Author Topic: Question about current IP Rights holder  (Read 22649 times)

Baaleos

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Question about current IP Rights holder
« on: January 12, 2016, 03:43:48 PM »
Hypothetically - if someone wanted to investigate a career in writing and wanted to use elements from the NCSoft City of Heroes game.
They would undoubtedly require a signed release from the IP Rights holder allowing the limited use of terms and phrases from their IP.
Eg: wanting to use the Kheldian race out of context from the City of Heroes universe.

There are ways of doing it without this document
eg: Fair Use etc- proving that it is for non-profit etc

But failing that a release would likely be required.

Does anyone know who the current IP Rights holder is?
I mean, has the brand been sold to the new guys, or is it still with NCSoft.
Also - if NCSoft were to grant a release before transferring ownership - would the new guys have to respect the release?

Aggelakis

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Re: Question about current IP Rights holder
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2016, 01:42:19 PM »
Does anyone know who the current IP Rights holder is?
NCsoft.
Quote
Also - if NCSoft were to grant a release before transferring ownership - would the new guys have to respect the release?
Yes.
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Victoria Victrix

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Re: Question about current IP Rights holder
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2016, 06:07:25 AM »
If someone wanted to investigate a career in writing, my first advice would have nothing to do with CoH.  It would be "get a day job that doesn't make you want to open a vein rather than go to work."

Of all of the members of the Science Fiction Writers of America, only about 5% of them make a living from writing.

Of that 5%, most of them make a living writing things in addition to writing sf prose.  The some of them are writing in other genres, like romance, thrillers, and work-for-hire.  Some are journalists.  Some of them are writing ad copy, or working for trade magazines (like the magazines you find in the back seat pockets of airplanes).

There are only a handful of writers who are making a full time living writing science fiction and fantasy.

The odds are only slightly better than winning the lottery, but the lottery only costs you $2, and betting everything on being able to make your living writing has very high odds of you living under a bridge.
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blacksly

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Re: Question about current IP Rights holder
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2016, 03:43:42 PM »
betting everything on being able to make your living writing has very high odds of you living under a bridge.

However, it is most certainly true that if I were looking for a demographic most likely to be fine living under a bridge, internet message board posters is probably the one I would go for ;)

MM3squints

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Re: Question about current IP Rights holder
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2016, 02:41:47 AM »
If someone wanted to investigate a career in writing, my first advice would have nothing to do with CoH.  It would be "get a day job that doesn't make you want to open a vein rather than go to work."

Of all of the members of the Science Fiction Writers of America, only about 5% of them make a living from writing.

Of that 5%, most of them make a living writing things in addition to writing sf prose.  The some of them are writing in other genres, like romance, thrillers, and work-for-hire.  Some are journalists.  Some of them are writing ad copy, or working for trade magazines (like the magazines you find in the back seat pockets of airplanes).

There are only a handful of writers who are making a full time living writing science fiction and fantasy.

The odds are only slightly better than winning the lottery, but the lottery only costs you $2, and betting everything on being able to make your living writing has very high odds of you living under a bridge.

As a writer, how accurate is this joke?


Victoria Victrix

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Re: Question about current IP Rights holder
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2016, 09:31:50 AM »
The joke is accurate mostly for those who write work for hire and to specification.  When you do that, you take what jobs come your way, whether or not you know anything about or even like the subject.  IMHO, that is why the actual City of Heroes work-for-hire books are so soulless.  I know the first author, he didn't know anything about CoH and he didn't give a shit about the subject; the next month, he was probably writing a NASCAR romance (and yes, for a while, that was a thing).  I expect the other two were the same.

For those of us who do not make our living doing work for hire, you absolutely must love what you do, because if you don't it shows.  If you don't love what you write, and think about it even when you aren't writing, it shows.  I did exactly one book out of the hundred or so that have been published for the money.  It showed.  It has sold the worst of all of them.
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Re: Question about current IP Rights holder
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2016, 02:42:16 PM »
The joke is accurate mostly for those who write work for hire and to specification.  When you do that, you take what jobs come your way, whether or not you know anything about or even like the subject.  IMHO, that is why the actual City of Heroes work-for-hire books are so soulless.  I know the first author, he didn't know anything about CoH and he didn't give a pancake about the subject; the next month, he was probably writing a NASCAR romance (and yes, for a while, that was a thing).  I expect the other two were the same.

For those of us who do not make our living doing work for hire, you absolutely must love what you do, because if you don't it shows.  If you don't love what you write, and think about it even when you aren't writing, it shows.  I did exactly one book out of the hundred or so that have been published for the money.  It showed.  It has sold the worst of all of them.

Whilst I don't necessarily disagree I know that at least one of the CoH novel authors had a history of writing for superheroes, and for writing for comics in general.

Tubbius

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Re: Question about current IP Rights holder
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2016, 04:32:33 AM »
. . . the next month, he was probably writing a NASCAR romance (and yes, for a while, that was a thing).  I expect the other two were the same.

I remember seeing one of those books in Waldenbooks at the local mall some years ago!  I remember wondering what kind of whack-job demographic they were aiming for, because NASCAR and romance novels just don't seem to go together.

I'm glad I wasn't hallucinating on seeing that book's cover.

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Re: Question about current IP Rights holder
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2016, 01:13:31 PM »
Hypothetically - if someone wanted to investigate a career in writing and wanted to use elements from the NCSoft City of Heroes game.
They would undoubtedly require a signed release from the IP Rights holder allowing the limited use of terms and phrases from their IP.
Eg: wanting to use the Kheldian race out of context from the City of Heroes universe.

There are ways of doing it without this document
eg: Fair Use etc- proving that it is for non-profit etc

this is a thin line question, I was going to post a whole big post on player's rights a while back in another thread but I decided against it. but here it is now anyways.

if you made a character in city of X (which by now with all the player databases deleted they have no way to prove that you didn't) purely going by the ToS/disclaimer provided with the game, you own your character in it's entirety as long as it is not infringing on IPs held by other owners.

what that means is so long as it's an original character of your own design, you own it.

this actually entitles you to a lot. you can claim that your character's iconic looks are derived from CoX's costume designer (citing the costume pieces and color schemes) this gives you a right to utilize these costume assets for your character in whatever media form you want (even though you were not the original creator of the assets) this includes the rights to rip and use the actual 3D models of your character for whatever you decide, profit or no profit.

in effect the individual costume parts used become properties of the public domain.

to the same effect, you were encouraged to make characters with the given archetypes, kheldians being several of them, this allows you to utilize them to your heart's content. they become public domain so long as you made an original costume/story, you own the character, you own the looks, you own the story to that character and you own the right to use the type of origin the character had. for the shape shift forms, you share the public rights to them.

To a similar effect, you were encouraged to make characters which live and operate and have origin stories and interactions with the CoX universe, including zone maps, contacts, enemies, enemy groups, powers and power names, items and item names, missions and TF/SFs ETC. This allots you SOME LIMITED right to the usage of these assets in anything made about your character. the limitation being that you can't just go infringing the whole game claiming that your character interacted with all of it, you can use it 'situationally', and you should come up with a unique story to any such missions, encounters ETC. this does even allot the right to use any art asset from the game, just so long as you're not deemed to be using enough of it in one place to be considered "too close to a functional reproduction of the original".

For example Titan Icon and Paragon chat utilize ALL the art assets and some of the game assets such as the character designer, this is actually well with-in the realms of OK.

The line is crossed when you start duplicating enemy spawns as they would happen in CoX, or start using the CoX stat system to program battle calcs in an MMO game, or produce exact copies of CoX missions with no original unique personalizations by yourself, or use proprietary characters as more than a non-playable cameo appearance, or use the entirety of one or more enemy groups from CoX, or sell rights to use the character designer to output character files for another game, or reproduce the UI elements exactly as they were for your own game ETC.

We all own the right to use atlas park, it's a shared public right. but our usage of it must be unique as necessary to the story of the character we made in CoX that needs it, and it must not be an exact functional replica if it's game based, think level-based gaming "LV 1 atlas park" and think "never /all/ the spawn points, never the /whole/ map".

so there you have it, NCSoft does own all this stuff but by giving you ownership of your character and the ownership of your character in the context of CoX you may use thier assets to some limited ability for profit or not for profit.

you would not need any other agreement than the original disclaimer provided by NCSoft which logically should have the lines pertaining to what you used included in whatever it is you made with it. you must also add in your own disclaimer that [list of things][/list] are owned by NCSoft, I am using them only as allowed under 1; NCSoft's own disclaimer and 2; rights to the assets as found under the laws regarding the public domain. and you must never charge directly or indirectly for these assets.

You can charge for a game based on your character in paragon or the rogue isles, praetoria, pocket D etc., but you can't charge to unlock the rogue isles or any of those places! not even allow it to be unlocked with "game coins" for which someone paid real money (indirect), not even if using game coins as optional along side in-game currency, Not even if using game coins to play a lottery where you could win the right to unlock these assets, not even giving the assets away for free as a listed bonus with a purchase!
« Last Edit: January 18, 2016, 12:15:12 AM by Joshex »
There is always another way. But it might not work exactly like you may desire.

A wise old rabbit once told me "Never give-up!, Trust your instincts!" granted the advice at the time led me on a tripped-out voyage out of an asteroid belt, but hey it was more impressive than a bunch of rocks and space monkies.

Victoria Victrix

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Re: Question about current IP Rights holder
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2016, 03:02:30 AM »
Sorry Josh.  You have it very wrong again.

Yes, you have the rights to your own character, name, and to a certain extent, costume.  What you do not have the rights to, under any circumstances whatsoever, is to utilize anything that was Trademarked or Copyrighted under City of Heroes.  No Kheldians (although you can have an energy being that shapeshifts into human form easily enough, you can't have the "crab" and "squid" forms as described).  No Paragon City.  No ATs that are demonstrably mere copies of the City ATs.  No "mishing" in the sense we did it, no "teams" in the sense we had them.  Absolutely none of the City Lore.  And a crafty lawyer could probably even make a case for NCSoft owning the rights to your characters as well, at least insofar as name and looks go.  There is absolutely nothing in CoH that is in "public domain."  Nothing.  You certainly cannot use things like Kheldians who even the stupidist lawyer in the world could demonstrate existed only in CoH.

Now, Cryptic, Paragon, and NCSoft did explicitly grant us the use of these things in not-for-profit fanfiction, in fact, encouraged this.  But when it comes to--as the OP originally said --making a living from writing, using any of these assets whatsoever is going to earn you a Cease and Desist at best, and a lawsuit at worst.

Being so exceptionally careful about this is why, when we started writing the Secret World Chronicle even though we were not using anything like the CoH univers, ATs, or lore, and were very careful not to do so, we worked out an agreement in advance for cross-marketing--"You allow us to use characters we developed in the game, and we advertise your game for free." 

Arguing (from absolute ignorance, might I add) that because Titan Icon and Paragon Chat use the CoH assets means anyone can use them for profit in fiction is like claiming "God is Love, Love is Blind, therefore Stevie Wonder is God."  Titan Icon allows individuals to utilize game resources they bought and paid for on their own computers, and not in a public forum.  Paragon Chat gets much dicier because it brings those resources out into the public, but no one is making a profit on them, but NcSoft is totally within its rights to demand PC get shut down.

And once again, no one but NCSOFT owns the rights to use Paragon City, Atlas Park, Talos Island, Kheldians, Fire Tanks, Incarnate Trials etc. etc. etc. for profit.   Period.  End of discussion.

Please stop shooting your mouth off about things you clearly do not understand.  You could get someone in trouble and ruin things like Paragon Chat for the rest of us.
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Victoria Victrix

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Re: Question about current IP Rights holder
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2016, 03:06:41 AM »
I remember seeing one of those books in Waldenbooks at the local mall some years ago!  I remember wondering what kind of whack-job demographic they were aiming for, because NASCAR and romance novels just don't seem to go together.

I'm glad I wasn't hallucinating on seeing that book's cover.

You weren't.  It was part of a cross-marketing scheme between Harlequin and NASCAR.  I guess they thought that women who went to NASCAR races would automatically buy a NASCAR romance, and women who bought romances might buy a NASCAR romance and would then automatically start going to NASCAR races.

I will go down with this ship.  I won't put my hands up in surrender.  There will be no white flag above my door.  I'm in love, and always will be.  Dido

Taceus Jiwede

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Re: Question about current IP Rights holder
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2016, 03:29:56 AM »
You weren't.  It was part of a cross-marketing scheme between Harlequin and NASCAR.  I guess they thought that women who went to NASCAR races would automatically buy a NASCAR romance, and women who bought romances might buy a NASCAR romance and would then automatically start going to NASCAR races.

Did they go something like this "The mechanic gently rested his dirty hands on her cheek.  He looked her in the eyes and then leaned in close to share with her his deepest and darkest desires.  He opens his mouth and yells 'VROOOOOOOOOOOM'"



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Re: Question about current IP Rights holder
« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2016, 07:05:02 AM »
You weren't.  It was part of a cross-marketing scheme between Harlequin and NASCAR.  I guess they thought that women who went to NASCAR races would automatically buy a NASCAR romance, and women who bought romances might buy a NASCAR romance and would then automatically start going to NASCAR races.

The funny thing, this tactic reminds me of a friend who got his girlfriend into CoX  by walking her in like it was "The Sims" where you can make a costume and your toon and look like how they would in "The Sims." Slowly over time, he hooked her into the game, it was a lot cheaper than going to the movies every other week, and instead they just played together.

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Re: Question about current IP Rights holder
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2016, 08:03:29 AM »
Sorry Josh.  You have it very wrong again.

Thank you, Victoria Victrix, for helping to clear that up.

Joshex, please don't post advice regarding what is and isn't "fair use" of CoH IP.  You're only going to invite legal trouble for people who don't know any better.
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Aggelakis

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Re: Question about current IP Rights holder
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2016, 09:13:59 AM »
Joshex, please don't post advice
Honestly, you could have stopped there.

Sorry, Joshex...I have stopped reading your posts entirely, and just assume you're rambling way off course at this point. Perhaps you should think about why everyone discounts your posts without even reading them, or if they read them, are suddenly struck by a sudden case of the facepalms.
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Joshex

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Re: Question about current IP Rights holder
« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2016, 01:10:56 PM »
Honestly, you could have stopped there.

Sorry, Joshex...I have stopped reading your posts entirely, and just assume you're rambling way off course at this point. Perhaps you should think about why everyone discounts your posts without even reading them, or if they read them, are suddenly struck by a sudden case of the facepalms.

what can I say?, I don't want to lurk because I want to converse about the possibility of getting the game back, but I have nothing to really say or contribute to anything concerning getting the game back, because most everything that needed to be said has already been said. All I can do is say something that has not already been said based off of what I think.

Edit; which is the polite way of saying I'm half trolling and half speaking out of my donkey. and I'm sorry.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2016, 01:22:22 PM by Joshex »
There is always another way. But it might not work exactly like you may desire.

A wise old rabbit once told me "Never give-up!, Trust your instincts!" granted the advice at the time led me on a tripped-out voyage out of an asteroid belt, but hey it was more impressive than a bunch of rocks and space monkies.

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Re: Question about current IP Rights holder
« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2016, 05:53:16 PM »
Did they go something like this "The mechanic gently rested his dirty hands on her cheek.  He looked her in the eyes and then leaned in close to share with her his deepest and darkest desires.  He opens his mouth and yells 'VROOOOOOOOOOOM'"

"How could she tell him that she needed a full lube job, not just a three second tire change and a slap on the bumper?"

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Re: Question about current IP Rights holder
« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2016, 09:14:01 PM »

Taceus Jiwede

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Re: Question about current IP Rights holder
« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2016, 12:06:34 AM »
"How could she tell him that she needed a full lube job, not just a three second tire change and a slap on the bumper?"

This literally made me lol.

Honestly, you could have stopped there.

Sorry, Joshex...I have stopped reading your posts entirely, and just assume you're rambling way off course at this point. Perhaps you should think about why everyone discounts your posts without even reading them, or if they read them, are suddenly struck by a sudden case of the facepalms.

For the longest time I thought I was going crazy because no one would call him on his crazy posts except for you. I still read his posts though. Now I read them for entertainment value.  "What will THIS one say"

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Re: Question about current IP Rights holder
« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2016, 06:09:03 AM »
All I can do is say something that has not already been said based off of what I think.


Based off what you think. you could get people in serious legal trouble. 

And apparently that doesn't bother you at all.
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Joshex

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Re: Question about current IP Rights holder
« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2016, 11:05:48 AM »
Based off what you think. you could get people in serious legal trouble. 

And apparently that doesn't bother you at all.

oh, it does bother me, just the fact is I don't know what I suggest is bad till it gets screened as such. I guess I could have asked first.
There is always another way. But it might not work exactly like you may desire.

A wise old rabbit once told me "Never give-up!, Trust your instincts!" granted the advice at the time led me on a tripped-out voyage out of an asteroid belt, but hey it was more impressive than a bunch of rocks and space monkies.

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Re: Question about current IP Rights holder
« Reply #21 on: January 20, 2016, 01:35:01 PM »
For the longest time I thought I was going crazy because no one would call him on his crazy posts except for you. I still read his posts though. Now I read them for entertainment value.  "What will THIS one say"

Replying with timecube pics doesn't count? ;D

Baaleos

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Re: Question about current IP Rights holder
« Reply #22 on: January 20, 2016, 02:07:19 PM »
To throw context on the original question.

The idea was whether or not using the terms Kheldian and Nictus, in a cross-over fan fiction would be acceptable.
From what I can tell - we are free to use these terms without restriction - as long as the work remains Non-Profit (as it would be considered Fair Use)

If however you wished to use those terms in a monetized piece of literature or art, then you would need a signed release allowing the use of those terms.

Some terms however, such as Umbral, or Luminescent are not owned by NCSoft, as they are literal words with literal meanings that extend outside of the CoH universe.
Umbra being Latin for Darkness etc, adding the L at the end turns it into an adjective.. so they cannot own that
Its like me saying I own 'Red' because I used it in a character name once upon a time.

If one wanted to get around their IP ownership/censorship, they may be able to create a Species or Race similar to the Nictus/Kheldians, but just use different names.

The Kictus and the Nheldians - lol
Nicdians, Kheldonians?

After changing the actual name of the protected material, you would then have to make sure that the race/material is sufficiently different from the protected material, that the only similarities could actually be explained as a reasonable coincidence.

Eg:
My Nicdian's have glowing purple eyes, just like Nictus do....
Because purple is my favorite colour, and it represents darkness.

Or if I felt that purple was going to be a hard coincidence to sell, I could just go with Green for Nictus - tbh : Green kinda makes me think of Death and Darkness more than Purple does.

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Re: Question about current IP Rights holder
« Reply #23 on: January 20, 2016, 04:07:05 PM »
the fact is I don't know what I suggest is bad till it gets screened as such

Probably sigworthy. Definitely facepalmworthy, though.

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Re: Question about current IP Rights holder
« Reply #24 on: January 21, 2016, 05:06:38 AM »
To throw context on the original question.

The idea was whether or not using the terms Kheldian and Nictus, in a cross-over fan fiction would be acceptable.
From what I can tell - we are free to use these terms without restriction - as long as the work remains Non-Profit (as it would be considered Fair Use)

This is true, because they explicitly gave permission and encouraged fan fiction.


If however you wished to use those terms in a monetized piece of literature or art, then you would need a signed release allowing the use of those terms.

This is also true.

Some terms however, such as Umbral, or Luminescent are not owned by NCSoft, as they are literal words with literal meanings that extend outside of the CoH universe.
Umbra being Latin for Darkness etc, adding the L at the end turns it into an adjective.. so they cannot own that
Its like me saying I own 'Red' because I used it in a character name once upon a time.

This is also true.

If one wanted to get around their IP ownership/censorship, they may be able to create a Species or Race similar to the Nictus/Kheldians, but just use different names.

The Kictus and the Nheldians - lol
Nicdians, Kheldonians?

After changing the actual name of the protected material, you would then have to make sure that the race/material is sufficiently different from the protected material, that the only similarities could actually be explained as a reasonable coincidence.

Eg:
My Nicdian's have glowing purple eyes, just like Nictus do....
Because purple is my favorite colour, and it represents darkness.

THIS IS NOT TRUE.  NCSoft could present you and your publisher with a Cease and Desist letter immediately.  Chances are, since you are a beginning writer, your publisher would immediately destroy all copies, and make you pay back the advance.  Or, if you are self-published, (likely e-published), when the Cease and Desist letter hit them, it is extremely likely that every single outlet for your work would blacklist you, making it impossible to sell your work anywhere but your own website.

Should NCSoft then decide to escalate to a court case and a lawsuit, they would file said lawsuit in the only state where they have a legal residence: California.  In order to pursue anything with that lawsuit, you would be forced to retain a Californian attorney and travel to California for all hearings, depositions, and the trial.

If your attorney didn't immediately tell you to bend over for NCSoft and take it like a man, and you were stupid enough to take it to trial, this is how the verdict would go.  NCSoft's attorney would read aloud the names and descriptions of your aliens and theirs to a jury.  The jury would then decide whether or not the descriptions and names were similar enough that the aliens were clear copies. 

If you lost, you'd be out all the money you spent defending yourself and whatever punitive costs the judge elected to slap you with.

If you won, you'd be out all the money you spent defending yourself.  Which would almost certainly exceed any money you had made or would ever make from the work by a factor of ten.

Is that something you really, really, really think you need to do?

I will go down with this ship.  I won't put my hands up in surrender.  There will be no white flag above my door.  I'm in love, and always will be.  Dido

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Re: Question about current IP Rights holder
« Reply #25 on: January 21, 2016, 05:11:47 AM »
oh, it does bother me, just the fact is I don't know what I suggest is bad till it gets screened as such. I guess I could have asked first.

Apparently it doesn't bother you enough that you even take 30 seconds to question if it's wise to spout off a half-baked opinion based on absolutely nothing than what's rattling around in your skull.  And you never, not once, ever, have asked anyone if what you think is even remotely accurate or connected in any way to reality before you spout it.

I will go down with this ship.  I won't put my hands up in surrender.  There will be no white flag above my door.  I'm in love, and always will be.  Dido

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Re: Question about current IP Rights holder
« Reply #26 on: January 21, 2016, 05:35:22 AM »
I don't really know how copyright works in this case(or really any case).  But what if you created something inspired by the Nictus and Kheldian?

I guess what I am trying to say is they may own those particular ideas.  But they don't own the idea of a shape shifting alien that's uses its host in a symbiotic way. At least not that I know of. Animporh's I think had something similar except they were parasitic.  I'm sure someone like VV or  someone with a ittle more legal knowledge then myself (Which is none) can help you with just what exactly is considered the line between inspiration and infringement.

Just an idea.  It wouldn't be the first time someone was heavily "inspired" by another persons creative work.

Aggelakis

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Re: Question about current IP Rights holder
« Reply #27 on: January 21, 2016, 06:25:39 AM »
"Inspired by," yes. "Repainted copy of," no. That's what Baaleos was trying to suggest.
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Baaleos

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Re: Question about current IP Rights holder
« Reply #28 on: January 21, 2016, 01:03:47 PM »
This is true, because they explicitly gave permission and encouraged fan fiction.

This is also true.

This is also true.

THIS IS NOT TRUE.  NCSoft could present you and your publisher with a Cease and Desist letter immediately.  Chances are, since you are a beginning writer, your publisher would immediately destroy all copies, and make you pay back the advance.  Or, if you are self-published, (likely e-published), when the Cease and Desist letter hit them, it is extremely likely that every single outlet for your work would blacklist you, making it impossible to sell your work anywhere but your own website.

Should NCSoft then decide to escalate to a court case and a lawsuit, they would file said lawsuit in the only state where they have a legal residence: California.  In order to pursue anything with that lawsuit, you would be forced to retain a Californian attorney and travel to California for all hearings, depositions, and the trial.

If your attorney didn't immediately tell you to bend over for NCSoft and take it like a man, and you were stupid enough to take it to trial, this is how the verdict would go.  NCSoft's attorney would read aloud the names and descriptions of your aliens and theirs to a jury.  The jury would then decide whether or not the descriptions and names were similar enough that the aliens were clear copies. 

If you lost, you'd be out all the money you spent defending yourself and whatever punitive costs the judge elected to slap you with.

If you won, you'd be out all the money you spent defending yourself.  Which would almost certainly exceed any money you had made or would ever make from the work by a factor of ten.

Is that something you really, really, really think you need to do?

Perhaps the examples given were too obvious or sarcastic..
But one could
'create an energy based life form in fiction, that lives off the life force of other creatures' and not be penalized by NCSoft.

The concept of a life draining creature in fiction is too generic and broad to be owned by anyone.
Its basically folk-lore vampire, meets sci-fi.

So, while using the names 'Nictus, Khicktus and so on' would be very obvious to NCSoft, and they could probably be successful in court.

If however I made an alien species called 'Ragnarians'  who were energy based life forms that also had shape shifting capabilities, who also had the unfortunate handycap of needing to feed on life energy. This is not immediately obviously linked to Nictus or Kheldians.
In fact - Energy based life forms have been in Sci-Fi for years.
Babylon 5, Star-trek, Stargate etc

If the name was sufficiently different, NCSoft would not have any monopoly on the concept of an energy based life form that drains life.
That being the case, even the glowing eyes would be out of their control to censor - since glowing eyes has been in Babylon 5 and Stargate and so many others.

Taceus Jiwede

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Re: Question about current IP Rights holder
« Reply #29 on: January 21, 2016, 11:01:17 PM »
It couldn't just be a different name though.  If you named them "Smithionan's" but it was a energy based life form.  And this life form was in a civil war of sort's over their natural unbound life span's and so one turned to dark force's. I think that would be infringement.

Victoria Victrix

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Re: Question about current IP Rights holder
« Reply #30 on: January 22, 2016, 06:16:04 AM »
It couldn't just be a different name though.  If you named them "Smithionan's" but it was a energy based life form.  And this life form was in a civil war of sort's over their natural unbound life span's and so one turned to dark force's. I think that would be infringement.

You are substantially correct.

Because this is what happens in a copyright-infringement or trademark-infringement suit if it goes to trial:

The judge presents the image/text/descriptions of both to a jury.  Twelve people who know shit about you, or (likely) about the company you allegedly infringed on.  They will likely know absolutely nothing about what SF franchises have already used that concept.  If your lawyer is smart, he will present these things.  If not...too bad, so sad for you.  If, in the opinions of 7 of those 12 people, the two are similar enough to be infringing, you lose.

If it does not go to trial, a judge will make that determination on his or her own. He or she will likely know absolutely nothing about what SF franchises have already used that concept.  If your lawyer is smart, he will present these things.  If not...too bad, so sad for you.  I should point out that with the majority of new judges being appointed being currently inclined to favor corporate interests, you would likely lose.

And in either case, you would still be out the cost of an attorney, and trips to California.

So it would be wisest to avoid this at all.  Create your parasitic/symbiotic energy lifeform with a name that looks nothing at all like NCSoft's, and has no similarity to the Kheldians and Nictus backstory.  If you are thinking of trying to write for a living and you can't manage to be at least that creative, there's no hope for you.
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Baaleos

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Re: Question about current IP Rights holder
« Reply #31 on: January 22, 2016, 03:26:41 PM »

Victoria Victrix

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Re: Question about current IP Rights holder
« Reply #32 on: January 23, 2016, 04:00:04 AM »
You would be wise to avoid conflict with Stargate SG1/MGM at all costs.  TV/Movie production companies are known to be more or less litigious to the extent of actually shutting down non-profit fan fiction in the past.  While that has not happened recently, the minute profit enters the picture, the likelihood that they would act as I described NCSoft doing is such that I would not take the chance.  So don't go calling your races Ori and Ascended.

That said, there seems to be plenty of differentiation between your descriptions and NCSoft's and MGM's.  Just be exceptionally vigilant about similarities.
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Blue Pulsar

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Re: Question about current IP Rights holder
« Reply #33 on: January 27, 2016, 04:28:29 AM »
Twilight and 50 Shades... Just saying.

For anyone who does know (and no one should... I'm embarrassed that I do), 50 Shades of Grey started out as online fanfic version of the Twilight series' characters. E.L. James' work became so popular amongst her fans on the different sites she posted it on, that she took it down, and put it on her own site. Then she rewrote it, changed the names and the setting a bit, and started selling it. EVERYONE knows it's a ripoff of Meyer's work. I've seen much of the Twilight movies, and read the first handful of chapters of 50 Shades, and could tell immediately where James got her inspiration.

Anyway, NOT GIVING ANY ADVICE HERE... but I thought that the example of these two works, one being a deformed, mutated, and badly written clone of the other, merited some mention here.
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Baaleos

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Re: Question about current IP Rights holder
« Reply #34 on: January 27, 2016, 04:04:05 PM »
Thanks Pulsar,
I guess its just a risk that we take when you begin writing. Its inevitable to fall in love with some of the characters you create.
I created a fan-fic character who was Nictus, but kinda wanted to port him to a Non Marvel / Non-NCSoft story for potential use in publications.

So I basically had to uproot him and change his race and pieces of his history. (already a bitter-sweet experience, because im finding that it is affecting his personality)
That being said - I have started writing a manuscript for an eBook. (Its in Scrivener for the Mac - a very nice writing tool for Mac OSX)

Lets you define character sketches, races, planets/scene settings as research.

I've invented a somewhat unique back-story that links vaguely to NCSoft material, but is definitely unique enough that they cannot claim any sort of ownership.
'Inspired by' is what I went for, opposed to 'Derived from'

In my story,
2 Energy based races existed :
One was peaceful and luminescent : because they're species gave off extreme quantities of energy.

The other gave off energy that changed matter to anti-matter - so they are I guess you could say 'dark'.
this species also fed on life energy, I would picture them as animalistic in apperance: Imagine Venom from Spiderman, sharp teeth and tar like appearance, capable of shape shifting.

The peaceful race coexisted with the hostile race, save for a few skirmishes around borders of territory. The numbers of both race kept a balance.
However other space faring races harvested the first race for fuel and energy : which disrupted the balance of power in their sector.

This then meant that the second race out numbered the first, which then led to the extinction of the first race.
The space faring race, then turned their attention to the dark race, who with the right catalyst, could generate similar quantities of energy/fuel as the first race.

The space faring race would then employ hunters (bounty hunters) to hunt for members of either race - for their commodity value. (fuel/energy potential)
My story involves a human who becomes infested by a member of the latter species.

Imagine a Venom redemption story.  (I say Venom here, because I envision the creature in its unbound form, being like a Tar like creature with Animal like qualities.)
At first the human is somewhat feral after being infested by the creature in the Viking/Norse Era, but over hundreds of years and after taming the 'beast' he comes to be somewhat reasonably good at fitting into society.

Eventually the focal point of the story will involve extraterrestrial hunters finding him on Earth in Modern Day New York.
The story will focus much on his personality as his perception of humans changes from food to 'more than food'.

I would love for this Ebook to have illustrations and artwork, but at the moment I don't have the time/energy to devote to that as well.