Titan Network
Community => Other Games => Champions Online => Topic started by: Eoraptor on July 30, 2013, 02:18:08 AM
-
Okay, so I'm trying to figure this out... but I can't quite put it into words, nor can I quite put my finger on what "it" is precisely.
Many of us who played and loved City of Heroes because it was a superhero RPG, largely shunned Cryptic Entertainment's followup effort "Champions Online."
Even now, with the death of Paragon City, many of us play CO only begrudgingly it seems.
Now, I can identify some things I don't care for, such as the RPG-inspired numbers management system, and the cheesey voice acting which stands out because there is so little of it and it is of only middling quality. (the limited character archetypes bums me too, but that's because I can't pay-for-play)
but none of these things should explain why it is that I pine so dearly for Paragon City but would be fairly unconcerned if Millenium City were to burn. The basic writing and story telling is of roughly the same level in both games... and yet, one game compels me to want it back, and to want to explore more... the other is only on my hard drive at this point because it's margnally less depressing than the ghost towns of SEGS and Icon.
What about you? How does C.O. make you feel? do you like it or now? and can you articulate that?
-
I like the freeform system, but hate the archtypes. I hate the way support is handled, so limited are the variety of powers that crowd control. People who say it exists never played a game with 10+ powersets DEDICATED to crowd control. They're definition of crowd control seems to be "Well if your a mind player your supposed to be crowd control, if your crowd control your supposed to be a mind player."
And it's sickening.
Understand, I like the rpers who don't focus so much on that, but I find people just don't get variety. They don't understand it at all in reality when it comes to CO. They're definition of balance has become the very thing they didn't want to begin with, the "you play the way I want to, you don't make the champion you want." mentality has taken such root in CO that I feel ashamed of whats happened to it. I feel like the holy trinity has taken root in CO in the worst way; people feel balance is you HAVE to have X for a team, which is honestly the worst form of fake balance i've ever seen in my life.
Understand at the same time, I enjoy CO itself, because you can make quite a few different types of characters in it. But like the original poster says, it's a bitter relationship now. If the game got the foundary i'd appreciate it, but the thing I'd need from it is being able to introduce real difficulty, which brings me to the next problem of CO, it's TO EASY.
Mobs do very little damage in CO, even on elite mode a decent leveled toon can demolish everything fast enough without losing much health. Then I get trolled for doing that when I complain on the forums about the weakness of the mobs saying "well don't min max.". I shouldn't have to gimp my character to get a chalange in a game, if anything I should have to min/max a little to meet the highest challenge levels I feel. Then you have the idiots who think the game has to be so stupidly easy because of the "casual player base", when in reality the casual player base only plays lower difficulty settings anyways when they find higher settings are harder, they rarely care and are not discouraged from playing just cause they cannot play the highest settings. The highest difficulties should be for advanced players, but it's as if they cater even elite mode to mediocre equiped archtypes. CoX had demonic spiders, but those demonic spiders not only had counters to them, but allowed enough challenge to keep the game interesting.
-
I quite simply can't stand it for a variety of reasons. So I don't play it. Simple as that. Interface was the number one insane driving thing, followed by the look, then quite a few other things that I won't get into.
I'm glad others like it, but much like 'what kind of car should I drive' is never a question to ask anyone else*, C.O. and me don't get along.
/*- the obvious answer is a custom short bus. Those are cool.
-
Well - let me see if I can articulate this clearly. Who knows, maybe I'll even understand it myself.
With CoH, there was a great deal to learn, and I learned a little bit at first, and really, at the games closing, I was only just scratching the surface of figuring out how to get the most out of my characters, given my clumsy fingers and a distaste of using a mouse to click on a power to execute the attack.
With Champions, the interface is ...well, it's just different. Not hugely so, but I can't use my keys to travel the same way, so movement is not second nature yet. It will take a great deal of time to relearn movement in such a way that moving is second nature, instead of having to look down at the keyboard to see which key to press.
Also - the very largest difference for me is the lack of the LB channel(Liberty's badging/taskforce/iTrial/all around teaming channel) from CoH. Even though there was a great deal of drama on the channel at times, it was like a very large supergroup, in which you could pick and choose who you wanted to join you for whatever task or trial you had in mind. I realize that there's a couple of CoH channels in Champions, but I won't know those names the same way that I knew them in LB or even LFA, and a couple of the other private channels. (and thus far, I've only played a couple of characters to level 6, and I think I've only done one instanced door mission to date so I havent' even learned anything about how to slot a power, or even if there is slotting. I see a grid, but I've yet to figure out its purpose. The terminology is different, and the in-game explanations must have been boring or something, because after 8 years of doing things one way, I think I'm forgetting to look for the answers.
CoH also had an incredible amount of blind invites, or even tells before an invite - and Champions doesn't appear to have any kind of teaming option - which is fine, because I'd be quite useless, as I still need to go through the tutorial another few times, or spend hours in the champions forums to pick up various tips and such. After all, that's how I finally learned what hold magnification was, and why it was different across archtypes. One just doesn't typically pick up things like that casually playing. That kind of information must be sought after, searched out. And, since I no longer have 1000's of hours invested in the game, nor any badges (that I know of), there really isn't any compelling reason to play.
All of my characters that I created were made to make my main a better character. I made the brutes to farm so my main could afford all the goodies and tidbits to make him as good as I could make him. I made the controllers to better understand hold magnification and the chaos that handling pets provides so that I could better understand the archtype as a whole and thus make my blaster a better blaster. Same with the other ATs - learn them so I could play my blaster better. Just a shame I'm more than just a little obtuse and need to prove things to myself rather than just read what someone said and take their word for it. I was just at that point where I figured out I knew a whole lot less than I thought I did. The idea of putting all that time into a character who is coming into existence well after the games creation and missing out on the beginning stages, well, there's really no motivation to put all that time in. The game just isn't fun without the familiarity of CoH. At least, not yet. Maybe in the future, as I figure more things out, I'll like it more.
-
I tried 3 or 4 times to play CO... every time i uninstall it... last time I got past the tutorial and was able to fly around a bit.
I can't stand the aesthetic. Everything looks like cartoony exaggerated crap... and the fact that its a "newer" game than city of heroes and actually looks WORSE (to me at least) says a great deal about how I'm going to react to it. My city of heroes characters look amazing, heroic, imposing, detailed, more like a model and less like a cartoon. Sure we didnt have individual fingers or moving eyes/mouths, but coh characters still look miles away BETTER (imo) than anything you can make in CO.
Here's a comparison of the aesthetic issue:
My namesake character Kyriani from COH VS
(https://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc325/NicMercy/kyritest_zps055b4abe.jpg) VS (https://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc325/NicMercy/kyriCOtest_zps14e11841.jpg)
Now tell me which looks better?
Just that fact alone makes it nearly impossible for me to tolerate looking at the game for extended periods of time. If I dont like the way my character looks my investment in the game is going nowhere. I couldnt even play skyrim till I got mods that made it so I could make a character that didnt like over 40 with dirt all over him if that tells you anything about me.
Gameplay in CO... its different. I wont say better or worse than COH cause it's just so different. I didnt care for the lack of CC in the sense of COH. I also didnt care for the builders/spenders gameplay or the fact that pretty much every character had a similar power allotment/setup.
Basically its just not for me and I end up uninstalling it. I want COH back and I'll keep lurking here until the day someone finally posts a private server I can play on or a solo play client I can run on my own. Until then I'll keep on wishing and hoping and praying that those smarter-than-me-coder-types never give up working on bringing COH back.
-
That's okay. This game is its own thing. It will never seek to be CoH. You'll be disappointed if you come looking for that.
But I know people will try.
-
Well CO and COX I found, to be two different games. Tow of the same genre, but different in so many ways, I'm not sure if either is better or worse or the same. They are just different for me.
There are many things COX got that I liked. The character creation default seemed better but with CO the character default can look weird but once I got the hang of the sliders and proportions thing, I can create way more different looks than I had in COX. Some characters I couldn't figure out how to make in COX I was able to finally make in CO.
I do like freeform a lot, makes COX seems a bit too restricted to me.
COX combat system to me was good and got the job done, that is until I played CO. Faster, not much recharge, not much hit rolls, more enjoyable to me. Way better than *whiff* *whiff* *whiff* Hmmm says here I have 95% chance to hit. Then later, Hey they added streak breaker. *whiff* *streak breaker* *whiff* streak breaker *whiff* streak breaker*. If tha twas an actual comic or movie people would probably be howling for their money back if say the Avengers missed their attacks half the time while trying to hit a stationary box.
COX did have more leveling paths and more things to do. In CO, it's Poe again? jeebus. not sure if I want to make another toon only to fight Poe for the thousandth time.
COX-Hey hey, the devs are working on some good stuff. Man cant wait for updates. Man, look at these dev notes.
CO-*crickets* crickets* Crickets* "Hello? Anyone work here? I heard there were rumors of a dev hanging around? Hello?"
But I think they could improve CO in many ways but probably wont make it any closer to COX or anything. While at first I had quizzacle thoughts of why they didn't jump on the opportunity when COX closed, but then I realized it would have been a waste. Many ex coxers are there only as a pit stop so it would be a total waste to build and cater to them if they are going to be gone anyways in the next years with risk of alienating the people who like CO for what it is and not improving on the good stuff that made CO, well, CO. But one thing that helped when I went ot CO was remember it's champions online not COX 2 or a supposed to be COX. In hindsight it's a good thing too for me. As after playing CO for a while and trying out COX again, fond out the little niggles that I used to just "deal with" ended up more like "how the pancake did I put up with this? Really? AM I playing a game or slot machines?"
-
Many of us who played and loved City of Heroes because it was a superhero RPG, largely shunned Cryptic Entertainment's followup effort "Champions Online."
My cousin's son gifted me with two codes for a free trial to try out Champions Online back when it was in beta testing. My City of Heroes friend and I used the codes to play CO free for a month.
We recreated our favorite CoH characters in CO. I liked the way my main toon, Red Dragon (http://todogut.deviantart.com/art/Red-Dragon-reference-sheet-339466483), looked. I could create a dragon mask (http://s754.photobucket.com/user/Elenlanta/media/Red_Dragon_mask.jpg.html) in CO's costume maker that was better than anything I could come up with in CoH.
My friend and I explored the Millennium City tutorial and the Canadian Wilderness and Desert crisis zones. But, long before the free month was up, we returned to CoH. One night, while playing CoH, we discussed CO: We agreed, it's a good game; but, we didn't feel compelled to keep playing. CoH offered so much more in terms of systems, content, and play experience because it was so much more of a mature and developed game. CO felt like it was just starting out and needed much more development.
We hadn't yet exhausted CoH's voluminous content, so why switch to a new game with growing pains?
Even now, with the death of Paragon City, many of us play CO only begrudgingly it seems.... How does C.O. make you feel? do you like it or no<t>? and can you articulate that?
Of course. If CoH had not been taken away, I would not have returned to CO. I like superheroes better than fantasy or sci-fi, and CO is pretty good. It just needs to be further developed.
Sadly, it appears that Cryptic/Perfect World does not intend to put much development into CO. Even the recent announcement of a Seattle-based office that's devoted to CO doesn't give me much hope for the game's future. CO seems to be a training ground for new hires, while Cryptic's major resources are allocated to Star Trek Online, Neverwinter, and at least one unannounced future project (http://crypticstudios.com/in_development).
Still, CO is fun enough for me. I've played through almost all of its content, but now I skip the vast majority of the standard missions because I consider them dull--lots of "defeat X number of Y villains" and "collect X number of Y objects". I continue to play alerts (http://www.champions-online-wiki.com/wiki/Alerts), adventure packs (http://www.champions-online-wiki.com/wiki/Adventure_Pack), comic series (http://www.champions-online-wiki.com/wiki/Comic_Series), crisis zones (http://www.champions-online-wiki.com/wiki/Crisis_Zones), lairs (http://www.champions-online-wiki.com/wiki/Lairs), and nemesis missions (http://www.champions-online-wiki.com/wiki/Nemesis_System).
CO had a tortured development (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Champions_Online):
- Cryptic had been working on Marvel Universe Online, which was canceled. Reportedly, some of this aborted development was redirected into CO.
- CO was originally to be published by 2K Games, then Atari, and now Perfect World.
- A version for the Xbox 360 hardware platform was in development and was hyped as the first MMO for console gaming; however, Cryptic CEO Jack Emmert stated that the console version was indefinitely delayed by Microsoft's indecision on how to implement MMOs across Xbox Live, and eventually the Xbox 360 version was canceled.
The way I see it, Cryptic had to make CO different from CoH. They succeeded in creating an action-oriented MMO with kinetic combat similar to console gaming. I like the fun, light-hearted tone of the content and art (some would say "cheesy"); but, I'm an old-school fan of cheesy, silver-age comic books. (Modern comics have long since passed by me.)
It's too bad that, due to business pressures, Cryptic had to largely abandon CO and move on to new properties. CO's unfulfilled promise and potential makes me feel appreciation for CoH.
Still, with CoH gone, I'm enjoying CO, and I root for the game's circumstance to improve. Give us the Foundry (http://nw.perfectworld.com/about/foundry)!
But, I hold almost no expectations for CO's future. I'm just happy to play the parts that I like.
Edit: I should add, play for free. CO's free-to-play system is great. Free players get a limited number of characters and limited choices for archetypes; but, otherwise, you pretty much get the whole play experience including end-game. Plus, I can earn Questionite (http://www.champions-online-wiki.com/wiki/Questionite) while having fun playing the game, exchange it for Zen (http://www.champions-online-wiki.com/wiki/Zen), and then buy whatever I want in the Z-store (http://www.champions-online-wiki.com/wiki/Z-Store) including additional character slots, archetypes, costume sets, travel powers, hideouts, and even a freeform character slot.
For me, CO is not developed enough to be worthy of a paid subscription; but, it's good enough to play for free.*
*Probably, most MMO players would not agree that it's good enough--not even for free.
-
I played CO from beta through the first six months after the go-live...and for another three months or so when CoH shuttered. There are things I like a lot about the game: the combat gameplay, the fact that I could simulate a shooter-style reticule in the interface, some entertaining travel powers, etc. However, the game's caricature-like (read: cheesy) approach to the genre was a complete immersion-killer. Sure, it's a silly genre, to be honest...but they took it much too far. It's like the game was trying to be "The Tick Online," only without the clever writing...
There were some other issues, like the very linear progression, relatively limited content, poor teaming mechanics, and so forth...but for me the dealbreaker was always that the heavy cheese factor made the game non-immersive.
-
Incomplete powersets that restricted concepts. In CoH, if I wanted a Fire-based character, I could be anything but a Stalker or Mastermind - Brute, Blaster, Dominator, Controller, Corruptor, Defender, etc. One theme, but many different ways to execute that theme. In CO, if I want a Fire-based character, then I can shoot fire, period. That severely limits my character concepts.
A buggy character creator that would tell me I had access to parts when I didn't (only letting me know when I was done painstakingly making a character and tried to enter the game). It would just dump me back to the character select screen with "Creation failed!"
A focus on stats and gear rather than individual powers. In CoH, I could improve my Invulnerability powers directly by slotting them. In CO, I had to hope that I found a piece of gear that enhanced the right stat that would in turn enhance my Invulnerability.
An extensive number of "collect 10 bear ass" missions. I much preferred CoH's instanced missions. CO has a few instanced missions, but it's much less common.
No interesting low-level content (the Purple Gang arc was it), and no way to easily skip past it (like DFB). Combined with...
All low-level characters feel samey. When you first get to the Ren Center, you have an energy builder, one "real" attack, and maybe a passive, and it's exactly the same for all characters. It's nothing like the difference between, say, a Scrapper, a Mastermind, and a Controller, which are all completely different right out of the gate. Combine that with the lack of different low-level story arcs (and the costume bug), and I simply didn't see the point in making multiple characters, unlike my severe Altitis in CoH.
An important one: I never felt "in control" in CO the way I did in CoH. In CoH, I was much more in control of the flow of the fights, thanks to much more powerful hard and soft mezzes, much more powerful mez protection, and much much more powerful defenses in general. I hated the Block mechanic, forcing me to have split-second timing if I didn't want to go sailing across the room or get frozen in place, flailing on the Z key in a panic. (If any of the "Spiritual successors" want to hook me, this is the aspect of CoH they most have to duplicate)
Bizarre and frustrating difficulty spikes. I'd be going along, spending hours playing through an arc, tearing through Henchmen and Villains like tissue paper, then I'd hit a brick wall in the form of a Master Villain I couldn't beat at all. (One comes to mind immediately - in Resistance, I couldn't beat Warden Arcane at all. I was playing my Silver character, a Glacier, and I just couldn't damage her enough before she just healed herself to full health, over and over and over and over again. I wound up never finishing Resistance)
Finally: No. Native. Mac. Version.
Don't get me wrong; it did do a lot of things I liked (I particularly liked the way it handled respecs compared to CoH), and I've been feeling lately like I might go back and give it another chance, if only because, despite its flaws, every other game I've tried is worse, especially the part about feeling in control.
Edited to add even more reasons I stopped playing CO.
-
I don't want to bash CO, because I know lots of people love it. I'm just not one. Like someone else said, I've found I'm a COH player, not an MMO player. I like CO much better than DCUO or any other super hero MMO out there I've found so far.
I like the fact that in CO your character name is unique to you, not the entire server. I also like the fact that you can jump in with a random team and quickly beat up a big bad guy and automatically disband. Some of the scenery is interesting. I also like how big the zones are, though they are a pain to traverse at times.
What I don't like, at all, is the need to manually block stuff - in fact, I usually just don't bother, much to my detriment. Or, having to hold a key down during combat to charge a power before executing it. Or, having to worry as healer about whether I am targeting a teammate or myself. I haven't found a way to make macros to target teammates, at least not in the quick team up missions, and honestly I don't care enough to research it much more than I have. I also don't like worrying about the stats that much - I'm not a min/maxer or anything, I just want to play a fun character. My primary in COH was an Emp/Elec, for crying out loud.
My tolerance for the players is much worse, too. I was on a quick team one time and the only thing any player said was "HEAL!", and I just lost interest. That sort of thing happened in COH, too, but there was usually discussion before, discussion after, etc. And, most times, you were fine to say back to them that they might want to reconsider trying to solo a mob.
I did play CO one time with someone who was very nice and very helpful, but she was definitely the exception. By and large my experience has been that they're not a particularly friendly group. So much so that I usually just solo, which gets boring.
I checked last night, and it's been 62 days since I played my CO primary, and almost a year since I played my other character. I almost went into the game to play a bit, but I just couldn't do it.
I really miss COH, and I fear that even if it does come back it won't be the same.
-
I really miss COH, and I fear that even if it does come back it won't be the same.
Yeah... this. :( :-[ :-\ :'( :gonk: :'(
-
Bizarre and frustrating difficulty spikes. I'd be going along, spending hours playing through an arc, tearing through Henchmen and Villains like tissue paper, then I'd hit a brick wall in the form of a Master Villain I couldn't beat at all. (One comes to mind immediately - in Resistance, I couldn't beat Warden Arcane at all. I was playing my Silver character, a Glacier, and I just couldn't damage her enough before she just healed herself to full health, over and over and over and over again. I wound up never finishing Resistance)
i][/size]
On the Resistance, when you fought Warden Arcana and she was healing multiple times, was this after she summoned the black ghost thing? I think this is the last portion of the the fight. First it's normal fight, you damage her a bit, she then summons a rift, beat of the minions that spawn to defeat (close) the rift, then the fight starts again, get her about 1/3 of the way down, she summons the black demon thing. And then each time ya get her about 1/3 way down (about 3-5 times I forgot to count yesterday), she heal herself back to full health off this demon. The demon gets smaller and smaller until she use it all up. Then you can beat her senseless.
Unless you ran into a bug. Mechaniste someone bugs out in the same manner.
-
Most of my complaints/problems have been covered above but here are a few that really bother me:
Lockboxes - Most of the rewards/drops that are significant are in Socrates Data Caches. These little jewels contain random gear, mods, costume pieces, drifter salvage. To open you have to have a Cosmic Key of Power. Which do not drop ever, under any circumstance and can only be purchased in the C-Store for Zen.
That's right, you have to spend real world money to open the drops you've won. You can grind through some daily missions and get questionite, which you can then refine and then convert into zen. It's not a great exchange rate and you will probably get more drops than you can afford keys to open.
Also, there is some kind of purple legendary gear that scales to your level so most people hold off on opening them until level 35 up.
Multiple Currencies - I thought COH had too many and CO is actually worse.
First, there are three different resource types: Global, National and Local, think 100 dollar bills, dollar bills and pennies.
Then there are these:
Recognition
Questionite
Drifter Salvage
Acclaim (PVP pay)
Cryptic Points (Essentially Zen)
Nemesis Tokens
Perk Points (obsolete)
Snake Gulch Snakebucks
UNITY Intelligence
UNITY Merits
UNTIL Tokens
Just too many types. Makes it very hard to build up a stack of any particular kind.
I am playing and since this is my first toon to play through in a few years everything is still new. But once I 've done my main, then what? It is better than nothing, but it could so much better. I hope it;s gets some dev love or I will run out of things I want to do.
-
On the Resistance, when you fought Warden Arcana and she was healing multiple times, was this after she summoned the black ghost thing? I think this is the last portion of the the fight. First it's normal fight, you damage her a bit, she then summons a rift, beat of the minions that spawn to defeat (close) the rift, then the fight starts again, get her about 1/3 of the way down, she summons the black demon thing. And then each time ya get her about 1/3 way down (about 3-5 times I forgot to count yesterday), she heal herself back to full health off this demon. The demon gets smaller and smaller until she use it all up. Then you can beat her senseless.
Unless you ran into a bug. Mechaniste someone bugs out in the same manner.
I tried to ask for help, but nobody seemed to know the exact specifics. I kept getting killed anyway. The combination of the Warden and her pet Demon attacking me from both sides wore me down even with Invulnerability (since Invuln just reduces damage, it doesn't negate it. And with no heals and no natural regen, they still wore me down)
... that's another thing I miss. CO characters seem to be built entirely for straight-up offense, with defenses, buffs, heals, and pets all being distant second, and crowd control trailing far behind those. It's very difficult if not impossible to get the sort of layered defenses that you could easily get on a CoH character (especially if you want to stick to a character theme, and not just pick random powers from unrelated frameworks), and tricks like distracting foes with pets or knocking them down or lowering their damage barely work. So when there's an enemy that straight-up offense can't beat, I die.
-
I tried to ask for help, but nobody seemed to know the exact specifics. I kept getting killed anyway. The combination of the Warden and her pet Demon attacking me from both sides wore me down even with Invulnerability (since Invuln just reduces damage, it doesn't negate it. And with no heals and no natural regen, they still wore me down)
... that's another thing I miss. CO characters seem to be built entirely for straight-up offense, with defenses, buffs, heals, and pets all being distant second, and crowd control trailing far behind those. It's very difficult if not impossible to get the sort of layered defenses that you could easily get on a CoH character (especially if you want to stick to a character theme, and not just pick random powers from unrelated frameworks), and tricks like distracting foes with pets or knocking them down or lowering their damage barely work. So when there's an enemy that straight-up offense can't beat, I die.
Playing an AT?
Freeform give you more ability to choose more defense, especially picking a heal. Think Power armor set where invul is located have two that category alone. Sounds like picking up a heal, if you can, would do wonders for you.
-
One of the toughest things for me to get over at first was ... No insps (in CO). Insp combining/spamming in CoH could be highly entertaining.
I had a hard time with the different graphics models in CO at first, too, and now that I've tweaked the settings and played long enough to get used to things I have the opposite reaction. The graphics are very immersive, for me, but I generally judge them in combat. I'm ok with CO babes now too, which is one of those reversals : ) I thought the mobs were *way* too easy at first in CO but that fades with levels if you do challenging things. I'm ok with the lighthearted/cheesy approach they take to .. everything.
I judge the game mainly by: do I feel cool and am I having fun. Check, and check. *shrug* I'm easy, ask Ukase.
I've played The Mind to 40 and Radiant to.. 20ish (no other support toons) and if this is any indication how the rest of the support toons function in CO, I can see why people who prefer playing support toons, like I mainly have in the past but I'm still in my melee/dps phase lately, are disappointed with CO. This is one place where CoH dominates CO so far in my experience. There are a lot of powerful and creative options for playing a support toon in CoH in comparison to what I've experienced so far in CO. Melee & DPS (especially) & Tanking (in my limited experience so far, and I know there are gripes) has been just peachy.
Heya Ukase : ) I miss LB too although I'm not sure how much it misses me.
-
I played for 4 days when the longing for a superhero game got really bad after the shutdown. 4 days is all I could stand. I have 3 basic but all-permeating complaints:
1) Combat. Despite the claim on their web site that CO has "intelligent combat" I found it to be mainly twitchy and something that rewards spamming attacks rather than thoughtful tactics. CoX got me used to doing a lot of thinking in combat, and this actually hurt my chances when I came up against tough bosses. When I got stuck on the one that splits into 3 copies of itself, I eventually looked online for hints, and the most common suggestion was to just spam my best AoE. And this worked! Literally just clicking my AoE attack over and over till the enemy was defeated. That, combined with the "energy builder" attack made combat extremely boring to me. I want something for my brain to do when fighting, not just my mouse finger.
2) It's caricature nature, as Dollhouse said above. It's like they are constantly saying, "We think this is a stupid genre, don't you?" I never felt that way in CoX. Well, except when doing the Twinshot missions...
3) As others have mentioned, lockboxes you have to pay to open.
In summary, the whole game just feels to me like it was designed by a 12-yr-old boy with ADD -- from the combat to the "humour" to the civilian women all looking like pole dancers. I still can't believe this game came out after CoX; it seems like a step backwards in so many ways.
-
I am definitely seeing a pattern developing here, and it is one I agree with. While the graphics ENGINE is superior to that found in CoX, (I do like that you can make actual facial expressions and not just choose from static face graphics) the graphic STYLE negates much of those advancements by choosing kitsch over quality.
Likewise, the comments others have made about the playstyle. So much of the game is geared towards melee and offense. (particularly in the freebie mode) a distant second is healing and blasting powers (note the tutorial is very badly crafted for playing a blaster or a blapper) and crowd control/pets/support is all but nonexistent.
Worse though is that once you choose an archetype, that's that. if you chose archer at the start, you're an archer for the entire run of the character. the powers don't tree or diversify as you level up, they just rotate to more complex variations on the theme. in CoH, if you chose to start as an archer, you could always then later add in crowd control or healing abilities and transform the makeup of your character completely within just ten or twenty levels.
and yes, the monetary system is so completely FUBAR it goes beyond description; I had to go and find a third party guide just to explain the thing to me and I am still not entirely clear on things. and the for-pay boxes are just an insult to every player out there. if I earn something in game, give it to me. or don't give it to me. don't give it to me contingent on a ransom demand.
in short... City of Heroes seems to have been a hero MMORPG which was geared towards role playing and story telling and character creation, in other words, more in the old school. CO seems to be an MMO (no RPG) geared towards grinding and spiff earning and first-to-the-top like Warcraft.
but that's just IMhO and YMMV
-
I. Despise. Archetypes.
One of the nice things about CoH was that its 'archetypes', while they dictated what powers were available to you and when, they weren't the sole deciding factor in what powers are available and when. Your powersets chosen also affected things (and a dark/fire brute was very different from a martial arts/willpower brute), and even then, you have some choice about when to take which powers, and you could even skip powers in your powerset entirely if you wished. And this was a free feature, part of CoH's most basic gameplay.
CO doesn't allow that. Your archetype determines everything - from the powers you have to the powers you can have. It locks in most of your choices for you. Your only customization options when it comes to powers, as a silver player are a couple of binary choices between two powers, and your choice of travel powers. Moreover, half the archetypes are locked behind a pay-wall - compared to CoH that only locked two.
Freeform slots (which basically cost more than subscribing to the game unless purchased with zen earned from Q), and subscribing (so that all of your characters can be freeform), alleviate this, but still - CO is charging me for stuff COH would give me for frickin' free.
They say, "oh, archetypes are a great way to learn the game and archetype characters are viable even at high levels." The first claim is dubious, the second one is a flat-out lie. I took a Glacier archetype and a Grimoire archetype to the level cap, and there was never a point where my Glacier was a more effective tank than a hybrid freeform. My Grimoire character fared a little better due to my ability to jump into different roles as the team needed them, but more often than not I was only appreciated on teams where all the bases were already covered.
No archetype character will ever be central to a team where freeforms are present. After a while playing an archetype, you hit a wall where there's no way to improve. At that point, it's just not worth it to continue.
-
They say, "oh, archetypes are a great way to learn the game and archetype characters are viable even at high levels." The first claim is dubious, the second one is a flat-out lie. I took a Glacier archetype and a Grimoire archetype to the level cap, and there was never a point where my Glacier was a more effective tank than a hybrid freeform. My Grimoire character fared a little better due to my ability to jump into different roles as the team needed them, but more often than not I was only appreciated on teams where all the bases were already covered.
No archetype character will ever be central to a team where freeforms are present. After a while playing an archetype, you hit a wall where there's no way to improve. At that point, it's just not worth it to continue.
Yeah, sadly I think that is the point. If they did that, which I think they should, then they will be howls about free players getting to much for free.
I think the freeform slot is a bit steep, equivalent to 3 month subscribing I think, but if freeform was free, and all powers were free, and AT were on freeform level, then I think again, there will be howls about subscriptions being useless. I think CO problem is not enough features built in with F2P in mind. Naturally there should be some gate between free and someone who pay subscription but that requires features. In CO case, it's too restrictive.
Maybe one day games will find a balance. I think COX game away too much for free. A person that wasn't interested in Incarnate, MM or "what was that other AT that wasn't available for free? Dominator?" or didn't mind buying a slot here and there as they went, there was no point in the subscription. Someone like me, I didn't play doms nor MM much, didn't care about incarnates and if I wanted to save and not put anything into the game I could have and enjoyed it as if I never lost my subscription for free. But I wanted and was able to support $15 a month and more so it was no issue for me. But someone else with same boat and find something better to do with that $15 could have played and equally enjoyed themselves without putting a single penny to support the game's income.
-
Archetypes are for learning the game and farming Q. Anything else is bonus. The way I play the game, anyway.
I dunno what you define as viable at high levels but my Unleashed and even Mind toon are very welcome in Alerts, Gravi's, Blood Moon events, Forum Malvanum (w/Unleashed) events where I got 2 shields and the AF that everyone wanted, Fatal Error's, and anything else outside of a Lair on Elite and any other event that I'm not thinking of right now. I only excluded lairs because they are new to me and I haven't got a chance to try them in a team yet. My Marksman is shaping up nicely too,
Losing your FF toon by converting it to an AT when you stop paying your sub, sucks. No denying. I personally wouldn't consider it. If you stopped paying your sub to CoH, what happened? Yeah that sucked too, I never did it but I know what the penalties were.
CoH is CoH. CO is CO. Luv'em or leave'em. I have room for both. Both have strengths, both have weaknesses. One of CO's biggest strengths atm is you can play it.
-
CoH is CoH. CO is CO. Luv'em or leave'em. I have room for both. Both have strengths, both have weaknesses. One of CO's biggest strengths atm is you can play it.
Truth.
-
CoH is CoH. CO is CO. Luv'em or leave'em. I have room for both. Both have strengths, both have weaknesses. One of CO's biggest strengths atm is you can play it.
Yeah you right. I still wish it weren't so.
-
BTW, I don't hate this game. I'm playing right now. I've tried on off several times. I got a freakin' lifetime sub. I WANT it to be awesome. But it needs some devs to pay some attention to it. I hope that is what's happening. Time will tell I suppose.
It was chilling to hear anther lifetime sub player say "yeah, well, these bugs will get fixed when the game closes and gets on a private server."
-
Yeah, sadly I think that is the point. If they did that, which I think they should, then they will be howls about free players getting to much for free.
I think the freeform slot is a bit steep, equivalent to 3 month subscribing I think, but if freeform was free, and all powers were free, and AT were on freeform level, then I think again, there will be howls about subscriptions being useless. I think CO problem is not enough features built in with F2P in mind. Naturally there should be some gate between free and someone who pay subscription but that requires features. In CO case, it's too restrictive.
Maybe one day games will find a balance. I think COX game away too much for free. A person that wasn't interested in Incarnate, MM or "what was that other AT that wasn't available for free? Dominator?" or didn't mind buying a slot here and there as they went, there was no point in the subscription. Someone like me, I didn't play doms nor MM much, didn't care about incarnates and if I wanted to save and not put anything into the game I could have and enjoyed it as if I never lost my subscription for free. But I wanted and was able to support $15 a month and more so it was no issue for me. But someone else with same boat and find something better to do with that $15 could have played and equally enjoyed themselves without putting a single penny to support the game's income.
I think that CoH managed to strike a pretty decent balance between pay content and free content. Between dual pistols, pet controlling, staff fighting, and so on, there were about a half dozen or so powers which were either subscript or purchase-to-unlock options. Likewise, using any of the games advanced systems like Invention, Auction, etc required either a monthly subscript or a pay as you go unlock
and then there were also the costume options that were subscript or unlock. And of course, the two-slot limit. The fact that the veteran rewards system stayed intact also helped to encourage paying customers, since some things like costume slots, long coat pieces, and certain spiff powers, buffs, and vanity pets were tied to pay playing time worked in that favour to. And the fact that after Freedom, chat and tells and trades required a minimum cash purchase sure "encouraged" buying things to.
Perhaps the only thing that might have improved that free-to-pay balance would have been to tighten up the registration system, since it was easy enough to get multiple free accounts and log into them right from the COH login screen.
and of course the fact that CoH was turning a profit speaks for itself. but that's another argument.
-
I had one AT that I bought when I picked the game up again after the COH closure. I had never gotten beyond level 6 before, so I didn't know anything about the freeform stuff.
I HATED the AT.
If I only had that option I wouldn't enjoy the game as much as I do.
That being said, there are some nice things about CO under the freeform stuff.
I don't know about the rest of you, but more than once I created a character where I loved the character but hated the powerset ... some of them I were loathe to start over again because I had badges that I couldn't replace. With CO, you take a freefrom character and completely change its powerset if you don't care for the first one you picked. That's pretty handy IMO.
-
Yeah, sadly I think that is the point. If they did that, which I think they should, then they will be howls about free players getting to much for free.
My problem is, most of the time an archetype character, especially a silver archetype character, cannot succeed or be valuable for the role they were intended to perform, especially at high levels.
For instance, my Glacier AT is supposedly a tank. I say supposedly because:
- I could never keep aggro, especially if freeforms or paid ATs are present, even with all available aggro perks
- I did not have the self-healing options a freeform tank would possess, and thus was reliant upon others for heals - heals that more often or not, were not forthcoming
- The previous two points meant that most of the time people would drop groups with me if I was the only available tank
Now, where's this leave me? Playing ranged DPS in a tank role, which runs against the whole reason why I took the AT in the first place.
If you're going to give me the option to play a role, then give me the tools I need to play it well enough to be desired for it. If I can't, then I'm going to get frustrated with your game and abandon it, not spend money. I spend money on games I like, not games that piss me off and then say, "well it gets easier if you pay us."
-
Playing an AT?
Freeform give you more ability to choose more defense, especially picking a heal. Think Power armor set where invul is located have two that category alone. Sounds like picking up a heal, if you can, would do wonders for you.
Yes, I know. I've made several freeform characters since then, but I haven't had any urge to do Resistance on any of them, partially because it's so long, and partially becuase I hated the mechanics of much of it. I especially hated that awful stealth section where you had to disguise yourself as an inmate and lose all your powers, and the "must protect a NPC for five full minutes from approximately 1000 respawning enemies all attacking simultaneously from every direction" part, each of which took me dozens of tries (I really grew to hate watching my character surrender to guards who he could have easily beaten over and over) and both of which I don't ever want to redo. So you can add those to the "bizarre difficulty spikes" section.
1) Combat. Despite the claim on their web site that CO has "intelligent combat" I found it to be mainly twitchy and something that rewards spamming attacks rather than thoughtful tactics. CoX got me used to doing a lot of thinking in combat, and this actually hurt my chances when I came up against tough bosses. When I got stuck on the one that splits into 3 copies of itself, I eventually looked online for hints, and the most common suggestion was to just spam my best AoE. And this worked! Literally just clicking my AoE attack over and over till the enemy was defeated. That, combined with the "energy builder" attack made combat extremely boring to me. I want something for my brain to do when fighting, not just my mouse finger.
I agree with what this, too. CoH made every playstyle viable - ranged damage, melee damage, taking, support, crowd control, whatever. They were all equally effective and equally powerful. I loved setting up tricky builds that allowed me to target enemies from multiple sides to keep them from being able to attack effectively. This how I mainly played my Masterminds and my Dominators (particularly my Earth/Ice/Leviathan, with her many ground-targeted effects, and her various pets - Golem, Corolax, even the Water Spout), and this strategy worked beautifully.
In contrast, the only playstyle I found viable in CO is "spam most powerful attack until opponent dies". There are no buffs or debuffs that last more than ten seconds, heals are the only viable form of "support" (and even those are difficult to target), pets are woefully underpowered, defensive options are very limited compared to offensive options, and crowd control might as well be non-existent.
You can see this influence just by looking at how slotted passives are weighted: There are five defensive passives, six support passives, and fourteen offensive passives. Similarly, there is one and only one defensive/support toggle (I call it both, because it's essentially a weaker version of Dispersion Bubble from CoH) and eight offensive toggles.
-
Really guys, what.. It all boils down to taste. Some elements of CoH & CO are the same but they are not the same games and some players are bound to not like both, much less like both equally.
I remember time after time people would log into CoH and trash it because they liked some other game they play(ed) more and ohhh what a reaction they would get. LB would rip you a new one if you came in with that attitude.
Being all into incarnate and min/maxing my guys and just plain sucking the marrow out of the game, I'd never consider giving up my sub in CoH. Not having a sub probably wasn't so bad if, just for example, you were a new player and bought things like the invention license for $1 a month when the time came for it to be handy. You can play CO without a sub and have fun too but you won't get the marrow.
CoH's market was genius as was that flood of new content that started with Feedom, I had a sub and still spent money! Some people spent a *lot*,
If you go into CO and try to make it CoH I think you may never be happy. If you're not happy during playtime, what's the point. CO, like every single thing in life is not perfect but I like it. Try it out and see what it does for you is my advice. If you like it and stick with it then I'd suggest, over time, to spend time tweaking the interface, hud, and graphics, too. It pays.
-
Yeah you right. I still wish it weren't so.
Me too! I lub CoH. It'll be back and I'll play it when it does if by then I haven't got ran over by a truck or whatever like this.
-
Really guys, what.. It all boils down to taste. Some elements of CoH & CO are the same but they are not the same games and some players are bound to not like both, much less like both equally.
I remember time after time people would log into CoH and trash it because they liked some other game they play(ed) more and ohhh what a reaction they would get. LB would rip you a new one if you came in with that attitude.
Being all into incarnate and min/maxing my guys and just plain sucking the marrow out of the game, I'd never consider giving up my sub in CoH. Not having a sub probably wasn't so bad if, just for example, you were a new player and bought things like the invention license for $1 a month when the time came for it to be handy. You can play CO without a sub and have fun too but you won't get the marrow.
CoH's market was genius as was that flood of new content that started with Feedom, I had a sub and still spent money! Some people spent a *lot*,
If you go into CO and try to make it CoH I think you may never be happy. If you're not happy during playtime, what's the point. CO, like every single thing in life is not perfect but I like it. Try it out and see what it does for you is my advice. If you like it and stick with it then I'd suggest, over time, to spend time tweaking the interface, hud, and graphics, too. It pays.
I think there's two parts of it right there. Part of it is, yes, I want a game more closely resembling City of Heroes, and I admit that.
But that's story telling. Champions, for all its capes and its flight, doesn't FEEL super. I can't put my finger on it, but for some reason, when I run around Millennium City, it feels less like I am saving the city than I am playing out a social thriller about gang wars. Like others have said "god, it's Poe again?!" There's something unquantifiable in the writing, because for both games, you're essentially running the same "go kill x number of gang thugs and then do instanced door mission y" and yet at the end of the day, the tone is totally different (at least to me).
And don't get me started on the number of "homage" toons I see every time I log in. that just ticks me off, regardless of the platform, but champions seems rampant with them. usually the first thing I see when I log in is a colossus or a hulk or a wolverine. That says to me that Cryptic and Perfect World are not policing their servers about copyright the way that Paragon did, and suggests that their over-all level of involvement is low.
and then there's the pricing thing. For all the world, Champions feels to me like a cell phone game. It feels like it actively punishes me for not paying for it the way that a Zynga game does, making it difficult to advance or unlock content or play styles without dropping cold hard cash. Everyone keeps talking about free form builds, but all I get are the half-dozen or so locked archetypes. I feel like it should be popping up every five minutes and prompting me to "invite your friends on facebook" or flashing a banner advertisement at me. I never got that experience out of Heroes. It was more "oh, you liked this fully realized character? lend us some cash and you can have even more!"
Maybe my unease is not so much that Champions is not City of Heroes, so much as that it doesn't meet my standards for story telling or customer interaction. Like a few others have sad, there's just spots where it feels half-baked and the developers should really have another go at it. Like the six odd currencies or the repetitive story elements.
-
And don't get me started on the number of "homage" toons I see every time I log in. that just ticks me off, regardless of the platform, but champions seems rampant with them. usually the first thing I see when I log in is a colossus or a hulk or a wolverine. That says to me that Cryptic and Perfect World are not policing their servers about copyright the way that Paragon did, and suggests that their over-all level of involvement is low.
Well at one point, there was rampant copyright copies in COX too. They eventually cracked down on them but before then, there were plenty of wolverines copies. At one point in time I seen more wolverine copies more than I seen claw/regen scrapper that looked like it came from the mind of the player.
Then even after the crack down, there still were some, at least for a while before they got genericed.
In CO, they don't seem to enforce much of anything in game. People talk crazy that even in WoW they would have got banned for life. And they definitely don't police up the copycats. You would think, Cryptic, would have learned from the first lawsuit. Now they seem to be asking for it because by not enforcing it, they look like they are actually encouraging it and this time Marvel wouldn't need any tricks. They could log into any MC and within 5-10 mins see a problem that is not being addressed.
But what other people build have no bearing on how much or less or my mood of enjoying the game. If that was the case I wouldn't have made it beyond the third month after starting COX due to the abundance of wolverine clones.
Also on another note, although there have been many suggestions from ex-coxers there of "they should do this and that like COX", and some are good ideas but then again why would they go through the trouble of imitating COX only to have those same COXErs that joined and suggested the ideas to jump ship as soon as COX emulator or cox successor comes out while at the same time pissing off their core players, which many been playing CO rather than COX, or in some cases both, even while COX was alive, a fact that many seem to forget? Right now, the influx of players from COX overall are unsteady and unstable at best to actually even consider implementing any of their ideas with the high risk of by the time they get to it, they are on their way out anyways.
-
In CO, they don't seem to enforce much of anything in game. People talk crazy that even in WoW they would have got banned for life. And they definitely don't police up the copycats. You would think, Cryptic, would have learned from the first lawsuit. Now they seem to be asking for it because by not enforcing it, they look like they are actually encouraging it and this time Marvel wouldn't need any tricks. They could log into any MC and within 5-10 mins see a problem that is not being addressed.
And that's what bothers me a lot. It's more of that cellphone mentality, "here's this thing I built, give me money." It speaks a lot to not just being hands off, but actively disinterested in the day-to-day running of the game and community. No one seems to be minding the store except to cash the checks and occasionally throws the players a bone with new content. As you say, not only does it turn people like me off, but it actively invites both bad player elements and legal challenges.
-
In CO, they don't seem to enforce much of anything in game. People talk crazy that even in WoW they would have got banned for life. And they definitely don't police up the copycats. You would think, Cryptic, would have learned from the first lawsuit. Now they seem to be asking for it because by not enforcing it, they look like they are actually encouraging it and this time Marvel wouldn't need any tricks. They could log into any MC and within 5-10 mins see a problem that is not being addressed.
This would be an example of something about the game that is refreshing to me and is another man's poison.
At first I was shocked people were allowed to speak their minds uncensored but I'm into it now. As with other things I have adjusted to and learned to appreciate about the game.
I would not play a game with things in it that bother me a lot, btw. Gametime is funtime. This is another difference between me and some others and I'm not just pointing you out Eoraptor.
It's all about taste. What makes your fun-meter go 'yay'. I'm rooting for all of ya that are still looking for this. For serious.
Haven't got any plans to leave CO anytime soon but as soon as I get more bandwidth to play around with I'm gonna check out STO and maybe Secret World, and NWO for sure due to history purposes, and see how they do on the meter. And I'll be one of the first to log back into CoH when it's back. I'd check out GuildWars II but the company making money off of it is crap, to me, so it doesn't matter what the game is like, to me.
CoH isn't the first MMO I've lost. The first one I lost, I lived in, me and the mrs,, both. I mean we lived there. Almost all our friends were there, we sometimes spent holidays with them there, my wife wanted to have a second honeymoon in a particular place that meant something to us online.. some of our best times were there and we'd travelled from coast to coast and to Austria where we lived for awhile and back and did a lot of the fun stuff in-between that would make this post a monolithic wall of text so we had at least a clue how to have fun and we still chose to live in our mmo.
So I get what it's like to lose something like this, like what we experienced. It's just not my first time at the rodeo is all. I just mention this because I think I came off as insensitive sometimes to all The Moaning(TM) that was in LB and those 'other channels', in COH, and I didn't mean to then, or now.
J00 must find the fun in life and grab it by the waa-waa while you have the power to. If CO isn't fun, j00 must search on grasshoppah. Or something like this. Although logic often fails me I'm thinking Titan didn't give CO it's own lil corner lot just so people could express how disappointed they are with the game and if that is true - then most of us posting here regularly are probly having fun playing regularly too so there must be some redeeming value to the game, just not to all, obviously.
I'm rooting for ya guys that need your funtime back and am sorry you're not finding it in CO. Funtime is a super precious thing that I can't wish enough on anyone here.
-
This would be an example of something about the game that is refreshing to me and is another man's poison.
At first I was shocked people were allowed to speak their minds uncensored but I'm into it now. As with other things I have adjusted to and learned to appreciate about the game.
I would not play a game with things in it that bother me a lot, btw. Gametime is funtime. This is another difference between me and some others and I'm not just pointing you out Eoraptor.
It's all about taste. What makes your fun-meter go 'yay'. I'm rooting for all of ya that are still looking for this. For serious.
Haven't got any plans to leave CO anytime soon but as soon as I get more bandwidth to play around with I'm gonna check out STO and maybe Secret World, and NWO for sure due to history purposes, and see how they do on the meter. And I'll be one of the first to log back into CoH when it's back. I'd check out GuildWars II but the company making money off of it is crap, to me, so it doesn't matter what the game is like, to me.
CoH isn't the first MMO I've lost. The first one I lost, I lived in, me and the mrs,, both. I mean we lived there. Almost all our friends were there, we sometimes spent holidays with them there, my wife wanted to have a second honeymoon in a particular place that meant something to us online.. some of our best times were there and we'd travelled from coast to coast and to Austria where we lived for awhile and back and did a lot of the fun stuff in-between that would make this post a monolithic wall of text so we had at least a clue how to have fun and we still chose to live in our mmo.
So I get what it's like to lose something like this, like what we experienced. It's just not my first time at the rodeo is all. I just mention this because I think I came off as insensitive sometimes to all The Moaning(TM) that was in LB and those 'other channels', in COH, and I didn't mean to then, or now.
J00 must find the fun in life and grab it by the waa-waa while you have the power to. If CO isn't fun, j00 must search on grasshoppah. Or something like this. Although logic often fails me I'm thinking Titan didn't give CO it's own lil corner lot just so people could express how disappointed they are with the game and if that is true - then most of us posting here regularly are probly having fun playing regularly too so there must be some redeeming value to the game, just not to all, obviously.
I'm rooting for ya guys that need your funtime back and am sorry you're not finding it in CO. Funtime is a super precious thing that I can't wish enough on anyone here.
Yep. I don't mind the uncensored and the ability to speak on minds, but find it odd to write rules against certain behaviors but don't even bother to enforce those rules. It sets many people up for failure. They look at the rules and think, "ok that is law of the land." Enter the game, get called a "wetback" or the likes many times and go to report this then...nothing. Although in the rules it says racial slurs are not allowed in fact I think in CO rules it actually says will not be tolerated.
Now on the other hand if it, simply said "We don't have man power to moderate chat, ya on your own." then more than likely the person entering and get called "wetback" probably would expect it at some point and know that it's not against the rules and probably fire back with a few "well better being a subhuman that was better off in slavery" remarks. And all is well if that is what the community want to do.
It's not what is said by ignorant people that probably are a waste of oxygen and should be sterilized before they can have children, that is so bothersome. It's the fact they write rules under the guise that it's not allowed, but allow it. They lose great credibility and probably why saying ya going to report someone even if they threaten to come to your house and gut your family and your two babies like a fish in front of you since they have your address they got off Facebook, is probably laughed at in that game. Even though in most games with the same written rules, that is grounds for a ban for a long time if not forever even in WoW, where it's supposedly troll central. Petty jabs and usually online stuff. In CO, people take it further because they know nothing will happen. Hell, even the general population just kind of shrug. What can they do?
That is why I think they might as well just throw their rule book out the window. It is about as toothless as a 103 year old trying to gnaw through tank armor.
-
That non-enforcement of the rules was a huge reason I left Deviant Art a few years ago to. I don't care if there's rules or not rules on a place; but if someone tells me there's rules, and then doesn't enforce them, or only enforces them when it's convenient or important for them, it makes me want to find the physical server racks and drop a grenade in them.
but I suppose I should clarify... this thread was originally over on the City of Heroes section of Titan, not the CO section, and was intended to be read by the CoH folks, so please don't read this and think I/we are complaining about Champions. I in particular am trying to figure out what things it is about the game that turn me off where CoH turned me on. and the things others have said here go a long way to that. :)
-
I can only say that I hope you find a way to make the powers and stats work for you, and that as time goes by, you find some reason that makes Millennium City worth saving.
-
Had to come back because I was playing just now and it dawned on me what's been nagging me about Kyriani's post. I've kinda gotten to where I maybe even prefer the female (and probably male as far as that goes) models in CO over CoH, now, but.. when you see that post, the CO girl really does look sad in comparison to the one in CoH.
I think one reason why is that bleak background.. I never was impressed by that background and it doesn't do anything for that toon. That costume kinda doesn't do it for me either.
I know it's a kinda silly thing to bring up but the very not serious point is, if you wanted to I think you could do better on the CO girl. Maybe you need more costume unlocks. I've got access to tons more pieces now than when I started and it does make a difference.
Just trying to be encouraging on the subject in case you were looking for such a thing, Kyri..
And then I read this whole wetback thing. W...t...h.. Man, I never had anything like that in mind. That's not being uncensored that's being an ass. I never experienced any of this in CO yet. Actually, I was thinking how relatively well most people monitor themselves given that they pretty much don't have to.
but I suppose I should clarify... this thread was originally over on the City of Heroes section of Titan, not the CO section, and was intended to be read by the CoH folks, so please don't read this and think I/we are complaining about Champions. I in particular am trying to figure out what things it is about the game that turn me off where CoH turned me on. and the things others have said here go a long way to that. :)
This is a good clarification! It seemed really weird to me that this whole topic was flowing here like it was but now it makes perfect sense. Here's to you finding out what turns you on, soon, and hopefully doing it, often! : D
-
I tried to ask for help, but nobody seemed to know the exact specifics. I kept getting killed anyway. The combination of the Warden and her pet Demon attacking me from both sides wore me down even with Invulnerability (since Invuln just reduces damage, it doesn't negate it. And with no heals and no natural regen, they still wore me down)
... that's another thing I miss. CO characters seem to be built entirely for straight-up offense, with defenses, buffs, heals, and pets all being distant second, and crowd control trailing far behind those. It's very difficult if not impossible to get the sort of layered defenses that you could easily get on a CoH character (especially if you want to stick to a character theme, and not just pick random powers from unrelated frameworks), and tricks like distracting foes with pets or knocking them down or lowering their damage barely work. So when there's an enemy that straight-up offense can't beat, I die.
Actually freeformers can get a very good mix of every single thing in there. The only thing you wouldn't be able to max is crowd control which is horribly weak in CO anyways. All of my characters can inflict very solid damage, tank, and heal themselves at the same time to some extent or another. I just hate the lack of real support powers in CO, there are no real force multipliers that help the team as a whole. And I live in endless fear of the nerf bat ruining the game and degrading it further to a holy trinity of "you must have a healer and tank and a bunch of damage dealers".
-
Well at one point, there was rampant copyright copies in COX too. They eventually cracked down on them but before then, there were plenty of wolverines copies. At one point in time I seen more wolverine copies more than I seen claw/regen scrapper that looked like it came from the mind of the player.
Then even after the crack down, there still were some, at least for a while before they got genericed.
In CO, they don't seem to enforce much of anything in game. People talk crazy that even in WoW they would have got banned for life. And they definitely don't police up the copycats. You would think, Cryptic, would have learned from the first lawsuit. Now they seem to be asking for it because by not enforcing it, they look like they are actually encouraging it and this time Marvel wouldn't need any tricks. They could log into any MC and within 5-10 mins see a problem that is not being addressed.
But what other people build have no bearing on how much or less or my mood of enjoying the game. If that was the case I wouldn't have made it beyond the third month after starting COX due to the abundance of wolverine clones.
Also on another note, although there have been many suggestions from ex-coxers there of "they should do this and that like COX", and some are good ideas but then again why would they go through the trouble of imitating COX only to have those same COXErs that joined and suggested the ideas to jump ship as soon as COX emulator or cox successor comes out while at the same time pissing off their core players, which many been playing CO rather than COX, or in some cases both, even while COX was alive, a fact that many seem to forget? Right now, the influx of players from COX overall are unsteady and unstable at best to actually even consider implementing any of their ideas with the high risk of by the time they get to it, they are on their way out anyways.
The playerbase mentality is the exact problem I have with CO in may ways. Millennium city chat is alot like barrens chat from what i'd heard, you have alot of trolls with a very negative mentality that only drive more players away. It's been like that long before CoX's shut down, and I blame that more then anything for the smaller player base CO had to suffer from, though content issues certainly do alot of damage, combined with the player base being filled with trolls in the wrong places with little enforcement only seems to double on top of each other as problems.
Edit; The "from what I heard" refers to the comments people make about WoW's barrens chat.
-
I have a simple way you can judge at least a portion of the CO playerbase mentality without ever logging in. Check out my, Jag's, DW's, Brou's, Todogut's, and others here that aren't on the tip of my brain atm but will probly offer up their name on request, posts. I think we're all regular players. Sorry for any speeling errorz on names..
-
I try to avoid unmoderated channels in most games because: A) people feel liberated in bad way to say what they want (gay,fag,queer,homo, etc.) B) many people seem to degenerate into 14 year olds.
BUT the COX channel is just fine. Join that channel you'll find help if you need it and people just generally being cool.
Someone posted about how bad it is to go from paid to FTP. I can accept that. But when you do pay and still have to pay more to unlock your drops? That really seems like double dipping to me.
-
I try to avoid unmoderated channels in most games because: A) people feel liberated in bad way to say what they want (gay,fag,queer,homo, etc.) B) many people seem to degenerate into 14 year olds.
BUT the COX channel is just fine. Join that channel you'll find help if you need it and people just generally being cool.
Someone posted about how bad it is to go from paid to FTP. I can accept that. But when you do pay and still have to pay more to unlock your drops? That really seems like double dipping to me.
oh yeah overall COX and CORP are good channels. COX been improving a lot lately. Less dark cloud bringers and less edgy people lately. It still has it's "off" days, but that's any channel. COX has transformed into a solid channel.
At first had to avoid COX channel mostly, too much grieving, too much "CO aint like COX and so it sucks" and other mood killers. But I figured it will wan off as time goes on and it did, faster than I thought. I can now personally recommend it as a good place to go and enjoy one self. Although lately been spending more time on CORP. It's like seasons. Some weeks I spend more time on COX and merely monitor CORP other weeks I'm on CORP and monitoring COX.
-
I played CO a lot when it first released (670 odd hours according to Steam) I have several max level alts based on my COH characters. I've redownloaded the game a few times since it has been f2p but every time I get reminded why I dislike the f2p model when I look at all of the freeform characters I can't use.
I would be happy to play the game if I had access to my original characters in their original forms (even SOE realized that their locking people out of characters when converting to F2P was a really bad idea), and if I were playing the game I would be happy to spend money on cosmetics, vehicles, hideouts etc. I am not happy to have to spend ridiculous amounts of money (or be forced into subbing) just to actually be able to play my characters.
-
One of the members of my Friday night group had let his sub lapse prior to Black Friday, so he was pretty limited when first logging back in. He was fortunate to have a lot of Paragon Points that had accrued during the time his sub was active, so he could unlock some toons, but his main was initially locked because it was a MM. I did make a free account of my own to try things "on the other side." I don't think that CoH made as much of its content available to free players, percentage-wise, as CO does, but, just due to sheer volume after 8+ years, that still amounted to more than a free player got out of most games.
As for chat, I haven't noticed the level of vulgarity that is being alluded to, here, but I don't spend much time in the game. I also don't think I've spent any time, beyond transit, in MC since the emote crash problem, though that's not by design. I'm focusing on a character that is beyond the content level. What I found unsettling in Warcraft was the zone chat in the Hinterlands. I don't know why, there, but the tone was much more off-putting. There was vulgarity, though not anything I'd call a slur. When I have paid attention to zone chat in CO, recently, I haven't seen anything that left me wondering why a mod wasn't stepping in, where the chat in the Hinterlands of WoW seemed like it needed a mod presence.
I have only a limited cross-section to go by, but it may also be a question of timing. I have a family emergency in progress, but I will see if I can get on this evening and watch chat in MC for a while. Maybe if more players start filing reports, the alleged mods will pay more attention.
-
Heartaches of being locked out of freeform characters due to the switch to F2P
This is another thing that generally ticks me off about CO, and discourages me from considering subscribing.
Sure, I could sub, convert my characters to freeforms, obtain extra default costume pieces, and enjoy all the perks that go with it. Thing is, I usually don't play MMOs, and particularly F2P MMOs, consistently for years on end (CoH was, and has been, the only exception). I typically play for two to four months, then I stop for a while, sometimes a couple of weeks, sometimes a month or so, and then if I really liked the game, I come back for another third of a year.
Sometimes, it takes me a two or three weeks to decide whether or not that an MMO I've just gotten into (or returned to), is something I really want to invest time in. Under CO's model, that entire time would be spent locked out of characters I developed as a subscriber. Characters that, in my opinion, I've already paid for the right to use as they are. I wouldn't mind being locked out of their costume options if I went to change their costumes, or maybe being forced to go back to an archetype if I wanted to respec them, but I should at least be able to play them as they are.
To me, that's a pretty hefty discouragement. It's a big reason why I don't sub in the first place - if I ever let that sub lapse, all my characters I developed and worked on during my subscription are kaput unless I'm willing to accept a F2P archetype for them. And then on top of that, only half the archetypes in the game are available to a basic Silver account - the rest have to be purchased with Zen, so even if there is an archetype that fits my character design fairly well, I've only got a 50/50 chance of having access to it. I also have to remake their costume and remove costume parts that are free under a Gold account, but must be purchased with Zen or unlocked ingame if you're Silver.
When you're subscribing, you're essentially getting your characters on a lease. If you ever let that sub expire, they send the digital equivalent of a repo man after your stuff, and give you a list of demands you must meet if you ever want to play them again. That's offputting, to say the least.
-
This is another thing that generally ticks me off about CO, and discourages me from considering subscribing.
Sure, I could sub, convert my characters to freeforms, obtain extra default costume pieces, and enjoy all the perks that go with it. Thing is, I usually don't play MMOs, and particularly F2P MMOs, consistently for years on end (CoH was, and has been, the only exception). I typically play for two to four months, then I stop for a while, sometimes a couple of weeks, sometimes a month or so, and then if I really liked the game, I come back for another third of a year.
Sometimes, it takes me a two or three weeks to decide whether or not that an MMO I've just gotten into (or returned to), is something I really want to invest time in. Under CO's model, that entire time would be spent locked out of characters I developed as a subscriber. Characters that, in my opinion, I've already paid for the right to use as they are. I wouldn't mind being locked out of their costume options if I went to change their costumes, or maybe being forced to go back to an archetype if I wanted to respec them, but I should at least be able to play them as they are.
To me, that's a pretty hefty discouragement. It's a big reason why I don't sub in the first place - if I ever let that sub lapse, all my characters I developed and worked on during my subscription are kaput unless I'm willing to accept a F2P archetype for them. And then on top of that, only half the archetypes in the game are available to a basic Silver account - the rest have to be purchased with Zen, so even if there is an archetype that fits my character design fairly well, I've only got a 50/50 chance of having access to it. I also have to remake their costume and remove costume parts that are free under a Gold account, but must be purchased with Zen or unlocked ingame if you're Silver.
When you're subscribing, you're essentially getting your characters on a lease. If you ever let that sub expire, they send the digital equivalent of a repo man after your stuff, and give you a list of demands you must meet if you ever want to play them again. That's offputting, to say the least.
Hmmm If I reacall even in COX, if that sub lapse, you get locked out most of the characters, besides two and assuming one isn't a MM or Dominator.
But in CO it could work either way. IN one scenario is could work where every character is locked out due to be freeform. Or it could work out at least all three is available if they were AT that is available to free accounts.
I can see the good and bad in that method. It sucks if one let their sub expire for situations they cant control. But humans being humans would have found a way to play the system if they could if all you had to do was pay a sub once and anything you make or had was still available if you let the sub ended. Meaning that one person could pay for one month, $15, make a bunch of stuff, and never pay again and have all the benefits of a sub still or rather LTS without paying anything more.
In MMO, everything is a lease. Nothing is owned besides maybe the disk and a few things that are on them. How much a person choose to put into that lease is up to them. Like Kickstarter and other "investments" it's risky and a chance to loose everything.
Me personally, free to play was a dumb idea, but I understand from a business standpoint. It seems like people lack the ability to just be satisfied with a test run for free. They want everything for free and want everything without paying. AKA, they cannot be satisfied even though they don't put in a single dime. It should be either pay sub or get maybe one or two ATs to test run to a certain level then either pay or stop. A Demo. People seem to demand a lot sometimes for something they don't even pay anything for. If they want the perks, then they should pay. If they don't want to pay the sub then they are are and should be at the mercy of the generosity of the game makers and be willing to pay the premium for stuff that could get with a simple sub. on the market. It's getting to a point where some are getting so full of it and think they should get the world for free that soon they will demanding to be paid by the game publisher to play the game at all.
-
... soon they will demanding to be paid by the game publisher to play the game at all.
In a sense, CO has paid me to play the game for free. While having fun playing the game, I've accumulated the Questionite (http://www.champions-online-wiki.com/wiki/Questionite) in-game currency and exchanged it on the Questionite Exchange (http://www.champions-online-wiki.com/wiki/Questionite_Exchange) for Zen (http://www.champions-online-wiki.com/wiki/Zen)--Perfect World's game store (http://www.champions-online-wiki.com/wiki/Z-Store) currency, which you can buy with real-world money. I've used Zen to buy the following items in the Z-Store without paying any real-world money:
8 character slots @ 1,400 Zen per 2 character slots = 5,600 Zen
3 archetypes @ 1,150 Zen each = 3,450 Zen
3 costume sets @ 475 Zen each = 1,425 Zen
1 travel power @ 525 Zen
Total = 11,000 Zen
The CO Wiki shows that 100 Zen can be bought for $1 (http://www.champions-online-wiki.com/wiki/File:ZenStep3.png). (I don't know if this rate is current.) So, CO has "paid" me with $110 worth of in-game items.
-
In a sense, CO has paid me to play the game for free. While having fun playing the game, I've accumulated the Questionite (http://www.champions-online-wiki.com/wiki/Questionite) in-game currency and exchanged it on the Questionite Exchange (http://www.champions-online-wiki.com/wiki/Questionite_Exchange) for Zen (http://www.champions-online-wiki.com/wiki/Zen)--Perfect World's game store (http://www.champions-online-wiki.com/wiki/Z-Store) currency, which you can buy with real-world money. I've used Zen to buy the following items in the Z-Store without paying any real-world money:
8 character slots @ 1,400 Zen per 2 character slots = 5,600 Zen
3 archetypes @ 1,150 Zen each = 3,450 Zen
3 costume sets @ 475 Zen each = 1,425 Zen
1 travel power @ 525 Zen
Total = 11,000 Zen
The CO Wiki shows that 100 Zen can be bought for $1 (http://www.champions-online-wiki.com/wiki/File:ZenStep3.png). (I don't know if this rate is current.) So, CO has "paid" me with $110 worth of in-game items.
That zen to dollar rate is about right. I think some that are $20 or $30 and up package come with extra zen but generally $100 zen=$1.
How long did it take you to do that? Sounds like if you do it in a week, that's $110 a week pay, a part time job pay. :D
-
The varying rate of exchange on the Questionite Exchange is disadvantageous, currently around 209 Questionite per 1 Zen--not what I would term a good pay rate for a part-time job.
The Questionite that I've accumulated and exchanged for Zen as noted in my previous post was over a long period of time and casual play. Again, not an efficient means of earning in-game items; but, still, a nice bonus that accrues while having fun playing the game.
-
The varying rate of exchange on the Questionite Exchange is disadvantageous, currently around 209 Questionite per 1 Zen--not what I would term a good pay rate for a part-time job.
The Questionite that I've accumulated and exchanged for Zen as noted in my previous post was over a long period of time and casual play. Again, not an efficient means of earning in-game items; but, still, a nice bonus that accrues while having fun playing the game.
yup.
-
I played both CoX and Champions for years, and while I like the greater abundance of options and customizations in CO, and loved the fact that the combat requires a bit more skill, I still think CoX was a better game. All my good memories are from CoX.
Be that as it may, I did give Champions a dedicated try after NCSoft pulled the plug, hoping to build something new and hopefully good. Unfortunately, I bought a lifetime account from a person who was done with the game, and got what I thought was a 'deal'. He waited a month before he called PWE and reported his account stolen. Of course, I lost everything, including all I had transferred to that account from my old characters who I'd also re-rolled. I think you can imagine the disappointment. Apparently, this had happened a few times with this guy, and its likely that other people are doing it too - be warned.
At any rate, while I would really like to play a superhero game, this experience really turned me off of CO, and I don't really feel that eager to go back and start over. This happened right as many CoX folks were 7ust starting coming over, and I had not gotten involved in a serious group yet, so.. why go back?
~Hellgeist
Illusion/FF Controller, on Virtue
-
I played both CoX and Champions for years, and while I like the greater abundance of options and customizations in CO, and loved the fact that the combat requires a bit more skill, I still think CoX was a better game. All my good memories are from CoX.
Be that as it may, I did give Champions a dedicated try after NCSoft pulled the plug, hoping to build something new and hopefully good. Unfortunately, I bought a lifetime account from a person who was done with the game, and got what I thought was a 'deal'. He waited a month before he called PWE and reported his account stolen. Of course, I lost everything, including all I had transferred to that account from my old characters who I'd also re-rolled. I think you can imagine the disappointment. Apparently, this had happened a few times with this guy, and its likely that other people are doing it too - be warned.
At any rate, while I would really like to play a superhero game, this experience really turned me off of CO, and I don't really feel that eager to go back and start over. This happened right as many CoX folks were 7ust starting coming over, and I had not gotten involved in a serious group yet, so.. why go back?
~Hellgeist
Illusion/FF Controller, on Virtue
Yeah I would recommend to never buy an account from a person especially if a stranger even if they say they are "done with the game". That is about as risky as bare backing a lab. container full of a contagious flesh eating virus. Even if the person is known on a an actual personal off line basis, it's still risky.
Best thing is just create your own. Hopefully you don't hold it against the game.
-
Most games I play at explicitly say that they don't recognize changes in account ownership. Or, more accurately, that you don't own an account, and so anyone who "sells" it is selling something they don't actually own. So that particular scam is not limited just to CO, but to any game with accounts (i.e., all MMOs everywhere)
Checking the Perfect World EULA, it says the same thing:You do not have ownership of and may not sell, transfer, trade or auction any Accounts, characters, items, coin, Zen or Proprietary Materials, nor may you assist others in doing so, except as expressly authorized by PWE. PWE does not recognize any transfers occurring outside of the Service of anything related to the Service.
So, yeah, they were breaking the EULA by selling the account in the first place. You can report them if you have some record of the transaction. It won't get you the account or your money back, but it'll keep them from selling it over and over.
I guess it's saying something about CO, though, that you don't want to start over with your own account. If CoH came back up right now with all of my characters gone, I'd start over in a heartbeat. (While I'd miss my Vet rewards and Market purchases, I'd miss the pile of Inf that I use to finance new characters the most. Still wouldn't stop me)