Author Topic: Ice/Dark question  (Read 6794 times)

worldweary

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Ice/Dark question
« on: January 07, 2016, 03:33:48 AM »
Looking at Ice Armor it has a heal of 40%.Dark has a heal of 30%.Electric has 25%.Fire has 25%.Why did I never see more Ice Armor/Dark Melee?Two heals + the heal from Ice adds hp.It also has two End Recovery powers.Did anyone here have one?
« Last Edit: January 07, 2016, 05:59:03 AM by worldweary »

ricodah

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Re: Ice/Dark question
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2016, 04:24:34 AM »
Ice/DM Tank sounds very survivable but then again, what tank isn't?  I wouldn't be surprised if you can softcap S/L/E/N, cap hitpoints, 50+ hp/sec regen, perma Hasten/Soul Drain.  Unfortunately the build isn't much of an AoE machine like other primaries/secondaries.  Hibernate, haha!

worldweary

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Re: Ice/Dark question
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2016, 04:34:31 AM »
Ok here is a quick build.I don't build to solo so I don't need much damage and any help a team could give would fill in most holes.Heals up fast,two End Rec can overlap so now this is one more added to the list.Any changes please let me know.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.96
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Ice Armor
Secondary Power Set: Dark Melee
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Arctic Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Frozen Armor -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(7), LkGmblr-Def(7)
Level 1: Shadow Punch -- Cloud-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Cloud-ToHitDeb(40), Cloud-Acc/ToHitDeb(40), Cloud-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(43), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(46)
Level 2: Hoarfrost -- Dct'dW-Rchg(A), Dct'dW-Heal(3), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(3), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(5), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(5)
Level 4: Chilling Embrace -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 6: Wet Ice -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 8: Permafrost -- ImpArm-ResDam(A), ImpArm-ResDam/Rchg(9)
Level 10: Shadow Maul -- Cloud-ToHitDeb(A), Cloud-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(11), Cloud-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(39), Cloud-Acc/ToHitDeb(40), DarkWD-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(46), DarkWD-ToHitdeb/Rchg/EndRdx(50)
Level 12: Taunt -- Zinger-Acc/Rchg(A), Zinger-Taunt(13), Zinger-Taunt/Rchg(13), Zinger-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(15), Zinger-Taunt/Rng(15), Zinger-Dam%(21)
Level 14: Kick -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 16: Siphon Life -- Dct'dW-Rchg(A), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(17), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(17), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(19), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(21)
Level 18: Glacial Armor -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(19), LkGmblr-Def(34)
Level 20: Tough -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), RctvArm-ResDam(23), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(25), RctvArm-EndRdx(33), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(34)
Level 22: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(23), LkGmblr-Def(36)
Level 24: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(25), LkGmblr-Def(34)
Level 26: Energy Absorption -- P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(27), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(27), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg(33), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(33)
Level 28: Tactics -- AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx(A), AdjTgt-ToHit(29), AdjTgt-ToHit/Rchg(29), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(31), AdjTgt-EndRdx/Rchg(31), GSFC-Build%(31)
Level 30: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 32: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(36), RechRdx-I(36)
Level 35: Dark Consumption -- P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(37), Erad-Acc/Rchg(37), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(37), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39)
Level 38: Midnight Grasp -- DarkWD-ToHitdeb/Rchg/EndRdx(A), DarkWD-ToHitDeb/Rchg(43), DarkWD-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(43), DarkWD-ToHitDeb(45), P'ngS'Fest-Dmg/EndRdx(46), P'ngS'Fest-Acc/Dmg(50)
Level 41: Block of Ice -- BasGaze-Acc/Hold(A), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(42), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(42), BasGaze-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(42)
Level 44: Ice Blast -- Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), Dev'n-Dmg/EndRdx(45)
Level 47: Ice Storm -- Posi-Dmg/Rchg(A), Det'tn-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(48), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(48), RechRdx-I(48), P'ngTtl-EndRdx/Rchg/Slow(50)
Level 49: Super Speed -- Zephyr-ResKB(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Acc-I(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Clrty-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Mrcl-Rcvry+(11)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(9)
------------




ricodah

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Re: Ice/Dark question
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2016, 06:45:35 AM »
This is probably similar to a build I would roll with.  Would work a little harder to get Soul Drain perma, it's a couple seconds off.  Would continuously keep Hoarfrost on auto, pick up Rebirth Radial Destiny and Melee Core Hybrid for a constant 95 hp/sec regen rate.  Even without Rebirth/Melee Core, it regens at 61 hp/sec.

Smite-Siphon Life-Midnight Grasp-Gloom attack chain which would give a 375 self-heal every 7 seconds.

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worldweary

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Re: Ice/Dark question
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2016, 09:13:31 PM »
Quick question.Why take Soul Drain with it's 2% tohit and 8% damage buff when you can take Assault+Tactics and get much more?Also I could not get any real damage with Icicles.Did you
take it to help keep aggro?

brothermutant

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Re: Ice/Dark question
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2016, 11:00:05 PM »
Quick question.Why take Soul Drain with it's 2% tohit and 8% damage buff when you can take Assault+Tactics and get much more?Also I could not get any real damage with Icicles.Did you
take it to help keep aggro?
Soul Drain's to hit and dmg buff scales with the number around you that you hit with the power. On Mids, when you click the power, you can set the scale to see what 1 through X would do. And I assume the icicles were for damage procs (didn't look at the build). Surprising no one mentions the synergy with DM getting to Hit debuffs with an already impressive defensive armor set (Ice).

HEATSTROKE

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Re: Ice/Dark question
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2016, 02:05:28 AM »
Ice Armor is so underrated its not even funny.. Simply put it is one of the most survivable armor sets in the game

You can easily softcap to S/L/N/E.
You can easily Perma Hoarfrost.
You can buff Defense with Energy Absorption and get some end back in the process
You can debuff incoming damage and a foes recharge with Chilling Embrace, which further reduces the damage you take.

And if everything goes against you.. Hibernate.. get all your health back and come out swinging..

Personally I have never like /Dark as a set.. tried it several times.. didnt like it.. Shadow Maul ticks me off when it misses.. You just  stand there flailing like an idiot..

Ice already has the ability to massively heal itself.. should need the heals from Dark..

I had an Ice/Stone..

HEATSTROKE

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Re: Ice/Dark question
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2016, 02:11:25 AM »
BTW Dark Armor has one of the biggest heals in the game..

Fully Slotted Ice Armor will heal 80%

Fully Slotted Dark Regeneration will heal 59% hitting ONE person.. 118% for 2. 177% for three and so on.. since most mobs tend to have about 8 or so..hitting 8 foes would be 473% in one shot..

I dont think that I have ever hit less than three running into a mob...

I believe its the biggest heal in the game for Tanks



ricodah

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Re: Ice/Dark question
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2016, 03:05:56 AM »
Exactly what brothermutant said.  Most get Build Up which provides higher +tohit/dam than Soul Drain but SD lasts for 30 seconds.  You could pick SD easily as taking both Dark Consumption and Energy Absorption is overkill.  Icicles is more or less a mule for 5% recharge.  Normally I would slot it with (3) Eradication (Including proc), acc/dam HamiO and Scirocco's/Obliteration procs or possibly split between Cleaving Blow/Eradication for a good E/N def bonus.

worldweary

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Re: Ice/Dark question
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2016, 04:32:44 AM »
I did't know dark armor had that kind of heal.I just saw the 40% vs 30% and thought slotted Ice had a better heal.Reading what you said about dark that means it's heal would be fine for mobs but not single targets.So against a AV Ice would have the better heal?Looking at Dark Armor in Mid's it does have better Resistance.
I'll just have to make each.I see your point about having two End Drain powers and will work Soul Drain back in.This would be so much better if I could just load up the game and see what works in game vs in mid's :gonk: :gonk: :gonk:
« Last Edit: January 08, 2016, 07:04:14 PM by worldweary »

ricodah

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Re: Ice/Dark question
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2016, 05:49:28 AM »
This would be so much better if I could just load up the game and see what works in game vs in mid's :gonk: :gonk: :gonk:

Ikr!?

Hoarfrost isn't an ideal heal since it has a down time of almost 110ish seconds even with a decent amount of recharge.  With a crappy amount of recharge, Dark Regeneration can be up in 13ish seconds and with good slotting, you can get from low to full hitpoints with 2 targets.  DA is an endurance nightmare, plan your build from level 5 to incarnates so that you're not crashing every other mob.

HEATSTROKE

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Re: Ice/Dark question
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2016, 06:51:25 AM »
Ikr!?

Hoarfrost isn't an ideal heal since it has a down time of almost 110ish seconds even with a decent amount of recharge.  With a crappy amount of recharge, Dark Regeneration can be up in 13ish seconds and with good slotting, you can get from low to full hitpoints with 2 targets.  DA is an endurance nightmare, plan your build from level 5 to incarnates so that you're not crashing every other mob.

Hoarfrost can be perma'd easily..
This gives it the effect of both raising your total amount of HP as well as healing. And the way regen works the more HP the better.

True you can recover HP better with Dark Regen.. but the Ice Tank will have more HP..

Ive played a Ice/Stone and a Dark/Stone.. both good.. but the Ice is better defensive wise..

Offensively however the Dark/Stone can mitigate a LOT of damage easily..

Vee

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Re: Ice/Dark question
« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2016, 07:42:46 AM »
My ice tank got stopped in the 30s by the game's close. Seemed sweet to that level but there had to be some reason people rarely played them at high levels. My guess would be 51.9 ddr combined with barely any resistances. HP/regen/slow/hibernate would cover some of that but I could easily imagine getting wrecked by some high level stuff, even not factoring incarnate content in. Siphon life every few seconds would definitely help.

Auroxis

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Re: Ice/Dark question
« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2016, 10:32:33 AM »
DDR wasn't that bad due to being able to spam Energy Absorption, plus Hibernate worked perfectly to shrug off def debuffs.

The biggest issues were end drains, base resists, and the psi hole.

brothermutant

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Re: Ice/Dark question
« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2016, 02:25:45 PM »
Here is what I would start with, not my final build, just something I put together last night. I didn't take Hibernate as it seemed that if the "tank" needed to turtle up, the team was dying anyway. I don't remember rolling one of these but it could be fun. I did a Ice/Martial Arts one once, just to kill (err...arrest) a fellow Ice tank PvPer I went up against. Never got it finished though as the game ended before I hit 50.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.96
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Tank IceDMSoul: Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Ice Armor
Secondary Power Set: Dark Melee
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Hoarfrost -- Numna-Heal/Rchg(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(3), Numna-EndRdx/Rchg(3), Aegis-ResDam(5), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg(5), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(7)
Level 1: Shadow Punch -- SMotTanker-Acc/Dmg(A), SMotTanker-Dmg/Rchg(7), SMotTanker-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(9), SMotTanker-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(9), SMotTanker-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11), SMotTanker-Rchg/Res%(11)
Level 2: Smite -- Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), Mako-Dam%(13), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(15), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(15), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(17)
Level 4: Chilling Embrace -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 6: Wet Ice -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(21)
Level 8: Frozen Armor -- HO:Cyto(A), HO:Cyto(23), HO:Cyto(23)
Level 10: Taunt -- Acc-I(A)
Level 12: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), SW-ResDam/Re TP(25)
Level 14: Icicles -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(45)
Level 16: Siphon Life -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(25), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(27), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(27), Theft-Acc/Heal(29), Theft-Acc/EndRdx/Heal(29)
Level 18: Glacial Armor -- HO:Cyto(A), HO:Cyto(31), HO:Cyto(31)
Level 20: Kick -- Acc-I(A)
Level 22: Tough -- Aegis-ResDam(A), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(31), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(33)
Level 24: Weave -- HO:Cyto(A), HO:Cyto(33), HO:Cyto(33), LkGmblr-Rchg+(50)
Level 26: Energy Absorption -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg(34), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(34)
Level 28: Soul Drain -- Oblit-Acc/Rchg(A), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(34), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46), Oblit-Dmg(46), Armgdn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(46)
Level 30: Super Speed -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(36)
Level 32: Permafrost -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), GA-3defTpProc(36)
Level 35: Dark Consumption -- Efficacy-EndMod(A), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg(37), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(37), Efficacy-Acc/Rchg(37), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc(40), Efficacy-EndMod/EndRdx(43)
Level 38: Midnight Grasp -- Hectmb-Dmg(A), Hectmb-Dmg/Rchg(39), Hectmb-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Hectmb-Acc/Rchg(39), Hectmb-Dmg/EndRdx(40), Hectmb-Dam%(40)
Level 41: Gloom -- Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(42), Dev'n-Hold%(42), Apoc-Dam%(42), Apoc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43), Apoc-Dmg/Rchg(43)
Level 44: Darkest Night -- DampS-ToHitDeb/Rchg/EndRdx(A), DampS-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(45), DampS-Rchg/EndRdx(45)
Level 47: Dark Obliteration -- OvForce-Acc/Dmg(A), OvForce-End/Rech(48), OvForce-Acc/Dmg/End(48), OvForce-Acc/Dmg/End/Rech(48), OvForce-Dam/KB(50)
Level 49: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(50)
Level 1: Brawl -- Acc-I(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Clrty-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(17), Numna-Heal(19)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(19), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(21)
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 0: Portal Jockey
Level 0: Task Force Commander
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
------------




brothermutant

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Re: Ice/Dark question
« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2016, 02:30:49 PM »
Just wanted to add, I think Ice got a bad rep but yeah, the damage resistance was way low so the best you could hope for was teammate buffs for resistances. Plus making sure you had capped HP for a tank was pretty sweet (hoarfrost perma). Couple that with Chilling Embrace's and Darkest Night's -damage components, and if the enemies are in range, they don't hit very hard at all when they do. Of course, I preferred Darkest Night on my highly resistant tanks/brutes for its -ToHit portion (and more damage protection with the same -dmg debuff was pretty ungodly). Soul Mastery was a really nice APP for tanks and brutes imho.