Author Topic: Ridiculous Question  (Read 72944 times)

GUGuardian

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Ridiculous Question
« on: March 30, 2015, 03:32:11 PM »
I specialize in ridiculous questions, so I'm going to ask this (or, rather, these):

How big a waste of time would it be for the entire CoH-loving community to BOYCOTT NCSoft?  Are the other games they offer really that good that no one would put them aside to demand NCSoft stop dictating to us what's playable and what's not?  Would anyone be willing to make the effort to demand either a re-release, a sequel inside of a year, or a standalone game (standalone or able to link up with people without servers)?

How much do we want our City back?

MWRuger

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Re: Ridiculous Question
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2015, 03:38:03 PM »
None whatsoever. It didn't help us before and will actually harm the current efforts.
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TonyV

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Re: Ridiculous Question
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2015, 04:20:47 PM »
None whatsoever. It didn't help us before and will actually harm the current efforts.

That's not true.  There is no indication that it would make a difference to "current efforts" one way or another.

Personal opinion o' Tony is as follows:

I'm personally boycotting NCsoft games.  Not so much because of City of Heroes specifically (though that is part of it), but because they have shut down five games now that I know of: Exteel, Dungeon Runners, Auto Assault, Tabula Rasa, and City of Heroes.  A sixth is, in my opinion, likely on the cusp of being shut down, Wildstar.

The MMORPG genre is particularly conducive to spending inordinate amounts of time, effort, and money on games to be successful.  Personally, I probably spent somewhere in the neighborhood of $10,000 on City of Heroes, if you count three trips to California to meet up at Player Summits, two subscriptions for almost the entire run of the game, bonus packs and "Paragon Points" on the market after the launch of CoH: Freedom, hosting costs for the Paragon Wiki, these forums, and the Titan Network sites, plus miscellaneous expenses.  (But not including probably $2000 or $3000 over the course of the years in computer upgrades that I probably would have foregone were it not for me wanting to see Ultra Mode in all of its glory...)

Now, don't get me wrong, I don't regret spending that.  I know people who have hobbies such as golf, woodworking, or car stereos that spend a lot more.  I genuinely enjoyed playing the game and being part of the community it fostered.  But there's also still no denying that the day they shut down the servers, I felt like most of that investment was simply gone without any kind of visible trace.

So hopefully it's pretty obvious when I say that I have been extremely reluctant to invest in any MMORPG since then.  I have at least tried Champions Online, Star Trek Online, Elder Scrolls Online, Lord of the Rings Online, Neverwinter, and probably two or three more games that I don't even remember.  None have really "stuck" in that right now, I'm not playing any of them.  I even went so far as to buy the "Hero of the North" or whatever the top tier perk pack was called was Neverwinter and some Zen (currency) to burn on some extra in-game swag thinking that surely I would stick with that game, but after about a month or two of playing, I just kind of fell away from it.  I just didn't feel like sinking a crapton more money and time into another game knowing that eventually it will probably shut down also, without any kind of effort to ensure the community that once they decided to pull the plug, the community won't just be hung out to dry.

So in that sense, I genuinely feel that NCsoft has poisoned the well when it comes to MMORPGs for me.  And if I'm not eager to really engage in other MMORPGs, I sure as hell am not going to reward the company that made it clear in no uncertain terms that it prioritizes some nebulous long-term business strategy over a profitable game and dedicated community.  If other people just plain find Guild Wars 2, Lineage I or II, or Wildstar so irresistible that they're willing to throw money at them even after what happened especially to Tabula Rasa and City of Heroes fans, then more power to them.  But I urge each and every one of them to seriously consider before spending one cent in those games, what if NCsoft decides tomorrow that their game isn't in the long-term business interest of the company?  Would you still shell out your hard-earned money knowing that the game is living on borrowed time?

As for "current efforts," I surely do wish that people would stop trying to guess what's in the heads of NCsoft executives.  I assure you that whatever it is you think they're thinking, you're almost certainly wrong.  Under the current management, there's no amount of "respecting their culture" or "avoiding making waves" that will change their mind about City of Heroes.  The truth of the matter is that NCsoft is engaged in a political battle with Nexon right now that puts any kind of squabbles over City of Heroes really low on their radar.  In fact, there's some question over whether NCsoft is even the right company to be approaching over releasing City of Heroes.

My point is that people saying that doing X or not doing Y will positively or negatively impact us getting City of Heroes back are just plain wrong.  That die was cast in August of 2012.  At this point, my sincere advice is to avoid NCsoft games not as some kind of political statement, but because I believe you'd be wasting your money if you don't.  And stop worrying about what NCsoft does or doesn't think about the City of Heroes community, because the harsh truth right now is that it's highly doubtful that they're thinking anything about us.

And no, that's not some nihilistic statement of resignation.  Things change.  Politics shift.  Properties change hands.  Once we have new players to work with or a new opportunity presents itself, we'll try again.  I'm still 100% certain that at some point, we'll have our city back, with or without NCsoft's help.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2015, 08:50:24 PM by TonyV »

duane

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Re: Ridiculous Question
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2015, 04:40:44 PM »
I have quietly boycotted ncsoft games since the COH closure.  I was actually following Wildstar development with interest as a. It looked interesting and b. It's "by" the same people who had coh.  Keep money in the family. 

Obviously I was more attached to ncsoft then they were to me.

I hope for the best with the Wildstar community, but I will not sub until I can log into coh again.

I have been good since IronWoof asked to tone down the anti-ncsoft rhetoric during the current negotiations. 

Remaugen

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Re: Ridiculous Question
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2015, 04:52:05 PM »
I won't have anything to do with NCSoft since the shutdown. I tried Aion and GuildWars before the end but neither held my interest long enough to wait through an update. They have nothing else to interest me even if they didn't have my animosity from the CoH sunset. . .
We're almost there!  ;D

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Pyromantic

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Re: Ridiculous Question
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2015, 04:55:28 PM »
Once we have new players to work with or a new opportunity presents itself, we'll try again.  I'm still 100% certain that at some point, we'll have our city back, with or without NCsoft's help.

Does this mean that there are no current negotiations about acquiring CoH, and that they will be on hiatus until there is some resolution/change in the landscape?

If so, that would be significant news to me.

FloatingFatMan

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Re: Ridiculous Question
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2015, 04:56:28 PM »
NCSoft are on my personal boycott list too.  Not buying another of their games until CoH is back online.

Brigadine

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Re: Ridiculous Question
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2015, 05:09:13 PM »
Does this mean that there are no current negotiations about acquiring CoH, and that they will be on hiatus until there is some resolution/change in the landscape?

If so, that would be significant news to me.
Good question....

The Fifth Horseman

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Re: Ridiculous Question
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2015, 05:18:44 PM »
How big a waste of time would it be for the entire CoH-loving community to BOYCOTT NCSoft?
Total waste. It's been tried, and did not do jack except harm more civil attempts.
Quote
Are the other games they offer really that good that no one would put them aside to demand NCSoft stop dictating to us what's playable and what's not?
There were few enough of CoH players for NCSoft to not change their position on canning the game in three months before the announcement and closure.
Your belief ex-CoH players are a significant portion of those games' paying player base that NCSoft would actually react to such boycott is completely baseless.
Quote
Would anyone be willing to make the effort to demand either a re-release, a sequel inside of a year, or a standalone game (standalone or able to link up with people without servers)?
The only option you named that's anywhere near realistic is a re-release, and far as we know someone's already in talks with NCSoft about that right now, see http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/topic,9675.0.html
Quote
How much do we want our City back?
I'll take "enough to play it cool instead of harming the best chance we have" for however long it takes.
We were heroes. We were villains. At the end of the world we all fought as one. It's what we did that defines us.
The end occurred pretty much as we predicted: all servers redlining until midnight... and then no servers to go around.

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Burnt Toast

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Re: Ridiculous Question
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2015, 05:40:35 PM »

Negotiations are ongoing for the purchase of the COH IP.

Does this mean that there are no current negotiations about acquiring CoH, and that they will be on hiatus until there is some resolution/change in the landscape?

If so, that would be significant news to me.

Burnt Toast

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Re: Ridiculous Question
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2015, 06:01:39 PM »

I know a lot of former CoH players boycotted NCSoft games. Immediately following the announcement of the closure...many efforts occurred to try to show NCSoft that they should keep CoH open.


As stated by a few others... there are already ongoing negotiations that are taking place for the purchase of the CoH IP. Unfortunately due to a Non-Disclosure Agreement (Which is common place during negotiations) nothing can truly be said except that: negotiations are ongoing.


We are all here because we loved CoH and we want our game back. Unfortunately all we can do now is wait for either a "Yes the deal is done etc etc" or a "No the deal fell through etc etc." Please know though that even if the deal does fall through (cross your fingers and toes that doesn't happen) that the current negotiations will provide valuable insight into any further attempts and that IF that were to happen... that one "NO"... does not mean we will stop trying... ever!





I specialize in ridiculous questions, so I'm going to ask this (or, rather, these):

How big a waste of time would it be for the entire CoH-loving community to BOYCOTT NCSoft?  Are the other games they offer really that good that no one would put them aside to demand NCSoft stop dictating to us what's playable and what's not?  Would anyone be willing to make the effort to demand either a re-release, a sequel inside of a year, or a standalone game (standalone or able to link up with people without servers)?

How much do we want our City back?

Pyromantic

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Re: Ridiculous Question
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2015, 06:02:56 PM »
Negotiations are ongoing for the purchase of the COH IP.

That was my understanding of things.  I just didn't know how else to interpret the portion of TonyV's post that I quoted.

Burnt Toast

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Re: Ridiculous Question
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2015, 06:05:45 PM »
Just remember that any news regarding the purchase attempt will be reported directly by Downix...or be in the PURCHASE ATTEMPT thread started by Codewalker.

That was my understanding of things.  I just didn't know how else to interpret the portion of TonyV's post that I quoted.

Surelle

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Re: Ridiculous Question
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2015, 06:12:26 PM »
Well said, Tony, and I couldn't agree more.

Thank you for speaking up; it's good to see you coming around here again actively.   :D

Codewalker

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Re: Ridiculous Question
« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2015, 06:24:23 PM »
Does this mean that there are no current negotiations about acquiring CoH, and that they will be on hiatus until there is some resolution/change in the landscape?

If so, that would be significant news to me.

No, that's Tony's personal speculation, he's not directly involved either way.

No news is no news.

Minotaur

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Re: Ridiculous Question
« Reply #15 on: March 30, 2015, 06:33:09 PM »
Will I give NCSoft another cent - no

Is this a "ragequit" - no, I just will not give my money to a company that will shut down a game that wasn't failing, taking away a goodly amount of my money both spent and unspent sitting there as points. Had I already bought another NCSoft game, would I play it free ? sure if I liked it, I just won't invest in something which might be taken away in my view without proper reason, denying me value for my investment.


Angel Phoenix77

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Re: Ridiculous Question
« Reply #16 on: March 30, 2015, 06:39:49 PM »
I have quietly boycotted ncsoft games since the COH closure.  I was actually following Wildstar development with interest as a. It looked interesting and b. It's "by" the same people who had coh.  Keep money in the family. 

Obviously I was more attached to ncsoft then they were to me.

I hope for the best with the Wildstar community, but I will not sub until I can log into coh again.

I have been good since IronWoof asked to tone down the anti-ncsoft rhetoric during the current negotiations.
I agree with you duane, I too have boycotted ncsofts games. However for me it started a bit earlier before the closure.
A year and a half ago I started to let go of my hate and anger for Ncsoft, and I have been a good person :D.
I also agree with Tony.
One day the Phoenix will rise again.

MWRuger

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Re: Ridiculous Question
« Reply #17 on: March 30, 2015, 06:41:24 PM »
That's not true.  There is no indication that it would make a difference to "current efforts" one way or another.


We were asked to keep a low profile and specifically not to conduct a letter writing campaign. Until I hear different I think it is a bad idea.

Personally, I'm not playing or buying NCSoft product. I haven't since the close and don't intend to. But that's my personal choice, not an organized effort of any kind.

I have also said that if they do sell the IP and image, the first month I am back in game I will subscribe to one of thier games or maybe buy Guild wars II as a "thank you".
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Arcana

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Re: Ridiculous Question
« Reply #18 on: March 30, 2015, 07:24:29 PM »
As for "current efforts," I surely do wish that people would stop trying to guess what's in the heads of NCsoft executives.  I assure you that whatever it is you think they're thinking, you're almost certainly wrong.  Under the current management, there's no amount of "respecting their culture" or "avoiding making waves" that will change their mind about City of Heroes.  The truth of the matter is that NCsoft is engaged in a political battle with Nexon right now that puts any kind of squabbles over City of Heroes really low on their radar.  In fact, there's some question over whether NCsoft is even the right company to be approaching over releasing City of Heroes.

My point is that people saying that doing X or not doing Y will positively or negatively impact us getting City of Heroes back are just plain wrong.  That die was cast in August of 2012.  At this point, my sincere advice is to avoid NCsoft games not as some kind of political statement, but because I believe you'd be wasting your money if you don't.  And stop worrying about what NCsoft does or doesn't think about the City of Heroes community, because the harsh truth right now is that it's highly doubtful that they're thinking anything about us.

I think its fair to say there's little we can do to improve things generally, and the threat of blackmail or the carrot of terminating one would certainly have no beneficial effect whatsoever.  However, whether we can have a negative impact is less clear.  I would say that when you have no upside and an uncertain downside, that's not a recommended course of action.  However, this is in the context of a very public and visible coordinated boycott.  What any individual person chooses to do in terms of buying or not buying NCSoft games probably has exactly no impact whatsoever in either direction, because that act would be financially unnoticeable.

houtex

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Re: Ridiculous Question
« Reply #19 on: March 30, 2015, 07:59:21 PM »
Just quickly commenting here on this then I'm out.

Please.. not this again.  It doesn't help anyone. 

If you personally want to not buy things from a company, by all means.  But let's not rally or anything of that sort, ok?  It would only hurt in some way, and we are *FINE* where we are in regards to NCSoft.  Let us not mess it up.