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Graveyard => Save Paragon Retirees => Save Paragon City! => Topic started by: Victoria Victrix on December 15, 2012, 10:04:07 PM

Title: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Victoria Victrix on December 15, 2012, 10:04:07 PM
I know that most of the time we are all sensible, cautious people.

I also know that we've been without something that was, if not the center of our lives, social and otherwise, one of the Top Picks, for two weeks now.  It's really easy to start grasping at any hope offered.

One of those is "My millionaire friend" aka, a variation on the classic "pigeon drop" con.

We've HAD that turn up in the form of an acquaintance of mine in real life, who claimed to have a "millionaire friend" who was going to buy the IP back in September.  Said "millionaire friend" did indeed contact me; he was functionally illiterate, he claimed I couldn't call him "because his cell phone was always tied up" (he's a millionaire, but he can't afford a secretary or a second cell phone for personal calls?) and wanted me to vouch for him to Brian.  I did give him Brian's email address, I told him Brian's conditions for contact and involvement in Paragon's attempt to buy back, and that I did not want to be involved because that was too many people in the chain.  I also wrote to Brian, told him about this, and added that I thought this guy was a con man, so Brian should probably check him out very thoroughly.

Guess what.  Brian never heard from him. 

So here is how the variation on the "pigeon drop" will go.  Someone posting here will have a "millionaire friend."  This someone will either be a dupe (like my acquaintance was) or will be the con man himself.  In the first case, the "millionaire friend" will be the con man, in the second, the "millionaire friend" doesn't actually exist.

The poster will drop hints about the "millionaire friend" until that persona is established in the memory of the forum members.  Then the poster will announce, either publicly, or more insidiously, privately, in PMs, that his "millionaire friend" is interested in, or going to, buy CoH.

Several posts will be made, increasing excitement, before the "pigeon drop" falls.  At this point, the poster will try and get your money.  He might suggest Titans also invest ("just small amounts, like a Kickstarter").  He might suggest that "if you all do a year subscription up front, he can show his advisers that it's going to make money."  I am sure there are other things he might say or suggest, but all of them will involve you contributing some amount of money.  He MIGHT even select one trusted Titan first, persuade him or her to "invest" or "subscribe", and let the first "pigeon" do the persuading.

The main goal here is to get your money.  When the con man gets hints that someone is on to him, or he has gotten everything he thinks he can from the forumites, he will vanish.  With your money, at best, with your credit card or debit card information, at worst.

I have experience with this.  I've had people try pigeon drops on me numerous times (including the classic "I just found this huge bundle of money!  Look!  Tell you what, go take $1000 out of your bank account and give it to me as a good faith gesture and hold this big bundle of money while I check with the police to find out if it's stolen!").  Some were just as I have described above.   No, I didn't fall for any of them.  But friends did.

Friends don't let friends fall for con men.
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: corvus1970 on December 15, 2012, 10:05:10 PM
Superb advice  8)
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: mikoroshi on December 15, 2012, 10:13:35 PM
I like when people string the 419 scammers along and make them do embarrassing or fiscally irresponsible things because they had made them believe their marks are so good they'll definitely get the money if the instructions are followed out.

Won't link to the site I read because it's got some definitely NSFW content.
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Victoria Victrix on December 15, 2012, 10:16:27 PM
I like when people string the 419 scammers along and make them do embarrassing or fiscally irresponsible things because they had made them believe their marks are so good they'll definitely get the money if the instructions are followed out.

Won't link to the site I read because it's got some definitely NSFW content.

I know that site.  In fact, I have it bookmarked.

Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: corvus1970 on December 15, 2012, 10:18:36 PM
Somebody please PM me with the link!
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: JaguarX on December 15, 2012, 10:25:50 PM
good stuff
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: johnrobey on December 15, 2012, 11:16:09 PM
Hi, I have a possibly hare-brained suggestion to add to options under consideration.   While many of the development team have secured new employment (congrats to them), I believe Ms. Bianco hasn't.  In the event that NCSoft refuses to sell the IP to City of Heroes what I'd next like to see is Ms. Bianco and as many of the development team as possible roll out a new MMORPG that is a "spiritual successor" to CoH, perhaps even optimally working with one or both of the Plan Z projects.

What if, say, 100 of the 165 registered here: http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/topic,7150.0.html were to kick in $15-$20 per month as a subscription to what I'm going to call Bianco Enterprises (though I think she'd think of a cooler name) to bankroll their developing this?  We'd be subscribing for several months with nothing to show for it initially.

Perhaps this has already been considered.  What do you guys think?
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Victoria Victrix on December 15, 2012, 11:29:29 PM
Hi, I have a possibly hare-brained suggestion to add to options under consideration.   While many of the development team have secured new employment (congrats to them), I believe Ms. Bianco hasn't.  In the event that NCSoft refuses to sell the IP to City of Heroes what I'd next like to see is Ms. Bianco and as many of the development team as possible roll out a new MMORPG that is a "spiritual successor" to CoH, perhaps even optimally working with one or both of the Plan Z projects.

What if, say, 100 of the 165 registered here: http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/topic,7150.0.html were to kick in $15-$20 per month as a subscription to what I'm going to call Bianco Enterprises (though I think she'd think of a cooler name) to bankroll their developing this?  We'd be subscribing for several months with nothing to show for it initially.

Perhaps this has already been considered.  What do you guys think?

I think it is a very, very bad idea.

You haven't consulted with Melissa.  You haven't asked her if she is willing to lend her name to it.  You haven't even ascertained if this is something she would be interested.

If I were Melissa and found out you had floated this idea, I would consider suing you.
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: JaguarX on December 15, 2012, 11:37:25 PM
Hi, I have a possibly hare-brained suggestion to add to options under consideration.   While many of the development team have secured new employment (congrats to them), I believe Ms. Bianco hasn't.  In the event that NCSoft refuses to sell the IP to City of Heroes what I'd next like to see is Ms. Bianco and as many of the development team as possible roll out a new MMORPG that is a "spiritual successor" to CoH, perhaps even optimally working with one or both of the Plan Z projects.

What if, say, 100 of the 165 registered here: http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/topic,7150.0.html were to kick in $15-$20 per month as a subscription to what I'm going to call Bianco Enterprises (though I think she'd think of a cooler name) to bankroll their developing this?  We'd be subscribing for several months with nothing to show for it initially.

Perhaps this has already been considered.  What do you guys think?

yeah better ask her first.
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: johnrobey on December 15, 2012, 11:38:13 PM
I think it is a very, very bad idea.

You haven't consulted with Melissa.  You haven't asked her if she is willing to lend her name to it.  You haven't even ascertained if this is something she would be interested.

If I were Melissa and found out you had floated this idea, I would consider suing you.

You're right, I have no idea whether Ms. Bianco would find this idea of interest.  I'm sorry it's a bad idea, sufficiently bad to consider suing me for even floating it.
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Osborn on December 15, 2012, 11:43:21 PM
I know that most of the time we are all sensible, cautious people.

I also know that we've been without something that was, if not the center of our lives, social and otherwise, but was one of the Top Picks, for two weeks now.  It's really easy to start grasping at any hope offered.

One of those is "My millionaire friend" aka, a variation on the classic "pigeon drop" con.

We've HAD that turn up in the form of an acquaintance of mine in real life, who claimed to have a "millionaire friend" who was going to buy the IP back in September.  Said "millionaire friend" did indeed contact me; he was functionally illiterate, he claimed I couldn't call him "because his cell phone was always tied up" (he's a millionaire, but he can't afford a secretary or a second cell phone for personal calls?) and wanted me to vouch for him to Brian.  I did give him Brian's email address, I told him Brian's conditions for contact and involvement in Paragon's attempt to buy back, and that I did not want to be involved because that was too many people in the chain.  I also wrote to Brian, told him about this, and added that I thought this guy was a con man, so Brian should probably check him out very thoroughly.

Guess what.  Brian never heard from him. 

So here is how the variation on the "pigeon drop" will go.  Someone posting here will have a "millionaire friend."  This someone will either be a dupe (like my acquaintance was) or will be the con man himself.  In the first case, the "millionaire friend" will be the con man, in the second, the "millionaire friend" doesn't actually exist.

The poster will drop hints about the "millionaire friend" until that persona is established in the memory of the forum members.  Then the poster will announce, either publicly, or more insidiously, privately, in PMs, that his "millionaire friend" is interested in, or going to, buy CoH.

Several posts will be made, increasing excitement, before the "pigeon drop" falls.  At this point, the poster will try and get your money.  He might suggest Titans also invest ("just small amounts, like a Kickstarter").  He might suggest that "if you all do a year subscription up front, he can show his advisers that it's going to make money."  I am sure there are other things he might say or suggest, but all of them will involve you contributing some amount of money.  He MIGHT even select one trusted Titan first, persuade him or her to "invest" or "subscribe", and let the first "pigeon" do the persuading.

The main goal here is to get your money.  When the con man gets hints that someone is on to him, or he has gotten everything he thinks he can from the forumites, he will vanish.  With your money, at best, with your credit card or debit card information, at worst.

I have experience with this.  I've had people try pigeon drops on me numerous times (including the classic "I just found this huge bundle of money!  Look!  Tell you what, go take $1000 out of your bank account and give it to me as a good faith gesture and hold this big bundle of money while I check with the police to find out if it's stolen!").  Some were just as I have described above.   No, I didn't fall for any of them.  But friends did.

Friends don't let friends fall for con men.

I guess that's one benefit of being dirt poor is that nobody that I know and nobody that they know and nobody that THEY know is a millionaire.

So if anybody springs up like "Lol, if you give me 15 dollars and I'll give you a million dollars" I know it's automatically BS.

You're right, I have no idea whether Ms. Bianco would find this idea of interest.  I'm sorry it's a bad idea, sufficiently bad to consider suing me for even floating it.

Well, she'd be unlikely to sue you for suggesting it as an online post (though it might make her mad, I don't know), but if you were to start to collect money in her name while suggesting she was going to start up a company with the money you've collected she'd have no choice but to sue you or end up liable for a lot of fraud settlements.
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Tahquitz on December 16, 2012, 12:20:37 AM
Deleted.
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Osborn on December 16, 2012, 12:27:27 AM
OK, I think he's got the message, we should probably stop reiterating it.
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: ukaserex on December 16, 2012, 12:29:06 AM
Bianco is/was War Witch, correct? Christmas is coming. I know I'd donate 10 bucks to help her(and the other Paragon Studio folks that haven't found a job yet)  have a better Christmas - but wouldn't have a clue how to get it to her.
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Tahquitz on December 16, 2012, 12:29:18 AM
No problem.
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Perfidus on December 16, 2012, 12:42:28 AM
Still, the crux of johnrobey's comment is true though. So far as I know, neither Positron or War Witch are working again. This gives me hope that if the game is saved, both could be rehired to lead and rebuild Paragon Studios, or another studio built in the same vein and vision as Paragon.
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Zolgar on December 16, 2012, 06:10:53 AM
So hey..
I have this millionaire friend, she wants to buy City of Heroes, but first she needs to see sufficiently that it would be a viable investment for her, so she's asking for those who are interested to pay up front for a 6 month subscription (Only $80, that $10 off the monthly rate!), or if you pay upfront for a year (at $150) you'll get a lifetime sub when it goes live!
You can send the money to her paypal: ImaScammer@Scamfest.net

>.>
<.<

Whaaaat?
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: mikoroshi on December 16, 2012, 06:17:35 AM
I just have to point this out:
good stuff

Sure is.  Considering...
Speaking of which, I need to go ahead and work on my letter to Disney and other entities. I'm coming up with a list of people to contact in case the Plan Zs  is the option that will continue on, and see if they interested in throwing their weight behind the projects and or when it's time, some marketing, thorugh radios, commericials in Atlanta on the radio and other stuff to get the name and product out. Hell, I'll go as far as paying for a few commericals myself if I have to when the time comes and or convince my friend E. who played COX for years and who make my account look like  sofa change to get behind the project and help out even if it's just for the game, but that task is about as daunting as convincing NCSoft to let go of it IP but I can walk away saying I tried them. If anyone have any tips to help me out with convincing E. to let go of some cash to support the project, way more than I can let go (if she wanted to and can convince her husband probably could buy a good portion of the IP today themselves if they chose to and NCSoft was willing to let go (going by a buy price of 15-30 million dollars.), I'm all ears. Of course this will be all moot if another company picks up the IP but just in case, help me help out in anyways I can on the fincancial standpoint when the time comes for that.
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: dwturducken on December 16, 2012, 06:47:02 AM
Someone, somewhere on this forum, said they'd heard that Posi was working at the Aion studio. I believe the recent interview with Posi and WW debunked this, but he did say he had "irons in the fire" (my quote, distilling his longer statement). I'm not saying that they are fine, but I don't think either of them are applying for Toys for Tots to make sure something is under the tree. I'm on board, IF we get a sign off from Tony or VV or someone with an actual line of contact with them.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to take a call from a business associate who needs my help opening a club in Cuba. He's putting in the sweat equity, you see. :)
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Victoria Victrix on December 16, 2012, 12:45:26 PM
Well I know what would make Melissa's day.

If you guys have her twitter handle, since she is a good, kind and sincere Christian (and one of the sort that is a GOOD example of a Christian) if you could tweet her telling her you are all praying for her (or whatever variant on that you want) I know she would like it.   And she's the sort that would chuckle at "hoping for a statistically anomalous favorable outcome on your situation" as well.

Having it come on a Sunday would be even better.

If there is anything else I can come up with (and I intend to ask Brian) I will let you know.
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: corvus1970 on December 16, 2012, 05:03:30 PM
And she's the sort that would chuckle at "hoping for a statistically anomalous favorable outcome on your situation" as well.

I'd say something along those lines, heh.

I don't have a twitter account myself, but this whole CoX situation has me pondering signing up.
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Vasarto on December 16, 2012, 06:16:00 PM
there are people out there taking advantage of fellow fighters trying to get their game back?


Where are they so I can go kick their ass up one side of the street and back down the other?
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Menrva Channel on December 16, 2012, 08:54:46 PM
Well I know what would make Melissa's day.

If you guys have her twitter handle, since she is a good, kind and sincere Christian (and one of the sort that is a GOOD example of a Christian) if you could tweet her telling her you are all praying for her (or whatever variant on that you want) I know she would like it.   And she's the sort that would chuckle at "hoping for a statistically anomalous favorable outcome on your situation" as well.

Having it come on a Sunday would be even better.

If there is anything else I can come up with (and I intend to ask Brian) I will let you know.

Anyone have the Twitter handles for Posi and WW?  I am very new to the Twitter sphere but I'd love to drop a word of encouragement for them.
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Omega Mark V on December 16, 2012, 09:06:13 PM
If you guys have her twitter handle, since she is a good, kind and sincere Christian (and one of the sort that is a GOOD example of a Christian) if you could tweet her telling her you are all praying for her (or whatever variant on that you want) I know she would like it.

O.o

I had no idea. That's awesome! I love to see fellow Christians be able to play and do things that others deem "bad." Such as playing games.

I hope as a minister I can help gamers understand that being a Christian is possible, and let 'Christians' and Christians know it's just fine to be one. Bianco is a great example, and role model. Thanks for sharing that, VV. That made my day. :)

(Wish I had/would do twitter to thank/pray for her. :/)
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: AlienOne on December 16, 2012, 09:31:44 PM
O.o

I had no idea. That's awesome! I love to see fellow Christians be able to play and do things that others deem "bad." Such as playing games.

I hope as a minister I can help gamers understand that being a Christian is possible, and let 'Christians' and Christians know it's just fine to be one. Bianco is a great example, and role model. Thanks for sharing that, VV. That made my day. :)

(Wish I had/would do twitter to thank/pray for her. :/)

I love to hear stuff like this as well. Most people who assume that all stereotypes "must be true" don't realize there are plenty of people out there who don't perpetuate them.
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Perfidus on December 16, 2012, 09:51:50 PM
Anyone have the Twitter handles for Posi and WW?  I am very new to the Twitter sphere but I'd love to drop a word of encouragement for them.

@MMODesigner is Posi.
@MelissaBianco is... well, take a guess. :P
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Minotaur on December 16, 2012, 10:42:02 PM
O.o

I had no idea. That's awesome! I love to see fellow Christians be able to play and do things that others deem "bad." Such as playing games.

I hope as a minister I can help gamers understand that being a Christian is possible, and let 'Christians' and Christians know it's just fine to be one. Bianco is a great example, and role model. Thanks for sharing that, VV. That made my day. :)

(Wish I had/would do twitter to thank/pray for her. :/)
Yup, MB is a role model.

The character in Atlas Park called something like "Son of God" spouting extreme fundamentalist Christian views I could do without.
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Lily Barclay on December 17, 2012, 01:44:26 AM
I'd say something along those lines, heh.

I don't have a twitter account myself, but this whole CoX situation has me pondering signing up.

It's why I got one.
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: corvus1970 on December 17, 2012, 02:08:48 AM
Alright, peer pressure got to me. I'm on Twitter, and I'm following saveCOH, as well as Posi and WW: @Corvus1970
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Blitzwing on December 17, 2012, 02:59:16 AM
there are people out there taking advantage of fellow fighters trying to get their game back?


Where are they so I can go kick their ass up one side of the street and back down the other?

You're too late...I already Trip Mined them...BUT, if you must know, they're over there....and over there...and waaaaaaay back there....  ;)
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Perfidus on December 17, 2012, 03:11:05 AM
It's why I got one.

Same here.

@RaineHeartfall is mine. I named my twitter account after my main.
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: johnrobey on December 19, 2012, 02:11:01 PM
Well, she'd be unlikely to sue you for suggesting it as an online post (though it might make her mad, I don't know), but if you were to start to collect money in her name while suggesting she was going to start up a company with the money you've collected she'd have no choice but to sue you or end up liable for a lot of fraud settlements.

I agree with you.  I've not set up an account to take money nor would I.  My idea was simply to ask whether the fans here thought there would be interest in investing in new development at the monthly subscription rate.  I expected arguments against it would include but not be limited to: there's not enough player interest in this; the devs wouldn't be interested; other problems related to monthly investment with nothing/little to show.  I never imagined lawsuits as a consequence of suggesting the idea.  I'm clueless as to what the basis for such an action would be.  That said, I withdraw the suggestion.  Besides my meager disability pension and few assets would make the legal costs of suing unlikely to be cost-effective.
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Starsman on December 19, 2012, 02:51:08 PM
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Segev on December 19, 2012, 03:10:03 PM
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Ironwolf on December 19, 2012, 03:25:16 PM
I am a native American and follow my tribes beliefs. However any religion that espouses love, honor, duty and defense of home and family has my full support.

I see a world based on a Judeo-Christian ethic as overall very positive. Having studied comparative religions, I can say I personally enjoy the Zen mindset and use that to balance my overly aggressive nature. Having taken the Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory (MMPI-2) test for my daughter when she was getting her masters in Psycology - it was found I am basically the flatline standard for sanity (scares me to think it) however my aggression level is off the charts. I have studied martial arts for over 37 years and so have found the Zen teachings to be very much a balancing factor for me.

Since studying many of the principles put forth in the Book of Five Rings by Miyamoto Musashi http://www.bookoffiverings.com/ - I have found peace and and tranquility. Life and death walk hand in hand and for every tool there is a use. I have come to understand I am a man of violence and understand well its application to the human condition. This doesn't mean I can't love children, pets and my family. It just means I am singularly qualified to understand threats of violence to people and how to respond to prevent, stop or react to such actions by others.

In my family and circle of friends I am the go to guy to resolve such issues. I often hear - how is it you talk to these people and they just stop? I speak the language they understand. Threats are just that and often just fan the flames, a very simple and quiet statement - if you continue in this manner I will personally make sure you answer for it, has always worked for me. 
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: dwturducken on December 19, 2012, 03:29:25 PM
Generally, like anything else, the reality is very different from the stereotype, which is usually encouraged with the excuse that it's "better TV." My observations show it really being mostly American Christians who tend toward this steroetype, and my Facebook wall is full of it in recent days.
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: JaguarX on December 19, 2012, 03:31:01 PM
Generally, like anything else, the reality is very different from the stereotype, which is usually encouraged with the excuse that it's "better TV."

yeah.
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Segev on December 19, 2012, 03:33:11 PM
All I can say is, speaking as an American Christian who hangs out with a fair number of the same, the typical American Christian has a lot more in common with Miss Bianco than with the stereotype.
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Starsman on December 19, 2012, 03:37:40 PM
There is a misperception of Christianity in the more agnostic and atheistic sectors of our society that assumes the religion is restrictive to the point of self-righteous anal-retentiveness. While there are examples of such people proclaiming the christian faith, they are not nearly as pervasive as those outside it tend to believe. I'm not sure why there is this desire to assume Christianity is a hateful, narrow-minded faith that denies one any ability to have fun or participate in the real world without looking like you're squelching through the most disgusting mire you can imagine, but there is, and it pervades popular culture.

This is the big can of worms I did not want to open, because for one: Omega Mark V, who I replied to and was the one to be pleasantly surprised about another Christian gamer, IS a Christian AND a minister. So bringing agnostic and atheistic discussions is already bringing in a topic that had nothing to do with the conversation.

I know where you are coming from (and have my share to say in that topic,) but this here is about Christians perceptions of games, as observed by other Christians or people that were raised as Christians. Let's not go into the other groups here. :)
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Segev on December 19, 2012, 03:41:48 PM
In that case, it's pretty straight-forward: Probably most American gamers are Christians. Maybe only sunday-christmas-easter types, but still. I don't think there's this broad-based Christian animosity towards games and gamers. It's an illusion.
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Starsman on December 19, 2012, 03:45:50 PM
In that case, it's pretty straight-forward: Probably most American gamers are Christians. Maybe only sunday-christmas-easter types, but still. I don't think there's this broad-based Christian animosity towards games and gamers. It's an illusion.

Has to be more than an illusion if a minister is shocked over it. But, as I ask: may be a regional thing. Also: may be a specific denomination.

Regional culture can actually influence national stereotypes in the eyes of the people in that region.
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Starsman on December 19, 2012, 03:47:55 PM
Anyway, bringing this thread back on track:

I won this Noriegan lottery ticket for a trillion dollar inheritance from a prince... all I need is the help of some candid investors to pay for the paperwork so I can claim my trillion... I will share the money 50/50!

Any takers?  8)
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Ceremonius on December 19, 2012, 03:48:49 PM
In that case, it's pretty straight-forward: Probably most American gamers are Christians. Maybe only sunday-christmas-easter types, but still. I don't think there's this broad-based Christian animosity towards games and gamers. It's an illusion.

I can sign this as a man who played and worked with people all over the world. Most of them are christian because they were raised that way.
I for myself only believe in my wife and me, but I don't bother when someone believes in some sort of a higher entity.

The whole stuff has nothing to do with beeing a good christian or not.
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: corvus1970 on December 19, 2012, 04:16:28 PM
In that case, it's pretty straight-forward: Probably most American gamers are Christians. Maybe only sunday-christmas-easter types, but still. I don't think there's this broad-based Christian animosity towards games and gamers. It's an illusion.

As a former Pentecostal Christian who is a much-happier Agnostic, I can safely say that the ones who stand up and decry games, music, books, etc, etc tend to be a loud-mouthed, irritating minority. I think the fact that the majority of Christians don't usually tell the self-righteous zealots to sit down and shut up feeds the perception that the vocal minority is representative of the majority.
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Segev on December 19, 2012, 04:21:18 PM
Oh, we do. The problem is, when we do, we are treated as if we're the minority by the pop culture reaction, and get a "you're a credit to your religion" sort of treatment rather than a "oh, okay, so your religion doesn't stand for that." So the illusion is propagated by at least SOME desire for it to be true on the part of those who hold it. It doesn't help that it's a lot easier to get camera time if you're going to bellow fire and brimstone insanity than if you're going to speak calm and simple brotherly love.
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Arctic Force. on December 19, 2012, 04:53:34 PM
I have a millionaire friend that just sold me a nice bridge in Arizona.   :P
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Minotaur on December 19, 2012, 04:53:59 PM
As a former Pentecostal Christian who is a much-happier Agnostic, I can safely say that the ones who stand up and decry games, music, books, etc, etc tend to be a loud-mouthed, irritating minority. I think the fact that the majority of Christians don't usually tell the self-righteous zealots to sit down and shut up feeds the perception that the vocal minority is representative of the majority.

This is about right. I appeared on a local TV chat show (as an audience member, I might have been called upon to talk but wasn't) in about 1988 on the subject of roleplaying. We had a whole cross section in the audience from re-enacters, the local C&W society, the university games club, a Marilyn Monroe impersonator and a woman who ran weekends where stressed executives would dress up in nappies and be treated as babies.

The only scary person there was the fundamentalist Christian who basically went off on one (well several actually) about how D&D involved a chaotic evil which would take people over and make you murder your parents (slight exaggeration, but only slight). It had clear associations with Satanism (which amused several of us as we knew a couple of the Viking re-enacters were card carrying Satanists) and ...

He refused all invitations to actually sit in on a D&D session and see what it really involved.
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: srmalloy on December 19, 2012, 05:05:31 PM
There is a misperception of Christianity in the more agnostic and atheistic sectors of our society that assumes the religion is restrictive to the point of self-righteous anal-retentiveness. While there are examples of such people proclaiming the christian faith, they are not nearly as pervasive as those outside it tend to believe. I'm not sure why there is this desire to assume Christianity is a hateful, narrow-minded faith that denies one any ability to have fun or participate in the real world without looking like you're squelching through the most disgusting mire you can imagine, but there is, and it pervades popular culture.

When you're eating at a restaurant, which do you notice? The small children who are quiet and well-behaved, or the ones who are crying loudly, screaming, and running around underfoot?

The problem is that it's not the people who try to live by the ideals of Christianity that everyone else notices, it's the people who try to make everyone else live by what they believe are the ideals of Christianity. It's the same with any group -- it's the nutcases and extremists who are constantly in people's faces that get taken as exemplar of the group as a whole.
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Segev on December 19, 2012, 05:10:22 PM
When you're eating at a restaurant, which do you notice? The small children who are quiet and well-behaved, or the ones who are crying loudly, screaming, and running around underfoot?

The problem is that it's not the people who try to live by the ideals of Christianity that everyone else notices, it's the people who try to make everyone else live by what they believe are the ideals of Christianity. It's the same with any group -- it's the nutcases and extremists who are constantly in people's faces that get taken as exemplar of the group as a whole.
Pretty much. I only get annoyed by the stereotype because it's used to make Christianity "socially unacceptable" while other, more politically correct causes wanting to impose their will through legislation *cough*contraceptionmandate*cough* are lauded as caring for others.

But this wavers way too far into politics, now, for which I apologize.

The only scary person there was the fundamentalist Christian who basically went off on one (well several actually) about how D&D involved a chaotic evil which would take people over and make you murder your parents (slight exaggeration, but only slight). It had clear associations with Satanism (which amused several of us as we knew a couple of the Viking re-enacters were card carrying Satanists) and ...

He refused all invitations to actually sit in on a D&D session and see what it really involved.
This is not a direct response to your post, Minotaur, but your post reminded me of it: If anybody ever wants a laugh riot over a real out-there (and by no means mainstream, but probably trying to cash in on the stereotype) "christian" view of D&D, look up the Chick Tract "Dark Dungeons."

(Chick Tracts are so-bad-they're-hillarious comic strips by one Jack Chick that supposedly reveal how evil everything that is not his very narrow, extremely stereotyped brand of christianity is.)
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Arctic Force. on December 19, 2012, 05:11:35 PM
Hey people could you please take the religious converstation to pm's
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: dwturducken on December 19, 2012, 05:20:12 PM
All I can say is, speaking as an American Christian who hangs out with a fair number of the same, the typical American Christian has a lot more in common with Miss Bianco than with the stereotype.

This is actually a better description of my circle of friends and acquaintances. Aside from one guy who won't speak to me anymore (he makes Sarah Palin look like a New Dealer), they cover a pretty broad variety of outlooks and beliefs. We have some heated discussions, but no one ever takes it personally.

Except when I accidentally used the word "Paki" in front of the father of an Indian friend. He didn't hear the context, so he didn't realize I was quoting someone, but he got pretty pissed.
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Segev on December 19, 2012, 05:26:54 PM
I'm not sure it's possible to make Sarah Palin look like a New Dealer, but I get your point. (There IS a far extreme on the small-government side of things beyond which it is literally impossible to go; it's called "anarchy.")
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: dwturducken on December 19, 2012, 07:05:26 PM
Given how well ideological discussions end up going, I'm not really comfortable elaborating beyond saying that the Army and the local police department wouldn't take him. My friends who went to high school with him honestly wonder when we'll turn on the news to see that, not only has he set up a "compound," but the FBI and National Guard have it surrounded.
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: corvus1970 on December 19, 2012, 07:09:43 PM
"We know you've taken the CoH IP hostage! Surrender the IP and come out with your hands up!"
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: dwturducken on December 19, 2012, 07:14:24 PM
New meme? ;)
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: corvus1970 on December 19, 2012, 07:30:49 PM
Shows promise, doesn't it? :D
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: JaguarX on December 19, 2012, 07:33:28 PM
I like it.

I can draw or create a worth a used piece of toilet paper, but any ideas floating around to put a picture with that quote.
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: dwturducken on December 19, 2012, 08:22:30 PM
Everything I'm coming up with actually looks crass, even in my head, after Friday. They haven't even had all the funerals, yet.
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: corvus1970 on December 19, 2012, 08:37:54 PM
Hrm, good point. Let's hold off on that one, shall we?
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Terwyn on December 19, 2012, 09:17:58 PM
All I can say is, speaking as an American Christian who hangs out with a fair number of the same, the typical American Christian has a lot more in common with Miss Bianco than with the stereotype.

Except being American. ;)
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Segev on December 19, 2012, 09:19:51 PM
Except being American. ;)
Still has a lot more in common with her than with the stereotype. :P
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Terwyn on December 19, 2012, 09:22:01 PM
Still has a lot more in common with her than with the stereotype. :P

Different countries likely have different views on the stereotype in question, but yes.
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Kadrok on December 19, 2012, 09:44:03 PM
"Gentlemen. Your conversation makes interesting listening."
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Optimus Dex on December 19, 2012, 10:04:34 PM
There is a misperception of Christianity in the more agnostic and atheistic sectors of our society that assumes the religion is restrictive to the point of self-righteous anal-retentiveness. While there are examples of such people proclaiming the christian faith, they are not nearly as pervasive as those outside it tend to believe. I'm not sure why there is this desire to assume Christianity is a hateful, narrow-minded faith that denies one any ability to have fun or participate in the real world without looking like you're squelching through the most disgusting mire you can imagine, but there is, and it pervades popular culture.

Thus, people react with shock and amazement if a Christian illustrates "open-mindedness" to the point that they can do things that "normal" people do.

Usually, no harm nor offense is meant. It's just how their expectations diverge from reality. Add in that many Christians don't bother to profess their faith unless it comes up in an important way, because to them it's as normal as having a job, and people just don't realize that the normal dude they've been hanging out with is a Christian. After all, he's not trying to burn witches or scourge homosexuals through the streets or talking about how pop music is Satan's work, and that's the unfortunate and unfair stereotype (that even most people who knee-jerk to picturing it will generally agree is unfair when they stop to think about it).
 

What I always find funny about the perception of Christians and gaming- my Pastor has played in several D and D campaigns, though he favors my Champions pnp game. And I am a Baptist.
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: JaguarX on December 19, 2012, 10:45:28 PM
There is a misperception of Christianity in the more agnostic and atheistic sectors of our society that assumes the religion is restrictive to the point of self-righteous anal-retentiveness. While there are examples of such people proclaiming the christian faith, they are not nearly as pervasive as those outside it tend to believe. I'm not sure why there is this desire to assume Christianity is a hateful, narrow-minded faith that denies one any ability to have fun or participate in the real world without looking like you're squelching through the most disgusting mire you can imagine, but there is, and it pervades popular culture.

Thus, people react with shock and amazement if a Christian illustrates "open-mindedness" to the point that they can do things that "normal" people do.

Usually, no harm nor offense is meant. It's just how their expectations diverge from reality. Add in that many Christians don't bother to profess their faith unless it comes up in an important way, because to them it's as normal as having a job, and people just don't realize that the normal dude they've been hanging out with is a Christian. After all, he's not trying to burn witches or scourge homosexuals through the streets or talking about how pop music is Satan's work, and that's the unfortunate and unfair stereotype (that even most people who knee-jerk to picturing it will generally agree is unfair when they stop to think about it).


Yeah, it's sad but true- Metallica


On average when you walk by a person and say hey, or converate with them, usually a person's faith dont come up and thus they are not pegged asa Christian and thus people dont think about them i nthe Christian category. Then you have some that beloow hell fire brimstone and "REPENT!!! Or burn in the eternal flames of hell for all eternity!" types (and met quite a few of those) that usually are quick to say they are Christian right off the bat and thus that is how some people paint the entire group even though those people probably dont represent 0.01% of the Christian population. No, I'm not Christian. I'm non-religious. anot atheistm not satanist, not buddist, non-religious. But that is how it works for just about any religion, or group for that matter. Some people think all Republicans are old religious rich guys that only care about money when 99.99% of the time that dont fit the bill. Or some people think all satanists are possessed, eyes rolled in the back of their head black wearing dead language chanting supportors of anarchy. People in general seems to be quick to label a group without ap roper sample and slow to ask questions to get the facts. They just assume.

The other day I was in the store and this old lady came in holding a bible. The person near me said to the person they were with, "Lets go down the next isle. I dont want to deal with a bible thumper today." I didnt think much of it, maybe this lady may have had run in with these people before. But after striking up a convo in line with here come to find out, she found the bible on the ground that had someone name on it in the parking lot and was trying to return it in to the store hoping the owner might still be there. She was an athiest.  Assumptions. The people assumed she was a bible thumper just because she was carrying a bible, one that wasnt even hers and a religion she did not even practice. Just someone doing the kind thing and trying to return someone's property.


Having too ben around the world, I came across a wide range of people and all religion and overall most act like normal humans. Some get wasted, some dont, some go the clubs, some play games, some do neither, some havent read the bible in years, some read it everyday with a glass of good scotch, some are hell fire and brimstone, some will curse you out in a heartbeat, some will steal, some will not, some only hang out with other devouts, other hang out with a group of pagans, some dont care what you believe in, some it's important, some have family, some have kids, some go to church some dont, some like dogs, some like cats, some drive Mercedes Benz, some drive Fords, even I knew one that hada Yugo (interesting piece of machinery), some dye their hair, some dont, some get implants, some eat only meat, some are vegan, and so on. No one label actually describe any religious group because in the end of the day they are still people and still just as diverse.
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Mentalshock on December 19, 2012, 10:56:12 PM
People are people.  That's it, we're all just people.

   And why did I hear that in Nathan Fillion's voice?
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: corvus1970 on December 19, 2012, 10:57:57 PM
Because Nathan Fillion is awesome, that's why.

Reminds me when Kirk said "You know what, Spock? Everybody's human."
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Mentalshock on December 19, 2012, 11:17:16 PM
Hmm...


 Mal vs Kirk.

   Mal would probably shoot Kirk, just for the bad acting.
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: corvus1970 on December 19, 2012, 11:27:05 PM
Probably. But a fistfight between them would be hilarious!
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Mentalshock on December 20, 2012, 12:00:22 AM
Probably last at least 12 minutes.

    Sunglasses may or may not have been involved.
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: dwturducken on December 20, 2012, 12:56:37 AM
Hrm, good point. Let's hold off on that one, shall we?

Sorry. It's a really good idea. I didn't mean to deflate it.
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Victoria Victrix on December 20, 2012, 01:16:05 AM
I agree with you.  I've not set up an account to take money nor would I.  My idea was simply to ask whether the fans here thought there would be interest in investing in new development at the monthly subscription rate.  I expected arguments against it would include but not be limited to: there's not enough player interest in this; the devs wouldn't be interested; other problems related to monthly investment with nothing/little to show.  I never imagined lawsuits as a consequence of suggesting the idea.  I'm clueless as to what the basis for such an action would be.  That said, I withdraw the suggestion.  Besides my meager disability pension and few assets would make the legal costs of suing unlikely to be cost-effective.

Defamation of character in an attempt to link her name with a money-making scheme.  She would HAVE to sue you in order to decouple her name from someone trying to set up a potentially money-making enterprise in order to ward off potential lawsuits against her if things turned pear-shaped.  She would HAVE to sue you in order to decouple her name from a business enterprise to which she had not agreed.

If she didn't, she could potentially be liable for all sorts of bad things, and even NCSoft might be tempted to go after her.

Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: The Fifth Horseman on December 20, 2012, 01:24:45 AM
Having too ben around the world, I came across a wide range of people and all religion and overall most act like normal humans. Some (snip), and so on. No one label actually describe any religious group because in the end of the day they are still people and still just as diverse.
And the amusing specimens for whom the concept of a person not sharing their beliefs simply does not compute.

Meh. A quote from "Good Omens" (http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/5413-most-of-the-members-of-the-convent-were-old-fashioned-satanists) comes to mind.

Personally, I just adopt a simple rule: Live and let live as long as they're not invading my territory (including mental).
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: corvus1970 on December 20, 2012, 02:33:03 AM
Sorry. It's a really good idea. I didn't mean to deflate it.
S'okay, we'll just put a pin in it for the time being :)
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: JWBullfrog on December 20, 2012, 04:37:45 AM
Just remember ladies and gentlemen, if it sounds too good to be true it's probably fattening, addictive, bad for your heart, and will make your feet sweat at inopportune moments.
 
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Segev on December 20, 2012, 02:37:48 PM
But, but... aren't we evolved such that the better something tastes, the better it is for us?  :gonk:
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: corvus1970 on December 20, 2012, 04:26:41 PM
Unfortunately no, but with research there is hope!
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Osborn on December 21, 2012, 09:15:32 AM
But, but... aren't we evolved such that the better something tastes, the better it is for us?  :gonk:

In the sense that fatty foods are better than starvation, yes. The problem is the west has no lack of fatty foods any more, and a decreased amount of calories spent to get those.
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Segev on December 21, 2012, 03:27:05 PM
In the sense that fatty foods are better than starvation, yes. The problem is the west has no lack of fatty foods any more, and a decreased amount of calories spent to get those.
I'm aware; it was a joke.

Though the obvious solution is simply to begin augmenting our bodies with elements that provide increased convenience but consume more energy to operate. >_> <_<
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Starsman on December 21, 2012, 04:31:05 PM
In the sense that fatty foods are better than starvation, yes. The problem is the west has no lack of fatty foods any more, and a decreased amount of calories spent to get those.

I'm forced to correct to:

In the sense that carb rich foods are better than starvation, yes. The problem is the west has no lack of carb rich foods any more, and a decreased amount of calories spent to get those.

Our taste for sweetness and carb loveliness comes from our need to complement our diet with vegetables and fruit with meats as the primary source of nutrition. Science, though, has allowed us to create insanely concentrated amounts of carbs in small bites of food. You can eat a day worth of carb intake by eating something smaller an an Apple. Had you only eaten carbs entirely by eating fruit, your stomach would have never been able to accommodate so many carbs.

So, in short: our obsession with carb comes from our need of fruit and vegetables but does not acknowledge the possibility of an overdose. Eliminate bread, bakings (flour), pasta, candy and minimize potatoes and rice and you will not only lose a LOT of weight, but you will be way healthier. If you suffer from Type 2 Diabetes you may not even have to worry about it anymore unless your case is extreme.

*PS: My wife is a diabetes researcher.

Now we can resume our quest for millionaires!
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: JaguarX on December 21, 2012, 06:20:47 PM
I'm forced to correct to:

In the sense that carb rich foods are better than starvation, yes. The problem is the west has no lack of carb rich foods any more, and a decreased amount of calories spent to get those.

Our taste for sweetness and carb loveliness comes from our need to complement our diet with vegetables and fruit with meats as the primary source of nutrition. Science, though, has allowed us to create insanely concentrated amounts of carbs in small bites of food. You can eat a day worth of carb intake by eating something smaller an an Apple. Had you only eaten carbs entirely by eating fruit, your stomach would have never been able to accommodate so many carbs.

So, in short: our obsession with carb comes from our need of fruit and vegetables but does not acknowledge the possibility of an overdose. Eliminate bread, bakings (flour), pasta, candy and minimize potatoes and rice and you will not only lose a LOT of weight, but you will be way healthier. If you suffer from Type 2 Diabetes you may not even have to worry about it anymore unless your case is extreme.

*PS: My wife is a diabetes researcher.

Now we can resume our quest for millionaires!

got to eat according to lifestyle.

If you do not move around much, then probably not good to eat a bunch of carb loaded food.
If you lead an active lifestyle or strenuous work, I mean actual strenuous work that is more than moving a few fingers on a keyboard or writing, then carbs and energy rich foods are needed.

Eat according to your lifestyle, which takes some personal honesty, and you'll be ok.
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: JWBullfrog on December 21, 2012, 11:17:56 PM
cool.
 
My derailment of the derailment got derailed....
 
Do I get the redundant badge for that?
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Kistulot on December 21, 2012, 11:19:45 PM
cool.
 
My derailment of the derailment got derailed....
 
Do I get the redundant badge for that?

Due to a bug in the badge system, you will currently be awarded the Redundant badge with unaltered flavor text.
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Osborn on December 21, 2012, 11:24:13 PM
I'm forced to correct to:

In the sense that carb rich foods are better than starvation, yes. The problem is the west has no lack of carb rich foods any more, and a decreased amount of calories spent to get those.

Our taste for sweetness and carb loveliness comes from our need to complement our diet with vegetables and fruit with meats as the primary source of nutrition. Science, though, has allowed us to create insanely concentrated amounts of carbs in small bites of food. You can eat a day worth of carb intake by eating something smaller an an Apple. Had you only eaten carbs entirely by eating fruit, your stomach would have never been able to accommodate so many carbs.

So, in short: our obsession with carb comes from our need of fruit and vegetables but does not acknowledge the possibility of an overdose. Eliminate bread, bakings (flour), pasta, candy and minimize potatoes and rice and you will not only lose a LOT of weight, but you will be way healthier. If you suffer from Type 2 Diabetes you may not even have to worry about it anymore unless your case is extreme.

*PS: My wife is a diabetes researcher.

Now we can resume our quest for millionaires!
I'm not debating that, I just didn't want to turn the post into a science lecture and for most intents and purposes what both of us said for the layman are the same.

got to eat according to lifestyle.

If you do not move around much, then probably not good to eat a bunch of carb loaded food.
If you lead an active lifestyle or strenuous work, I mean actual strenuous work that is more than moving a few fingers on a keyboard or writing, then carbs and energy rich foods are needed.

Eat according to your lifestyle, which takes some personal honesty, and you'll be ok.

The problem is that not everybody has the time or money or even health education to eat 'according to their lifestyle' when you get BS marketing like 'Organic' and super duper cheap processed foods like Stars was talking about thrown into the equation.

Add to the fact that getting fat is super easy to do but the more fat you are the more difficult it is to stop being that, it's not a very easy situation for many people.
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: JaguarX on December 22, 2012, 02:16:35 AM


The problem is that not everybody has the time or money or even health education to eat 'according to their lifestyle' when you get BS marketing like 'Organic' and super duper cheap processed foods like Stars was talking about thrown into the equation.

Add to the fact that getting fat is super easy to do but the more fat you are the more difficult it is to stop being that, it's not a very easy situation for many people.

Well sounds like some may need to stop taking every food marketing scheme as concrete fact that everything they say buy you should buy and eat. Gotta make good personal choices. And if a person dont, there is no one to blame but themselves, regardless of how convincing the tv is.

Of course getting fat is easy. all you have to do is sit and do nothing but eat. But the fatter you get, the more difficult it is to get rid of it is very true. But it wont get any easier if they just continue to sit around doing nothing while still eating everything in sight because the tv said to or chasing every diet scheme that they come across. It's pretty simple. What ever energy you put into your body, it has to go somewhere. Either it is used, or stored. If you eat more than you use, you gain weight. If you eat less than you use you lose weight. Pretty simple in that regards and every body metabolism is difference and thus how many calories they burn baseline, aka, sitting doing nothing is also different. Some people can sit around and eat just about everything on the planet and moon and not gain a pound (of course depending on what they are eating, they still can suffer from high blood pressure and clogged arteries even while remaining thin.  On the other hand, some people have the metabolism of a Koala but lie to themselves thinking they have the metabolism of a rat and thus eat like someone with a high metabolism and wonder why they get fat.
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: eabrace on December 22, 2012, 02:21:50 AM
Know what I wish I had?  A device that would continuously monitor the amount of caloric energy I burned throughout the day so that I could accurately measure the amount of calories I took in accordingly.  It would be even better if it also monitored my heart rate, blood pressure, body temperature, electrolyte levels...

Hey, I can dream, can't I? :)

Actually, I'd even settle for an accurate method for measuring the calories I'm taking in.  Avoiding prepared foods is better for you, but trying to figure out how much is too much is a royal pain the ass when you're eating something like home-made pasta sauce.
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: JaguarX on December 22, 2012, 02:31:02 AM
Know what I wish I had?  A device that would continuously monitor the amount of caloric energy I burned throughout the day so that I could accurately measure the amount of calories I took in accordingly.  It would be even better if it also monitored my heart rate, blood pressure, body temperature, electrolyte levels...

Hey, I can dream, can't I? :)

Actually, I'd even settle for an accurate method for measuring the calories I'm taking in.  Avoiding prepared foods is better for you, but trying to figure out how much is too much is a royal pain the ass when you're trying to eating something like home-made pasta sauce.


Actually most doctor's offices have a machine that actually calculates your metabolism and how many calories you burn a day. But alas, it doesnt seem many people ask about it dont know about it or dont really want to find out about their metabolism.

In DoD system they call it Health Promotion office. They use that machine for people that want to find that out or count their calories and find out how many calories they can eat before hitting their baseline metabolism, meaning metabolism when doing nothing, which many people spend the day or days rather doing as far as exercise goes. Then they can also help you with a diet plan and help you choose healthier foods.  Big part of that is self control though. Too many people are too quick to help themselves to another helping of that famous good tasting pasta when they know they probably shouldnt.

Easiest way to do calculate if you are eating too much is, although slow, is what the weight. If you eat too much, more energy intake than you expend, then you'll probably gain weight. That means, how much a person been eating in the past, they should eat less. If the weight is maintaining, then that means it's about even.
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Osborn on December 22, 2012, 02:42:54 AM
Well sounds like some may need to stop taking every food marketing scheme as concrete fact that everything they say buy you should buy and eat. Gotta make good personal choices. And if a person dont, there is no one to blame but themselves, regardless of how convincing the tv is.

Of course getting fat is easy. all you have to do is sit and do nothing but eat. But the fatter you get, the more difficult it is to get rid of it is very true. But it wont get any easier if they just continue to sit around doing nothing while still eating everything in sight because the tv said to or chasing every diet scheme that they come across. It's pretty simple. What ever energy you put into your body, it has to go somewhere. Either it is used, or stored. If you eat more than you use, you gain weight. If you eat less than you use you lose weight. Pretty simple in that regards and every body metabolism is difference and thus how many calories they burn baseline, aka, sitting doing nothing is also different. Some people can sit around and eat just about everything on the planet and moon and not gain a pound (of course depending on what they are eating, they still can suffer from high blood pressure and clogged arteries even while remaining thin.  On the other hand, some people have the metabolism of a Koala but lie to themselves thinking they have the metabolism of a rat and thus eat like someone with a high metabolism and wonder why they get fat.

I'm not in the mood to make this political or to let what I said slide into some topic where we all gather around and do some fat shaming.

I'll just say that the amount of calories needed to lose weight is way less than the amount of calories needed to keep a healthy weight, and the inverse is true for exercise. It's not necessarily possible for somebody that is overweight to only eat or do the exercise that somebody healthy does to maintain their healthy weight. They have to do more than that, they have to eat even less in calories and do even more exercise.

It's not just a matter of subtracting what their calorie intake is to even them out with what a healthy person eats. They'll maintain their fat level, or in some cases continue to gain weight. A person's entire metabolism changes when they become fat to help them stay fat. That's not to mention the difficulty that it can be for somebody who's truly obese to actually do exercise. It could become unhealthy for them to do things that healthy people can do, like run, because their fat could strain their joints or permanently mess up their back or knees or whatever. They could be come physically incapable of doing other things.

It's easy to just shame people. And yes, in a lot of cases it might be their fault in the sense that nobody came by and fires a Twinkie cannon into their mouth. I'm not debating that. But none of that really helps solve the problem. That's like having your kid jump off a roof to do a trick and breaking his legs, and telling him to walk it off, because we with our unbroken legs can walk. It's not very helpful advice at this point. Making people feel ashamed doesn't help them get healthy it just makes them stay fat. It helps to defeat them before they even get up to try to do something that their body and their ingrained instincts are already telling them to give up on.

That's why a better solution is to make healthy choices easier. And if cutting out lying on products that trick people who frankly shouldn't be expected to have a PHD in nutrition does that, then great.

Yes, with enough due diligence one can read every fine print on every thing they buy or do, you can read every EULA and TOS to every video game, food product, car, television service and pair of underwear you ever purchase. And yes, in theory you 'should'. But it would become your full time unpaid career, and I suspect that most of you already got jobs or chores or school to do or kids to take care of or whatever.

So I think it better to expect that food companies don't get away with pretending their processed junk is health food. Because losing weight from obesity is anything but simple.

Then throw in people who are food insecure who can only afford the cheapest bull crap processed hotdogs and medicine and time insecure because scarce jobs would rather pay you almost nothing and put the tab of your food and emergency medical costs on the public dime instead of paying a living wage and expect you to be on call 24/7 with a schedule that fluctuates wildly from week to week, and you have a recipe for a large amount of people who are going to fall into this trap.

Saying it's simple, is again, like saying "Walking's simple!" to somebody with no legs. Yes, I'm sure that with the proper help and therapy and maybe prosthetics it's possible, and I salute the people who manage it, but saying "Just do it" is a gross understatement of what's involved.

I'm pretty sure if it was so simple we wouldn't have like a 33% obesity rate in a country where being fat is something to be ashamed of and we worship skinny people, especially skinny women, where even being slightly overweight is seen as 'unrealistic' for anybody except maybe a villain.

Name a single fat actress in a even remotely heroic position in a movie. Heck, in CoH you couldn't even MAKE a fat woman. Oh, you could get a relatively fat man with the Huge skeleton, but fat women? Heck no. You could set the sliders to max and get an olympian ripped woman with giant breasts, but fat was out of the question.
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Kistulot on December 22, 2012, 02:44:20 AM
While off topic discussion is healthy for a community remaining friendly, I think this topic has veered so far away from something belonging in the "Save Paragon City!" part of the forum that I think it might be best to either start a new thread elsewhere, or drop the topic.

Its just getting a little out of hand...
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: JaguarX on December 22, 2012, 02:57:53 AM
I'm not in the mood to make this political or to let what I said slide into some topic where we all gather around and do some fat shaming.

I'll just say that the amount of calories needed to lose weight is way less than the amount of calories needed to keep a healthy weight, and the inverse is true for exercise. It's not necessarily possible for somebody that is overweight to only eat or do the exercise that somebody healthy does to maintain their healthy weight. They have to do more than that, they have to eat even less in calories and do even more exercise.

It's not just a matter of subtracting what their calorie intake is to even them out with what a healthy person eats. They'll maintain their fat level, or in some cases continue to gain weight. A person's entire metabolism changes when they become fat to help them stay fat. That's not to mention the difficulty that it can be for somebody who's truly obese to actually do exercise. It could become unhealthy for them to do things that healthy people can do, like run, because their fat could strain their joints or permanently mess up their back or knees or whatever. They could be come physically incapable of doing other things.

It's easy to just shame people. And yes, in a lot of cases it might be their fault in the sense that nobody came by and fires a Twinkie cannon into their mouth. I'm not debating that. But none of that really helps solve the problem. That's like having your kid jump off a roof to do a trick and breaking his legs, and telling him to walk it off, because we with our unbroken legs can walk. It's not very helpful advice at this point. Making people feel ashamed doesn't help them get healthy it just makes them stay fat. It helps to defeat them before they even get up to try to do something that their body and their ingrained instincts are already telling them to give up on.

That's why a better solution is to make healthy choices easier. And if cutting out lying on products that trick people who frankly shouldn't be expected to have a PHD in nutrition does that, then great.

Yes, with enough due diligence one can read every fine print on every thing they buy or do, you can read every EULA and TOS to every video game, food product, car, television service and pair of underwear you ever purchase. And yes, in theory you 'should'. But it would become your full time unpaid career, and I suspect that most of you already got jobs or chores or school to do or kids to take care of or whatever.

So I think it better to expect that food companies don't get away with pretending their processed junk is health food. Because losing weight from obesity is anything but simple.

Then throw in people who are food insecure who can only afford the cheapest bull crap processed hotdogs and medicine and time insecure because scarce jobs would rather pay you almost nothing and put the tab of your food and emergency medical costs on the public dime instead of paying a living wage and expect you to be on call 24/7 with a schedule that fluctuates wildly from week to week, and you have a recipe for a large amount of people who are going to fall into this trap.

Saying it's simple, is again, like saying "Walking's simple!" to somebody with no legs. Yes, I'm sure that with the proper help and therapy and maybe prosthetics it's possible, and I salute the people who manage it, but saying "Just do it" is a gross understatement of what's involved.

I'm pretty sure if it was so simple we wouldn't have like a 33% obesity rate in a country where being fat is something to be ashamed of and we worship skinny people, especially skinny women, where even being slightly overweight is seen as 'unrealistic' for anybody except maybe a villain.

Name a single fat actress in a even remotely heroic position in a movie. Heck, in CoH you couldn't even MAKE a fat woman. Oh, you could get a relatively fat man with the Huge skeleton, but fat women? Heck no. You could set the sliders to max and get an olympian ripped woman with giant breasts, but fat was out of the question.

Well I'm not fat shaming or turning it into a political statement by any means. I'm saying that the information is out there, and it's simple process to lose weight if one chose to unless some other health issue is preventing it, and that is where the analogy with the man with no legs will find walking difficult. But if a person can walk if they chose to but chose to not too then wonder why they cant walk years down the line or find walking difficult, who fault is that? The tv? Yeah the tv is to blame. Everyone is to blame except the person who have the ability to make that choice to eat healthy or get fat? Never the person's fault. I forgot we live in the time where personal responsibility for themselves is all but dead. It's always someone else fault for actions and lifestyle they choose. The tv wont die of heart attack or gain weight. The person will. It's up to them to do something about it or just accept the consequences of their actions.

For example, I think you are a lawyer or something according to some of your past posts, and I'm sure getting to where you are at was no cake walk. What did it take? Sitting around doing nothing? nope probably took some determination, some personal responsibility, a goal, and actually working to do that goal. The will power. Same thing with weight. Once it's there of course it may be hard to find the will to lose the weight, but the process is easy. But if one dont have thaat drive to get rid of those pounds, then cant blame food companies, or everyone else in the world. Just like if you just decides to drop out of law school because the work is a challenge. Is the TV to blame for that too? There is no shame in being fat if that is what a person choose to be. If they feel shame, then they have to gather some inner will power and get to where they are going because sitting there doing nothing blaming the world for their fatness is going to do nothing but help that person get fatter and feel more shame. It's up to them to take interest in their health. If they dont want to put in work, they wont achieve it. Just like if you dont put in work to be a lawyer or what ever career a person choose, you wont go anywhere. No one can just wake up and be a lawyer just like that with no work. It's simple, work for it and get it or dont work for it and slide further down the the hole that a person dont want to be or claim to not want to be in.
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: johnrobey on December 22, 2012, 09:59:08 AM
Defamation of character in an attempt to link her name with a money-making scheme.  She would HAVE to sue you in order to decouple her name from someone trying to set up a potentially money-making enterprise in order to ward off potential lawsuits against her if things turned pear-shaped.  She would HAVE to sue you in order to decouple her name from a business enterprise to which she had not agreed.

If she didn't, she could potentially be liable for all sorts of bad things, and even NCSoft might be tempted to go after her.

So, am I in the clear?  I don't think I've engaged in defamation of character, and I know I haven't started any money-making scheme (nor plan to.)

IF Ms. Bianco or any other dev is looking for employment/supplemental income, and IF enough of the fans here were likewise willing (this is all purely hypothetical) then perhaps via a monthly investment program (akin though different from subscription) we MIGHT be able to hire her or other devs as either consultants or lead designers for either of the Plan Z projects.  Does this idea have any merit?  (I'm completely willing to hear that it doesn't.)
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Victoria Victrix on December 22, 2012, 10:28:43 AM
So, am I in the clear?  I don't think I've engaged in defamation of character, and I know I haven't started any money-making scheme (nor plan to.)

IF Ms. Bianco or any other dev is looking for employment/supplemental income, and IF enough of the fans here were likewise willing (this is all purely hypothetical) then perhaps via a monthly investment program (akin though different from subscription) we MIGHT be able to hire her or other devs as either consultants or lead designers for either of the Plan Z projects.  Does this idea have any merit?  (I'm completely willing to hear that it doesn't.)

I can't speak for Plan Z as I am not a part of it.  As for Melissa Bianco, you would have to consult with her first and have her oversight on anything you did that had her name attached to it.  I have no idea if she or any other devs would be interested, or even able, to consult on anything.
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Minotaur on December 22, 2012, 11:53:56 AM

I'll just say that the amount of calories needed to lose weight is way less than the amount of calories needed to keep a healthy weight, and the inverse is true for exercise. It's not necessarily possible for somebody that is overweight to only eat or do the exercise that somebody healthy does to maintain their healthy weight. They have to do more than that, they have to eat even less in calories and do even more exercise.

It's not just a matter of subtracting what their calorie intake is to even them out with what a healthy person eats.

Absolute rubbish.

To maintain a weight of 280 lbs requires more calories than to maintain a weight of 180 assuming similar lifestyle.

Somebody weighing 280, eating the amount of calories required to maintain 180 will lose weight.

I know, I've lost nearly 40 lbs eating more calories than my more active friend who's steady at about half my weight.
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: dwturducken on December 22, 2012, 02:33:11 PM
While off topic discussion is healthy for a community remaining friendly, I think this topic has veered so far away from something belonging in the "Save Paragon City!" part of the forum that I think it might be best to either start a new thread elsewhere, or drop the topic.

Its just getting a little out of hand...

Hush, you!  :P
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Kistulot on December 22, 2012, 10:33:00 PM
Hush, you!  :P

NEVER! :p
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: TonyV on December 24, 2012, 09:14:56 PM
I know, I've lost nearly 40 lbs eating more calories than my more active friend who's steady at about half my weight.

Not to worry, I found 'em.
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Minotaur on December 24, 2012, 11:29:44 PM
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: healix on December 25, 2012, 09:48:30 AM
*sigh*  according to the medical charts with the weight/height ratio, I should be 12' 8"" tall..... :(
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Minotaur on December 25, 2012, 10:34:03 AM
*sigh*  according to the medical charts with the weight/height ratio, I should be 12' 8"" tall..... :(

ah, the old Garfield "I'm not overweight I'm undertall".
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: johnrobey on December 25, 2012, 02:17:23 PM
As one of my gamer buddies likes to say, "I'm not 'out of shape.'  ROUND is a shape!"   ;)
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Atlantea on December 25, 2012, 06:55:54 PM
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Atlantea on December 25, 2012, 06:56:20 PM
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Atlantea on December 25, 2012, 06:57:50 PM
While off topic discussion is healthy for a community remaining friendly, I think this topic has veered so far away from something belonging in the "Save Paragon City!" part of the forum that I think it might be best to either start a new thread elsewhere, or drop the topic.

Its just getting a little out of hand...

We apologize for the fault in the subtitles. Those responsible have been sacked.

Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Mister Bison on December 25, 2012, 08:18:59 PM
Absolute rubbish.

To maintain a weight of 280 lbs requires more calories than to maintain a weight of 180 assuming similar lifestyle.

Somebody weighing 280, eating the amount of calories required to maintain 180 will lose weight.

I know, I've lost nearly 40 lbs eating more calories than my more active friend who's steady at about half my weight.
I'd guess it depends on the lifestyle, actually. Considering calorie is needed for three things: chemical activity (also called metabolism, including food processing, heat, and baseline living), physical activity, and brain activity.

Normally brain activity is the same for everybody, or is in a baseline. You don't really burn less calorie when you think less, you just get fatigued more or less rapidly.

What's different in a "thin" person and a "fat" person, is heat dispersion. If you look at a person with thermal vision, you'll notice thin people tend to let go of more heat than fat people (if you've got some fat, you could also get naked a bit and touch it after an hour, it'll be colder than no-fat places, for instance, under your arm, even if you let it lifted so that heat doesn't build up). Don't underestimate our hot-bloodness, it does burn a lot of calories, as scientists will tell you, why are insects, fishes and in a less meaningful manner bird, more efficient at producing meat than cattle (cows, sheep, etc), is that they are cold-blooded, less wasted calories into heat !

For physical activity (even walking), a fat person is going to expend more than a thin one. I think you all get the point.

So if the lifestyle is more car-desk-car-telly-bed than walk-stand-walk-jog-bed, it does put one more at a drain here.

I'm also putting under the carpet the fact that muscles drain more than fat to "live", and that cold food doesn't give all its calories than hot because the body has to heat it. Or how much coffee/tea you're drinking instead of cold water.
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Osborn on December 25, 2012, 09:11:03 PM
I'd guess it depends on the lifestyle, actually. Considering calorie is needed for three things: chemical activity (also called metabolism, including food processing, heat, and baseline living), physical activity, and brain activity.

Normally brain activity is the same for everybody, or is in a baseline. You don't really burn less calorie when you think less, you just get fatigued more or less rapidly.

What's different in a "thin" person and a "fat" person, is heat dispersion. If you look at a person with thermal vision, you'll notice thin people tend to let go of more heat than fat people (if you've got some fat, you could also get naked a bit and touch it after an hour, it'll be colder than no-fat places, for instance, under your arm, even if you let it lifted so that heat doesn't build up). Don't underestimate our hot-bloodness, it does burn a lot of calories, as scientists will tell you, why are insects, fishes and in a less meaningful manner bird, more efficient at producing meat than cattle (cows, sheep, etc), is that they are cold-blooded, less wasted calories into heat !

For physical activity (even walking), a fat person is going to expend more than a thin one. I think you all get the point.

So if the lifestyle is more car-desk-car-telly-bed than walk-stand-walk-jog-bed, it does put one more at a drain here.

I'm also putting under the carpet the fact that muscles drain more than fat to "live", and that cold food doesn't give all its calories than hot because the body has to heat it. Or how much coffee/tea you're drinking instead of cold water.

Birds aren't cold blooded.
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Mister Bison on December 25, 2012, 10:18:37 PM
Birds aren't cold blooded.
I know, but feathers really shield them well, and while hot blooded, don't need to heat as much. Birds forked from reptiles eons ago, they aren't that far.

That's why governments sometimes fund house isolation... ;) Because that's a waste of energy for the same result ;)
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: srmalloy on December 26, 2012, 02:01:47 AM
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: tymothymichel on December 26, 2012, 07:37:28 AM
To go way completely off topic....I'm surprised that ncs never offered the "lifetime membership" option that sto, lotro and secret world all have, they could have sold the idea twice and made a bang up profit, rather than just shutting down as they did. Pity it wasn't at the very least on the table...
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Perfidus on December 26, 2012, 08:01:46 AM
They never did it because typically a lifetime membership is offered at, or near, launch. And CoH launched in 2004. While 2004 was not the birth of MMOs, it surely was its infancy. Things like lifetime memberships never computed.

On a side note... really? Really...? You're asking why they didn't find a way to take -more- money from us before they shut down? Lifetime memberships or not, they were going to shut down once whatever higher up in NCSoft decided it to be so. Suggesting they should've had lifetime subs wouldn't have fixed that. It only would've ensured we gave money to a company we didn't like.
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Atlantea on December 26, 2012, 08:20:06 AM
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Ice Trix on December 26, 2012, 10:15:49 AM
Somebody please PM me with the link!

Web searching 419 eaters will get you one of the most popular sites.
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: corvus1970 on December 26, 2012, 03:40:20 PM
We apologize for the fault in the subtitles. Those responsible have been sacked.
Ahhh, Monty Python quotes :)
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Starsman on December 26, 2012, 06:09:50 PM
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Osborn on December 26, 2012, 09:01:22 PM
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Starsman on December 26, 2012, 09:37:38 PM
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Minotaur on December 26, 2012, 09:47:30 PM
Starsman, what you propose (almost eliminating carbs) is the American orthodoxy, but you'll find British doctors prescribe VERY differently. I'm a type 2 diabetic, and eat a low sugar but pretty normal complex carb, lowish fat diet which is working well. The key for me is simply calories not carbs and hence portion control.
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Starsman on December 26, 2012, 10:17:14 PM
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Osborn on December 26, 2012, 11:12:43 PM
I'm done with the dietary talk, so you guys debate that among yourselves.

They never did it because typically a lifetime membership is offered at, or near, launch. And CoH launched in 2004. While 2004 was not the birth of MMOs, it surely was its infancy. Things like lifetime memberships never computed.

On a side note... really? Really...? You're asking why they didn't find a way to take -more- money from us before they shut down? Lifetime memberships or not, they were going to shut down once whatever higher up in NCSoft decided it to be so. Suggesting they should've had lifetime subs wouldn't have fixed that. It only would've ensured we gave money to a company we didn't like.

Yeah, if CoH had lifetime subscriptions it would had basically been giving NCSoft more of our money before they closed the game down on us.

It's natural to think, when something like this happens like "How could we had supported the game more? Could I had given more to prevent this!", and maybe wise to think if a game shuts down due to it not making money, but we gotta remember that this game was shut down for reasons other than it not making money. Whatever they may be, as we don't really know for sure.

I think if CoH had adopted Lifetime Subscriptions in 2004, it's not like the game would still be alive right now. There'd just be a small group of people who dumped even MORE money into NCSoft's coffers who got their game closed down on them.

All accounts suggest that the game was making money AND that the switch to Free to Play had increased cash coming in. All evidence suggest that as far as the guys actually 'hands on' with the game, they expected it to continue at least for the foreseeable future, and were busy pumping out loads of new content and power sets and salable items.

That's not something you do if you've been running in the red for a long time, unless there was some suspicious insider trading going on.
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: tymothymichel on December 27, 2012, 08:10:22 PM
They never did it because typically a lifetime membership is offered at, or near, launch. And CoH launched in 2004. While 2004 was not the birth of MMOs, it surely was its infancy. Things like lifetime memberships never computed.

On a side note... really? Really...? You're asking why they didn't find a way to take -more- money from us before they shut down? Lifetime memberships or not, they were going to shut down once whatever higher up in NCSoft decided it to be so. Suggesting they should've had lifetime subs wouldn't have fixed that. It only would've ensured we gave money to a company we didn't like.

All I know, before you return to being snarky, is that if games that were released in 2001 say like anarchy online are still up and running, I think that if they had offered a lifetime membership, it may have been enough of an incentive to let a server stay online even if there were no updates. Just to keep the lifetimers happy. I know you're upset with ncs, all of us are. No reason to bite a guy's head off, just saying.
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Ironwolf on December 27, 2012, 08:57:24 PM
I can give you my dietary changes that helped me lose 45 pounds so far in the last 6 months.

1. eat protein early in the day - in fact I eat 2 ground turkey patties most mornings for breakfast and a glass of juice either orange or grape.
2. Brunch 10 am or so some nuts or fruit (I like water melon)
3. Lunch usually have a peanut butter and jam sandwich with fruit. Drink water or milk.
4. Dinner eat steak, chicken, fish or venison. I also have a large helping of vegatables.

Take a multivitamin and a BCAA (branch chain amino acid) and the weight will start to fall off slowly. I don't ever look at calories - I look at salt content. If you keep salt under 1800mg a day (with the occasionaly pizza binge) you will lose weight as it limits how much junk you can eat.

I now get almost everyone saying holy cow you look good now. I went from 286 to 241 in 6 months and it seemed effortless. The other trick - walk, just walk and relax for 30 minutes a day on top of the diet changes and you will be amazed at how quickly your body changes. i have always been the large hulking body builder type and now I look like the typical MMA fighter type. Tight and slim is a better look in my eyes especially as I am now 53.
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Atlantea on December 27, 2012, 09:23:46 PM
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Minotaur on December 27, 2012, 11:18:11 PM
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: downix on February 11, 2013, 06:08:26 PM
Events lately make me have to bring this post back. That "millionaire friend" can mean a lot of things, from someone with cash to someone with an "experienced team ready to make your perfect dream come true." Someone comes along offering everyone you are wanting, step back and look at it more carefully. Someone approached me not too long ago offering what is in effect a turnkey game solution, but when I checked it out, turned out that they had a half dozen dead projects in their past, and a history of rapid announcement, then abandonment.

Someone comes along with the "perfect solution" always be wary.
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Victoria Victrix on February 12, 2013, 01:14:40 AM
Events lately make me have to bring this post back. That "millionaire friend" can mean a lot of things, from someone with cash to someone with an "experienced team ready to make your perfect dream come true." Someone comes along offering everyone you are wanting, step back and look at it more carefully. Someone approached me not too long ago offering what is in effect a turnkey game solution, but when I checked it out, turned out that they had a half dozen dead projects in their past, and a history of rapid announcement, then abandonment.

Someone comes along with the "perfect solution" always be wary.

QFT

When thinking about investing time or money (or both) in a startup game company, always check their track record.  The "turnkey game solution" may turn out to require about 3 years of work developing lore and story.
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: no hero on February 12, 2013, 11:16:53 PM
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Joshex on February 17, 2013, 03:49:38 AM
Victoria, then again some of us really had millionare friends, I say had for me cause.. he's gone now. his room mate and sister are still around but niether of them has legal claim to his money, he never asked for anything from me,  always giving instead..

the guy was the head of a game company hence where his money was coming from, that is until he got hit by a truck.

right now his sister is fighting his parents in court for the money and business. his parents are @#$% wads that abbandonned him and his sister when he was 6 and he never heard from them ever then they show up when he's dead to collect the money..

sometimes we do have millionare friends, a real millionare friend proves it, I remember he used to pay for me and a few other friend's CoH subscriptions (his offer). he bought me DCUO on steam and paid for some game time (his offer again. infact he insisted) for me but my computer couldn't run DCUO. (hey DC I'm talking to you, yo wonder why you don't have many players? you wonder why it's so hard to make as much content as in CoH? cause your graphics are too much for the average game player's computer. which also makes it hard on you to develop things)

anyways, lets get back to the topic, real millionares aren't ashamed to say where they are getting money from, they aren't scared to spend a little on friends, cause when you have that much money even 100 a month in game fees doesn't even come close to making you concerned about anything.

I miss him.. used to play as @alanpoe and later changed it to @thatsmesothere

before he died he made me the head of his supergroup... it's really my memories of him that make me so intensely desperate for the game to return especially with all our progress/ SG's intact.

now I gotta go calm down.. GRRRR NCSOFT!!!!!!! I will do anything it takes to see CoH back.
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: JaguarX on February 17, 2013, 04:51:40 AM
Victoria, then again some of us really had millionare friends, I say had for me cause.. he's gone now. his room mate and sister are still around but niether of them has legal claim to his money, he never asked for anything from me,  always giving instead..

the guy was the head of a game company hence where his money was coming from, that is until he got hit by a truck.

right now his sister is fighting his parents in court for the money and business. his parents are @#$% wads that abbandonned him and his sister when he was 6 and he never heard from them ever then they show up when he's dead to collect the money..

sometimes we do have millionare friends, a real millionare friend proves it, I remember he used to pay for me and a few other friend's CoH subscriptions (his offer). he bought me DCUO on steam and paid for some game time (his offer again. infact he insisted) for me but my computer couldn't run DCUO. (hey DC I'm talking to you, yo wonder why you don't have many players? you wonder why it's so hard to make as much content as in CoH? cause your graphics are too much for the average game player's computer. which also makes it hard on you to develop things)

anyways, lets get back to the topic, real millionares aren't ashamed to say where they are getting money from, they aren't scared to spend a little on friends, cause when you have that much money even 100 a month in game fees doesn't even come close to making you concerned about anything.

I miss him.. used to play as @alanpoe and later changed it to @thatsmesothere

before he died he made me the head of his supergroup... it's really my memories of him that make me so intensely desperate for the game to return especially with all our progress/ SG's intact.

now I gotta go calm down.. GRRRR NCSOFT!!!!!!! I will do anything it takes to see CoH back.

Wow he sounded liek a friendly guy.

I knwo a couple of millionaires myself and not many are as friendly as that. Some are cheap buggers. One was a little more carefree. And another was born into it and could be a butt at times but wasnt afraid to help people out. Then there are some that are not millionaires but have enough cash that they are very comfortable and a couple of them are near millionaires. One (not sure if they are millionaire or not but they are loaded. He tends to be hush hush about it but his wife said a while back that money is not even any longer an issue) wife played the game extensively but uhm...she's still a little steamed about some stuff so it will be hard sell to get him to invest in a game if and when the time come. He personally dont play video games at all but she do and if she say she want to invest he will put into it how ever much she says to but if she say no he wont put a dime into it. But he can be a gold mine. He know many multi-millionaires who basically do nothing but invest in stuff and he is good at convincing as that is how he made his fortune well that and the 450,000 inheritance that got him starte. But it all depends on his gamer wife and what she said. Last time I mentioned COX and the projects she kind of looked at me as if she wanted to rip my head off and play soccer with it. I'll give it a few more weeks and try again maybe she cooled down by then. 
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: johnrobey on February 17, 2013, 05:29:32 AM
It's a curious thing about millionaires/moneyed people when and how they got their fortunes; whether it was inherited recently or over long generations or even recently earned (e.g. Andrew Carnegie, philanthropist who used part of his wealth to create public libraries in towns and cities lacking them.)   I believe I am already OUT, per se, so this won't be shocking, but for a time once I dated the grown son of millionaires; he was actually a really nice guy but the crowd he was with all knew he had money.  He liked me because I wasn't at all interested in his wealth but liked him for himself - his friends however all knew he had money, often had a bit of it themselves, and in social settings it was evident that all of his so-called friends mostly valued Michael for his money and/or how he could help them get ahead in the money game.  Ironically, i did most of the driving since his car-for-use wasn't collectible (he had 3 others) yet he hated to drive it because mileage depreciated the value; whereas my vehicle, like my life, is purely for use.

(Oversharing)  I suppose if I had played my cards right, i might have "enjoyed" a life in the lap of luxury as a bird in a gilded cage - but that wasn't for me, nor ever shall be.  As a friend once remarked, "Everyone should have the opportunity to marry at least once for money, and then have the good sense to reject it!"  Needless to say she's now wonderfully, happily married, tho it took a few years for she and her beloved to get their attunement and timing to the proper level.   ;)
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: healix on February 17, 2013, 02:46:02 PM
I am the richest person I know....I just don't have much money
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: johnrobey on February 18, 2013, 03:10:21 AM
I am the richest person I know....I just don't have much money
ROFLMAO, Healix!!  That's so true!  Many people (not just fans) are rich far beyond money, and often have more fun, are more civil, more social, even better educated (e.g. who else knows gaming and other trivia like us?!)  Poor dears, if all they have is money.  Maybe that's why Mr. Donald Trump seems so angry much of the time.  I actually feel kinda sorry for the upper elite who, despite having all that money can buy, still have sorrow, unhappiness, and even misery, just like everybody else.

Omitting the quote about being good to one another.
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Twisted Toon on February 18, 2013, 07:42:56 AM
ROFLMAO, Healix!!  That's so true!  Many people (not just fans) are rich far beyond money, and often have more fun, are more civil, more social, even better educated (e.g. who else knows gaming and other trivia like us?!)  Poor dears, if all they have is money.  Maybe that's why Mr. Donald Trump seems so angry much of the time.  I actually feel kinda sorry for the upper elite who, despite having all that money can buy, still have sorrow, unhappiness, and even misery, just like everybody else.

Omitting the quote about being good to one another.
I think that the best rich (in a monetary sense) people are those who grew up poor, remember what it was like, and remember that there is more to life than money.

If I were to win the lottery and acquire $350M as winnings, I think I'd keep only $5M for myself. The rest would go to close personal friends, family (close and personal), and maybe buy CoH from NCSoft. Which, I would then either give to Matt Miller and Melissa Bianco, or form a company and get them as the lead Devs to run the game. I'm not a businessman, so I don't really know what all I'd need to do to run a company...  :o

What would I do with more than $5M anyway?
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: JWBullfrog on February 18, 2013, 05:16:20 PM

What would I do with more than $5M anyway?

Sounds about right to me. Now, if I could only get the opportunity to find out.
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Segev on February 18, 2013, 05:42:38 PM
What would I do with more than $5M anyway?
Be a big enough player to get NCSoft to name you a price for CoH lock, stock, and barrel, and then say "sure?"
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: JaguarX on February 18, 2013, 06:23:55 PM
  I actually feel kinda sorry for the upper elite who, despite having all that money can buy, still have sorrow, unhappiness, and even misery, just like everybody else.



Yeah money dont buy happiness but can be used to buy things that make you happy.

And sorrow, misery, unhappiness, is a persona matter that no materialistic thing can change. Some people will always be unhappy whether they have 2 dollars or 20 billion. Some people will be miserable, while others will be happy whether they have 2 cents or 30 million. Although I rather be miserable in a mansion with million rather than miserable and living in a box.
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Segev on February 18, 2013, 07:10:51 PM
Money may not buy happiness, but it does make life SO much easier.
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: JaguarX on February 18, 2013, 08:51:04 PM
Money may not buy happiness, but it does make life SO much easier.
yup, very much easier.
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: Ironwolf on February 18, 2013, 09:26:35 PM
My mother used to work as a atx consultant for a Mr. Pat Patrick, who was a very rich multimillionaire. He had 5 Indy car racing teams and was a really nice guy. He once saw me waiting to pick my mother up from work and asked who I was waiting for - yes he would often go down to the lobby to talk to visitors - I said who it was and he said well what are you doing this weekend? I had no plans and said if you like we have a race at MIS (Michigan International Speedway) and I can give you 6 tickets for the pits and you can go to our Winnebago and eat and drink whatever you like as long as you leave after the race so the drivers can relax.

It was an awesome weekend!

Then he also had a kid who mowed his lawns and he asked him what he wanted to do with his life? The kid replied I would love to learn to work in a pitcrew in racing - the next week the kid had a small job and actually worked his way up to running his own crew. This nice guy also had two very spoiled children who were absolutely worthless and just wanted daddies money.

They both ended up with drugs and alcohol problems and I don't believe ever amounted to much. So money can help make you comfortable but it doesn't make you happy.
Title: Re: Beware "My Millionaire Friend"
Post by: The Fifth Horseman on February 18, 2013, 09:29:01 PM
Money: The cheat code to life, universe and everything.
And like every cheat code, it murders the challenge.