Author Topic: Two hairs.  (Read 8165 times)

impiousimp

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Two hairs.
« on: September 26, 2015, 08:41:05 PM »
Has anyone figured out how to have two hairs on a toon at once?

I want to have a mane going down my lion's head but not around the neck.

Is it possible to edit the database to accommodate that?

Paragon Avenger

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Re: Two hairs.
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2015, 03:06:12 AM »
Do you mean two heads?

And I don't know if that can be done.
I saw a documentary about a conjoined twin with basically 2 heads and three legs, so theoretically it should be possible.

impiousimp

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Re: Two hairs.
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2015, 05:08:35 AM »
No, two different hair meshes on the same singular head. Layered.

Shenku

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Re: Two hairs.
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2015, 02:54:28 PM »
I wouldn't think so, because I'd think they would both share the same slot/variable in the costume configuration data.

I doubt you could sub it into an alternate slot, but if you could, you'd have to database edit the second hair mesh to be applied to an unused costume piece slot, such as if you have no cape, you would apply it to the cape slot. Of course the problem would be if you have no empty slots, in which case you wouldn't be able to do this at all I don't think. But again, I don't know if that would work, or if it would break things and not display the costume correctly/at all...

impiousimp

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Re: Two hairs.
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2015, 07:16:28 PM »
I tried that, it didn't work. Sad day for all of us.

Too bad we can't use new hair meshs.

Paragon Avenger

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Re: Two hairs.
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2015, 02:35:51 AM »
Now I want a toon with two heads.

Pengy

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Re: Two hairs.
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2015, 01:20:45 PM »
I want a man with two brains.

Shenku

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Re: Two hairs.
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2015, 03:08:51 PM »
I just want to add my own meshes in general, which in theory could do exactly this, take 2 existing costume/hair meshes and combine them into a single piece, and then just drop them into the data folder like any normal texture mod...

The problem is I just don't know how to make a .geo mesh file, or what the correct bone rigging/configuration would need to be to do it so that I matches the CoH skeleton correctly...

FloatingFatMan

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Re: Two hairs.
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2015, 04:38:30 PM »

chuckv3

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Re: Two hairs.
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2015, 07:21:11 PM »
I just want to add my own meshes in general, which in theory could do exactly this, take 2 existing costume/hair meshes and combine them into a single piece, and then just drop them into the data folder like any normal texture mod...

The problem is I just don't know how to make a .geo mesh file, or what the correct bone rigging/configuration would need to be to do it so that I matches the CoH skeleton correctly...

It's possible you could just identify one of the "hat" meshes, and stick one of the "hair" meshes in it's place. Then you choose one hat and one hair, and effectively get the two "hair" you wanted.

If you are really that committed to making it work, you could always learn how to use something like blender (which is open, free, and will let you edit meshes all day long). Then you can just edit any of the hair choices you know you'll never choose, and stick the new mesh there.

Nyx Nought Nothing

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Re: Two hairs.
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2015, 08:25:05 PM »
It's possible you could just identify one of the "hat" meshes, and stick one of the "hair" meshes in it's place. Then you choose one hat and one hair, and effectively get the two "hair" you wanted.

If you are really that committed to making it work, you could always learn how to use something like blender (which is open, free, and will let you edit meshes all day long). Then you can just edit any of the hair choices you know you'll never choose, and stick the new mesh there.
Of course if you create your own custom meshes then no one else in the game/chat will ever see them. Well, except for people you convince to install the same mod. There were allegedly "naked" texture mods for CoH early on. i say allegedly because i never bothered to investigate, but i'm going to say that Rule 34 definitely applies here. Obviously no one but the player using the mod saw it, but i guess it has an appeal for some people.
So far so good. Onward and upward!

Shenku

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Re: Two hairs.
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2015, 09:46:39 PM »
If you are really that committed to making it work, you could always learn how to use something like blender (which is open, free, and will let you edit meshes all day long). Then you can just edit any of the hair choices you know you'll never choose, and stick the new mesh there.
Creating meshes is not a problem, I already know how to use both Blender, as well as 3DS Max and even a few other misc. 3D programs. Creating the mesh is easy. I'm actually pretty good at making full character meshes as it is; for example here's one I made a while back for an as yet unfinished 3D fighting/Beat 'Em Up game:

(Lower poly than I'd like, but it's a rough 3D doodle that I modeled "free style" without references for the hell of it...)


The part that I can not do at all, however, is export it from the 3D software into the correct format so that the CoH engine can read it, because I don't have a plugin to export to that format, and it's not supported natively by 3DS Max, or by Blender, I don't believe.

So unless someone outside of the now defunct Paragon Studios and NCSoft has or knows how to make a magical working .geo import/export plugin for Blender or 3DS Max, I can make all the meshes in the world, but I'll never be able to add them into this engine until such a plugin is found/made. Highly unlikely, since I think the .geo file format was a proprietary file type that Cryptic made specifically for their engine when they were first making the game, and recreating that from scratch would be a stretch. Besides, I know diddly about making import/export plugins...

Of course if you create your own custom meshes then no one else in the game/chat will ever see them. Well, except for people you convince to install the same mod. There were allegedly "naked" texture mods for CoH early on. i say allegedly because i never bothered to investigate, but i'm going to say that Rule 34 definitely applies here. Obviously no one but the player using the mod saw it, but i guess it has an appeal for some people.

There's a way to make it so everyone sees the mods/textures/models(if the above mentioned required plugin is ever made) easily, and it's actually not hard in itself. You just hand the new stuff off to the appropriate people with access and have them upload it onto the server where everyone's downloading the I24 client from through Tequila, and it'll download the files automagically. The real question though, is if it's possible to trick the engine somehow into letting us add additional costume options instead of simply overriding existing ones. Unless that could be done, any quasi-official mods would likely not be put onto the Tequila server, and would remain as optional downloads that people would need to intentionally add themselves if they want to actually see them.

And yes, I can confirm that the "naked" texture mods did in fact exist. I downloaded one of them post-shut down from an old old OLD CoH mod site mostly out of curiosity and tried it out in Icon... It was pretty terrible actually, so I'm not sure why anyone would have actively used them... It was almost like looking at a horrible nude drawing done by a blind 2 year old...

impiousimp

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Re: Two hairs.
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2015, 03:30:18 AM »
I would actually like to know how to make a mod.  I want a half mane for my lion.

Nyx Nought Nothing

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Re: Two hairs.
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2015, 05:26:42 AM »
There's a way to make it so everyone sees the mods/textures/models(if the above mentioned required plugin is ever made) easily, and it's actually not hard in itself. You just hand the new stuff off to the appropriate people with access and have them upload it onto the server where everyone's downloading the I24 client from through Tequila, and it'll download the files automagically. The real question though, is if it's possible to trick the engine somehow into letting us add additional costume options instead of simply overriding existing ones. Unless that could be done, any quasi-official mods would likely not be put onto the Tequila server, and would remain as optional downloads that people would need to intentionally add themselves if they want to actually see them.
Codewalker and crew have been explicitly avoiding modifying the CoH client files with Paragon Chat, so while it's a possibility i wouldn't bet on them doing it for the regular version. i suppose if you forked your own customized version it might be perfectly doable.
So far so good. Onward and upward!

Shenku

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Re: Two hairs.
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2015, 09:36:14 PM »
Codewalker and crew have been explicitly avoiding modifying the CoH client files with Paragon Chat, so while it's a possibility i wouldn't bet on them doing it for the regular version. i suppose if you forked your own customized version it might be perfectly doable.

True, but this is all only hypothetical still.

Regardless of whether or not they would ever support it, I would assume that if they ever did, there would be at least some quality control testing going into it before hand on a separate server/build (Test server, anyone?). This would be to make sure it didn't break anything on the main "live" server, and anything added in would be done so by a small dedicated semi-official "artist team", and not just random people, to make sure nothing goes in that doesn't belong, or doesn't meet general quality standards in order to blend well with existing costume options.

But again, that's a big "if"...

Arcana

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Re: Two hairs.
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2015, 09:51:14 PM »
True, but this is all only hypothetical still.

Regardless of whether or not they would ever support it, I would assume that if they ever did, there would be at least some quality control testing going into it before hand on a separate server/build (Test server, anyone?). This would be to make sure it didn't break anything on the main "live" server, and anything added in would be done so by a small dedicated semi-official "artist team", and not just random people, to make sure nothing goes in that doesn't belong, or doesn't meet general quality standards in order to blend well with existing costume options.

But again, that's a big "if"...

There's no server.

Shenku

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Re: Two hairs.
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2015, 10:37:17 PM »
There's no server.

Sorry, I should probably have clarified. I meant the "Tequila server", or rather the actual physical location that the I24 client is hosted at in order for the client itself to be downloaded through Tequila and installed on a user's machine, not any actual "game server", cause I know that doesn't exist.

If the hypothetically official mods were to be put there, it would be distributed to anyone who downloads their client through there. And the "test server" would simply be a modified Tequila launcher that downloads from a different location, and a modified Paragon Chat to hooked up through an alternate XMPP address or whatever it's called. (Again, all hypothetical, probably will never happen...)

Arcana

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Re: Two hairs.
« Reply #17 on: September 30, 2015, 01:35:30 AM »
Sorry, I should probably have clarified. I meant the "Tequila server", or rather the actual physical location that the I24 client is hosted at in order for the client itself to be downloaded through Tequila and installed on a user's machine, not any actual "game server", cause I know that doesn't exist.

If the hypothetically official mods were to be put there, it would be distributed to anyone who downloads their client through there. And the "test server" would simply be a modified Tequila launcher that downloads from a different location, and a modified Paragon Chat to hooked up through an alternate XMPP address or whatever it's called. (Again, all hypothetical, probably will never happen...)

I mention there's no "server" in that sense to point out there's no such thing as "test" and "live" in the way you're describing.  I would assume if Codewalker wanted to make these kinds of modification (I don't think he does) he'd make them protocol-backward compatible, which means they'd almost certainly co-exist with older pre-modified Paragon Chat servers.  There's no specific reason I can think of for making a "test server" when there's no server-side components to test.

Shenku

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Re: Two hairs.
« Reply #18 on: September 30, 2015, 03:03:34 AM »
I mention there's no "server" in that sense to point out there's no such thing as "test" and "live" in the way you're describing.  I would assume if Codewalker wanted to make these kinds of modification (I don't think he does) he'd make them protocol-backward compatible, which means they'd almost certainly co-exist with older pre-modified Paragon Chat servers.  There's no specific reason I can think of for making a "test server" when there's no server-side components to test.

My line of thought was to be able to have an alternate install of the files for trying out such new modifications, without risking the off chance of said mods blowing something up with the main install if something for some reason causes an issue. Not that it necessarily would, but I figured it's better to play it safe than to risk breaking things... That way, lazy people who forget to make a backup of their install don't get frustrated with having to redownload everything again to fix it if something in fact does break (Again, unlikely, but you never know...).

But yeah, at the moment, I'm agreeing with you in that I don't think Codewalker really wants to fiddle around with this kind of stuff. It's too much hassle to begin with, and would probably be easier to just focus such efforts on creating that sort of content for a successor project anyways since I'd hazard a guess that anyone who would be willing to do such modding, is probably already involved with an existing Plan Z project already...