Author Topic: Fan Projects (Icon, Paragon Chat, etc.)  (Read 2200 times)

Felderburg

  • Ask me how I got this title!
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,603
  • Personal text? What's that?
Fan Projects (Icon, Paragon Chat, etc.)
« on: July 02, 2015, 02:21:06 PM »
So in the talk page for the "Titan Network Projects" category that I created so that Titan Icon would have at least one category, I have a question:

Quote from: Felderburg on the Wiki
So Titan Icon has its own article, which is good for people who want to learn about it. I figured it should have a category, so I created this one. Then I started thinking about the fact that "Titan Network Projects" encompasses CoH Faces, CIT, MIDs, etc. None of them have their own articles, and while it seems rather self-indulgent to give them articles, it would add to the completeness of the category. Plus, you've got SEGS out there as well, which could be a noteworthy player-made effort. I suppose the question I'm getting at is this: how much player-created content (Titan and otherwise) do we want on the Wiki, and where is the "noteworthiness" line drawn?
I used CIT before they even joined the Titan network! But then I left for a long ol' time, and came back. Now I edit the wiki.

I'm working on sorting the Lore AMAs so that questions are easily found and linked: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Lore_AMA/Sorted Tell me what you think!

Pinnacle: The only server that faceplants before a fight! Member of the Pinnacle RP Congress (People's Elf of the CCCP); formerly @The Holy Flame

Sekoia

  • Titan Network Admin
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,828
Re: Fan Projects (Icon, Paragon Chat, etc.)
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2015, 08:55:13 PM »
That's an excellent question.

Player-created content has typically been barred from Paragon Wiki as being unsuitable. But that's typically been for things like player canon and supergroups. This is a different kind of thing.

We do have precedent for other kinds of player-contributed content though. We document how you can implement a Browser Search Plugin for various fan sites and mention the mapping projects. We also have an entire category for Player Guides. And we have some notable events, such as the Unity Rally.

Personally, I think items that are oriented around the game are fine, but items that are oriented around the community should be excluded. So for example, I can see including SEGS, Mids, Titan Icon, Paragon Chat, Sentinel, and Senticon. But I wouldn't include CoH Faces. The first set of items are all either tools for helping you play the game or work with game data or are projects that aim to restore access to the game in some manner. Faces, however, is purely a community site. I also wouldn't create an article to the Titan forums; again, it's a community site. I think CIT is more borderline: it is a kind of tool, but somehow it doesn't seem to fit with the others to me (I can't put my finger on why though).

I definitely don't think we should create articles just to flesh out the category. If we have interesting or notable things to document for a project, then sure. But otherwise, I wouldn't worry about it.

I can also see including articles for past, defunct tools that were notable, such as previous build planners. However, I don't think we should open it up to every little utility script anybody has ever written. It has to be notable, which of course is subjective.

Related though somewhat tangential, I would exclude successor projects from having individual pages. The wiki is focused on City of Heroes, not its successors. The most I could see is a single "Successor Projects" article.


Aggelakis

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,001
Re: Fan Projects (Icon, Paragon Chat, etc.)
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2015, 02:53:36 AM »
I think CIT is more borderline: it is a kind of tool, but somehow it doesn't seem to fit with the others to me (I can't put my finger on why though).
It's Faces, for your characters. It's not a tool, it's a community-focused information display.
Bob Dole!! Bob Dole. Bob Dole! Bob Dole. Bob Dole. Bob Dole... Bob Dole... Bob... Dole...... Bob...


ParagonWiki
OuroPortal

Aggelakis

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,001
Re: Fan Projects (Icon, Paragon Chat, etc.)
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2015, 02:55:16 AM »
I have no interest in adding more pages for City's tools unless people are actively using them. MIDS, Icon, Paragon Chat - yes. Anything else? No, unless you can show activity surrounding it, in which case it could be suggested for inclusion.
Bob Dole!! Bob Dole. Bob Dole! Bob Dole. Bob Dole. Bob Dole... Bob Dole... Bob... Dole...... Bob...


ParagonWiki
OuroPortal

Felderburg

  • Ask me how I got this title!
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,603
  • Personal text? What's that?
Re: Fan Projects (Icon, Paragon Chat, etc.)
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2015, 01:20:43 AM »
Having written a bunch, I think it's worth noting that there's what amounts to a TL;DR at the bottom of this post.




I think it's been pretty nice to have the wiki article for Titan Icon as a go-to link, rather than the forums, which have countless topics and might be hard for someone unfamiliar with them to navigate. So for something like Icon or Paragon Chat, I think the wiki provides an important service. Other things, perhaps it would be nice to have an article for, but it's not as useful / important.

It is worth noting that the existing Article Guidelines have prohibitions against "Player-initiated events" and "Player-developed software or utilities" (amongst other things). It directs readers to the Community Portal for content like that. Given that Titan Icon and AP33 violate those rules, I think we should expand on them or add specific exceptions. (And the Community Portal is in dire need of updating, although I'm not sure what the threshold for removing SG websites would be, if their community is still active on those sites, and other things like that. Lots of definct sites could go, though.)




Anyways, seems to me that there's a reasonable set of notability threshold requirements for a player made event or project to get its own article off the Community portal in this thread:

  • The project is not fan fiction, player canon, player supergroups, and the like.
   This is existing policy, and there are other sites that cover such content. The one exception to this rule would be if a player created hero or story was given official recognition, by winning a contest or something similar. (I added this rule just to get all the player-created content rules. The next three are the ones relevant to this discussion, so I don't really mention this below.)
  • The project needs to be used for playing the game or accessing the client.
   "Playing the game" here means that a project is used to enhance or help with the playing experience, such as character builders or map UI downloads. "Accessing the client" is included here because demos and Titan Icon are arguably not "playing the game," but allow players to further their experience with the game itself.
  • The project should not be a community oriented project.
   "Community oriented" meaning that a project is designed for players to share things about themselves or their characters, or to network with each other outside of the game. Although any project has output that can be shared with the community (such as screenshots from in game) those items are incidental to game-focused projects, whereas sharing is the main purpose of a community oriented project.
  • If a project or event is extremely significant or is being actively used, the first two requirements can be bent a bit.
   "Extremely" is the key word here. This means that the project or event had a major impact on the majority of the player base. The Unity Rally and /jranger are two examples that are already on the wiki. Something that is being "actively used" is being used by significant amounts of the player base, and the Wiki is providing an article partly due to that significance, and partly to provide a service to the community - namely, collecting information on a project in one place so that it is easy to find and begin using.



We can go down the list of projects and events and examine them based on these rules:

  • Titan Icon
   Is used to access the client. Is not community focused. Is being actively used and is very significant. (The ability to create and save costumes offline would also certainly be an enhancement to the gameplay experience if the game was around.)
  • SEGS
   As an emulator, this is arguably used to play the game or access the client. It is also the only known emulator effort (even if it is for Issue 4 or so) so I would argue that that is significant. Certainly significant enough to warrant a mention in a "player created things" type article.
  • MIDs
   As a tool for character building, this is used to enhance the gameplay experience / play the game. It is not community focused, although builds can be shared. I would argue it also had a major impact, and it is still being actively used.
  • CoH Faces
   Has nothing to do with the game or the client, is community oriented, and isn't all that active (last time I checked). Already linked in the Community Portal.
  • Sentinel / Senticon
   This was indeed used to access the client / game server, but it was not used to enhance the existing gameplay experience, nor was it intended for recreating characters in any official revival of the game. While it was used by a lot of players, many didn't hear about it, and given the fact that Titan Icon allows people to recreate costumes anyways (the only thing Sentinel is used for right now) I would say this isn't exactly significant enough for its own article. Perhaps an article detailing shutdown-related player efforts or something like that would include it as a section.
  • CIT
   While this accessed the client, it is a community oriented project. It did not enhance gameplay, and was designed for people to share things about their characters. Already linked in the Community Portal.
  • Player Guides
   Enhance the gameplay experience, and already have their own existing category. Not community oriented.
  • Red Tomax
   This is a bit borderline for "enhancing" the gameplay experience. Data is nice, but this doesn't allow players to access the client or make any modifications that would help them. It's also not really up to date. BUT it cold be argued it's a sort of "guide." It is mentioned in the community portal. Depending on how extensive the articles go, it could be mentioned on a page about player projects.
  • Ouroboros Portal
   This is inherently a community / fan creation website, so it certainly doesn't get its own article. It ought to be mentioned in the community portal under Titan network sites though, especially since it has its own sidebar link.
  • Untiy Rally
   This was certainly a significant event, and already has an article noting it as such.
  • The Immortal Game (Arcanaville's Final Event)
   This is more along the lines of fan fiction, but could be a significant enough event to merit... something. Although this barely meets significance requirements for anything, in my opinion, it could be mentioned along with Sentinel in an article or category discussing player reactions to the shutdown.
  • Paragon Chat
   Paragon Chat certainly accesses the client, although in my opinion its "enhancement" of the gameplay experience is borderline, given that it only "enhances" the currently non-existent experience. However, it is certainly ridiculously significant and the Wiki should certainly provide an article as a service to people who don't want to use the forums to get all the info they need.




In my opinion, my hastily named Titan Network Projects category ought to be renamed to something like "Player Created Projects." The category can contain articles on the few notable projects (Titan Icon, Paragon Chat, MIDs, any others) and either a brief blurb about others, or a link to the Community Portal for more info.

I'm rather partial to the category containing the three or so articles and a link to the Community Portal. But as I said above, the Community Portal needs to be updated.

I do also think there should be a mention somewhere of player reactions / events relating to the shutdown. The article would contain blurbs about AP33, Sentinel, Titan Icon, perhaps even Arcanaville's Immortal Game. It is possible this could be included in the category that I suggested be renamed.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2015, 01:33:14 AM by Felderburg »
I used CIT before they even joined the Titan network! But then I left for a long ol' time, and came back. Now I edit the wiki.

I'm working on sorting the Lore AMAs so that questions are easily found and linked: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Lore_AMA/Sorted Tell me what you think!

Pinnacle: The only server that faceplants before a fight! Member of the Pinnacle RP Congress (People's Elf of the CCCP); formerly @The Holy Flame