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Community => Comics and Other Media => Topic started by: Kaos Arcanna on September 25, 2013, 01:14:24 AM

Title: Agents of Shield
Post by: Kaos Arcanna on September 25, 2013, 01:14:24 AM

No spoilers, but I liked it.

 ;D
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: beveri8469 on September 25, 2013, 02:29:19 AM
very awesome. enjoyed it and i liked all the characters.
plus since joss whedon is exec producing it will be awesome.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Super Firebug on September 25, 2013, 02:44:35 AM
I want to like it, and I did like some of it. But Coulson's governmental-steamroller approach gets in my way. "We'll get what we want, and we'll flatten anyone to do it. We'll even misuse one of our own team." I mean, I know that SHIELD have a job to do, but I just bristle at that sort of thing, especially from government. (There's also Coulson's smiling while he takes what he wants. Someone's going to take a swing at him, if he keeps that up.)

It was the same way for me with the one-season show, "Threshold". Given the premise, I REALLY wanted to like it. But the way that the scientists, and others, were "recruited" for the project by, essentially, being abducted by the government and forced into it, really left a bad taste in my mouth.

If I were a superhero approached by SHIELD, and they said that they needed my help, but made it clear that working with them was entirely up to me, I'd likely want to help. But the more they tried the steamroller, the more resistance they'd get.

I'd like the show a lot more if they toned down the government's bully-boy tactics. Real life has too much of that.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Golden Girl on September 25, 2013, 02:46:34 AM
They might be using that theme as part of the set up for Avengers 2.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: FatherXmas on September 25, 2013, 04:29:47 AM
Last minute.  Lola.  SQUEEEE!

For the most part Coulson's team are hand picked SHIELD agents with the exception of Skye.  And SHIELD is use to "containing" the situation as fast as they can, so toe stepping is involved.  Don't forget that Skye was the one who indirectly put Agent Ward in danger in Paris so him black bagging her was somewhat appropriate.

Joss is vicariously living through Coulson.  The dry humor was a half a beat off sometimes, forced, but it's the pilot, it'll take some time to get into the flow of things.

I think that was the last Firefly crewman who hadn't appeared in another Joss's shows, or at least another SciFi/Fantasy series since Serenity.

Teared up a bit at the Mutant Enemy card.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Night-Hawk07 on September 25, 2013, 05:11:21 AM
I think Skye might be my new celebrity crush.  O_O

I enjoyed the show. There was "something" about it that made it not quite feel.....complete, I guess, to me. Really didn't detract from the overall show though. Honestly, I'm far more excited about Season 2 of Arrow than I was for this, but I certainly won't stop watching anytime soon.

Besides, with Summer Glau (bless her) on Arrow, I'm going to need a new show to watch by next season anyway....
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Battlechimp on September 25, 2013, 10:47:32 PM
I liked it a lot. Fun and not bad on the pacing.  Managed to introduce the main cast in a way that not only showcased what sort of characters they are and what they can do without feeling like a Mickey Mouse roll call.

I did like they way they made references to things from or about the comics as well as the references to movie lore. Without being to spoilery
skye's line about  "Are you going to take me in your little journey into mystery"  (for those that don't know that's the comic that introduced Thor). Or her name dropping of project Pegasus. I would absolutely geek out if they had a cameo or mention of SHIELD agent Wendell Vaughn.  Or even working in Agent O'Grady as a cameo, especially with the Ant man movie coming down the pipe

And have to agree with Night-hawk.  Skye may very well be my new celebrity crush:-)  wow is she beautiful
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Ohioknight on September 26, 2013, 12:52:31 AM
Speaking as the guy who renamed SHIELD for Mark Gruenwald at Marvel in 1990, I'm getting a real kick out of these replies...
(oh, sorry -- thought I was on FARK for a moment)

Obviously I liked it (hey, they kept 3 of my words) but I also expect the standard episodes will be better than the pilot with all that set-up and backstory work to cram in.  I just assume that what Coulson "must never know" is that he's an LMD which makes his slightly strange affect interesting (of course it's not inconsistent with the previous performances, either) -- but then I could be wrong.

Oh yeah, and I SQUEEE'd at the car too -- the King lives on.

In Columbus Ohio, right after the building explosion at the beginning, we had a "breaking news bulletin" interrupt with a report of an explosion at Columbus police headquarters (it turned out to be that some cop fired his weapon -- probably accidentally-- in the building and wouldn't admit it) -- but it made for a weird coincidence.  Some day I'll have to watch the five minutes we missed.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Kaos Arcanna on September 26, 2013, 01:44:30 AM
They're rerunning the pilot tomorrow if you missed it.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: eabrace on September 26, 2013, 01:57:35 AM
It's also up on Hulu now, too.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Mandu on September 26, 2013, 03:48:31 AM
I'm guessing that LMD will now mean Life Model Duplicate.  They won't want be calling Coulson a Decoy.  On the other hand they might just want fans to be assuming that he's an LMD when it's really something else like he was dead for 24 hours and they used some sort of regeneration device on him or something.

I did love the show but two bits I didn't like that much.  The trope/cliche/whatever of the good guy volunteering for an experiment that changes him.  Doc Ock, Lizard, Morbius, etc...  Sure all of those guys experimented on themselves but it is still the same thing.  Good guy turned dangerous by an experiment meant to do good.

And then they followed it up with the old routine of you think somebody killed him but is just administering the cure.

But I suppose I have to expect comic book cliches in a comic book show.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: FatherXmas on September 26, 2013, 04:28:16 AM
It's obvious that "Tahiti" never happened.  But I'm sure "it's a magical place" is a hint about how Coulson is back.  There was also another off the cuff comment about "magic, but not really it's science" by Fitz.  And Skye's sass against authority reminds me a bit of Faith.

Favorite quotes:

Maria Hill: "Everything's changing.  A little while ago, most people went to bed thinking the craziest thing in the world was a billionaire in a flying metal suit.  Then aliens invaded New York and were beaten back by, among others, a giant green monster, a costumed hero from the 40's and a god."
Agent Ward: "I don't think Thor's technically a god."
Maria Hill: "Well, you haven't been near his arms."

Skye: [to Mike] With great power comes ... a ton of weird crap that you are not prepared to deal with."

Agent Coulson injects truth serum into Agent Ward
Agent Ward: "Hey!  What the hell?!"
Agent Coulson: "I'm sorry.  Did that hurt?"
Agent Ward: "No.  But you've lost your mind.  You should never do that to a member of your team.  And, yes, it did hurt a little bit.  But I always try and mask my pain in front of beautiful women 'cause I think it makes me seem more masculine.  My God, this stuff works fast."
Agent Coulson: [to Skye] Don't trust us?  Ask him whatever you like.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: CG on September 26, 2013, 03:08:35 PM
<Spoilers, obviously, I hope >

So, I got a chance to watch it and overall it was a little uneven, but it's a pilot so that's to be expected.  I'm curious about the histories of Coulson and Melinda May.  Ming-na did a fantastic job!  I'm very curious to the circumstances which lead to an obviously very skilled field agent taking a desk job and showing a marked aversion to any action.  It was telling that she broke her rule to save people from the gunman.

Fitz and Simmons were a little cookie cutter, but I'm sure they'll be developed further down the line.  Loved the drones skimming around the scene; nice to see that they can casually do these things in TV now.

Ward was fun.  It's interesting that a typical Shield special agent appears to be a fish out of water in Coulson's group.  The fight at the start of the episode was very "Bourne Identity".  Loved the woman just walking out of the apartment in disgust.

The sooner the character Skye pulls a Coulson (dies horribly to motivate the team) the better, IMO.  The character, motivations and skillset made very little cohesive sense.   For someone who is incredibly vulnerable personally, she doesn't do anything to try and protect herself.  There's no reason she couldn't have sent text messages to Mike and monitored him by remote. 

The trick with the GPS encrypted files (while making no sense on it's face) is a fundamental limitation (staying in one place) for someone who should be on the move.  Her only defence is not to be found.  She also seems more in the know that Shield about the secret things going on; why would she join them?

I liked the references to the movie power origins and how Mike thought he was a superhero in his origin story.  Of course, he's going crazy, but I liked that inversion.  I'm curious about what will be coming from Centipede, the scientist, etc.  I really liked the effects for the powers they used.  I am hopeful they will have lots of variety as the season progresses.

Nice to see Gunn and Book showing up in a Whedon show.  Were they the last who had not?
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: eabrace on September 26, 2013, 03:19:27 PM
The trick with the GPS encrypted files (while making no sense on it's face) is a fundamental limitation (staying in one place) for someone who should be on the move.  Her only defence is not to be found.
Interesting that you mention that.  The first time I watched through the episode I wondered how that would work.  It wasn't until the second time through that I caught her saying her van was always parked "around the corner" to Mike when she met him face to face.  I suppose if the van's always parked in the same spot, everything works until you (or someone else) move the van.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: FatherXmas on September 26, 2013, 06:02:22 PM
She likely has a back door that she wasn't willing to reveal.  Or it was a ruse to get back to a wifi hot spot.  Question is what did she stash in her shirt?  As for her skill set, I think they made it clear she's the uber hacker.  I also think she's suppose to be the viewer proxy, the outsider being let in behind the curtain.

What I loved about Fitz-Simmons was the rapid banter.  And to be clear they aren't a couple they threw in the Fitz's nerdy way of asking Skye out.

The little bit with Ward and Fitz-Simmons in relax mode, eating take out, Ward out of the suit, Simmons belting back a brewski was an interesting touch.  Not all suits and lab jackets.

As for the Whedon acting pool of regulars, there's quite a lot who haven't popped up in one of the other shows or movies he's been involved in.  Most of the cast of Buffy, some of Angel, Dollhouse and Firefly.  Thing is most of them have been on successful TV shows or at least one scifi/fantasy series or movie.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: eabrace on September 26, 2013, 06:48:05 PM
Question is what did she stash in her shirt?
Why did I start laughing when I read that?
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Omega Force 1990 on September 26, 2013, 09:58:26 PM
The more I think about it, the more I hate the hacker.  Her lies caused every problem in the episode.

Spoiler for Hidden:
Mike needed a job, and treatment to regulate Extremis. SHIELD offers him both at the end of the episode. If that insufferable brat hadn't lied to him about SHIELD in the beginning they would have been able to help him before he attacked his old boss and endangered everyone at the airport. (Incidentally, her description of SHIELD as "men in suits, scary, scary bad." was really out of place Whedon-speak. It was kind of jarring.)

 The truth serum "gag" is another sore spot. I hate mind controllers, and if he'd jabbed me with it and turned me over to the enemy like that I'd have attacked him immediately.

 I saw the teaser for the upcoming season. It looks like Coulson is going to use the hacker as a canary, flinging her face first into danger so he doesn't risk decent people. I can live with that.

AIM had almost perfected Extremis before they were taken out by the Iron Legion, so I figure this new group is either the Power Broker or Hydra (hinted at by the assassin in the pilot and the Red Skull gang in the teaser). The Secret Empire as an outlier.

L.M.D. was my theory, until I had a revelation.  He died while fighting a Norse god and went to "a magical place."  Einherjar?
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Battlechimp on September 26, 2013, 10:22:41 PM
But see the thing is, at that time Skye was not lying to Mike.  Her impression of SHIELD was they were scary men in black suits that covered up secrets and made people "disappear".  That is a perfectly legit and logical way for an outsider to view SHIELD when she's seeing all their cover ups and stories. 

It wasn't until her sit down with Ward that her impression of them changed, which you can see was what Coulson was trying to accomplish.  That was full disclosure in a way that proved they weren't holding things back, and could show why they were doing things in a way that just seeing reports just would not convey. It was to show that they were the good guys, not just say "we're the good guys. Trust us when we say that"

Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: FatherXmas on September 26, 2013, 10:49:03 PM
The more I think about it, the more I hate the hacker.  Her lies caused every problem in the episode.

Spoiler for Hidden:
Mike needed a job, and treatment to regulate Extremis. SHIELD offers him both at the end of the episode. If that insufferable brat hadn't lied to him about SHIELD in the beginning they would have been able to help him before he attacked his old boss and endangered everyone at the airport. (Incidentally, her description of SHIELD as "men in suits, scary, scary bad." was really out of place Whedon-speak. It was kind of jarring.)

 The truth serum "gag" is another sore spot. I hate mind controllers, and if he'd jabbed me with it and turned me over to the enemy like that I'd have attacked him immediately.

 I saw the teaser for the upcoming season. It looks like Coulson is going to use the hacker as a canary, flinging her face first into danger so he doesn't risk decent people. I can live with that.

AIM had almost perfected Extremis before they were taken out by the Iron Legion, so I figure this new group is either the Power Broker or Hydra (hinted at by the assassin in the pilot and the Red Skull gang in the teaser). The Secret Empire as an outlier.

L.M.D. was my theory, until I had a revelation.  He died while fighting a Norse god and went to "a magical place."  Einherjar?

So do you send in the T-1000 with no personality skills or the cute girl with absolutely no digital footprint?
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: CG on September 27, 2013, 02:55:48 PM
So do you send in the T-1000 with no personality skills or the cute girl with absolutely no digital footprint?
Apparently she does have a digital footprint as they were able to track her through her youtube video to her van in an alley...
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: FatherXmas on September 27, 2013, 11:16:08 PM
Apparently she does have a digital footprint as they were able to track her through her youtube video to her van in an alley...

As in who she is.  Of course now that she's been seen with SHIELD that can be a problem.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Captain Electric on September 28, 2013, 10:25:58 AM
People, if you're seriously combing this meticulously for plot holes and other inconsistencies, stop watching the show now. Save your sanity. Stop watching Marvel Studios movies. Don't read any Marvel comics.

Marvel stories are thrilling stories, filled with heroics, peppered with comedy and drama (dramady!), chock-full of bad puns and swiss-cheese plots. The thing about Marvel is (on-screen and in comics), they give you enough great dialogue and pacing to make up for the terrible stories. And I say this as one of Marvel's biggest fans. I still read their comics and I love them. I love those terrible stories and the charismatic heroes and villains who star in them. It's good, cheap entertainment.

Like I always say, when I want fine literature, well I have shelves for that too.

Relax, stop fooling yourselves, and you'll be just fine. There's an old saying, "You can't scrub spots off a leopard." You can say "I don't have to accept these inconsistencies, I have a right to complain," until you're blue in the face, but you won't ever change good ol' Marvel. And thank goodness for that.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Shenku on September 29, 2013, 07:29:53 AM
People, if you're seriously combing this meticulously for plot holes and other inconsistencies, stop watching the show now. Save your sanity. Stop watching Marvel Studios movies. Don't read any Marvel comics.

Marvel stories are thrilling stories, filled with heroics, peppered with comedy and drama (dramady!), chock-full of bad puns and swiss-cheese plots. The thing about Marvel is (on-screen and in comics), they give you enough great dialogue and pacing to make up for the terrible stories. And I say this as one of Marvel's biggest fans. I still read their comics and I love them. I love those terrible stories and the charismatic heroes and villains who star in them. It's good, cheap entertainment.

Like I always say, when I want fine literature, well I have shelves for that too.

Relax, stop fooling yourselves, and you'll be just fine. There's an old saying, "You can't scrub spots off a leopard." You can say "I don't have to accept these inconsistencies, I have a right to complain," until you're blue in the face, but you won't ever change good ol' Marvel. And thank goodness for that.

Eh, some people like to complain, but that doesn't mean they don't like it.

It's like how a lot of people are saying George Lucas destroyed Star Wars with Episodes 1-3, but they still find themselves watching any/all of the movies when they do their regular marathons on Spike TV or whatever, so obviously they still like it.

All it means is that they're interested enough in the show to pick it apart and digest every bit of it, which is a good thing because it means they're that much more into the show, i.e. "fans". :P

And yes, Lola made me squee at the end a little bit. ;D
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: JaguarX on September 29, 2013, 08:10:22 AM
People, if you're seriously combing this meticulously for plot holes and other inconsistencies, stop watching the show now. Save your sanity. Stop watching Marvel Studios movies. Don't read any Marvel comics.

Marvel stories are thrilling stories, filled with heroics, peppered with comedy and drama (dramady!), chock-full of bad puns and swiss-cheese plots. The thing about Marvel is (on-screen and in comics), they give you enough great dialogue and pacing to make up for the terrible stories. And I say this as one of Marvel's biggest fans. I still read their comics and I love them. I love those terrible stories and the charismatic heroes and villains who star in them. It's good, cheap entertainment.

Like I always say, when I want fine literature, well I have shelves for that too.

Relax, stop fooling yourselves, and you'll be just fine. There's an old saying, "You can't scrub spots off a leopard." You can say "I don't have to accept these inconsistencies, I have a right to complain," until you're blue in the face, but you won't ever change good ol' Marvel. And thank goodness for that.

lol. IMDB needs this posting now.

But if people followed that, then there wouldn't be a such thing as movie critics. Hundreds of jobs would be lost! :p
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Captain Electric on September 29, 2013, 08:47:33 AM
True that.

And Lola got some squee out of me too. Ahem. Manly squee....
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: FatherXmas on September 29, 2013, 09:00:34 AM
I didn't really SQUEE, but when Phil flipped the switch I leapt out of my chair, thrust my arms into the air and shouted "YES, about damn time!".  Been waiting for that since Capt America.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Peacemaker on September 30, 2013, 08:44:22 AM
Has anybody else read there is supposed to be a little easter egg after the credits of this weeks episode?
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: CG on September 30, 2013, 02:12:26 PM
People, if you're seriously combing this meticulously for plot holes and other inconsistencies, stop watching the show now. Save your sanity. Stop watching Marvel Studios movies. Don't read any Marvel comics.
That's not how it works. 

Comics are run by the "Rule of Cool".  If it's cool, it gets overlooked and if it's not, it gets complained about.

Stark's Iron Legion flying California -> Florida in 5 mins (2700 miles) gets overlooked for the awesome hero shot.  Lame-o (supposed) hacker who's terrible at her (supposed) specialty?  Megabytes of internet condemnation. ;)

Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Omega Force 1990 on September 30, 2013, 06:03:52 PM
But see the thing is, at that time Skye was not lying to Mike.
Yeah, you're right.  We know that she wasn't telling the truth, but she didn't know that.  I'm still looking forward to her death.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Captain Electric on October 01, 2013, 02:30:29 AM
Has anybody else read there is supposed to be a little easter egg after the credits of this weeks episode?

Does that cruel Whedon realize that's going to result in me having to sit through the credits after EVERY EPISODE? :gonk:

That's not how it works. 

Comics are run by the "Rule of Cool".  If it's cool, it gets overlooked and if it's not, it gets complained about.

See Shenku's post above for the second half of the Rule of Cool. ;D
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: FatherXmas on October 01, 2013, 03:51:28 AM
I think like the first episode with Lola, every episode will end in some Marvelverse call out that "true believers" will get jazzed about.

For instance, end of The Avengers, only those verse in Marvel myth recognized Thanos or smile at the quip about "courting Death".
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: CG on October 01, 2013, 02:05:27 PM
See Shenku's post above for the second half of the Rule of Cool. ;D
There are no limits on customer satisfaction going in the direction of awesome, but there are limits on the other end.  If something gets too annoying, people stop enjoying complaining about it and just stop buying/watching.  I'm going to keep watching to see how it develops.  There are always adjustments to a show after the pilot.

That said, if she continues to be as badly written as the pilot, I'm sure I can find something less aggravating to do with my time. ;)
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Night-Hawk07 on October 02, 2013, 12:45:57 AM
LMPAO

*CRACK!*

"What the hell was that?!"

"...her wrist."
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Eoraptor on October 02, 2013, 04:15:43 AM
one thing I got a kick out of, this week, the logo for SHIELD was subtly changed in all the adverts. if you noticed that, you knew who the special cameo was.

I think the writing is a bit stilted. It's clearly being written from an ensemble perspective, but the creative team also feel huge pressure to make the show perform instantly from ABC because of the cost of production, so they aren't taking the time they really need to let the ensemble characters develop. Tonight's epi for instance there great hints about character backstory in a couple of spots, but they were hard to pick out for all the wham bam action, and would probably be lost on the casual viewer who is quickly going to get bored with the seemingly wooden characters who aren't being allowed natural progression.

does that make sense to anyone else?
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: FatherXmas on October 02, 2013, 06:55:19 AM
one thing I got a kick out of, this week, the logo for SHIELD was subtly changed in all the adverts. if you noticed that, you knew who the special cameo was.

I think the writing is a bit stilted. It's clearly being written from an ensemble perspective, but the creative team also feel huge pressure to make the show perform instantly from ABC because of the cost of production, so they aren't taking the time they really need to let the ensemble characters develop. Tonight's epi for instance there great hints about character backstory in a couple of spots, but they were hard to pick out for all the wham bam action, and would probably be lost on the casual viewer who is quickly going to get bored with the seemingly wooden characters who aren't being allowed natural progression.

does that make sense to anyone else?

Well crisis = character development.  Plus they had to learn to work together to win the day.  Big lesson everyone.  Mini Avenger's moment.

So is it a question of keeping your enemies closer or to create a triple agent?  Plus we get a little more background of the Malinda May character.

"Cancel the fish tank".
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Battlechimp on October 02, 2013, 01:12:20 PM
one thing I got a kick out of, this week, the logo for SHIELD was subtly changed in all the adverts. if you noticed that, you knew who the special cameo was.

I think the writing is a bit stilted. It's clearly being written from an ensemble perspective, but the creative team also feel huge pressure to make the show perform instantly from ABC because of the cost of production, so they aren't taking the time they really need to let the ensemble characters develop. Tonight's epi for instance there great hints about character backstory in a couple of spots, but they were hard to pick out for all the wham bam action, and would probably be lost on the casual viewer who is quickly going to get bored with the seemingly wooden characters who aren't being allowed natural progression.

does that make sense to anyone else?

That type of character development, where they keep dropping hints over several episodes as to the character development is something that goes along with serial TV, not to mention Josh's writing style.  They stated why ward acts like he does towards the team.  I like how Fitz-Simmons are always referee to together, and while not a "couple" its obvious they're almost like siblings.   And some nice hints about Mae's past.  Its interesting that the lab guys didn't know who she was, but Ward knew right away.

And anyone else notice how Coulson is rather good at manipulating his team? :-)

And did anyone else notice that 616 designation on the radio?  I like how they put things in, not just for fans if the movies, but for the comic fans as well
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: eabrace on October 02, 2013, 02:43:02 PM
And did anyone else notice that 616 designation on the radio?
:o OK, that one was obscure enough that I just had to look it up.  I not only had no idea there was a reference being made to anything there, I had no idea what significance that number had until just now.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Battlechimp on October 02, 2013, 10:47:33 PM
:o OK, that one was obscure enough that I just had to look it up.  I not only had no idea there was a reference being made to anything there, I had no idea what significance that number had until just now.

That is something I hope they keep doing. There's certain things they reference from the movies that they just assume you've seen the movies.  Coulson getting stabbed, things powered by Teserract energy.  But they also throw in odd comic references that don't impact plot or characters.  They're just fun things to pick out for fans of the comic.

The 616 reference (what is considered the main comic marvel universe for those that didn't know) or in the first episode mentioning Project Pegasus, and the line "are coming o our journey into mystery".  The SHIELD project that Quasar came out of and the title of the comic that debuted Thor respectively.  Even Lola being a SHIELD flying car. When you see a red convertible associated with SHIELD, its going to fly at some point.

I hope they keep that up and in a way that's more "that's neat" rather than "should I know what they're talking about?"

Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Ironwolf on October 03, 2013, 02:10:45 AM
First of all the show is about Super people and how SHEILD tries to contain the powers and damage the supers do.

I look right at the dude in the Incredibles who has to go fix the mess. That is what SHEILD does find supers who are making problems and make it stop - with whatever it takes. They don't have rules except - make it right. The crisis is the point of the show or you wouldn't be needing the SHEILD team.

The magic part of Coulson had me immediately thinking Dr. Strange.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Captain Electric on October 03, 2013, 08:19:23 AM
:o OK, that one was obscure enough that I just had to look it up.  I not only had no idea there was a reference being made to anything there, I had no idea what significance that number had until just now.

It's a neat easter egg, but maybe misleading--the Marvel cinematic universe is not the mainline 616 universe. The cinematic universe has more bits in common with Marvel's Ultimate universe.

Also I was surprised recently to learn that "former Marvel Editor in Chief Joe Quesada and Executive Editor Tom Brevoort have each stated their dislike for the term Earth 616." [LINK (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth-616#Editorial_reaction)] It comes down to, basically, their (and reportedly some of their colleagues) dislike for DC Comics' Earth Prime and oodles of parallel Earths and a desire to distance themselves from that kind of storytelling.

To be clear though, Marvel DOES have its own laundry list of parallel realities and the writers DO use designations when it's necessary for characters and stories, much like Portal Corps does in City of Heroes. Fans generally seem to either like it or just not mind. It's just become one of those staples of comic books, although I am aware that Marvel intermingles its parallel realities far less often than DC and I'm not complaining about that either. 616 stands strong on its own.

But in CoH's case I love the whole Portal Corps shtick, it's like combining that old show Sliders with super hero comics.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: CG on October 03, 2013, 01:47:58 PM
Since Skye seems to be a double agent of some kind, it may be that she's not actually a Hacker herself; it might be that Rising Tide has really good hackers but Skye is better at infiltration (that's just supposition because she didn't actually do any hacking this episode - her computer skill level is up in the air at the moment) and was allowed to be captured and "turned".

If that's the case, I sincerely hope that Coulson knows this and is hoping to make her a triple agent (!).  'Cause his whole team is telling him this is a bad idea and they're right unless he knows something they don't know.

In any case, the character Skye might not need to die in a fire to make me happy.  We'll see.

Anyone else think they actually blasted the 0-8-4 into orbit?  Didn't think so.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Night-Hawk07 on October 03, 2013, 03:54:39 PM
The two scientists make me think of the Wonder Twins....
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: eabrace on October 03, 2013, 03:57:24 PM
Fitz Simmons powers, activate!
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Arnabas on October 03, 2013, 07:12:48 PM

Also I was surprised recently to learn that "former Marvel Editor in Chief Joe Quesada and Executive Editor Tom Brevoort have each stated their dislike for the term Earth 616." [LINK (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth-616#Editorial_reaction)] It comes down to, basically, their (and reportedly some of their colleagues) dislike for DC Comics' Earth Prime and oodles of parallel Earths and a desire to distance themselves from that kind of storytelling.

To be clear though, Marvel DOES have its own laundry list of parallel realities and the writers DO use designations when it's necessary for characters and stories, much like Portal Corps does in City of Heroes. Fans generally seem to either like it or just not mind. It's just become one of those staples of comic books, although I am aware that Marvel intermingles its parallel realities far less often than DC and I'm not complaining about that either. 616 stands strong on its own.

I actually hate that the main universe is 616... To me, this means that it is the 615th divergence from the real world. So the stories that we are reading are about alternate versions of the "real" characters, who would be in universe 1.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Captain Electric on October 03, 2013, 07:49:34 PM
Well...everyone knows deep down that the real #1 is Primal Earth, and Marvel can't write stories about that. ;D

Seriously though I sometimes wonder if designation 1 IS our real world, given some of the weird parallel universe theories that Reed Richards and other characters have mentioned over the years. You might enjoy reading about 616 far more in that case.

By the way did you know that there is a Marvel Comics company in the 616 universe?
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: dwturducken on October 04, 2013, 02:38:35 AM
So, evidently, I was the only one who didn't immediately get the SHIELD car reference because he was so busy being irritated by how it was almost shot for shot from the end of the first Back to the Future. I was just glad Coulson didn't say, "Where we're going, we don't need roads."
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Ohioknight on October 04, 2013, 02:42:51 AM
Well...everyone knows deep down that the real #1 is Primal Earth, and Marvel can't write stories about that. ;D

Seriously though I sometimes wonder if designation 1 IS our real world, given some of the weird parallel universe theories that Reed Richards and other characters have mentioned over the years. You might enjoy reading about 616 far more in that case.

By the way did you know that there is a Marvel Comics company in the 616 universe?

Of course! Stan and Jack tried to attend Reed and Sue's wedding (Ben tossed them out because they didn't have invites).
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Omega Force 1990 on October 04, 2013, 05:35:05 PM
I saw the second episode of SHIELD. I don't know why I even bothered.

It was my understanding that FitzSimmons are SHIELD agents, but as seen in the second episode, they are clearly just civilian support staff as useless as the hacker. I doubt they've ever worn beta cloth or held a needle gun. With my faith in FitzSimmons ruined, I was feeling much more charitable toward the hacker, especially after her apology to generic white guy.

Hopefully the hacker will decide her loyalties lie with SHIELD before she leaks their secrets to HYDRA, but I don't know if I care enough to watch the show and find out.  :(
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Battlechimp on October 04, 2013, 11:05:54 PM
Of course! Stan and Jack tried to attend Reed and Sue's wedding (Ben tossed them out because they didn't have invites).

Not only that, but as established in She-Hulk, those in universe Marvel comics are based on the heroes adventures and many can be used in court
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: HalcyonS on October 05, 2013, 03:27:31 AM
I actually hate that the main universe is 616... To me, this means that it is the 615th divergence from the real world. So the stories that we are reading are about alternate versions of the "real" characters, who would be in universe 1.

Well isn't the 616 designation from the old Captain Britain series and not what we call ourselves but what Merlin and the Corp designated our world as it was 'found' by them?
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Captain Electric on October 06, 2013, 02:42:17 AM
I don't know the exact details, but I do remember hearing or reading that it was first used in Captain Britain.

Er, in his comic. :-[
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Arnabas on October 06, 2013, 06:39:27 PM
I don't know the exact details, but I do remember hearing or reading that it was first used in Captain Britain.

Er, in his comic. :-[

Really? I remember reading an article where they said they picked it arbitrarily.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Captain Electric on October 06, 2013, 06:44:55 PM
I'm talking about when and where it was first used, not how or why. Although that'd be interesting to know, too. I'll have to look around later.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Battlechimp on October 06, 2013, 07:23:56 PM

It was my understanding that FitzSimmons are SHIELD agents

They mentioned in the first episode by Dr. Book that Fitz-Simmons weren't cleared for combat.  They are SHIELD scientists, just not SHIELD agents.  Not everyone is going to be a combat specialist, this isn't a hit team. So a team member's usefulness is not determined by how well they can handle a gun.

Although I am surprised they don't have a secondary hitter on the team.  Coulson, while he can handle himself is in a more strategic role.  Mae while she can kick butt is reluctant to do so, and doesn't like to fulfill being well for lack of a better term, the cavalry. That leaves Ward as the point man, and he really should have more active back up, especially with 3 noncombatants in tow.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Captain Electric on October 07, 2013, 02:50:30 AM
I've been reluctant to admit it, because I looked forward to the show for so long. But I am really not into the make-up of the team. I just don't like it. And that's a big deal coming from me, because I usually have an open mind about stuff and when it comes to TV I try not to be too hard of a critic. But reading Battlechimp's post made me realize something. I would have preferred a show about a SHIELD strike team. This team stinks and it has terrible chemistry and there's going to be too much baby-sitting and wet-behind-the-ears idiots pressing the Big Red Button wherever it appears. Whew! Long sentence.

I am going to keep watching anyway, because sprinkled between the terrible pacing and cheesy dialogue, there has also been some clever dialogue (99% of it attributable to Coulson), some great action scenes; and let's face it, more Marvel-brand comic book geekery, gadgetry, and super hero lore than I ever thought I'd see on television. I don't know about general audiences, but I think if you're a comic book fan and a Marvel fan, you're missing out if you don't watch the show. Even though, yes, elements of this show are terrible.

P.S. Although a couple of my favorite TV shows of all time had horrifyingly bad first seasons. Maybe it's worth reminding myself of that.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Battlechimp on October 09, 2013, 01:16:44 AM
Watching tonight's episode, it struck me as really funny. I had a character in a RPG, years ago, who's name was also Ian Quinn. Also a brilliant scientist.  And I'd guess (well at least in my fan boy dreams) both chosen so he could have the initials IQ
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Eoraptor on October 09, 2013, 03:52:55 AM
got back late from errands, chose to watch NCIS instead, am curious how Shield fares this week.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Captain Electric on October 09, 2013, 08:10:03 AM
No spoilers: The third episode was WAY less cheesy than the second episode and more fun to watch, so that's good at least. Chemistry is still terrible, but oh well, that's a hole the team is stuck in until people start dying or the show gets canceled. Beyond that, there were plenty of cool action scenes, lots of face time for Coulson, and some really neat special effects. It's still a terrible show, but I can't stop watching it.

Now for a spoiler:
Spoiler for Hidden:
Wondering what the end scene means for Dr. Franklin Hall? You can just call him Graviton now (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graviton_(comics)).
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Omega Force 1990 on October 09, 2013, 04:44:27 PM
They mentioned in the first episode by Dr. Book that Fitz-Simmons weren't cleared for combat.  They are SHIELD scientists, just not SHIELD agents.
I did hear him say that, but it didn't really register.  I figured that everyone in SHIELD has basic combat training just like the Army and police.  Coulson's lack of fighting agents is really alarming.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: eabrace on October 09, 2013, 05:39:38 PM
I noticed they touched on combat vs. non-combat agents at the beginning of the episode this week.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Omega Force 1990 on October 09, 2013, 06:38:44 PM
I am shocked and delighted that episode 3 wasn't terrible.  The only "SHIELD bad" comments were coming from monologuing Iron Man villains, and everyone on the team was playing to their strengths.  The hacker showed off her G.E.D. from the Obi-Wan Kenobi School of Honesty (Lying By Telling the Truth since 1977) and was actually entertaining to watch on mission.  She still has no chemistry with generic white guy, but hey, baby steps.

"The plan won't work without a monkey!"
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Mandu on October 10, 2013, 01:43:44 AM
And we saw our first super villain this episode.  Sure it was just a hand but he is a known Marvel villain so he might emerge eventually... hopefully.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Eoraptor on October 10, 2013, 09:27:27 PM
surprisingly enough, ABC has announced they've picked up AoS for the full season.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: FatherXmas on October 11, 2013, 06:58:45 AM
surprisingly enough, ABC has announced they've picked up AoS for the full season.

Must keep Joss happy until A2 comes out.   ;D

It is holding it's own against NCIS and the Voice in the 18-49 demographic.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: CG on October 11, 2013, 02:13:14 PM
So... Coulson doesn't appear to have some of the muscle memory he used to, eh?  Vewwy intewesting.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Shenku on October 11, 2013, 06:46:49 PM
So... Coulson doesn't appear to have some of the muscle memory he used to, eh?  Vewwy intewesting.

Hmmmmm....... Now that you mention it, we should keep a closer eye on him and make sure he doesn't start randomly spouting off about TPS Reports....... ???

What? With Paragon gone, Nemesis Plots had to go somewhere! :P
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Mandu on October 12, 2013, 01:23:00 AM
Of course ABC picked it up for a full season.  They can't cancel it until Summer (series killer) Glau joins.  She should be available right after she tanks Arrow.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Battlechimp on October 12, 2013, 03:15:35 PM
So... Coulson doesn't appear to have some of the muscle memory he used to, eh?  Vewwy intewesting.

Of course somewhere around mid season Coulson is going to get shot or stabbed and his blood will show to be a different color and he'll be a LMD or a Skull or secretly a mutant shape shifter that was taking Coulson's place so that Coulson could recover and prepare to fend off a pending inter dimensional invasion.... it could happen
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: FatherXmas on October 13, 2013, 06:22:07 AM
Of course somewhere around mid season Coulson is going to get shot or stabbed and his blood will show to be a different color and he'll be a LMD or a Skull or secretly a mutant shape shifter that was taking Coulson's place so that Coulson could recover and prepare to fend off a pending inter dimensional invasion.... it could happen

I'm pretty sure he spat blood or was cut the previous episode.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Optimus Dex on October 13, 2013, 10:20:19 PM
He spat blood when he was hit in the face by the Peruvian military woman.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: JetFlash on October 14, 2013, 06:05:10 PM
So... Coulson doesn't appear to have some of the muscle memory he used to, eh?  Vewwy intewesting.

We do know that there is something up with Coulson that "he can never know", and this means that the body he is inhabiting currently was not the one he had when he was training.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krD4hdGvGHM
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Klendarin on October 15, 2013, 07:34:42 PM
I'm going with: he was killed by Loki, taken to Valhalla (aka Tahiti) by Valkyries, and was magically dragged back to life by SHIELD.  Hey, Joss did it to Buffy...
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Atlantea on October 18, 2013, 03:07:49 AM
"I've come this far, ill do whatever it takes."

SEDUCE HIM

"...help..."


***FALLS OVER LAUGHING MY BLOODY ASS OFF***  ;D
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Kaos Arcanna on October 23, 2013, 01:22:53 AM

So it's too bad but they seem to be pretty adamant about not having any super powered types appear on the show on an ongoing basis.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Blondeshell on October 23, 2013, 03:25:55 AM
Hacker Dude: "We're in China."

Coulson: "Yeah."

Hacker Dude: "I live in Austin."

 ;D
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: FatherXmas on October 23, 2013, 03:30:53 AM
So it's too bad but they seem to be pretty adamant about not having any super powered types appear on the show on an ongoing basis.

Of course.  Joss has said many times in many interviews that the show is about "ordinary" people living in a super hero/villain world.  Of course "ordinary" is a little redefined with "The Cavalry", an agent with scores 2nd to the Black Widow, a pair of science nerds that are two halves of a very big brain, a super hacker and a man that's been to Tahiti (it's a magical place).

So yes, they are going to be going up against organizations that may want super powered individuals or recover some super science or alien devices but with the exception of maybe RDJ looking over FitzSimmons' notes on something I doubt we'll see anyone (OK, maybe they run into Darcy, except she's on another network) from any of the movie franchises or any hero/villain that they may want to use in a movie franchise.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: FatherXmas on October 23, 2013, 03:34:09 AM
Hacker Dude: "We're in China."

Coulson: "Yeah."

Hacker Dude: "I live in Austin."

 ;D

There was a great line a couple of episodes ago.

Coulson: "Remember the panic when that anti-matter meteor splashed down off the coast of Miami and almost devoured the city?"

Skye: "Nope."

Coulson: "Exactly"
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Night-Hawk07 on October 23, 2013, 04:32:25 AM
Skye...undies scene....

(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=einsteinsdesk.files.wordpress.com%2F2011%2F06%2Fdrooling-homer-simpson.jpg)

Honestly, I didn't much care for this episode. I don't know what it was, but the cheese/predicability level of this one was really high for me.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Eoraptor on October 23, 2013, 08:19:08 AM
So yes, they are going to be going up against organizations that may want super powered individuals or recover some super science or alien devices but with the exception of maybe RDJ looking over FitzSimmons' notes on something I doubt we'll see anyone (OK, maybe they run into Darcy, except she's on another network) from any of the movie franchises or any hero/villain that they may want to use in a movie franchise.
See, that's the problem. that idea starts to run thin pretty quickly. It's also why a lot of people, myself included, gave up on Alphas. When you have a show which is ostensibly about superheroes and the people that surround them, you expect to see them doing super things. Right now this show is treading a dangerous line of being too glib and cheeky, with very little pay off on the promise of "the agents of shield" living up to that vaunted organization. for instance, it was rather strongly alluded that the geegaw from episode 2 was nazi/hydra technology which had somehow been sent back in time 1500 years. yet I highly doubt that we're going to get a payoff on time travel because that would be too "super " for the show as it's been progressing thus far. it's POSSIBLE it was a tease for Cap2, but unlikely since that movie is not set in WWII either.

It's akin to tuning in to a show about the Navy SEALS, and watching them do nothing but paperwork and laundry all day long while talking about the cool stuff they do when you're not looking. pretty soon the joke wears thin.

As others have said, this show needs a consistent antagonist if it's going to keep going along, because they're not really executing "crisis of the week" very well at this point. at least IMhO.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Night-Hawk07 on October 23, 2013, 03:05:38 PM
I believe the "consistent antagonist" is supposed to be this other "super secret organization" that's been gobbling up supers as fast as SHIELD has been. I do think it'd behoove them to have the occasional guest apperence by the various A-lister heroes though. Look at Arrow. The show's about the Green Arrow, but we're getting several known heroes like Black Canary and The Flash this season.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Lothic on October 23, 2013, 06:18:50 PM
Hey, Joss did it to Buffy...

Speaking of Buffy I can't really stop equating these new characters with old ones from Joss' past...

Agent Coulson = Giles (for obvious reasons as the key acerbic "leader" guy with a possible mysterious origin)
Skye = Buffy (at least as far as the quippy, scarastic personality goes that the show is nominally centered around)
Melinda May = Faith and/or Zoe (as the semi-distant, kick-ass no-nonsense female fighter type)
Grant Ward = Angel (as the fighter guy who akwardly doesn't mesh with everyone else socially)
Leo Fitz = Topher (main boffin from Dollhouse)
Jemma Simmons = Willow and/or Kaylee (basically a tech-based boffin version of Willow)

Not sure I really like this show yet.  It seems like a watered-down version of Joss' previous shows - that's probably why I'm spending too much time trying to "equate" these new characters to older (argueably better) ones.  I'll probably give it at least the rest of the season to see if it finally "takes off" or not for me.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Yoru-hime on October 23, 2013, 07:23:26 PM
I'm still hanging in there on this one, but the longer I go, the more generic it all feels.

Episode starts, Ward's sad excuse for a tough-guy act (the guy probably sleeps with a teddy bear), plot device identified (person or actual device), plot device chased, first action scene, Skye's questionable loyalty hinted at and/or brought into play, moral ambiguity of SHIELD hinted at, Coulson's "death" in Avengers referenced, team geeks given a moment to shine, final action scene, plot device brought under control/destroyed/killed, perhaps move forward the Skye story arc just a bit. Roll credits.

Skye's good guy/bad guy story feels clunky and awkward. I'm vaguely curious as to the actual story behind it, but the end result has really never felt in doubt. (Hint: It probably doesn't involve writing out the nubile young target demographic pleaser.)

You can tell the writers are hand-cuffed, making sure that they never get in the way of the movies. I do admit, there are plenty of good one-liners, but it's getting harder to justify blocking out an hour of time just for that.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: JetFlash on October 24, 2013, 06:21:48 PM
I for one am thoroughly enjoying this show, and that says a lot for one that isn't space opera (e.g. Star Trek, BSG, Farscape).  There are numerous shows that I don't follow because while I may enjoy them early on I lose interest, including many popular with geeks everywhere.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Arnabas on October 25, 2013, 03:52:53 AM
See, that's the problem. that idea starts to run thin pretty quickly. It's also why a lot of people, myself included, gave up on Alphas. When you have a show which is ostensibly about superheroes and the people that surround them, you expect to see them doing super things.

It's akin to tuning in to a show about the Navy SEALS, and watching them do nothing but paperwork and laundry all day long while talking about the cool stuff they do when you're not looking. pretty soon the joke wears thin.

As others have said, this show needs a consistent antagonist if it's going to keep going along, because they're not really executing "crisis of the week" very well at this point. at least IMhO.

I will disagree here a bit. I never expected this to be a superhero show. I expected SHIELD. I assumed they would mainly be dealing with HYDRA and other such organisations. I expected spy stuff, with reference to the Marvel universe.

The show started off a bit weak for me, but it is slowly building momentum.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: CG on October 25, 2013, 01:27:59 PM
Of course.  Joss has said many times in many interviews that the show is about "ordinary" people living in a super hero/villain world.  Of course "ordinary" is a little redefined with "The Cavalry", an agent with scores 2nd to the Black Widow, a pair of science nerds that are two halves of a very big brain, a super hacker and a man that's been to Tahiti (it's a magical place).

Don't forget Mr. "Seal Team 6" :)

for instance, it was rather strongly alluded that the geegaw from episode 2 was nazi/hydra technology which had somehow been sent back in time 1500 years.
Actually, I think they said that was brought over by Nazis who hid in that country after WW2 and the experiment went awry and they lost the device for 60 years.  No time travel there.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: FatherXmas on October 25, 2013, 06:34:23 PM
Don't forget Mr. "Seal Team 6" :)
Actually, I think they said that was brought over by Nazis who hid in that country after WW2 and the experiment went awry and they lost the device for 60 years.  No time travel there.

Mr. "Seal Team 6" was agent with scores 2nd to Black Widow in my little breakdown of "ordinary".

And yes I think the object in Ep 2 simply ended up blasted into the 1500 year old ruins (one heck of a recoil).
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Omega Force 1990 on November 20, 2013, 06:47:45 PM
Episodes 4, 6, and 7 were so bad I didn't even care about the show anymore.  I watched 8 mostly to see how badly they would mishandle the tie-in.  Instead, I saw Coulson vs. the freakin' Wrecking Crew!  I haven't been this positive since episode 3.  If they can keep things this connected with the MCU, it would save the series.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: eabrace on November 20, 2013, 07:24:06 PM
There's something I hadn't noticed until just now.  Episode 8 was directed by Jonathan Frakes.

I also chuckled a bit at the final scene.

"Did I fall asleep?"

"For a little while..."
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Night-Hawk07 on November 20, 2013, 11:59:58 PM
Episode 8 was directed by Jonathan Frakes.

And here I thought I'd misread something. That was definitely a much better episode than the last 2 or 3.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: FatherXmas on November 21, 2013, 04:54:25 AM
There's something I hadn't noticed until just now.  Episode 8 was directed by Jonathan Frakes.

I also chuckled a bit at the final scene.

"Did I fall asleep?"

"For a little while..."

It took someone else to remind me where I heard that quote before (kicks self).  Talk about an in joke.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: ryuplaneswalker on November 30, 2013, 05:06:01 AM
I am mixed on the show, I like the concept, I am enjoying the plots, however it is really lacking in one thing.

I care not one bit about these characters beyond Coulson and maybe the Calvary, we have

Hoora! Marine Dude

Da Goverment* is EBIL sexy hacker

and most annoyingly of all

Nerdy hacker person with no social skills, who very arbitrarily has disbelief in Thor because they put their fingers in their ears and go "LALALALALA" when he is brought up.

I still think this series would have been much better served as "Hawkeye and Blackwidow investigate weird crap X-files style"

* Question, is SHEILD even really a part of the american government? in Iron man it seemed to be, however...in Avengers they seemed to answer to "vague council of dumb ass decisions" instead of like you know, The President who is usually the person in charge of the Nuclear weapons.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: eabrace on November 30, 2013, 05:40:30 AM
* Question, is SHEILD even really a part of the american government? in Iron man it seemed to be, however...in Avengers they seemed to answer to "vague council of dumb ass decisions" instead of like you know, The President who is usually the person in charge of the Nuclear weapons.
True story:  The Pentagon was initially cooperating on the Avengers - providing things like digital models of the F-35s you see in the movie - but withdrew their cooperation because the command structure of SHIELD was "unrealistic".

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/05/avengers-military/

Never mind super powers, an alien invasion, and "gods".

So, you aren't the only one asking that question.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Kaos Arcanna on December 11, 2013, 02:16:57 AM
Tonight's episode wasn't bad.

It had J August Richards in it. :D

Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: FatherXmas on December 11, 2013, 04:35:30 PM
Of course, it had a superpower "hero" so EVERYONE who didn't listen to the Joss about how this show WASN'T going to be about superpowered heroes just bad ass humans got excited.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Night-Hawk07 on December 11, 2013, 05:47:18 PM
True story:  The Pentagon was initially cooperating on the Avengers - providing things like digital models of the F-35s you see in the movie - but withdrew their cooperation because the command structure of SHIELD was "unrealistic".

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/05/avengers-military/

Never mind super powers, an alien invasion, and "gods".

So, you aren't the only one asking that question.

Isn't that what they did to Transformers 3 as well? I doubt they actually pulled out for that reason though. That may be the stated reason, but if I were a betting man, I'd say it had more to do with the draw-downs, sequesters, etc.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: eabrace on December 11, 2013, 06:43:15 PM
That may be the stated reason, but if I were a betting man, I'd say it had more to do with the draw-downs, sequesters, etc.
Nah.  The Pentagon has a pretty long lasting relationship with Hollywood.  Cooperating with production companies allows them to have a little leverage in how the military is portrayed in films and gets them some high-exposure PR for relatively low cost.  When they withdrew support of the Avengers, all of the expensive parts of the process (i.e. lending out an Army Reserve MP batallion for filming in Cleveland) were complete.  Meanwhile, they were hip deep in Zero Dark Thirty.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Lycantropus on December 11, 2013, 09:12:45 PM
Well I'm enjoying the series at any rate :)

So far it's a fun espisodic show taking place in the Marvel universe, which is about what I expected it would be.

As for depth, I'm willing to give it time. I have the feeling this one's going to build up over time.

Particularly if Skye is who I think she may be.

 :-X

Lyc~
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: JaguarX on December 12, 2013, 12:23:19 AM
Nah.  The Pentagon has a pretty long lasting relationship with Hollywood.  Cooperating with production companies allows them to have a little leverage in how the military is portrayed in films and gets them some high-exposure PR for relatively low cost.  When they withdrew support of the Avengers, all of the expensive parts of the process (i.e. lending out an Army Reserve MP batallion for filming in Cleveland) were complete.  Meanwhile, they were hip deep in Zero Dark Thirty.
Indeed.

I remember when they Transformers crew came out here to White Sands to do some filming. It was interesting stuff.

They had a model of Optimus Prime Peterbilt form for display. It looks good on film but awesome when seeing it in person.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Arnabas on December 12, 2013, 01:46:22 AM
Particularly if Skye is who I think she may be.

 :-X

Lyc~

And that would be?
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Lycantropus on December 12, 2013, 05:05:42 AM
Even a search of every miniseries Wikipedia has turns up nothing, and I can't get to my back issues at this time to pull them up.

There was a limited run series around/after Civil War that had a group of hackers running a conspiracy theory website. The main female lead was looking into the death of her father, which she was sure SHIELD had something to do with... I picked it up on a lark and found it a good read (I like miniseries as a general rule). The ending was... interesting, though it's been a few years since I've read it so don't remember all the details (like the name, dangitall!)

Sound familiar? May be totally a red herring, but such a short story about a side group seems like just the thing Joss would latch on to, and build on.

Lyc~
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: bmorrison on December 12, 2013, 02:16:06 PM
And that would be?

Spoiler for Hidden:
I'm guessing Coulson's or May's Daughter?
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Night-Hawk07 on December 12, 2013, 09:02:08 PM
Spoiler for Hidden:
I'm guessing Coulson's or May's Daughter?

I'm thinking the latter based on how agitated they got over Skye digging into her family history.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: FatherXmas on December 13, 2013, 10:30:15 AM
Neither.  Coulson mentioned to Skye about the story about how May acquired the Cavalry nickname.  In the story he mentioned there was a young girl who was also hostage.  I wouldn't be surprised that was Skye's mother and May was the one who dropped her off.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Kaos Arcanna on January 08, 2014, 02:36:42 AM
And without going into spoilers, the big secret about Coulson's return seems like a let down to me.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: JWBullfrog on January 08, 2014, 06:24:16 AM
I was kind of building a theory around him being an LMD. <<old marvel reference>> That might still be in play but perhaps not.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Eoraptor on January 09, 2014, 07:39:19 AM
yeah, that's the problem... both in the movies and in the show Coulson has been presented as almost supernaturally unflappable. So this particular explanation is tonally pretty damned flat for his character.

Does it work as an explanation? it does, ask anyone who's ever been caught up in an end-of-life debate about what is acceptable and it becomes both morose and complex... but... yeah, from a story-telling PoV, it just doesn't rise to the occasion. Though I will give ABC kudos for going ahead with showing a couple of pretty gorey scenes on prime time (read prior to 10pm) TV.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: FatherXmas on January 10, 2014, 01:56:21 AM
There's got to be something else we are missing here.  Mainly why did Fury move "heaven and earth" to bring him back?  Did Fury let him die so the Avengers had the motivation?  Does Coulson know something important that only he knows?  Why is he so damn important?

Maybe we'll get some answers in the Capt America movie.  I have a feeling this and other plot points on AoS is going to somehow fold back into that.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Eoraptor on January 10, 2014, 10:20:58 PM
that's a good wager since Cap 2 focuses almost entirely around shield.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Blondeshell on January 10, 2014, 10:44:36 PM
I do like how we can get direct tie-ins between events in the movies and TV show, even if the actual headliner heroes aren't shown. It makes the show feel as if it's part of a much larger story than will fit in 42-minute chunks.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Mental Maden on January 11, 2014, 03:52:39 PM
Agreed the whole "we took away your will to live reveal" (while in real life would be scary and profound) in fiction probably only rates a 32 on the "Luke, I am your father" scale.  Something tells me (I hope at least) there is more to this story.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Kaos Arcanna on January 15, 2014, 12:13:28 PM
I have a feeling the plan is to keep Skye's full origin a secret until the show winds up. I just hope the showrunners KNOW what her origin is.


Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: CG on January 15, 2014, 02:11:17 PM
Spoilers, obviously

Just got around to watching the post-break episode.  Wow, was that dark...

I feel terrible for Mike.  He just keeps going from bad to worse.

I feel like the message here is that trying to be a hero leads to bad things happening to you.  Coulson tried to be a hero taking on Loki and look what happened to him.  Mike tried to be a hero and see how he ended up.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Epelesker on January 17, 2014, 06:26:31 AM
There were quite a few twists this last episode. Probably one of my favorites so far.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: FatherXmas on January 17, 2014, 08:43:43 AM
It's been interesting, the changes in most of the characters.

Fitz went from 1/2 of FitzSimmons to now very serious sci guy since Simmons tried to kill herself.  Not as zany anymore.  Hope the writters keep that up.

May went from dark and brooding to slightly less dark and brooding.  Maybe because we know more about her backstory.  Maybe because she is "softening" up.

Wade is a bit more personable.  And there appears to be less of a chance of a Skye/Wade ship.

Coulson is now doubtful about everything.

Skye proved she can hack people and work pretty much on her own.  At least against timid bankers and home security drones.

Simmons faced her own mortality.  But I can't say how that has changed her other than being a little less hyperactive.  But without Fitz being her hyperactive buddy anymore not sure if the cause of that change is internal or external.

I did like the last episode and it did provide us with the start of another minor villain.  But honestly I would have liked to have heard Fitz and Simmon's "talk".
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Eoraptor on January 17, 2014, 08:39:10 PM
just gonna drop this here http://marvel.com/news/tv/2014/1/17/21783/the_lady_sif_set_to_drop_in_on_marvels_agents_of_shield
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Mandu on January 25, 2014, 09:32:08 PM
I finally got caught up on this so I could look up stuff on the internet without worrying about spoiling myself.  So here are a couple spoilers that you probably already know but I thought at least one of them (Mike) was awesome.

Spoiler for Hidden:
Donnie will become Blizzard and Mike is going to be Deathlok.  Although since Deathlok was created from a corpse and has all the looks of a zombie cyborg I have a feeling that Mike is going to look a lot more like Death Locket does.

Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Night-Hawk07 on January 29, 2014, 01:27:10 AM
Am I missing something? Every time I tune in, the show's a re-run. I missed the first week after the break, but the past two weeks (including this one) were repeats.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Heroette on January 29, 2014, 01:30:45 AM
Today is a repeat (I am PST)?  Well, I guess there's no reason to plan on watching it tonight.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Kaos Arcanna on February 05, 2014, 02:04:24 AM
Not a bad episode tonight.

I am thinking
Spoiler for Hidden:
Deathlook
needs a better look though.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Night-Hawk07 on February 05, 2014, 06:03:33 AM
Holy crap, they finally put out a new episode!
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Kaos Arcanna on February 05, 2014, 12:05:07 PM
And they're back to reruns until March now. 
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Super Firebug on February 05, 2014, 08:13:24 PM
And they're back to reruns until March now.

Are you serious? They're off for weeks, they put out ONE new episode, and then they're off again until next month?? They're not just shooting themselves in the foot, they're cutting that foot OFF! With the slow start that they got, and shedding viewers along the way, you'd think they'd put more thought into building viewership momentum.

I have to agree with whoever said that it seems like DC and Marvel agreed that one gets the TV market, and the other gets the movie market. Marvel does great films, but they need a far-better TV strategy.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: CG on February 05, 2014, 08:45:18 PM
It's probably not Marvel making that decision, but the networks wanting to save the episodes for Sweeps week and/or avoid broadcasting new stuff during the Olympics when viewership will be fragmented.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: FatherXmas on February 06, 2014, 04:57:49 AM
Helps a tad leaving a bit of a cliffhanger.  It was a quite good episode for once.  Simmons throwing herself on a grenade for one.  Splitting Team Action from Team Geek.  May was AWESOME.  Don't let the lady get mad.  You thought Hulk gets testy.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: eabrace on February 06, 2014, 05:28:09 AM
I liked the Abomination reference this week, too.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Eoraptor on February 06, 2014, 09:32:25 PM
Yeah, a lot of it is down to the olympics followed on closely by sweeps week. that's the same reason NBC rushed Leno out the door 6 months before the official end of his contract, to book end the tonight show handover around the olympics and then sweeps.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: JWBullfrog on February 06, 2014, 11:52:22 PM
I liked the Abomination reference this week, too.

Glad I'm not the only one who caught that...
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: FatherXmas on February 07, 2014, 04:51:27 AM
Glad I'm not the only one who caught that...

It was a nice threat.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Super Firebug on February 09, 2014, 07:48:07 AM
Yeah, a lot of it is down to the olympics followed on closely by sweeps week. that's the same reason NBC rushed Leno out the door 6 months before the official end of his contract, to book end the tonight show handover around the olympics and then sweeps.

Since they knew when the Olympics would be starting, you'd think they could have arranged things so that they would show more than one stinkin' new episode before the break. I can see their wanting to stop on the cliffhanger, but still....
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Super Firebug on February 19, 2014, 04:39:55 AM
Poor Clark Gregg. I wonder how many people say "Tahiti" to him, out of the blue, just to see if he'll say, "It's a magical place."
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: eabrace on March 05, 2014, 03:10:13 AM
Well, at least I feel a little better after looking around on the internet knowing that I'm not the only one trying to figure out what Coulson saw in the Guest House.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: JetFlash on March 05, 2014, 03:20:00 AM
Not a bad episode tonight.

I am thinking
Spoiler for Hidden:
Deathlook
needs a better look though.

I saw it quite clearly, you saw correct.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Kaos Arcanna on March 12, 2014, 01:14:57 AM
Not a bad episode tonight.

I'm wondering if the name of Sif's old lover matched the name of the warrior who was double a Thor from back in an old "Tales of Asgard" story.

Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Mental Maden on March 12, 2014, 08:17:28 PM
I've always liked Clark Gregg's acting as Coulson, but his reactions to all of this serum stuff strikes me as odd, out of character or just bad acting or writing.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Nos482 on March 17, 2014, 02:24:39 PM
In T.A.H.I.T.I. when storming the Guest House the agents shot two guards, one of them named Bob... could that have been a nod towards Hydra?
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Nos482 on March 26, 2014, 10:22:10 PM
There's another theory I have:
The drug's source is a blue humanoid labeled G. H., Marvel has a whole species of blue, but otherwise human-looking aliens.
The Kree, their most prominent member is Captain Marvel...who, in the Ultimate Universe has the civilian name Geheneris Hala´son Mahr Vehl.
Could that be?
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Arcana on March 27, 2014, 12:09:51 AM
There's another theory I have:
The drug's source is a blue humanoid labeled G. H., Marvel has a whole species of blue, but otherwise human-looking aliens.
The Kree, their most prominent member is Captain Marvel...who, in the Ultimate Universe has the civilian name Geheneris Hala´son Mahr Vehl.
Could that be?
Its an interesting theory.  Its a pity the rights to Gah Lak Tus are probably still with Fox through the Silver Surfer and the Fantastic Four, because it would be interesting if the connection between SHIELD and the Kree was connected with the coming of Gah Lak Tus.

It would also be interesting if Agents of SHIELD ventured a little bit into Planetary territory, where Agents explored some of the differences between the Marvel Cinematic Universe and the traditional comic book one where certain fantastic things *didn't* happen in the MCU that did happen in the comic universe because of some change.  I can see certain parallels to SHIELD and The Four, with Coulson's team being analogous the Planetary group, given the current direction of the story.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: FatherXmas on March 27, 2014, 03:49:07 AM
I think the actress who plays Skye confirmed it was a Kree.

Also they've signed Amy Acker to play Phil's "cellist" for an episode.  High five Phil!
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Super Firebug on April 02, 2014, 01:34:10 AM
:rant mode engaged:

Okay, the folks at Marvel need a lesson in terminology, since Hand, in tonight's episode, made the same mistake that Fury made, in talking to Captain America, in "The Avengers".

Before a mission, when you give the mission team the information that you have, and tell them what you think they can expect, that is a BRIEFING. A DEBRIEFING only happens AFTER the mission, when the mission team tell you how the mission actually went, what they saw, etc. It's so that you can figure out how good your intel is.

I'm thoroughly tired of hearing supposedly-professional characters call the PRE-mission meeting a "debriefing" or "debrief". Come on, Hollywood - LEARN SOMETHING about what you're portraying. Learning's really not that scary.

Carry on.

:rant mode disengaged:

(Edited to correct "Avengers" reference.)
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Kaos Arcanna on April 02, 2014, 02:19:18 AM
Tonight's episode wasn't too bad.

Though I think the best part of it was the kid-version of the Captain America Trailer. :D

Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Arcana on April 04, 2014, 06:17:37 PM
:rant mode engaged:

Okay, the folks at Marvel need a lesson in terminology, since Hand, in tonight's episode, made the same mistake that Captain America did in "The Avengers".

Before a mission, when you give the mission team the information that you have, and tell them what you think they can expect, that is a BRIEFING. A DEBRIEFING only happens AFTER the mission, when the mission team tell you how the mission actually went, what they saw, etc. It's so that you can figure out how good your intel is.

I'm thoroughly tired of hearing supposedly-professional characters call the PRE-mission meeting a "debriefing" or "debrief". Come on, Hollywood - LEARN SOMETHING about what you're portraying. Learning's really not that scary.

Carry on.

:rant mode disengaged:

It was de briefing in de briefing room with de Shield agents.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Eoraptor on April 09, 2014, 01:06:45 AM
bu bum bummmmmmmmmmmmm

Spoiler for Hidden:
(though I wonder if he wasn't replaced in the fight scene by one of the conveniently masked underlings)
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Kaos Arcanna on April 09, 2014, 01:24:23 AM

I was thinking
Spoiler for Hidden:
that Ward was given Winter Soldier-like programming and didn't know he was a double agent ... though it would be an impressive move if he turned out to a true Hydra agent all along.

Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: eabrace on April 09, 2014, 01:31:00 AM
That episode did not disappoint.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Super Firebug on April 09, 2014, 04:35:59 AM
I was thinking
Spoiler for Hidden:
that Ward was given Winter Soldier-like programming and didn't know he was a double agent ... though it would be an impressive move if he turned out to a true Hydra agent all along.

That would be a gutsy move on the show's part. For my money,...

Spoiler for Hidden:
I'm betting that Ward was assigned to play double agent in order to find out who Garrett's superiors are within SHIELD.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Arnabas on April 09, 2014, 04:47:56 AM
I'm with Super Firebug. There was a conversation between Ward and Coulson with no audible dialogue.

I think Ward has been sent on a mission by Coulson. The only thing is... How to explain Agent Hand?
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Mental Maden on April 09, 2014, 01:36:05 PM
Spoiler for Hidden:
This article seems to imply he's been one all along.

Spoiler for Hidden:
http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/04/09/agents-of-shield-postmortem-ward/ (http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/04/09/agents-of-shield-postmortem-ward/)
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Nos482 on April 10, 2014, 07:32:49 AM
I'm with Super Firebug. There was a conversation between Ward and Coulson with no audible dialogue.

I think Ward has been sent on a mission by Coulson. The only thing is... How to explain Agent Hand?
Blanks and fake blood? But then again, Coulson didn't seem to be overly fond of Hand anyway.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Arcana on April 10, 2014, 07:58:53 AM
I'm with Super Firebug. There was a conversation between Ward and Coulson with no audible dialogue.

I think Ward has been sent on a mission by Coulson. The only thing is... How to explain Agent Hand?

I'm not sure what to believe, but it does occur to me:

Spoiler for Hidden:
Turn Turn Turn has callbacks to Winter Soldier: the device Fitz uses to escape the plane is similar to the one Agent Hill uses in Winter Soldier.  So if you want to play that game, how to explain Agent Hand? With Nick Fury.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Mental Maden on April 10, 2014, 03:54:12 PM
Blanks and fake blood? But then again, Coulson didn't seem to be overly fond of Hand anyway.

He may not like her because of her terrible acting.  Or is that just me?
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Kaos Arcanna on April 16, 2014, 02:05:02 AM

Hm. Tonight's new episode was pretty good.

Spoiler for Hidden:
It's looking likely that Ward is actually a real traitor so perhaps we'll see him dying off in the season finale. I mean, come on, with Whedon involved, SOMEONE has to die .... ;-)
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Heroette on April 16, 2014, 02:24:58 PM
Complaint and spoiler



Spoiler for Hidden:

I have a complaint about the rerun of "Turn, Turn, Turn" last night.  I was re-watching it with a friend last night and in the first commercial break they showed a commercial for the next episode directly after it.  And they showed that Ward was a traitor right on the commercial and the episode hadn't even ended yet.  So she knew that he was before it happened.  That was a very bad move on ABC's part.  I emailed them and told them I thought so.  They could have ran a "spoiler free" commercial.    End of rant.

And thank you for the help Super Firebug.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Super Firebug on April 16, 2014, 03:57:31 PM
Scalebeast: put [ spoiler ] in front of what you want hidden (with the square brackets, but remove the spaces from inside the brackets), and [ /spoiler ] at the end.

I had to include the spaces so that the system wouldn't treat the middle of the sentence as a spoiler, and hide it. :)
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Alpha Series on April 17, 2014, 01:07:05 AM
I was really hoping somehow it was all an act and Ward was somehow NOT Hydra... But there's not much chance of that being the case. So they gonna have to waste that turkey now. The big question? Who gonna do it, and How? Irony would demand Skye...But with this tangled web, all bets are off and it's anybody's game. Maybe they'll keep him around forever as the permanent protagonist. Kinda like that little jerk Dr. Zoller.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: CG on April 17, 2014, 05:18:54 PM
Spoiler for Hidden:
I think Ward's future depends on his past and why he's with Hydra in the first place.  What is his history with Garrett?

I found it interesting that Garrett wasn't so gung ho as some of his followers.  He seems to be a member of Hydra for reasons other than Nazi-ism, or as a fanatic so perhaps it's just power for it's own sake?  I wonder what he's up to and why he has a partially metal torso.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Eoraptor on April 17, 2014, 06:48:34 PM
Spoiler for Hidden:
Garret seems to be the "out to be on the winning side" "saw which way the wind was blowing" sort of thing.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: GamingGlen on April 17, 2014, 07:53:42 PM
Spoiler for Hidden:
Doesn't Coulson often say the phrase "Whatever it takes."?  Perhaps he told Ward that in that unheard conversation to find out who is the top person in Hydra.  It sure isn't Garrett.  Garrett's motivation could be several things: money, being the top operative agent again, glory, being in charge, or any combination thereof.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Super Firebug on April 18, 2014, 01:14:09 AM
I'm wondering if they (the suits behind the show) might be setting Ward up to be replaced by Triplett, in order to further diversify the cast. If all of this is for PC, I'll be greatly disappointed.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Arcana on April 21, 2014, 08:03:42 PM
Spoiler for Hidden:
I think Ward's future depends on his past and why he's with Hydra in the first place.  What is his history with Garrett?

I found it interesting that Garrett wasn't so gung ho as some of his followers.  He seems to be a member of Hydra for reasons other than Nazi-ism, or as a fanatic so perhaps it's just power for it's own sake?  I wonder what he's up to and why he has a partially metal torso.

Spoiler for Hidden:
I think Garrett is more of a pragmatic, not a fanatic like Pierce was, say.  He believes in Hydra's goals of using force to create an ordered society where the trains run on time and threats can be eliminated with a minimum of unnecessary damage, to the point of being a willing party to totalitarianism.  My guess is that most of the "higher ups" of Hydra tend to be more pragmatic, but the lower level minions tend to be more dogmatic because they were picked specifically for their unquestioning loyalty.  And my guess is that SHIELD itself was probably not too dissimilar, which is what made Hydra so easy to coexist within it.  At the beginning of Agents of SHIELD it was reinforced often that asking questions was discouraged, things were compartmentalized, and following orders blindly was part of the job.  Its only when you get to the higher echelons of SHIELD - or Hydra - that you begin to see all the backstory and secret plotting and machinations and that unquestioning loyalty has to eventually shift to a more pragmatic acceptance.  You could say Garrett's loyalty to Hydra mirrors Coulson's loyalty to SHIELD in the middle episodes of the series.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Eoraptor on April 21, 2014, 09:46:56 PM
an excellent dissection, Arcana. It's often true that sociopaths make the best middle managers. you don't have to be a sociopath to sit at the top, because you're isolated by money and power. but when you're int he middle, you're still within touching distance of the effects of the decisions you make, meaning emotions more often get in the way. best to put someone there who is less likely to let pesky things like sympathy or conscience get in the way of getting the job done.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Eoraptor on April 23, 2014, 01:03:10 AM
my fearless prognostication;

Spoiler for Hidden:
Skye will kill ward, then everyone will think she is Hydra
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: eabrace on April 23, 2014, 01:11:20 AM
Spoiler for Hidden:
Aw.  I was just getting to like Patton Oswalt's character.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Kaos Arcanna on April 23, 2014, 01:23:24 AM
So I was thinking that ...

Spoiler for Hidden:
Why did Skye automatically assume that Ward was the killer? Why wouldn't she assume that there was an intruder on the base?

Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Eoraptor on April 23, 2014, 04:13:44 PM
Spoiler for Hidden:
Aw.  I was just getting to like Patton Oswalt's character.
Same here. :(

So I was thinking that ...

Spoiler for Hidden:
Why did Skye automatically assume that Ward was the killer? Why wouldn't she assume that there was an intruder on the base?
Spoiler for Hidden:
Because the base was like fort knox. and skye is operating on some corallary of Occams razor... its more likely the guy I KNOW is in here with me is a psycho killer than someone snuck in to the highly secured facility and is sneaking around offing paranoid security experts.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Super Firebug on April 23, 2014, 04:18:08 PM
So I was thinking that ...

Spoiler for Hidden:
Why did Skye automatically assume that Ward was the killer? Why wouldn't she assume that there was an intruder on the base?

Spoiler for Hidden:
The blood on Ward that he passed off as a reopened injury, connected with how bloody the corpse was. Also, I don't think an intruder would have left the penny on the door in order to know if someone had found the body. Then, Ward convicted himself by claiming that he had just spoken with Koenig, who was allegedly opening the hangar doors as Ward was collecting Skye. By the time she was on the plane, Ward's guilt was pretty firmly established.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Eoraptor on April 23, 2014, 04:36:47 PM
all of that too
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Kaos Arcanna on April 23, 2014, 09:40:23 PM
Spoiler for Hidden:
The blood on Ward that he passed off as a reopened injury, connected with how bloody the corpse was. Also, I don't think an intruder would have left the penny on the door in order to know if someone had found the body. Then, Ward convicted himself by claiming that he had just spoken with Koenig, who was allegedly opening the hangar doors as Ward was collecting Skye. By the time she was on the plane, Ward's guilt was pretty firmly established.

Spoiler for Hidden:
By the time she was on the plane, yeah ... but it still seemed to me that she bought his guilt a little too soon.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Kaos Arcanna on May 08, 2014, 02:20:10 AM
So what did everyone think of last night's show?

I think they're doing pretty well now, and the Hydra Reveal from Winter Soldier has given the show a shot in the arm.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Blondeshell on May 08, 2014, 04:01:33 AM
+1 for the "file transfer." :)

In general, the show has come a long way from its slow beginning. Having the integration with CA:TWS (and Thor 2) has only given it that much more clout, in my eyes. I can't recall another movie/TV show relationship that has been so closely knit.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Eoraptor on May 08, 2014, 05:48:37 AM
yes, the file transfer was golden...

and the show is finally locked itself down into being a real series with a real plot of its own, rather than just "that show about c list marvel call-outs for the hardcore nerds"
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Arcana on May 08, 2014, 05:43:22 PM
+1 for the "file transfer." :)

In general, the show has come a long way from its slow beginning. Having the integration with CA:TWS (and Thor 2) has only given it that much more clout, in my eyes. I can't recall another movie/TV show relationship that has been so closely knit.

I think for me its more that it seems they had to hold back a lot until the Winter Soldier came out to prevent spoilers, but now they're free to run with everything they have the series seems more energized.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: FatherXmas on May 09, 2014, 05:26:11 AM
"Prepare for a large file transfer" ranks up there with the previous week's "what is a Man-Thing?" in terms of good quotes go.  Of course the sight gag that follows is priceless.

Still the superhero show quote of the week goes to Arrow who had Summer Glau's supervillain monologing about how she's going to kill Felicity to Diggle only to get nailed by the van Felicity was driving.

"Oh, I really thought the airbags were going to go off."
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: doc7924 on May 09, 2014, 11:43:56 PM
"Prepare for a large file transfer" ranks up there with the previous week's "what is a Man-Thing?" in terms of good quotes go.  Of course the sight gag that follows is priceless.

Still the superhero show quote of the week goes to Arrow who had Summer Glau's supervillain monologing about how she's going to kill Felicity to Diggle only to get nailed by the van Felicity was driving.

"Oh, I really thought the airbags were going to go off."

The "file transfer" comment had my laughing a good 5 mins after it happened.
Great show so far. I hope it gets a 2nd season - I would hate it to be like many shows that set up a great story arc and then we never see how it finishes.

Like Flash Forward - loved the whole concept and the series - they set up a lot of nice things to continue the story with the last episode - and it got cancelled.


Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Heroette on May 10, 2014, 12:05:35 AM
I, too, was disappointed when Flash Forward got cancelled.  It seems that the really cool shows don't make a second season.   I also liked "The Event" and that got cancelled too.   I think though that Agents of Shield was renewed.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Blondeshell on May 10, 2014, 01:05:33 AM
I think though that Agents of Shield was renewed.

Confirmed this afternoon, actually. As well as announcing another Marvel series.

Link (http://tv.msn.com/tv/article.aspx?news=866411&ocid=ansent11)
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: doc7924 on May 11, 2014, 03:24:53 AM
Confirmed this afternoon, actually. As well as announcing another Marvel series.

Link (http://tv.msn.com/tv/article.aspx?news=866411&ocid=ansent11)

Very cool.

Agents is one of my favorite shows right now and I would have hated to not see how this whole Hydra thing plays out.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Harpospoke on May 11, 2014, 07:38:57 AM
This show is good now.   Thank you Captain America 2.

But they still can't quite seem to get why it sucked before.   I noticed they had to put in a scene where Skye and Fitz couldn't resist pressing buttons and acting a lot like Jar Jar Binks when a box of weapons was presented to them.   "Hilarity" ensued.   :roll:

Seriously?  They can't see that stuff like that was part of the problem before?
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Eoraptor on May 11, 2014, 03:41:15 PM
This show is good now.   Thank you Captain America 2.

But they still can't quite seem to get why it sucked before.   I noticed they had to put in a scene where Skye and Fitz couldn't resist pressing buttons and acting a lot like Jar Jar Binks when a box of weapons was presented to them.   "Hilarity" ensued.   :roll:

Seriously?  They can't see that stuff like that was part of the problem before?
I'm willing to take a moment like that every now and again. Every dark fiction has to have light moments to break up the unrelenting grimdark. the problem before was that they were cramming those into every single episode, and often letting them drag on too long. it became less a part of the pacing and more a part of  bad formula. Hopefully now that Cap is out of the way and no more main-line movies they can tie into will be coming down the pipes till at least next year (not much they can do to tie into ooga chaka) they can settle into better writing and less "drag it out till cap2 gets here"
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: FatherXmas on May 12, 2014, 11:05:51 AM
“Make it dark, make it grim, make it tough, but then, for the love of God, tell a joke.” - Joss Whedon
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Harpospoke on May 12, 2014, 06:29:50 PM
“Make it dark, make it grim, make it tough, but then, for the love of God, tell a joke.” - Joss Whedon
I agree...but can't it be done with intelligence?   

Having team members act like 6 year old kids with new toys and almost destroying the room sounds like a bad Disney TV show to me.

An example of what I mean is how a "fart joke" was handled in Finding Nemo.    There was a big explosion under water with the subs and it caused one bubble to pop up between those two birds.  One looked at the other with disdain.   Contrast that with how a "fart joke" goes in a Shrek movie.   Shrek farts...end of joke.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Arcana on May 13, 2014, 05:53:31 AM
I, too, was disappointed when Flash Forward got cancelled.  It seems that the really cool shows don't make a second season.   I also liked "The Event" and that got cancelled too.   I think though that Agents of Shield was renewed.

I predicted both shows would be canceled, because both were constructed based on a false premise: that audiences still wanted to watch shows that dangled "mysteries" in front of them that were really just annoying teasers.  Lost really burned a lot of people not because of its controversial ending itself but because the writers explicitly promised that there were answers to all of the in-show mysteries and they would all be revealed, and then they reneged on that promise without any remorse, going so far as to tell the fans that they missed the point if they wanted those answers.  Battlestar Galactica did the same thing, explicitly telling its audience that they had a grand plan for the show when they later admitted (and people figured out anyway) that they were just making it up as they were going along.  Nobody trusts television writers anymore, and they are right to not trust them.

You can have mysteries and long-term plots, but you have to prove to the audience there really is a grand plan by letting them in on it periodically, and showing the level of consistency and direction you can only get when you actually have that plan.  Flash Forward had a cool concept but they refused to go anywhere, and of course they couldn't use the book ending.  They played with the concept but didn't really delve into it enough in my opinion, and that's what made it less compelling to general audiences.  The Event even more blatantly attempted to exploit the notion of filling an entire armory of Chekov's Guns and never really firing them.  Plus, its disjointed narrative really hurt in the critical first few episodes.

Interesting to note that Agents of Shield follows the ratings trajectory of Flash Forward fairly closely.  I like the show personally and I think because its part of the Marvel Cinematic Universe it has some advantages in getting and staying on the air, but it really does need to create a solid identity for itself that isn't reliant on waiting for MCU movies to release to avoid spoilers.  In my opinion, they need to make the characters more compelling by giving them more interesting stories, maybe by shifting to multi-episode arcs more strongly in the second season.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Eoraptor on May 13, 2014, 04:40:38 PM
You make some very valid points Arcana. Lost got... lost... so to speak, because they renewed the show en masse for three years at one point; and suddenly the writers had all this space to fill up and the carefully planned plot points they had went out the window in the scramble for new material. Galactica? Yeah... Syfy saw they had a hit with the BSG04 movie and rushed to press with the series before they actually had any plans, and then never even made an attempt to catch up or plot out beyond a few episodes at a time. (then promptly did the same thing again with stargate universe, which was just BSG with gates)

I think AOS has a better shot. Now that we've seen the entire first season, it becomes clear that most of it was a waiting game, filling space between its launch and the premier of Cap2, to which it was intrinsically tied. The writing and production staff now has an opportunity to move out of the place-holding mode and into writing plots actually ABOUT the Agents of SHIELD and their exploits with the occasional Marvel universe tie-in instead of doing it the other way around as they have been.

What remains to be seen is if they will take that opportunity, or if they will let Disney and ABC continue to dictate the plotting. If they can have a few strong directors and producers go to bat with them against the suits, they have a shot to turn it into the next TNG or Xfiles. If not, season two may not make a full run even.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Kaos Arcanna on May 14, 2014, 01:01:41 AM
I think the season finale was pretty good...


Spoiler for Hidden:
I just hope we see Fitz again, and something tells me that Ward will show up again as well.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: doc7924 on May 14, 2014, 02:09:31 AM
I think the season finale was pretty good...


Spoiler for Hidden:
I just hope we see Fitz again, and something tells me that Ward will show up again as well.

Yes. And was set up pretty good for the next season. Loved the whole Coulson finding the gun bit. Had me LOL for a good 5 mins.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: GamingGlen on May 14, 2014, 03:48:22 AM
I think the season finale was pretty good...


Spoiler for Hidden:
I just hope we see Fitz again, and something tells me that Ward will show up again as well.

I dunno...

Spoiler for Hidden:
They went PC on us, turning the special operative white guy into the special operative black guy.  So what ethnicity are we missing they'll replace Fitz with?
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Arcana on May 14, 2014, 09:18:58 AM
I dunno...

Spoiler for Hidden:
They went PC on us, turning the special operative white guy into the special operative black guy.  So what ethnicity are we missing they'll replace Fitz with?

Spoiler for Hidden:
Hmm... Native American?  He could become the team tracker.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: GamingGlen on May 14, 2014, 01:07:54 PM
Spoiler for Hidden:
Hmm... Native American?  He could become the team tracker.

Hah!  Stereotype much?   ;)   Although, Fitz did that task with his little drones.

Spoiler for Hidden:
Maybe they'll replace Fitz with a French person, to be annoying to everyone, especially Simmons and including the viewers  :). Can't have one big happy family.  Or, a German person to antagonize Simmons.  Maybe another muscular guy will join to flex some muscle for Simmons and Skye to fight over.  Wait, I got it  A Russian will be added with a secret agenda.  All Russians have secret agendas, right?
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: BadWolf on May 14, 2014, 06:30:38 PM
I predicted both shows would be canceled, because both were constructed based on a false premise: that audiences still wanted to watch shows that dangled "mysteries" in front of them that were really just annoying teasers.  Lost really burned a lot of people not because of its controversial ending itself but because the writers explicitly promised that there were answers to all of the in-show mysteries and they would all be revealed, and then they reneged on that promise without any remorse, going so far as to tell the fans that they missed the point if they wanted those answers.  Battlestar Galactica did the same thing, explicitly telling its audience that they had a grand plan for the show when they later admitted (and people figured out anyway) that they were just making it up as they were going along.  Nobody trusts television writers anymore, and they are right to not trust them.

That was one of the things I really liked about this season: A lot of the mysteries teased in the first episode (Who are Centipede? How/why is Coulson back from the dead?) are now answered and resolved instead of left dangling. And there are new mysteries, but I've got a lot more confidence that those will have answers because of the answers we've already gotten.

For my money, I adored the season finale. Great fights, great resolutions (although there was one Chekhov's Gun moment that never got fired, see below) and just generally satisfying. And I'm looking forward to Season Two. And to "Agent Carter", which I'm really hoping will feature all that vintage SHIELD equipment as "the latest models".

(And for the record, I don't think that Trip replacing Ward was "PC". I think that once Ward went dark, they needed a replacement...and why not make it someone non-white? Arguing that any non-white male casting choice is just done to be "PC" is pretty much a perfect example of why pushing for more diversity in casting is still necessary.)

Spoilers for the Chekhov's Gun...

Spoiler for Hidden:
When they announced that every supersoldier was converging on Garrett's location...and that all of them would explode if given orders by anyone other than their designated handler...I was expecting a finale where Garrett was done in by his own troops turning into human bombs. I'm glad they didn't, in retrospect, because the "incentives program" made it clear that most of those men were being coerced and it would have been awkward at best if the "good guys" had murdered them all, but really, how can you mention that a couple dozen human bombs are heading directly towards the villains without getting people excited about a big explodey ending?
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: mrultimate on May 14, 2014, 10:34:12 PM
I don't think Trip replacing Ward was a PC move at all. I find Trip quite interesting and hope that his Grandfather makes appearances in Agent Carter. That would be pretty cool.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: Arcana on May 15, 2014, 05:43:16 AM
Spoilers for the Chekhov's Gun...

Spoiler for Hidden:
When they announced that every supersoldier was converging on Garrett's location...and that all of them would explode if given orders by anyone other than their designated handler...I was expecting a finale where Garrett was done in by his own troops turning into human bombs. I'm glad they didn't, in retrospect, because the "incentives program" made it clear that most of those men were being coerced and it would have been awkward at best if the "good guys" had murdered them all, but really, how can you mention that a couple dozen human bombs are heading directly towards the villains without getting people excited about a big explodey ending?

I thought exactly the same thought.
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: FatherXmas on May 15, 2014, 11:26:57 AM
I dunno...

Spoiler for Hidden:
They went PC on us, turning the special operative white guy into the special operative black guy.  So what ethnicity are we missing they'll replace Fitz with?

Spoiler for Hidden:
Canadian
Title: Re: Agents of Shield
Post by: FatherXmas on May 15, 2014, 11:28:56 AM
I thought exactly the same thought.

Same here.