Question about current IP Rights holder

[Joshex]

Based off what you think. you could get people in serious legal trouble. 

And apparently that doesn't bother you at all.

oh, it does bother me, just the fact is I don't know what I suggest is bad till it gets screened as such. I guess I could have asked first.

[Codewalker]

For the longest time I thought I was going crazy because no one would call him on his crazy posts except for you. I still read his posts though. Now I read them for entertainment value.  "What will THIS one say"

Replying with timecube pics doesn't count?

[Baaleos]

To throw context on the original question.

The idea was whether or not using the terms Kheldian and Nictus, in a cross-over fan fiction would be acceptable.
From what I can tell - we are free to use these terms without restriction - as long as the work remains Non-Profit (as it would be considered Fair Use)

If however you wished to use those terms in a monetized piece of literature or art, then you would need a signed release allowing the use of those terms.

Some terms however, such as Umbral, or Luminescent are not owned by NCSoft, as they are literal words with literal meanings that extend outside of the CoH universe.
Umbra being Latin for Darkness etc, adding the L at the end turns it into an adjective.. so they cannot own that
Its like me saying I own 'Red' because I used it in a character name once upon a time.

If one wanted to get around their IP ownership/censorship, they may be able to create a Species or Race similar to the Nictus/Kheldians, but just use different names.

The Kictus and the Nheldians - lol
Nicdians, Kheldonians?

After changing the actual name of the protected material, you would then have to make sure that the race/material is sufficiently different from the protected material, that the only similarities could actually be explained as a reasonable coincidence.

Eg:
My Nicdian's have glowing purple eyes, just like Nictus do....
Because purple is my favorite colour, and it represents darkness.

Or if I felt that purple was going to be a hard coincidence to sell, I could just go with Green for Nictus - tbh : Green kinda makes me think of Death and Darkness more than Purple does.

[blacksly]

the fact is I don't know what I suggest is bad till it gets screened as such

Probably sigworthy. Definitely facepalmworthy, though.

[Victoria Victrix]

To throw context on the original question.

The idea was whether or not using the terms Kheldian and Nictus, in a cross-over fan fiction would be acceptable.
From what I can tell - we are free to use these terms without restriction - as long as the work remains Non-Profit (as it would be considered Fair Use)

This is true, because they explicitly gave permission and encouraged fan fiction.

If however you wished to use those terms in a monetized piece of literature or art, then you would need a signed release allowing the use of those terms.

This is also true.

Some terms however, such as Umbral, or Luminescent are not owned by NCSoft, as they are literal words with literal meanings that extend outside of the CoH universe.
Umbra being Latin for Darkness etc, adding the L at the end turns it into an adjective.. so they cannot own that
Its like me saying I own 'Red' because I used it in a character name once upon a time.

This is also true.

If one wanted to get around their IP ownership/censorship, they may be able to create a Species or Race similar to the Nictus/Kheldians, but just use different names.

The Kictus and the Nheldians - lol
Nicdians, Kheldonians?

After changing the actual name of the protected material, you would then have to make sure that the race/material is sufficiently different from the protected material, that the only similarities could actually be explained as a reasonable coincidence.

Eg:
My Nicdian's have glowing purple eyes, just like Nictus do....
Because purple is my favorite colour, and it represents darkness.

THIS IS NOT TRUE.  NCSoft could present you and your publisher with a Cease and Desist letter immediately.  Chances are, since you are a beginning writer, your publisher would immediately destroy all copies, and make you pay back the advance.  Or, if you are self-published, (likely e-published), when the Cease and Desist letter hit them, it is extremely likely that every single outlet for your work would blacklist you, making it impossible to sell your work anywhere but your own website.

Should NCSoft then decide to escalate to a court case and a lawsuit, they would file said lawsuit in the only state where they have a legal residence: California.  In order to pursue anything with that lawsuit, you would be forced to retain a Californian attorney and travel to California for all hearings, depositions, and the trial.

If your attorney didn't immediately tell you to bend over for NCSoft and take it like a man, and you were stupid enough to take it to trial, this is how the verdict would go.  NCSoft's attorney would read aloud the names and descriptions of your aliens and theirs to a jury.  The jury would then decide whether or not the descriptions and names were similar enough that the aliens were clear copies. 

If you lost, you'd be out all the money you spent defending yourself and whatever punitive costs the judge elected to slap you with.

If you won, you'd be out all the money you spent defending yourself.  Which would almost certainly exceed any money you had made or would ever make from the work by a factor of ten.

Is that something you really, really, really think you need to do?

[Victoria Victrix]

oh, it does bother me, just the fact is I don't know what I suggest is bad till it gets screened as such. I guess I could have asked first.

Apparently it doesn't bother you enough that you even take 30 seconds to question if it's wise to spout off a half-baked opinion based on absolutely nothing than what's rattling around in your skull.  And you never, not once, ever, have asked anyone if what you think is even remotely accurate or connected in any way to reality before you spout it.

[Taceus Jiwede]

I don't really know how copyright works in this case(or really any case).  But what if you created something inspired by the Nictus and Kheldian?

I guess what I am trying to say is they may own those particular ideas.  But they don't own the idea of a shape shifting alien that's uses its host in a symbiotic way. At least not that I know of. Animporh's I think had something similar except they were parasitic.  I'm sure someone like VV or  someone with a ittle more legal knowledge then myself (Which is none) can help you with just what exactly is considered the line between inspiration and infringement.

Just an idea.  It wouldn't be the first time someone was heavily "inspired" by another persons creative work.

[Aggelakis]

"Inspired by," yes. "Repainted copy of," no. That's what Baaleos was trying to suggest.

[Baaleos]

This is true, because they explicitly gave permission and encouraged fan fiction.

This is also true.

This is also true.

THIS IS NOT TRUE.  NCSoft could present you and your publisher with a Cease and Desist letter immediately.  Chances are, since you are a beginning writer, your publisher would immediately destroy all copies, and make you pay back the advance.  Or, if you are self-published, (likely e-published), when the Cease and Desist letter hit them, it is extremely likely that every single outlet for your work would blacklist you, making it impossible to sell your work anywhere but your own website.

Should NCSoft then decide to escalate to a court case and a lawsuit, they would file said lawsuit in the only state where they have a legal residence: California.  In order to pursue anything with that lawsuit, you would be forced to retain a Californian attorney and travel to California for all hearings, depositions, and the trial.

If your attorney didn't immediately tell you to bend over for NCSoft and take it like a man, and you were stupid enough to take it to trial, this is how the verdict would go.  NCSoft's attorney would read aloud the names and descriptions of your aliens and theirs to a jury.  The jury would then decide whether or not the descriptions and names were similar enough that the aliens were clear copies. 

If you lost, you'd be out all the money you spent defending yourself and whatever punitive costs the judge elected to slap you with.

If you won, you'd be out all the money you spent defending yourself.  Which would almost certainly exceed any money you had made or would ever make from the work by a factor of ten.

Is that something you really, really, really think you need to do?

Perhaps the examples given were too obvious or sarcastic..
But one could
'create an energy based life form in fiction, that lives off the life force of other creatures' and not be penalized by NCSoft.

The concept of a life draining creature in fiction is too generic and broad to be owned by anyone.
Its basically folk-lore vampire, meets sci-fi.

So, while using the names 'Nictus, Khicktus and so on' would be very obvious to NCSoft, and they could probably be successful in court.

If however I made an alien species called 'Ragnarians'  who were energy based life forms that also had shape shifting capabilities, who also had the unfortunate handycap of needing to feed on life energy. This is not immediately obviously linked to Nictus or Kheldians.
In fact - Energy based life forms have been in Sci-Fi for years.
Babylon 5, Star-trek, Stargate etc

If the name was sufficiently different, NCSoft would not have any monopoly on the concept of an energy based life form that drains life.
That being the case, even the glowing eyes would be out of their control to censor - since glowing eyes has been in Babylon 5 and Stargate and so many others.

[Taceus Jiwede]

It couldn't just be a different name though.  If you named them "Smithionan's" but it was a energy based life form.  And this life form was in a civil war of sort's over their natural unbound life span's and so one turned to dark force's. I think that would be infringement.

[Victoria Victrix]

It couldn't just be a different name though.  If you named them "Smithionan's" but it was a energy based life form.  And this life form was in a civil war of sort's over their natural unbound life span's and so one turned to dark force's. I think that would be infringement.

You are substantially correct.

Because this is what happens in a copyright-infringement or trademark-infringement suit if it goes to trial:

The judge presents the image/text/descriptions of both to a jury.  Twelve people who know shit about you, or (likely) about the company you allegedly infringed on.  They will likely know absolutely nothing about what SF franchises have already used that concept.  If your lawyer is smart, he will present these things.  If not...too bad, so sad for you.  If, in the opinions of 7 of those 12 people, the two are similar enough to be infringing, you lose.

If it does not go to trial, a judge will make that determination on his or her own. He or she will likely know absolutely nothing about what SF franchises have already used that concept.  If your lawyer is smart, he will present these things.  If not...too bad, so sad for you.  I should point out that with the majority of new judges being appointed being currently inclined to favor corporate interests, you would likely lose.

And in either case, you would still be out the cost of an attorney, and trips to California.

So it would be wisest to avoid this at all.  Create your parasitic/symbiotic energy lifeform with a name that looks nothing at all like NCSoft's, and has no similarity to the Kheldians and Nictus backstory.  If you are thinking of trying to write for a living and you can't manage to be at least that creative, there's no hope for you.

[Baaleos]

[Victoria Victrix]

You would be wise to avoid conflict with Stargate SG1/MGM at all costs.  TV/Movie production companies are known to be more or less litigious to the extent of actually shutting down non-profit fan fiction in the past.  While that has not happened recently, the minute profit enters the picture, the likelihood that they would act as I described NCSoft doing is such that I would not take the chance.  So don't go calling your races Ori and Ascended.

That said, there seems to be plenty of differentiation between your descriptions and NCSoft's and MGM's.  Just be exceptionally vigilant about similarities.

[Blue Pulsar]

Twilight and 50 Shades... Just saying.

For anyone who does know (and no one should... I'm embarrassed that I do), 50 Shades of Grey started out as online fanfic version of the Twilight series' characters. E.L. James' work became so popular amongst her fans on the different sites she posted it on, that she took it down, and put it on her own site. Then she rewrote it, changed the names and the setting a bit, and started selling it. EVERYONE knows it's a ripoff of Meyer's work. I've seen much of the Twilight movies, and read the first handful of chapters of 50 Shades, and could tell immediately where James got her inspiration.

Anyway, NOT GIVING ANY ADVICE HERE... but I thought that the example of these two works, one being a deformed, mutated, and badly written clone of the other, merited some mention here.

[Baaleos]

Thanks Pulsar,
I guess its just a risk that we take when you begin writing. Its inevitable to fall in love with some of the characters you create.
I created a fan-fic character who was Nictus, but kinda wanted to port him to a Non Marvel / Non-NCSoft story for potential use in publications.

So I basically had to uproot him and change his race and pieces of his history. (already a bitter-sweet experience, because im finding that it is affecting his personality)
That being said - I have started writing a manuscript for an eBook. (Its in Scrivener for the Mac - a very nice writing tool for Mac OSX)

Lets you define character sketches, races, planets/scene settings as research.

I've invented a somewhat unique back-story that links vaguely to NCSoft material, but is definitely unique enough that they cannot claim any sort of ownership.
'Inspired by' is what I went for, opposed to 'Derived from'

In my story,
2 Energy based races existed :
One was peaceful and luminescent : because they're species gave off extreme quantities of energy.

The other gave off energy that changed matter to anti-matter - so they are I guess you could say 'dark'.
this species also fed on life energy, I would picture them as animalistic in apperance: Imagine Venom from Spiderman, sharp teeth and tar like appearance, capable of shape shifting.

The peaceful race coexisted with the hostile race, save for a few skirmishes around borders of territory. The numbers of both race kept a balance.
However other space faring races harvested the first race for fuel and energy : which disrupted the balance of power in their sector.

This then meant that the second race out numbered the first, which then led to the extinction of the first race.
The space faring race, then turned their attention to the dark race, who with the right catalyst, could generate similar quantities of energy/fuel as the first race.

The space faring race would then employ hunters (bounty hunters) to hunt for members of either race - for their commodity value. (fuel/energy potential)
My story involves a human who becomes infested by a member of the latter species.

Imagine a Venom redemption story.  (I say Venom here, because I envision the creature in its unbound form, being like a Tar like creature with Animal like qualities.)
At first the human is somewhat feral after being infested by the creature in the Viking/Norse Era, but over hundreds of years and after taming the 'beast' he comes to be somewhat reasonably good at fitting into society.

Eventually the focal point of the story will involve extraterrestrial hunters finding him on Earth in Modern Day New York.
The story will focus much on his personality as his perception of humans changes from food to 'more than food'.

I would love for this Ebook to have illustrations and artwork, but at the moment I don't have the time/energy to devote to that as well.