Author Topic: I want to cry...  (Read 19195 times)

Eoraptor

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I want to cry...
« on: June 25, 2015, 06:10:40 PM »
...tears of joy. It's not truly the game it was... but, it's still such a huge step up from wandering around a dead city with only zombie NPCs for company. Finally a way for the various COH survivor communities and successor projects to really get back online together and just have fun in our game!

THANK YOU
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Reaper

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Re: I want to cry...
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2015, 06:20:03 PM »
Patiently lurking from the shadows...

Paragon Avenger

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Re: I want to cry...
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2015, 01:43:51 AM »
On the one hand, all we will be able to do is make costumes, walk around the city and talk to each other.
On the other hand, all we could do in ICON was make costumes and fly around the city.
So, on balance, we can dis each other's costumes.  Now that's progress.

But seriously, it will make the ICON exprience better.

Victoria Victrix

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Re: I want to cry...
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2015, 03:43:11 AM »
On the one hand, all we will be able to do is make costumes, walk around the city and talk to each other.
On the other hand, all we could do in ICON was make costumes and fly around the city.
So, on balance, we can dis each other's costumes.  Now that's progress.

But seriously, it will make the ICON exprience better.

OK now that CW and Leo have leaked it in the FAAAQ, I can reveal/remind you that......

You will be able to base-build.  Not in 1.0 but probably not too far from now.

And You will be able to get your bases back if you ever did a demo-record in them.

Sweet Jeebus Cluny Frog on a pogo stick....wait until all the Minecraft addicts find out about this.....
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Paragon Avenger

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Re: I want to cry...
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2015, 04:45:47 AM »
Base Builds, the avenger likes.

Victoria Victrix

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Re: I want to cry...
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2015, 07:27:38 AM »
Base Builds, the avenger likes.

And you will no longer be limited to how big/how much stuff you can put in a base by your lack of pre$tige, because it will all be free.
I will go down with this ship.  I won't put my hands up in surrender.  There will be no white flag above my door.  I'm in love, and always will be.  Dido

Kyriani

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Re: I want to cry...
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2015, 08:39:17 AM »
I don't have any demorecordings (I never did learn how to muck about with all that stuff), but I sure as heck am gonna dive into base building again once Paragon Chat goes live! ^_^

Arcana

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Re: I want to cry...
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2015, 08:49:22 AM »
I don't have any demorecordings (I never did learn how to muck about with all that stuff), but I sure as heck am gonna dive into base building again once Paragon Chat goes live! ^_^

Its a pity you missed those discussions on the forums as shutdown approached.  All you needed to do was enter your base and record a single second of demorecord (/demorecord filename) because at the very beginning of that demorecord the game placed an encoded copy of your base design for the client to use to represent the map the demorecord was recorded on. 

Also, with the free-flight camera feature that was slipped into the game client that Black Pebble outed to the community before shutdown, even prior to Icon it was possible to fly around any base that was demorecorded because you could pause the demorecord and then move the camera anywhere within the base (like you could with any map).  I suspect free-flight camera mode was at least in part inspiration for Codewalker to create Icon in the first place, since free-flight camera mode implies the game client has 90% of the capability of Icon already built in, and just needed it unlocked and properly accessible.

Kyriani

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Re: I want to cry...
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2015, 09:22:37 AM »
Its a pity you missed those discussions on the forums as shutdown approached.  All you needed to do was enter your base and record a single second of demorecord (/demorecord filename) because at the very beginning of that demorecord the game placed an encoded copy of your base design for the client to use to represent the map the demorecord was recorded on. 

Also, with the free-flight camera feature that was slipped into the game client that Black Pebble outed to the community before shutdown, even prior to Icon it was possible to fly around any base that was demorecorded because you could pause the demorecord and then move the camera anywhere within the base (like you could with any map).  I suspect free-flight camera mode was at least in part inspiration for Codewalker to create Icon in the first place, since free-flight camera mode implies the game client has 90% of the capability of Icon already built in, and just needed it unlocked and properly accessible.

Maybe one day I'll take a a look at that democrecording stuff... that is... um, can we demorecord in Icon?

Dollmistress

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Re: I want to cry...
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2015, 11:17:30 AM »
Am I the only one who's realised that there's one other thing people could do besides chat?

We could hold ski races in Pocket D! :D

The slopes still work just fine, all you need is a judge at the bottom waiting for arrivals.

Also if base building appears then it will be possible to once again create vast floor-to-ceiling maze maps for people to get lost in.

Finally, if PVP is eventually cracked then there's not much in the way of someone in charge of the game introducing a couple of fake players on to a map, controlled by simple bot code whilst levelled to ridiculous power and skinned as any of the GMs.

Nyghtshade

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Re: I want to cry...
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2015, 01:17:18 PM »
I was so excited by the social and RP features here that I thought I would burst!  But to hear that we can get our bases back -- SQUEEE !!

I know I've said it before, but many many many thanks to Codewalker and everyone involved in the Paragon Chat project.  This Christmas is going to be amazing!!

Codewalker

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Re: I want to cry...
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2015, 01:18:21 PM »
The slopes still work just fine, all you need is a judge at the bottom waiting for arrivals.

Do they? I remember the slopes being somewhat broken in Icon.

For one, the teleport was missing. That may actually work now, I need to check. When I added in-zone doors it magically made a lot of that kind of stuff start working for "free", such as the teleports at the bottom of Ouroboros and the Shard, as those are usually implemented as volume-based doors.

I don't remember, is there a jump pad / gravity geyser on part of the track? If so, that would be missing as well since it depends on serverside spawndefs. If it's only one, I might be able to add it in manually for the slope in a manner similar to how we did the Ascendant memorial.

FloatingFatMan

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Re: I want to cry...
« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2015, 02:35:27 PM »
I don't remember, is there a jump pad / gravity geyser on part of the track? If so, that would be missing as well since it depends on serverside spawndefs. If it's only one, I might be able to add it in manually for the slope in a manner similar to how we did the Ascendant memorial.

There's 2 routes IIRC, 1 has either a jump pad or a teleport, I forget which...  There's also the jump pads at the foot of the slope to get people back up to the top.

Codewalker

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Re: I want to cry...
« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2015, 02:50:33 PM »
One route definitely has a teleport that takes you to the top of the second portion, I remember it because it's the route I always took, and it definitely did not work in Icon.

What I don't remember is if the other route had a jump pad in its place to get up to the second segment or if it used some alternate method.

FloatingFatMan

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Re: I want to cry...
« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2015, 02:56:58 PM »
One route definitely has a teleport that takes you to the top of the second portion, I remember it because it's the route I always took, and it definitely did not work in Icon.

What I don't remember is if the other route had a jump pad in its place to get up to the second segment or if it used some alternate method.

I think it was a jump pad, tbh.

Arcana

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Re: I want to cry...
« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2015, 05:22:33 PM »
Am I the only one who's realised that there's one other thing people could do besides chat?

No.

Quote
Finally, if PVP is eventually cracked then there's not much in the way of someone in charge of the game introducing a couple of fake players on to a map, controlled by simple bot code whilst levelled to ridiculous power and skinned as any of the GMs.

I have a list of the things in the way.  And that's actually backwards.  First the bot, then the power execution, and then maybe long after that, opt-in PvP.  PvBot is going to be far easier than PvP for a variety of reasons, from the griefing potential being something the Paragon Chat team would likely shy away from in this kind of system, to the fact that the same mechanics designed to make chatting more efficient would make any kind of simulated combat trickier to execute.

But as I said: I have a list.

FloatingFatMan

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Re: I want to cry...
« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2015, 05:28:21 PM »
But as I said: I have a list.

But have you checked it twice? ;)

Arcana

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Re: I want to cry...
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2015, 05:32:47 PM »

Arcana

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Re: I want to cry...
« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2015, 06:01:17 PM »
But have you checked it twice? ;)

Yes.

I should point out, not only have I put significant thought into how one might go about making at least some of the combat mechanics work in Paragon Chat, I've also put significant thought into why you'd want to do that.  Or rather why I'd want to do that.

Paragon Chat isn't a chat system, or rather its not *just* a chat system.  Codewalker and company have built a platform.  And platforms can be powerful things.  Within days of announcing it, and without even releasing it, Codewalker got players thinking about using it as a virtual environment to run pen and paper games, with just some minor extensions to help with PnP mechanics (vis a vis dice rolls).

There's several successor games in various stages of development.  There's a group of players trying to actually acquire the rights to the actual game itself.  And I'm certain Codewalker hasn't stopped thinking about how to make a real server that does real combat and runs real missions.  So why bother adding combat mechanics to Paragon Chat?

Well, because Paragon Chat is a relatively open platform.  For all its limitations, its far easier to tinker with than even the real game was.  There are things we could make PC do that would be much more difficult to do even if we had the actual game servers back.  Consider for example making animations.  If you're a budding Samuraiko, the learning curve to make videos in the actual City of Heroes game was pretty steep.  Separate from all the post production, just getting what you wanted out of the game itself was a lot of work.  It usually involved a combination of having real people log into the game and do things you could record, combined with editing demorecord files and seeing if you could get the playback exactly the way you wanted.

Imagine if you had a platform that looked exactly like City of Heroes, worked basically like City of Heroes, but every single entity within it was a bot, fully controlled by relatively easy to write scripts.  Furthermore, you could edit what was going on on the fly and see in real time what your changes did.  Having powers work in some capacity could make that a reality.  You wouldn't even need to write the scripts yourself: you could have someone write some basic ones for you that you could then modify to get the behaviors you want.

What if you liked City of Heroes, but were a budding Positron instead and wanted to design your own game.  With Paragon Chat, some critical modifications for powers, and a lot of bots, you could make your own MUD.  You could even run the thing out of your own house, and let friends play it.

Paragon Chat will never replace having the actual game back.  The architecture is likely going to impose limits on how closely and with what fidelity you could recreate City of Heroes itself.  But as a (relatively) open platform for experimentation, its actually superior to the game itself.  The community itself could do a lot, without Codewalker having to write it all.  That would leave him free to maybe do more interesting things.

After he gets my list done, of course.  But after that, Paragon Chat could become the Paragon Platform for the community to contribute to itself.  We've only been brainstorming around this for about a week.  Who knows what great idea someone out there has, but has no way of realizing it now, because they are not a Codewalker-class client hacker.  But almost anyone with any programming experience whatsoever in any language whatsoever could learn to write a Paragon Chat bot, and could run their own XMPP server to try out ideas.  Most will suck.  But a few won't.  It would be nice to know what they are.  And every good idea will probably spawn a couple more.

Felderburg

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Re: I want to cry...
« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2015, 06:07:51 PM »
And you will no longer be limited to how big/how much stuff you can put in a base by your lack of pre$tige, because it will all be free.

I may have cackled a little.

However, limits based on prestige could be nice, in that limits on what you can build direct creativity in specific ways.
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Lycantropus

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Re: I want to cry...
« Reply #20 on: June 27, 2015, 06:18:19 PM »
OK now that CW and Leo have leaked it in the FAAAQ, I can reveal/remind you that......

You will be able to base-build.  Not in 1.0 but probably not too far from now.

And You will be able to get your bases back if you ever did a demo-record in them.

Sweet Jeebus Cluny Frog on a pogo stick....wait until all the Minecraft addicts find out about this.....
I really look forward to this. :) I could spend hours in base building mode.

Never got into Minecraft, but I did love my CoH bases (and yes, I have demorecords of them!)

I have so many requests for that functionality (like being able to build in the doorways and such, and making moving/elevating pieces easier- I love the stacking desk as much as the next builder but...) but let's just get bases first ;)

The more I think about what they can do with this... As Arcana said, this is a *platform* on which to build in all kinds of directions... and my little non-programmy self is listening to all the excited people who are programmy talk about what they might can do.... SO EXCITED!

Lyc~

Acanous

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Re: I want to cry...
« Reply #21 on: June 27, 2015, 06:31:08 PM »
Wait wait.... Ascendant memorial? With Tre's online memorial coming down next month, I am very interested in seeing this.
Whereabouts is it?

Codewalker

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Re: I want to cry...
« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2015, 06:57:28 PM »
Wait wait.... Ascendant memorial? With Tre's online memorial coming down next month, I am very interested in seeing this.
Whereabouts is it?

Blyde Square in Steel, standing next to the payphone. I was going to leave it as an easter egg for people to find, but since a picture was featured in the interview I figure the cat's out of the bag. :)

Nyghtshade

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Re: I want to cry...
« Reply #23 on: June 27, 2015, 10:29:08 PM »
Regarding bases, here's a question:  If you were a member of a SG/VG, and did a demo-record of the SG/VG base, you should eventually restore that in Paragon Chat.

But what if you also had a small personal "base"?  For instance, many SG members also created their own 'apartments' for RP purposes, as well.

Will we be able to have both?  Or will we need to choose between the SG base or the personal one?

Zombie Hustler

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Re: I want to cry...
« Reply #24 on: June 28, 2015, 02:32:19 AM »
This is pretty cool. I can't wait to hang out in Praetoria now with everyone else!!!  ;D





(Hopes Praetoria won't be as empty as it was on the live servers.  :'()

AlwaysAPrice

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Re: I want to cry...
« Reply #25 on: June 28, 2015, 06:57:01 AM »
Paragon Chat will never replace having the actual game back.  The architecture is likely going to impose limits on how closely and with what fidelity you could recreate City of Heroes itself.  But as a (relatively) open platform for experimentation, its actually superior to the game itself.  The community itself could do a lot, without Codewalker having to write it all.  That would leave him free to maybe do more interesting things.

After he gets my list done, of course.  But after that, Paragon Chat could become the Paragon Platform for the community to contribute to itself.  We've only been brainstorming around this for about a week.  Who knows what great idea someone out there has, but has no way of realizing it now, because they are not a Codewalker-class client hacker.  But almost anyone with any programming experience whatsoever in any language whatsoever could learn to write a Paragon Chat bot, and could run their own XMPP server to try out ideas.  Most will suck.  But a few won't.  It would be nice to know what they are.  And every good idea will probably spawn a couple more.

This is what has me most giddy about Paragon Chat. I found my peace with losing the game sometime between the announcement and the actual shutdown, but the idea of getting a form of CoH back that I can let my modding/scripting/tinkering impulses run wild on, now that's just...I'm positively atingle.

Codewalker

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Re: I want to cry...
« Reply #26 on: June 28, 2015, 06:00:59 PM »
Regarding bases, here's a question:  If you were a member of a SG/VG, and did a demo-record of the SG/VG base, you should eventually restore that in Paragon Chat.

But what if you also had a small personal "base"?  For instance, many SG members also created their own 'apartments' for RP purposes, as well.

Will we be able to have both?  Or will we need to choose between the SG base or the personal one?

Won't know the answer to that until we figure out how we're going to implement them. At the moment bases are an entry on a list of items we want to tackle soon after the first release.

I suspect that they won't be tied to supergroups at all really and will be similar to loading up a mission map. However I know there are some things in client that are hardcoded to assume the player's SG exists, such as placing the banners in the editor. So we'll see.

Felderburg

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Re: I want to cry...
« Reply #27 on: June 28, 2015, 06:49:22 PM »
Wait wait.... Ascendant memorial? With Tre's online memorial coming down next month, I am very interested in seeing this.
Whereabouts is it?

Why would an online memorial come down? I don't mean just Ascendant's specifically, but in general.
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FloatingFatMan

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Re: I want to cry...
« Reply #28 on: June 28, 2015, 06:50:24 PM »
Why would an online memorial come down? I don't mean just Ascendant's specifically, but in general.

Hosting costs perhaps?

Aggelakis

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Re: I want to cry...
« Reply #29 on: June 28, 2015, 10:09:49 PM »
Why would an online memorial come down? I don't mean just Ascendant's specifically, but in general.
IIRC his memorial was through a local newspaper or the funeral home his family used, on *that business's* website. They typically only keep their memorials active for one to three years. I haven't seen one that keeps them longer than three years (not that they don't exist, I've just never seen it).
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MaidMercury

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Re: I want to cry...
« Reply #30 on: June 28, 2015, 11:01:05 PM »
Not sure if I was using Issue24..........I do remember Atlas being updated.
I played Summer events, I also purchased and was using 'Going Rogue'
I bought some stuff off the new shopping menu, like rocketpack.
I could toss a frisbee...


if that means anything  :o

Victoria Victrix

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Re: I want to cry...
« Reply #31 on: June 29, 2015, 04:07:25 AM »
Why would an online memorial come down? I don't mean just Ascendant's specifically, but in general.

It's hosted by the funeral home/local paper.  Normally only up for three months.  I paid for 2 years instead of sending flowers.
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Tipsy

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Re: I want to cry...
« Reply #32 on: June 29, 2015, 06:17:32 AM »
What if you liked City of Heroes, but were a budding Positron instead and wanted to design your own game.  With Paragon Chat, some critical modifications for powers, and a lot of bots, you could make your own MUD.  You could even run the thing out of your own house, and let friends play it.

Paragon Chat will never replace having the actual game back.  The architecture is likely going to impose limits on how closely and with what fidelity you could recreate City of Heroes itself.  But as a (relatively) open platform for experimentation, its actually superior to the game itself.  The community itself could do a lot, without Codewalker having to write it all.  That would leave him free to maybe do more interesting things.

This is the first thing I thought about when this was announced, and why I'm so excited.  With some 'GM' features (like making rooms and casting NPCs), this essentially creates the possibility for the world's best online RP, as it combines CoH's already-existing environment: a robust character creator, a good chat interface, and a huge host of settings.

duane

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Re: I want to cry...
« Reply #33 on: July 02, 2015, 02:09:05 PM »
I resisted Icon all this time.  I appreciate the effort but I want the full game and community back and not just pieces.  Please do not take any offense to this, but the game closure was pretty tough for me.

I was home alone this week on vacation and I loaded the Paragon Chat/Icon client.   It has been nice visiting Atlas Park again--even the ambient sounds and the music.  Thank you for doing this for the community.

FloatingFatMan

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Re: I want to cry...
« Reply #34 on: July 02, 2015, 02:11:03 PM »
It was tough on ALL of us, that's why we're all still here.

Paragon Chat isn't out yet, what you played with was Icon.  when PC comes out it'll be a different program you start, and there will be people around to chat to!  It'll be totally a different experience to Icon... There will be LIFE!

Solitaire

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Re: I want to cry...
« Reply #35 on: July 02, 2015, 02:13:03 PM »
It was tough on ALL of us, that's why we're all still here.

Paragon Chat isn't out yet, what you played with was Icon.  when PC comes out it'll be a different program you start, and there will be people around to chat to!  It'll be totally a different experience to Icon... There will be LIFE!

But not as we know it!  ;)

FloatingFatMan

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Re: I want to cry...
« Reply #36 on: July 02, 2015, 02:17:42 PM »

Solitaire

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Re: I want to cry...
« Reply #37 on: July 02, 2015, 02:20:32 PM »

FloatingFatMan

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Re: I want to cry...
« Reply #38 on: July 02, 2015, 02:23:23 PM »
If only you could see what I've seen with your eyes!

Look, I can explain about the sheep, alright? :P


Nyghtshade

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Re: I want to cry...
« Reply #39 on: July 02, 2015, 09:05:12 PM »
Look, I can explain about the sheep, alright? :P
Were they electric sheep?   ;)

Arcana

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Re: I want to cry...
« Reply #40 on: July 02, 2015, 10:20:10 PM »
Look, I can explain about the sheep, alright? :P

Don't want to know.

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Re: I want to cry...
« Reply #41 on: July 03, 2015, 09:11:09 AM »
I find it easier not  to think of this as City  the MMO per say  but I prefer to think of it as a NEW  program that is focusing on Role-play and Community there are a lot of mmos out there and the role-play/customizability/Socialization  often takes a back seat cause the  developers are expected to add content, events, and  new powers, and "balance" pvp.

Paragonchat wont have to compete with New mmos because it is something new and  difference  something that is severely lacking in todays "Entertain me, I am Bored"  internet atmosphere. It will be a Place for REAL social connections  not just "hey help me  kill this boss and let me friend you" and a place for Real creativity rather than reading how to do the new dungeon on Google.

There is a reason  that Muds (a text based mmo) are very rare now but Mushes( a mud with no combat), Chatrooms like  IMVU, and Facebook type sites are all the rage right now. even if they do make a full combat city of heroes2 down the line I think Paragon Chat  may revolutionalize the chatroom industry  the  way  WOW revolutionalized MMOs.

Vee

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Re: I want to cry...
« Reply #42 on: July 03, 2015, 09:38:30 AM »
I think we already know everything we always wanted to know about the sheep and then some.


Arcana

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Re: I want to cry...
« Reply #43 on: July 03, 2015, 09:48:51 AM »
I find it easier not  to think of this as City  the MMO per say

Excellent, because its not and will likely never become.  That will have to wait for something entirely new (or old, as the case may be).

MWRuger

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Re: I want to cry...
« Reply #44 on: July 03, 2015, 03:25:54 PM »
Its a pity you missed those discussions on the forums as shutdown approached.  All you needed to do was enter your base and record a single second of demorecord (/demorecord filename) because at the very beginning of that demorecord the game placed an encoded copy of your base design for the client to use to represent the map the demorecord was recorded on. ...


Reading this thread and this post I was inspired to snoop around my hardrives and see if I could locate the recordings I made of bases the last night. I found them so I am ready to go (as SoonTM as we can do bases in Paragon Chat).
« Last Edit: July 03, 2015, 05:39:20 PM by MWRuger »
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Return of CoH - Oh My God! It looks like it can happen!

Nyx Nought Nothing

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Re: I want to cry...
« Reply #45 on: July 03, 2015, 03:55:31 PM »
But not as we know it!  ;)
Not as we know it, Captain!
So far so good. Onward and upward!

peachypeach

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Re: I want to cry...
« Reply #46 on: July 09, 2015, 12:23:53 AM »
Reaper, I saw your bot. Js.
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laufeyjarson

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Re: I want to cry...
« Reply #47 on: July 09, 2015, 02:17:01 AM »
I think we already know everything we always wanted to know about the sheep and then some.



See also: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yD18Y-pIGFQ

Paragon Avenger

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Re: I want to cry...
« Reply #48 on: July 09, 2015, 03:35:41 AM »
Yes, but the sheep can cook better than my last girlfriend.

ricodah

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Re: I want to cry...
« Reply #49 on: July 09, 2015, 03:51:55 AM »
The only way I could think of to thank you is to buy you coffee. Which someone pointed out in Paragon Chat to get a round of beer instead.  Cheers!

Zortel

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Re: I want to cry...
« Reply #50 on: July 10, 2015, 09:07:54 AM »
I tried not to dream that I'd stand in Pocket D again, it would have been too painful. But that's what I've been doing the past two evenings.

Feels good, yo.
Wheel of Alts, turn turn turn, who shall I play? Nobody knows!

Kassandros

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Re: I want to cry...
« Reply #51 on: July 11, 2015, 03:37:48 AM »
I was in Pocket D dancing with a bunch of other people when the game got shut down. It felt triumphant to return and for a bunch of other people to be there. I don't really know any of you personally - I mostly just played CoV with a friend of mine - but, yeah, it felt pretty special. Thanks so much for the hard work of everyone who made this possible.

And seeing Null the Gull again... almost cried.

Paragon Avenger

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Re: I want to cry...
« Reply #52 on: July 11, 2015, 03:54:44 AM »
And seeing Null the Gull ... almost cried.

Yeah, that is one ugly bird.  No, wait you meant, oh well.