Author Topic: Testing the Waters/Interest  (Read 21642 times)

Azrael

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Re: Testing the Waters/Interest
« Reply #40 on: July 03, 2015, 10:00:20 PM »
There won't be any NPC summoning at first. Probably not until we implement the custom environment support, then whoever sets up the private session will be the designed GM and has the ability to spawn NPCs that show up to players who join it.

Thinks about GM summoning...*   Custom environment support...  This sounds very intriguing.  RPG'ers rejoice.

*Looking far in to the future.  For 'other projects.'  Real time spawning by a 'live' GM?  **(Thinks about something 'GM' flavoured my friend once showed me about the older versions of Neverwinter...)

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Quote
Quote from: Arcana on June 24, 2015, 01:13:06 am
I was kind of thinking about putting some thought into working with Codewalker to get actual powers to work.  But that works also.

Yeah, even if powers are just "Emotes" for now, they'd be awesome to have.

Given Codewalker's legendary coding skills and binary knowledge of the actual game code/structure and your authoritative knowledge of the game, ideas and sense of design (and your previous mention of knowing 80% of how the combat/powers - was it? - worked?) if it meant we got powers working sooner.  You seem to have a very complementary knowledge of the game which is technical and informative.  Lethal combination.

Force multiplier for reverse engineering efforts.  Many hands make light work.

As per the quote.  The powers would be great to have as 'emotes'  I'd love to Power Emote(TM) the Energy Torrent.  Or any other power.  Or self shields as tank/brute.  To point '0' in front of player or down the street before disappearing.

The powers are there in the creator.  At least as animation files.  Or they just hard coded 'emote' routines just for the Character Creator?  Can they be hacked to 'play' in Paragon Chat?  Or targeted emote to play at another PC in Paragon Chat?

Do you need the combat engine for that..?
« Last Edit: July 03, 2015, 10:10:48 PM by Azrael »

Arcana

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Re: Testing the Waters/Interest
« Reply #41 on: July 03, 2015, 11:02:59 PM »
Given Codewalker's legendary coding skills and binary knowledge of the actual game code/structure and your authoritative knowledge of the game, ideas and sense of design (and your previous mention of knowing 80% of how the combat/powers - was it? - worked?) if it meant we got powers working sooner.  You seem to have a very complementary knowledge of the game which is technical and informative.  Lethal combination.

I may know a few facts here and there Codewalker doesn't have off the top of his head, and I may have a design idea or two Codewalker hasn't considered, but at this moment there is probably very little I know about how the game functions that Codewalker does not know.  If there is one thing I might be able to do that Codewalker is less in a position to do, its figure out the limits of what PC is capable of, because he's going to be spending most of his time improving PC itself.  But I'm more inclined to figure out how to use what he builds, than hack what he builds to do something different.

On the subject of "making powers work."  There are a lot of technical hurdles to overcome to make that happen in PC, and some of those technical hurdles involve adding features to PC, some involve figuring out the limits of the architecture of PC, and some of them may come down to making decisions about what we want to allow at all in PC.  As a community messaging tool, PC has design requirements that may fundamentally differ from what a game needs.  We may want to give users more freedom to do certain things they didn't have in the game.  But that may come at a cost of losing the freedom to do other things the game allowed.  Do we want people to be able to attack and defeat NPCs?  Even ones other users spawned for their own purposes?  Do we need to make combat isolated to certain maps, or even need an opt-in mechanism, even for NPCs?  Does that suggest that the normal way of combat happening is not appropriate to PC, and a different method makes more sense?  If we can't update as fast as the original game did, does that also place limits on how powers work.  Do we need to limit what powers players are allowed to execute?

Its a trickier tangle than it might first appear to be, made all the more tricky due to the fact that no one, not me and not even Codewalker, really knows what the limits of the technology actually are, and what we can get away with.  There's a learning curve for everyone.

MWRuger

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Re: Testing the Waters/Interest
« Reply #42 on: July 04, 2015, 04:08:12 AM »
What I liked to know is what is the best way to get started with the role-playing once Chat starts?

If there are any groups looking for new members, I'm interested in at least giving it a whirl.
 
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Photon Cannon

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Re: Testing the Waters/Interest
« Reply #43 on: July 04, 2015, 04:12:19 AM »
What I liked to know is what is the best way to get started with the role-playing once Chat starts?

If there are any groups looking for new members, I'm interested in at least giving it a whirl.

Definitely check out the typical RP sites--Pocket D, Atlas Park, etc. Offer up in chat if anyone would like to RP, or ask and see if any are happening. You can also be passive about it, RPing by yourself to start: make a post describing what the character is up to and check if anyone joins in.

I'm quite sure a group will take you under their wing without hesitation, as well.  :)
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Takinalis

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Re: Testing the Waters/Interest
« Reply #44 on: July 04, 2015, 04:18:59 AM »
My *first* goal isn't powers. It's dice. The Dice emote is a good place to start.

Having said that, I seem to remember a 'fire1' command in Icon I'd like to see functional in PC at some point ;)
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Takinalis

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Re: Testing the Waters/Interest
« Reply #45 on: July 04, 2015, 04:29:24 AM »
Shooting Mrs. Liberty in the face right now in Icon with a very complex set of commands that I'm not even sure how it works anymore LoL!

I want to see this work in PC if possible, but hopefully with a slicker tech set / not as hackish.

Requires CoxMacroDrive, and might not work for you.
(bind_load, accesslevel 9)
/seqbits COMBAT STRONG CAST ARCHITECT ONE$$target_name liberty$$costume_save fire1.0.POWERS.COLDCONTROL.ICEBLAST.fx$$costume_save delaycmd.1.seqbits-BRAWLING-QUICK-HIT-WEAPON$$costume_save delaycmd.1.unselect
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Takinalis

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Re: Testing the Waters/Interest
« Reply #46 on: July 04, 2015, 04:43:45 AM »
Hell, just fire1 working will be AWESOME if other people can see it.

In your c:\
folder make a file called tfx.txt
Save an Fx in it. "POWERS/COLDCONTROL/ICEBLAST.fx"

Use the /fire1 command.

This won't play in aiming or reaction animations, but it does hit the target and play the power fx.
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Nyghtshade

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Re: Testing the Waters/Interest
« Reply #47 on: July 04, 2015, 05:22:30 AM »
Definitely check out the typical RP sites--Pocket D, Atlas Park, etc. Offer up in chat if anyone would like to RP, or ask and see if any are happening. You can also be passive about it, RPing by yourself to start: make a post describing what the character is up to and check if anyone joins in.

I'm quite sure a group will take you under their wing without hesitation, as well.  :)
You might check out Gemini Park in Galaxy City, too - one of the original RP gathering spots in the game. 

Lycantropus

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Re: Testing the Waters/Interest
« Reply #48 on: July 04, 2015, 05:49:38 AM »
My *first* goal isn't powers. It's dice. The Dice emote is a good place to start.

Having said that, I seem to remember a 'fire1' command in Icon I'd like to see functional in PC at some point ;)

Yup, There's the 6 sided die (and the unlockable 'cheater' roll 7 die)

The coin flip

Rock, Paper, Scissors

And the scorecards from 1 to 10

However, unless they're set up as full emotes with the random element they're just selectable for the number or side (at least that's how it is in Icon, not sure if that will be different in Paragon Chat)... Can still work with that, though... particularly the rock/paper/scissors, which has been used in LARP systems as the 'random' element.

May not be able to use powers, but if it's like Icon we can still set up macros for those emotes for quick combat/skill resolution. :) Like I said, before I start getting heavy into rules/play design, I want to see what we have to work with first, though I already have ideas sketched out in my head based on the if's and or's.

Lyc~

Vr2Lrose

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Re: Testing the Waters/Interest
« Reply #49 on: July 04, 2015, 06:13:23 AM »
rp spot predictions:

Pocket D is the obvious one,and will probibly be THE place to meet for BarRP and pick up RP
dont forget monkey fight club tiki room and ski chalet...

Now that there arent mobs/level and quest restrictions and hopfully limited areas like PdP and ski chalet will be opened year round.


Midnighters Club popular spot for people  who didnt like pocket D.
Ouraborus
RWZ (they stopped rping there be cause it became a hub for endgame raids)
Atlas was known more for Costume contests but  there was places you could find RP
Port Oaks very piratey and close to the D.
St martial had a lot of very themed senic spots for rp    has A vegas area and a carnival.
Croatoa was a favorate spot of Vampire/WOD rp.
People may have hated hallows in live due to the mobs  it would make an excelent spot for more D&D style rp.


Gemini park in galaxy was so well known for rp before they added pocket d they added a plaque
Paragon Dance party  not many people knew wherevit was but they probibly will now

Takinalis

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Re: Testing the Waters/Interest
« Reply #50 on: July 04, 2015, 06:33:29 AM »
We may be able to make some use of the in game browser

The command is 'url' with a web address as a parameter [not web].  If someone creates a simple dice log website (maybe even some simple rules tracking) that might be a nice start
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Leandro

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Re: Testing the Waters/Interest
« Reply #51 on: July 04, 2015, 02:10:36 PM »
Takinalis: /url works in Titan Icon because it messes with the client memory to put dev-only commands in player reach (you need to use /accesslevel 9 first). It won't work in Paragon Chat, because it doesn't modify the client in any way.

Titan Icon and Paragon Chat are different projects that don't share any code, so don't assume that what works in one will work in the other.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2015, 02:39:15 PM by Leandro »

Arcana

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Re: Testing the Waters/Interest
« Reply #52 on: July 04, 2015, 07:19:47 PM »
Takinalis: /url works in Titan Icon because it messes with the client memory to put dev-only commands in player reach (you need to use /accesslevel 9 first). It won't work in Paragon Chat, because it doesn't modify the client in any way.

To be precise, if I understand the architectures involved, and to expand on the explanation, neither Icon nor Paragon Chat alter any of the game client files.  That means they can coexist with one copy of the client, since in both cases Icon and Paragon Chat just need the client files, but don't touch them.

However, Icon tampers with the running state of the client, which allows Icon to trick the game client into running even though there are no servers.  It also tricks the client into allowing things that would ordinarily require enhanced permissions normal game players didn't have, but developers had either with special characters on the live servers or when running the game client in developer mode to test game development.

Paragon Chat, on the other hand, doesn't tamper with the running state of the game client, so the client actually thinks its running normally.  Paragon Chat itself emulates enough of the client-server protocol to trick the game client into thinking it has actually connected to a real server.  The problem is that Paragon Chat itself doesn't yet understand everything a game client can do, so it cannot send the right messages to make certain things happen, like tell the game client that your character is currently flying (and thus to set the FLY bit and enable that movement mode).  It also cannot tell the game client to allow things that Icon could enable by messing with the memory state of the game client.

Because Paragon Chat is in effect implementing the same features by a completely different means - figuring out the right network traffic to send in the right order and in the right way and with the right state persistence - that Icon did by just flipping a couple of bits in the game client's memory, *everything* that Icon did besides a few things related to how players entered input and saw motion has to be recreated from scratch.  Which means if Icon did it, Paragon Chat probably could do it in theory, but its also true that just because Icon does it, doesn't mean Paragon Chat will do it, or even that Codewalker is currently capable of enabling it.  For many features there might be a ton of work between here and there.

Why the difference?  Because when its just you, you can play tricks with the game client to make it do anything.  But when its part of a multi-user system like Paragon Chat, anything you do by hacking the local client might not  be seen by everyone else, which defeats the purpose.  Everything that happens must happen with actual network traffic and client-server messages, so they can be sent to everyone else in the right way so everyone sees (roughly) the same thing.  And that's why Paragon Chat has to start from scratch.

MWRuger

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Re: Testing the Waters/Interest
« Reply #53 on: July 04, 2015, 09:31:58 PM »
Thanks for the suggestions everyone! I will most certainly try it.
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MomentaryGrace

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Re: Testing the Waters/Interest
« Reply #54 on: July 13, 2015, 10:32:23 PM »
...
Because Paragon Chat is in effect implementing the same features by a completely different means - figuring out the right network traffic to send in the right order and in the right way and with the right state persistence - that Icon did by just flipping a couple of bits in the game client's memory, *everything* that Icon did besides a few things related to how players entered input and saw motion has to be recreated from scratch.  Which means if Icon did it, Paragon Chat probably could do it in theory, but its also true that just because Icon does it, doesn't mean Paragon Chat will do it, or even that Codewalker is currently capable of enabling it.  For many features there might be a ton of work between here and there.

Why the difference?  Because when its just you, you can play tricks with the game client to make it do anything.  But when its part of a multi-user system like Paragon Chat, anything you do by hacking the local client might not  be seen by everyone else, which defeats the purpose.  Everything that happens must happen with actual network traffic and client-server messages, so they can be sent to everyone else in the right way so everyone sees (roughly) the same thing.  And that's why Paragon Chat has to start from scratch.

Thank you for this explanation, it really helps me to understand the development issues and path (in the broad way that is what I can actually understand ;P)!

It also enhances my appreciation for the work, which can never be a bad thing. :)

 
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Zombie Hustler

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Re: Testing the Waters/Interest
« Reply #55 on: July 14, 2015, 04:47:20 AM »
When I quit in 1995, it was still running on IBM 370s chained together.  No, I am not making that up.  There were plans to replace it, but as long as I was there, those plans never came to fruition.  I think they were afraid to blow on that particular house of profitable cards.

As far as I am aware, this is still the case. I remember hearing a report on NPR not too long ago (less than a year) talking about this very thing, and how it was beginning to finally start showing signs of being unsustainable and a source of a lot of booking problems and grounded flights.

(It might have been more than a year, come to think of it, that I heard that story. I doubt much has changed since, either way.)

Sometimes I think it would be better if we booked flights by logging into World of Warcraft and just camped the spawn point for our seat assignment.

You should pitch them this idea. Especially if the terminals were live WoW farms as people tried to book seats.