Author Topic: Suggestions for major dev alterations if CoH relaunches  (Read 54383 times)

silvers1

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Re: Suggestions for minor dev alterations if CoH relaunches
« Reply #60 on: May 09, 2015, 11:56:10 AM »
My Wish...

Paragon Store open with the ability for me to buy any enhancement I want so I can get all my toons right back to the level they were when the game shut down..

Don't want this turned into yet another pay2win game.  I have no problem with cosmetic items being sold in the store, but once it gets
into the realm of equipment that gives you an advantage over others - really not a good idea IMO.

--- Hercules - Freedom Server ---

Taceus Jiwede

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Re: Suggestions for minor dev alterations if CoH relaunches
« Reply #61 on: May 09, 2015, 06:23:22 PM »
This is going to sound weird but I wish they would change as little as possible. Maybe upgrade the graphics for 2.0.  However the devs of CoH have said before they don't even know what they did to make the game so special.  Every change made to the game risks compromising that.

Making player based changes to the game we love could be a very slippery slope.   

Sinistar

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Re: Suggestions for minor dev alterations if CoH relaunches
« Reply #62 on: May 10, 2015, 12:43:17 AM »
Don't want this turned into yet another pay2win game.  I have no problem with cosmetic items being sold in the store, but once it gets
into the realm of equipment that gives you an advantage over others - really not a good idea IMO.

Well the paragon points unlocked respecs, costume tokens, nemesis staff, base telporter power and some other minor temp powers and costume pieces.   I can't see buying up all the tokens needed to refill the token slots on relaunch to be a game breaking advantage over others.   

When the game returns I will reroll my toons then spend some serious time in the paragon store to reclaim paragon points and repurchase the costume packs and also the mystery boxes or whatever they were called that awarded merits, special IO's, rare pets, etc.
In fearful COH-less days
In Raging COH-less nights
With Strong Hearts Full, we shall UNITE!
When all seems lost in the effort to bring CoH back to life,
Look to Cyberspace, where HOPE burns bright!

LaughingAlex

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Re: Suggestions for minor dev alterations if CoH relaunches
« Reply #63 on: May 10, 2015, 01:29:47 AM »
This is going to sound weird but I wish they would change as little as possible. Maybe upgrade the graphics for 2.0.  However the devs of CoH have said before they don't even know what they did to make the game so special.  Every change made to the game risks compromising that.

Making player based changes to the game we love could be a very slippery slope.

I think the reason many of the CoH devs didn't know what they did to make the game so special is because they've not really seen super teams in action, but maybe also forgot the kind of depth the game had.  It's easy to lose touch, and heck i'd expect some people to lose touch, with why the non-trinity kind of play city of heroes inadvertedly had was a good thing.  It's even easier to misunderstand city of heroes when every single other mmorpg does things in the draconic ways they do.  These days the devs are working on existing titles that more than likely are comprised entirely of holy trinity clones.

It's probably easy to forget why an all corruptor or all defender team was so powerful, or why people had success with scrappers or why so much altitus was prevalent in city of heroes.  Truth is it's because the game had far better balance than other mmorpgs because it didn't conform to the same imbalance-prone rules that other mmorpgs follow; if anyone is winning without using the holy trinity tactic they see the game as imbalanced.  In reality though, balance is both subjective as some people had said but also comes in multiple forms.

I often saw city of heroes classes as either "Muscle" or "multiplier" types.  A muscle character had a ton of power built in, but couldn't increase the power of anyone in the team effectively.  A multiplier character boosted the effectiveness of teammates, sometimes they benefited from their own buffs/debuffs, others didn't but could buff others even further in some way.

At same time I saw that every powerset had some kind of strategy to it.  And the fact that you couldn't just randomly pick/choose from other sets you didn't take meant that balance was far more important.

In many ways city of heroes was almost more of an mmorpg/rts than it was a streight mmorpg.  And it was also because it didn't really seem to forget what the "rpg" meant at the end of mmorpg.  In that, it was about solving problems, not "your defined role in a team".   The whole "defined role in a team" mentality is to me a terrible way to think what "role playing game" stands for, because it's like your thinking as if people are just cogs in a machine rather than individuals in a team.  Other mmorpgs teams were not individuals teaming and working together, but just cogs in a machine.  Even the player behavior in them being rude to anyone making any perceived mistakes reflects that mindset.  Your either a healer, tank, or damage dealer, not whatever your name is, and if your not putting out the right numbers you deservery every form of mistreatment to some players.

Edit: Heck, I even had a case where my team couldn't kick a jerk because he was playing the most vital "minionmancer" role, which was our only means to do damage and he revealed himself as a jerk halfway through the content we played.    Because if the "cog" he was, was removed we'd all have been destroyed.  All because to many mmorpg players, your not a human being but a cog in the machine.  Not to mention our only incentive to play was the reward, not the fun.

Which to me is another problem, mmorpgs try to keep people playing by not being fun but simply by playing addictive mind-tricks.  Your rewarded items for success even if your bored of the game, you end up keep playing for the loot even if your very unhappy playing it.  Course many players fail to realize it, but they are addicted even though they have no fun playing, they only play for the reward.  And when they get it, they consider the game "beat" and move on.


While in city of heroes you were you.  You were a human being and you weren't just another healer/tank/damage dealer.  You weren't a cog in the machine.  You were you, and your skills were yours to contribute to the effort.  There is a huge difference between a team of robots and a team of human beings, know?  Thats also something that, due to the sheer variety of viable strategies city of heroes had, helped it significantly.

And the game didn't try to keep you playing by being addictive, but more by balancing the whole "instant gratification" vs "fake fun through rewards".  You still had to level up a new character to see what kind a combination of powersets would do.  But it also made it fun to see how the character develops.  Character development was a stronger point of city of heroes.  A reason I wouldn't want AE to be usable for power leveling, since you miss the whole point of character development.  Heck city of heroes was a role players game, not a munchkins game.  And I think that, also made a huge difference compared to other mmorpgs.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2015, 01:38:29 AM by LaughingAlex »
Currently; Not doing any streaming, found myself with less time available recently.  Still playing starbound periodically, though I am thinking of trying other games.  Don't tell me to play mmohtg's though please :).  Getting back into participating in VO and the successors again to.

HEATSTROKE

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Re: Suggestions for minor dev alterations if CoH relaunches
« Reply #64 on: May 10, 2015, 02:03:38 AM »
Don't want this turned into yet another pay2win game.  I have no problem with cosmetic items being sold in the store, but once it gets
into the realm of equipment that gives you an advantage over others - really not a good idea IMO.

 In all honesty.. I could give a crap less about the whole Pay 2 Win concept.. Unless we are talking about  are some avid PvP person to me Pay 2 Win doesnt bother me in the least..

 Explain exactly to me what I win If I pay?

 In City of Heroes I paid for a monthly subscription even when it went F2P.. what did I win ??
 
 That payment got me access to Paragon Points.. What did I win?

 I paid to get Super Packs.. What exactly did I win ???
 
 I paid on occasion to get enhancements from the store when they were for sale..  Exactly what did I win ??

 That just my take on the whole Pay 2 Win argument.. to me its just silly..

LaughingAlex

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Re: Suggestions for minor dev alterations if CoH relaunches
« Reply #65 on: May 10, 2015, 04:17:41 AM »
I wouldn't want us going down the same path CO did though, with op store-only items released and then nerfed constantly.  Course, I wouldn't want nerf-heads ruining the game in general, but pay to win past a certain point only to me dooms games.  CO went well past that, started baiting and switching due to nerf heads asking for nerfs to said items, and then now it's a ghost town.  I talk to some people and they are dismayed at whats happened to it and very fearful of a shutdown, expecting a shutdown and are surprised every day to find it still running, like they expect an announcement any day anymore.

The severe mis-management combined with the overall misleading by listening to the more selfish members of the community, players who only wanted nerfs to things they didn't like and general prudes about different playstyles.  Players who also shouted down any good idea that could have helped the game.   They ultimately killed it.  I wouldn't want them to have the ammo necessary to start crying in CoH's new forums when our game comes back.

Especially since it's pretty clear to anyone with a brain CO is unofficially on it's death bed.
Currently; Not doing any streaming, found myself with less time available recently.  Still playing starbound periodically, though I am thinking of trying other games.  Don't tell me to play mmohtg's though please :).  Getting back into participating in VO and the successors again to.

Sinistar

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Re: Suggestions for minor dev alterations if CoH relaunches
« Reply #66 on: May 10, 2015, 06:34:23 AM »
I wouldn't want us going down the same path CO did though, with op store-only items released and then nerfed constantly.  Course, I wouldn't want nerf-heads ruining the game in general, but pay to win past a certain point only to me dooms games.  CO went well past that, started baiting and switching due to nerf heads asking for nerfs to said items, and then now it's a ghost town.  I talk to some people and they are dismayed at whats happened to it and very fearful of a shutdown, expecting a shutdown and are surprised every day to find it still running, like they expect an announcement any day anymore.

The severe mis-management combined with the overall misleading by listening to the more selfish members of the community, players who only wanted nerfs to things they didn't like and general prudes about different playstyles.  Players who also shouted down any good idea that could have helped the game.   They ultimately killed it.  I wouldn't want them to have the ammo necessary to start crying in CoH's new forums when our game comes back.

Especially since it's pretty clear to anyone with a brain CO is unofficially on it's death bed.

I shall enjoy watching CO go dark.
In fearful COH-less days
In Raging COH-less nights
With Strong Hearts Full, we shall UNITE!
When all seems lost in the effort to bring CoH back to life,
Look to Cyberspace, where HOPE burns bright!

LaughingAlex

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Re: Suggestions for minor dev alterations if CoH relaunches
« Reply #67 on: May 10, 2015, 07:56:16 AM »
I shall enjoy watching CO go dark.

Funnily enough I don't actually enjoy seeing them go dark.  I get more mixed feelings about the whole prospect.  On one hand, the jerks who ruined it are to blame, so I'm not bothered from that.  And I am not bothered and even smile at the whole "karma", but at the same time, I do enjoy the game itself, and I have friends who do to.  So I end up with a cognitive dissonance.  I believe the game probably should be shutdown due to the jerks ruining it to have it all to themselves but at the same time I don't want it shut down and believe only ill would come from a shutdown at the same time.  See above and my worry about the nerf-heads trolling city of heroes if it came back.

Edit: Imagine some guy the smart CO vets dislike coming along and saying to nerf time manipulation and telepathy, then making demands for all defense to be nerfed cause no one was inviting his healer.  They wouldn't be happy to see the person trying to ruin CoH know?
« Last Edit: September 23, 2015, 11:06:53 PM by LaughingAlex »
Currently; Not doing any streaming, found myself with less time available recently.  Still playing starbound periodically, though I am thinking of trying other games.  Don't tell me to play mmohtg's though please :).  Getting back into participating in VO and the successors again to.

RGladden

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Re: Suggestions for minor dev alterations if CoH relaunches
« Reply #68 on: May 10, 2015, 12:07:05 PM »

Edit: Imagine some guy the smart CO vets coming along and saying to nerf time manipulation and telepathy, then making demands for all defense to be nerfed cause no one was inviting his healer.  They wouldn't be happy to see the person trying to ruin CoH know?

I don't see any of that happening, simply because when the game comes back it will be in maintenance mode, with its code frozen in place and no upgrades or nerfing being possible.


Noyjitat

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Re: Suggestions for minor dev alterations if CoH relaunches
« Reply #69 on: May 10, 2015, 12:44:59 PM »
I shall enjoy watching CO go dark.

Not me... I enjoyed CO and had high hopes for it during alpha and beta but once the launch day nerfs came it was pretty easy to predict the future of it's demise. And ofcourse now it doesn't get content updates or new zones. Still has some fun moments but it's yet another game with lots of "it could of been more" and "it looked like it had a bright future"

Developers and publishers just don't get it anymore.

HEATSTROKE

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Re: Suggestions for minor dev alterations if CoH relaunches
« Reply #70 on: May 10, 2015, 12:49:10 PM »
 All I am asking for is that the Paragon Store be back in the game exactly the way it was before.. Nothing More.. Nothing Less..

blacksly

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Re: Suggestions for minor dev alterations if CoH relaunches
« Reply #71 on: May 10, 2015, 01:56:26 PM »
I don't see any of that happening, simply because when the game comes back it will be in maintenance mode, with its code frozen in place and no upgrades or nerfing being possible.

I'm pretty sure that power statistic changes could be made since they are in tables and not in code.
I'm not so sure about adding new powers, or if you replace a temp power with a permanent power how you might make the permanent power available... but I'm pretty sure that if you wanted to nerf Regen, it could be done.
And, really, what more could someone ask? As long as we can still nerf Regen, we're still okay.

Sinistar

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Re: Suggestions for minor dev alterations if CoH relaunches
« Reply #72 on: May 10, 2015, 04:04:04 PM »
As an incentive to players when CoH returns, they should run a limited time offer where you can purchase a special item from the store, you can only get one for one hero, one villain and one praetorian character on your account.  Activate teh item and the character becomes level 50.

Thus players unlock the epic characters,  the instant 50 character would of course still need to exemp down for TF/SF, and players have characters that can now access the high level content including incarnate trials right away.
In fearful COH-less days
In Raging COH-less nights
With Strong Hearts Full, we shall UNITE!
When all seems lost in the effort to bring CoH back to life,
Look to Cyberspace, where HOPE burns bright!

Winter Fable

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Re: Suggestions for minor dev alterations if CoH relaunches
« Reply #73 on: May 10, 2015, 05:44:19 PM »
As an incentive to players when CoH returns, they should run a limited time offer where you can purchase a special item from the store, you can only get one for one hero, one villain and one praetorian character on your account.  Activate teh item and the character becomes level 50.

Thus players unlock the epic characters,  the instant 50 character would of course still need to exemp down for TF/SF, and players have characters that can now access the high level content including incarnate trials right away.

No point Sin,maintenance mode means there would be no rush to get to 50 because no new powers or zones or anything.We could hopefully take as much time as we want(if the servers stay for many years)to play all missions,maps,and make every power  we want :)Looking forward to playing again not just getting to 50.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2015, 06:21:32 PM by Winter Story »

Noyjitat

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Re: Suggestions for minor dev alterations if CoH relaunches
« Reply #74 on: May 10, 2015, 06:08:10 PM »
I want to Run trials and msrs like I was before the Shutdown. I was doing it on multiple characters and wasnt even close to being bored. So i'll definitely be heading to 50 but wont farm my way there for awhile atleast. Got faultline, croatoa and shining stars on my mind.

Blackout

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Re: Suggestions for minor dev alterations if CoH relaunches
« Reply #75 on: May 10, 2015, 06:19:26 PM »
Hmmm Here's an idea that just occurred to me. Maybe when/If the game comes back they could somehow introduce some kind of way to run the seasonal taskforces and stuff of that nature. Dr Kahn's house of horror, the winter lord stuff, Nemesis Invasions and stuff. This is, of course all predicated upon the assumption that the game will come back in a static form so non static events and the like would have to be re-introduced in some kind of static form.

Codewalker

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Re: Suggestions for minor dev alterations if CoH relaunches
« Reply #76 on: May 10, 2015, 06:20:10 PM »
I'm pretty sure that power statistic changes could be made since they are in tables and not in code.

They are not just in a standard database. Without a debug build of the game to regenerate the data from the text version, you have to modify the binary format by hand, which involves reverse engineering the encoding of the powers structure.

In short, I could do it. Arcana could do it. TopDoc could probably manage to modify the basic power and effect info. Past that there's maybe 3 or 4 others in the community who could muddle their way through numerical adjustments of powers that don't use complex mechanics. It's not something your average contractor for programming could do.

Sinistar

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Re: Suggestions for minor dev alterations if CoH relaunches
« Reply #77 on: May 10, 2015, 10:16:52 PM »
Hmmm Here's an idea that just occurred to me. Maybe when/If the game comes back they could somehow introduce some kind of way to run the seasonal taskforces and stuff of that nature. Dr Kahn's house of horror, the winter lord stuff, Nemesis Invasions and stuff. This is, of course all predicated upon the assumption that the game will come back in a static form so non static events and the like would have to be re-introduced in some kind of static form.

Link the holiday events to Ouroborus
In fearful COH-less days
In Raging COH-less nights
With Strong Hearts Full, we shall UNITE!
When all seems lost in the effort to bring CoH back to life,
Look to Cyberspace, where HOPE burns bright!

Hells Wing

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Re: Suggestions for minor dev alterations if CoH relaunches
« Reply #78 on: July 23, 2015, 12:06:33 AM »
I believe Matt Miller's discussion here highlights the best kind of changes to be applied. He mentioend how the game engine it was based on made it very difficult to create updates and he would've loved to have rebuilt the bottom: https://youtu.be/NYBzs5P3eBs

Pseudo42

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Re: Suggestions for minor dev alterations if CoH relaunches
« Reply #79 on: September 04, 2015, 10:55:16 PM »
Create a new TF based around the Saving of City of Heroes Game-

The Freakshow invade the Computer Network Firm, CNFirm for short, and bankrupt the firm from several attacks of property damage.  Unable to sustain their business from multiple attacks, they shut down the popular game, City of Gyros.  This gains the attention of many Gyro fans and urge the city's heroes into action.

TF may include:

Multiple phone missions.
Holding torches.
Stopping Nemesis.
And speaking with all the surviving members of the Freedom Phalanx.

Just an idea.   Might be in poor taste to NCSoft, but it's important they are not interpreted to be the bad guys but rather are forced into the position.  Why the Freakshow?  Not sure. First villain group to pop into my head.  Crey might make more sense from a buisness theme perspective.