajakyosa)
    AmiNet (first national online internet service)
    (Currently Shinbiro) head of development, Hyundai Electronics

Hee sang Lee    

    COO, NCSOFT

   

    BS in Electric Engineering, Seoul National University
    Researcher, Hancom
    Researcher, Namo Interactive

Outside Directors
Byung moo Park    

    Outside Director, NCSOFT

   

    MS in Law, Seoul National University
    CEO, Hanarotelecom, Inc.
    Managing Director, Newbridge Capital (Now TPG Asia)
    CEO, PLENUS Entertainment Inc.
    Partner, Kim & Chang Law Office

Myung Oh    

    Outside Director, NCSOFT
    Chairman, Woongjin Polysilicon
    Chairman of the board, KAIST

   

    Ph.D in Electronic Engineering, State University of New York
    Minister of Construction and Transportation
    President & Chairman of Dong-A Daily Newspaper
    President of Ajou University
    Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Science & Technology
    President of Konkuk University

Yun seok Seo    

    Outside Director, NCSOFT
    Professor of Business
    Administration, Ewha Womans
    University

   

    Ph.D in Accounting, University of Texas
    Tenured professor, University of Illinois
    Professor of Business Administration, Ajou University
    Vice President, Korean Accounting Association
    President, Korean Managerial Accounting Association
these are the new villains that murdered COH
NC SOFT IS NO LONGER A AMERICAN COMPNAY ITS A SOUTH KOREA BLACK MARKET
What ever you got to do so save CITY OF HEROES FREEDOM. This information is hear for you to study
happy Hunting and take out NC SOFT. NC SOFT YOUR GOING DOWN!
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: pikabko1 on December 14, 2012, 08:32:42 AM
its now time to take on the greatest Super Villain group of all time! its time to pick out self up! The mighty Lord Reculse did not have a chance against this Super Villian Group The name of this Villian Super Group is NC SOFT! Is now taken over by NC SOFT WEST The South Korea black market exchange. its now time to stand up get out super heroes and super villains rise from there grave! The return of Statsman Joins forces with Lord Recluse to fight one foe that is far more deadly the the Rikti. after all the villains my Heroes had to take on so far NC SOFT had been the worst.
there is no Hospital Visit. No Final Services only  :gonk: :gonk: :gonk: :gonk: :gonk: :gonk: :gonk: :gonk: :gonk:
 :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :gonk: :gonk: :gonk: :gonk: :gonk: :gonk: :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
its time to do something about this. its now time to fight back! its time to stand up take on NC SOFT. Get to your atterneys fight back!
RIGHT FOR OUR FREEDOM OF RIGHTS TO GO ON CITY OF HEROES FREEDOM!
GET NEW OWNER! TURN ON THE SERVER! BRING ON CITY OF HEREOS 2!!!!Combine the two!
I cannot allow this murder to go away silent!. This is murder the death of City of Heroes Freedom must be put on trail
ARE YOU WITH NC SOFT OR ARE YOU WITH CITY OF HEROES????? YOU CHOOSE
You know who I stand for
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: johnrobey on December 14, 2012, 01:10:55 PM
I think the Chief Financial Officer (CFO) has responsibility and oversight only for the numerous areas requiring accounting and bookkeeping such as Payroll, Accounts Payable and Receivable, etc.  Sometimes this person has input into larger business decisions such as Marketing and Sales, but often not.  In my experience, CFO's either retire due to age, or else leave to accept similar positions offering better pay.
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: Axonius on December 15, 2012, 02:34:58 PM
Was someone let go, or being replaced? Or is this an all new NCSoft West CFO position?

A CFO would definitely have input into any global decisions that would impact revenue.


Regardless, the posting of a CFO position implies some sort of discontent with a strategy.
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: ukaserex on December 15, 2012, 04:49:53 PM
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: Triplash on December 15, 2012, 06:33:04 PM
*Won $1000's in real life currency by playing and coaching chess.

*spock eyebrow* ???

Not bad, not bad at all :)
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: Tanglefoe on December 15, 2012, 11:41:59 PM
Please tell me you applied for the position and sent that in  :D

That is genius!
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: Victoria Victrix on December 17, 2012, 01:39:08 AM
Got another "NCSoft 'boo-ed' in movie theater" for you all.

Quote
From Wolf:
It was hilarious hearing a bunch of 'Boo!s' at a theatre when an add for GW2 came on though when the NCSoft logo came up. Nothing as great as that one quote that bubbled up on CoHTitan, but NCSoft has definately turned into the "Exxon" of game companies. =O.o=
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: ukaserex on December 18, 2012, 11:03:12 PM
Please tell me you applied for the position and sent that in  :D

That is genius!

Heh, no. NCSoft isn't worth the stamp.
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: NoName on December 18, 2012, 11:55:00 PM
Got another "NCSoft 'boo-ed' in movie theater" for you all.

Any confirmation that they were not saying Boo-urns?
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: sorinkon on December 27, 2012, 07:06:58 PM
hello all...... i was just curious if anyone ever thought of asking blizzard if they would be interested in getting the city of heroes ip..... i mean i just thought of it because ncsoft isnt nearly as stable or has as much money as blizzard plus all ncsoft wants is the money....... city of heroes made millions so i am sure that blizzard would be interested in getting the COH ip from NCsoft.... just a suggestion tho
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: Perfidus on December 28, 2012, 05:18:15 AM
I wouldn't doubt if it's a part of Hail Mary, but.. honestly Blizzard probably wouldn't want us. They're all about their own homegrown IP.
Title: Re: Status Update (November 13)
Post by: DarkCurrent on December 28, 2012, 06:00:50 AM
I can't see NCSoft selling to their major competitor unless Blizzard's check looked something like:

$1________________________________________.00