Author Topic: Doctor Strange first teaser trailer  (Read 12082 times)

Arcana

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Doctor Strange first teaser trailer
« on: April 13, 2016, 06:15:48 AM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwcSki7r9cQ

Doctor Strange was my favorite comic book character when I was young.  I've been hopeful for this movie ever since Thor came out and they made *that* movie not be silly.  I think this first teaser sets the right tone.  I still think for all the complaints about the corporate suits interfering with the creative process at Marvel that the overall corporate direction towards letting the smaller movies go in different directions and then tying them into the big Avengers tentpoles is so far striking an amazing balance.  The Winter Soldier, Ant-Man, Guardians of the Galaxy are all completely different movies with completely different tones.  And I think people who say that people will get burned out on "superhero movies" is not seeing what I'm seeing: that Marvel realizes that their comic book properties aren't a genre, they are a setting.  Within that setting you can tell all kinds of different movies in different genres: spy thriller, heist, space opera.

They don't always succeed perfectly: I think The Dark World is the closest thing to a miss that Marvel has made so far in their Avengers movies.  But ironically given everyone's focus on "magic" for Doctor Strange it is possible that DS could be Marvel's forey into the pure scifi genre movie in the spirit of The Matrix or Inception.  Instead of magic working like it does in, say, Harry Potter, it could be that magic in the MCU is more like The Matrix, where people can rewrite the rules of reality by tapping into alternate realities, which is both fantastical and yet still grounded in a science fiction world.

November can't come soon enough.

Tenzhi

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Re: Doctor Strange first teaser trailer
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2016, 09:00:44 AM »
It's a little, well... *strange* to hear Cumberbatch doing an American accent.  I am looking forward to this one, though.
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LateNights

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Re: Doctor Strange first teaser trailer
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2016, 11:19:35 AM »
I was never a Strange fan myself as a kid, but I'm very interested to see the movie from what I saw in the trailer - pleasantly surprised that Benedict was FAR better than I gave him credit for (or at least feared may happen).

Actually, I saw it as the first Marvel movie I'd watch as a movie more than as a comic book movie, which was pretty neat.

Hell, I even thought the accent was perfect - but I never watched the Dr.

Sure looks likely by films end he'll have a not insignificant level of power to play with!!

That said, I always had the idea that Strange was tied to Angelic powers as a form of "magic", so I'm kinda sad that may change but the alternate realities angle does hold interest for me also...

Gotta ask though, what did you make of the scene where it appeared he was knocked out of his physical body and existed in spirit?
« Last Edit: April 13, 2016, 12:30:27 PM by LateNight »

Tenzhi

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Re: Doctor Strange first teaser trailer
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2016, 11:48:12 AM »
Astral projection has been a Doctor Strange staple for as long as I've been aware of him. 

Not sure where you got the idea that his magic was intrinsically angelic.  I might understand the association if it was Doctor Fate we were talking about.
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LateNights

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Re: Doctor Strange first teaser trailer
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2016, 12:29:54 PM »
Astral projection has been a Doctor Strange staple for as long as I've been aware of him. 

Not sure where you got the idea that his magic was intrinsically angelic.  I might understand the association if it was Doctor Fate we were talking about.

"Principality (disambiguation)
A principality is a monarchical feudatory or sovereign state, ruled or reigned over by a monarch with the title of prince or princess.

Principality may also refer to:

Principality (angel), an order in the Christian Angelic hierarchy
Principality Building Society, a financial services company"

The Principalities are somewhat similar in definition to the title Sorcerer Supreme...

That said I've never been a reader of his books, just the idea I got after looking him up once I unlocked him in a video game lmao!!

Astral projection doesn't strike me as sci fi in nature, don't get me wrong though, I'm not trying to argue - I'd love to see an element of both, with something rooted in sci fi but left open to interpretation as to just what forces the powers draw on...

(Mu bloodline Magic origin was part of my toons bio)

I am wondering what ideas people have as to how his powers will be explained though.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2016, 12:38:06 PM by LateNight »

Tenzhi

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Re: Doctor Strange first teaser trailer
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2016, 12:43:30 PM »
I didn't get a strong sci-fi vibe from the trailer.  There seemed to be Asian flavoured mysticism, the aforementioned astral projection, and the surreality typical of mystical travel between dimensions in the Marvel universe.

If they try to give it a sci-fi spin, I'll expect the typical parallel dimensions spiel and the word "quantum" to pop up in somewhere in the explanations.  If the hoary hosts of Hoggoth or the crimson bands of Cyttorak never get mentioned, though, I'll be disappointed.
When you insult someone by calling them a "pig" or a "dog" you aren't maligning pigs and dogs everywhere.  The same is true of any term used as an insult.

Arcana

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Re: Doctor Strange first teaser trailer
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2016, 06:57:34 PM »
If they try to give it a sci-fi spin, I'll expect the typical parallel dimensions spiel and the word "quantum" to pop up in somewhere in the explanations.  If the hoary hosts of Hoggoth or the crimson bands of Cyttorak never get mentioned, though, I'll be disappointed.

Well, he does seem to have the Eye of Agamotto, which some are speculating is an Infinity Stone.

In a sense alternate dimensions have always been a part of Doctor Strange's story, since as Sorcerer Supreme his primary job was protecting Earth from magical threats that often originated from other (magical) planes of reality.  Dormammu and Nightmare, two of his signature enemies, hailed from other dimensions, and the magical powers that he tapped into also were said to exist in other dimensions: Agamotto, Cyttorak, Watoom, and the Vishanti were all alternate dimension beings.

In canon, Dr. Strange was said to possess power, but most of his strength came from a sort of magical leverage: he tapped into the power of other magical beings to invoke their power.  The crimson bands of Cyttorak, for example.  It doesn't make much spin to define Dr. Strange's magic in the MCU as tapping into alternate dimensions where the laws of physics are radically different.  If magic is power that doesn't obey the laws of physics, maybe in the MCU that's because that power is just obeying a different universe's laws of physics.

Alternate realities don't have to have a strong quantum mechanical flavor to them.  Alternate dimension that aren't explained that way have already been introduced in Thor.  The technobabble technology used to travel between them might have the word quantum in there somewhere, but Asgard isn't really described as an alternate quantum reality in Thor.  And they've dropped hints that perhaps the dark matter in Agent Carter might have been tapped from the MCU's version of the Dark Dimensions - aka the home of Dormammu.

Vee

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Re: Doctor Strange first teaser trailer
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2016, 07:09:43 PM »
Kinda struck me as weird that the last shot would be of him having earned his cloak of levitation but walking up stairs. Then again someone who went through med school and extensive mystical training is clearly less lazy than i am.

Arcana

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Re: Doctor Strange first teaser trailer
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2016, 07:13:32 PM »
"Principality (disambiguation)
A principality is a monarchical feudatory or sovereign state, ruled or reigned over by a monarch with the title of prince or princess.

Principality may also refer to:

Principality (angel), an order in the Christian Angelic hierarchy
Principality Building Society, a financial services company"

The Principalities are somewhat similar in definition to the title Sorcerer Supreme...

That said I've never been a reader of his books, just the idea I got after looking him up once I unlocked him in a video game lmao!!

Astral projection doesn't strike me as sci fi in nature, don't get me wrong though, I'm not trying to argue - I'd love to see an element of both, with something rooted in sci fi but left open to interpretation as to just what forces the powers draw on...

(Mu bloodline Magic origin was part of my toons bio)

I am wondering what ideas people have as to how his powers will be explained though.

The title of Sorcerer Supreme isn't meant to convey any sort of rulership: Dr. Strange doesn't have any kind of authority over other sorcerers: he's not a leader in that sense.  The title is more like "champion of the realm" - he is the chosen to be the defender of Earth from magical threats, of which there are many in the Marvel Universe.  As Sorcerer Supreme he inherits a lot of magical help: the Eye of Agamotto for example is that amulet he wears around his neck and in the Marvel Universe it is one of the most powerful magical artifacts known.

Astral Projection is one of those in-between abilities that can be shown as both magical and scifi in nature.  Its closely related to telepathy in that regard: sometimes telepathy has scifi roots and sometimes magical roots.  The thing about altered mental states is that its a tricky thing to ask what's "really" happening.  Phillip K. Dick made an entire career dancing around that question, but my favorite expression of this conundrum comes in the movie Harry Potter and the Deathly Hollows Part Two (its also in the book).  When Harry is "killed" and sees Dumbledore in limbo, Harry asks Dumbledore if his experience is real or just in his head.  And Dumbledore tells him of course it is all happening in his head, but why should that mean it isn't real.

Maybe what we're seeing is all happening in Strange's head.  But it might still be a real experience.

Arcana

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Re: Doctor Strange first teaser trailer
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2016, 07:21:42 PM »
Kinda struck me as weird that the last shot would be of him having earned his cloak of levitation but walking up stairs. Then again someone who went through med school and extensive mystical training is clearly less lazy than i am.

Heh.  In the comics, Dr. Strange's training included martial arts, mind and body discipline and all that.  So Strange was probably trying to get his fitbit counters up by walking up and down his stairs.

LateNights

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Re: Doctor Strange first teaser trailer
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2016, 08:03:50 PM »
In the Christian Angelic hierarchy the Principalities are akin to guardians of a realm I believe, might have read it wrong though, but the rulers were part of another tier in the hierarchy.

It seems his powers come from several different sources though...

I dig what you say about it being an altered state and yet still real - makes me wish I had a better grip on science / sci fi so I could trip out about it properly but I guess the movie will have to do, lol!

And the thinking he'll come across one of the stones, well spotted!!

Again, I'm genuinely excited to see it (although I'll still wait like a dope until it hits cable :-\), heck I've watched the teaser twice and probably will a few more times cause those are some pretty, pretty effects - particularly what they've done with the multiple dimensions folded over and into each other!!

I really should get along to the cinema to see it...


 

Arcana

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Re: Doctor Strange first teaser trailer
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2016, 08:16:03 PM »
In the Christian Angelic hierarchy the Principalities are akin to guardians of a realm I believe, might have read it wrong though, but the rulers were part of another tier in the hierarchy.

My understanding is that they were sort of middle manager archangels.  They had duties to protect certain things and commanded angels under them to carry out those duties.  Among the angels tasked with earthly things, they were the top dogs, but lesser to the angels that were tasked with, say, managing the cosmos directly for God.

I read about these when I first starting reading the webcomic Misfile, a webcomic I still read and used to advertise in my sig on the official forums.

Of course, the whole idea of angelic hierarchies is kind of religious fan fiction.  The Bible and other primary sources are sketchy and contradictory, and often subject to mistranslation across centuries, so the people who tried to rationalize this were very much like Star Trek fans trying to figure out how the Romulans could have waged an interstellar war with Earth prior to the invention of warp drive.    So what these things are depends on which works you decide to read.  The Principalities are like the Celestials in that regard.

Arcana

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Re: Doctor Strange first teaser trailer
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2016, 08:24:10 PM »
Also, the major two comic book publishers have been loathe to cross certain lines when it comes to religion.  Marvel seems a lot more averse to introducing what we'd describe as Judeo-Christian powers into its universe.  DC seems more willing: it has characters directly connected to Judeo-Christian powers like the Spectre.  But I think Marvel has always steered cosmic beings and their ilk like Doctor Strange away from the question of divinity.  Marvel has devils, but it tends to shy away from angels and God.

Christianity is there in the Marvel Universe: see Daredevil.  But actual archangels and divinely empowered heroes?  At best its left very vague, and usually its explicitly stated to be not that.

LateNights

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Re: Doctor Strange first teaser trailer
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2016, 08:30:37 PM »
My understanding is that LateNights knows things.

(Possibly not an actual quote)...

In my totally biased point of view I'm now more certain that the principalities and Sorcerer Supreme are exactly the same thing ;D

Seriously though, Sorcerer Supreme doesn't mean Strange is tasked with an overseer type of role on Earth?

Still, I don't know more than the very little I read on the wiki though.

That said, what about the One above All?

Arcana

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Re: Doctor Strange first teaser trailer
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2016, 09:25:16 PM »
Seriously though, Sorcerer Supreme doesn't mean Strange is tasked with an overseer type of role on Earth?

I guess the difference to me is that overseers, like the Principalities, don't just protect but guide mankind.  Dr. Strange protects mankind from magical threats, but he's not a guardian in the guidance-sense.  Its not his job to guide humanity anywhere.  If anything he's often portrayed as not wanting to meddle in "normal" human affairs.

I am of course setting aside his participation in the (Marvel) Illuminati council, which was less Principality and more Star Chamber.

Quote
That said, what about the One above All?

That's a weird one.  My knowledge of Marvel cosmology is a bit dated, but what I can recall is that from the earliest stories Dr. Strange interacted with a being called Eternity, which was sort of the personification of the entire universe.  It is Eternity that sort of validates Stephen Strange's title of being the Sorcerer Supreme of Earth, meaning the dimension that includes Earth, because Earth is always the most important place in the universe.  Left unspoken is how one guy can protect an entire universe, ala the Green Lantern problem.  If Stephen Strange has a boss, in a sense it is Eternity.

Since Eternity is the personification of this (the Marvel Comics main) dimension (aka Earth-616), other universes could have other personifications.  Thus, the question of who is more powerful than all the various Eternities and other universal personifications.  Thus, the Living Tribunal was invented to fill that role, as the supreme arbiter of the Marvel multiverse.  However, the Tribunal was depicted as a judge: he was introduced as a being that had the power to decide if a reality was worth existing or was too dangerous and had to be destroyed.  Because it was a judge (and executioner) it kinda made sense that he would serve a higher purpose or power, and thus it was said he worked for a being above all others - eventually "the one above all others" became known as the One Above All, the ultimate power of all possible realities.  Given the cosmological escalation that tends to happen in the Marvel Universe (Galactus, Celestials, Eternity, Living Tribunal, Beyonder, Beyonders, ...) having a being known as "The One Above All" at least prevents anyone from asking the stupid question of who is more powerful than the one above all.  By definition, there is nothing and no one more powerful (then again, the Beyonders are one of those stupid decisions that probably seemed cool at the time, except for taking a dump on all previous cosmological continuity, something a lot of comic book writers seem to love to do).

Since the One Above All is the ultimate, ultimate power of all the Marvel multiverse, some say it is essentially God.  However, there's no way to prove that, its just said that there is a higher power than the Living Tribunal, who is the ultimate arbiter of existence.

Also, there was the time the Fantastic Four managed to escape all of reality and find the One Above All, and this happened:





The personification of the ultimate power of creation, the only way the mortal minds of the Fantastic Four were able to conceptualize the ultimate creator of all existence, turned out to be Jack Kirby, who is of course the co-creator of the Fantastic Four (along with Stan Lee: the last panel references that).

Tenzhi

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Re: Doctor Strange first teaser trailer
« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2016, 09:54:49 PM »
So, what you're saying, is we should expect Stan Lee's cameo in Doctor Strange to be as God.  :)
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Arcana

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Re: Doctor Strange first teaser trailer
« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2016, 10:16:20 PM »
So, what you're saying, is we should expect Stan Lee's cameo in Doctor Strange to be as God.  :)


Vee

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Re: Doctor Strange first teaser trailer
« Reply #17 on: April 13, 2016, 10:24:35 PM »
iirc Eternity was (at least early on), as one would expect from an all-encompassing Being, usually uninterested in Strange's or anyone else's activities. Strange would on occasion be able to convince it to intervene if something particularly universe shattering came up. Though admittedly my Dr. Strange readings ended with whatever point vol 3 of the essential collection ended at and as of yet I've not gone back to reread the later stuff since my collection of digital scans itself became a being of cosmic proportions.

The One Above All sounds pretty much top-dog, but until That Than Which Nothing Greater Can Be Retconned comes along I wouldn't trust them to be finished.

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Re: Doctor Strange first teaser trailer
« Reply #18 on: April 13, 2016, 10:46:17 PM »
So Strange was probably trying to get his fitbit counters up by walking up and down his stairs.
I'm terribly amused by the thought of Dr. Strange obsessively checking his Fitbit to see if he's gotten enough steps in each day to spend the rest of the day levitating.
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Arcana

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Re: Doctor Strange first teaser trailer
« Reply #19 on: April 13, 2016, 10:54:10 PM »
The One Above All sounds pretty much top-dog, but until That Than Which Nothing Greater Can Be Retconned comes along I wouldn't trust them to be finished.

Given what Marvel did with the Beyonders, it is safe to say that when it comes to cosmic beings the Marvel editorial staff have all the conceptual restraint of a school bus of eight year olds arguing over whose dad can beat up the others dad.  If someone creates an immovable object in the Marvel Universe, someone else must come up with an irresistible force that can move it, and then someone else must come up with a retcon that says the immovable object only moved because it took pity on the irresistible force, and then someone else has to invent the creator of the immovable object and irresistible force who can resist the force and move the object because he is the one above all forces and objects, and then someone else has to come up with the destroyer of worlds that contain forces and objects, because comic book writers have issues.