Author Topic: The Force Awakens **SPOILERS ALLOWED**  (Read 24658 times)

Aggelakis

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The Force Awakens **SPOILERS ALLOWED**
« on: December 17, 2015, 06:11:17 AM »
Because sometimes you gotta talk about who said what to whom, who slapped what where, and that other thing over there that happened.

(No spoiler tags needed, thread title is spoiler tag.)
Bob Dole!! Bob Dole. Bob Dole! Bob Dole. Bob Dole. Bob Dole... Bob Dole... Bob... Dole...... Bob...


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Golden Girl

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Re: The Force Awakens **SPOILERS ALLOWED**
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2015, 06:41:24 AM »
The confirmations/rebuttals of the main rumors pre-release:


Kylo Ren is Leia and Han's son - his real name is Ben.

Kylo kills Han.

Rey is Force sensitive - Finn isn't.

There isn't anything made of Finn's origins, but Rey's origins are referenced and intentionality left mysterious.

Luke is only seen in the last shot of the movie.

In the lightsaber duel at the end, Kylo beats Finn, but Rey then beats Kylo.
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hurple

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Re: The Force Awakens **SPOILERS ALLOWED**
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2015, 04:01:07 PM »
Ben Solo?

Bwah-ha-ha-ha!


hurple

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Re: The Force Awakens **SPOILERS ALLOWED**
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2015, 08:16:46 PM »
I especially liked at the very end when the giant saucer-shaped ship landed and a group of funny-looking aliens came out with Indiana Jones.

 ???

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Re: The Force Awakens **SPOILERS ALLOWED**
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2015, 05:35:53 AM »
Kylo Ren is Leia and Han's son - his real name is Ben.

Kylo kills Han.

In the lightsaber duel at the end, Kylo beats Finn, but Rey then beats Kylo.

Responses in order:

Ok, that's what Han said his name was. That's what my dad said, but I didn't hear it clearly in the theeater.

I sort of expected the death, after seeing a promo pic or something of Rey and Chewie in the cockpit of the Falcon without Han, but it didn't make the tension leading up to it any less dramatic.

So by the transitive property, Rey beats Finn?
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Golden Girl

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Re: The Force Awakens **SPOILERS ALLOWED**
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2015, 07:10:59 AM »

Rey beats Finn?

She almost did when he wouldn't let go of her hand :P
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Todogut

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Re: The Force Awakens **SPOILERS ALLOWED**
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2015, 09:43:53 AM »
I just saw the movie at an 11:45 p.m. screening on Thursday night. The audience seemed to enjoy it. But, I did not like it.

When I got home, I visited RottenTomatoes.com and was surprised to see the movie has more than 90 percent favorable reviews from both critics and audiences. I expected critics to share my view.

- I liked Daisy Ridley. She was very appealing.
- Harrison Ford was cool.
- The little round robot was neat... more mobile and expressive than R2D2.
- The visual effects were awesome.

But, the story... I can't believe how bad it was. Retread... short thrift... pandering... reductive. I could further articulate my reaction, but it would take more time, effort, and thought than the story deserves.

The only lure for a sequel is to see more of Luke Skywalker... and maybe hear him speak. Otherwise, this movie convinced me, I don't want to buy a ticket for a sequel.

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Re: The Force Awakens **SPOILERS ALLOWED**
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2015, 09:04:07 PM »
Unfortunately, one of the fumbles in the story was the quite important one of bridging the 30 year gap - and I don't mean that it needed some prequel style detailed politics - just that it came across a bit too much like "It's Rebels vs Empire round 2 - now let's get to the action!"
It's especially strange when there we a couple of great openings for a bit more detail, especially the first meeting between Rey, Finn and Han - you've got a brainwashed Stormtrooper and a scavenger from an isolated world meeting one of the key players in the victory of the rebellion - after he confirms that the Jedi and the Force are real, the stage is perfectly set to have Rey or Finn ask him how things didn't work out after the fall of the Empire - not only would it help fill in the gaps for the audience, it'd also help develop Han's disillusionment and his return to his old smuggling ways.
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Re: The Force Awakens **SPOILERS ALLOWED**
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2015, 10:06:39 PM »
We don't know who Rey's parents are but we could guess ...

Hits a lot of the same beats as A New Hope but with gender and side swiping.

JJ inflated the size of the Enterprise in his Star Trek and he did the same with the Death Star clone.

Daisy was excellent.

The only background on Fin was we was spirited away as a baby/young child and raised clone like.
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doc7924

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Re: The Force Awakens **SPOILERS ALLOWED**
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2015, 03:26:28 AM »
There's a new Star Wars film? How come I never saw it advertised anywhere?

 :o

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Re: The Force Awakens **SPOILERS ALLOWED**
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2015, 06:07:24 AM »
The "Resistance" needs to honor the true hero of the day - Diet Boba Fett.  Clearly they couldn't lower the shield without her and did she choose to stall, delay or - god forbid - die to achieve ultimate victory for her side? Nope.  Let me get this here shield  for you.

Since it wasn't Kylo that turned on Luke's new Jedi order and wiped them out it was probably 'Snoke'.  My friend was hoping that it would be someone from the old trilogy but that doesn't make sense to me.

I like that the internet mocked light saber quillons did indeed play a role in the fight with Finn.

All in all I liked the movie.  The vehicles looked great, I liked every new hero character introduced, and enjoyed the story for what it was (A Star Wars story). 

Who was the old man at the start talking to Poe supposed to be?  I thought it might be Wedge Antilles or General Madine.

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Re: The Force Awakens **SPOILERS ALLOWED**
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2015, 04:13:15 PM »
The "Resistance" needs to honor the true hero of the day - Diet Boba Fett.  Clearly they couldn't lower the shield without her and did she choose to stall, delay or - god forbid - die to achieve ultimate victory for her side? Nope.  Let me get this here shield  for you.

Since it wasn't Kylo that turned on Luke's new Jedi order and wiped them out it was probably 'Snoke'.  My friend was hoping that it would be someone from the old trilogy but that doesn't make sense to me.

I like that the internet mocked light saber quillons did indeed play a role in the fight with Finn.

All in all I liked the movie.  The vehicles looked great, I liked every new hero character introduced, and enjoyed the story for what it was (A Star Wars story). 

Who was the old man at the start talking to Poe supposed to be?  I thought it might be Wedge Antilles or General Madine.

Credits identify him as Lor San Tekka who I've never heard of before.
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eabrace

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Re: The Force Awakens **SPOILERS ALLOWED**
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2015, 05:52:18 PM »
Credits identify him as Lor San Tekka who I've never heard of before.
Had to look that up last night, myself.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lor_San_Tekka
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Re: The Force Awakens **SPOILERS ALLOWED**
« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2015, 10:47:04 PM »
Regarding the story, I have to say that I thought it was fine. No better or worse than the original trilogy. Watching it this week, I discovered that A New Hope is way slower to develop than I remember. I don't think the plot of this film is as bad as some people here seem to think.

JJ Abrams clearly doesn't get how faster than light travel or how seeing things in planet atmospheres work, in any franchise. I mean, sure, hyperspace and warp drive are plot devices, but there are established rules about how they work. Also, it's one thing to have Spock see Vulcan's destruction without a telescope for dramatic effect, but when you've got a whole Resistance's worth of people seeing something halfway across a galaxy from their own planet, that goes beyond suspension of disbelief.

Since it wasn't Kylo that turned on Luke's new Jedi order and wiped them out it was probably 'Snoke'.  My friend was hoping that it would be someone from the old trilogy but that doesn't make sense to me.

I like that the internet mocked light saber quillons did indeed play a role in the fight with Finn.

But... it was Kylo Ren that turned on the new order. That was pretty clear to me. He was seduced by Snoke, sure, but but it was him that did the killing.

I also enjoyed the utility of the hilt being proven.

Credits identify him as Lor San Tekka who I've never heard of before.

Even with the Wookieepedia link, I still don't know or really care who Mr. Old Guy Plot Device is.
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Todogut

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Re: The Force Awakens **SPOILERS ALLOWED**
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2015, 12:34:50 AM »
Regarding the story, I have to say that I thought it was fine. No better or worse than the original trilogy.

Problem is, it's the same story.

What cowardly, corporate film-making. Presumably, the suits at Disney figured, "We're spending a lot of money buying the rights, making the movie, and marketing it! We need to get a huge return! So, we gotta give the audience what they want!" And, they played it safe--to a stultifying degree--by merely stitching together pieces from previous Star Wars films.

Really, guys? You couldn't give us a new story? It's a sad thing when the "Star Wars: Clone Wars" cartoon series gave us better, original stories.

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« Last Edit: January 03, 2016, 08:36:38 AM by Todogut »

Dev7on

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Re: The Force Awakens **SPOILERS ALLOWED**
« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2015, 03:37:58 AM »

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Re: The Force Awakens **SPOILERS ALLOWED**
« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2015, 05:25:30 PM »
I used CIT before they even joined the Titan network! But then I left for a long ol' time, and came back. Now I edit the wiki.

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hurple

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Re: The Force Awakens **SPOILERS ALLOWED**
« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2015, 08:24:37 PM »
I'm not entirely sure that's true. It served a purpose (moving Rey's force prowess along) beyond "oh look, this bad guy's dangerous so he's going to kill the token black guy." Finn is definitely not a token black guy - he's one of the new faces of the franchise. Plus, it made sense in context: Finn isn't a Jedi, he's just a guy with a lightsaber. No way he's going to win. Plus, he actually put up a fight, rather than being summarily taken out.

Speaking of Rey's force prowess, she got the hang of things pretty darn quickly. Almost too quickly, IMO.

Finn is an awesome character.  Cannot wait to see where his story goes from here.

Likewise with Rey.  That girl is definitely a Skywalker.  No two ways about it.  There's a reason we were introduced to her on a desert planet where she was left, abandoned, to be raised by an unsympathetic shop owner... think about it. 

And those that say this story was too derivative or just a re-hash of the original trilogy are really missing the major point and tons of subtleties, besides.  Yeah, they could have done a massive info-dump and told us everything that happened over the "missing" 30 years... or they could dole it out in subsequent movies and off-shoots making it a more enjoyable, potent, part of the ongoing story.   

Here's what I brought away from the film, as it was.  After the Rebels defeated the emperor in ROTJ, that left a vacuum atop the Empire's power structure.  There was a scramble among the surviving top dogs to fill said void, while the ruling power of the Empire crumbled, allowing the New Republic to seize the reigns for the galaxy.  However, the true die-hard fanatics of the Empire all retreated back to the outer-rim worlds and restructured the organization, which became the  First Order.  The New Republic sent their best and brightest out to set up the Resistance among the outer rim worlds to fight back against the First Order before they can gain enough of a foothold to re-seize the reigns of power throughout the galaxy.

So, during the missing 30 years, the Republic re-established it's rule and reconstituted the Galactic Council (hopefully, without Jar Jar holding a seat), and the remnants of the Empire retreated to lick it's wounds and reorganize into the First Order.  The analog here is Germany after WWI, and how the fanatics seized power and founded the Nazi regime.  I mean, they all but *told* you that in the movie in several places.  It's not the filmmaker's fault if you don't know your 20th century European history.  Ha Ha!

Anyway, meanwhile Luke sets about trying to re-establish the Jedi order, but fails, since that's what Mark Hammill always does.  And his star pupil becomes Darth Vader happy happy fan boy #1.  Probably also has something to do with his father Han constantly referring to him as "Princess" while growing up too... And possibly something to do with Han liking Chewbacca more than him, too.  Oh, and I bet the following conversation took place, and had a part in it too...

"Hey, Ben, now that you're 16 and can get your starship license, I need to make a confession."
"What's that dad?"
"Well, you know that ship I promised you could have when you were old enough?"
"Yeah, the Mellineum Falcon... Yeah..."
"Um... well... um... I lost it."
"Whaddya mean you lost it?"
"Aw, you know how it is, son, one too many correllian ale's, and the next thing you know you wake up on Laos Vagus IV with a shaved Wookie and a strange new face tattoo and can't remember anything... but that's another movie..."
"Awwwwwww Daaaaaaaad...."

So, the reason made what is essentially yet another Death Star?  I imagine it has to do with only having 30 years and already having the plans for that big gun just laying around in the Imperial ruins.  Besides, it always worked out so well in the past... um... hold on...

And, one last point in this oddball stream of consciousness idiocy, Han *had* to be the sacrificial mentor in this film.  The first film in both other Star Wars trilogies had a sacrificial mentor figure who took pointed the "hero" down his path, but died before he could prepare the hero for the journey.  It's classic mythical storytelling.  In this film, with who the villain was, and the story that needed told, and to show the audience the moment he fully embraced evil... Han *had* to be the sacrificial mentor, even though Harrison Ford is by FAR the biggest star in the franchise.  It was a great moment, and a powerful moment.  Now that the mentor has been sacrificed, we can move to the training, and in the next film Luke can fulfill the Yoda role for Rey, and then be killed/die before the training is complete.  Again, a necessary component for this particular hero's quest story.

And in film three, she will need to embrace the dark side, and then reject it (as Luke did in the Super Star Destroyer when confronted by the Emperor, to finish her mythical hero's quest.  But, since her training is incomplete, the dramatic tension of will she/won't she will be heightened, just as it was with Luke, for the same reason.  Then there's also the beat of her being Kylo's kin...

Both previous trilogies followed that same template, except in episodes 1, 2, and 3, the "hero" did not reject the dark side and fully embraced it to end the story.  Which is why his "trainer" survived the story, and, instead a stand-in trainer (Mace Windu) was made the sacrificial lamb to launch the final act.     

All the pieces were laid, perfectly, in this first film.  And, it makes perfect sense.  Remember in Star Wars, nothing is by chance.  Every step Rey, Finn and Poe took, every move they made was manipulations of the Force pushing them to their destiny.

There was tons more thought put into this movie than the general punters are giving Abrams credit for...




Todogut

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Re: The Force Awakens **SPOILERS ALLOWED**
« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2015, 08:47:37 PM »
And those that say this story was too derivative or just a re-hash of the original trilogy are really missing the major point and tons of subtleties, besides. 

If you liked it, good. I confess, I missed its appeal. In my view, the major point was Disney needs to make a lot of money.

However, other people have different views... for example: Alex Jones Exposes Truth Behind Star Wars
« Last Edit: December 22, 2015, 12:14:23 AM by Todogut »

Todogut

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« Last Edit: December 22, 2015, 01:12:21 AM by Todogut »