Author Topic: Suicide Squad  (Read 17060 times)

Dev7on

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Suicide Squad
« on: August 07, 2016, 03:55:46 AM »
Since there is no thread about this movie I'm going to start this thread even though I haven't seen the movie but, I will someday. I know some of you guys want to talk about it. If you did see the movie what do you guys think even though Rotten Tomatoes bombed the movie.

Tenzhi

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2016, 07:16:21 AM »
Supposed to be seeing it Sunday night, myself.  Last I checked, the audience score on Rotten Tomatoes was decent, despite the grim critics' score.  And Andre the Black Nerd had enough positive things to say about it that I'm still giving it a chance at the theatre level...

https://youtu.be/Oov84ISkzvc
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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2016, 01:14:11 PM »
It's another staggeringly awful entry in this catastrophic attempt by WB to make a DC cinematic universe - so the biggest thing that it has going for it is that it moves us another step closer to the reboot.
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Tenzhi

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2016, 02:30:47 AM »
Just got back from seeing it.  It was pretty fun.  I'd watch it again over any of the X-men movies I've seen.  Or over Nolan's third Batman.  The Joker was kinda crappy, but still more watchable than Eisenlex.
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doc7924

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2016, 01:57:31 PM »
What it is it that DC gets so wrong and Marvel gets so right making films?

And I mean Marvel films - not the films not made by them.

That being said - Deadpool was fantastic and I cant believe that came from Fox. The new FF was a great film about people getting super powers. Just wasn't a good FF film.

The Chris Reeve Superman films were fun and well done. (well most of them, ok two of them)

The Keaton Bat films were ok. The others - meh. I only loved the one with Mr. Freeze for the Cold Miser joke.

And its not because they stray from the source - most of the Marvel films changed a lot from the comic book source and they still work.

I think DC is trying too hard to catch up to Marvel and its screwing them up.

Could be also that Marvel films has Marvel people working on them. DC is owned by Warner but they probably don't have much say as to what goes in to the films.

At least DC does good TV. and animated.

hurple

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2016, 03:32:43 PM »
What it is it that DC gets so wrong and Marvel gets so right making films?

And I mean Marvel films - not the films not made by them.

That being said - Deadpool was fantastic and I cant believe that came from Fox. The new FF was a great film about people getting super powers. Just wasn't a good FF film.

The Chris Reeve Superman films were fun and well done. (well most of them, ok two of them)

The Keaton Bat films were ok. The others - meh. I only loved the one with Mr. Freeze for the Cold Miser joke.

And its not because they stray from the source - most of the Marvel films changed a lot from the comic book source and they still work.

I think DC is trying too hard to catch up to Marvel and its screwing them up.

Could be also that Marvel films has Marvel people working on them. DC is owned by Warner but they probably don't have much say as to what goes in to the films.

At least DC does good TV. and animated.


The main difference seems to be that Marvel put a guy in charge who loves the characters and wants to see them celebrated on screen.  Meanwhile DC has a goober who's on record as not liking the characters he's bringing to screen and wanting to "Watchmen" them up. 

Maybe now that Geoff Johns has been moved into position to help with the films they can get better.  Although, from the recent changes he spearheaded in the comics, I'm not sure, yet. 


hurple

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2016, 03:36:33 PM »
Oh... and I saw the film on Saturday and really enjoyed it.  It's exactly the chaotic mess that a Suicide Squad movie *should* be.  The characterizations were nearly all spot on.  And save for a moment with Amanda Waller, I have few quibbles with the story.  (Although, team member going rogue should not be the first movie)

And, I like this Joker.  He seems like the kind of psychopath that would cause a guy to dress like a bat to fight him. 

 ;D


doc7924

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2016, 04:13:50 PM »
Oh... and I saw the film on Saturday and really enjoyed it.  It's exactly the chaotic mess that a Suicide Squad movie *should* be.  The characterizations were nearly all spot on.  And save for a moment with Amanda Waller, I have few quibbles with the story.  (Although, team member going rogue should not be the first movie)

And, I like this Joker.  He seems like the kind of psychopath that would cause a guy to dress like a bat to fight him. 

 ;D

I haven't seen it yet but I love that each Joker actor does his own thing. The 1966 TV Joker was more clown then menacing and Ledger's Joker was the other way around.

It would be boring if every actor just played him the same way.

Tenzhi

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2016, 04:17:18 PM »
I could have liked the Joker... sans the metal teeth and with some humour added.

The main problem I had with the plot, is that the Squad was sent to take care of a problem that, ultimately, was caused by the very formation of the Squad in the first place.
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hurple

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2016, 05:12:10 PM »
I could have liked the Joker... sans the metal teeth and with some humour added.

The main problem I had with the plot, is that the Squad was sent to take care of a problem that, ultimately, was caused by the very formation of the Squad in the first place.

Yeah, that should not have been the first movie.  Or, their first mission. 


Taceus Jiwede

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2016, 03:38:41 AM »
Just got back from seeing it.  It was pretty fun.  I'd watch it again over any of the X-men movies I've seen.  Or over Nolan's third Batman.  The Joker was kinda crappy, but still more watchable than Eisenlex.

I haven't seen it yet but part of my concern is how the handled the Joker.  I get the Heath Ledger did an awesome job doing a darker Joker, but he still very much captured the essence of the Joker.

From what I read of Jared Leto's Performance of the Joker is that he just took the dark and psychotic part too far and didn't focus enough on the Jokers real function which is "Everyone is one bad day from being the bad guy." its such a pure and simple character - I am here to ruin sh**, with a smile. 

Anyway my concern is that he wasn't able to capture that, would you agree?  I'll probably see it in the next day or so before I actually bad mouth the performance of an actor I haven't seen yet :p  but that is what my gut is telling me.

Tenzhi

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2016, 04:47:28 AM »
Yeah... he was just psycho violent guy.  It's a shame, because there was a moment or two with him and Harley together that were pretty good, but they're gone in a flash and it's back to generic psycho trying to get by on a zany aesthetic.
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hurple

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2016, 01:00:25 PM »
Yeah... he was just psycho violent guy.  It's a shame, because there was a moment or two with him and Harley together that were pretty good, but they're gone in a flash and it's back to generic psycho trying to get by on a zany aesthetic.

But, to be fair, there really wasn't much else that he could have done with the little time he was in the film.  I thought there was plenty of "zaniness" to get the point across (like the funny costumes for his henchmen) overall.


Tenzhi

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2016, 04:57:54 PM »
He could have smiled more, since they unfortunately didn't give him the slightest attempt at a permanent grin on his face.  And his lines could have been funny, or at least twisted attempts at humour, but that's not the actor's fault.  In short: Why so serious?
When you insult someone by calling them a "pig" or a "dog" you aren't maligning pigs and dogs everywhere.  The same is true of any term used as an insult.

RGladden

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2016, 05:05:47 PM »
"I'm going to make this pencil....disappear."

saipaman

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2016, 07:54:59 PM »
Who thinks 'Sausage Party' will be better than 'Suicide Squad'?

Tenzhi

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2016, 08:58:04 PM »
Who thinks 'Sausage Party' will be better than 'Suicide Squad'?

I was disturbed the other day when it was 100% fresh on rottentomatoes...  I had little faith in critics before, but that rocketed it to nil.
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Arcana

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2016, 09:31:17 PM »
Overall: 6.5/10 if you're a comic book fan, 4.0/10 if you're not.

The good:

Margot Robbie does a spot-on Harley Quinn that's actually an interesting in the movie itself.  Will Smith does a passable if not noteworthy Deadshot.  Viola Davis adds necessary gravitas to Amanda Waller that the script itself doesn't provide enough of.


The bad:

If you were not Waller, Deadshot, Harley, Joker, or Diablo I have no idea why you were in the movie at all.  Compared to, say, Civil War or even Star Trek Beyond, this movie does a horrible job balancing its ensemble.  In general, only Deadshot and Diablo have any sort of character arcs at all.  Flagg in particular was ... disappointing.


The ugly:

Some of this is a matter of taste, but objectively speaking Jared Leto's performance did not live up to the hype surrounding it.  Granted its not easy to portray the Joker.  Heath Ledger did a uniquely admiral job trying to reinvent the character from its Jack Nicholson iteration and you can't expect that every time.  But Jared Leto's Joker's biggest crime was that in my opinion it was boring.  Nicholson's Joker was an over the top PT Barnum meets Al Capone showman, infused with a healthy dose of Jack Nicholson (all of Jack Nicholson's performances are infused with an awful lot of Jack Nicholson).  Ledger's Joker was concentrated psychopath wearing a Ledger suit.  Jared Leto's Joker felt to me like Travis Bickle cosplaying as the Joker minus Robert De Niro.

Also, the plot.  Without spoilers, the plot nullifies the emotional reason for the Suicide Squad to exist.  I didn't care for that at all.  It was an unnecessary weakening of the premise.  Also, it inevitably turns Flagg into a character I never want to see again.  Not because I hate the character, but because literally: ugh.


The stinger:

Yes, there's a mid credit stinger.  I'm not sure how I feel about the stinger.  On the one hand, I think it makes one particular character far weaker than I think fits the character.  On the other hand, that seems to get almost repaired at the end of the stinger.  50/50?  Overall, I felt it was the DC version of the moment at the end of Iron Man when Fury approaches Stark in that movie's stinger.  But I didn't get the same level of excitement from it, because ...?  Not sure really.  Just didn't.  Maybe because I know Suicide Squad is ultimately not central to the Justice League core movies.


Overall, if you're a comic book fan I think there's enough in there to make an enjoyable popcorn movie that has about the right tone for a Suicide Squad movie.  The characterizations aren't bad, the action is pretty good, and the pacing is reasonable.  Its a reasonable interpretation of the characters you already know.  If you're not a fan and don't know who any of these people are or why you should care, I probably wouldn't recommend it to you.  The plot will seem nonsensical, the characters a bit wooden and two-dimensional, the critical jump-moment of the plot will probably be unnecessarily confusing, and you won't understand why Waller is supposed to be capable of corralling this bag of lunatics.

Arcana

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2016, 10:10:45 PM »
What it is it that DC gets so wrong and Marvel gets so right making films?

They do a lot of things better.  Marvel has patience.  Look at the arc of the three Iron Man movies, the three Captain America Movies, the three Thor movies.  Since the first Iron Man movie, we've been watching these movies for eight years now.

Marvel movies also tend to be very character focused.  The Iron Man movies is not about Iron Man, they are about Tony Stark.  The Thor movies are about Thor the person not Thor the thunder god.  The Captain America movies are really about Steve Rogers.

The Avengers movie profited from both good things.  Patience let Marvel develop the characters in stand alone features that focused on the specific characters so we would know and care about them.  So when the Avengers movie comes out we don't have to develop these characters from scratch: we already know them.  We already know the prime antagonist Loki.  We already know the core heroes and Nick Fury.  We can just let the story flow organically.

But I think maybe the least appreciated thing Marvel does well is something it does because it was forced to.  Marvel couldn't make movies about its most popular characters and strongest properties.  It couldn't make Spiderman movies or X-Men movies or even Fantastic Four or Hulk movies because of licensing issues.  It couldn't make movies about the characters people knew the best.  So it had to go to the well and pull up less well-known characters.  Which is not to say that Captain America or Iron Man are unknowns, but compared to Spiderman their backstories are less familiar.  So Marvel couldn't rely on people just knowing who these characters were, and had to invent them for the movies.  Captain America and Iron Man have decades of twisted conflicting backstory.  Marvel had to reduce that down to something simple they could convey on-screen.  Marvel seems to be extremely good at taking a character like Captain America and distilling it down to something simple that movie goers can understand.  He's a naive eager boy-scout that just wants to fight for his country, and is gifted with the ability to do so but finds the politics of it to be something he didn't expect.  He's a straight arrow in a crooked world.  Tony Stark is a rich genius with engineer's syndrome: he thinks he can fix anything with technology.  But he also has PTSD (from multiple trauma) and guilt (also from multiple instances).  Tony Stark is easy to understand: he's tech-smart, but emotionally stunted.  His heart is in the right place but he doesn't have the morals or the boundaries that would prevent him from throwing gasoline on a fire to try to put it out.  Even Thor is someone audiences can relate to.  He's kind of a spoiled child trying to live up to his strict uncompromising father.

Marvel takes comic book characters with fifty years of history, waves a magic wand, and turns them into blank slates.  Then they try to extract a core nucleus of character and backstory that neophyte audiences will be able to appreciate and relate to, and then rebuilds their world around that core.  Asgard is what it is specifically because it serves to understand Thor.  SHIELD and HYDRA exist specifically in the forms they do because it is the world that creates the best opportunity to tell interesting stories about Steve Rogers, super-boy scout.  And in a synergy that feeds itself Marvel builds worlds to suit its characters, then adapts its characters to fit that world.  Ant-Man is the version he is because that fits into the MCU.  Spiderman very obviously is going to be an iteration of Spiderman that fits into the MCU with specific ties to the MCU version of Tony Stark.  I have faith that magic in the MCU will be explicitly a version of magic that fits the MCU and provides the best opportunity to tell an interesting Doctor Strange story, and the version of Doctor Strange we get will explicitly be the one that they can tell the best story about within the current MCU.

I guess if I had to summarize all of that, I'd say what Marvel does well that DC hasn't done well or even at all is they are really good world-builders.  The characters fit the environment and the story, the environment shapes the story and the characters, and the story serves the characters and the environment.  They set reasonable goals for the next step in world building, then execute that goal very well.  They do not try to do more than what their world can contain, but they always try to push the envelope of their world outward for the next set of movies to inhabit.

Notably, people complain that the Batman we see in BvS or the Superman we see in Man of Steel aren't the characters we know.  But actually, the Tony Stark in the MCU isn't really the Tony Stark we knew either, neither is the Thor or the Cap, taken literally.  But you know what?  We *like* the MCU Stark and Rogers and Thor.  And because of that, we see those characters through a prism where we can see how they touch the comic book material in certain places, and we forgive the fact that they aren't exact replicas because we think that the limited parts they did borrow connect the MCU versions of the characters sufficiently well.  We allow that the MCU Thor was "inspired by" the comic book Thor.  But that only works if you start with a character worth liking in the first place.  I think that's why many fans seem to simultaneously hate all the killing that Batman does in BvS and yet praise Ben Affleck for portraying the character.  We like Affleck's portrayal of Batman so we can forgive *him* the fact his Batman does things we think are out of character.  We aren't as crazy about Superman's characterization, so we are much harsher about the "fidelity" of that portrayal.

Dev7on

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #19 on: August 10, 2016, 11:01:26 PM »
I just came back from seeing Suicide Squad and I don't like the new Joker. He's like the new gang leader of the Skulls in City of Heroes. Jared Leto's Joker is a Thug with Thug Mastermind pets.

The movie is colorful, I loved the colors they add in the movie. It reminds me when Issue 16 was introduced in City of Heroes that Paragon Studios gave us the option to change the colors of the powers, you form a team and you get to see the beautiful colors other players had put their creativity into their powers.

There is a lot of eye candy.  ;)

I love the characters they're funny. El Diablo and Harley Quinn is my favorite.

I was more distracted with the pop songs they added in movie more than the actual movie itself. Some songs worked well in some scenes and some of them didn't.

What I don't like about the movie is the editing, the story, and the villain. I got a feeling this movie will also have an R-rated extended version when it's released on DVD to understand the plot a little better.

So my overall will be 5.8/10
« Last Edit: August 10, 2016, 11:16:40 PM by Dev7on »

Dev7on

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #20 on: August 10, 2016, 11:28:09 PM »
ALSO! I want to get this off my chest....

Spoiler for Hidden:
Do you think Enchantress' origin is similar to Scirocco?? Because I think so.

Arcana

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #21 on: August 10, 2016, 11:43:45 PM »
ALSO! I want to get this off my chest....

Spoiler for Hidden:
Do you think Enchantress' origin is similar to Scirocco?? Because I think so.

Not sure this needed spoiler protection, but fair enough:

Spoiler for Hidden:
Not really to me.  Scirocco wasn't inhabited by another being, my understanding was that he was "turned" like Vader to the Dark Side by a curse.  The Enchantress is a completely separate being from Dr. Moon, as the ending itself makes clear.  In terms of the overall "finding dark artifact in cave" part of the origin, that's common enough to be a distinct scifi/horror trope.

doc7924

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #22 on: August 11, 2016, 01:43:52 AM »
They do a lot of things better.  Marvel has patience.  Look at the arc of the three Iron Man movies, the three Captain America Movies, the three Thor movies.  Since the first Iron Man movie, we've been watching these movies for eight years now.

Marvel movies also tend to be very character focused.  The Iron Man movies is not about Iron Man, they are about Tony Stark.  The Thor movies are about Thor the person not Thor the thunder god.  The Captain America movies are really about Steve Rogers.

The Avengers movie profited from both good things.  Patience let Marvel develop the characters in stand alone features that focused on the specific characters so we would know and care about them.  So when the Avengers movie comes out we don't have to develop these characters from scratch: we already know them.  We already know the prime antagonist Loki.  We already know the core heroes and Nick Fury.  We can just let the story flow organically.

But I think maybe the least appreciated thing Marvel does well is something it does because it was forced to.  Marvel couldn't make movies about its most popular characters and strongest properties.  It couldn't make Spiderman movies or X-Men movies or even Fantastic Four or Hulk movies because of licensing issues.  It couldn't make movies about the characters people knew the best.  So it had to go to the well and pull up less well-known characters.  Which is not to say that Captain America or Iron Man are unknowns, but compared to Spiderman their backstories are less familiar.  So Marvel couldn't rely on people just knowing who these characters were, and had to invent them for the movies.  Captain America and Iron Man have decades of twisted conflicting backstory.  Marvel had to reduce that down to something simple they could convey on-screen.  Marvel seems to be extremely good at taking a character like Captain America and distilling it down to something simple that movie goers can understand.  He's a naive eager boy-scout that just wants to fight for his country, and is gifted with the ability to do so but finds the politics of it to be something he didn't expect.  He's a straight arrow in a crooked world.  Tony Stark is a rich genius with engineer's syndrome: he thinks he can fix anything with technology.  But he also has PTSD (from multiple trauma) and guilt (also from multiple instances).  Tony Stark is easy to understand: he's tech-smart, but emotionally stunted.  His heart is in the right place but he doesn't have the morals or the boundaries that would prevent him from throwing gasoline on a fire to try to put it out.  Even Thor is someone audiences can relate to.  He's kind of a spoiled child trying to live up to his strict uncompromising father.

Marvel takes comic book characters with fifty years of history, waves a magic wand, and turns them into blank slates.  Then they try to extract a core nucleus of character and backstory that neophyte audiences will be able to appreciate and relate to, and then rebuilds their world around that core.  Asgard is what it is specifically because it serves to understand Thor.  SHIELD and HYDRA exist specifically in the forms they do because it is the world that creates the best opportunity to tell interesting stories about Steve Rogers, super-boy scout.  And in a synergy that feeds itself Marvel builds worlds to suit its characters, then adapts its characters to fit that world.  Ant-Man is the version he is because that fits into the MCU.  Spiderman very obviously is going to be an iteration of Spiderman that fits into the MCU with specific ties to the MCU version of Tony Stark.  I have faith that magic in the MCU will be explicitly a version of magic that fits the MCU and provides the best opportunity to tell an interesting Doctor Strange story, and the version of Doctor Strange we get will explicitly be the one that they can tell the best story about within the current MCU.

I guess if I had to summarize all of that, I'd say what Marvel does well that DC hasn't done well or even at all is they are really good world-builders.  The characters fit the environment and the story, the environment shapes the story and the characters, and the story serves the characters and the environment.  They set reasonable goals for the next step in world building, then execute that goal very well.  They do not try to do more than what their world can contain, but they always try to push the envelope of their world outward for the next set of movies to inhabit.

Notably, people complain that the Batman we see in BvS or the Superman we see in Man of Steel aren't the characters we know.  But actually, the Tony Stark in the MCU isn't really the Tony Stark we knew either, neither is the Thor or the Cap, taken literally.  But you know what?  We *like* the MCU Stark and Rogers and Thor.  And because of that, we see those characters through a prism where we can see how they touch the comic book material in certain places, and we forgive the fact that they aren't exact replicas because we think that the limited parts they did borrow connect the MCU versions of the characters sufficiently well.  We allow that the MCU Thor was "inspired by" the comic book Thor.  But that only works if you start with a character worth liking in the first place.  I think that's why many fans seem to simultaneously hate all the killing that Batman does in BvS and yet praise Ben Affleck for portraying the character.  We like Affleck's portrayal of Batman so we can forgive *him* the fact his Batman does things we think are out of character.  We aren't as crazy about Superman's characterization, so we are much harsher about the "fidelity" of that portrayal.

Perfectly said. As you say they took Cap and Iron Man and others and made them like real people and for the most part they kept the origins and background intact. The biggest deviation was the Thor film, but it didn't matter. You didn't need him as Don Blake turning into Thor, Thor was character enough.

I think the new Bruce Banner actor is great in the role. Before they always tried to make him this skinny, nerdy little guy and you don't have to. Bruce Banner is just as compelling a character as the Hulk is.

This is why I think DC does TV better like Flash and Arrow - they have time to build up slowly and it works.

Arcana

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #23 on: August 11, 2016, 04:11:58 AM »
I think the new Bruce Banner actor is great in the role. Before they always tried to make him this skinny, nerdy little guy and you don't have to. Bruce Banner is just as compelling a character as the Hulk is.

I think the Eric Bana portrayal of Banner was actually pretty good.  I think you could see that inside of that guy the Hulk was always there under the surface.  He was someone with rage and personality issues.  I think the Edward Norton Banner suffers the problem you mention, that Banner is kind of milquetoast.  I could see why they went that way, but it turned the Banner/Hulk dichotomy into too much of a duality: two different people in (sort of) one body.  I really like the Mark Ruffalo version of Banner in that I see a little something of what I saw at times during Peter David's run on the Hulk where the Hulk wasn't just a monster that Banner turned into but was an aspect of Banner himself.  Although it was described as a multiple personality, it was actually characterized more as a splintered personality with the Hulk and Banner different aspects of the same person.  Ruffalo's Banner is interesting to me because he isn't "the other guy" to the Hulk's "other guy."  Whether he wants to admit it or not he is the Hulk.

Along those lines one thing I didn't like about Leto's Joker compared to Ledger's Joker is that in Suicide Squad the Joker is portrayed as actually running an organization.  The Suicide Squad movie is certainly not the first time the Joker has been portrayed as such, but to me the way it is portrayed undercut the manic unrestrained aspect of the Joker that Leto seemed to be trying to convey.  His Joker is a new age emo Joker that spends time scribbling on walls *and* runs a criminal organization?  The Leto Joker seems to be at least two different people, and not in an interesting multiple sides of personality way.  More like a pair of twins pretending to be one person and living separate lives.

The Ledger Joker is comprehensible even in his incomprehensibility.  We can at least conceptualize that Joker even if we can't actually relate.  We can at least conceptualize the Nicholson Joker even if we cannot relate.  I cannot really conceptualize the Leto Joker, and there's no such thing as the artistic decision to portray a character that can't be characterized by the audience (or if there is, its generally not a good decision).

When I look at the Bana Banner, I see the Hulk as something inside of him.  When I look at the Norton Banner, I see the Hulk as something he becomes.  When I look at the Ruffalo Banner, I see the Hulk as something he unleashes

When I look at the Leto Joker, I don't know what I see (figuratively, not literally: I have eyes).  And while there are those that like his version of the Joker, I still think that's a problem.

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #24 on: August 11, 2016, 05:25:48 AM »
When I look at Leto's Joker, I mostly see an actor.  And I don't mean that in the literal sense of "oh, look, it's that Leto guy in makeup".  I mean that this Joker is a run of the mill thug playing the part of a legend.  The more theatrical bits of window dressing are just there for show.
When you insult someone by calling them a "pig" or a "dog" you aren't maligning pigs and dogs everywhere.  The same is true of any term used as an insult.

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #25 on: August 11, 2016, 08:39:48 PM »
When I look at Leto's Joker, I mostly see an actor.  And I don't mean that in the literal sense of "oh, look, it's that Leto guy in makeup".  I mean that this Joker is a run of the mill thug playing the part of a legend.  The more theatrical bits of window dressing are just there for show.

You know, if you told me that the official backstory was that the original Joker killed Robin, and Batman killed him in a moment of weakness and then never told anyone. and then a disturbed individual decided to try to copycat the Joker and then killed everyone who knew the difference, I'd buy that.

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #26 on: August 11, 2016, 11:40:16 PM »
When I look at Leto's Joker, I mostly see an actor.  And I don't mean that in the literal sense of "oh, look, it's that Leto guy in makeup".  I mean that this Joker is a run of the mill thug playing the part of a legend.  The more theatrical bits of window dressing are just there for show.
So more reminiscent of the Jokers gang in Batman Beyond, then?
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Taceus Jiwede

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #27 on: August 12, 2016, 09:54:02 PM »
So more reminiscent of the Jokers gang in Batman Beyond, then?

You know, if you told me that the official backstory was that the original Joker killed Robin, and Batman killed him in a moment of weakness and then never told anyone. and then a disturbed individual decided to try to copycat the Joker and then killed everyone who knew the difference, I'd buy that.

When  I see the movie this is what I am going imagine, also in Dawn of Justice Batman killed TONS of people.  So it wouldn't surprise me that much.

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #28 on: August 12, 2016, 10:09:16 PM »
I honestly don't recall him actually killing many people in DoJ.
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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #29 on: August 13, 2016, 12:59:36 AM »

Arcana

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #30 on: August 13, 2016, 02:02:41 AM »
It was always just in passing, he never killed anyone with his hands but he did shoot a lot of vehicles full of people, blow up things with people near them/in them as well as running cars/barricades that people occupy over.  It was mostly left to "Maybe they aren't dead"  I don't remember the scenes exactly but I remember thinking to myself  a lot "Holy zonks Batman, you just killed that guy!"

To be fair, Tim Burton's Batman sorta-kinda kills people in a similar did-I-see-that way.  Consider when he blows up the Joker's smilex factory.  Also, the fight at the end when he hits the guy's head on the bell and lets him fall.  We don't see him die, but that's not really a survivable situation.

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #31 on: August 13, 2016, 02:56:49 AM »
I seem to recall thinking the same thing about some *police* that got wrecked chasing Batman in one of the first two Nolan movies.
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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #32 on: August 13, 2016, 03:28:16 AM »
I seem to recall thinking the same thing about some *police* that got wrecked chasing Batman in one of the first two Nolan movies.

I think the Nolan movies did a very good job of defining that iteration of Batman independent of all others.  Nolan's Bruce Wayne doesn't have some specific aversion to killing in general.  Its very specifically shown in the first movie that Bruce Wayne is someone who believes the world is unjust and he wants to bring justice to it.  That doesn't mean no one can ever die.  That means he specifically cannot kill someone specifically to extract vengeance or as an expedient punishment.  In the same way that the police can't (or at least shouldn't) arbitrarily kill citizens but are explicitly allowed to use lethal force when necessary, I think Nolan's Batman believes it is not his place to dish out punishment.  He refuses to execute the man Ras Al Ghul presents to him.  But that's not because he refuses to kill.  It is because he refuses to be an executioner.  He does, in fact, turn right around and kill a lot of people when he burns the place down.  He did that in self defense and in pursuit of escaping and freeing (who he thought was) his friend.  That's justified in his mind: they were trying to kill him, and he had no choice but to defend himself.  Nolan's Bruce Wayne isn't a martyr.  He will kill in self defense.  He will kill when lethal force is used against him and he has no choice.  But when he has a choice, he feels he must try not to kill.  He must not kill just because it is easy, and not because he feels justified in being an executioner of criminals all on his own.

That Batman isn't a murderer.  But he isn't incapable of killing.  I think he makes that distinction.

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #33 on: August 13, 2016, 06:21:38 AM »
I don't mind Batman occasionally killing (or apparently/arguably killing) criminals - particularly if it's in a sort of indirect 80s action hero kinda way.  Public servants and innocent civilians, however, are casualties which are more likely to raise my brow.
When you insult someone by calling them a "pig" or a "dog" you aren't maligning pigs and dogs everywhere.  The same is true of any term used as an insult.

Taceus Jiwede

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #34 on: August 13, 2016, 07:28:21 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfH3bDPNGHw

Warning: Robot Chicken so you know... parental advisory etc etc.

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #35 on: August 14, 2016, 04:47:44 AM »
Just saw it. Were elements I liked, specifically that they got Waller right. Most of it was ok, but it felt like two movies to me. One was a Suicide Squad movie and one was a cliched Will Smith vehicle. All the cliched hero stuff near the end, right down to the brutally bad score just ruined it for me. And Joker was terrible.
Spoiler for Hidden:
Having Joker come to rescue Harley multiple times is a bad decision for both of their characters.

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #36 on: August 14, 2016, 04:51:53 AM »
While I mostly liked Waller, one scene seemed senselessly coldblooded...
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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #37 on: August 14, 2016, 05:03:59 AM »
I don't think you can have her too cold blooded.

Tenzhi

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #38 on: August 14, 2016, 05:09:57 AM »
But you can have her be too senseless.
When you insult someone by calling them a "pig" or a "dog" you aren't maligning pigs and dogs everywhere.  The same is true of any term used as an insult.

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #39 on: August 14, 2016, 10:27:28 PM »
I saw it yesterday. There was more I didn't like than did like. Hated this version of the Joker. Seemed like they took all these supervillains who could give the best heroes some trouble, and made them all tatted-up, bling-wearing, ghetto gangbangers. I'd take the Caesar Romero-Joker more seriously than the Jared Leto-Joker.

Arcana

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #40 on: August 15, 2016, 09:56:45 PM »
While I mostly liked Waller, one scene seemed senselessly coldblooded...

I did not like that scene, but mostly because it is inconsistent with my mental image of Waller.  I have to concede it wasn't at all inconsistent with the Waller portrayed in Suicide Squad.

But then I found the absolute last time you see Waller to be inconsistent if you buy into the icy-veined Waller.  That Waller seemed nervous almost to the point of being frightened about her circumstances at times, which seemed to me to be inconsistent with both my mental image of Waller and the Waller the movie itself built up.

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #41 on: August 15, 2016, 10:19:17 PM »
Yeah, I'll probably be stuck comparing every depiction of Waller I see with the one from JLU for the rest of my life.
When you insult someone by calling them a "pig" or a "dog" you aren't maligning pigs and dogs everywhere.  The same is true of any term used as an insult.

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #42 on: August 15, 2016, 11:01:49 PM »
Yeah, I'll probably be stuck comparing every depiction of Waller I see with the one from JLU for the rest of my life.

was it a jlu ep where she's dealing with Terry McGinnis bats in the future or a bats beyond? Whichever that one was is the gold standard. I thought this was about the closest they've come since to that, with Arrow's Waller being the low point. Smallville's was good, but more because it was pancake pancaking Pam Grier being P.P'ing Pam Grier than about anything specifically Waller. I might've just liked the Suicide Squad one so much because I still had a bad taste in my mouth from Arrow's.

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #43 on: August 15, 2016, 11:59:31 PM »
It was a JLU episode which served as an epic epilogue to the Batman Beyond series.  Just remembering it kinda makes me want to watch it again...
When you insult someone by calling them a "pig" or a "dog" you aren't maligning pigs and dogs everywhere.  The same is true of any term used as an insult.

Arcana

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #44 on: August 16, 2016, 12:39:50 AM »
It was a JLU episode which served as an epic epilogue to the Batman Beyond series.  Just remembering it kinda makes me want to watch it again...

It was the series finale of Justice League Unlimited called "Epilogue" that simultaneously served as a capstone to both Justice League Unlimited and Batman Beyond, and yep, I consider it the definitive Amanda Waller characterization myself.  Some say it is also the definitive Timverse Batman episode even though he's barely in it, and I can't argue with that either.

Taceus Jiwede

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #45 on: August 16, 2016, 08:45:34 PM »
It was a JLU episode which served as an epic epilogue to the Batman Beyond series.  Just remembering it kinda makes me want to watch it again...

I remember that episode I think, didn't Batman like shoot Terry's dad in the wang with a laser that made it so Batman could be Terry's real father?

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #46 on: August 16, 2016, 09:10:52 PM »
I remember that episode I think, didn't Batman like shoot Terry's dad in the wang with a laser that made it so Batman could be Terry's real father?

A closer approximation would be to say that Amanda Waller "shot Terry's dad in the wang", I believe. 
When you insult someone by calling them a "pig" or a "dog" you aren't maligning pigs and dogs everywhere.  The same is true of any term used as an insult.

Arcana

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #47 on: August 17, 2016, 12:10:16 AM »
I remember that episode I think, didn't Batman like shoot Terry's dad in the wang with a laser that made it so Batman could be Terry's real father?

I think the movies that play in your brain are more interesting than the ones that pass through your eyeballs.

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #48 on: August 17, 2016, 06:58:29 PM »
I think the movies that play in your brain are more interesting than the ones that pass through your eyeballs.

Aren't these still on Netflix? Maybe someone could check.

Vee

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #49 on: August 17, 2016, 07:59:05 PM »
Aren't these still on Netflix? Maybe someone could check.
i have the dvd within arms' reach and can't be bothered :P also i have no reason to doubt Arcana's eidetic memory since she's secretly Oracle.

Taceus Jiwede

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #50 on: August 18, 2016, 10:43:42 PM »
Aren't these still on Netflix? Maybe someone could check.

Wiki of future batman right here.  I know its wiki, but it's a TV show so I don't feel bad sourcing it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batman_(Terry_McGinnis)

A closer approximation would be to say that Amanda Waller "shot Terry's dad in the wang", I believe. 

Ya it was Amanda Waller.  And perhaps it didn't go QUITE down like I remembered lol.  But the concept is just as bizarre.  From the same Wiki.

Quote
"Later in his career as Batman, he has a confrontation with an elderly Amanda Waller, who reveals that she engineered his origin to create a replacement Batman for Bruce Wayne. McGinnis learns that Wayne is his biological father; Waller used nanotechnology to ensure that Bruce Wayne's DNA overwrote the DNA in Warren McGinnis's reproductive cells."

I think the movies that play in your brain are more interesting than the ones that pass through your eyeballs.

They really are :)

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #51 on: August 19, 2016, 01:26:31 AM »
None of that seems incompatible with wang lasering.

AmberOfDzu

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #52 on: August 19, 2016, 02:56:18 AM »
Alright lazy peoples, I found it in Netflix. It was a flu shot in the arm. "The father thought he was getting a flu shot. Actually, it was a nano-tech solution programmed to rewrite his reproductive material into an exact copy of Bruce Wayne's." So there; no wang lazering. 

Taceus Jiwede

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #53 on: August 19, 2016, 02:59:39 AM »
Haha, okay so maybe I was off a little more.  Flu shot, wang lasers.  Really who wouldn't make that mistake...............right?

I am really not sure how I ever came to that conclusion actually now.  I was being a little hyperbolic but I really did think it happened with some kind of like laser or something, I didn't think he literally shot him in the wang it was just an awesome way to phrase getting some ones DNA lasered into you.  But the fact it was a shot....man the years have not been kind to my memory.  I also didn't think it was as casual as just a shot.  Oh well, I still like my idea better. 

Vee

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #54 on: August 19, 2016, 03:18:56 AM »
Alright lazy peoples, I found it in Netflix. It was a flu shot in the arm. "The father thought he was getting a flu shot. Actually, it was a nano-tech solution programmed to rewrite his reproductive material into an exact copy of Bruce Wayne's." So there; no wang lazering.

So you're saying you don't think the nanobots had wang lasers? That sounds a bit far-fetched to me.

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #55 on: August 19, 2016, 03:41:22 AM »
So you're saying you don't think the nanobots had wang lasers? That sounds a bit far-fetched to me.

At least now we know there's at least one person waiting for that gritty reboot of Fantastic Voyage.

Vee

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #56 on: August 19, 2016, 04:06:30 AM »
At least now we know there's at least one person waiting for that gritty reboot of Fantastic Voyage.

I thought Innerspace was the gritty reboot of Fantastic Voyage.

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #57 on: August 19, 2016, 04:32:17 AM »
So you're saying you don't think the nanobots had wang lasers? That sounds a bit far-fetched to me.

That's what I'm saying, DNA Changing Flu Shot?  That's just ludicrous

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #58 on: August 20, 2016, 07:04:35 PM »
I'm bad and that's good.
I'll never be good and that's not bad.
There's no one I'd rather be than me.

...unless I could be Batman, of course. Everybody wants to be Batman.

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #59 on: August 20, 2016, 07:31:39 PM »
When you insult someone by calling them a "pig" or a "dog" you aren't maligning pigs and dogs everywhere.  The same is true of any term used as an insult.

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #60 on: August 20, 2016, 07:42:02 PM »
Thanks, never heard of him.
But shouldn't someone named Incubus be kinda...well, sexy? ;)
I'm bad and that's good.
I'll never be good and that's not bad.
There's no one I'd rather be than me.

...unless I could be Batman, of course. Everybody wants to be Batman.

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #61 on: August 20, 2016, 10:48:03 PM »
At least now we know there's at least one person waiting for that gritty reboot of Fantastic Voyage.
*hunts around for the "Like Post" button....*


The scene I found showed a bunch of nanobots swarming around a DNA helix after the flu-shot in the shoulder. It is eerily like a scene from Fantastic Voyage, including the scale-mismatch.

Arcana

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #62 on: August 23, 2016, 10:01:50 PM »
I think this does a really good job of describing why the Joker was such a strong villain in The Dark Knight in a way that the character was not in Suicide Squad (granted, the Joker was not as central to the story in SS).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFUKeD3FJm8

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #63 on: August 23, 2016, 11:10:34 PM »
I think this does a really good job of describing why the Joker was such a strong villain in The Dark Knight in a way that the character was not in Suicide Squad (granted, the Joker was not as central to the story in SS).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFUKeD3FJm8

That's very interesting... and deep. I stumbled a video that also does good job of describing why the Joker in Suicide Squad is not the best.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOdb1QoFAYM
« Last Edit: August 23, 2016, 11:24:16 PM by Dev7on »

Vee

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #64 on: August 29, 2016, 05:13:27 PM »
http://www.comicsbeat.com/deathstroke-ben-affleck-drops-a-cryptic-tease/


maybe it's just 'cause I'm playing Chroma Squad a lot lately, but this looks like if Deathstroke were about to fight the Power Rangers to me.

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #65 on: August 29, 2016, 06:05:56 PM »
For a guy with only one eye, Deathstroke really should be keeping his vision clear by not having a big bulky helmet that blocks some of his peripheral vision.

Also - total Arrow ripoff.

doc7924

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #66 on: May 25, 2018, 04:12:03 PM »
I know this is old but I just finally got to see this film.

Not bad at all.

Not a great film but had some interesting bits.

Robbie was of course great. She played Harley as if the animated version came to life.

I thought their version of the Joker was alright too. Something a little different then every other one.

I did like the JLA cameos for their respective villains.

Hopefully we get a second one but I wont hold my breath.



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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #67 on: May 26, 2018, 01:31:37 AM »
I know this is old but I just finally got to see this film.

Not bad at all.

Not a great film but had some interesting bits.

Robbie was of course great. She played Harley as if the animated version came to life.

I thought their version of the Joker was alright too. Something a little different then every other one.

I did like the JLA cameos for their respective villains.

Hopefully we get a second one but I wont hold my breath.

The only way she played Harley the animated version come to life is if you are talking about the versions of Harley that came after the movie and were based on her portrayal.  Sure she was good in the role but she in no way resembled the animated version of Harley.  And their version of the Joker was an abomination.

But different strokes and all that.

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #68 on: May 26, 2018, 10:58:40 AM »
The only way she played Harley the animated version come to life is if you are talking about the versions of Harley that came after the movie and were based on her portrayal.  Sure she was good in the role but she in no way resembled the animated version of Harley.  And their version of the Joker was an abomination.

But different strokes and all that.

Well unfortunately since this is now the DC movie universe we are stuck with both I guess.