Author Topic: to Defend or Corrupt?  (Read 4797 times)

Ankhammon

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to Defend or Corrupt?
« on: November 26, 2014, 06:43:27 PM »
Back at the end of the world one of the characters I was having a lot of fun with was a Time/Ice Defender. Lot's of play in melee and thinking I was a tank/scrapper/brute. To the point that I would occasionally pull agro from the tanks (dunno if they were bad or my procs were just that awesome).
Since it was close to the end and I had several projects going, I never finished him. So, I was thinking that would be a good character to make if/when.

Was looking at the build and wondered if an Ice/Time corrupter would be better. To that end, I worked over both builds in mids and am left confused.

I wanted to get some input from all of you professionals on the two builds I have in mind and tell me which you would want to play. FYI, I am a very aggressive player and as such find myself in melee a lot.

And as usual any views on improving these builds is appreciated.

The Defender does more damage solo due to Soul Drain being all but perma and the -res being better. On teams vigilance means that there will be zero slowdown. The melee defense is somewhat limited but Time's Juncture lets me go easily/safely into melee. Dark Consumption allows me to Blizzard in melee and keep going.

http://www.cohplanner.com/mids/download.php?uc=1533&c=718&a=1436&f=HEX&dc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

The Corrupter has the better defenses (Incarnate worthy) because I felt it needed to go the soul route for BU. This means Soul Drain is only open half the time and leaves him a bit lower on both acc and even damage. It does get a pet which will actually give him a single target damage edge... plus scourge.

http://www.cohplanner.com/mids/download.php?uc=1490&c=691&a=1382&f=HEX&dc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

« Last Edit: November 26, 2014, 06:48:57 PM by Ankhammon »
Cogito, Ergo... eh?

Burnt Toast

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Re: to Defend or Corrupt?
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2014, 09:06:09 AM »
I'll try to look at your builds tomorrow and give ya my impressions.

Ankhammon

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Re: to Defend or Corrupt?
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2014, 01:03:30 AM »
I'll try to look at your builds tomorrow and give ya my impressions.

Looking forward to your input.

By the way, is 770.7% Acc enough for Blizzard?
Just noticed the Defender could pull that off with full SD plus Aim. 849.9% on Ice Storm too.  :)
Cogito, Ergo... eh?

Burnt Toast

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Re: to Defend or Corrupt?
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2014, 08:26:53 PM »
Looking at your defender build:


1. I would take Freeze Ray over Time Stop... because: Freeze Ray has less activation time and costs less endurance. Sure Time Stop has a -regen component, but it's actually very small in the grand scheme of things.


2. Not a fan of Dark Mastery but I see why you took it... for the aoe.


3. Bitter Ice blast...instead of the 2 ToHit Debuff set enhancements.. put in the other 2 Thunderstrike... You want as much ranged defense you can get...even if it means going over soft cap because you have no defense debuff resistance. The 2% damage increase from those is not going to change your dps really. Time's Juncture provides you with plenty of tohit debuff :)


My only concern is your melee defense... 31% can be tricky to pull off a lot of melee moves. I am assuming you plan on opening with your ranged attacks and then using aoes to finish your chain.
-------------------------------


Corruptor Build


Basically the same things as above.


Also let me state this... because I always do. I have been building my builds without PVP or Purple IOs... because I have a feeling they are going to be VERY scarce for quite some time. I do have Purple/PVP builds but for now I am sticking to builds without those... I want builds that are maximized without those for when CoH comes back :)


-------------------------------


So I did two builds... I already have an Ice/Time Build but I noticed you liked Blizzard (I don't because last thing I want are my toggles dropping) and I noticed you like hover... So I did one with Blizzard...and one with Hover. Feel free to pick and choose anything you like from either build.


Here is the one with Hover:

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Here is the one with Blizzard:

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Burnt Toast

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Re: to Defend or Corrupt?
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2014, 08:29:09 PM »
And to answer your question: Corruptor... because the Debuffs in Time are meh to me...and the benefit from the buffs with how I built them isn't noticeable... so go for the more damaging toon hehe.


Only toons I really make defenders are my TA/Arch and of course Empathy... otherwise I tend to prefer the added damage of a corruptor.

Ankhammon

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Re: to Defend or Corrupt?
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2014, 02:20:11 AM »
Looking at your defender build:


1. I would take Freeze Ray over Time Stop... because: Freeze Ray has less activation time and costs less endurance. Sure Time Stop has a -regen component, but it's actually very small in the grand scheme of things.


2. Not a fan of Dark Mastery but I see why you took it... for the aoe.


3. Bitter Ice blast...instead of the 2 ToHit Debuff set enhancements.. put in the other 2 Thunderstrike... You want as much ranged defense you can get...even if it means going over soft cap because you have no defense debuff resistance. The 2% damage increase from those is not going to change your dps really. Time's Juncture provides you with plenty of tohit debuff :)


My only concern is your melee defense... 31% can be tricky to pull off a lot of melee moves. I am assuming you plan on opening with your ranged attacks and then using aoes to finish your chain.
-------------------------------


Corruptor Build


Basically the same things as above.


Also let me state this... because I always do. I have been building my builds without PVP or Purple IOs... because I have a feeling they are going to be VERY scarce for quite some time. I do have Purple/PVP builds but for now I am sticking to builds without those... I want builds that are maximized without those for when CoH comes back :)


-------------------------------


So I did two builds... I already have an Ice/Time Build but I noticed you liked Blizzard (I don't because last thing I want are my toggles dropping) and I noticed you like hover... So I did one with Blizzard...and one with Hover. Feel free to pick and choose anything you like from either build.

Thanks for taking the time to look over my builds and giving me some things to think about.

Let me tell you why I made some of the decisions I did.

1. I was thinking Time Stop over Freeze Ray specifically because of the -Regen and the -Heal on it. It's the -Heal that might be sneaky good with it coming in at -37.25% on the Defender. I thought that made it intriguing enough to make that the choice.

2. Personally I really like the Dark Mastery set. For this character it's the end regain (which times almost perfectly with Blizzard), the pbaoe stun for minions, and the oops power in Soul Transfer (love a self rez with a mag 30 stun in it) that really make the difference. Adding those to the resistances and plus damage/acc and it's got most everything I want, except some status protection.
I do agree that both Soul and Power masteries are very strong options.

3. I see your point with BiB. I think I'll change that.

As to the 31% melee D, it won't matter for most environments (I don't know about Incarnate content though). Time's Juncture covers this hole very well and if they are resistant to that I have backup in Oppressive Gloom and it's stuns. Furthering the fun is that getting mobs to -100% on run speed and recharge is very simple and will happen most of the time. Hover speed is 38 MPH and TP if all else fails to get me out of trouble.

As I stated before, I had a Defender version near the end of the game and got him to 50 (but not incarnated nor finished with the IOs) and he was a serious contender for my best tank (Dark Watcher and Deflated Ego have procs that are amazing for taunting). Tanks had to pull mobs off me with their taunt powers.
I even gave thought to going Time/Ice/Mu and taking Provoke.

Oh, and I agree with your stance on Purple IOs, but I was going crazy trying to get perma Ice Storm when I made these. :)
Changing those out with more affordable options only adds about a half second to recharge on Ice Storm, so ... I'll take the money and run. Good call.

I looked over your builds and it looks like you are going to be taking more of a ranged approach. For some reason (recharge), I don't like PBU quite as much as a lot of other people do.
Great builds though, just not quite the in your face style I want for this guy.
Cogito, Ergo... eh?

Burnt Toast

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Re: to Defend or Corrupt?
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2014, 06:46:10 PM »
My main is a Fire/Time/Power Corruptor... very much gets in the thick of things. I also have an Electric/time/Power Corruptor that is very melee :)


I tend to play my "ranged" toons (Corruptors, Controllers, and Dominators) very melee. My Earth/Psi/Psi Dominator LOVES melee :)

Ankhammon

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Re: to Defend or Corrupt?
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2014, 08:14:00 PM »
My main is a Fire/Time/Power Corruptor... very much gets in the thick of things. I also have an Electric/time/Power Corruptor that is very melee :)


I tend to play my "ranged" toons (Corruptors, Controllers, and Dominators) very melee. My Earth/Psi/Psi Dominator LOVES melee :)

I almost always do too.

Yet the weird thing is I've gone out of my way to make a ranged brute just to attempt to leverage Taunts -75% range component. Technically, it shouldn't have to take any damage. :)
It was originally going to be my kin/Bio/Lev brute but without Bio I might have to go with /Fire (for extra damage) or maybe /Energy Aura (for stealthy positioning).
Either way, 4 cones and two single target ranged damage powers.
Cogito, Ergo... eh?

HEATSTROKE

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Re: to Defend or Corrupt?
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2015, 12:51:30 PM »
 By the end of the game I almost always went Corruptor over defender if my goal was more damage based.

  My Dp/Time corruptor was awesome. My Water Blast/Cold was looking pretty good.. then they killed the game.. I did get him to 50 never got to tweak him properly.

Ankhammon

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Re: to Defend or Corrupt?
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2015, 02:59:59 PM »
By the end of the game I almost always went Corruptor over defender if my goal was more damage based.

  My Dp/Time corruptor was awesome. My Water Blast/Cold was looking pretty good.. then they killed the game.. I did get him to 50 never got to tweak him properly.
If you wanted dam first then rupters were better in most instances.

I think the general consensus for Naff would be different because of the tier 9.

I almost always went def because of the balance it had and my subversive plan to force the player base to look at defenders as something more than the kid brother you had to watch.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2015, 03:41:15 AM by Ankhammon »
Cogito, Ergo... eh?

HEATSTROKE

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Re: to Defend or Corrupt?
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2015, 12:35:56 AM »
If you wanted dam first then rupters were better in most instances.

I think the general consensus for Naff would be different because of the tier 9.

I almost always went def because of the balance it had and my subversive plan to force the player base to look at defenders as something more than the kid brother you had to watch.

I had a Cold/Ice and a Rad/Rad defender.. nothing else really inspired me as a Defender in all honesty.

rebel 1812

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Re: to Defend or Corrupt?
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2015, 04:30:03 AM »
If you wanted dam first then rupters were better in most instances.

I think the general consensus for Naff would be different because of the tier 9.

I almost always went def because of the balance it had and my subversive plan to force the player base to look at defenders as something more than the kid brother you had to watch.

I'm interested in making a nature's affinity/dual pistol defender myself.  Skipping powers makes the build more flexible.  Its a shame you have to choose one of     Corrosive Enzymes or Regrowth.  Since the set doesn't have much debuff but alot of healing I would take corrosive enzymes and skip regrowth.

Ankhammon

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Re: to Defend or Corrupt?
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2015, 04:43:49 AM »
I'm interested in making a nature's affinity/dual pistol defender myself.  Skipping powers makes the build more flexible.  Its a shame you have to choose one of     Corrosive Enzymes or Regrowth.  Since the set doesn't have much debuff but alot of healing I would take corrosive enzymes and skip regrowth.

When the game was still going, it was one of my last projects. I got one into the low 30s on test and mid 20s live. It was a lot of fun.

I will say, if you want to stay using fire ammo, you will want the regrowth available (at least until you have Overgrowth coming up regularly).
However, if you are willing to use toxic ammo you can pretty easily do without regrowth... unless you want to take on EB/AVs and the like and even then a small green will do you most of the time.   

This thread might give you some more insight. http://web.archive.org/web/20120906140635/http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=294288
Cogito, Ergo... eh?