Author Topic: Valiance Online Kickstarter Starts....TODAY!  (Read 34171 times)

Burnt Toast

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Re: Valiance Online Kickstarter Starts....TODAY!
« Reply #20 on: November 03, 2014, 07:14:13 AM »
I like the graph... makes things much easier :)


I'm not trying to be pessimistic, but I am a tad worried at the rate of the KS funds being pledged :(


Are you guys reaching out to any media to make more people aware?? Think it's kinda sad one KS skyrocketed while this one with more to show... is not doing nearly as well. I would think more of the CoH community would be standing behind the successor projects... or maybe the remaining community is nowhere as large as we have been led to believe. This lackluster support would make me nervous if I were invested in the resurgence of CoH or any other hero project for that matter.


Wishing you the best... I truly cannot wait to see the finished project! :) In the meantime I am anxiously awaiting more in depth updates on the KS page! :)

Chance-VO

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Re: Valiance Online Kickstarter Starts....TODAY!
« Reply #21 on: November 03, 2014, 07:43:01 AM »
I like the graph... makes things much easier :)

I thought so too. That's why I pulled a guy off of working on other things to make it with me (his Excel-fu is strong) ;)

Are you guys reaching out to any media to make more people aware?? Think it's kinda sad one KS skyrocketed while this one with more to show... is not doing nearly as well.

We've a few interviews lined up left to do along with postings on MMORPG.com and Massively. We're negotiating with IGN as well. We're reaching about as far as we can, but we're hoping that everyone else can lend a hand in that area too. As for the KS not skyrocketing, we actually expected that. The perceptions about who we our and our project as well as the state of interaction between the three is...muddled at best. Some people are simply staunch supporters of one and not the other, or have burned out on the idea as a whole.

Or they're just waiting for CoH to return. That's what I've gathered thus far.

Wishing you the best... I truly cannot wait to see the finished project! :) In the meantime I am anxiously awaiting more in depth updates on the KS page! :)

Thanks! I'm going to have to put the hammer to the studio execs on those updates ;)

mrultimate

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Re: Valiance Online Kickstarter Starts....TODAY!
« Reply #22 on: November 03, 2014, 02:52:28 PM »
Chance

Thanks for the graph! It really does help to see what you are offering at each level. I really thought the lat pass debugging video was a great show of what y'all are aiming for. Like BT I'm concerned about the lack of support y'all are receiving. Do you have a backup plan for us to help fund you if the KS doesn't hit the goal?

Chance-VO

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Re: Valiance Online Kickstarter Starts....TODAY!
« Reply #23 on: November 03, 2014, 04:05:25 PM »
Do you have a backup plan for us to help fund you if the KS doesn't hit the goal?

No real backup plan as far as funding goes. We'll just have to nickle and dime our way along to get it done, though it will likely wind up taking more than the year we've planned for to complete it.

Burnt Toast

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Re: Valiance Online Kickstarter Starts....TODAY!
« Reply #24 on: November 03, 2014, 07:40:06 PM »
Yeah I am disappointed in the number of donations so far...and I truly hope it gets backed so it can be online/finished ASAP. I don't think people realize that IF (Heaven forbid) the deal falls through with NCSoft and we don't get the IP this round etc... it's going to be awhile before another serious attempt at the IP gets this far...and in the meantime we will still have nothing to play. This is one of the main reasons I support VO...it's already in a Pre-Alpha stage and it's done that with no crowd funding whatsoever. Hoping the community pulls through and gets this project funded....

Drauger9

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Re: Valiance Online Kickstarter Starts....TODAY!
« Reply #25 on: November 03, 2014, 08:57:27 PM »
I think the slow start is because the kickstarter hit right before Halloween. Most people are broke right now. Having spent most of their money on costumes, decorations ect...

So hopefully the numbers will go up by next week. Sadly, I wont be able to donate this week :(. My dad got sick and missed some work, so my extra money will be going to help with bills. Hopefully I'll be able to donate next pay check. :(

*Edited to add: But since I have to wait longer to donate, I'm going to try to donate more.*

Matt Bold

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Re: Valiance Online Kickstarter Starts....TODAY!
« Reply #26 on: November 04, 2014, 06:08:40 PM »
I have to say I am very disappointed by the lack of the community surrounding valiance online.  Espeically when it has showed way more progress than everyone else.

Personally, I have way more faith in this than any of the other successor projects.  Was there some bad blood or something that nobody wants to support them?

However, I do have a few quips that I think would help the game.

-Art Style/Logo/Name.  Right now, if I didn't know anything about it, i would have never guessed it was a superhero mmo in a million years.    It looks like a gritty run of the mill post apocalyptic survival horror third person shooter.

-The website.  It is terribly outdated and needs reworking on all fronts.  The layout, design, and even the functionality are all broken.  The community for this game is even fragmented in itself.

-Timing and content of the kickstarter.  When there's not a lot of support surrounding the game in general, why would you choose to hold a kickstarter?  Additionally, why would you hold it in late october/november?  As for the content, why on earth would you show old footage of the game opposed to your newer, better videos, art, and screenshots?

Chance-VO

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Re: Valiance Online Kickstarter Starts....TODAY!
« Reply #27 on: November 04, 2014, 06:53:09 PM »
I have to say I am very disappointed by the lack of the community surrounding valiance online.  Espeically when it has showed way more progress than everyone else.

Personally, I have way more faith in this than any of the other successor projects.  Was there some bad blood or something that nobody wants to support them?

Not bad blood in particular, just lots of misunderstanding that I've noticed about who we are, what we're doing, why we're doing it. A lot of that comes from the fact that we didn't much control the rumor mill in the beginning, we were busy making what we have of the game now. So, we're behind the curve on the rumor mill (much of which has been negative). Add to that the belief in only 'one true successor'...

-Art Style/Logo/Name.  Right now, if I didn't know anything about it, i would have never guessed it was a superhero mmo in a million years.    It looks like a gritty run of the mill post apocalyptic survival horror third person shooter.

A little peek behind the development curtain here; The project was originally started with a different Design Director who was more keen on the post-apoc/cyberpunk/grimdark side of things, and so that was the direction the game was originally headed in. Silverhelm trademarked the metal/black/red logo and forged on ahead with the project. This would have been the version most people saw around a year ago.

There were some creative differences and that Design Director left and the seat was vacated for a small period of time; during which I was brought on board as a writer. Silly me, I go poking around, asking about systems, design goals, vision, things of that nature and get made the new Design Director. We add a few more very talented people to the team and start cranking out the newer, brighter style, but the logo remains.

All of that goes to say, we've basically run out of funds and cannot afford to trademark a new logo ($500-$1000 depending on who you ask). Though that is one of the things I do plan to change immediately once the funding is available (assuming we reach our goal).

-The website.  It is terribly outdated and needs reworking on all fronts.  The layout, design, and even the functionality are all broken.

This has been a point of contention with me in particular. We've been trying to get changes to the site made, but our contractor is dragging his feet on them despite my urgent insisting. See previous for solution (and you can check www.valianceonline.com for a mockup of the way I would prefer the site to look (though it's a fight I cannot get in to just yet).


-Timing and content of the kickstarter.  When there's not a lot of support surrounding the game in general, why would you choose to hold a kickstarter?  Additionally, why would you hold it in late october/november?  As for the content, why on earth would you show old footage of the game opposed to your newer, better videos, art, and screenshots?

Essentially, money has run thin between the people involved in the project. We can continue, though the pace will be considerably slowed and delayed. In truth, we should have waited for another 6 months before launching it, but we've just flat run out of time.

As for the old footage, we had a video production guy lined up, I recorded the voice over for the video which was supposed to be most of our recent stuff, but it fell through so we had to scramble for footage at the last minute. It's also part of the reason we're cranking out videos on our Facebook site, but I don't think it's helping too much.

Matt Bold

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Re: Valiance Online Kickstarter Starts....TODAY!
« Reply #28 on: November 04, 2014, 07:51:42 PM »
Thanks for the responses!

Sorry if I offended you on anything.  I just really want this to succeed. 

The new website  is looking way better than old one.  If I could add anything it would just be to "Make it brighter".

Can you expand on the rumor mill thing?  I actually never heard anything, good or bad, regarding VO aside from a few replies to threads on the titan forums saying "Oh by the way, VO is another project in the works that is not getting a lot of attention"

I think it was a great decision to move away from the dark and gritty look.  That market is very saturated with bad games at the moment and all look like fallout knockoffs.

If I had one other thing to add, is that the community you do have is fragmented.  Relying on facebook and not maintaining the website is very confusing(as well as bad SEO).  Somebody stumbling across your website will think there has been no activity since your last posts, which at this point was in September.  Given that you have a kickstarter going right now this issue can be devastating.

 I would really like to be a part of your community but right now I have no idea if I should be active on your facebook or your website.  There is no place where I can find the most up to date information *easily*.  If I wanted to learn more about the project I would have to scroll though all of your facebook posts, many of which are fillers.

That being said.  I am having some devastating financial issues but I will do what I can to support your kickstarter.

Chance-VO

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Re: Valiance Online Kickstarter Starts....TODAY!
« Reply #29 on: November 04, 2014, 09:19:38 PM »
Thanks for the responses!

Welcome :) I do these sorts of things to talk to people.

Sorry if I offended you on anything.  I just really want this to succeed. 

No offense taken  8) Sorry if I came off as defensive, I'm just protective of this project and my team, who have been on the whole amazing thus far and I'm not expecting that to change ever. :)

The new website  is looking way better than old one.  If I could add anything it would just be to "Make it brighter".

That's not a finalized form of the website, I hadn't properly gotten many things added to it, let alone art assets created for it. I was planning on continuing with the duality present in our game to spread to the logo and gradients on the solid block background.

Can you expand on the rumor mill thing?  I actually never heard anything, good or bad, regarding VO aside from a few replies to threads on the titan forums saying "Oh by the way, VO is another project in the works that is not getting a lot of attention"

Some of the things I've seen written were things like; we're a studio that glommed on to the fact that CoH vanished and thus there was this ready-made fan base for us to 'take advantage of'. Which is wrong in every possible fashion. We're a group of CoH fans and players that loved the game who joined up with a 'studio' to leverage the tech -they- had available to make our game.  And by 'studio' Silverhelm is not a space with an office, it's more a pool of developers working on independent projects out of our houses that freely pass resources back and forth to get these projects complete.

I think it was a great decision to move away from the dark and gritty look.  That market is very saturated with bad games at the moment and all look like fallout knockoffs.

Grimdark is so 90's, don't they know that Cali sun is the new darkened alleyway? ;)

If I had one other thing to add, is that the community you do have is fragmented.  Relying on facebook and not maintaining the website is very confusing(as well as bad SEO).  Somebody stumbling across your website will think there has been no activity since your last posts, which at this point was in September.  Given that you have a kickstarter going right now this issue can be devastating.

Actually the forums have been fairly active lately but that's been in the areas of our pre-alpha. The front page is tied into the issue of the website design, but I'm not expecting that to be a problem for much longer. I can't go any further into detail on that however.

As ever, I appreciate the feedback and the questions :)

« Last Edit: November 04, 2014, 10:27:59 PM by Chance-VO »

Kaos Arcanna

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Re: Valiance Online Kickstarter Starts....TODAY!
« Reply #30 on: November 04, 2014, 10:45:20 PM »
Okay.

In for $1000.00.

 :D


Chance-VO

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Re: Valiance Online Kickstarter Starts....TODAY!
« Reply #31 on: November 04, 2014, 10:50:06 PM »
Okay.

In for $1000.00.

 :D

Awesome :D Very much appreciated and look forward to your future hologram-statue ;)

Without_Pause

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Re: Valiance Online Kickstarter Starts....TODAY!
« Reply #32 on: November 05, 2014, 06:16:05 AM »
I'm not trying to be pessimistic, but I am a tad worried at the rate of the KS funds being pledged :(

Merely one person's view point, so don't read too much into it.

1. The CoH community isn't going to gladly back any and every project that comes along. There's hardly room for the superhero MMOs we have now as I don't think CO or DCUO are doing particularly well. Right now my preferred superhero game is Marvel Online. Adding three more to the mix isn't really helping.

3. VO never felt like they were part of the CoH community even if they played the game. MWM is very much part of the CoH community and rode that to success as part of their KS campaign. Even now, one of their own is behind the talks with NCSoft in regards to getting CoH running on some level. Let's be honest, if CoH never left, the team behind VO would still be working on their original idea for a game which wasn't a superhero game.

3. The early bird gets the worm. MWM was there before the others even if they had less of a project. MWM did a great job in building up the press to help fuel the funding. VO is still working on it while the clock is ticking. A KS has to hit the ground running. VO hasn't felt like that.

4. The people behind VO don't want part in the CoH deal. The game seems to be adding stuff in to further separate the game from CoH. So why on God's green Earth do you make the game look so much like CoH? There's flat out copy/paste level of stuff going on to where if I'm Cryptic I'm watching with one eye on the project and a ban hammer in hand. In some cases players are stuck in long animations that I have zero desire to recreate after playing CoH for years. If you are going to be different, be different. There is sooo much room for a new superhero MMO to come along and be distinct and good. It's nice they enjoyed playing CoH, but the people already have their spiritual successor in CoT, give them something else.

5. This all should be a great big warning label for GG's group who I think will have the biggest climb towards seeing the light of day.

Aggelakis

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Re: Valiance Online Kickstarter Starts....TODAY!
« Reply #33 on: November 05, 2014, 07:50:42 AM »
4. Cryptic doesn't care. They don't have the CoH IP any more. They own the original version of the engine, but it's been fiddled with and upgraded so much since the original lease of it that it's barely the same beast anymore. I think you mean NCsoft.
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Aviticus Gladius

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Re: Valiance Online Kickstarter Starts....TODAY!
« Reply #34 on: November 05, 2014, 08:05:40 AM »
Due to the nature of Without_Pause's response, I find myself required, once again to clarify the elements surrounding the existence of Valiance Online, and the other project that share a parallel development structure.

I've worked on my game, Legends of Etherell, for 5 years as of August 11th of this year. My friend and business partner worked on his project for around 3-4 years at the time of our partnering. We were essentially working separately, but developing our projects along the same guidelines. So we decided to form a mutual partnership in an effort to pool our resources to ease the burden of development for both our teams. We then began sharing our assets, he and his wife assisted me with coding, and granted my team access to their code-base, I in return offered the same thing as well as access to my artists, coders, and sound designers. We've worked together for the last 2 years developing our tech/games together, and are still doing so now.

Both games are still well into development though I've had a media blackout on mine who getting ready for a big media blitz in December with a huge announcement. Neither product has faced any unexpected setbacks. My game is indeed a fantasy game, but that has absolutely nothing to do with the MMO tech it utilizes. At it's core is a foundation built around many development parameters/principles inspired directly by City of Heroes. My game's leveling system features what is called a BREAKOUT, the ability to opening up an individual attack, to level up individual properties of the attack. The entire idea was inspired by me love for CoH's enhancement system. So ultimately, a fantasy game is carrying forward seeds laid by CoH regardless of it's genre.

When City of Heroes closed, I lost an important part of what inspired me, and I formed the Valiance team to work on a successor. However, this was done only after reaching out to other spiritual-successors, and that's something I have on record. They decided not to use the tech, so when nobody else would use the tech, I found a group of developers that were interested in it. I've been programming for 20 years now, I've worked for various companies on applications based around network solutions, network security, advance aeronautical solutions, and I know what it takes to make applications with features as complicated and intricate as an MMO. My intentions were to provide a helping hand to a group of prospective developers to assist the, in completion of a spiritual successor.

I worked for a company that secured 7 million dollars in funding to develop an MMO, and they recently cancelled the project after 4 years of development do to financial shortcomings. After combining all our documented work hours across the last 8-9 years of combined coding, the coding side of our MMO tech alone is worth well over a million dollars, had we all been paid our standard fair for hours spent. This is no easy feat, and I offered the Valiance team the most valuable thing a prospect MMO dev-team could be offered, and asked only that they remain true to the spirit of the game. I've worked my day-job, come home and spent 12 hours coding for them; sometimes even before my own game. I haven't asked for a dime and they can account for that. They recently even offered to pass along some financing to me for all the help I've provided; money which I attempted to turn down repeatedly. They firmly insisted that I take it, until I finally acknowledged their want to give to me as I have done to them.

Valiance is a genuine product, and it stands now as a genuine product. Everyone one is entitled to their opinion, and that's something we embrace and encourage. But we'll continue towards our release, and that's something that won't change. Much like with sports, there are those that will choose their team. We love and accept that, and hope to see more people give Valiance a chance in the future. I've seen a lot of people refer to Valiance as a reskinned fantasy game, and that's great... I laugh every time I hear it. I mean... Counter-Strike and Team Fortress were "Half-life Reskins"; turned out really great for them. I mean... these reskinned helped finance one the biggest game publishers of this era. Haha, those reskins, gotta love 'em! Or you could say each new Call of Duty is a reskin of last year's release, it's been working out great for them it appears. Starting from scratch when developing a single-player game is hard. Starting from scratch on an MMO (without millions of dollars on tap) is considered madness in the eyes of those that know the road. When you can make an actual game with a proven, and tested tech in a few years, there is no real reason to start from nothing. Valiance has basically shaved 60%-70% percent of its development cost off by using the tech, and that's an enormous advantage that has already paid off for their team.

So please continue to cheer for your team as you desire. Never let it be said that the Valiance team discouraged anyone's freedom to support any of the other successor, because we've never done such a thing. One thing that can be said is that the game has already achieved a level of success that few indie MMOs have, and it will continue to do so. Keep in mind that long before Kickstarter, games were being created and published without crowdfunding. This supports an idea that says Kickstarter doesn't dictate a product's potential to succeed.

Burnt Toast

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Re: Valiance Online Kickstarter Starts....TODAY!
« Reply #35 on: November 05, 2014, 06:02:57 PM »

1. So far the CoH community has only been asked to back two projects...H&V is not asking for anything...yet. Hardly room for the superhero MMOs we have now? Uhmm I tried DCUO, CO, and even MUO... no thanks. I want something like CoH...which is what all three successor projects are offering. Adding more to the mix will probably kill CO and DCUO...which is not a loss in my opinion.


2. I get that you don't support/like VO...your prior posts indicate that very well. I am more likely to support a KS if they actually have something to show...which is why I support VO.


3. VO doesn't feel like part of the community?? LOL Uhmm it's made up mostly of former CoH players...not sure what you mean by this statement. I think you mean they don't feel like part of the Titan community maybe? I'm fine with them not spamming the Titan boards and remaining low key...unlike other projects which at times bombarded these forums. Your comment is very degrading to the VO team's passion for CoH.... Whatever happened to the "amazing" community that supported their players?? The VO team are former residents of Paragon who lost their home...just like you...and what are they trying to do...give you back a place you can call home... just saying.


4. FYI ... NONE of the Plan Z (VO, CoT, and H&V) projects want to be part of the CoH deal (If by that you mean able to use the CoH IP). Why are they making it look like CoH?? The same reason the other projects are...to appeal to former players of CoH... hence why it's called a spiritual successor project. I have not seen any of the copy/paste stuff you speak of.... You do realize that VO is in PRE-ALPHA stage right?? It's nowhere near a beta stage and many things..animations..animation times..etc etc are going to change as the game progresses closer to a beta stage. There is plenty of room in the MMO market for another 3 super hero games...so your statement for them to do something else...well seems absurd. VO was actually the first spiritual successor and is farthest along in production so maybe you should tell the other successors to do something different (Because that makes as much sense as you telling VO and H&V to do that).


5. If VO's kickstarter succeeds or fails... that will have no impact on H&V... H&V has it's own pros/cons just like all of the Plan Z projects.

Merely one person's view point, so don't read too much into it.

1. The CoH community isn't going to gladly back any and every project that comes along. There's hardly room for the superhero MMOs we have now as I don't think CO or DCUO are doing particularly well. Right now my preferred superhero game is Marvel Online. Adding three more to the mix isn't really helping.

3. VO never felt like they were part of the CoH community even if they played the game. MWM is very much part of the CoH community and rode that to success as part of their KS campaign. Even now, one of their own is behind the talks with NCSoft in regards to getting CoH running on some level. Let's be honest, if CoH never left, the team behind VO would still be working on their original idea for a game which wasn't a superhero game.

3. The early bird gets the worm. MWM was there before the others even if they had less of a project. MWM did a great job in building up the press to help fuel the funding. VO is still working on it while the clock is ticking. A KS has to hit the ground running. VO hasn't felt like that.

4. The people behind VO don't want part in the CoH deal. The game seems to be adding stuff in to further separate the game from CoH. So why on God's green Earth do you make the game look so much like CoH? There's flat out copy/paste level of stuff going on to where if I'm Cryptic I'm watching with one eye on the project and a ban hammer in hand. In some cases players are stuck in long animations that I have zero desire to recreate after playing CoH for years. If you are going to be different, be different. There is sooo much room for a new superhero MMO to come along and be distinct and good. It's nice they enjoyed playing CoH, but the people already have their spiritual successor in CoT, give them something else.

5. This all should be a great big warning label for GG's group who I think will have the biggest climb towards seeing the light of day.

Drauger9

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Re: Valiance Online Kickstarter Starts....TODAY!
« Reply #36 on: November 05, 2014, 10:11:15 PM »
No room for many superhereo MMOs?

I doubt that, you have to think, people exspecially us CoHers. Expect a lot from their games and when you add to that, the fact that we're going to expect these games to be atleast somewhat similar to CoH.

I say the more the merrier, What if CoT doesn't meet your expectations? What if it doesn't even get completed?

I say, back all project, more so for the one you like the most.

I'm not going to speak on the whole Valiance isn't a part of the CoH community blah blah blah.

Because they have what looks like an MM powerset in their game so I'm biased. :P


Kaos Arcanna

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Re: Valiance Online Kickstarter Starts....TODAY!
« Reply #37 on: November 05, 2014, 10:14:39 PM »
Awesome :D Very much appreciated and look forward to your future hologram-statue ;)

Me too. :D

KennonGL

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Re: Valiance Online Kickstarter Starts....TODAY!
« Reply #38 on: November 06, 2014, 03:08:05 PM »
I'm a little curious about how you setup the support tiers.  They seem a bit odd to me.

Typically, I would expect that (with the possible exception of the "limited item" tiers),
that each tier would contain all the incentive rewards of all of the lower tiers.

What you put together seems to jump around a lot, with higher tiers actually missing things
from the lower tiers.

In the end, it doesn't really matter to me as I pledged as much as I reasonably could, but I'm curious.

Chance-VO

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Re: Valiance Online Kickstarter Starts....TODAY!
« Reply #39 on: November 06, 2014, 03:53:59 PM »
I'm a little curious about how you setup the support tiers.  They seem a bit odd to me.

Typically, I would expect that (with the possible exception of the "limited item" tiers),
that each tier would contain all the incentive rewards of all of the lower tiers.

What you put together seems to jump around a lot, with higher tiers actually missing things
from the lower tiers.

In the end, it doesn't really matter to me as I pledged as much as I reasonably could, but I'm curious.

This is the result of a 2-fold problem. There are lots of unique-to-tier rewards in there because our initial plan wasn't to do the 'each level builds on the previous one' part. After we made that call we spent the majority of our time focusing on the main body of the page to make sure it came out right. It was only after we launched that we realized what we had put together made no sense, so we went back and edited it in the form of the chart that was released.

So, this is a handy lesson for other indy games..Don't skip out on the marketing department, because writers, artists, and programmers are terrible at that job :P